RawSafe Tuesday night live: Oral lumps

Evening.

Oh, welcome, welcome. We're here keeping you guessing.

Tuesday, it's 2 minutes past. That is purely my fault. I was, I was messing about with an SD card because Pete, our very, very fussy sound guy for the podcast, he's, he's forever saying, tweaking things. But I think he's almost there, and if I didn't record it on my special recorder, he would have a fit. So this is for you, Pete. There you go.

Bren, we love you. Oh yes, just, um, I've been to BVA, um, live last week. So that's a British Veterinary Association conference. Um, just, uh, yeah, going around doing so much, meeting people that see us on the podcast even at BVA. It's marvelous. It's hilarious, the fact that, you know, vets and nurses— well, it was quite quiet, to be fair, but it's great that we see people. We've got a wonderful student who's staying with us at the moment seeing practice, Rachel High. She's from Bristol University and she's really enjoying this. She's a raw food feeder. With German Shepherds. So she's enjoying just seeing a holistic view, I think. So hi if you're watching. But no, it's been great. And you— and actually, I met a client in my surgery just the other day who saw you. Where were you, Nick? Go on, what were you doing at the weekend?

Last weekend I was in London at the at a show called the Pet Health Show, I think. And did she come? She came to the, the event. Oh, brilliant. I thought— I really enjoyed it, I think. And not many people fell asleep, so I thought, yeah, it was fun. It was really fun. Yeah, really, really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, definitely.

Oh, great.

So, um, I've got loads of things to talk about before we jump in, but again, Pete said make sure that you mention verbally, because we normally say join, have a look at Patreon. So I just want to say thank you very much to all our Patreon supporters, those people who donate the price of a cup of coffee once a month to help us keep the show on the road. And I have just become— actually, no, he said make sure that you mention patreon.com/rawpetmedics. Patreon. Rawpetmedics.com/rawpetmedics. And if you want to just give us a tiny little bit of spondulics to keep the show on the road, we'd be very grateful indeed. So there you go, Pete, that was for you. Um, what was I going to say?

So whilst you're going to say something, I'm going to say, yeah, Conor Brady has, uh, very graciously ducked out tonight. Um, he, he's, he's really, really apologetic, okay? Um, uh, he's, uh, ongoing rocker, I believe, um, and he's, he's had an offer of a certain concert. Um, he may be wearing, uh, some attire from— well, he wants to say the '90s, but I think it was, uh, we were back in the '80s, weren't we, when these rock groups were around.

I think so, yeah. Have you got a picture? Have you got a picture?

I wish I did, but unfortunately it's, um, the, the spy cam that was out there has not uploaded, uh, nicely to this, this particular, um, shot, so I'm not going to show it. I mean, it might have scared some of the ladies in the room out of their park, but you know, he's living on a prayer. And, you know, I think there's— and that's probably why we can't show the picture.

And the guy's name rhymes with Con, as in Conor. So Con, and then it's a double-barreled, and the last word is Jovi.

Do you want to be a bit more specific? Because I don't think these guys have got it.

Anyway, so that's where he's gone. He's gone to the Jon Bon Jovi concert, and, um, because he prefers him to us, so we're a little bit affronted, but, but there we go. Yeah, yeah. Um, no, I've got, I've got loads of little— sorry, sorry, I think that would be so unkind to him.

He's, he's said that actually he thinks it's far better than that. He's gone to see Guns N' Roses, uh, but we think that was just a cover. Um, but anyway, we know what you're really up to, Conor.

Yeah, we've been teasing him mercilessly for about the last 5 days since he said, lads, I can't do it because I've got— I'm going to Guns N' Roses. And so I said, oh yeah, Conor, it's okay, you can, you can share that you're actually going to Jon Bon Jovi. And he wasn't very happy with that, and so we went right in for the kill every day, every day. So Fantastic.

But in apology, he is doing something very special for all of you guys who have joined us on Patreon at Raw Pet Medics. Uh, then there is a code to see a special video course, uh, this week for 7 days. Uh, so if you want to be a patron and want to pop on tomorrow for 7 days, he will be revealing a code. I hope it's just a code and not revealing anything else after his night out with short shorts. And denim. But anyway, the— but it's a code, and through that you're able to see a free course which otherwise would cost you a lot of money, I'm assured. But anyway, that's, that's from Conor. That's all we need to say about the man who's not here. And so we should crack on. Go on, you've got some other things.

I've got something. I'm so, so excited. It's this— continuing with the whole regen thing. And guys, please tell me when you get bored of me waffling on about regenerative agriculture. But until that time, I'm going to tell you about some stuff. So I am obsessed with listening to Charlie Arnott, his podcast. It's called The Regenerative Journey. I'm finding it absolutely fascinating. Really, really, really is a very special thing. And on that, he recommends a book. Sorry guys, Karen is probably going to be falling over as we, as we speak.

Another book, yeah.

Is that, is that the right way around?

So, Call of the Reed Warbler by Charles Massey.

It's all about regenerative agriculture and it's just the most positive heartwarming, reassuring book I've read. I'm actually reading black and white, uh, text, um, because I'm so obsessed with the Spotify, it means I can't read any audiobooks. So I'm actually having to read black and white, uh, text. Um, text. So this is really exciting. If that's your kind of thing, then, uh, uh, do jump in. The next thing was that because our septic tank is failing and beginning to sludge up. If anybody, by the way, if anybody has any— and this is serious, Brendan, stop laughing quite so much. You imagine you're on it, you've got a septic tank. So we've got this septic tank and it's sludging.

That's a lot of imagination.

Yeah, sorry to go there. But, but, but, but, but, um, what we're going to do is we're going to bomb it with probiotics. And so to that end, I've got a probiotic Loo cleaner. Can you see that?

You know what I'm so disappointed about? Yeah, it comes in a plastic bottle.

I know, I know, but we've got to start somewhere. And we're getting rid of all our, all our sprays and things in the house, and we're going to be using things like this. This is a surface cleaner. It's probiotic surface cleaner.

Is that, is that the same?

It's, is that the same people as Luca, or is that It's, yeah, it's Ingenious Probiotics. If you want to, if you're interested in this kind of thing, or if you've got a, uh, he's not even paying us for that plug, which is a shame. This, and this is the, yeah, that's a floor cleaner, and, um, it's from Ingenious Probiotics. Joe Flanagan, have a chat with him, tell him that we sent you, and then he'll, he'll be very, very happy. And so there you go. So that's what we're doing to try, and we're going to blast the with some bugs. And, uh, we're not going to put any domestics or anything down the sinks, um, if we can possibly help it. So I think— right, so that's it. So if anybody knows about sludgy septic tanks, please let me know. And then the final one was, I have—

how many years since you actually had it cleared out, Nick?

About 4 days. Yeah. And it—

and we're doing it every 4 days.

No, no, no, it's— it— we had it cleaned out because it was sludging. And, uh, we do it every 3 or 4 months, which is much more frequently than they should be done.

More frequent.

Yeah, exactly. So, so there is a problem there. And the final thing is I have become a patron of a— within Patreon, because my old mate Charley Arnott— actually, Ellie's getting a little bit jealous because all I talk about is Charley Arnott. Charlie is bloke. And, and, and I've, I've, I'm donating to my old mate Charlie Arnott. And when I, when I went on to his Patreon page to give him my, my few quid, um, we have got twice as many Patreon followers as he's got. And he, he's pretty international. So guys, I'm so pleased. But we've actually beaten Charlie Arnaud to that thing. There you go, that's me.

I would agree, although I would say Carol, 22 years, that is brilliant, but maybe just get somebody to check that it's not just leaking straight into the local stream. But anyway, but yeah, no, proper digesters, and those— have you got the old reed bed you know, beyond, uh, sort of filtering everything out?

No, it's going into the garden actually. Yeah, it's going, it's, it's going into the tank and then any overflow is being pumped up to the top of the garden and the grass is growing like mad. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, tubes with, with holes in to, to percolate it into the, into the, uh, into the thing. So very, very, very Exciting. There you go. That's enough about sludge and regenerative agriculture, which is just so, so cool. It really is so cool. So I'm good to do questions. You've got a question there, a question handy when you switch off your phone?

Yeah, so we had a question from— now let's see, who is it from? Oh, anyway, it was about salivary mucocils. So because we've been talking about lumps and bumps in the mouth and we've not really touched on salivary mucosaeals, so it's really important that we probably just touch on that and get ourselves to a point where we can differentiate for those people what it is. So go on, Nick, you know enough about salivary mucosaeals, I'll jump in.

Yeah, salivary mucosa. Basically, your salivary glands, which are down here, they produce a trickle of saliva all the time, but, and it goes through a salivary duct to get from the gland to just under your tongue. Same in a dog. And if you get a blockage in that duct, they then blow up and they can be quite painful and You may not digest as well because you're not producing the saliva, and you will often have to either get it drained or surgically intervened, which is where you come in, because I haven't touched a scalpel, Brendan, for 23 years now, which is a shame because I quite like— oh yeah. So yeah, what would you do with it?

Uh, so a couple of things to remember. So these can often come up quite large, okay? And people get really worried because it's like some huge mass, and some of them will be mistaken for thyroid carcinomas and things like that in the dog particularly. But it can happen in dogs and cats. The telltale way is to do a fine needle aspirate. We've talked about that in previous cancer diagnosis. But if we place a fairly thick needle into this, we will draw off some fairly gooey material. Now, most salivary mucosals are to some degree self-limiting. They will reach a point where the gland is switched off and it stops producing saliva. And at that point, it then will usually sort of dry up and recede. Now, these can sometimes form because the saliva has actually created almost a solid mass of protein and it's lodged into the duct. And sometimes we can flush those. Sometimes it's just a case of draining off all of the saliva and letting it effectively fibrose up and allow the rest of the gland to take over. So as long as that blockage is not too far down the tract, So these usually are seen up here. They could happen any of the salivary glands, so the ones on the side of the head, but usually it's the ones just the submandibular. So just at the back of the throat, as Nick was showing you, and it's usually one-sided and we can drain those. There's enough saliva coming out the other side. Honestly, in dogs, they're not masticating food to mix saliva into, you know, the salivary digestive enzymes. Into material for them to have any sort of digestive effect. Usually it is just a lubrication of the mouth so that they can swallow big chunks. So don't worry too much about that. If they do need to remove the gland, it certainly isn't a problem as far as the digestion of foods into the future. If they are left with doing nothing else, there is a risk that they can get infected. So I have seen these turn into abscesses. They can start to redden up, get quite angry, can be very sore to touch. And if that's happening, then unfortunately draining, you have to lance them like an abscess, drain them properly, sometimes leave a drain in there with the material coming out. So that probably is about everything you need to know. There's very few cancers of the salivary gland They're certainly not common by any means. So usually, if they're going in and not finding lymph node material in that swelling, then the next thing that they need to do is use a larger needle and actually see if they can draw out saliva, because sometimes it's so thick in there it won't come out of a normal needle that you're using for fine needle aspirates.

Okay. Yeah, I think the take-home is really, if you find a lump anywhere, talk to your vet very, you know, fairly quickly about a fine needle aspirate biopsy. I think that's the, that's the take-home so that you know where you— no vets are born with x-ray vision, and therefore getting a needle into that lump, even if you choose not to do anything after that, but at least you know what it is such that you can make a decision to move away from a surgical option. So there you go, that's, that's Good advice. Okay, Fab, I've got a question here from Nicola. Nicola, I won't say your name just in case. And when you are trying a single protein diet to try and find out what's causing your dog to itch, how long do you give the single protein for, and does the protein source have to be one that you've never given before? I've listened to Itch 1 and 2 on the Facebook Lives, but couldn't find it there with any answers. So do you want to jump into that one to start with, Bren?

Yeah, just sorry, they, um, I was just reading these comments at the same time as you. Go and say that again. I was just like, oh, that was Heather. Oh, hi Heather, we've answered her question anyway.

Sorry.

Okay, go on.

Cool. So anybody come up with, uh, sludge thing. Sorry to go on about it.

Yeah, there was, uh, well, there's somebody here wanting to know a little bit more about, um, uh, being exposed to environmental chemicals, any behavior, any sort of supplements that you can use as preventatives for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Other than being on a good diet. But anyway, going back to your question anyway.

Yeah, move off sludge. Yeah, no more sludge. Good ideas though, thank you guys, I appreciate that. I could tell you everything about septic tank, but I won't.

So this is why a third person is always great in these points, because I can look at those comments and somebody else can answer your question. Nick, quickly, just précis what you were saying.

Okay, so doing food trials, how long on each protein, Does it have to be a protein that the dog has never ever seen before and for how long?

Okay, I often come across this problem. So a minimum of 6 to 8 weeks if it's truly an allergy. Now we will see a change if it's a hypersensitivity or an intolerance sometimes within a week to 2 weeks. But if it's a true allergy, it's minimum 6 to 8 weeks to see a start of a change, and it can take 12 weeks to truly overcome that allergy. So that could be a long trial if you're trialing a food. So that's why we have this interim 6 to 8 weeks to make sure, you know, how are they doing at that point? If they've already resolved totally, it was probably a hypersensitivity or some other sort of reaction. If it's not resolved but it's 50% better, say, then we need to continue with that protein trial. And if it's, you know, gets to 12 weeks and it's totally resolved, then it definitely was that issue. Okay. And we can say, you know, start challenging them with other proteins and see how they get on. As for the type of protein, the safest thing is always to go for something totally novel. But it's not always practical. And I would definitely say, you know, if you're able to get something like goat and they generally, or even if they're able to get lamb and they're mainly on chicken as a base diet, then that's an option for you to try is to go, do you know what, I'm going to try lamb and we'll stick to just lamb. We can get enough lamb only stuff, including organs and tripe, etc., and therefore we can stick to that. But you sort of, you know, all of the tests, I'm afraid, as I've said this many a time, at best are a guide, at worst misleading. Just please, yeah, if you're on a diet, please try and stick to that. Beware of all of those little additions. You know, some of the probiotics that have beef in them or some of the supplements that may have you know, soya in them, you know, just, just be aware that they could be perpetuating your problems. What protein is your favorite protein, Nick?

Okay, I've got 6 actually, but I'm just going to jump in. What I tend to do is initially I'll go 2 weeks, I'll go 2 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 weeks and do 3 or 4 proteins just, just, just to kind of have a broad view of what kind of sensitivities. It can sometimes get you off to a really good start. So that's number 1. And if you've got got a protein you think, is it or isn't it, is it or isn't it, then that's where you need to go for the 6-12 weeks or so. But that's a very long time. If you've got a dog squitting through the eye of a needle, 12 weeks is a very long time. So, um, initially a couple of weeks. The other thing is, um, does it have to be that they've never seen before? No, not really. But if it's slightly unusual, then that I think really, really helps. I always say wheat, beef, and chicken are the proteins, um, Wheat is obviously not a protein, but it does have gluten, gliadin, and what have you within it. And that's the protein that can cause problems. Wheat, beef, and chicken are the things that I find cause the most problems. And the other thing was— oh, yeah, my top proteins. Here we go. Right, here's the list. I've got it in my head. We have got goat and pork and fish and rabbit and duck, and venison. They would be my top 6. Take your pick. All of those really, really useful.

And absolutely great list there. I would say pork, definitely in the UK, really safe to give raw. Okay. Parasite side of things, they're often frozen out anyway for the worms and that side of things. And Even the viral concern, which is Algeschi's disease, which is pseudorabies, is not a problem in Western Europe and in the UK. So pretty much any of our pork you can feed raw, no problems. Be aware if you're in North America and Canada and certainly further afield in Far East and, you know, sort of Eastern Europe, Algeschi's is a Definite issue with raw pork. Be careful. It's normally taken out by cooking, um, or lightly cooking the food. Uh, as a virus, it's not very stable, but it certainly can be a very alarming disease. Not common, but it is out there. So I would just say that would be the one protein that I wouldn't say necessarily transfers around the world, uh, for being able to be used. In no circumstances, but a great list. Do you just want to quickly rattle off those ones again for the guys at home? Your favorite top 5 proteins?

Okay, yeah, yeah, if you want it again. So 6. So we've got goat and pork and fish. Fish, anything you like. White fish is usually the easiest to get hold of. So goat and pork and fish. And then we've got duck and rabbit and venison. Finding venison in the States is pretty difficult unless you know a hunter, but, um, those are, those are, those are goodies, I think.

Yeah, we've talked about this before because it's not necessarily— it's usually whitetail deer or red deer, isn't it? It's not, um, and then it starts to get— it's not produced to human grade, so they can't sell it and all the rest of it.

So yeah, so if in doubt though, you, you would just lightly— so if you, if you were in Middle East and you can get hold of pork, which may not be easy for religious reasons. But let's say you could that and you're thinking crumbs, you know, the guys were talking about Ojeski's disease, then just lightly cook it, really lightly cook it just to be on the safe side. We are— well, I'm not averse in some cases to lightly, lightly cooking food. I don't have a problem with that. Anything but kibble really for me is a pretty good thing. Have you got any questions there, Brent?

Yeah, so let's have another look at one from— yeah, so we were asking, so Debbie was asking with regards to this environmental chemicals, your favorite thing if you've got a animal with issues around environmental chemical sensitivities. And I'm guessing this is, you know, you've got a dog that's walking out in farmer's fields and they're spraying their crops and stuff like that. You know, what sort of things do you— how do you approach that for your clients?

Great question. I'm just talking about Charlie Arnaud again. He was interviewing a guy who is a holistic dentist in Sydney, and this guy said there are approximately 150,000 artificial chemicals out there, and they are adding to that list to the tune of about 2,000 new chemicals every year. So it is a war zone out there. That I would say is a definite thing that we need to be aware of. I'm just going to bring my microphone in because I didn't do it. I'm going to get killed by Pete. So sorry, what was your question, Ben?

Be gentle, be gentle. So your favorite sort of support for dogs that have been exposed to synthetic chemicals, and you know that you're— so I think we need to be more specific. So let's just say they've been out in the fields, they've had sort of pesticide exposure. What's your sort of—

okay. So obviously, and I have to say this, otherwise my wife will kill me, I would be shampooing that dog with a very good natural product like our friends at DermaDog, which is made by my wife, just so that you— I declare my interest. Okay, so you've got to get the stuff off in the first place. You know, if you, I don't know, you go for a walk and you walk across the field, then you get to the other end and you see the guy packing up his spraying equipment and you think, oh my God, what am I going to do? You go home and you shampoo the dog. If you go through the field and there's no obvious signs of spray, but you're thinking it kind of smells a bit funny, or they were busy in this field yesterday, I would just do the same. I would shampoo that dog just to get it off. Use a detergent, definitely use a detergent, because some of these things are organic and they are— they're not as water-soluble as they, they could be. The next thing is I would be thinking about trying to work out, trying to find out what the product was and seeing if your homeopathic pharmacy does a potency of that particular product. Or you can talk to the farmer and get a little tiny bit of that product, as long as it's not super toxic, which many of them are, and you can send that to your homeopathic pharmacy and they can run up a 30C potency or something like that. And that's a very good detox. They it during the war with mustard gas, for example. They were detoxing soldiers with mustard gas using homeopathics. The other thing is you can use things like Nux vomica or Thuja or something like these, the cleansing, or sulfur or silica as a, as a, as a cleansing remedy. And your homeopathic vet will be able to go through those with you. And then the final thing that strikes me would be to use something like the good old milk thistle, burplurum, schisandra, in order to promote the very best of liver and kidney health.

And I think absolutely right with that last bit, Debbie, you know, sort of like, you know, just clarifying, it's about almost trying to help preventative and be proactive. And I think, you know, augmenting the organ function with those herbs that Nick's just talked about at the end there, you know, is certainly a good way of trying to help the body metabolize any of these toxins. Most proactive support is always prevention. You know, just take care and think about where you're taking your dogs, you know, environmentally changing some of the protocols in the home. You know, don't forget, you know, a lot of EM, so electromagnetic radiation, and the effects that has on sleep patterns. People sort of poo-poo this, you know, it's the tin hat brigade, you know, looking at this, but We all know that actually you will sleep better. Well, we don't all know. It is shown that you will sleep better if you turn off all of your Bluetooth and Wi-Fi in the home. So they've looked at that. And actually, if you can improve the sleep patterns for yourself and therefore also for your dog, and the number of dogs I've seen with their beds just below the TV right next to the main router for the whole house on super boost, whatever your provider is. Actually, if you can improve the sleep patterns of us as mammals, you will reduce the sympathetic overdrive. If you reduce the sympathetic overdrive, you actually will improve their health just because otherwise they're living on the edge of adrenaline and all of the other things, the fight and flight scenarios that they're going to be in if they're having sympathetic overdrive. So I think, you know, those are simple fixes, even if it is just at night, switching some of that stuff off, thinking about what you're using around the home, where you're walking your dogs, can have a big impact.

In Scandinavia, apparently it is illegal. This is pretty old news and things may have changed, but it's illegal to to build a primary school within a kilometer of a telephone mast. You know, these, the, the, the relay masts that they use for mobile phones. So it's— there is, there is something in it. There really is something in it.

You know, um, I did a search on, you know, you do that scientific search, and I was searching around, um, some research on the effect on our decline of bees. Okay. Um, and most people thinking about it being pesticides, et cetera, but they have actually found there is a massive effect from those masts on bees returning to their hive. Um, uh, it almost like frying the sort of senses of those bees. Um, what's even more ridiculous is a namesake of mine, another Brendan Clark, is actually quite high up in research on that. It's nothing to do with me, guys. Nothing to do with me whatsoever.

But it is. I bet it is. You're hiding your— what's it— under a bushel there? Yes, your bushels under a bushel. Yes. Okay, that's amazing. This is good. This is great information. I'm, I'm going to jump into another question because we've only got about 10 minutes or so left. So here we go. So as raw feeders, we all understand the benefits of taurine and positive effects on heart health. My questions are, do kibble-fed dogs suffer more from heart issues than raw-fed dogs statistically? (Has a study been done?) And can changing over to balanced raw food improve heart health, and over what time period? Nice question. I'm going to jump into that, and I'm going to say, I don't think— and I'm borrowing information from the really wonderful Ryan Yamka. You need to check him out on, on YouTube. Yamka, Y-A-M-K-A, Ryan Yamka. And he has done— he's basically, he's a nutritionist, used to work with Hills, um, and he's certified and everything else. And he's done a lot of research into the whole um, uh, what's it called? Oh, uh, you— I just lost you for a second there. It is the DCM. Yeah, the DCM. But they— there was a rumor, and there's a whole conspiracy theory behind why that rumor started, but we won't go there, that the grain-free kibble was associated with DCM. Okay, we will go there if you like, but not today. And, uh, and that's where it all started. But he's investigated this and he said there is no link. That, um, yeah, there's no link. Okay, so that's a simple, simple one there. Do you want to do the, the next bit there? So do kibble-fed do dogs suffer from more heart disease than raw-fed ones? I don't know of any studies. Do you?

I don't know of any studies. I think the issue will be about they are going to be more prone to any deficiencies within diets, and we know that I think it's over 60% of diets, um, by, um, a nemesis of yours, uh, was, um, uh, published, which he actually stated that he felt it was really high number. I think it was definitely over 60%.

Yeah, it was about 63% of kibble and 95% of tinned pet food.

That's right.

Did not come up to the FEDIAF guidelines. It's a 2017 Nottingham University study.

So something that I'm looking into right now is this whole thing about digestibility, should it be measured by energy, should it be measured by assimilation? There are some recent studies. I showed you one the other day just on micronutrients and actually the rate of assimilation in fresh and, you know, certainly fresh ingredient foods over high, ultra-high processed foods. So there is research out there showing that they are more likely to be able to get the nutrients from fresh foods over ultra-processed. I think outside of that, being more specific, look, there's so many more dogs on kibble foods for so much longer. You know, there are so many different types of heart disease. You know, dilated cardiomyopathy is the one that most people point about taurine to because of the effects in cats, not necessarily in dogs. 'cause taurine isn't strictly speaking an essential amino acid in dogs. They can synthesize it. So it is something that maybe is a little bit of a red herring because of that. And there was this whole, you know, they get it because of genetics, you know, for dilated cardiomyopathy. So we see certain breeds definitely with dilated cardiomyopathy. There is some interesting research on some polypeptides out there as supplements for these. So there's a whole new range of engineered peptide treatments that are sort of coming onto the market in the human field. And, you know, people are starting to look at that for their dogs. And there are some that are specifically associated with heart disease and dilated cardiomyopathy in humans. So it would be interesting to see where that goes in the future. So yeah, loads, loads of stuff out there on new supplements, I guess, as much as anything. We know that omega-3s definitely have got a place in treating heart disease, as has selenium and vitamin E. Vitamin E. That's it. So they have a definitive place. I think outside of that, look, would I feed a heart disease dog on raw? Yes, I definitely would. Without a shadow of a doubt.

I would go further than that. I would say feed heart. I always feed my heart cases with heart. Now it sounds like something from Shakespeare, but actually there's some good idea because heart is really full of coenzyme Q10 and choline and taurine and all that kind of stuff. And therefore very good because hearts require this stuff. So there is, there is real logic there. All my cavaliers will go on to heart from kind of 6 years old, if not, if not, and this will be kind of 2 or 3 times a week or a little bit of heart in every single meal. And I find that's really, really useful.

So yeah, somebody's asked, we're going to do another whole session, I think, on renal disease. Somebody's asked about, you know, would they feed dogs lightly cooked or raw for renal disease? I think let's fire through some quick answers for some of these. What's your take on that? Because there was a study by Hemopet, wasn't there, on feeding lightly cooked. So what's your take?

My take is for renal disease, I would go raw, definitely. And the reason that I would go raw is because there's some work coming out dealing with cats and people whereby they say that if you give a dog or cat phosphorus in the form of a salt, a kind of a synthetic calcium phosphate or selenium phosphate or whatever it might be, the impact on blood phosphorus is much more dramatic than if you give organic phosphorus contained within meat. So for that reason alone, I think a raw diet is a really, really, really good idea. Also, a raw diet is going to be high in B vitamins because it's going to be liver and all sorts of goodness there. It also means that you've got a much more greater range because you're not paranoid about phosphorus. And so therefore you're not avoiding medium and high phosphorus foods, although I would go easy on high phosphorus, you know, the dark fish and veal and what have you. But apart from that, you've got a much greater range. And so I would say raw. Also raw if you're feeding grass-fed beef, for example, much higher in omega-3s than any other type of beef. And I would give— I usually give B vitamins with these things, oils if the dog is fairly advanced in renal disease in order to maintain weight. Any other bits and pieces there, Brent?

I would definitely say that I've fed a lot of renal cases on raw. I think the issue to understand is they have concerns that the standard range for azotemia, so that is looking at the blood urea nitrogen and the creatinine within the bloodstream of these pets, shifts to the high, to a slightly higher range in raw-fed dogs. And creatinine is basically a muscle turnover enzyme. So basically, as the muscle is broken down, the creatinine is released and it just happens to be excreted in a constant rate from the kidneys. And that's why we monitor it. So if it goes up above a certain range, the kidneys aren't managing to filter it through as quickly. But of course, if you're feeding a relatively high meat diet, then more creatinine is going to be coming into the system. So you can have a higher level without there necessarily being an impact on kidney disease. The other thing that you've got to be aware of is urea levels can also be higher and affected about when you fed those animals. So think, just because they're slightly high in those ranges, don't get dragged into that's the be-all and end-all of diagnosing kidney disease. You know, get them to check the SDMA, get them to check the phosphate to calcium ratios. That are in the blood. Get them to look at the urine protein creatinine ratios. So all of these should be added into your renal checks once you're monitoring to make sure, you know, where we're going. I have seen these results where the SDMA recovers massively on pure raw. If you're really bothered about phosphates, there are ways to bind phosphates out. Okay. But again, as Nick says, I think the bigger issue tends to be where people have added in high-processed foods. They've added inorganic phosphorus into the diet to try and balance it in inverted commas. And realistically, you don't want to be doing that. You don't want to be adding some of these minerals in inorganic phase to your dog's diet. So just avoid them. Yes, Rebecca has said, well, look, you could reduce the phosphorus by 40% by lightly cooking it. I would still advocate— I don't see that big a problem with dogs that are fed raw. There are ways to other, you know, other ways to bind out that phosphate using chitins and things like that. So these are options that are out there. There's so many other things to support renal cases. Definitely Berberis taraxacum as mother tincture drops into the water. Can be really useful. Alfalfa if they need a bit of appetite stimulation, and then just consider a constitutional for, you know, their other supports. I've had dogs, you know, thrive, not just survive, but thrive for years having been changed up to a raw diet because of renal disease. And be careful, you know, some of those proprietary diets out there, they're still considering low protein diets, and ultimately they're starving these renal patients to death. They become cachexic. They blame the kidneys for that. But actually, the fact that you're not feeding them enough protein for them to maintain their body mass is, you know, the primary reason for it. So just please, quality protein, something they can assimilate without chopping the nitrogen off to make energy. Out of a damaged protein molecule is probably the best way to feed those dogs.

Awesome. Also, good old-fashioned milk thistle is good for your kidneys, so, you know, never forget milk thistle. That's really, really good. I've got one last question here, Bren. A question: raw-fed dog, feed once per day or twice per day? Currently feeding twice per day, brackets, with a 24-hour fast every 2 to 3 weeks, but wondering if better overall for their digestive system, immune system, etc. To switch to once per day. Where do you sit on the frequency of feeding and also fasting?

Yeah, so I randomize my dogs so much. I never like them to have a set pattern of feeding. I think it's far more likely they're going to get the, you know, sicky phases because you know, if they're sort of preset by other signals, not necessarily the clock, but some people would say that, you know, diurnal rhythm is something that's going to be quite strong in dogs that are fed every, you know, 5 o'clock every day. And I would just say that there are other markers about, you know, you coming home, you're going to certain cupboards, you know, or the fridge, or, you know, that they get set, you know, getting their bowls out, that that's sets them into a pattern. And if that becomes a regular pattern and then they don't actually get the food at that precise point, that's probably going to cause more issues with the gurgling and the digestive upsets and, you know, almost the priming that's gone on and then nothing happens than actually if they just randomly get food as if they were hunting that prey, you know, they'd just come across that prey almost opportunistically and then, you know, that's what they've got. And almost the prep I love to think of as some bone material, some chewing on carcass, things like that to then actually then consume the rest. I do still have starved phases for myself and for my dogs. I still would say I think the apoptosis, the gobbling up of cells which have gone slightly wrong, don't look right, to the body. It's a really useful opportunity for those dogs to go through that phase, gets rid of some of those early cancer cases, you know, cancer cells, those sort of things. So that's a useful element to this, the sort of fasting side of things. I think fasting, yeah, the more I've looked into the sort of metabolism and how our insulin works and that you know, the leptins and everything else that comes into that, you've got that concern that if you do extended fasts— and I've seen people do this, you know, 42-day, I'm not going to do anything other than drink water— just the bounce back that your body, you know, your body's metabolism shuts down into almost a third of its normal metabolism, you know, for the energy of basal metabolic rates. You know, you don't want to be shutting your dog down into that. Now, you're not going to do that if you're intermittent fasting for, you know, 16 to max 24 hours. But I think if you're sort of extending that to days at a time, I'd have a concern that you probably are going to shut down their basal metabolic rate. And then all of a sudden you start feeding them again and what the body's going to do is just, it's going to act as if, well, I might be starved again, so I'm going to store loads of fats, which is not a good thing to do.

Yeah, I think I would, I agree, once daily feeding if you can get away with it. If you've got an Irish, an Irish Setter or one of these breeds that's really prone to twisting, then you might not want to go for once a day feeding. However, if you look at it, you know, everyone says, oh, deep chested dogs, they're going to be more prone. You know, most wolves, most dingoes, most coyotes, you know, all these things, they're all deep-chested, and yet they go running around with a belly full of food. So there's a— it's quite a funny scenario. But definitely once a day feeding, once a day feeding, if you can get away with it, yes, brilliant. Random feeding, definitely, because otherwise you can get hunger pukes. And the other thing is fasting. Yes, Juliette de Barracly-Levy in the '20s and '30s she came out with this, and I think it's a very, very good idea to get into periodic fasting. Do we— does Ellie's in charge of feeding the dogs. Does she fast them? Not a chance. But no way. No way.

My kids would even say that I used to fast them as well on occasions if I forgot to feed them.

An in-deliberate casting.

Yeah, I'm sorry, Amy, because I know sometimes you watch this just because you don't see me often enough and you catch my voice on Facebook instead. So blessed. This is really interesting point by Mindy, you know, that this concern over bloat. So there is this thought out there, we sort of came across this, that people are still saying it's because of dogs gulping their food that they ingest air that causes the bloat. Now, actually, there was a lot of work done and some studies out there to show that the gas that's within those bloat cases, I think in over 99% of cases, is actually fermenting product. It's not consistent with being ingested air. So don't get stuck into that thought that they're going to be gulping air because they're starving. Doesn't seem to be the case. Now, there are some other breeds that have other issues around hernias of the diaphragm, hiatal hernias, things like that, that can gulp air for other reasons. Okay, because of just how they're, you know, when their chest expands, air pumps into their esophagus and then they you know, pump it down through into the stomach. But they're really, really rare cases. Okay, they really are. And I think if that's a picture of a— do you reckon that's a picture of a Doberman on there?

It looks like a Dobie to me.

Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily one that I would be worried about bloat because of fasting in those cases. Okay.

Yeah, cool. We've got Whippet Whippet Italian Greyhounds, and they've got deep chests on them, and yet they're not prone to bloating at all. So it's a big question. I think we did bloating, didn't we? Because it's one of Conor's favorite topics. So have a look back in the annals, and you'll find that we did a whole thing probably a year ago on bloating. So that's all very, very good. Right. So, Bren, I'm going to have to shoot. So what are we doing next week, do you think? Because Brady might grace us with his presence.

Do you reckon?

Yeah. Yeah.

I think he's getting too happy about doing his own recording and singing along to some rock group or other. So I'm sure we will decide over these coming days. If he's forgiven us for our quips about his, his rock preference, um, then we will come up with a good plan. Um, there is so much to talk about, uh, so many new things. I think it's about time we did another deep dive into regen farming, you know, some new thoughts. I think you should do that as well. You said one of the guests would come along, did you say?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a guy, I've got a guy, um, he's called Andy Gray, uh, and he has a a, uh, he runs a regenerative, um, farm and he raises cattle and what have you. And he is based at Crediton in Devon and his, his company is called The Farmer's Dog. So that's, that's— he's, he's strongly, strongly regenerative and, um, he's a good bloke. So we will, we will, we will get him on. Yeah.

Yeah, and please don't forget, join us on, um, the www.patreon.com/rawpetmedics if you want that code to Brady's special course, um, and see what he's going to, uh, to show us. Um, and we'll maybe quiz him about it next week and see, yeah, see if he's, uh, he's had any takers and questions on that. But great, looks so good to see you all, all of those that have been clinging on to, you know, chatting. So great to see you all answering each other's questions live as well. It's been really interesting to see some of the comments going up. So anything else? I'll try and pop some other comments on those after this session, and we look forward to seeing you next week. Take care, guys.

Great, guys. Thank you so much.