The Forever Dog LIFE review

Here we are, boys. Is everybody well?

Nice warm day there for you guys.

Muggy, sweaty, rain, damp.

I love it.

You had to choose moist on a Tuesday evening.

Oh yeah, that's a bit early in the day. Um, yeah, do you— what would you prefer if you had to choose, a really hot day or a really cold day? Forget rain.

I would say, I would say they both have their benefits, but that's a bit too diplomatic. So I prefer really cold. I'd prefer really cold than really hot.

Really?

I love really hot.

I like really dry. So it doesn't matter whether it's hot or cold.

This is going out. We want to really thank all our Patreon people for supporting us. That's fantastic. And you can find us on, and you can find us easily on, on, on Patreon by just putting in Raw Pet Medics, and you can find us on any of your podcast things that you use, whatever it might be, Spotify or Apple or la la la la la. So we're there, we're with you all the time, and that's prob— maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing, but we are around all the time. Gentlemen, are you well?

Ready to go.

Okay, amazing, amazing, amazing.

Ready indeed.

I'm just gonna— before Conor shows his, I'm just gonna show you I have done my homework. Conor, have you done your homework?

Nick is holding up his book with 3 posters in it. I'm holding up my book with multiple posters. And not just ordinary posters for those on podcast.

And I'm holding mine up with no posters whatsoever because some of us don't want to spoil our books with sticky bits of paper.

Love heart-shaped posters as well. Oh, very nice. My kids are going to kill me.

Colin, have you stolen your daughter's love heart?

They're going to kill me. Yeah, I use them all.

I have done, I've done for the stuff that I like, and for the stuff that I want to question—

warning flags—

it's, yes, in almost red.

That is very nice. So Nick has multiple colors of post-its for those listening on podcast, but, uh, Fran once again has none.

So he's done his homework.

Yeah, I imagine Fran's gonna say, I'm green and I'm not wasting paper. Oh, very good. It's a carbon thing. I imagine Fran's not gonna be starting off this conversation today. You just go ahead, guys, while I furiously read up. Where did you want to start, Brad? You wanted to start—

I think we just start page 5. I think, look, there's a lot of introductions. I think we've got to stay. This is a glorious feast for the eyes. It is a photographic marvel, a wondrous recipe book type thing. This is fit for the coffee table. I think if it's nothing else, it will pique your guests' interest in nutrition and health. So I think it should be everybody's coffee table go-to. It should be in every practice just hanging around for people to pick up whilst they're waiting to see their clinician. And yeah, it's wondrous. But I think other than that, there's There's a little bit of introduction, I think, a reasoning why the book came about as a follow-on, obviously a little bit about the oldest dog in the world and, you know, Bobby, and just talking about testing, etc. But I think really page 5, just understanding why this book is there, you know, what life is there for, and the fact that this isn't there for just for dogs. That actually for cat owners out there asking, can they read this? Will it mean anything to them? I think just taking the reasons that LIFE is written on the front cover, which is L for lifestyle, I for ideal microbiome. I think there's a little bit of play there. They're trying to work out how to get microbiome in. LM doesn't quite go. LI and then F for food and food diversity, which I think we should touch on in our chat today. Okay. An E for environment and stress, which really realistically is epigenetics. I mean, if they'd got somebody who knew what they were writing about— no, sorry, sorry, guys, I'm just— they might have just gone E for epigenetics.

Yeah, but that's just—

it's a little complex. It's a little complex for some people. I'm just going to do another little overview. This is not just a recipe book, but guys, don't just think, oh, I don't need a recipe book, therefore I won't do it. Won't go there. There's the, the initial section is very much about the, the, the deep backstory, the philosophy of food and what have you. And I think that's essential reading for all raw feeders. And we're not getting paid to promote this book. We just like this book. And then they talk about recipes. Great. And we can, we can discuss some recipes or just the principles behind following recipes if you fancy. And then at the end, it's really amazing. They're talking about products that you can get rid of potentially toxic products in your home and in your garden in order to, to, to have a less toxic environment for your dogs and your cats. So there's a lot to it, and I think we universally love it. I'm just going to be— do a big shout out as a designer. My Ellie is a designer, and I showed it to her, and she normally can run a coach and horses through most books and most design, but this book is impeccable. I cannot imagine how many hours they must have put in, the whole team— Rodney, Karen, you know, everybody, Steve Brown, absolutely everybody. You know, hats off. There must be 10,000 hours in this book. It is a testament to thoroughness, to broad thinking, to thinking outside the box, to really going into some incredible detail with food. If you're not really into that kind of science detail, it's beautiful pictures. Enjoy it for that. If you're a nerd, a geek like us three, there's a lot to get your teeth into as well. So it can appeal to absolutely everybody. How did you find it, Conor?

Yeah, on the science bit of it, they do say at the start, look, there's plenty of studies and science, and they shift a lot of that to their website. And that is the way to do it. Because if you're going to come out with a beautiful kind of coffee table type thing to inspire, you don't want to bog it down with a whole heap of scientific jargon and references. Nobody cares, you know, nobody wants that. And so they have shifted that smartly to their website.

So Forever Dog, you mean like another publication?

There you go. Yeah. But you want to hide behind the references. These guys make it so it's still, it's, they still, you still, it still reeks of some scientific prowess when they say some bits and pieces. And when they get into the herb section, it's just so interesting. And they go on about dandelions and you go, bloody hell, I love dandelions. So you'll know that there is plenty of science behind that. But if you need it, you can go to their website. So I like that. So it kept the book much lighter. So it was easier to flick as opposed to getting stuck into some bits and pieces.

And the other reason that they went for that is so that they could update the references as the science comes out. And I thought that was really smart. So actually the reference section is going to grow and it's going to move with the science, which is the way science should be used. It's really, really clever. So well done, guys. I did though, there is a QR code somewhere in there and I did have a go and it wasn't connecting. So that's probably your Wi-Fi, Nick.

Nothing connects in your house.

Yeah, nothing connects in DP Books.

If you're watching this and you can see me, you know that that's not right. Yeah, if you can hear me on podcast, you know that Brady is totally—

that's okay, that's incorrect.

And you know it's from the recording that he sent.

Exactly, exactly. Well, oh, interesting. But it might be because it's too early. Maybe they're gonna make that live as soon as the book becomes live.

So come on, Nick. So, so you've got all your tabs in, which page is that on?

Um, that's, uh, I'd have to look through each tab. I was going to go through this.

This is why I love it when people say they've gone through the book and put the tabs in the right pages, then they want to talk about something and they can't remember which page it's on.

No, this is— I think, I think that, I think that, uh, favors somebody that doesn't have any Post-its. I think once you've actually read the book thoroughly and have Post-its sequentially is, uh, the order of the day. I got nervous there because you just flip I skipped past about 55 of my Post-its. And so just after that bit about life where they explain that the name of the book, which by the way is called A Forever Dog Life, have we mentioned that? By Dr. Karen Shaw Becker and Rodney Yip. And but it'll be in the summary notes for anybody listening. But the page 6 there, I like the mention of the blue zone pet. So the blue zone bit is about the longest living humans on the planet. And there's a— blue zones have been, have been selected, not that many of them, 7, 8, 9 of them around the world, uh, where the longest living people live. And, uh, you know, it's not in our cities and, uh, the West really in general, although there is one I think in the US somewhere.

But generally, Melinda, in California where the Seventh-day Adventists live, they have a very long life.

Oh, interesting.

Which they claim is because they're all vegetarian.

They're vegetarian.

but none of them drink or smoke either. And they live very community orientated. So there is other factors involved.

Yeah, no doubt. So I like that blue zone bit. And to reference it on to pets is good. And that's why they're talking about biome and whatnot. That's a big part of the blue zone people and the richness of their diet. And even the guy, the Zoe guy in the UK, you know, eat 30 different foods. It's all based on Tim Spector. It's all the same thing. It's about keeping that species richness. As rich as possible for as long as possible. And so I did like that idea. And there's plenty of evidence in humans to say that's a good idea, studies of people in nursing homes and all sorts of things. And so I like that little reference. So that was my first little post that I thought, blue zone pet, that's clever. That's a clever thing to bring into it because I can't imagine getting a blue zone pet on a chemically preserved ultra-processed product. That is not what blue zone humans eat. So I thought that was an interesting first reference. So I enjoyed that. But anyway, that was my first post-it.

There we go. This is what my first red flag was actually. Brendan was in the, uh, in the QR zone. So, um, Karen and Rodney, if you're watching this, just check, please just check the, uh, the QR. And if it's not on the back page, on page 15— 154, the QR doesn't work when I do it with an iPhone.

But I'm going to try and do it. Brad's trying to do it. Please, God, get through. That's what Brad's thinking. He's such a child. He's such a child.

Yeah.

What page? I found it here. I'll just check with my own phone and look at that.

It works.

Did it work? I haven't done it. I'm not that sort of technical person. I wouldn't even know. I don't think I've ever used a QR code in my life.

Oh my Seriously.

Yeah, I sat down to order some food at an airport one time. There's a QR code on the table and had to call for help. Please just give me a sandwich and a beer.

Oh, Nick, Nick, it goes straight through to Perella Recipes.

Okay, let me try again.

Do you know what? Do you know what? It's made my year, mate.

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't working.

So from a point of view of, do you know what? Of course these things will glitch on certain days. That's the whole issue with websites and the internet. And I think they've done an excellent job. And I think the fact that Nick's first red flag is at page 154 says a lot.

It's a testament.

150 pages before he's even found anything that even then doesn't glitch.

It's just his phone.

He needs an upgrade.

If Rodney or Cameron are watching this, they're probably thinking, yes.

I'm on your side. I'm on your side, guys.

It's plain sailing after that. Anyway, Nick is probably furiously testing his phone there. Brent, do you want to try?

I'm trying to hear you.

It's all right. He's probably got a block on his— his wife's blocked it. It's under the child lock.

You can't access those sites. Keeps him up at night testing all the QR codes he finds in the Guardian or whatever lefty rag he reads.

Okay. Just, I don't want to go too, too deep here, but so this is my experience. When I just use the iPhone camera, which has worked for every QR code I've found so far, it doesn't go through. But when I use the Google camera for the, for the QR code, it does. So there you go. So my usual QR code scanner doesn't work, but my Google, which I don't— I try and avoid Google for my own reasons, it does. So just to quantify that.

Good, good.

Do you know what else I like? Just on the next page, I like the way on page 13 they did 12 and 13, most adulterated foods. And I loved the little image along the bottom where, you know, we kind of get used to people say, is freeze-dried good? Is canned good? Is air-dried good? Baked? Semi-moist. What do these things mean? And people, you know, we take it for granted because we've seen the word so many times, but he just does a lovely— I say, I keep on saying he, Karen's involved in all this as well— but they use a lovely 10-step kind of with homemade at the first step, dark green, whole ingredients, and then, you know, complete raw as step 9, and then 8 and 7, gently cooked, freeze-dried, dehydrated, more manufacturing being used. And they move into the orange and reds, canned, air-dried, baked, dried, and the last one is semi-moist, and I like that. Semi-moist is in the darkest, reddest, most ultra-processed, nastiest adulterated foods, and people don't understand that, that when they look at their kibble and it's moist, that stuff doesn't dry, it doesn't dry out, and so you have to wonder why. You leave a piece of bread on the ground, it turns into a cracker, you know, most things get covered in mold and will dry out, but Semi-moist food has some of the most noxious stuff in it. Kibble that's a little bit squishy, pet treats that are a little bit squishy, they have anti-desiccants in there, things that you would put in to stop your bloody— keep your runners fresh, you know, those little— it's probably not that toxic, I'm sure, but things that keep stuff semi-moist, you want to highly avoid. That is really bad stuff. So semi-moist kibble is the worst of it. And they'll always say fresh, near raw, semi-moist kibble. Semi-moist kibble is the worst. So I love that little graph. It makes it so easy for people to understand whereabouts on the scale their food might be. So those little touches are lovely, you know.

And you know what, on the other side, on the other side, they're also trying to be as inclusive as possible and trying to bring in those people that still are feeding themselves, let alone their pets, some ultra-processed foods and not trying to sort of scare them off into the wilderness of, oh, you're really bad people. You know, look, Actually, no, they're just like 99% of the population that actually have been fed this food for, you know, yeah, and I'm talking in the Western world, 99% of the population that have been fed this line of, look, that cereal that you're putting in your kid's bowl, okay, is what everybody has for breakfast. Yeah, not that that's an ultra-processed food, you know, that, that, that ready meal that you're serving up you know, oh, it's got all these wholesome ingredients in, but that's ultra-processed food, often with lots of additives to make it smooth and palatable and everything else. You know, so we're led a line, you know, we're in a generation now of people, you know, that are used to those foods being ready for them. You know, the McDonald's generation, we should really call them because, you know, they've been so used to the burger joints being on the corner. And that you can pop in and get something to eat. You know, the fact that it's full of saturated fats with acrylamides and sugars and, you know, in savory foods, sugars hidden in, you know, to make them, you know, trans fats, all of that stuff that's hidden in there to make it just taste nice, but that you'll eat more, that you become addicted. You know, that, that's, that's what we're used to, and, and they've not realized that that's what our pets have started to fall into. And actually, there is another way. And I think even if you just give them 25% more of a more wholesome diet, you can see health improvements. Okay, not ideal health, but you can get to that point. That starts you on a journey, doesn't it? That starts you down a line of— it's only when you then get a health crisis that you truly go, whoa, 'Actually, do you know what? I'm going to take a deep dive into something a bit healthier. Yeah, I'm gonna stop smoking. I'm gonna stop drinking. I'm gonna, you know, start eating well.' You know, those are the sort of health crises. But otherwise, it is a journey. It's a sort of slow realization, a trip that you've got to take. And I think it's great that it helps people on those first steps.

Yeah, you know, amazing, guys. I'm going to take you to page 21. Which where they talk about saltwater produce soak.

That's mine, that was my next one. Look at that, we're both great minds think alike, my friend.

Great minds think alike. And I think you're backwards, Conor, just for when you're holding up the book. Okay, yeah, there you go, there you go. So this is a, it's a really great way to get some really nasty farmyard chemicals off your produce. Okay, I'll give you some more detail in a second. But what it said to me is that I fanatically wash the veg before I use it. I don't know whether Ellie does or not, but I only give it 5 to 10 seconds under streaming water. And it's obvious that that is not enough to get all the nasties off veggies. Okay, if it's organic, it's probably got a lot less badness in it, but it does need a soak because of any bacteria, that, you know, bacterial contamination. But if it's not organic, there are all sorts of nasties. Have a listen to this. This is unbelievable. While the FDA recommends you wash leafy vegetables with a diluted bleach solution— can you believe they're actually thinking that? We prefer a saltwater soak. Totally, Karen Rodney, bang on, bang on. Washing cabbage for 20 minutes in a 10% saltwater solution as opposed to vinegar or plain water is more effective at removing common pesticides, including chlorpyrifos, DDT— DDT, for goodness' sake, why is that in there?— cypermethrin. DDT's around. It's still around.

Yeah.

Cypermethrin and chlorothalonil. I don't know what that is, but it sounds terrible. So actually, you've got to wet— you've got to soak anything but the organic stuff for 20 minutes in salt water, guys. I'm stunned.

The thing is that actually, do you know what, um, with the recent outbreak in the UK of E. coli in lettuce— okay, so let's get this right— in salad, guys, not in salad. Okay, not in eggs, not in fish, not in, um, milk, not in dairy, but in salad.

Okay, stand away from that lettuce.

Yeah, you know what, um, even if it's organic you know, the options are if you soak it through saline, you're really probably going to just help just remove some of that excess issues within those foods. I think saline is really useful. We might have to put a little red marker on how much salt we're taking in because we're probably not taking it all.

You can always rinse it after. You can always rinse it after.

But I would say there is some great, you know, on page 20, you know, they do talk about actually the difference between conventional fruit and veg and the sort of organic, and actually just the levels of nutrients that can be packed in if you don't have all of those artificial fertilizers and ingredients going in to try and preserve those. That actually they usually are slower growing, slightly more challenged environmentally, therefore they put out much more polyphenols and nutrients into their fruits, etc., to protect them. So just, just, you know, it's no longer— does organic taste better? It's not about taste. Okay, well, there's a lot of taste tests that say you can't tell the difference, but actually I think there's other issues here. It's about what are the hidden toxins and what are the beneficial nutrients that you're going to find in those foods, which are actually the improvements in organic.

Most of those, the chemicals that make it taste good are actually good for you. Yeah, the bitters, the tannins, the polyphenols and what have you. And just a testament to their graphics person, the graphics for the polyphenol level in the conventional fruit and veg versus the polyphenol level in the organic is really lovely.

Well, while we're talking about beautiful, beautiful graphics, and this is going to be lost to the podcasters, you just have to take our, take our word for it. When you get to the mushroom section on 42, 43. When you look at those images, they're the images I've seen, with mushrooms coming out of the bowl. So they're not just sitting on top as I would have done, you know, crop and paste. Like, there's been a lot of effort. Look how beautiful that page is. And with the information on it, the benefits, okay, and the— but also how to prepare them in your kitchen, which is the bit that most people are missing. How much of this do I give? When do I give it? 2 or 3 pages of those beautiful mushrooms there. And that they end with some cool little tips about how you increase the vitamin D levels in your mushrooms, which I'm not going to tell you because you can buy the book. Don't throw out the stems, cook your mushrooms, that kind of stuff. I mean, that is a flawless— like, it's just such beautiful information. So yeah, speaking of images, my God, they just did not spare a penny on their images. And anyway, go on. Actually, the very next section is on eggs, and that is easily the most extensive section on eggs I've ever read in my entire life. 4 or 5 pages of just the best info on eggs. One thing, my only little kind of query in the whole book really was on the egg section, which the whole thing I agree and learned so much just reading the eggs and different types of eggs, beautiful images again. But one thing that popped up here was that like, you know, eggs are highly digestible, particularly when you lightly cook them. When you lightly cook them, they get even more digestible. Okay. And then they liken it to the digestibility of fish and beef and chicken. And dogs can digest an awful lot of that meat, but not all of it. And I would just point out there that it's not about 100% digestibility. While you can digest virtually all of the protein in an egg if you lightly cook it and give it to a dog, in other words, all the protein that goes into the dog, very little of it will come out if the dog is in a protein need, which is pretty amazing. But that's not that case with beef and chicken. But I'd point out that a lot of the indigestible stuff in meat is actually really good stuff for the animal. That is your collagen and fibers, that it's carnivore fiber. And so while we are rightly concerned about the amount of fiber in the pet's diet, and there are studies to show we use different types of plant fibers, it can work for pets in different situations, that's true. But I think as time goes on, we're thinking about carnivore fiber too, and that's your collagen. And they talk about gelatin down the way, which I want to highlight because it's so cool. But that's pure collagen as well. So that stuff is harder to digest, and studies show in cats, the more collagen they get, the less GI issues they get. So collagen is carnivore fiber. So while your dog can't digest those meat ingredients, that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can't digest all plants, it doesn't mean it's not good for you, you know. So, but a brilliant egg section. I learned so much, so hats off on that one as well.

I was interested, you know, I don't know how they cook their scrambled eggs over the other side of the pond, but I definitely would say, I definitely would say that I think they've got fried and scrambled the wrong way around.

Scrambled is going to be a lower temperature than fried, isn't it?

I'm going to have to cook some scrambled eggs for them while we're over in the States to say this is actually good.

I think they're scrambled. I think their scrambled egg looks like scrambled egg. Am I missing something? I think that looks like scrambled egg.

It's just where it is on the scale.

Oh, where it is on the scale. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Guys, I'm going to say they need some cooking lessons. I'm going to take you to page 30 because it's a fascinating thing which I never knew. I've been studying nutrition 25, 30 years, and they say that if you chop your broccoli and then you leave it, you can increase the sulforaphane by up to 2.8 times. And sulforaphane is the anti-cancer element. So basically, you chop it and leave it which is the opposite of what you would instinctively do. You just leave it for 90 minutes and you've almost tripled the anti-cancer effect. How fabulous is that? That's amazing. And that is something that you can do. Basically, you just— at the beginning of the whole process, you do your broccoli first before you even think about it. And if you only do it only 20, 30, 40 minutes, you've increased the sulforaphane.

That's crazy. Little wins, little wins. I love it. Um, do you want me to go a lot of little wins in this?

Whatever. Yeah, yeah, it's, um, yeah, crazy.

The, uh, the, the, the next one, actually, there's, uh, Medication Marbles. Obviously everything they do is beautiful, so I don't want to keep saying that, but I'm holding up for those on podcast a little image of like a little puffed up— looks like a Burger Bite. Does anybody remember those crisps, Burger Bites? They're the greatest crisps ever. I bet you Nick never had them, but they're just, they're just incredible. They're nice. Every normal person has had Burger Bites.

Are you the processed food correspondent?

Well, I mean, I know my way around a packet of crisps, all right, and so does my dog, I don't mind telling you. But those Burger Bites— oh, not Burger Bites, sorry Rodney— those, what are they, Medication Marvels, are gorgeous. So I was always wondering, how do they make that? There's little pills sticking out of a little round puffed up thingamajiggy, for those on podcast, and, but the ingredients are so simple. So an eggshell, shelled, and one egg, sorry, it's a mixture of egg and gelatin. And what they do is, in short, I don't wanna give away any tips here, but they whisk up the egg and the gelatin together and you can cook those little dollops and they turn into little puff balls. And so you can make these little dollops and you make a series of these squishy little cool egg-flavored treats, which are just pure protein and gelatin. And then you can sneak your little treat and make like, and I thought the variations that I instantly thought, oh, the variations, but they've already thought of that. And then on the next page is the different variations. It's like, bloody hell, that is such a simple, cool way to make training treats. Like, if I've— people are always asking when you're raw feeding, like, what treats do you give the dog? You can't be walking around with a pocket full of chicken breasts. And so making simple dried meat treats is easy enough, but when you chop meat real small, it can fall apart because it's just cooked meat. And so dehydrating meat, and they tell you how to dehydrate meat a number of times in the book to do it and keep stuff together, but it's still hard with a lump of meat and you try to cut it and it breaks apart. So this idea of a little drop that just turns up into a little puffball, a wonderful training treat. They sneak their meds into it, but I'm just thinking that from a trainer point of view, that's just awesome, just fantastic.

Okay, I mean, I'm gonna have a little rant. Even an owner of an elderly Labrador who's is, you know, starting to just get a bit stiff, and then you put in your herbal supplement in a capsule, and, you know, you think, oh, she'll polish it off.

Yeah.

And she's managed to clean the bowl.

Yeah.

Within an inch of its life. And just right beside it is the little herbal supplement, you know, in a perfectly, absolutely licked but dry form.

Yeah. Screw you, Dad. I'm not eating that. Yeah.

Amazing, guys. I'm just going to draw your attention to page 64. When they're talking about sprouting. I think sprouting is something that generally people miss out. They just don't use sprouting. They tell you how— Karen and Rodney tell you how to sprout, which is dead easy. Yeah, but they tell you how to go through that. We don't use enough sprouts. I've just come back from a detox fair by Better Way, by the World Council for Health, and they mentioned numerous of the doctors who came, who, who stood up and talked about how to, uh, detox if you've had adverse reactions from some of the recent, uh, medical interventions. And broccoli sprouts— you get broccoli seeds, you sprout them— they are head and shoulders above all the other sprouts when it comes to that kind of detox. That and, uh, dandelion are massive for detox from recent, uh, recent interventions. So I'm going to say well done, well done, Karen and Rodney, because they're just bringing sprouts because they're just fantastic.

Let's just be clear, this is not as in Brussels sprouts, not Brussels sprouts, as in seeds.

Yeah, yeah.

On the next page, I think how to grow the sprouts, uh, you know, sprout your seeds is, is actually a wonderful thing to to help people understand what to do, how to achieve that. Absolutely.

Yeah, I am— I try to cheat, guys, with the sprouting. So I actually bought the two sprouting jars and my seeds didn't sprout. I must be the only person that can't make kefir sprouts. But I, I love them on a salad. They're so tasty and they are so deeply nutritious. I mean, how they are more nutritious than the actual seed they just sprouted out of is just a wonder of nature, but they are. And so, uh, I tried to make them myself and I couldn't, so I thought I would cheat. And so for the benefit of me and everyone in the family, I thought I would buy dried Brussels spinach sprouts. And let me tell you, that is the nastiest taste I've ever had in my mouth. It's like concentrated broccoli, you know, like it is the worst taste of broccoli I've ever had in my life. I mean, I tried half a teaspoon and then down to a quarter of a teaspoon. I'm down to about maybe a tip of a teaspoon because I'm so mean, I have to eat them all. In a smoothie and then the whole thing tastes of broccoli. It's disgusting. So I urge you to eat them with water, grow them yourself, buy this book and learn how to sprout, which I need to do. I need to follow some how-tos. I mean, that looks like the easiest thing to do. The fact that I need this book, that I need bloody Rodney Habib to tell me how to do the sprouting, bothers me. I know you're listening, Habib. I know you're listening.

I'm going to be really disappointed if, you know, by the end of the summer you haven't on that windowsill right beside you, got a load of sprouting jars with seed sprouts.

Broccoli seed, mate, that's where you start. Broccoli seed.

I'm going to dedicate them to Rodney every year.

I quite like the mung beans and things like that when you get them to start sprouting.

I think you can't go wrong. Just anything that you can sprout, sprout it, you know, and they give a beautiful list of things to look at. So you don't even need to think about it. You just go to the supermarket, you know, with a photo on your phone of this page and you say, right, what can we get? Or you can order this stuff online, or you can just go to the local health food shop, for example, and they have them there. It's brilliant.

That's brilliant.

I'm gonna take you to— Conor, the actual thing that you should start with is cress. There is nothing easier.

I can grow cress.

Can you?

Yeah, yeah. Cress heads.

Yeah, in the little eggshells.

The eggshells. That was it. Yeah, so we did. They just thought I was an amazing gardener. We also grew strawberries last year, and one of them grew back. It's a strawberry plant there. Everything else in that— but one of them survived and growing strawberries again. So that was a minor success. But I also planted a lot of carrots and beetroots, but I planted them way too close together. So despite leaving them for the whole season, my carrots were about that long, my beetroots were about the size of a marble. And it's like, why aren't you growing? I thought one would just grow and bully the others and just become a big beetroot. But it's like they all know they're beside each other, so they just stop growing. Isn't it amazing? I heard another fact that's got nothing to do with this book, but while we're talking about plants knowing who's beside each other, Did you know that one tree will pass nutrients to a sapling it's related to and won't pass nutrients to saplings not related to? Can you believe that?

Oh, I didn't know about the relation thing, but I did know that they will look after each other.

Yeah, they can radio tag the nutrients in one tree and they'll pass it to saplings they're related to and grow them as quick as they can. And they won't— they will— well, when I say they don't, I don't know if that's true, but I certainly know that they favor saplings that they're they're related to. I mean, I mean, that's another leap from my beetroots knowing who's beside them. But isn't it amazing? We just think that they're done so and they just keep growing, but it's just not the case at all.

It's brilliant. There's a couple of books you want to look at for that. One is called Entangled Lives by Merlin Sheldrake, which is a stunning book. Entangled Lives. And the other one is The Secret Life of Trees by some German researcher.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Amazing, right? I'm going to take you to page— there isn't a page number— 79, 78, 76, 70, 76. Page 76, he says, and he is holding up a spotlight on organ meats. Yeah, within the section which is called Jerkies and Dehydrated Snacks. I'm a real big fan of these, and they're talking about liver, and they give you all the good stuff in liver and heart and kidneys and fresh tripe and brain. Difficult to get brain in the UK because of the BSE thing, but in the States I guess you can, you can get it there. But dehydrating these things is a, is a wonderful thing. The dogs love it. You're retaining all the goodness there. So, and they tell you there's an idiot's guide to how to do it, which is great because I— that's what I need. And sounds like Conor needs that kind of guidance.

They even say on the bottom there, brain, steer clear of cow and venison brains because of the prion issue. Well, actually, that's sheep as well. Okay, so sheep and goats. So all of that, TSE, transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, are what they're worried about. So look, there are loads of options, you know, fish heads, eyes, and brains.

Okay, can't cut a big fish head, can't slice it, very tricky. Have you ever tried?

We just feed the whole thing, surely?

Yeah, you can't dry a round fish head.

No, you can't.

Too thick, it rots inside.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, you can get the little— the whole point is, I think they're talking about the little sprats, you know, you've got dried sprats, dried sprats, do you not need to dehydrate them?

Or fresh, fresh sardines that have been frozen. Yeah, good.

Fresh sardines, yeah, I'll take one a night too, a fresh sardine.

They do talk about that somewhere, and sardines have the highest EPA and DHA, higher even than mackerel, which was quite— yeah, beautiful.

The sardine section was lovely actually, a whole page of all the different types of tinned fishes. That you can get. Yeah, fish eye. And, uh, but you can— and somebody talked about mussels, and they talked about all the little bits and pieces you can get in tins, and, and what tins to buy and what tins not to buy. And as we all know, avoid the veg oil. But just talking about the different omega contents and even taurine contents of them, I just thought, yeah, that's kind of interesting that, you know, to highlight to people that you get hooked just buying the sardines all the time, but actually, look, there's 3 or 4 different fish in a tin. And so don't be afraid of them. Which ones to feed, which ones not to feed. I like on page, uh, 110 when, um, he's talking about, um, more fro— the little Frozen editions because they're so beautiful, the way he makes them. I keep on saying he, Karen as well. Um, it's just because I know it's because I know Rodney did a lot of the design bit of it, so I'm aware of that. He had said that when we spoke to him, so it's in my head. But, um, so like this page here So, you know, they're telling you how to make a popsicle for your dog. And of course, like, you know, being Rodney, he makes it like, you know, it has to be ice pop shaped. And I love that the stick is a sardine. And then he gives you, and he goes, and like, he gives you other stick options. And they are like, you can use a sardine stick, you can have a backstrap, you can have a carrot stick or a bully stick in your popsicle, as if your dog cares what shape the ice pop is. But you know, that's like when you're making them yourself and you make these gorgeous things, it's so rewarding. I mean, you're doing a half for yourself because it's obvious that the dog doesn't care what shape his kibble is in. Those fish shapes—

I'll never be able to look at an ice lolly again thinking that there's a pizzle stuffed into it.

I just love it. It's just so cute. And there's all these ingredients. First you must choose your veg and fruit and bits and pieces, then you choose your liquids, then you choose your protein. You know what I mean? It's just It's just so lovely laid out, but it's not just one type of antioxidant popsicle. There's like things for boosting brain power. There's things for anti, you know, blue zones, it goes longevity cubes. I mean, that is just so handy as you get these older dogs and you start thinking, is there anything I can give these dogs? You go, yeah, there's a whole myriad of things. You don't have to change the diet completely for an older dog. Any complete raw is as good for a senior as any other dog. Food, but you can make tweaks that will benefit them. And so as Nick was saying, there's dandelion cubes. So Karen and Rodney are clearly in agreement. So you can add in those, you can add in a cognitive cube, you can add in an antioxidant cube another day. You can make these up en masse, keep them in the bag in your cupboard or in your freezer, and you just pop one in the bowl every day. You can do one for kidney disease, for pancreatitis as well.

But yeah. So this is something that just comes across and I think we should discuss because we should be quite open about this. Yeah, there are so many nutrients which we're talking about right now which are in plant form within this book.

Indeed.

And we've had comments back from some of our viewers, and I think we should address it therefore now, about, well, look, you know, these are carnivores, why are you talking about these nutrients? I mean, we did it with selenium. Yeah, people, we gave a lot of plant sources of selenium, and they're saying you know, why should we be feeding Brazil nuts? Why should we be feeding seeds? You know, is that really the best way for our carnivores to get these into them? So just give us a roundup as to why we talk about the plant sources, what form they should be in, and actually why it's not wrong to talk about those when we're talking about nutrition.

Do you want me to have a quick stab?

Yeah, go for it.

My tuppence worth, and I'm probably going to take the words out of Nick's mouth here, is that there's plenty of space for, you know, minor plant ingredients and additions to the dog's diet. Like, I like saying NHS— nuts, herbs, and seeds. They're all plant additions, but how you actually add them into the food is— they highlight in the book, they say, look, you can add in these bits of plant matter, but it's probably better they're lightly cooked. And I totally agree with that on and mushed up because the dogs can't digest it as well as we can. So they do mention about how you would feed these and how the dog's going to get some bits and pieces out of it. I would say yes to what Brian is saying. That's a great point that I do believe the dog would normally get this from the meat chain if they were let off the lead in a wild environment, but they're not. And also, our meat chain is not amazing. It's not like our chickens fed corn is going to make that a wonderfully nutritious meat. That's a high omega-6 meat, low omega-3. And studies show a little bit inflammatory. So it's like, that's not ideal. We can't all afford chickens that are poking around outside and pecking in the dirt because they're quite more predators and it's much more expensive, less intensively reared. And so it is a hard thing to do to feed your dog a natural meat diet. It's not everyone has venison and access to fish. And so, and even our grass-fed cows are fed grass every day, not real pasture, wild, that kind of kind of thing. So I think our soils are depleted and there's only so much even our outdoor-reared animals are getting in their food. And so I think that there's a space for topping up the bits and pieces like iodine. Where are they going to get it if you don't reach for a little sea ingredient now and again? And so I think there's a space for adding in these bits and pieces. And also there's antioxidants and cool additions that when your dog is sick and you start getting these en masse, such as lycopene from a tomato, which you have to lightly cook, there's no way a dog's going to do that out in the environment. But we can take advantage of that and it'll benefit a dog with cancer. So there's a number of different reasons why adding in these cool colorful little ingredients is great. I don't go mad with them, but little bits and pieces like the book is suggesting, I think is great. But what about yourself, Nick? What do you—

Totally agree with that. I mean, there's some controversy as to whether our carnivores will dive into the rumen and go swimming around in all that rumen content, and I completely agree with that, but they will eat the eat the tripe, you know, from the, from the rumen, without a doubt, and therefore will take some of that rumen contents. However, they will categorically eat the intestine because there's a lot of good, good eating to be had there. It's very easy, it's very digestible and what have you. And therefore they're taking that fermented material into themselves. So it's been crushed by the teeth of the herbivore. It's then been digested and fermented within the gut itself. And so I think it's totally legit to be looking at crushed, as you say, Conor, crushed, processed in, you know, in a physical sense. And to give those— lightly cooked is an equivalent. It's not the same, but it's an equivalent. But also fermentation is a way of breaking down the very, very difficult to digest cellulose cell membrane, liberating all the goodness there. So I think I'm legit with that. I think we're all at one on that point. So it's great.

I think, yeah, just understanding that, yeah, the sort of farmed meats are not really, you know, although it would be ideal and they should get everything from those unless they've been farmed in certain ways, you're not necessarily going to get all of that release. And there are options that come about from just well-farmed vegetation that's then prepared minimally but still prepared for best optimization. And actually just to change the microbiome, just to not feed the animal but to feed the microbiome that bit more. And that's a really important thing. The prebiotic effects of some of these nutrients are just as important as feeding your pet.

Yeah, you'll get all your macros from meat, from the intensively reared meat. All the macros are fine, you know, your dog's not going to want for any amino acids or really your fats or— and probably a lot of your vitamins, your dog's going to hit all them with most of your premades. We're talking about some of these really fancy additions, you know, these antioxidants and anthocyanins and polyphenols, that stuff. CBD, for example, you know, you can get that from the meat chain, but good luck trying to find enough of it to have a real kind of a therapeutic effect, you know. And lots of plants provide CBD, it's not just hemp and cannabis plants, but not anymore. Lettuce used to be a great source of it, but not anymore. So your dog will benefit from that, it has an endocannabinoid system, but you're not going to get it from the meat chain. So it's the groovy little additions we're talking about more so than the bits and bobs.

And I think it's an interest thing as well, it's, you know, does your dog need half the things in this book? Probably not. Is it an amazing addition to your quality of life and the dog's quality of life? You know, just exploring these avenues.

And experience food, experience smelling. Can you imagine the sense? Yeah. And they separated foods out and they say, look, try these things in different parts of an egg carton instead of licking an egg carton. Brilliant. And so you try different bits and if your dog keeps on leaving the cucumber, he doesn't want cucumber. But, you know, I thought that was a good idea. They're doing that. They're doing everything right, you know? Yeah.

Amazing, guys. I'm just going to jump in there. This, this recipe really caught my eye. I mean, there's over 120 recipes in here, but this I absolutely loved. And it's dead easy for the person who doesn't really cook like me. This is a cranberry sardine chutney, and it's good for bladder and brain health. It contains sardines, cranberries, a bit of sardine water, a bit of gelatin powder. and you can put a tablespoon of kefir in there. And that's what it— that's— whoa, that's what it looks like.

Look at that.

Which I think, you know, I could have that myself.

Well, I was just gonna say, every single recipe in here is like— I'm looking at this going, the lucky bloody dog. If me and the kids were fed this way, and maybe the wife, if, if all of our— my family were eating this way, bloody hell. And we haven't even— like, we're still in the first section here. Nick's just dipped his toe into the second section, which is recipes and that kind of cool stuff for people struggling. Uh, but I think we have— we're probably nearing time, guys, because I'm not quite sure what time we started. And we want to jump—

yeah, well, we're 3/4 of an hour in.

Yeah, we do another 10 minutes and you can just chop off 10 minutes for the Patreon brigade.

Yeah, it's easy for me to end. I think what we'll say is goodbye to you guys right now. And, you know, it's been wonderful. Uh, I think this— look, it's a Definitely. Let's finish off with, is it a must-buy?

Connor, it is a must-buy.

Yeah, that is honestly, that is the second best book on dogs, I think.

And the first was The Forever Dog.

Oh, that is easily the best-looking book I would even have in my kitchen. I swear to God, it's the best-looking book. It is flawless. Blood, sweat, and tears have gone into it, and we know from talking to him. It is a phenomenal achievement, and that is just— it's awesome, it's beautiful, and it deserves to be up at the top. I see from a post you did today it's up at the top of the list.

What we're going to do, if you want to join us for the last bit of roundup on our insights into the forever dog life, please join us over on patreon.com/rawpetmedics, and you will find us over there. So patreon.com/rawpetmedics. And you'll get our bit on the side for the roundup. But for everyone else, hope you've enjoyed us romping through this wonderful book, and please put in your pre-orders if you're on this side of the pond. If you're on the other side of the pond, you should get yourself one and get one for your friend half price. Okay, you can get that right now, so just have a look at those offers that are out there and you should be able to help these these friends out with brilliant and interesting nutrient recipes for your pets.

I just want to say to everybody, we are not getting a penny for this. They did send us a book each so that we could review the thing, but apart from that, we are getting nothing. So this is not sponsored in the slightest by Karen and Rodney or whoever else. This is just because we think it's a really, really important book.

We did ask, but Rodney said no, so I will do it anyway.

There we go.

Okay, brilliant.

Well, so guys, we'll see you over on Patreon. Take care until next week.