RPM Feline Friday: Kittens Best Start

Hello everyone, are we live?

Yeah, we are. And we are coming to America.

Good morning, America.

They have got us crazy Europeans going across the world. We hope that you're going to enjoy this. So this is our New Year edition for welcoming people into best things for cats and kittens that are joining the household. I am Brendan Clarke. I have been a vet for nearly 30 years now in holistic medicine up in Yorkshire in England, and I'm really enthused about bringing nutrition or raw nutrition to the masses. So that's why we started Raw Pet Medics. And now we're with Dr. Judy Morgan's page too, so you're gonna catch some more of us. And down below we have Amaya. Introduce yourself, Amaya.

Hey, hello, how are you? Well, my name is Amaya Spindola. I'm originally from Argentina but living in Spain right now, and, um, I work as a holistic cat vet and nutritionist. I, I have my own, uh, company, let's say, FelVet. I'm the president of the Raw Feeding Veterinary Society, and I work with a little bit more than as a conventional vet, not holistic. I work with emotions, I work with energy and everything that it's, uh, available to us. So my program is called, uh, Heart, Cat, and Soul, and we work 3 months to get the best out of your cat.

And over to my side here because I hope that's right. Oh, mine is Julianne. Julianne, intro yourself to everybody.

Hi everyone, my name is Julianne Thorne and I'm a holistic cat therapist and I've created Naturally Cats. You may have seen me live on Judy's page before. So I am a traditional behavior— I'm not a traditional behaviorist, I am a qualified behaviorist And I also use, as Amaya said, energy work and emotional tools to support cats. So I help people to reconnect, to understand, and to deepen their relationship with their cats. And that could be using a variety of tools, so behavior modification, environment enrichment, but also energy work such as color therapy, healing. I use botanical remedies and chakra clearing. So it's a, it's a holistic approach trying to support all elements that affect the cat.

Wow, so that's where you're going to have it. We're going to have some great talk this morning, this afternoon, depending where you are around the world. If you want us on catch-up, all you need to do, like and follow our page, and you will be able to find the video at any time. You just come on and watch it, catch up, all that. So please do come and join us. If you've got any comments, please, you can comment live. We are actually watching those comments So if you've got any questions, anything that you want to ask, just type away. Hopefully we'll get some of that through this morning and see how things are going. So I'm just going to— so just in case you want to know, this little kitten down in here is my latest addition. He's now 6 months old. Okay, we're going to be talking a little bit about how you can cope with entire cats at that age. So what we want to do is probably start with what most people have asked on the pre-program advert, which was about how to protect them. What do we do about vaccination? Okay, so Amaya, I'm going to start with you. What's your sort of best approach to helping the immune system for your kittens, and at what point do you start to consider vaccination?

Okay, so as everything that I do, I don't have general advice for everyone, but I have some key elements that I look for, especially if you just got and adopt a cat. I make sure first that it's healthy and able to You know, to tolerate the vaccine. So first of all, yeah, you will, you will hear cats roaming around and making sounds.

Sorry, not just background music, everyone.

We've actually got cats with us and they might be hungry because, you know, it's time. But anyway, so, um, I'll give most of the times individual advice. I make sure that the nervous system is working fine. I make sure that digestive system is working fine because all of these elements are part of the immune immune system, you know, everything has to work properly so the vaccine actually works, you know, and we get the most out of it. So first of all, if you adopt a cat, but you don't know its background and something is, I don't know, something's not well, maybe it's best to keep it apart and make sure that not infection, anything, it's coming out. And then think about what you're going to vaccinate. You know, most of the times that they say 8 weeks or, you know, 6 to 8 weeks to start vaccinating, but I first look into this. I'm not always doing vaccine at that age. Right. And then there are several things that you can get. I don't know how it is in the UK, but here you get vaccinations until 6 months and, you know, many boosts and things. And so, well, I usually just get 2 rounds of, um, of the 3 combination. I don't know how you call it, uh, in English, but with a calicivirus or provisor and then those things. And then, um, and I usually get— I don't use a leukemia virus until 6 months, though it's recommended to start earlier, but, um, I don't because I don't see the point. Yeah, in my case, in my experience. And rabies, it depends on, um, it depends on the, on where you are. Because, uh, for example, I started working in Madrid, and in Madrid, uh, it's not obligatory, but then in Mallorca it is. And then, uh, in Argentina, it depends on which part you are, because in the middle, most of the— it is controlled due to vaccine because we do have rabies in the north of Argentina. And so it depends on the real risk of things. So you must have a conversation with your vet about when to vaccine, if the risk is going to be, you know, if you're gonna have a multi-cat household, then you should think about something different of what I'm saying right now, right? So first of all, analyze the risks, analyze everything you have around yourself, and then think about what you actually need. I don't know if you have something different to add on to this, and then we have to talk about the boost after a year, right? But I would like to hear your opinion, Brendan, on this and how you take on this.

Yeah, so I always say, look, many of them will have come from the breeders with the vaccination, at the very least one vaccination. So many breeders are trying to you know, get them out into new households from 8 weeks at least. And they are really pushing to have vaccinations given by that point. Now, look, just so you know how immunity would naturally evolve for cats from mum is that the first milk, so the colostrum that mum gives, should impart antibodies that are absorbed through the gut and give the kitten some protection from those normal viruses that mum has been exposed to in the local area. So things like the three things, the enteritis, the calicivirus, the herpes virus, generally they will have some antibodies for circulating. Sometimes if mum's had some exposure but been vaccinated and immune, they may have some leukemia virus, and there may be some other minor viruses as well that are coming through in that that we don't even vaccinate against. For those in the States, you know, the rabies shot, again, that would be bringing rabies stuff through. So realistically, that colostrum should last that kitten till about 12 weeks of age. That's the sort of studies of how long that immunity lasts in cats and dogs, in fact.

Yes.

So we actually then look at sometimes those vaccines are competing with the colostrum to work out whether they will start to impart natural immunity developed by the kitten. So there is debate if you give the vaccine too early, the colostrum antibody is going to wipe out the vaccine and you're not going to actually help anything other than cause inflammation.

And the thing is that they suggest to keep doing more and more vaccination until you get over this. But in my— I prefer to not to do that.

And it's really interesting because around the world we see the same vaccine company often give different advice depending on which country you're in.

Yes.

Whereas, so we know that in Europe, you know, these— there's most of the vaccine companies now will say if you give a single shot for dogs at 12 weeks, you'll give— you'll impart immunity from that single shot. Now, if they are for cats, we would say, look, you want to probably wait till that 12-week stage to give the best immunity, give the kitten a chance to get to a size where there's going to be less of a a concern if you're going to do that. If you can delay longer, and certainly when it's an indoor cat, you know, that's more about biosecurity and making sure that you're washing your hands, that you're not, you know, bringing any risk of virus in from other cats. Now, that is, you know, virus that can be brought in on your shoes, things like that. So just putting your shoes in the cupboard out of the way. That's a simple way of adding biosecurity to your indoor cat environment.

On that note, Brenda, there's a great question there from Emily. Yes, she says, I have an indoor cat due for a booster. He's had every year since he was a kitten. He's now 3 years old. What I worry about is that it will damage his immune system and cause more illnesses in the long run. Is there a protocol after having a booster?

Yeah, so Firstly, delay that initial vaccine course as long as possible. Now for cats, they do still advocate 2, but then you are effectively into a much more expanded range. So the new licenses for the same vaccine— these are not vaccines that have changed— are now 3 years level of COVID for the enteritis side of things. Now Now for the flu, they will say that if they are a low-risk cat, again, 3 years cover. Okay, for some of the Felv valences that are out there, no change in the vaccine, same vaccine, but now studied 3 years level of COVID Okay, so do not get too worried about, oh, I'm 1 or 2 months over, I'm going to have to restart. Don't restart, okay? Single shot if you're going to use something. And the biggest cause of angst to the immune system is that level of inflammation. And there are now non-adjuvanted vaccines available, okay? Which means that you are not causing excessive amounts of inflammation and risking their immune system or their general health through inflammatory processes and immune-mediated disease by avoiding the, that adjuvant within the product. That's something. So it can be as nasty as aluminium hydroxide all the way through to some of the oils that are used as adjuvants. So try and look and ask your vet about non-adjuvanted vaccines that are available, and some of them are looking for smaller dose sizes as well now. So there's some half dose sizes available that are still as effective. So look at that. Now, further to that, there are things that you can use. They're available worldwide. So dimethylglycine, I've talked about in the UK and Europe, that's under a brand like this, Vetra DMG, dimethylglycine. It comes as a liquid or a powder. The methylated glycine, that's an amino acid. It is not a super complex, horrible drug or anything like that. It is an amino acid. And just like lysine, which is also known to help the immune system, it helps to modulate the T helper cells to give better response to illness. So there are things like this. In the States, it's VetriScience make dimethylglycine. So there are availability across the pond. And I would certainly say things like that, just added the week before you're going to give a vaccine can help. Milk thistle is a herb very much about supporting liver and processing, just general inflammation, but it's not necessarily the herb that I would reach for. Okay. For that, some people would say echinacea is a much better option to help the immune system. And therefore, again, you can use that as drops, but I would tend to use it— and we're going to talk about zoopharmacognosy in a little bit— but I would tend to use it in some water that the cats can choose which water source they're going to go for. Okay, so there are products like that around. They should help. Would it be something that if they're indoor cats, own I would boost only if they're going to go to catteries. If they're going out of your home environment and you're going to be taking them to the cattery, or they're going to have, you know, they've got other problems and you want to, you know, they're going to have extensive stays outside of your house with other cats, etc. Or you've got cats within your household that come in from outside, although that one cat is an indoor cat. The craziness of what happens out there in the world, that, you know, those are risks to that indoor cat, and you've got to consider those, all of those risks that Amaya talked about. You've got to talk that through as to where does that place your individual cat for what you need to do for their protection.

And what can you do, as you know, in your house? Like, say, take off your shoes when you get inside your house, or maybe, I don't know, have something— make sure which cats get into your house. And everything, you know, there are other things to control with, not only vaccines. And there is a nice question here about, uh, why they booster every year. Um, I do believe it's kind of what we've learned, but, um, and as always, it's a habit.

Absolutely, it's a habit. You know, it's, uh, you know, there was a point where those vaccines, they licensed them for a yearly booster purely on a basis that what we had was the situation, it was easier to ask owners to come back every year than it was to ask them to come back every 3 years because we tended to forget. Okay. And it's terrible that that came about and people weren't promoting health checks and making sure that the cat is healthy, looking at their teeth, things that can happen even if they're indoor cats, that they can get degeneration of their teeth, checking their thyroid, you know, checking their hearts, making sure their kidneys are okay. All of these things that can happen without any exposure to outdoor cats coming into their lifestyle are really important. One thing I did want to bring up on that stress factor, we know if you're in sympathetic drive, your immune system is going to be suppressed. Okay, that's pro-inflammatory, lots of other stuff going on. So what ends up happening is that your cat will not respond as well. So if they're just arrived in your home, by all means get them checked out to make sure they're healthy, but please, that is not the time to get the vaccine given because there's so much else going on.

Yes, totally. And there is, um, there is something saying about, uh, so it's okay to do it every year. Well, for me, I would say no because it's not necessary. And, and that, um, I would rather— if you, if you are concerned, you can always do antibody titer you know, and make sure that they are protected. But boosting every year, if, if not necessary, I mean, it causes excessive inflammation and also causes kind of a reaction of the immune system that you don't want, you don't need. And it's better to actually combine the vaccination, the protocol that it's suggested for your you can, and then added other things like nutrition, like other things that, you know, protection, the environment, and the control of stress levels. And that would be like a complete care because some people believe that simply by boosting every year, oh, that's okay, that's all I have to do. And no, still you get, you know, as Brendan said, you know, the stress levels they are not under control, maybe you're not feeding properly, other things have to be considered to actually protect your cat.

Yeah, and Emily, I can see where you're going, you know, is it okay to do? Of course it's preferred that you would reduce the amount of boosting that you give because there are now vaccine checks so you can actually check the immunity, and if the immunity is okay, you don't need to boost, and that's available for cats too. So I would certainly look at that. And if you absolutely have to boost because they're going to catteries, spread it out to 3-yearly, okay? And look at how you can minimize that boosting and look for the non-adjuvanted vaccines. They are out there, okay? I'm not going to go through all of the individual brands at this point because you can look on our Facebook page and I'll put a few brands up there that you can look to, okay? I think the next— we need to move on because we've Yeah, vaccination, we've got to get through. So that's, that's immunity. We've sort of like, you know, do the best by them. So, you know, we've got to then start looking at what's going on with nutrition. You know, Julianne, I'm just going to ask you, come on, what do you feed your cats?

Well, it's lovely to join in with you. I'm sat here listening to you two, like, you know, I'm just like soaking up all your knowledge and wisdom. It's fascinating. You guys know so much, and I'm so honored to to be part of this with you, and I'm, I'm really grateful how much detail and information you share with everyone. So currently Leo is fed raw food, so I don't make it myself. I don't have the capacity to understand and make sure that it's balanced. So I do get a, you know, I buy it in frozen. Baby Max, well, if you'd have asked me a week ago, we fed raw and a mixture of a little bit of wet. This last few days, it's— we, we're on a bit of a—

yeah, he's mad, he wants to eat.

Sorry, I was gonna say, should I not tell the story? Um, yeah, so in theory we feed raw and a bit of wet, but unfortunately baby Max has had a bit of a, um, I don't know, a setback, I would say. And we are currently trying to bring him back again to raw and wet. So he came to us from a rescue center. He's just 12 months old and he was fed a mixture of wet and dry. So, you know, we are Raw Pet Medics with the feline version and we will say openly about dry food and that is a whole other topic that we, I think we have done or we will do. But, you know, a rescue center, they're a charity. Dry food is cheap. Dry food is convenient. Dry food is like no fuss. It's there, you know, when we went there, there were bowls of it. And the kittens were all over the place, you know. So we, we had to work on his nutrition, and we still are, because I, I think personally we need to do more gut support, you know. I need to get his gut biome balanced again, and I do, you know, I need help with that even though I'm a cat specialist, you know. It's not my area of expertise, and, and, you know, it's understanding, like Amaya said, what does he need specifically, you know, how does he need help. So Um, we, we're on a journey with Baby Max, but Leo, when we got him, he also came to us wet and dry from the rescue center because both my boys are rescue. And it took us, I think it was 5, maybe 6 months to get him onto raw. So, you know, it's doable. It's, you know, it's a bit of a journey, but he was 2 and a half when we got him, so he wasn't a kitten. But I would really recommend when you've got the littlies, you know, the, the tiny ones, 8 weeks— God, I hope they're 12 weeks when they come to you because 8 weeks is is very, very, very young from a behavioral, emotional perspective. I would always advocate 12 weeks or more, but, you know, have fun with it. Introduce them to different things, you know. And I know that you guys will probably have the sciencey bit behind this, you know, mine's the emotion and behavior bit, but it's about, you know, like you would with children, is exposing them to as many different, you know, flavors and brands and options as you can to give them the, the chance to be familiar with it. You know, it's bringing in elements of which may not be for everyone— whole foods, you know, raw prey and things. At the end of the day, cats are carnivores. They are obligate carnivores, and that is something that we can't forget. You know, we choose to have them as our pets. I don't see my boys as my pets, but you know, they are animals that we choose to live with us and We need to remember that they're not rabbits, they're not herbivores, you know, they're not omnivores, they are carnivores. And if we choose to have a carnivore for a pet, why is that funny?

No, no, no, we are reading a comment.

I think there's always something I say which seems to set these two off with a chuckle. What was it this time?

No, no, no. For me, it was a comment that she said it took 2 years for Beth to transition a junkie, a kibble junkie cat. So yeah, that, that was made, made me laugh because it is kind of my cat was kind of like that before. Okay.

Brendan, what were you talking about?

No, no, exactly the same. Don't worry. I was not, I was not going to, I was not going to raise anything else.

Do you know what, Beth? I am there with you. So baby Max, we've had like peaks and troughs. So at one point he's fully raw, then he'll go off it a little bit. We bring in a bit of wet and now we've kind of, like I said, taken a step back. So It is, it's a journey, it really is when it comes to nutrition with some cats, not all cats.

Yeah, I would definitely say, you know, we've got a video on transitioning cats and the challenges, so look back in the archives. You just go to the video section of the Facebook page, you will be able to find that and have a look at the transitioning. There are some great things to use, very briefly, from bone broths heated added to the food to help entice them onto raw. I think just trying to work out the best way to get a species-appropriate diet into them and certainly reduce the amount again of carb loading that goes into that. They're far more predisposed to diabetes, to obesity, to inflammatory disease if they are going to be fed high-carb foods. So this is not revolutionary. This is just basic facts. There are obligate carnivores. And don't get too worried. People suddenly go, but the taurine, I need the taurine. Guess what, guys? It's readily available in raw, fresh meat. That's where taurine is found in the richest. Yes, of course you can give heart as well to get extra strengths of that, but realistically, it's going to be in raw meat. It's only destroyed if you start to heat that raw meat, okay? And then you'll start to lose the effective, the effective quantities of taurine that are utilizable. So that's when you have to start supplementing, which is why the kibble companies put out there they have to supplement in. So just remember, okay, you don't need to supplement if you're giving good fresh raw meat.

Yeah, sometimes good, it's something not available so easy. So I would, in my case, I would, here in Spain, I would recommend, uh, unless you buy like the best of best of best, uh, to actually supplement, uh, a very low dose. But still, uh, I, I rather, you know, in my experience it's been quite good to do that just in case you don't know where you're getting your meat from or you have any So taurine, if you give in excess, you know, it's simply going to go through the urine. So it's no, no issue, but also don't get crazy with supplements. That's another thing, you know, it's not about getting, uh, all, oh, I heard this one is good for this and this one is good. So, you know, we get so excited about sometimes supplementation and, and, um, it's best to you to find the, the best quality of food that you can and then think about if you want to add certain things, but not go crazy with that. And well, in my case, I had a cat with regarding also with the question about chewing that, you know, some cats are reluctant to do that. And what I do is I grab a piece of a small bone, but I usually don't start with with raw meaty bones. I start with something more tasteful like lamb, um, how do you call it, lamb tripe, but cut it in strings like that, strips, yeah, like that. And then I just hold them because if you put it on the— directly on the plate and the cat is not used to do that, you're gonna go like, what the hell was this, right?

You know, for them, they are like neophobic, aren't they? So they're like, it's new, I don't like it, it's danger, you know. So straight away, yeah, like, nope.

This is— what are you doing? So what I do is, um, you know what, when you're trying to write something on a paper and they are trying to play with your pen, well, so that's that same thing you should do with a, with a meaty bone or a treat, a healthy one. Please don't start with the dental things or whatever, simply, you know, lamb stripes like that and things like that. Very healthy, very good, or even pieces of meat. But make sure you play a little bit, like you're writing something. And then the cat will, you know, get like, oh, what is this? What is it? And then they'll start chewing. Uh, and you know, you have to have like Beth patience, like 2 years to transition to a cat. That's something to applaud. So that's really good. So just have some patience, but they, they start doing it and Actually, one of my cats had dental disease and we start doing that with that and then some pieces of meat also hanging from a bowl, you know, like he found something special. I think there is a video with a piece of chicken that I just uploaded to my social media and my cat got crazy with that. So, you know, you can do many things to start to make them chew and it's healthy for emotional health and physical health because, you know, here there's a lot of tension as well. And so not only to clean their teeth but also to, you know, to motivate the cat to what actually— what they actually do, predate.

And also as kittens, you know, it's a great mental health element there, isn't there? Like you said, you know, they are curious, they are interested.

Exactly.

So, you know, encourage that with them because they are trying to find their strength and they're, you know, they lean into their kind of natural behaviors. So if you can bring that out and support that, that is going to help them mentally and emotionally as well.

And as soon as—

so many things to talk about, I just want to get in.

Yes, sorry, Brendan, you go.

I do want to say, look, yeah, for the freeze-dried, I think you're probably more meaning the air-dried treats and things like that. There's NEX and various things you can get, certainly in the UK. JR Treats do a lot of that. Product now. Ankol do a lot of this where you'll see those tripe strips, but you'll see skin strips, you'll see, you know, the necks sort of dried. They are optional, but I tend not to advocate those so much just because they get quite big and cats will start to just sort of like, well, it doesn't have the odour and the interest. I think the sprats I do find that they will eat the sprats dried. Okay, they're sort of— because they've got that silvery fish, um, you know, element to them, you can use them as that hunting. So evoke that natural behavior of a bit of a hunt first and then give them the reward of the food. Um, and a little bit earlier there was, um, the stuff about is it, is it safe to give seaweed products in there, is the iodine going to cause a thyroid problem in these cases? Now, my experience is it's the plastics wrapping these that are particularly of concern with the BPAs and phthalates within those that actually can cause thyroid growth. So we've seen studies now where the wrapping to those sachets and heating, so even the canned food is actually plastic-lined now. Okay, that was to stop the tinniness coming through in the flavor, and instead they just thought they'd put some toxins in your food instead. So, you know, superheated plastic leaching into the food sat on the shelf, that had a definitive coordination with those cats suffering from thyroid illness. So that's a small tumor on the thyroid gland. So I'd actually be avoiding anything that's plastic wrapped that isn't BPA, phthalate-free. If you're going to go for foods, do not worry so much if you're using some of those seaweed products to help reduce the plaque-forming bacteria. I feel that you're probably going to be okay unless they're actually suffering from a thyroid illness already because of history.

You know what I've been trying with the little fishes is I just tied them up and play with them and then they, you know, they tend to eat it. Well, my cats are already trained, but you can try that as well because they like it, you know.

Yeah, brilliant. So lots of things there. It also brought in, you know, talking about playing with the food first. I mean, mum's going to be kicking me for saying playing with your food. You can't play with your food. But cats, you know, we've got to accept they play with their food. How many times have we seen the mouse that's been— yes, yeah, and then eaten? Okay, so it is just a case of, um, uh, you know, giving them that bit of natural behavior. And actually, somebody wrote in one of the, the adverts for today, um, about how do I deal with the cat or kitten that we've rescued that actually will be biting them, you know, if they're in a single cat household, this is the only kitten and it's them as the owners, how do we deal with that? And part of it is displacement onto the hunting process and allowing them to display naturally. But also, I love to watch kittens in a litter naturally, how they behave with each other and with mum. And how that reaction occurs. And so I think, you know, for this, Julianne, this is another area that you're probably absolutely excellent in. So, you know, go for it. Just give us your insights into how people maybe deal with that behavioural issue.

And you're absolutely right, it is displacement, it's transference, whatever version you want to use. They are, you know, they need to exhibit those behaviours and you need to direct it to an appropriate place. So I can't tell you how many people have said to me, my cat attacks my ankles when I'm walking or going up the stairs. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, and Maya knows it too. She's got the same clients, I imagine, all the same people in the community say that because cats are hunters, you know, that's what they do. So if they don't have access to outdoors— now I'm not saying that cats should blindly be out, allowed outside, every situation is different, you know, so you need to bear that in mind. I think actually Judy and I did an indoor versus outdoor debate, um, a while ago. You know, so if you don't have access to outside, you know, it's about nurturing those behaviors. And that is where you need to play. You need to engage with the cat. If you don't, they will bite your hand, they will bite your ankles, they will attack your legs because they are looking for moving prey. They are looking to express themselves doing natural cat behaviors. So, you know, wand toys, and as Amaya said, you know, bits of not just meat, but, you know, the freeze-dried sprats on a little bit of string. The other night, Baby Max was having a bit of a funny 5 minutes. Leo looked just really frustrated. I thought, okay, I'm going to kind of intervene and support them because just because I have 2 cats doesn't mean that they will play with each other and entertain each other. So, you know, to prevent Leo becoming aggressive, I thought, right, I'm going to play with Baby Max. I had a million and one jobs to do. So I had a little mouse that had a bell on the end attached to the end of a shoestring. And I tucked it into the back of my leggings. So I'm walking around the house trying not to trip over myself or trip myself up on this mouse. And baby Max was trailing along behind me, you know, and every now and again, if I was putting the washing away, for example, he'd stand and he'd play with the mouse and I would then get it and wiggle it a little. But, you know, you don't have to, you know, spend hours and hours with them. Essentially, their kind of activity cycle is generally for young kittens, 15 to 20 minutes. If they're a little bit older, I would say 1 year plus, maybe 25 to 30, you know, maybe some 45 minutes, but you don't have to do it for hours. So, you know, you can put all your distractions away, put your phones down, get a toy, engage with them, and let them run through that cycle of play, prey, you know, whatever you want to call it, but let them express that energy. You know, it's good for their mental health, their physical health, and their emotional health to be able to catch and kill and catch and kill. Whether that's, you know, if you don't want it to be your ankles and your hands, then you need to bring in toys. You know, you need to bring in wands, little mice, fishes, whatever it may be. But those behaviors need to be expressed. And if they're not done in a healthy, managed way with you as the guardian helping them, they're going to find a way to do it. So it'll be when you stroke them, they'll turn around and they'll grab your hand. And you know, you're like, oh my God, I was just giving you a stroke. But as far as the cat's concerned, it's like, oh, prey, quick, grab it, you know. So it's about getting involved. You have to support them with those behaviors.

And there's another thing, I don't know if it happens too much in the UK, but when you adopt a young kitten and then you move on to your usual life and work for 8 hours and the cat is alone, so kittens need to be really close to you all the time possible. You know, if you watch when they play among with other cats and their mom, you'll see that they're close together and they are always connecting. So you can do that as much as possible, of course, but you have to be sure that the cat stays as close as possible to you. We had, I worked for 7 years in animal protection and we had several cases of kittens that, you know, maybe blinded kittens or whatever. So what we did was kind of the for a cheeky kind of involvement that you put that piece of cloth around yourself and you put the kitten here.

It's like a puppous.

Yeah. And then you walk around with a kitten, but you know, that made every single kitten that we had adoptable later on because we worked with them to communicate with others because sometimes, you know, they're so afraid. They come to a new house and sometimes they get the chance to be with other cats, which is amazing. That will help you out. Even if a dog, if you have a dog, it will be better than nothing. But then there is a part of, if you decide to have a kitten, make sure that, you know, you have the time to have a kitten. Otherwise, there is a lot of adult cats that, you know, they are always able to learn. You can always correct a mistake that, you know, that it's been made in the past. It will take work, of course, but the cat that you've seen earlier, my black cat, it was an aggressive cat and you saw him. Well, he gets mad sometimes, but he doesn't bite anymore. He's a very— and he, I adopted him already as an adult. So if you don't have the time, make sure you find an adult cat. And if you, if you want a kitten, then make sure that, you know, you keep it as close to you as possible and then have that playful time and have fun with playing with your cat. Because if you don't have fun, the cat also won't be, you know, won't engage with you to play. So find ways to have fun, like, you know, like the long strip that you use. I use it on myself as well, Julianne. And when I sometimes I try to run, I trip on myself. So with to laugh and it's a really fun moment. So try to have fun with your cats.

Yeah, that's really important. I also think exposure, like you said, is really important. So we're talking about kittens, how to set them up for success, you know, expose them as much as you can in a nice safe way to children, to youngsters, to other animals, you know, be mindful of the temperament of the kitten. So even though they are young, they may not have, you know, they may not have fears ingrained in them, behaviour patterns, but they will still have a personality type. You'll have some that will be really friendly, others that will be a little bit more cautious, just like dogs and humans, you know, and children and things. So bear that in mind. But if you can expose them to young children, you know, teach the young children how to engage with the kittens, how to treat them with respect, let them meet with dogs, you know. And when it comes to other cats in the home, just be mindful that because you're really excited to have a new kitten as a new member of the family doesn't mean the existing cats are going to be like that too. So there is— there are a few hints and tips to bear in mind when you're introducing new kittens to existing cats, because like I said, with my two, it took us 6 months for me to help Leo accept and integrate Max into our home. And, you know, I can't just expect now Leo to be almost Max's equal and, and kind of playmate and things because they're different ages. You know, Max is 1, Leo's 4 and a half. So there are times when they are tearing around the house and they're having great fun and there are little black floofs left everywhere. Other times when I do need to intervene because I'm mindful of who needs what. Neo— Leo needs some time out, or Leo needs some quiet space, you know, he's a very reserved type cat. Max is full of beans, let's deal with that. So exposure to other animals, different people, you know, a cat's territory, their world is all defined by their scent. So bring other people in, you know, expose your cat to it, but encourage them. Use positive reinforcement, you know, treats, cuddles, verbal praise, things to support their development in a healthy way that when they are exposed to these things, which for them will be new and potentially a little scary, they actually have the ability to, as Amaya said, feel nurtured and loved and supported with that so that it's a pleasant experience.

Great. And I think, you know, part of this is also, it's so much to go there. We're sort of skirting on because we're sort of time constrained. We're going to talk about the next subject here. But yeah, there's lots more information that you can get from either of us. You know, just contact us through the websites. We'll put that information on or through the social media channels. You'll be able to find how to get in touch if you need more specific advice. Or indeed, look at your vets and see whether they've got some feline behaviorists that they work with, or they may even have an interest themselves. So do take a view on that. But I want to move on to the environment. Okay, I think environment is so important for cats. You know, so many people love these days to have that minimalist house. I don't know how they cope with that because that's not my character. At all. But those, those super people that love a really clean environment with high echoey walls and all the rest of it, I would say there is some great information out there on how to make the environment better and more interactive and much more cat-friendly. So Amaya, what's, what's your biggest tip if you're going to make an environment cat-friendly? Just your first, your, your top tip for that person. We'll try and come up with something different.

Yes. Uh, okay, so my, my thing is to buy— because I am kind of minimalistic. You just nailed it there.

Never.

Uh, you can hear the echo.

Yeah, so, um, What I would do is make sure I started with boxes and things and materials that you can recycle later on, but you learn what your cat actually wants and needs because you have cats that won't, they don't like to climb too much or maybe, so they're different personalities. So what I tend to do, I find with boxes, I put boxes to make sure if they need places to be safeguard or, you know, just watch other people. Um, and then after that, I make sure I buy a really good cut tree, probably if they like to climb, but I really spend money with that. I mean, mine has almost 7 or 8 years and any string hasn't come out, you know, it's a German really good brand and it cost me a lot. But the thing is that it is a good one. They really enjoy it. And it goes up to the ceiling and it's simple. It doesn't have many things around it, but there are other cats that actually like to hide. So if they— maybe you will get one with a castle or something or a box inside if the cat really likes to hide. So buy things consciously and also make sure you put it on the room, especially to the rooms that most people spend their time in. For example, in my case, it's the living room. Otherwise, there's no point to have a room for the cat if you're not going to be there, right? So that will be my top advice in a minimalistic life.

And Juliane, you've written books and all sorts of information about environments for cats, so come on, give us your top tip that you would like to share for making that kitten's home a friendly one.

I echo Amaya, definitely cat, you know, scratching posts, cat trees, scratching pads, whatever it may be. If you don't want your sofa, your doorways, your floors, your carpets scratched, you have to provide them peeps with something. Cardboard scratchers, you know, sisal rope ones, vertical, horizontal, whatever. And we're talking more than a little one in the corner of the front room. You know, it needs to be size and weight appropriate. So that it doesn't kind of balance over. What you have for a kitten isn't going to be good for when they're older. How does it go, Maya?

Like that.

Yeah, I've seen many cats do that. Yeah, we had one for Baby Max as a kitten, and actually within 3 months he'd outgrown it because when he scratched it, it tipped over. So, you know, bear that in mind. Um, I think for me, like, I would recommend a herb garden. So like, you know, litter trays are, are essential, you know, covered or uncovered, depends what the cat prefers. We've got both in our house, but I would say a herb garden. So, you know, it's about giving the kittens, cats existing or new, the opportunity to deal with their emotions. So, you know, a herb garden is when you get a blanket or a towel, you put it down in a quiet space in the home, and you put a good pinch of dried herbs, one on each corner, Amaya, have you got an earthquake or something going on? All I can see is—

it's my, it's my cat playing with the screen. He's like, it's trembling every now and again, you see, and he goes like, um, what was I saying?

Very awake. So the— so a herb garden, you know, we A lot of us are familiar with offering catnip to cats. Now, only about 70% of cats are affected by it, but you can use other remedies. So like valerian root is wonderful. It helps with anxiety. So even if your kitten seems happy and like, you know, chilled out and adapting really well, it will support their emotional state with this new change. So not being with mum anymore, not being with littermates anymore, completely new, new smells. They may be happy-go-lucky, but they will still be adjusting. So when you put down things like chamomile, valerian roots, and like calendula, for example, and a little bit of catnip, you're giving the cat the opportunity to self-soothe effectively. So they can't go to mum and have a cuddle, they can't go to littermates and nestle. Amaya's already mentioned about having them close with you in terms of physical contact. But it's another opportunity for them to grow, for them to evolve, for them to find their own coping mechanism emotionally and mentally with all the change that's going on. So, and I'd see Judy is here. Hello. Thank you so much for putting a link. So the herb gardens that I, that I have, you can also buy from Dr. Judy's store as well. So, you know, each packet comes with 6. Put them down, see, you know, your existing cat will enjoy them just as as much as the new kitten, potentially more so, you know. So the, the rule for gardens is just like litter trays, it's one per cat. And, you know, so to make sure that if you've got two cats, you've got two different mats in different rooms, give them the space to use them. So I, yeah, mine would be, mine would be a herb garden.

So that's— well, before we go there, I mean, Kathleen was asking, potted, fresh cut, or dried?

You could use a mixture, to be honest with you. Different cats will— they will all have different properties. So, you know, valerian root, obviously it's very stinky and very, very smelly as dried. The plant valerian won't be as potent, it won't smell as much. So the healing properties, the active components will all be different for fresh versus dried. I generally go with dried because it's easier in my, in my world, it's easier. You know, I've just got two little plants that I'm trying to grow and tend to, but you know, it's hit and miss at the moment. I've had them for two weeks, but you know, online there is mixed information about plants that are safe. So like lavender, for example, a lot of places say lavender is bad for cats and lavender is toxic. It's only toxic if it's not needed by the body. And I appreciate this a bit sort of self-selection, zoopharmacognosy realm, which I know we're short of time, so I won't get into. But as Brendan said, come and follow me on Naturally Cats and you'll learn more about it. But you know, the cat will do and choose what they need if we give them the chance to do so. So if you're going to have fresh, just be aware that, you know, you can get a good resource online that shows you that they're cat-friendly plants. But at least with dried, there is minimal if no risk because, you know, you let the cat do what they need to with it.

I love that, Julie. You're so feline, you can't have green thumbs. That's like, you know, sorry, that's a very UK joke. Okay, if you've got a green thumb, you're really great at growing plants. That's the thing.

But that's—

we're a few weeks in and they're still looking a bit dodgy, so it's hitting me.

I, I tried, I tried to grow chamomile and it never grew because they were always eating it. They really like chamomile. It was like Damn it, am I that bad growing plants? And one day I said, I just saw the cat.

The thing with fresh plants, the risk that you run is that, you know, if a cat needs some form of fiber, you know, if they're indoor cats particularly, if you're not growing cat grass and the cat needs some form of, you know, an undigestible fiber to shift fur balls or poops, whatever, they will go and access whatever they've got access to. So it could be a plant that isn't generally thought of as being toxic to cats but they may eat it because they need to have that roughage, for example, that fiber. So that's why in my world, in my house, we are very limited with plants, but my boys have access to outdoors, you know. So it's something to bear in mind that if your cats don't have access to either outdoors or to freshly grown cat grass, they may chew on any plant that you have in your home, whether it's considered safe or not. So just bear that in mind.

Yeah, and you know, you're gonna need to get all of the soil conditions right. And you're absolutely right, Kathleen, you know, if you don't you've got that right inside the house, they're not going to necessarily thrive. And sometimes people will actually grow a number of pots in a well-drained area outside and rotate them through. So it's about don't leave them in the cat's environment for so long that they're going to get destroyed by the cat, or, you know, that the soil has become too moist, or that the temperature's too moist and hot for them. So just rotate them through with outdoors and that may help. Yeah, that's great. The only addition I would say with that is don't get fixated by things like catnip and catmint and valerian because they're real junkie sort of type herbs in my opinion for those. There are so many things, you know, people get scared about a little bit of rosemary or a little bit of lavender. They, you know, give them space to get away from it if they want, but if they want to get close, it can be really useful to them to help repel parasites and things like that, to have some exposure to those things. So just take a, take a view as to how they're acting.

You can try chamomile, you can try rose, marigold, any many things.

If you bring it down and let them choose, then they will, you know, they'll show you what they need. Never add to food, in my opinion, with the way we're talking about herbs. Never add to food. But again, another topic really.

Brilliant. And so the other little elements that I would add for me personally is just to say, look, if you're bringing a cat into a new household, if you've had cats before, then to think about what you can do to generate the pheromones within that house to make it a friendly house, because you may not realize it, but it may still smell of your previous cat. If you've got existing cats there are pheromones which help blend those cats together so that they can join in with each other. I would say remember the litter tray, it should always be one more litter tray than you have cats. So if you've got 2 cats, you should have 3 litter trays. Remember, that should be probably at the periphery of the environment because that's where they're going to look at soil marking. And litter tray, what's in it. So the substrate, what have they been used to at the breeder? What have they been used to in the cattery? And making sure if you're going to move substrate, you're going to need to do it slowly. Some cats love earth being in there, which isn't very odor eliminating, and so people want to go straight into how do they get their cats straight onto some sort of clay with odour pellets in them. I try to stay away from those odour pellets. They really drive your cats nuts, and it's a good way of getting your cats to pee elsewhere in the house. Just like, you know, just change the litter tray. Don't— yes, just clean it.

And then a serious point though, peeps, you know, we may, we may not have mentioned this, but, you know, litter trays, if you have odour control or odor products, sprays, pellets, liners, they may in fact disengage your cat from using the litter tray. They may dissuade your cat from using the litter tray, and they may, as Brendan said, start to urinate and defecate in the house. If you've got a stinky litter tray, one, you need to clean it, two, you need to scoop it regularly, and three, the key, you need to look at what they're eating. So we've already mentioned about nutrition and carnivores. You know, we are Raw Pet Medics, so coming back full circle to things, if you've got stinky poops coming out, you've got potentially bad food going in. So have a think about adding some, you know, some healthy whole foods to your cat's diet, and it should improve the poops and things that come out.

Totally.

Look, guys, we're running close. I, I can feel there's some moderator somewhere twitching that we're getting close to the witching hour.

Yeah, I know, we're trying the best we can.

There's so much to So I said to Gwen, bless her, that I would not lead us quite so close to the hour, but I have still managed it. So terrible when we get going. If you love what we talk about, please, yeah, we're going to do this once a month. If you want to review what we've talked about today, you will find the video on the Raw Pet Medics stream as well as Dr. Judy Morgan's stream. It's there, you just need to go into the video files, go back and you'll be able to look at any of those. So today's and also the previous Feline Fridays that we've done pretty much once a month. We're going to be back. If you enjoyed what you've done, please like and follow our page, but also share us with your friends for the next edition. And can you remember the date, guys? What's that?

Let me, let me take a second.

17th of Feb? No, it can't be.

It's 17th.

17th of Feb.

Okay.

Yeah, he remembered again.

Wow, Brendan.

Yeah, I'm on fire. Right, guys, uh, we've loved to see your comments. Thank you so much. Um, please do come and join us if you've got further questions. Type them up there and we'll be answering those. Um, and, uh, Thanks for your company. It's been great.

Yes, it's been great. So many questions, so many things to— yeah, that was amazing. Brilliant.

Thanks guys.

Thanks everyone.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.