So times life is just tripe

Here we are again. We are the Raw Pet Medics and we do this every week because we love it. And I'm here with Dr. Brendan Clark and Dr. Conor Brady, and we talk about nutrition, we talk about life, we talk about death, we talk about everything in between. And we are supported by our Patreon members, to whom we are very, very grateful. Uh, you can find us on Patreon, you just go to Patreon, put in Raw Pet Medics Or you can follow the link, which usually goes below when I say these things. But basically the easiest thing is you go to, you go to Patreon and you just give us the cost of a cup of coffee every month to help us to pay Pete, our podcast guy, who puts out all our podcasts on every podcast medium you can possibly think of. Also, a big thank you to our YouTube followers. Please like and subscribe and all that stuff. Because it helps the algorithms, whatever they are. Gentlemen, how are you?

Very good. Yeah, very good. Tipping away. I can't think of anything exciting I'm doing. I was just saying at the start of the podcast, not very exciting for you guys, but I dyed my favorite hat, the hat I bought on the guy's farm. You remember in— Will Harris?

Will Harris.

That's it.

Yes. The famous, the really famous guy.

I think he's famous. I used jet black, jet black, and there was nothing else in there. I put in a hoodie as well because I mean, it said just use one item. Look, it went gray. How does jet black go gray? I'm just so annoyed.

Because it's a synthetic material and it wouldn't hold the dye as well as cotton, I would suggest.

Probably, yeah. Actually worked quite well on my hoodie, actually. So maybe my hoodie just sucked all the good stuff. Anyway, that's been the most exciting thing that's happened to me in the last 7 days.

Dyeing a hoodie is the most exciting thing.

Yeah, what about you, Grant? What's going on?

I have been down to Lewes in East Sussex. We had a conference for the British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons, of which I am president for one more year, that final year of my term. So just handing that across, it went really well. There was some great stuff. I was so pleased. I don't know whether they just pick up that I just keep talking about sustainable agriculture and, you know, that you all of this stuff because this year they did do a whole raft of people talking about agri-homeopathy. So how you treat the pasture with various remedies to improve, one, the microbiome within the land, two, to change the mineral uptake of the plants and therefore the health of the animals that are eating on it and helping to effectively restore land that has been damaged by monoculture for so many years.

Wow. How's the plant bit work? Explain the plant bit. Homeopathy on plants— what's that?

Well, it's the same as any system, you know. It's not some mystical thing. You give, uh, a— effectively an instruction to any living cell, uh, on what their issue is, their disease, their disease, and you are effectively helping that cell overcome that disease. And you can look at where it's struggling to take certain minerals up, or you can look at where it's having problems with certain fungus, rust, or anything like that. You can look at and you can literally run those symptoms through a repertory very similarly. She was giving some great instruction on how you look at. So we talked about that mycelium being almost like the neural network of the wood. So she said what they actually do is that they flip the plant upside down and that gives you effectively your anatomy of looking at understanding the roots and the root hairs and the tips and things that are going on with that is all of the neural network and that side of things. Your stem is your circulation, your leaves are effectively your lungs and respiration. Side of things. And so she was just giving us some tricks to how you can repertorize the ailments of your plants using the human—

oh, that's awesome! And then how do you deliver the treatment? In liquid, obviously.

Yeah, just, yeah, literally water it on, spray it on, water out at night. Must be at night. Apparently there is some, some crucial things of pop it into the water at and water them at night makes a big difference for some reason.

Studies must have been done on this.

So whether it's because that's when they're all in respiratory mode rather than photosynthesis mode, I don't know, but that's, that's what they're doing. And so yeah, she says loads of studies now, they've stopped collating them, there's just so much going on that they are just sort of like, so she travels around the world doing things. You know, we were talking about vines and the mealybugs in South Africa. She does stuff like that. She literally goes out and she will look at how she can improve the things. So get this little free one out there for anybody who's working in a vineyard who is spraying the bejesus to try and keep the weeds from between the vines, okay, then just treat all of that land with Nux vomica. She said, that is the first start point, Nux vomica, probably follow it up with some sulfur and then start looking at what you're left with. But she says, half the time it's because you have soaked that land in so much toxic stuff that they just— the plants are struggling with their own immune systems to keep down all of the other stuff that's going on.

So interesting to make it think the way you said it, to flip the plant upside down and think of that as the brain and the neurons and stuff. And that's so interesting to think that we've got similar systems going on and that's how you would apply your homeopathic knowledge to it. There is loads of studies on this because studying plants is cheap and easy and quick. And they don't give out. So the studies you'd expect— give out—

there's a whole ethics committee on— hug a tree.

Yeah, but there's loads of oodles and noodles of studies here. Tomato plants. I mean, everyone's looking for a cheap, quick, effective way to produce these diseases.

Do you know what? So back— so the first studies that she came across and the writings were back in 1860, um, by a guy who went out to Argentina and they were struggling with potato blight. And so he was doing loads of work on treating potato blight out in Argentina.

Oh, cool. That's so cool.

And the whole placebo thing, because a lot of kind of the scientific community will say, oh, it can't work because there's a placebo effect. You give any sentient creature a sugar pill and they're going to get better. If they're human, then it's obvious how. But if an owner gives a sugar pill to a tablet, so the story goes from our cynical colleagues, then the owner's behavior will be more expectant. The dog may pick up on that and they may get better, which I think is pretty tenuous. But that's what they'd say. But with plants, as far as we know, That is completely out the window. Although I think some of the people who are practicing agrohomeopathy would say your intention when you actually apply these remedies is probably key to it. I mean, Goethe was, you know, Goethe back in the day, and he was a contemporary of— when was Goethe around? I don't know. 1850 or so, perhaps. He was— he even back at that stage said that the observer influences the experiment, which was only really proven when they came into the physics of, um, kind of quantum theory. Quantum, yeah, yeah.

The camera, the camera on or off. Yes, it's insane.

Yes.

Yes, tell us, can you remember, can you remember how that study went? I can't, I'll butcher it.

I can't, it's, it's the, the, the, uh, the electron. Now Fiona is going to be watching this and she's going to be, you guys are idiots.

Yeah, yeah, I present this.

Come on, Max.

When you, when you look at an electron, it will flip from being, it's not in its normal state, to either being a a waveform, or no, maybe photons. I don't know, particle or a wave.

Particle or a wave.

Yeah, it will differentiate into a particle or a wave when observed, but when it's not looking, it goes back to doing what it does.

They have the equivalent of— I'm going to butcher this now— but they have the equivalent of some sort of like photon or some sort of paper like you would for a camera, and they spat these, got a particles through a crack, through a little crack in the wall. And whatever way they did it, when the camera was on, like a little CCTV camera, it would be like a kind of a haywire splatter of particles. And when the camera wasn't on, it was in thin lines. And they pretend when they look through the camera, I just— I'm butchering this. I actually presented on this bloody study last year in San Diego. And actually, San Diego, I think it's coming up this now. And yeah, it's so interesting though, but Why would particles behave differently if there was a CCTV camera on them or not? And even if there was no one looking at the camera, the camera simply be on or off, they behave differently, or someone was looking at the particles or not. That is insane. What is that? How could you know that in the 1800s? How could you know that?

Yeah, well, it's kind of intuition, is it intuitive science and what have you, which is very, very frowned upon these days. I heard of a study, right? And what they did is they had a cat next to a heater, and the heater was on a random on or off switch, right? And what they found was, was when they left the heater in the room, just for a comparison, when the, when the heater was in the room on its own, it was completely random. Yeah, they could measure it, you know, random, random, random, random, random. But when the cat was in the room, it was less random, and it was on more than it was off to keep kitty warm. No, I kid you.

No way.

Yeah. And there's another experiment, right? And what they did is they, uh, uh, that's right. So they, they had, uh, they took some chicks from, from the, uh, from the hen and they put them into one side of the, of a, of a very nice cage, I hope. And in the other, they had a model of a hen with a robot that was making random moves around the pen next to where the chicks were. And when the chicks were not there, you had completely random movement by this robot, little tiny robot machine. But when the chicks were there, who were all crowding up going, "Mummy, mummy, mummy," the random computer was closer to the chicks more often than it was in the rest of the pen. It's a study I've heard of.

If you want to get your daughters, Conor, understanding this and getting really interested in this at a very young age, you can start reading them these books.

Oh, it's Philip Pullman's Northern Lights.

Yeah, because that is all about Is there intention in particles? You know, what is consciousness? There's all stuff set to a nice sweet story. Not so sweet, actually. There's some violent bits. But anyway, it's all done, it's all done in a, um, a very, um, child-friendly manner.

Oh, that is very interesting.

I'll tell you what, why don't we— should get a physicist or maybe somebody who is in the nuclear physics industry, Fiona, to, to, to just come on and we can just talk about physics for 10 minutes.

She would enjoy, she would enjoy undressing us on that subject. Uh, she would have great merriment. Yes.

I, I think that would be fun. And a lot of people go, well, what's that got to do with nutrition? And directly, nothing. But indirectly, absolutely everything, because everything's made out of particles. I think we could have some very interesting conversations.

Can I just say, actually, I should really qualify. This is a very factual program. That is a fiction book. The point of it was to make you think outside the box. That's the point. So the depth of it is to think about.

Yeah, check this out. If people want to get a taste for these studies, I have a free— there's a thing up on my website, drconorbrady.com.

Oh, here we go.

Oh no, give me a break here. Actually, no, I haven't got this one. Now I've just put it on the website and it's not up there.

Is it Nick's favorite? Is it Nick's favorite?

Yeah, you know, that's putting rude terminology on my names, on my brand names. But that art study, that piece, that presentation went through some of the cool studies on what animals can perceive and what we can perceive and what you can perceive from very far away. Even when a camera is on you, you know if somebody's looking through the camera or not more often than not. That is incredible. University of Nottingham, Edinburgh, they've all looked at that. The CIA. A person can press a button when they feel they're being watched through the camera. And so the researcher who can be in a different room miles away will look at them on the TV screen and then look away and the person will feel it and press the button. That is nuts.

And who's the child looking over your shoulder?

Which child is this now? I don't get it. Child of Pride?

Oh, Sixth Sense.

Oh yes. Okay.

A couple of things while we're, while we're not on topic. And I think we're allowed to be not on topic today.

Yeah.

Um, a couple of things. Now, number one is I have heard, and if there is anybody with SAS or other special forces connections, please say, but I believe that they train these guys, if they are approaching somebody from behind, they are trained to not think about the guy they're just about to assault, shall we say.

Yeah. Interesting.

They are trained to do that, to think about, I don't know, what they're going to have for tea or Manchester United or whoever. They are trained to do that. I believe that's the case. If that's not the case, then please let me know, anybody. Yeah. Answers on a postcard.

Interesting.

So, And the other thing was I was doing, I was lecturing maybe 20 years ago in Portugal and it was, I will come to the point. And my translator, lovely, lovely, lovely chap. And we were doing kind of not simultaneous, but like, I'll give a sentence, you give a sentence type translation. And this guy, because we would go out and have coffee and then have lunch and what have you, he was a really high in in a kind of a karate-like martial art. Okay. And for their final exam, for their final, you know, super duper black belt, there was only one test, right? And what they had to do is they had to kneel, lower their head, and there would be a guy above them with a whacking great stick. And he, over, let's say, over a half-hour period, was going to bring down this stick on the back of their neck. And they had to perceive that, and they were obviously not looking, etc., etc., and they had to perceive that and get out of the way at the moment the stick was dropped and not a moment before.

Oh, wee!

How cool is that?

That's nuts.

How cool is that? And that was it. So it was a 2-second exam which took half an hour.

Yeah, but isn't that like a pain in the neck to me?

You're lowering the tone.

Yeah, that is unbelievable. It is very hard to believe until you start looking at this resonance stuff and you see what people can do on a small distance and what plants, how they react when, you know, people are raising their voices, when different types of music are being played to them, they'll turn away. You know, they like classical, they turn away from death metal. But even if you are harming If you're farming something in a different room, plants will react to that electromagnetically. Like, it's just, it's just, it's crazy. Guys, let's get into tripe, okay? Listen, I have something staggering I want to get out, okay? Because then you guys are gonna talk tripe about tripe. And you guys love tripe more than I do. I fell out of love with tripe when someone just told me tripe, it was the cheapest part of the animal and breeders would grab it and they'd put it in on top of their cornflakes or whatever they fed dogs back in the day. And the dogs bloomed and they thought, isn't tripe an elixir? And as I always say, You know, meat is an elixir for a meat eater. But anyway, you guys can talk me around as you are slowly doing on fermented vegetables. But here's the thing I just learned about cows. We all talk about like the fact that, you know, cows get almost all their energy from the fats that the bacteria produce. Okay.

Fatty acids.

The fatty acids. That's right. So they farm on this belly, this enormous tripe, which could be like 150 liters. Isn't that right? It's something in— totally 25% of their body. Weight, something enormous. And so it houses this horrible food substrate, grass, very tough, low protein, hardly any fat, pretty poor food source. And they eat volumes of it and then they ferment it in their guts and they, and they keep the acids and the heat nice and right and they swallow. No, they swallow. Do you know how much, how many liters of saliva a cow produces per day? I already told you about 100 to 150 liters.

Oh, 100 to 150 liters.

Yeah, even 100 to 150 liters of spit. That's unbelievable. And they swallow that and they make this soup and the mat, the fiber mat in the middle, and the bacteria love it. First interesting thing I learned was it's not just bacteria in there. Did you know that bacteria can digest cellulose, bits of cellulose, which are like the— if you were to think of a wall, that'd be the building bricks, the cellulose, again, the building blocks of the plant skeletons. And a lot, some bacteria can digest some of that, not a lot. And they can digest when the plant cell has been broken up by the cow, they get in there. Okay, that's great for bacteria. Fungi are 10% of that biomass. Okay. And it's only fungi that produce the lignins that can digest the lignin, which is like the cement between the bricks. It's the fungi that break down the— yeah. So the reason the cow has to keep bringing up the food balls and chop it down is because the bacteria can't do it themselves. They do that to facilitate the bacteria. The yeast don't give a damn. They're just rotting away at the lignin, at the cement, and they're the only animals in the world that can do it. I thought, that's the first thing. Very interesting. Second thing, we know that they farm bacteria and the bacteria produce these beautiful short-chain fatty acids and whatever, butyrate and all these cool things. And we talk about that and isn't it great? But what we don't talk about is the fact that that's where the cow gets her energy, but it's not where she gets her protein from. So where she gets her protein from, unbelievably, 50 to 70% of the protein that she absorbs is dead bacteria. So I never really thought about that. So that was the first thing I thought. Yeah. So the bacteria, they farm them and then they die off and they've had their little life and then the cow digests them in the small intestines and brings them in. And that's a wonderful protein source. It's animal protein en masse. So you have huge amounts of protein. But there's a second thing she does, which you guys are probably aware of, but I didn't know. And that is the bacteria ferment the fiber mat in the tripe, in this belly that we're talking about. And they produce gas and this gas is full of nitrogen, ammonia, ammonia gas. And so the cow lets out some of that, but also that ammonia passes through the tripe wall and the cow has learned to recycle that ammonia, pull the nitrogen out of it in the liver, I suppose, create it, turn into urea, which almost every other mammal on the planet would then pass out in urine. But what the cow does is she recycles the urea and she passes the urea back through the saliva. It's one of the reasons she produces so much saliva and diffuses the urea through the tripe wall, the only animal on the planet that can do it. So she feeds the bacteria because bacteria need protein too, and grass is very low protein. So the cow has a dual way of absorbing protein, all the dead animals that she's farming in her guts, and then she can produce more of them. So she's got this on and off toggle when fiber is poor and when fiber is— or when plant forage is rich, and they can— she can toggle it on and off. So she'll always have lots of amount of protein. Isn't that amazing? She farms them intricately by feeding them urea that we would just wee out on the ground. How interesting is that?

That is amazing. They are the most—

what a machine.

They are the most underestimated, um, underestimated phenomena on the planet. Yeah, because, uh, within the regenerative, um, farming community, they, you know, we're talking monocultures versus, uh, raising cattle on pasture. And what the cow does is she is a grass management system, a fertilizer and urine distributor, and a plow all in the same unit.

Oh yeah, and a plow. Yeah, would have been heavy.

And that is just— isn't that spectacular? Also, there are things in saliva, in bovine saliva, which stimulate grass growth. Yeah, so they actually have this conversation with the grass, and by having cattle or sheep and or any ruminant grazing that grass, there is this ongoing beautiful symbiosis between the two.

I thought you were going to hold the lion cub up then and start singing Lion King.

That's what it is. Do you remember, was it Was it the farmer Angus down in South Africa that told us he took over this devastated land, monocrop agriculture, you know, just crap has been devastated. And he said the soil is completely depleted of everything useful, you know, carbon anyway, but also all the other bits and pieces. But he separated out the minerals. And so the cow will go looking for certain plants and she goes, I wish I had a bit more of those plants, you know, that'd be magnesium. So she goes and she eats the magnesium that Farmer Angus has put out. Then she poos out cow pat that's richer in magnesium. And then the plants that weren't there will grow because, ah, there's the magnesium —so they can turn over the soil quicker than we can, just spraying it with all these nitrogen and phosphorus. Ridiculous. You know, over and over. She takes what's missing in the soil, pulls it back in and gets that thing going again. Isn't that— they are, they are. It's so unfair that they pick that animal of all animals to incriminate for this nonsense when actually it's the one that created the soils in the first place and really explains a hell of a lot of our grasslands. It's crazy.

And we saw that in Farmer Will, what's his name? Will Harris. Will Harris, that's right. He was doing the same. Remember he had those 6 troughs side by side? Yeah. As did Farmer Angus. Yeah, I know it's fascinating. And I mean, for me, the beauty of it is it is ridiculously simple. You just have 6 troughs side by side. One was magnesium, the other's carbon, the other one's copper, la la la la la. And the cow chooses herself. Yeah. And I think the reason that modern agriculture doesn't like that system is because it's really so simple that you can't market it.

Yeah. And there is a really important point here as well. Yeah. For all of the vegetarians and vegans out there, love you to bits. Here we go. But could I just say, you aren't anywhere near as good as a cow to do all of that. You have nowhere in your gut that can function as these two boys I've just talked about. Okay, so I would just say leave it to those that can and then let us just cope with the fact that that's what we see. Because otherwise you may end up with a deficiency. You're going to have to supplement yourself at some point if you're thinking you're just going to eat grass. Oh, blimey. You're really not going to be able to do that.

Okay, are you getting controversial in your old age?

But it is, it is ridiculous when people say, look at a cow, look how much protein a cow can put on. It's like, well, do you have any idea how a cow works? You know, it's like, it's just, it's ridiculous to suggest that we can do the same thing. We don't, we can't protein recycle like that cow does, as I just explained. And then it also explains that it's such a delicate system. So she keeps the pH at about 6.2 to 6.6. 6.7. It likes that. The bugs like that at a certain temperature. And then these CAFOs where 95% of the beef for the US comes from, these concentrated animal feedlot operations, they feed them grain because it's the cheapest calorie on the planet and it actually puts a marbling on the meat, which is like a toxifying effect on the cow. So what grain does is it will produce fatty acids quite quickly. But what happens is it also produces bacteria that love grain. So that shifts the cow because they are used to bacteria that produce, that digest fiber, which is done slowly and just produces fatty acids. When you give them loads of bones and leftover bread and all the other junk from the food industry— M&Ms, I've heard. M&Ms and whatnot. Yeah. You will farm bacteria that like sugar and that break down, that produce lots of amylase, and a byproduct of that is lactic acid. And so this is what lowers the pH of the cow's digestive system and she starts to get acidosis. So, but we don't give a damn because we just got to get her to a year and then we'll slaughter her and she'll be as heavy as possible because she's putting down so much fat, which is a lot of it is a protection mechanism. And so they've all their drugs and stuff to use. But a lot of the things we like E. coli and salmonella, you know, the reason E. coli grows because they love acid environments. And so we have engineered the E. coli that normally our guts could handle most E. coli until concentrated animal feedlots came along. And evolved these types of E. coli that are acid-loving. And now we struggle because they can survive in acid juices. It means when we eat them, they pass through our digestive system, which is a normal part of our protection, and it poisons us. Did you know a study 20 years old, a study shows that if you just switch a cow from carbohydrate grain to hay, you reduce the toxic E. coli load by 1,000-fold. 7 days on hay and they can't even do that for the cow. It's crazy.

Just for Debbie Williams out there, yeah, we're really talking about ruminants here rather than just cows, okay? So there are a number of other species that can do very similar things.

As mentioned earlier, Debbie. Yes, yes, yes. Keep up with the conversation. Yes. No, we love you, really. What I was going to say was, Conor, you were talking about saliva earlier, and you've just mentioned pH. The thing that I remember from college is that they require that humongous Niagara Falls-like volume of saliva because it is alkaline and helps to balance the stomach pH, and they use the saliva as an acidity regulator. That's what the urea will do, because that's alkaline. And the, the, the urea would be, yeah, a major part of that. Yeah, for sure. Just remember, just, um, explain to me again, so urea in the saliva, how does that fit in with protein?

You've got to feed the bacteria, want protein too, and grasses, they want the, they want nitrogen to make the protein. Yeah, yeah, they want their protein too. And grass is a poor source of it. So they grab as much as they can when they're farming them. But if you give them more protein, you'll grow more. So the more fibrous your food is, you might need more bacteria to break it down. And so you'll feed them more urea. And in grass-rich times, you'll have more urea in our wee because there's no need to farm any more of them. You know, she controls on such a delicate feedback loop. I can't imagine she's thinking about it too much now, to be honest. There's not a whole lot going through her head as she's motoring through the field.

She's like, this is a complex biochemical pathway that I've got to perform right now. Will you stop? Maybe that's what it is. Maybe why on the outside they just don't want you bothering them is because they're super busy on the inside, worrying about the toggling of all of those biochemical reactions.

Don't distract me. Yeah, yeah, totally. I'm just converting, you know, whatever to—

If you start distracting cows today, it's no good.

I missed it again. I'm going to have to go right back to the beginning. Where's the— where's the— Where are the test tubes? Where's me Bunsen burner? It's amazing. It just shows you that, that, that human, human chemistry is so basic. We have to use test tubes, Bunsen burners, and the like. And cows just do it in the middle of a field when it's minus 10 degrees. They're just getting on with chemistry. How amazing is that?

Yeah, it's nuts. And we just think they're cows.

We just think they're stupid cows. Well, I do. But we don't. But many people do. They go, oh, they're just cows. Yeah, massive respect. We need to get RPM badges. Respect. I thought you were going to say we need to get a cow on.

Yeah, let's get a cow on. I know a couple.

Don't follow that conversation any further. Guys, I have found, I'm going to, I'm actually going to stay on topic here. I found a paper, a 2025 paper and I'll give you the reference now. It's in the journal Animals, and it's from January 2025, and it's titled Current Evidence on Raw Meat Diets in Pets: A Natural Symbol, Comma, But a Nutritional Controversy. Okay. And they mention raw food a lot because that's what they're talking about. And indirectly, they talk about tripe. So that's why I'm going to mention it now. and it's by Liu et al. Current evidence on raw meat diets in pets: a natural symbol but a nutritional controversy. And they are still in 2025, you know, and this is 15 years down the line from the papers which began to say, oh, there's no evidence. And there has been a stack of evidence. In the last 15 years, I think we can all agree. Yeah. And they say owners report health improvements, but these, these lack scientific support. Nutritional experts and public health bodies have concerns regarding contamination, imbalances, and sustainability. This review examines the potential benefits and risks of raw meat diets for cats and dogs. I think that is a very fine example of they are staring down the barrel of overwhelming evidence that there is benefit, but industry is leaning on them to say, oh, there's not enough evidence. What do you think?

Well, there's, there's a couple of things that also get to me about some of the more recent studies on raw versus high processed that's coming out as well. And there's been on the back of somebody's PhD in Liverpool. There's been, I think, 3 or 4 papers actually published out of that, and I was a little bit gobsmacked because talking about the risks, they've heightened the risks within this because they've isolated certain resistant bacteria, some of which are naturally resistant, and it's not like these are methicillin-resistant. It's not like these are superbugs. It's not like they're multi-resistant in that sense. They are just isolating the fact that there are some bugs that are naturally resistant to very first-line antibiotics. Some of the things that, you know, you wouldn't use in the case of a gut upset. There's no Staph aureus or anything like that coming out of, of these. But when I looked through the data and you have to go back to the PhD to find out what raw food they are holding up. It literally is whole quail, culled, not gutted, with feather and everything, is one of them. It's pure tripe from a well-known company, just minced tripe. And the third company is tripe and beef mix. And unfortunately, the companies there, I know do have grain-finished animals, you know, in the production of their tripe. And it's really unfortunate that they will be more prone to having certain bacteria within that. And sure, they found it in the microbiome, in the feces coming out the back end. There's a lot of assumptions then made about the fact that therefore these dogs are going to spread it to the children and the immune compromised, and it's deadly. There's some assumptions about that, but I was a bit disappointed that that's, you know, not all raw is equal. And I think they overegg, you know, they've pushed a button to try and say how damaging it could possibly be when actually when you look at it, they've chosen some really poor evidence of, you know, fairly contaminated materials to feed them, above which at no point could I see anywhere that they had been through an ethics committee, of that they had seen that in these food materials there were such bugs, and they were happily feeding them to dogs within the experiment. Yeah, uh, so, you know, there's a whole load of ethics that needs to be questioned about that, but there we go. That's just my opinion. Sorry, I went a bit off track there, Nick. I was just— No, no, no, no.

I think it's on track that they're the studies they report and then they lean heavily on that and then they do a number of reviews. Let's do the quarterly review of dry v raw and then people can talk about all the studies supporting dry food and the dangers of raw. But when you look into those studies, half of the studies, if they list 10, half of the studies will be review studies. Freeman for 2014, the review in 2019, the review in 2025, as Nick just highlighted. And it's reviews by, you know, cable manufacturing kind of leaning very pro that industry writing these reviews. And so you get this warm blanket of science, you know, but it's not actually reviews though.

They're just reviews and then they get around what they're actually looking at and then they start to incorporate in the review opinion pieces.

Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, that sneaks in there as more science and more references loaded up because people don't check the references. They just want to see that the references are there. They're too busy. You know what I mean? I've got half an hour. I've been dealing with angry clients and sick dogs all day. I'm not going to sit there and go through your references. I'm going to assume that the Vet Times has done its due diligence before they start telling people that vegan dogs live longer. I'm just going to assume that they haven't gone through that study for me, you know? And that's the problem. People don't go through the study. People aren't going through the study on ChatGPT. Like they don't realize that, you know, everything— YouTube, Facebook, ChatGPT— will please you. It'll give you what you want to watch because it wants you on there as much as possible. So ChatGPT will— if you are pro this or anti that, it'll give you more of that when it interprets a study very quickly. So you have to ask it for both sides. So when somebody said to me recently, um, you know, the bird flu thing came up again, and I said, like we said back at the time, there's no cats dying of this that we know of. The latest thing that came out of the FDA has massive questions about it. And I said, if you've got any other questions about it, check out that review piece by somebody else. And they just pop up a piece by the AVMA from 3 years ago talking about how dangerous bird flu is for cats. And I said, like, listen, just put that piece into ChatGPT and say, give me the pros to what this person is saying and the cons. Take a study that someone's written and say, review this study for me, which everybody's doing. And it'll review them. It'll tell you the amazing benefits of that study, particularly if it was for a blockbuster drug, because all the journals get in line and say, yeah, this is fab, this is fab. And so ChatGPT, which doesn't think for itself, takes the general feeling out there from Google and spits it out at you and tells you this is why this is an amazing thing. But if you say, give me the criticisms to Ozempic or whatever the blockbuster statins, what's the criticisms of those studies that people would say? That's what you want. And do it for raw fed studies too. You know, and then you get the truth. So when they start analyzing a certain raw dog food, you know, from Portugal, which was another one, and, you know, if I said it was a terrible quality raw dog food, yeah, don't feed that, that company should be shut down. But I can show you a study where 30 out of 30 dry foods failed for atrocious bacteria readings as well in the Lebanon. And would the UK manufacturers be happy enough me citing that Lebanon study to you all the time? No, and I don't. Well, you know, they do. And it's just this— it's an insidious use of science. So that review, yeah, I was aware of that, Nick. They did actually list some of the studies. They glanced over the studies that were produced in Nature Frontiers and a few others. They just gave— that came in on a line. Oh, and they also said it's good for skin, skin, ear, and gut conditions. I was like, whoa, you just glanced over the biggest publications that we have, you know, to get to the negative, you know.

So what these guys are doing is they're reading a whole load of papers and then putting those to one side and vomiting out their opinion.

That's exactly what they do. That's exactly how they get paid.

Which is, well, you know, opinions like noses, everybody has one. Yeah, that's it.

That's the clean version. Yeah, that's the clean version. Yeah. And also people don't understand, there's a lot of credibility, like they don't understand how veterinary departments work or how all science departments work, how all college departments work. They have to produce papers. They've got to churn them out. You're paid by companies, okay, they use university departments to produce studies for them and they pay them a lot of money. And so this is the answer we're looking for, guys. Now, it's not obviously that obvious, but if you were, let's say, a very staunch vegan and you had very serious views on feeding cats and dogs vegan food, you know, the pro-veg lobby will find you and they will fund your science and then you'll churn out oodles of surveys and they'll get published. And before you're 40, you could be a professor. Now, wouldn't that be cock of the walk, walking around being called a professor? And that is, that is extremely powerful to someone because now your ego and your mortgage and your child's bloody education and everything is now tied up in a message that 10 years ago you could get away with and today you couldn't present it to any serious science.

I'm sure, I'm sure there is a knight in shining armor out there who is That's a daughter you're talking about doing exactly that. Yeah, they're all the vegan cat and dog food lobby. Yeah.

Is there not? I think they all talk tripe and everybody falls for it. And you get— it's very hard to do a— to do a back— to turn around. Because if, you know, the difference between us, I feel, and, you know, uh, those, uh, I would call them white coats with guns for hire, is that we don't get paid anything. So, you know, we just— we just say stuff, and if it's not right, we go, oh shit, I made a mistake.

I don't Oh God, what have you said this week?

Oh, I did do one 3 weeks ago. So embarrassing. The very next day, it's like, sorry, sorry. I can't remember what it was. I'll do it another time. But when you've hitched your wagon to a thing that you've been really pushing hard, it's very hard. It takes a special type of person to turn around and go, I've made a mistake there and that was wrong. And now I'm going to close down my laboratory of my 20 people working for me and all those papers I wrote, they're not so— they're not so hot. Very hard for someone to do that. You know, most people don't— can't do it. They don't change their opinion too easy, even though they're scientists, you know?

Yeah. Okay. So, guys, just in— just in closing, I'm going to say that I've got 1, 2, 3 or 4 studies that I would like to just very briefly go through in Patreon. But before that, and, um, uh, Bren, can you remember the dates for the Mallorca Raw Feeding Veterinary Society conference? 17th, 18th of October in Mallorca. Guys, just go to the Raw Feeding Veterinary Society, RFVS.info page, and have a look there. And if you fancy a, a few days in the sun with a whole load of raw feeding fanatics who like to have a very good time as well, then please make an excuse to your husband, wife, lover, whoever it might be, dogs, that you're not going to be around for that weekend and jump on a plane for then. I'm sure you can get an Airbnb at a more than reasonable price. I think it's going to be a really special—

Oh, the lineup is spectacular.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And Fiona, who was saying, this is Fiona She has done an incredible job. She has produced a lineup of speakers which I absolutely couldn't believe, including Peter Tobias and Rita Hogan, friend of the show, both the friends of the show, friend of the show. Yeah, yeah. So it's a, it's basically a who's who of the raw food world.

She's coming, friend of the show.

They're all going to be there in Mallorca. So even if you're not interested in raw food, it's a great excuse to afford it.

There's one guy who's missing out and I'm not sure why, but he just—

Oh yeah, we're going to talk about him a lot. I really want to be there.

I can't, I'd be landing and taking off again. That would not be advisable.

Yeah, you'd have major FOMO if you did that. I have major FOMO.

I cannot believe I'm missing that this year. Also, I adore Mallorca.

I love it.

Loved at the back of that island. I've driven around it many, many times.

I think we should sneakily ship his wife and kids out and then send him a picture as he lands in Ireland.

Yeah, I tried that.

Send a picture of them waving from Mallorca. Yeah, I tried that.

I said I'd send her, I said, I'll send you to Mallorca, not the same place I'm staying obviously because you have the kids with her. Didn't work, didn't work. I got her at a bad time.

But yeah, yeah. Conor won't be there, but Brendan and I are going to be doing a little bit, a few bits and pieces, but some presentation. We're going to be there to chat and have a laugh with everybody. So it should be, it should be a really, really good meeting, I think. So if you can even vaguely come along, please do. It will be fantastic. Right guys, let's jump over onto Patreon and just have a look at a few papers so that we vaguely look like scientists.

Yeah, and of course what we might look for in— where would a good tripe come from, I think, is the other. Yeah, let's give people a little bit of a—

yeah, actually, before we jump, before we jump over, I'm just here. No, no, that's a, that's a crucial point. The UK and Ireland are bringing in mega farms. You've got about 1,000 mega farms in the UK, aka CAFOs, and so most of them are poultry, you know, chicken, duck, turkey, but also cattle and lamb, you know, a lot of— there will be a lot of at least grain fish because grass is still a cheap calorie for us to put out with all the rain and so on that we get. And so, but the thing is, that is a question for— if people are wondering, tripe is where they house bacteria, and, you know, how that cow is reared is important. And so as ever, the best quality— you look at, make sure the company you're buying your food from is doing its due diligence, make sure it's, you know, clean, and it shouldn't smell bad. Okay, tripe smells bad, but it shouldn't smell like bad meat. And getting to know that company and whatnot is your number one protection from picking up some bogey, some bogey meats. So yeah, anyway, I'll get Ben's tip after that, but I just wanted to highlight that.

And highlight, you know, let's, let's— little clue here. Okay. Not all ruminants produce cow pats. Okay. And it will be dependent upon why they're feeding them other stuff than fibrous grass in order to try and boost bits of them that they want to market rather than actually allowing them to.

So maybe we're not going to be talking about science. We're going to be talking about poo. Yeah. Well, that's equal quality. But also we're going to be talking tripe because we're going to be looking at how to, how to source good tripe. Yeah. Okay. So let's do that over at Patreon.

Patreon. Yeah. Sounds good, guys. Um, look, thoughts with everybody. Um, it's been great to see you all. Um, and we will, uh, see you over on Patreon if you want to know how to join us over there. All you need to do is go to patreon.com/rawpetmedics, and for the price of a cup of tea, coffee, any other beverage you can think of, you can maybe even one of these. This is really nice, by the way. And you can join us over on Raw Pet Medics for a little bit more live.

I'm just going to jump in there for one second, guys. Lars says, any effects of Beauvoir on tripe. So in a nutshell, I bet there is, but I don't know. Let's go to the other side. We'll have a quick look before we go to Patreon. So Loz, come and join us on the Patreon show, and we will look at that. I promise I'm going to do that in the couple of minutes we need to just swap over the carriages on this particular train.

Wonderful. See you later, guys.

See you guys.

See you later.