RawPetMedics Tuesday Night Live: Guest Spot AMAYA ESPINDOLA

You need a joke? Well, the one that struck me, and it's kind of within the theme of—

Keep it clean now.

Well, it wasn't clean. That's why it's within the theme of the Raw Pet Medics. What would the shortening for guest spot be for tonight? I think it would be G-spot.

So that's—

That's keeping it clean.

Bloody hell.

Okay, okay, right, right. There we go. That's it.

It's gone.

We'll call it.

The best spot.

We're gonna hook him off sideways. It's that way. If I just sort of like do this, he's gone.

One of those.

We don't have any more G-spots. That's it, done. Oh my God.

Cheers everybody.

Yes, that's actually— that's wine. He's blowing on it, but it's wine.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah, me too.

We had a very good weekend.

Amazing, amazing.

Nick, go on, what did you get up to last week?

And, uh, okay, yeah, I've got some news. I've absolutely got some news. But just, just to say, just put things in context, tonight we're delighted and charmed and could not be happier to have Amaya, who is the incoming president for the Raw Feeding Veterinary Society, that august body to which we all aspire. And she is going to be the boss from tomorrow evening. So we're, we're really, really pleased. But Amaya, we're just going to ignore you for a minute or two, if that's okay. Yeah, because we, we've got, we've got, we've got important things like, like, so we, we went to the— so, so Brendan and I can listen.

Don't say anything because, uh, you will be back. Amaya, we're just gonna do this for a second.

Yeah. Okay, don't say, don't say anything rude. Whatever you do, don't say anything rude. So, so Bren and I went to the British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons over the weekend. So we had a fantastic, uh, weekend, and we were, you know, Brendan was working incredibly hard because he was doing all the electronics, and all the electronics all went wrong all weekend, and he kept his cool, and he was amazing. My news for this week is that I am writing lectures because I am presenting a day's summit on 5 topics in Istanbul in Turkey on Saturday, flying out on Friday, giving the talk on Saturday to vets and the public. Can't wait, they're a great bunch. And then I'm flying home again on, on Sunday, and I was delighted to be able to say that I have offset my miles. I was able to pay a few dollars and offset the 900 kilos of CO2. So I was able to do that. I feel a little bit better. I don't think it was tons. I think it was about 980 kilos of CO2.

Half a ton to France and back, and it's about a ton to Turkey and back, around those sorts of areas.

There you go. Okay, so that, that was it. How about you, Conor? What's, what's a little bit of news from you?

Oh, before you were speaking about Turkey, there was because I have, um, there was a second— I did a, you know, the way you do product consults with new companies, and I was talking to a Turkish guy, and lovely fella, and he was starting a new raw dog food company over there. Do you know how many raw dog food companies there are in Turkey? 10. And I thought, 10 raw dog food companies, that's not bad. I mean, obviously Turkey is way bigger than I thought it was, uh, when I had a look at it on the map. It is colossal, it's huge. I didn't realize. So I didn't actually check out the population, but 10 10 raw dog food companies. I thought that was pretty impressive. So, um, yeah, so that's— you're obviously going into a busy district, Nick, so that's good. Well done for spreading the word. That's going to go down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, really, really good.

What about you, Brian?

Anything going on?

Oh yeah, well, as Nick was saying, uh, we had the wonderful BAHVS, British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons, conference back down in Eastbourne, uh, last weekend. Uh, so that was a great gathering and We've got lots of new stuff from that, but something really interesting, this guy down there, Mark Elliott, I'll give you a shout out because he keeps getting annoyed on Tuesday nights when we keep popping up on his Facebook timeline. Hi, Mark. And just talking about the level of bird flu, and somebody pointed out, you know, we were talking about novel proteins last week and, you know, considerations to have with raw food feeding, and we touched on game birds and keeping costs low and things like that. It is in a bit of a crisis over this next year, you know, there, there are even possibilities of a fallow year, i.e., having to lay off for a full year, and there's going to be some fairly major impacts. So if your dogs and cats are on a poultry or bird protein and you've been sort of stuck to that because of other issues, I would suggest that you start looking around for some other alternatives as well at this point, because they are probably not only going to be in short supply but going to shoot up. And I think this is pretty much across Europe now. Fortunately, if you're elsewhere in the world, you may be lucky, but so much of this is getting carried around the world on migrating birds that actually this is a real pandemic. This is not just something for the UK, although it's devastating our wild bird population at the moment. I mean, we're seeing wild birds dropping out the skies almost. That's how bad it is at the moment. Migration is really going to be hitting them hard as well. So, yeah, devastating. Devastating. But guys, think hard if you are on that one side of things looking at poultry, please do start to spread the net and consider some other predators.

So this would be, this is very interesting because a couple of days ago I went up to my chicken dealer and I said, have you got my chicken? And she said, well, I have to move all the chickens indoors. And she doesn't really, she's not really kitted out that way, you know, it's only 1,000 birds. And she goes, so she has to move her chickens indoors. Anybody with 10 birds or more is getting a phone call from the Department of Agriculture So any outdoor weird poetry is now going to be indoor, and that's just the way it has to be done for 2 weeks, although we've heard that 2 weeks before. So, but she was saying that, um, she was showing me pictures of stories in the newspapers of wild birds turning up in playgrounds and stuff on the coast here in Dublin and Malahoy, 2 wild birds that people wouldn't have seen too many of, you know, they're slightly different looking birds, whether they were gannets or something else. But, uh, so listen, I'm assuming what you're saying, Bren, is to do with outdoor-reared birds. Are the mega farm internally-reared birds affected by this?

They are, absolutely, because they're not doing, you know, the stuff we talked about— fogging for biosecurity and all of that side of things. That's not just not happening, it's not on the big players' list at the moment. And there, you know, as soon as there is bird flu recognized within the area they usually ring exterminate birds. So you'll have neighbouring farms losing their flocks and being tested and that side of things. So you will end up with, you know, they've got to try and cull it out, but they've lost it. It's already a pandemic of epic proportions in the sense that it's absolutely everywhere in the wild bird population. Yeah, there is no realistic way of getting pasturared birds at this point in time, I don't think. I think there's just too much risk, and it's gone from being just isolated hotspots through the summertime to literally totally around the country. You know, anywhere is pretty much get them indoors, try and stop them from having access to wild birds, and hopefully restrict the spread.

But look, is there something to do with the coronavirus that affected the humans that jumped into dogs and weasels and all sorts of animals. This didn't jump into birds as well, did it?

No, this is the influenza. So this is the H2N1.

Is it?

Yeah.

Is that not the last one?

H2N1?

No, it's another variant.

Yeah, a variant of that.

N5?

It's an influenza, not a corona.

Okay.

Anyway.

Okay.

Right. That's enough of bad news. We're going to get on with some fun stuff.

Before we introduce Amaya, just scrolling across the bottom, you're going to see patreon.com/rogermuller. All pet medics. Thanks very much everybody as usual for their donations there, really helps keep the lights on and we deeply, deeply appreciate your price of a cup of tea or even a pint sometimes. That every month really, really helps. If you can do it, great. If you can't, we totally understand, it's going to be a lean winter. So that's where you'll find us anyway on Patreon and we try to add content to that as much as we can, such as our bit on the side.

And Carol, I love you. Yeah, that one Just so that H5N1. Okay. You know, sometimes I get a bit dyslexic in all the excitement.

And also the podcast.

Let's not forget the podcast because otherwise Pete will have a hissy fit. Guys, you can get us on podcasts. There must be half a dozen or more of your most favorite podcast medium. Apple Music, Spotify, and Amazon Live and all that stuff. So if you want to take us with you, then you're all good. We've got Amaya, which is most important.

Oh, do we have to bring her back?

Sorry, Amaya not being brought on.

Oh, we should have a little fanfare.

Hi again, Amaya. Last time we met was in Barcelona. That was great crack, wasn't it?

Yeah, it was really, really good.

I loved your talk.

Your talk was so good, Amaya. It was so Interesting. We're going to get to that. Does somebody— do you want to tell us a bit about yourself, Amaya? Where you're from and what your favorite bits to do are?

Okay, well, I'm just kidding. My name is Amaya Spidola, and what I do is, well, I dedicated my life to cats and music, basically. That's my—

cats and music.

Exactly. So I'm from Argentina, but I've been living in Madrid for 9 years and now I decided that I needed the beach and I came to Mallorca. So here I am.

I love Mallorca.

Yeah. And it's a wonderful place. I'm actually in the middle of the island, but I can reach all, all places at the same time, you know, anytime.

I love it.

In the mountains. So it's really, really good, very calm. And I needed that. So I'm doing, I'm going to start doing music. I'm preparing the London Vet Show and, you know, fun things.

Amaya, would it be okay if about 350 RPM devotees and us turned up at your place next weekend? Would that be okay?

Just anytime you want.

Okay, great. Okay guys, you heard it here. You get that?

Get that Twister mat out.

Let me, let me tell you something. Let's wait until I get my own flat because I rented a room to find a better place to live in. So, yeah.

Okay. We won't all stay in your room.

We can party all night if you want.

There's a beautiful beach in, in Mallorca called Lombardi. Have you been there yet?

No. Uh, no, not that one. I haven't been to that one.

Cala d'Or is there. Cala Igos below it. And then Lombardi.

Oh, I've been to Cala d'Or. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But the, the, this Lombardi is these huge cliffs along the outside. Side of it, and it's just this beautiful turquoise water. And you can just— when you stand on top of the cliffs, you can look down, you can see the bottom and the fish swimming around, and you can jump down in. Oh, I have to go there. Oh, it's beautiful. It's such a— I've been there 3 times. I just absolutely adore. Really remote. It's nice.

But, uh, I'm actually thinking that all these people are, are not coming to visit me, you know.

Briefly, briefly.

I'm looking at this like, I'm booked.

Okay, thanks.

I know, I feel the love. I feel the love, guys.

What music do you play, Amaya? What sort of music are you into?

Well, mostly I do country and folk music, and I have my own songs, and I do Dolly Parton, John Baez, and Janis Joplin kind of music.

Oh, wow.

Can you give us a little blast of Stand By Your Man?

I don't know, instruments. That's what it is.

We will, we will share. Have you got anything up online, Amaya, that we can share? Have you got it? Did you ever put it?

Yes, I do have a Spotify channel.

Oh yeah?

Oh lovely.

Yeah, let us share, let us share that out.

People can have a listen. Okay, I can send, uh, we'll do it later.

We can do it after the show.

Yeah, yeah, we can.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Have you got, I've got handle for Spotify?

Well, actually, my— it's through Rego Music because they, you know, they distribute the music. I just give the songs to them, they approve it, and they just put it there. I don't deal with Spotify because you have to pay if you're just trying to get there.

So how do people find you, Amaya? How do people find you on Spotify?

I'm gonna share it now, Nick.

Okay.

Okay, nice one. That's cool.

Okay, so what's your day job, Amaya? What do you do when you're not singing away?

Well, I wish I would sing every day, you know, but that's not an easy job to have. But during the day, I work with cats and I deal with cats. This, you know, cats are complicated, cats are hard, whatever those things. So my job is basically support people into nutritional or behavioral and health. So I just, most of the time I have to support people to get through something with their cats, you know. So, and if they have a behavioral issue, there's always something related to nutrition and vice versa. So I usually have to address both. So the way I decided to do it is to have a consultation and then a support kind of messaging or whatever you need during the month. So that's kind of my service. It's not just a consultation because, you know, cats are cats.

Yeah.

And we need to understand them a little better.

Yeah. No animal can be fixed in one single meeting. I mean, the poor conventional vets that are doing 10-minute, 15-minute glances at your health. I mean, or human doctors. I mean, that's impossible for that poor doctor. Imagine how difficult it would be to— so I mean, I totally understand what to follow. Is there any such thing as cat trainers? Do people call cat trainers, or are you trying to fulfill a role to balance all the bits and pieces? I mean, do you see a mental health issue with the cat as opposed to a physical issue? And, you know, do you find yourself doing training with the person? Is that what you find yourself in that realm, or is there actually cat trainers? And, you know, I've never heard of a cat trainer.

Well, no, it's not. I don't think the word trainer, they use therapists, you know, cat therapist. That's the most common word. But the thing for me is that if you want to address a cat behavior, you have to address the human behavior because cats don't go outside usually, at least here in Spain. So, you know, they are always in relation with that human, with that environment. There are four walls all the time. So, they don't get the chance to go outside and release that energy like dogs might have. And once the human changes their routine, the cats always have an improvement in their behavior. And this can be, actually I'm doing my own research with my clients about how transition is affected because of this, because the cats don't feel safe where they are eating or maybe the energy that the person has, you know, the human has, can affect the way the cat is eating or not eating this new food or this neophobia that cats have. I think the neophobia comes mainly because humans.

Give me an example of how you can kind of set the wrong tone for the cat. Give me an example of that.

Okay, for example, people live in a rush. That's the easiest one. People live in a rush, so they just feed the cat and run away, and, you know, they're they move around the house really fast and they don't realize that the cat— maybe you put the food bowl into the hallway and you walk around the house all the time and you don't— you're not paying attention to what the cat is doing or if it feels safe or not. So the cat won't eat that food, maybe. Another example could be that you are staying staring and waiting for the cat to eat something like, oh, come on, just eat it. So you're pressuring the cat and the cat is like, And then, and then you have this particular clients that, well, I love them because I do have patience, um, is that they, they are trauma, they have trauma themselves with, with nutrition. So when you're telling them that, for example, uh, you have to, um, I don't know, change the routine or maybe add a different food before they try it, they are already saying, I cannot do that.

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Wow.

So it's like, okay, let's work with you first and then we can talk about the cat. Yeah.

And Amaya, Amaya, what's the most common thing that you come across in your work as a, as a cat specialist, as a vet, as a nutritionist? What's the most common one or two situations that you that you see?

Well, there are two different situations. One is behavioral. It's aggressive and peeing outside the litter box. That's like the biggest. And then from the health perspective, it's kidney disease and IBD. That's like, okay, every day, every single day.

Why?

Have you got some top tips, top tips for the, the aggressive and top tips for the kidney and IBD. Just people like something to—

Okay, I've got a top tip while she's thinking.

Okay, go on then.

Watch Feline Fridays, you know. Oh yeah, and then you'll get some of the top—

Yeah, that's for the kidney. Thank you, Brendan. That's for the kidney. Yeah, there's a lot of tips there.

Um, but about every Friday, I have to just say, is it every Friday that you do it, or is it one, one Friday a month? One, just for those who don't know.

You can tell how much she actually pays attention, can't you?

I knew the answer. I knew the answer to that. I knew the answer to that.

Oh my God.

Once a month. And when do you do it? I'm just trying to plug your, your spot.

Okay, uh, we are having one this Friday.

This Friday. Okay, great. There you go.

You see, on kidneys advertising marketing scheme.

That's good.

Thyroid.

Thyroid. Thyroid.

Okay. And so go on, go on. Your tips, kidney disease. Tell us about the tips for kidney disease and IBD. And why do cats suffer so much kidney disease? Why would Mother Nature build them like that?

Food mainly is the problem. And yeah. I mean, there are many reasons, but I haven't found many behavioral issues related to kidney disease. So mostly it's due to metabolism issues or something, you know, the digestive issues, or maybe gingivitis, or, you know, there are many things that can cause inflammation to the kidney. But one of the things that I find most often is that the diagnosis is really, really bad.

Okay.

I get blood tests that, you know, they weren't fast. The cats were just needed. So they tell you, oh, the urea levels are high.

Yeah, sure.

And then you get, they never ask for what they are eating. They just look at the creatinine levels and that's it. They forget about urine, they forget about ultrasound, they forget about everything. So they don't make a good assessment for the kidney. And they just tell you to start with this kibble, the kidney support or whatever. And the thing is that they try that and the cat won't eat it. The cat's smart and won't eat it. So then they call you because, oh, I need to change the food and I don't know what to do. So then I have to start over and do the whole diagnosis again and then restart trying to make sure that they will eat this new food. So it's kind of a challenge for that. And yes, and I use different therapies depending on which cat it is. And mostly I don't look only the kidney. I work with the intestinal level in every, in every way, because for me the digestive system is kind of the control center for everything else. So most of the time I find that the cats are constipated, they vomit a lot, so if you don't help with that, the transition is going to be even harder. So I look into that, I look into symptoms and try to work with that.

And what sort of food do you end up on, Maya? Where do you go to? What's your go-to type of food? Are we talking about a product? Are we talking about DIY? Are we talking about fresh? What sort of food? Cooked? What do you move cats to? What do you gravitate to to fix these things?

I usually go to raw if I can. I avoid to use canned food if I can. I don't like canned food if they are having kidney issues or thyroid issues or even some digestive issues. Sometimes I don't have a choice, but if I do, I try to go for DIY or maybe a product, and I try to switch to raw. And once they are into raw, maybe I adjust and, and adjust it to kidney if necessary. But my main goal, I always tell people that don't start with a whole bunch of supplements because your cat is transitioning to something new. So what damage are you going to do in, in a period of time without that supplement and supplementation that, well, they might need. But if they don't eat this food, they need to eat the food first, and then we can add and make adjustments, right? So I try to go slowly.

That's nice. Amaya, what does your ideal raw food diet look like? Can you just take us through that?

Ideal?

Hmm.

Yeah, for a healthy cat.

Yeah.

And then you can say how you tweak that for IBD, maybe how you tweak it for kidney, if that's— if I can ask you 3 questions at once. So ideal, maybe I need a reminder later, but yeah, no worries, we can do that. Yeah, yeah. So your ideal, ideal healthy cat, ideal, uh, ideal would be to—

the cats eat mice and pigeons and birds, you know, that would be the ideal thing. Yeah, the thing is that most people don't like it. Even I don't like it. I've been— uh, somebody, um, I think she's a supporter for RVS, and she sent me a video of her, uh, cattery and all the, the small kittens eating, uh, the, the pigeons that are left behind. You know, in the process, uh, poultry process.

Yeah.

And, uh, and the, and the mother of the cats just took one, just put it over on the bed, and the cats, 6 weeks old, they were eating like that. It was so amazing to watch.

Yeah.

But it was at the beginning, I was like, what is that? Oh my God. No, that's okay. They are cats. They are cats. Remember that they're cats. So that would be the ideal diet. So when you try to fix that, I don't usually go only to poultry because people have this idea that poultry or fish are the most common things for cats. And what I tell people is, have you seen a cat swimming to fish, fishing? You know, go fishing. And then the poultry, have you seen chickens, I mean big chickens, with cats. There are videos, they're very fun. And you know, the chickens win. They cannot— so I don't see a cat actually beating a chicken. Wow, no way.

I'm surprised.

I have seen what chickens can eat. I mean, you know, they will take full rats in, you know, and take them down. It's just like, oh my God, you know, they are just Oh, they are little raptors, just, you know, with feathers on and shrunk over.

Exactly.

They really are. I saw a video of a chicken being attacked by a rat, and then all the other chickens came in and ate the rat, and it was just, uh, it was pretty. And they're so noisy and flappy when they're doing it. Like, I'd be terrified to be attacked by a chicken.

I remember, actually, the pets is the same thing. Yeah, I've seen a cat attacking one chicken, and then like 3 or 4 came up And the cat was like, okay, okay, all right, lads, all right, relax, let's just have a nibble.

Does the cat eat the entire— what part? Like, I see a dog as kind of a whole prey eater, okay? I don't know about a pigeon, they'd probably leave a good bit of that there, I imagine. A lot of feathers on that. But what does a cat eat of a rat, say? Do cats eat the whole animal? I see a lot of waste when a cat is eating. What do they eat?

Well, I had, well, I actually experienced what the cat eat because my first job, it was a kind of a rural practice, you know, so they sold seeds and other things. So rats were a common thing. And we have like 2 cats that ate everything around the rats. And I saw that, you know, they leave the tail And sometimes the head, but sometimes they eat it all.

Wow. Okay.

It depends on the size of the, and how hungry they are because they had access to other foods.

Okay.

So if they weren't hungry, they would just leave the nasty bits, I think. The tail.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

But they eat the whole thing. I mean, the fur and everything.

Just to jump in for one second. There's something's coming in there, which none of us are happy with. Bren, is there anything you can do with that?

No, that's purely YouTube. Don't worry, don't worry.

Okay, there's nothing you can do. Okay, so how do you tweak this diet that you make? So if we can't go full prey model, is what they would be the term they'd use for what you described, as in chicks and mice and rats and whatever, what's your next— what's the next level down? How do you recommend for the average cat Well, whatever.

I mean, this, this is whatever you can feed them because, um, for example, I have one cat that actually likes the prey model and the other one is like, what do you expect me to do with this? Like, I'm not eating this. So, uh, for those, it's a very grounded meat with bones and everything. And, uh, usually I try to do the ratio thing. That's not for healthy cats. I I tend to go to ratios and that's it. And variety, a lot of variety because you won't get from poultry or what other, turkey or quail, you don't get enough anything. So I try to get variety and most of the times I even, because in my experience, taurine is something that I always have to put Taurine is the supplement, and it's a supplement that it's easy to administer. It's not difficult that cats accept taurine. And then if I have to use another one, I would say brewer's yeast as a taste enhancer. Yeah, that would be my favorite. And then the difficulty sometimes I find is that to add omega-3s because some cats don't like oils. Or even if it's fish oil. I found a new kind of fish oil, krill, krill that comes like dry krill.

Yeah.

And I need to find— I need to call this producer to see if I can have some and try that because that would be easier. So that's the, like, the biggest things I use. But it depends. I try not to put any carbonates, calcium carbonate, anywhere if I can. If they have enough bone, that's okay. For me, that's okay.

What sort of bone can a cat eat?

Well, I would say chicken wings, that's a quail, for example. That's the most common ones. I've tried with a little bigger bones like chicken necks or turkey necks, and they're kind of big, you know. I have to cut them a little bit in small pieces to get them biting. So chicken wings would be my favorite.

Okay, so for me, the million-dollar question is transition. Okay, everybody wants— everybody who's on here would want their cat to eat raw. And before you see the light, they're on kitty cat or, you know, whatever it might be, or kibble or what have you. How do you take cats from the dark side into the light?

Okay, the first thing that is going to surprise you, because if you want to look into transition, we have a whole Feline Friday for that. But the thing is that what I look into is behavior. That's the main thing I look. So the first thing you have to do is take a look on your cat's routine. What does he do? How does he approach food? What is that? How they— do they smell the food a lot? Do they go around the food before eating? Do they like the food in a certain place? Do they have to ask for their food? Because I just had a conversation with the one you sent me, Nick, the one from India. She said that her cat, for example, scream at her at 7 PM. And I said, the cat is asking for the food and that shouldn't happen. You know, they are demanding the food. So that means that they always eat with a lot of hunger. And that's not good in a routine in an indoor cat. So you have different ways to find out. What does your cat do? You know, if you pet them, do they bite you instantly or do they, you know, they really like to be petted? Do they anxiously, you know, stay up here to your face and they don't allow you to sleep? All those details can tell you how they eat and how you can start thinking into transition.

Oh, that's interesting.

That's what I'm investigating now.

Yeah, I love it. And is there a pattern? Is there a pattern to that sort of behavior? Like a cat that doesn't— you see these videos like of, you know, I remember one recently of a 16-year-old girl and the video's title was 'My Cat Hates Me' and it's a minute video of a cat just attacking her and it's kind of funny, you know, it's 50, 60 different— now I'm sure if cat behaviorists were looking at that they'd go, 'That's an unhappy cat' and all the rest, but for someone that doesn't know jack about cats, it's funny to see this person getting attacked by a cat. So what is it that— is that that some cats just don't want to be touched or is there something, is there an issue going on because most cats would tolerate a bit of touch if it was okay. Like, a dog might have a bad back, he doesn't want to be touched, you know. So what is it about that cat that he does that, or are just all cats different?

Uh, well, all cats are different, and all cats have this, this different sort of sensitivity in their skin. So that's one of the things you should consider. That's Harry. Oh, he's so good.

He wouldn't attack anybody.

No, he does.

Um, Except the nurses who play rough with him.

That's the thing, you said it, is the way if you play with a cat with your hands or you become an unpredictable person. Cats need to understand that you are predictable, where, how you put your hand, where you put your hand, or how you approach the cat. For example, my cat that is sleeping right down here, he has hyperesthesia, and so I always have to be at the same level with him. I have to talk to him before touching him.

So what is that for the listeners and me?

It's the Ripley skin syndrome. It's kind of a high sensitivity to pain in their skin and the skin moves alone. Yeah.

So sensitive, they just hyper-respond. So you just can just faintly touch them and they might jump out of their skin.

It's like, yeah, and they, and they think they are being attacked. My cat also thinks, you know, they hallucinate in a way that he's being attacked. Uh, so sometimes he's still, he's sitting, and all his skin starts to move like that. Yeah. And, and he gets nervous, like, what's going on? He doesn't understand. So if you pet him— he was an aggressive cat in a way because of that. That's, yeah, one of the things.

That's really interesting because, uh, there was one of the presentations, and I think it was a presentation by Tim Cousins, he was talking about mushrooms and slightly off-the-wall remedies. And one of the remedies he said, and I think it was a mushroom because of this hyperesthesia, you know, just reacting to the world. And he was saying that it's a very good remedy for hyperesthesia. So I think it's probably a great idea to have a little chat with Brendan on Friday perhaps about hyperesthesia, because yeah, we can add a great idea. Yeah, I mean, evolutionarily you can't jump out of your skin.

Do dogs, do dogs suffer this, or is this a, or is this a cat, more, more of a cat thing?

Yeah, they do. Well, I don't know, I've seen it, I've seen dogs with it, and there's, but, uh, certainly some Border Terriers as well, um, and you can even get like, uh Dyskinesias as well that can occur in a similar way. So yeah, loads of neurological issues along those lines.

But is it true?

It is relatively rare in dogs though, whereas with cats I think it's relatively common.

That's interesting. Is it true, Moira, that all ginger cats are males or possibly females, and why is that?

Well, that's a kind of a genetic thing. Um, I, I don't really know the, the really bitty thing, but the thing is that, uh, for example, the tortoise, uh, they have this genetic kind of, uh, yeah, the tortoise shell, the tortoise shell cats are female.

Yeah, the color gene is sex-linked, so therefore in order for them to be tortoiseshell, they have to be female unless they have a genetic fault with an extra chromosome. Uh, and that's a very rare—

and, and it's trans cats.

Okay.

Yeah. And it's a sterile male in that case. And like most gingers—

sorry.

Yeah, no, the ginger is attached to the male, so it's mostly male. But the, the things that, that you can find ginger females as well.

Yeah, okay, interesting. I like that. I saw those in part of, as I was researching back in the day for the book and looking back on why you can train dogs to eat funny items, and that if you train— if you feed a dog vegetables as a pup, they'll grow up eating vegetables. If you feed them meat and bone, they'll grow up feeding meat and bone. And you can do the same with cats. So there's YouTube videos of cats eating pieces of broccoli like they're eating lemons, you know, and chewing through broccoli with these incredible teeth. And the vegetarian debate rolls on. I'm sure there's vegetarian cat food now, which would just make me, you know— but that— so that there's an imprinting period in kittens' lives as well for food. So because wild cats, you know, feral domestic cats do not eat vegetables at all, not a single scrap goes in, bar maybe a tiny splash of stomach contents. But So is that the same with behavior in cats then as well? Do cats, same as dogs, they have this imprinting period? They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Is it really important in your kitten's life that you get your training done? For dogs, we say it's up to about 4 or 5 months, whatever, maybe it's moved on. Is it the same with a cat? Do you have to kind of teach a cat everything they kind of need to know in that early first stage of life? Is that a critical learning period for cats, the same as dogs?

Well, I think it's similar. I don't know exactly how it is in dogs, but for example, in cats, they have this period of time where they don't feel, or they don't get stressed by something. That's like 2 weeks or maybe less. I don't remember exactly, but they have this period of time that, you know, they can be moved by its mother or from one side to the other, and they won't react to that. That won't cause any adrenaline or cortisol effect. Because they are like numbed because of the oxytocin of the mother, right? So that's the period of time that they like happy moving around. Kidding. And then the mother teach them everything they need to know. So they teach them how to hunt, how to eat. So I think it is a very, they have this kind of period that they need to learn how to do things. And if they lack of that, you have to make a bigger effort to try to teach them how to. But I think cats, they have a different perspective of the world. They usually look at things with a different perspective. Even in the same litter, you can have different cats, different personalities due to this. And then once they grow up, they are always experimenting and they're very curious and they can relearn things. So I've seen, for at least for the experience, for the people that I know from dogs, dog trainers, I don't know, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but they found that it's hard sometimes to fix a trauma with a dog, but it's easier to actually fix a trauma with a cat. Because cats are very curious and they are always in the present. And they're always, so once you switch a little bit, you switch the energy of the of the environment, you start a new routine and you start doing things, it might take time, but the cats will always learn. As well, for what I heard about dogs, it's not always that easy, for example. And then if most of the cats are rescue cats, don't have this imprinting learning period, you know, they haven't learned with their mother, and those cats, or maybe if they were born, I don't know, and then left behind by their mother and some human took care of them. Those are the worst because we don't know how to be actually cat mothers or fathers. So we teach them wrong things and they are really, you know, they usually are the ones with the most behavioral issues. So I do believe that they have this learning period that it's very important, this social period that is very important. And the stress management as well.

Amazing. Amaya, there are so many very subtle differences between dogs and cats, and yet they are so, so, so different. Yeah, they're subtle, and yet they're so enormous differences. It's amazing. Just in the last couple of minutes, is there anything that you'd really like to highlight to people who have cats or perhaps people who are thinking about getting cats from a nutrition or a behavioral point of view?

Okay, there are some tips that I always like to give. The first one, don't get a cat with your mind. For example, people say, oh, I want a kitty just so I can educate. No, you're going to be a terrible mother. Please don't do that. It's best to actually, if you're, if you know how, you know, very experienced with cats and stuff, well, you can try with a kitten, but the kitten needs to be all the time near you. It's like you have to have it all the time near a blood vessel around so they can feel your heartbeat, and they have to be there with you 24/7. So can you do that? I can't. So maybe some, some people can, and I won't I wouldn't have a kitten if I can. So I would adopt always adult cats. I will try to do that first because you see what you get and then you can retrain. You can teach them to do new things. Like for example, my cat who's now sleeping, he doesn't bite. He's really nice. But he started with me like really nobody liked him. Nobody wanted him. He's a black cat and aggressive, you know? And then about food is, of course, just, you know, they're carnivores. They should be eating meat always. There's no excuse for kibble. Actually, kibble for cats shouldn't exist. Yes.

Don't quote me on that.

Yeah, maybe, I don't know, you can try DIY, you can cook it, you can do whatever you want. Just give them protein and that's it. And then if you have a cat with aggressive behavior, make sure to go to therapy. That's one of the things that I always want to highlight because it seems like it's nothing, but you're going to have this fear inside that you're always going to react and this is going to provoke and increase the behavior, the aggressive behavior. So you need someone to help you address that.

So Amaya, you're saying if your cat has problems, you personally should go to therapy?

If you've been attacked by a cat, yes, you should.

Okay, okay, that's amazing. I'm going to stop you there. I'm just going to say, how can people get in touch with you? This is fantastic information. How can they get in touch?

Well, they can get in touch by, well, at felvet.net is my website. Then you can, my English Instagram is Felvet for Cats. Or Felvet.cat, whatever is the Spanish one. And then my email is info@felvet.net.

That's Felvet, F-E-L-V-E-T, like feline.

Feline veterinarian.

I love your logo. It's so simple. The little cat tail hanging off the V, is it? It's just, it's, yeah. I was looking for your number earlier on from Barcelona to talk to you about Pete. And I was looking through it and I saw your logo and I thought, oh, I really like that.

It's so Well, it's my guitarist.

It's your what?

It's the designer of the logo.

Oh, okay.

I knew that was her.

Yeah, the place guitar. Yeah, cool. I love it. As we, as us three struggle with a new logo, we do appreciate a good one. Maya, would you hang around for 10 more minutes just so we can do this bit on the side that we do for Patreon? Guys, are you okay to do that? I'd love to chat a bit about your talk that you did in Barcelona and about the parasite.

And also the future of RFVS. And there's a— we've just shared the Facebook group there, which is RFVS. You'll see Amaya on that. We're going to talk a bit more about that on the bit on the side. So you guys can join us over on Patreon, the thing below. Before we go, here you go, guys. I'm just going to play this. You wanted to hear a little bit of Amaya singing live.

It says it's you.

It says it's you. It's like, oh, it's like, whoo! I was like, really?

That was false.

No, that's— no, it says— it says no, but yeah, that's the picture of me. You play that? That's me. Yeah.

Is this your playlist? Is this your radio?

Yeah, but yeah, but the thing is that, do you have, um You have Spotify Premium?

Is it that one?

Yeah, that's me.

Is that not your song?

Yeah, this is not my song.

That's not you, you're just playing other people's music.

Yeah. No, no, no, I don't— I have my music. Hold on, if I can— well, I can actually sing for you.

Let's do it on Patreon, guys.

Oh, go on! Oh no, she's gonna sing for for us. This is great, guys. You've got to join us on Patreon. We're gonna have it live.

Give us a little tune. That would be really, really great. Okay, okay. So I'm gonna say good night. Gonna say a thousand thanks to Amaya. This is fascinating. Good luck with your tenure with the Raw Feeding Veterinary Society. You're going to be a great president. Yeah, you're going to bring a lot of— you're going to bring a lot of light and a lot of joy to Raw Feeding Veterinary Society. And so we want to really, really thank you for that. But we're going to just jump over onto Patreon so that we can pick your brains a little further and hear you singing.

All right, guys.

Oh, you talk to you all next week.

See you later.

Okay, talk to you all next week. See ya. Okay, bye-bye.