Dr. Conor Brady and Nick discuss Dalmatian genetics, deafness, and uric acid metabolism. Dalmatians carry either high or low uric acid genes, which affects kidney stone risk. The 101 Dalmatians movie sparked breeding demand that worsened health problems, and genetic testing plus dietary management can prevent stones.
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Greetings.
Yeah, you see, everybody, keep you guessing. We started to have an argument and we forgot to just say, oh yeah, we've got to press play.
Deb Aston said underneath the Raw Pet Medics post, yeah, I'm calling you out, Deb. And somebody was asking what time do they start at? And she goes, they say 7 PM, but they're usually late. And I was going to comment underneath the post, excuse me, we are always on time and we're deadly today. So yeah, thank God.
I'm really worried. Yeah, is everybody logging in? Yeah, yeah, I don't see anybody coming in. We've got 5 Dalmatian followers. Say hi if you've joined us, because Connor's getting worried.
They're not up on my feed.
No, they're not up on my feed either.
No, I think you're— I think you're— oh, there we go.
1904.
You're just all breaking the times, you guys.
What's going on? Well, you're the— you're the controller. The great controller. Mighty Oz.
The mighty Oz.
Yeah, so guys, I— listen, I just want to— I want to start us off right out of the traps, uh, because we have an awful lot to get through tonight. This a huge topic, Dalmatians, and so we've been putting it off for a bit because it's a huge one, but let's, let's try and do what we can tonight. But before we do, if I could just nod 2 seconds, I got a lovely email to Patreon. So because of you today, I am celebrating my golden retriever's 10th birthday without any health issues. Your willingness to share your knowledge and time along with the Raw Pet Medics, I'm happy today. His half-brother who went the conventional route and is owned by my daughter died exactly one month ago from lung cancer. And they shared the same story and were born on the same day. I employ everything you advise. People ask me how I keep him so active and the first words out of my mouth are to buy your book. And if they help after that, I can share the extras I do with my dog. Thank you again from my soul. Attached is a picture of Nugget relaxing after an early morning hike where he chased deer and some wild turkeys because he can.
Because he can.
And I just thought like, how lovely is that? Because I said to you guys today at lunchtime, this subject is big and so I spent all day preparing for it. And I'm wiping my head here because I'm sweating because I'm feeling sick. But it's too interesting to let go. So I spent all day doing it. And I felt at the end of it, I said, you know, that was a whole day's work I put into this. And you kind of also said as a joke, I need to start getting paid for this, lads. And then about half an hour later, that email comes in. The world has a funny way of working. And it's like, that just makes it all so much more worthwhile. So listen, That came in through Patreon, and we greatly appreciate any support you can give us.
We certainly do.
Patreon.com/rawpetmedics. And we do appreciate any help because it helps us to put in the day to sort these sort of hot topics out. Is there anything you want to mention, guys, before I just give us a tiny introduction into Dalmatians?
Yeah, I think I just want to say a big thank you. We pulled this picture that Christina did the advert for today. And it's, it's one of those great things in the universe, isn't it? When she came across this picture that was available for putting into adverts. So she goes through all the sites and things like that that allow her to do that. And she chose this one picture that you've all seen if you've seen the preamble to this. And it came up of this Dalmatian that was actually raw fed and actually has its own Instagram page. So if you do want to follow it, it's Loki. And thank you to Lauren Francis, whose dog it is, who got in touch, who actually saw it and said hi. So thank you there. And so Loki's on there, but if you want to find Lauren and Loki, The Reactive Dalmatian. You can follow her on Instagram. Be great to go say hi if you have a Dalmatian of your own. They're following their little story, but it's great to— isn't that just great that we find a picture of a dog and it's raw fed?
Yeah, yeah. Maybe they're not such in small numbers anymore, you know. The movement is moving so quickly now that honestly, when you look at the evidence to not raw feed the Dalmatian, I think personally, straight out of the traps is probably a major mistake. But listen, we can get to all that. Nick, you all right? So anything else before you want to—
do you know where they came from, Dalmatians?
I am assuming—
don't say Dalmatia.
Dalmatia is exactly what I was going to say. I'm going to say Dalmatia in Croatia.
Dalmatia in Croatia.
From a breeder down the road.
No, actually, they came Okay, and I'm sure all the, all the Dalmatian people, they came from ancient Egypt. There are hieroglyphs showing spotty dogs in ancient Egypt, over 2,300 years old. So they don't know exactly when they originated, but they were gadding about in a very Dalmatian kind of way. I grew up actually, my first dog was a Dalmatian called Jake. Ah, so that's my, that's my pedigree.
But those kind of gifts, I mean, that could be a cheater.
There was a, there was a spotty dog.
Yeah, I think it's pretty hard to draw a Dalmatian in rock. I think that's it.
You try and do a spot and you'd carve out a great big lump of rock.
Oh, suddenly it turns into a pyramid all over again.
His mate is looking over his shoulder going, I thought you were a sculptor, that looks like a cheetah. I said a spotty dog.
Yeah, it looks like a rotting rhino. I have got so many holes in it.
I can respond with another question. Do you know why Dalmatians are associated with firefighters?
No, that is a good one. I did see it, but I didn't read it.
Yeah, to be honest, it's not much of a factoid, but it is true. They're known for working with firefighters. They're escorts back in the day and firehouse mascots. Dalmatians and horses are so compatible, the dogs were easily trained to run in front of the carriages to help clear a path for the trucks and quickly guide the horses and firefighters to the fires. I thought that was cool. And later on, they make good watchdogs, so they protect a firehouse and its equipment. Fire engines used to be drawn by fast and powerful horses, which were often highly prized items and a tempting target for thieves. So the Dalmatians were also dual role of guard dogs.
I've just got to say, Paul Martina was typing so fast. There's a little bit of— I'm not sure where that comes She was.
Yeah.
Anyway, yeah, bless you, Martina. I know what you meant. Nick thought it was a great story, so we're gonna, you know, let him live in the, uh—
oh, I've lost the other thing that, uh, Dalmatians were famous for is the book The 101 Dalmatians, um, and that was first released in 1956, if you can believe it. But it wasn't until Disney got their hands on it— I'm reading some of these numbers off here— 1961 with the cartoon, and 1996 was the live-action remake. And that created a big problem for Dalmatians because suddenly the breed was the most popular breed on the planet and everybody wanted one. And the second film, 102 Dalmatians, came out in 2000, and an enormous amount of animal rescues dedicated to Dalmatians popped up. And that was a big problem. People got this dog in and, you know, they're great dogs, but, you know, they— like every other dog, you need to know what you're getting. He's going to be a big boy. He might be, you know, he might have his little issues. And suddenly the kennels were mobbed with them. But as a result of the rescue organizations Dalmatian ownership decreased by 90% from 2000 to 2010. By 90%, because that's how many were produced. Isn't that horrible? So you wonder where these genetic issues come from if you have backyard breeders that couldn't give one hoot if your dog is HUA, LUA, genetically defect like ear issues. So these Dalmatians are possibly as well— I mean, there's many issues, but these issues have been bred into Dalmatians, and one of them is quite famous, this purine issue that we'll get to. But their lifespan isn't very impressive, but it's very different between US and UK. Kennel figures show an average lifespan of 9.9 years in the US. Isn't that just— I couldn't believe it's below 10 for a large dog, and 11.55 years in the UK. So I wonder what the difference is there outside of genes. And one of their little issues is interesting. A genetic predisposition for deafness is a serious health problem for Dalmatians. American Dalmatians exhibit it to the point of about 8%, for which there is no possible treatment, compared to just 5% in the UK populations. The deafness was not recognized by early breeders, so the breed was thought to be unintelligent initially. And the Dalmatian Club of America posited that the dog could be considered euthanized rather than placing them if he was deaf. And I thought, bloody hell, what? How could you? Alternative to placement was euthanasia was a good— was humane. Sick. But there is a more famous issue that dallies have anyway, and that is these kidney issues purine type buzzwords we hear, guys. It's not a buzzword, it's a real word. Who wants to start us off on kidneys, uric acid, purine issue in Dalmatians?
Well, should we— I think we should talk about genetics a little bit for a moment, and especially with the deafness, especially with the purine, the HUA, the high uric acid gene, which is a recessive gene. That means that if you have a mix of a dominant low uric acid gene mixed in, then immediately that becomes an asymptomatic carrier, not a sufferer. Okay, and Dr. Scheibel, I think it was, 1973, brought in another breed to backcross the dominant gene, the low uric acid gene, back into the breed line. Obviously created a bit of a furor because that's then, you know, this whole purebred thing, but they worked with the American Kennel Club to effectively create a much more of a hybrid. So every dog up to that point was pretty much recessive gene HUA positive. Now you can genetically test that, Laboclin, there's a few others out there that will do that, just a swab inside the mouth send it off to them. They can check, you know, the breeds if you're thinking of breeding, or indeed if you're, you know, receiving a puppy and you want to check what the risks are of those genetic traits. So do have a look at those genetic tests. They're out there, they're readily available, not super expensive, and it's worth doing.
I've put one onto Patreon, guys, so you can have a look there. It's a Laboclin. It's only £48 in the UK from Laboclin. What you'll get charged, I'm not sure, but that's pretty cheap. And I think really that's where the conversation has to start, because if you've got a low uric acid dog, you don't need to be too worried about your purines, whereas if you've got a high uric acid dog, you do have to be careful with your purines. So I think that's the first chapter of the book, and unless you've done that test, then you're just guessing. Yeah, you're just thinking, I've got a Dally, therefore I've got to be worried about purines, but that may not be the case. And with a high uric acid dog, there are very sensitive dogs and there are less sensitive dogs. And there are some dogs who run at a, you know, a very acidic urine, and there's some dogs who run at a less acidic, slightly more alkaline urine as well. So I think it's really important to set the picture initially. Has your dog got the genes? Yeah, it's a recessive, so you need both in order for it to express itself. And then you've got to find out, okay, what's my my dog's average urine. So what I do is I take 3 urines a day for a week, which sounds like a pain, but you get into the swing of it and you find out what the average pH for the dog. It always becomes more acid during the day and then becomes more alkaline during the day and then more acid at night. So if you just take one sample once a month, you have not got a clue what the average of that curve is. So I think for me, those would be 2 really, really important initial initial factors to do.
Can I give you this? Can I give guys just a breakdown for people that aren't familiar with Dalmatians? This issue is uric acid for Dalmatians. Okay, that's what people are worried about. And if you're HUA, you're high, and if you're LUA, you're low, and you don't want to be high in uric acid. Normally it's broken down appropriately by the body, but Dalmatians have this genetic issue where they don't break uric acid down and it gets transformed to allantoin. The body likes to get rid of that. Easy peasy, peasy, P-E-E-S-Y. But the problem is with Dallies is that they don't break it down. And studies show that at rest, Dallies have some, some Dallies, some, yes, right, you're correct, very good, very good. Yeah, Dallies have about on average, some, some Dallies have 439 units to 55.2 in Mongrels. In other words, they have nearly a tenfold increase in uric acid. And as you can imagine, it's not a good thing. The kidneys step in. Normally the liver is involved when it gets rid of this uric acid, when it has the genetic machinery to do it, but the kidneys do step in and try to get rid of the uric acid, and that's where your problems begin, because then your wee gets higher in uric acid, and the lads can explain more about that, but it's not something you want lots of in your wee-wee. So that's the HUA anyway.
If you compare the high uric acid, that's HUA, versus the low uric acid, the Lua. Yeah, if you compare those, there's a tenfold difference between those. So it sounds like the low uric acid Dalmatian is fairly normal. Would you go with that, that they are essentially a normal dog?
Yeah, I think it was, was it back in 2011 that the UK finally accepted them back into the breed lines? Because there was, yeah, the Lua ones, they're so stuffy about it. But remember, you know, when you've got a recessive gene, and it's a simple recessive, you know, for this transporter protein that effectively acts as a part of the uricase, okay, enzyme that changes uric acid back to allantoin, as you were saying, which is highly soluble. Uric acid isn't so soluble. That level, if it's a recessive gene, Effectively, because of— if you've got 4 puppies and let's say, no, if you've got 40 puppies, okay, 30 of those with a first cross will immediately be made into LUA. That's because of the situation, because they're either gonna have— well, as soon as they've got the first cross, you know, you've got this whole thing with dogs. It's not sort of 4 genes or anything like that. You've got you know, if you've got an LUA, 2 base pairs, and a HUA Dalmatian, you cross them in, all of the puppies will have one from one parent, one from the other. They become LUA. They're not going to show this. If you've got effectively 2 parents, so when they're doing these crosses and they're going down the line and you've got an LUA, HUA, so i.e. a dog which is transporting the HUA gene but isn't seen to be producing uric acid.
Yeah.
Okay, and you cross those, you'll still get 3/4 of the litters. Okay, so 30 out of the 40 will be LUA. There is a risk that a quarter of them, if you're using that mix coming back as HUA sufferers, which is why if you've got that, you've got to make sure that you're still doing those tests to see if they've got those genes within their system.
If you have a look at the, in the, um, uh, Patreon link, uh, I put in the Laboclin link and they do a really nice diagram to, to explain exactly what Bren is saying. Yeah, I like, I like diagrams because then you see this stuff. You can see how the cross is working, and you can see that, you know, mum's this, dad's that, dad's this, mum's that, and all the various things. And then the result is you're either, you're either a kind of negative, you're a carrier, or you're positive for the high uric acid. Okay, so it's really simple test, and I think that's a really great place to start.
Surely the question straight out of the traps will be, okay, don't breed from HUA dogs if they're going to suffer, if they're going to suffer this issue. Do you know what? The L.U.A. dogs apparently, because I don't know, didn't know this until I read it, L.U.A. dogs can stand out a mile to Dalmatian breeders apparently, but I don't know. They are apparently small spots, the smaller spots, lighter in color, softer to the touch, so a few differences. And so the main thing is that they don't have a genetic issue that can cause them ill health. And I'm thinking, why don't they just breed L.U.A. dogs and just then what does the breeder have to provide a test and say this is an early wave pup, you know. Why isn't that the normal? Yeah, I don't get that. So stuffy. It's like, no, this is not the way a Dalmatian should look. Forget all that, you know. It's, it's just—
I think it was because initially they didn't have the right number of spots, then they had blurry spots, and then it started to come back that they slowly got the spots. Some of them have blended spots into each other and they like them to be distinct. And yeah, there's all of that stuff that goes on, isn't there, with, with Dalmatians. It's very much a cosmetic, um, view of life. And I'm afraid that, you know, that's where the English Kennel Club fell into, is more about aesthetics, which is quite classic for them, than it is about health.
Health trumps everything.
Health trumps everything. If your dog can't give birth naturally, like, well, you know, anyway, I think all the people who are keen on the high uric acid dogs, they should live with bladder stones for a year and then reconsider.
So this is— so somebody's already calling you out on this because I'm actually in agreement. There is actually, you know, having crystal urea is not a disease. And I've actually posted something on Facebook that should be going live any moment, which will tell you about the fact that, look, if they've got crystals, if you maintain their fluid throughput so they've got good fluid uptake, they've got good ability to get out and urinate, and they've got good urinary tract health, They can pee crystals, you know. This, this growing of crystals into stones is all about nidus of— have you got a bacterium? Have you got a blood cell? Have you got fragments of cells that are able to grow that crystal into something bigger? So they can pee crystals all you like. That does not mean you need to make massive changes to them unless they've got other diseases. And actually, I think feeding bad food you're at more risk of them having all of those other things than if you're feeding a really healthy diet with plenty of fluids.
It's not just—
I'm saying 50% of Dalmatian breeders— no, owners will be able to cope with that, and I'm being generous, okay? So let's say 50% will, but 50% will be feeding kibble. They will be not exercising the dog particularly well. They will be feeding treats galore. They will be over-vaccinating. They will be giving pesticides on a regular basis. They won't be giving enough fluids to the dogs. And those are the people who are at risk if they have a high uric acid dog. And if all the dogs were low uric acid and really healthy, then they would be able to protect themselves in less than ideal environments. And that would be, that would really be my position. In an ideal world, Ben, I'm with you all the way. Yeah, you can manage these things, but you know, it's not a great start. It just makes life difficult. Yeah.
So guys, look, let's help people out here. For stones, clearly by listening to the two of you, stones are quite a painful thing. You know, you wouldn't be looking forward to them. Can you tell me first of all what the symptoms are if your dog has a stone issue and tell me what the solution is?
Shall I go first? Yeah, just from— look, there's a difference between males and females. For a start, just because of the, literally, the anatomy of the male in the dog. There are two particular points at which stones can cause a problem, and that's at the pelvic flexure. So that's as the urethra, so from the bladder, comes round and back towards the end of the penis, and then there's a bone within the penis. So just at the base of that bone, that's another risk of narrowing.
Vein.
And those are the two areas we look for the stones to get caught. Now, these stones aren't easy to show up on X-ray, so we often will put a dye in to see where the dye stops, or we might even do ultrasound to find those. I've heard people say MRI. I think that's maybe a little over the top. If somebody's got an ultrasound, they should be able to see these. But, you know, I know that a lot of people love to do MRIs out there, but I think realistically ultrasound is a simple option placing a catheter up, you know, flushing with a dye that shows up on X-ray is often another good way of seeing these, pumping air into the bladder to highlight them. There are ways to see that, especially with digital radiography these days, but the symptoms therefore are often of cystitis. So many of you out there will have experienced cystitis or know somebody who has that and seen their dog maybe suffer from that. That might be blood in the urine with them squatting frequently, feeling uncomfortable, straining. Sometimes when the stone actually then moves on and becomes a blockage, that might be straining with no urine. So as soon as that's going, if they've had a history of cystitis and they've got crystals in their urine and you know that, and they suddenly go from that to having cystitis, to then straining and not being able to pass.
That's lethal.
Not wait till the morning, that's ring your vet. Okay, let's at least decompress the bladder so they can draw urine out through a fine needle from the abdomen. Okay, it is possible to do that. That will take away the emergency. But if they rupture their bladder, that's a whole other ball game of seriousness. Okay, so really important, get them seen, don't delay. Okay, speak to you about that. So that's the male dogs particularly. Female dogs tend, because their urethras are larger and they're literally— there's not these curvatures within the urethra for things to get stuck in— they tend to be much more readily able to pass much larger stones. So it's much less likely to be a crisis for a female dog.
Well, the stats on Dalmatians show that it's male Dalmatians dominate the figure. So wonky willies again, there you go.
If the dog has got a stone though, it may have to be removed. Yeah, if when you do use the ultrasound and there's a whacking great, you know, the size of a golf ball.
Have you got my picture?
These things can be big. If they're that big, you may have to remove it because that thing is just, you know, rocking around inside the bladder, irritating the bladder, causing cystitis again and again and again. And, uh, and, and you may have to remove that. So it's, it's ideal when you're starting long-term management of these guys to ensure that the bladder is free of an excess of crystals.
I think. Yeah, Breno's saying, I'm sure we'll get into it, on the note of urinary health, you're saying that these crystals need somewhere to aggregate, so they need a little something. They love an old infection or a little bit of debris, and then boom, you have your problem. So really good urinary health is really important, and we'll get to that. But before we do, guys, should we tackle the kind of elephant in the room, which is purines? When people go to feeding dogs, there's an enormous amount of nutritional advice, and It's fair to say a lot of it is very, very confused. That's from a collie, guys. I don't even know what type of crystal it is. I don't know which one, if it's struvite or if it's urate or what it is. But my God, can you imagine that in a collie?
You wouldn't want that inside you.
Just trying to wee that out.
Well, that's usually when it builds up and builds up in the bladder because the sphincter of the bladder can be quite good at keeping hold of those.
So that is horrible. So this purine issue, guys, is who wants to start us off a little bit on purines? And let's just tackle this because it's clearly the most asked question on our 3 Facebook pages.
It absolutely is. Okay, so purine, I'm going to go to, to start with purine, um, purine foods. They're, uh, as with vitamin C or iron, if you get a range of foods, you get a range of, of nutrients within it. So for purine, this is a particular note for those people who have high uric acid, Dalmatians in particular. There are other breeds actually which we shouldn't neglect, and those other breeds are the Russian Black Terrier, the Bulldog, the Vizsla. I was surprised to see that the large Münsterländer, Spanish Water Dog, recently has been shown to possibly have this mutation, genetic mutation, the Weimaraner, and the Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla as well. So it's not just Dallies. So if you're getting a lot of urate crystals, I think getting a blood test is a great idea. And then if your dog is a high urine producer, you have to help it by producing really dilute urine. And we'll talk about strategies to increase fluid intake, but to avoid high purine foods. And I'm just going to give you the highest of the purine foods here.
Whilst you're finding that, so could I just bring in that blood testing? And I think this would be really great to hear back from some of you guys. There is a blood test, just like for glucose, that you can pinprick the ear and the sticks go into a very similar thing that you can actually just test at home the uric acid levels within your dogs. And it might be worth us just finding out if you would do that test to see how do they vary with various different diets. You know, are you able to control your uric acid levels to a reasonable level? What is the norm? Because that's the downside, is that humans have a norm. Because if for humans this issue causes gout, okay, if they have excess of some of these foods that Nick's going to go through, they'll get risk of gout if they're not drinking enough, if they're on too rich foods. Okay, that's what you end up with. Dalmatians don't tend to get gout. They tend to get this other problems with their stones first. Okay, so bear that in mind. But do look at— there is this blood test can be done at home. Might be worth looking at that even, I believe, is a human version like the glucose monitors that actually stick on, you can use your phone to do. Some people might have seen the Zoe app. Okay. That you'd be able to actually put on their skin and monitor them.
Very cool. That could be a good tip. So what's that? Foods high in purine.
It sounds really good.
Yeah.
So here you go. So for foods, I've put this list onto Patreon, so it's all there for you and it's all relative, but it's basically these are the foods which are 400 micrograms of uric acid per 100 grams. Of food or higher. Okay, so here we go. We've got fish, sardines in oil, we've got calves' liver, we've got mushrooms, we've got sweetbread. Calves' sweetbread is one of the worst. I don't know if anybody's feeding that, but that's one of the highest in purines, so don't feed that. Ox liver, ox spleen, pig's heart, pig's liver, pig's lungs, pig's spleen, sheep's spleen, sprats, smoked tea, drinking tea, you know, English breakfast tea and things. I don't think many people give their dogs that. And brewer's yeast. So there you go, those, those are the highest. And then all the rest, interestingly, all the rest of the meats are in the moderate purine. And there is a range of The moderate is 100 to 400, and even beef is kind of between 120 and 200 or so, depending on the cut. But it depends on the country of origin. It depends on the season as to, you know, the nutrient content. We know that.
That's important.
A lot of people say, can I feed liver? Because a lot of raw feeders are very conscious of the fact they don't feed liver. And good news is that Chicken liver. Chicken liver. Yeah.
243.
243. Yeah.
It's just over halfway in the moderate. So I think a bit of chicken liver twice a week.
That's to be celebrated. That's compared to a terrible thing. Lamb, beef, pig liver are all 450 to 550. So twice what chicken liver is. Liver is such a good nutritional bit that if you're taking lots of care and doing all the bits we're talking about and lowering the purine content by picking the smartest foods and whatnot, a little bit of chicken liver, it's not going to be the end of the world. And it's so deeply nutritious that it might be one you'd pop in there. Same with kidney, you know, pig kidney is 334 and lamb kidney is 218. And you're thinking, okay, now we've got a bit of a kidney option as well. And I think like everyone's going to be agreed that like the organ meats are very high up there, they're to be worried about. And so people will say cut them out of the diet completely and we'd say, oh, hang on, you don't know what diet I'm feeding. Maybe I'm feeding bloody vegan food. Which is going to be very low in purines if you pick the right veg. So yeah, nobody agrees with that, by the way, for the people that aren't listening. Bren is trying to shoot me. But so yeah, the organ meats are high, but it's not a reason to cut them out. It's a reason to be careful if you want to. And monitoring the blood is a cool one. I didn't realize there was a pinprick test for that. So that is so interesting. Purines are so important, like they're the building blocks of your DNA. They're so important that you actually make your own own. So anything you make yourself is something that the body considers critical because it doesn't trust you to give it to them every single day. So it's like crucial bits and pieces, so you can't just cut them out of the dog's diet and expect them to be fine. And so the purine bit is a big hot topic, and a number of raw feeders— one posted on my page saying, I'm just going to throw an oracle question out there in that I'm a raw feeder and I feed offal to my dogs, to my Dalmatians. Some— I'm sure she's careful— and the dogs are perfectly healthy and fine. So there is a big variety out there. And even if your dog gets crystals, not all of them develop these stones, which is interesting. They don't know why that is. And so there's a myriad of issues out there that aren't resolved at all, and people are pulling information from gout, which is similar but it's not the same thing. It's not a genetic issue, you know, it's not— it's a different issue. So, yeah, the purine thing is very interesting, but I think we've kind of covered it. I think there's some veggies are high in purines that you would avoid, like beans, for whatever reason you're feeding them. But generally the veg tend to dominate the lower end of the table. And so what people tend to do when they're feeding daddies is that they increase plant matter to take the edge off the purine content. And listen, if that's what works for you, great. And things—
yeah, there's some really interesting— so they aim to get a— try and get below 80 for the overall— so 80 milligrams per 100 grams of food for the purine level. Levels to call it a low purine diet. So ultimately, you can understand if you've got some foods which are lower than that, you can afford to put a few higher bits in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it will take that average up. But that's a, you know, that's a figure taken pretty much around the humans to try and— yeah, you know, yeah. And that's 80 is quite low, you know, when we've just talked about levels of, you know, the 100. And I think it's really important But yeah, we're risking other problems.
Yeah.
You know, problems with skin health, with, you know, what's going on with the brain, what's going on with heart health, what's happening with their hormones, all sorts of things. You know, the B vitamins. If you're cutting out some of those foods that were high in purines, some of those are actually really high in the B vitamins.
Yeah.
And so if you're not able to supplement those or encourage the bacteria, which can also produce their own nutrients into this mix, then you're going to risk the rest of their health.
There's a number of— first of all, guys, I want to promote a group here called Raw Fed Dalmatians. They're wonderful and they, you know, have more than 10,000 members there. So all the raw-fed Dalmatians are on that group there in the UK and they get to chatting. And those people know more about raw feeding Dalmatians than anybody. So they've seen the little hills and what works and what doesn't work. So if you have a Dalmatian and you're thinking about making the leap, talk to these guys because they had the same fears as you and have probably shook them off by now. So the admins of that group are extremely helpful and I would check out that group Raw Fed Dalmatians on Facebook. They've got all the questions. So they say things like eggs, butter, and cheese, you know, these things are zero purines and who doesn't love eggs and butter? So these are great things to know. You can just lash eggs into your dog. There's no minimum or maximum there you need to worry about. On the carb front, I just want to throw this out there, you know, because I'm not totally against the few carbs. And these dogs, Dalmatians included, have taken tiny steps towards carbohydrate digestion. They've been living beside farmers for 6,000 years. Tiny, tiny steps at the genetic level. And so this is a perfect example where if you were worried about your purine content and you had it focused on your head— raw-fed Dalmatians say below 150, by the way, and so that's a bit more room to play with instead of 80. But if you're worried and you put in 10% slow-to-digest carbs maybe this is the dog to do it. It might not work for you, might not work for you guys, but it's an argument for if you're trying to get this exact level that you think exists, which I haven't found any evidence for. There's loads of tables out there, as Nick has provided some, and Patrick on there. You type in purines, what you'll find is this variation between them. And I think, just like Nick alluded to earlier, I think a difference, it's a nutritional element. And I believe that a calf liver here compared to a calf liver there, I wonder how similar they are. I wonder at age and season and what they're feeding on, how they finished up. I think all that plays into it as well, but I don't have much evidence except nobody really agrees on the exact figures, except that the red meats are a bit higher and the offals particularly high. So that's good, but people know variation as well, so that's just something to bear in mind.
I think Karen's point there, monitoring pH is really, really important because if you're getting really, really low acidic urine, you're going to be more likely to precipitate out the uric acid crystals. So you need to be bumping it the pH score. So I think regular pH testing, until you really know, after a while you'll be able to look at it and see what pH it is. You'll be able to smell it and see what pH it is. You'll be able to know that you fed X the day before and the pH is going to be varying in such and such a way. Or you may find— I had a Dalmatian once, and if he was fed new potatoes, he had a pH of about 7.5. And if he was fed had just regular non-new potatoes, his pH was 8.5. And this was a dog, and all he could eat was lamb and potatoes.
Yeah, yeah, that's nice.
So for me, that— I mean, you've got to remember, with crystal formation, what are the big things? How saturated the solution is.
Okay, totally.
How much debris is in the solution, so other things that are going on, infections, and therefore you know, what the temperature is. So remember what's inside your dog, you know, if it's a higher temperature, you can put more solution into that. You must have known that if you've got hot tea, you can dissolve more sugar than if you've got cold tea.
Are you talking inside the bladder?
Yeah. Yeah. So if the bladder is— if it's inside the bladder, it's going to be warmer in the dog. Okay. As soon as it's out, you can be mistaken to think that there's much more crystals. But if that urine is left on the side, for, you know, even an hour, there's going to be more crystals in that urine that's left out than came out fresh from your dog. That's what I'm talking about with the temperature. So you've got to make sure the urine is tested fresh.
If you're looking at warm, even. Yes.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And then test it while it's warm, guys.
Yeah. And then so the— where did I get to? And then the pH sort of comes into that, that depending on the salts that is there will therefore make, you know, if the pH is acid for some things, it will make those particular molecules more soluble. And if it's more alkali for others, and you've got to work out for you. Now, we've discussed this earlier, and it's in that slightly more pH neutral to alkali is better to dissolve urate crystals. Crystals.
Okay, it's a good place to make struvite crystals.
If you go too much, probably.
If you go too high, bacteria surviving more. So acidic urine is much better if you've got bacterial infections to get rid of those. So you've got to balance all of that. So whether you think, you know, for me, pH sort of comes down that scale of what I'm looking to try and change. I I think the biggest one is how concentrated that solution is and how much you can get it out of the bladder. So if you can give them plenty of fluids, then how much they can get out to urinate, you know, train them, train them a command to go to the loo, okay, so that as soon as you get them out, you can get them to go, you know, get it done, get busy, whatever you like, you know, that's what I do for my girls. They don't have this problem, but it's a very good way of making sure that you can constantly be on it to give them that command to get out.
I have an article there on my website on how to train a dog to wee on command. People often think as a guide dog trainer it's spectacularly impressive, but it's not that, you know, it's just repetition as it is with everything. The watering down the wee is interesting.
So it is, it's almost 1945 though, so we had a question We had a question about some— so that in the Dallí world there's a thing called floating the food. That is to say, you put so much fluid in the food that all the, all the, the meat and the veg and the what have you is floating around in it. And, and that really puts off some dogs and some owners come to that. Ah, shall we jump over to Patreon?
I think we have a number of things to get to on Patreon. We have a number of tips here to go through. And we have questionable advice that I want to talk about.
And so, and we also need to therefore talk about the anal-rectal reflex and why you don't pass feces every time you fart.
Very good.
Because I've got a proposal that has relevance to what we're going to talk about on Patreon.
Interesting, didn't see that coming. I wanted to mention a study. What the dry pet food companies recommend is that the solution to all this, surprise, surprise, is to up the carbohydrate content and drop the protein content of your pet food because of the science. Turns out that that's disastrous, particularly if you've got heart issues. And the studies show, using this particular brand, which I'll mention in Patreon because I'm allowed, that it relates in DCM. Just dropping the protein content is not the smart thing to do. Just adding in a load of carbs is not. So how ridiculous they call it, you know, I can't manage it. Anyway, there's a number of issues. So I just want to mention the dilution thing. I skeptically thought, adding a load of water to food, how is that going to help digestion? And I initially thought that's not a good idea. And so I saw it was promoted to me by somebody I trust, and so I went looking and I found that there's absolutely nothing wrong from a digestion point of view, according to Mayo Clinic and a few other bits and pieces, a few studies, that it doesn't perturb digestion at all. In fact, it probably helps it for a number of different factors that I poorly understand. So actually soaking food in water doesn't perturb digestion, doesn't result in more dysbiosis, fermentation products, all the things that I thought, hmm, it's not a good idea. To Nick's point, yeah, if you're as if your steak is suddenly floating in a bowl of water, I'm not impressed. But if you build me up to a slightly waterier mince, maybe not an issue. But I think there's other ways to get the water in, cleverer ways. My question is to you guys, like, you know, adding a drop of kefir or, you know, a spoon of yogurt, some butter, anything. Dogs are pigs, they'll eat anything. But anything in the liquid or a little light broth, liquidated broth. My question is, can you, by adding more water to the dog's diet, Is that a way of flushing out kidneys? Is that a known thing? Is that a positive thing?
I think it totally is. Totally is. I would go bone broth. I would go bone broth too, you know, either straight bone broth or you add a bit of bone broth to a bowl of water. And my thought would be to give it away from food as well, because if you drink loads of water as a human being, you drink loads of water with your food, you're going to dilute your stomach acid to a certain extent.
That's not true.
Is that not true?
That's exactly what I thought until this morning, and I read and Mayo Clinic are very, very—
what I was just talking about with that reflex is why. So you'll understand if you listen to us on Patreon right now.
Just attempt people over to Patreon. Here's a few more other doozies we're going to talk about. Is cooking good or bad? Fermentation, what effect is that on purines? And the undiscussed role of using seaweed. And a few other numbers of doozies, tips that our Dalmatian owners really need to hear. So come over and check us out on Patreon, guys. And you'll get those tips and tricks.
How to collect a urine sample. Somebody's asked that. I'm going to give you how to collect a urine sample, easy way for collecting from a dog without breaking your back.
Cool. That was a great one, guys. I love this.
Brilliant.
It's great.
Take care.
See ya.
See ya.
