Colleen and Amaya walk through switching cats from processed food to raw, covering different approaches for kittens versus seniors and the typical 6-week adjustment. They explain how amino acids and fats make kibble addictive, plus practical details on meal timing, supplementation, and troubleshooting common problems like fasting and post-surgery feeding.
Chapters
Good afternoon, good morning, welcome everyone, welcome to Amaia, welcome to Colleen.
Hello.
Enjoy today, this is all about transitioning your cats to raw. So we've got lots to get through, but I'd like to just catch up because we've not really had a chance to introduce you to Colleen. And so Amaia, I'll let you take that away as, uh, the introduction and everything else while I just carry on. I've got some books to do.
But what should I say? Okay, um, let's give a warm welcome to Colleen from The Little Carnivore. Uh, you're also a member of the RFPS, and, um, well, tell us a little bit about your career, where they can find you, and all the things.
So first, thank you for inviting me. So I'm Colleen from The Little Carnivore. You can find me like a bit everywhere on YouTube, mainly in French, on Instagram in French and English, a bit on TikTok, like, uh, and of course I also have my own website with everything in English, and you will find everything about like raw feeding and feline nutrition, quite lots of complete articles, a bit also of cats other things like breed genetics for all the cat nerds around here, but mostly feline nutrition and of course raw feeding.
Nice, wonderful.
So tell me, what have you been up to, guys? I've had a really interesting week, but I'll come to that in a moment. What have you been up to, Amaya? I know it's really busy for your season around now.
I have— I had the most— the week of the unexpected. Anything that, you know, you plan, you try to make a plan during your week. Well, nothing, nothing went the same way, but some of the surprises were really good. And I actually had my— the Maine Coon had the— her gingivitis from since she was born and calicivirus And well, we had her teeth cleaned. So I met some new holistic vets in the island because I had to go to another town to find a holistic vet. But, you know, I take care of my, my little girls. Um, and yeah, that, that was the thing. I mean, I cannot even describe what things happen or not. It was kind of the unexpected. That's kind of my summary, but well, it wasn't bad. Yeah.
And is it getting hot for you? Are you in the heat of summer now?
Well, it is weird because you get like 5 days warm and then a sudden rain and a tropical rain or a bad day, something like that. And then again, so now we are getting warmer again and there's probably rain coming at some point. But for me, it's been nicer than last year. Last year it was like, boom, you get the heat, here you go, and die. But this year was really— it's been, it's been more transitioning to the summer.
All right, just a gentle transfer.
Yeah, exactly.
Good stuff. And for you, Colleen, where are you up to? Are you, uh, Tell the guys whereabouts in the world you are currently.
Yeah, what I've been up to— so a very busy week. So for one that doesn't know, I'm currently doing a Master of Science in Animal Nutrition at the University of Glasgow. I'm in one of my last courses and I have an assignment to do for this week, so very, very busy week. Thankfully I'm going on holidays next week, so just finishing all the work, everything, before going on holidays. And I'm located in in the French Riviera, so south of France, just near Cannes. There was just the film festival like 2 weeks before. Weather has been absolutely horrible. We never had such a bad month. It's like raining almost every day. Like, it's terrible. At least it's not too hot, but raining all the time. And the cats are so sad they cannot go in the garden because it's raining all the time. Not very great.
See, I was really, really jealous right up until that bit. Whoa. Okay. So sometimes you get English weather over there. I mean, we've had some really warm days, but it's the thing with the UK is we're always worried about that shock of going from super cold to super warm and then back to cold. It's that variability that really does for our pets more than actually whether it would be warm or cold. And so that's the things for everybody out watching that, you know, if you're really struggling for your pets or your pets are really struggling, it's really down to the fact they've just not had time to acclimatize. Most people would say they need that transition, as Amaya was saying, that 2-week gentle sort of move into summer. But then, you know, let's see how they go. Please just remember, you know, when you're leaving your cats behind, make sure that they're not stuck in the conservatory or something like that where it's all glass and no way to escape. You know, those are really important things to make sure of right now. I've had a brilliant week, been learning all about effectively regenerative farming, looking at how we raise our food, how we can improve the nutrient density of our food, and they're up for ultimately our cat's feed too. Met some great people, got to talk about cats with people that you would not think would be wanting to know about pets. Shout out to Benjamin if you're watching, hopefully you get time to tune in. And you know, we— so many people interested, just not really put the two things together of what they're feeding ultra-processed to their pets and, you know, how they can actually transition them to a low-processed diet such as raw. So great time to, to talk to them this year, very much was on the cards. People were talking about ultra-processed foods as well as the regenerative farming and the links that there are within that. So it has so many factors and facets to that that we, I was really interested in looking at, as well as, you know, looking at hobby farm, more farm equipment, all of those things that, you know, I really have to stop buying. But great, no, great time. And a shout out to Sally Tobin, just in case you watch this. It was great to meet you again. And to Nick and Fiona, loads of people that sort of joined us down there that watch us every week. So it's brilliant. And yeah, the things that we need to talk about transitioning, you know, and this is getting cats from that ultra-addictive, highly processed mush and crunch to something that's actually a— I don't even want to name it anything else because that's all it is— to something that's actually going to do them some good. So we talked very briefly before this and Colleen said, well, I don't really struggle, so I'm not sure what I'm going to say. So I said, well, that sounds like a great place to start because it probably means you're doing it right and we've been struggling not quite doing it right for so many years. So Kaleen, just give us an insight before we go into some of the other factors that come into this. What is your general approach? Because you must have seen, you know, hundreds of clients by now that have just gone, look, I need to introduce you to a better diet. What's your approach?
So first thing, like, I don't really have one approach for all cats. I separate, like, if it's like a kitten or an older cat. Like, for kitten, generally it's like super easy. You can almost like transition in a few days, or if they're like really young, like just from one day to another, because they are not already used to the ultra-processed foods, so they still recognize meat as food and they take to it very easily. If you have an older cat, definitely not something that I recommend to go from one day to another first, because it's just going to look at the meat and being like, what is this? Is this even food? Like, they don't even recognize what is it. In that case, I really like recommend to do very, very long transition. And especially if they have like free-fed kibble, they are never really hungry during the day because they're just eating all day long. So I generally like transitioning first to some meal during the day, maybe going from kibbles to wet food first so that they can understand, okay, I'm eating 3, 4 times a day at this moment, so what I'm seeing at this moment is actually food. And then you can start introducing the meat with the wet food and know they make the link, okay, at this moment I'm receiving food at the same time, and progressively going to a fully raw diet. So that would be the approach for older cats, but then you can adapt really depending on your cat. There is not like one size fits all, in my opinion.
Okay, so Amaya, things to add? What— so your experience, have you done any difference, anything that you found particularly great? Just—
well, I do, I do individualize because I had also some older cats that jumped into a new food, and the least— the ones you least expect to change. For example, I had a cat with pancreatitis, so we're trying to stabilize first, and then he jumped into the raw food. I was like, I'm not sure this is okay, you know, because this was too fast. And sometimes you get that luck, but 2 or 3 days later they don't want to eat it anymore. So, uh, it's sometimes you get so excited because you get it right, right in 2 or 3 days, but then it may, you know, you always have to be playing a little bit in the beginning until they get, um, you know, they, they transition completely to it. And, uh, in my case, this led me to investigate a little bit more into addiction, but in humans, because it's— there's nothing about it. So, uh, I try to, you know, now I'm making a comparison with that, but we'll dig into that because it's very, very long. But in, in addition to that, with what you said, Colleen. What I do is analyze also the environment, what they, you know, if they feel comfortable, the sense of security around the house, where the bowl is, how the routine with the family itself, if there are other animals, you know, I try to look at the full thing, but usually the hardest ones for me, yes, it's the senior ones.
Yeah, and I think, you know, it's really important, you know, to go through that individualization. Yeah, every cat is an individual, although there's some broad brushstrokes. And if your cat has never been a cat that likes fish, you know, why are you going to be introducing it to a raw fish diet? You know, if your cat has never been one to like chicken why are you going to introduce it to a raw chicken diet? You know, you've got to play the odds, you know, look at what they like. And I used to say there were chicken cats and there were fish cats. My cat at the moment is neither. She's a wild game cat. Okay.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah.
So posh.
She'll cope with lamb. Okay. But a little bit of pheasant doesn't go amiss.
Where is the duck this week?
Yes, absolutely, duck. Anyway, so I have to be very particular with Spider. She's one of those cats in a million, just wants to buck the trend. She's heard me talking too much about fish and chicken cats. I'm not playing ball, but that's cat's nature, isn't it? So do be aware that every cat is an individual. If you know there's a protein that they like then that's the place to probably start. But if there's, you know, no sort of preference as far as you know, then please, you just do feel that, you know, go to a good brand that's maybe done a complete for you if you're worried about, you know, has it got everything in that I need? And we'll touch on proportions. Or, you know, if you feel that no, actually, I just want to try a little bit in the dish, as Colleen was saying, you know, so that they recognize that it's actually food, there is no harm in, you know, shredding a little bit up and popping it into the dish and just make sure it's fresh, you know, and it's clean and get it in there and start to see the improvements. So I'd generally say don't, you know, don't be afraid to go straight for at least a quarter of the new food, you know, into that dish and just let them have a little go, but you don't want too much wastage. So, um, so let's talk a little bit. I definitely want to talk about the addiction stuff because, I mean, it's so relevant, um, and we want to talk about behavior, so we've got to sort of leave ourselves a bit of time to, to do those things. Um, so let's, let's talk about the addiction first because, you know, So many people just think, well, that's gambling, alcohol, drugs, okay.
Work. You can be addicted to work.
And exercise, you know, that's, you know, it's there, doesn't it? So all of these are around what does your body do in response? So usually, whether that be stress-induced, that you suddenly get an endorphin as you come towards the end of that, or whether you literally the things that you're consuming give you that same rush as the endorphins, you know, that, that tends to be an innate reward that your body's giving you for that experience. And that then has a cycle, okay. And we talk about that being addictive. So The more you do it, the more you need it, the more you do it, therefore the more you need it. And that's why some people are exercise freaks and go out running at ridiculous times of day constantly. And that's why some people are— I'm sorry if you're one of those, but it's an addiction. And that's why some people will take the medicines and they can't just stop. It is something that they need help with. So for our cats, well, what have you discovered, Amaya, with regards to that?
Well, I've been digging on Gabor Maté's books, which he has. The most recent one that I haven't read yet, it's The Myth of Normality. And he is an expert in trauma. He's a doctor. He's been working with uh, palliative care, and he talks about trauma a lot. And he realizes that addiction and trauma are a bit related in a way that addiction serves a purpose to— for you to, uh, hide something, or something that maybe is unconscious. Maybe you don't know that it's happening, but it serves a purpose. You're escaping from something, right? So usually he gave some examples. For example, if you work too much, sometimes you are trying to serve the purpose of value, that I need to show some value in the world, and where does it come from. So, you know, you have to dig in and know yourself a little bit and so on. So what I found out is that with cats, especially cats that even if they were breed or if they are stray cats that you adopted and, you know, You never know the background. You never know. That is very tainted by humans in general, because if they're in the street, you don't know the resources the cat have, the mother had, or if they're breeders, you don't know either, because sometimes with the most innocent ways, we do harm and we don't know. And so all those things, when the cat develops, it starts with the smell, sense of smell. So the first choice they make is, is choosing the nipple of the mother. If that's affected already, then you already have something affected in the beginning, in the very start. And then so when you get the immune system develops, the microbiome develops, everything develops and all goes through that cycle. So the cat is already going to have like a set of things when you get that. And it's already going to be, you know, having choices, preferences, ways to feel safe. When I try to put the brain of the human brain into the cat brain, what I take is the amygdala, which is the survival brain. And I do believe that when the cats, you know, the cats are usually going for the amygdala. And when you try to connect the dots, you find that there are so many similarities. They are trying to feel safe. They are trying to survive. They don't care. That part of the brain doesn't care if you're happy. That part of the brain is trying to fulfill a purpose, which is survival. So if you understand that, then you have to understand that there is more to food. Food is only going to be actually from the psychosomatic point of view, food is love and it's sense of security. So if you feel, if the cat feels that this gives him security, he's going to eat more or find foods that fool that endorphins, that biochemistry inside, that it's going to make that cycle go on and go on. Some other cats will go for the microbiome if you fed them a lot of ultra-processed foods of course, that microbiome will be affected and that it's also going to have certain effects on behavior that we will see that on the conference of RFA. Spoiler alert. And then there is another factor, which is the family, the environment, the energy, the choices that you make. Sometimes even we don't realize how big we are in relation to them. So we walk around automatically in our houses and, and we don't know if we are creating these insecurities ourselves. So we need to look at the cat in a different way. Stop looking at, at this is my— well, it is your baby and your son, if you're— or daughter, if you want to, if you want to create that bond, that's okay. But try to disconnect from that perspective for a minute and remember that he's a carnivore that needs you know, feel safe to eat and needs to, uh, and needs to get this routine without knowing all the past. Because if you know the past, well, you might get some idea why you're struggling more. But so what I learned is that in order to get the addiction control and be sure, you need at least 6 weeks. That's the time, that's the time it takes to the brain to say, okay, we're changing, everything's changing, that's okay. So this is in humans. I would love to do some research in cats, but if you want to fund it, that would be amazing. Just let me know.
I always remember there's something that said in the human world that actually when you're training somebody to do something automatically, it will take at least 21 attempts to actually get them to start doing it automatically. You know, you can't expect them to on day one just do it because you've told them how to. Even if they've taught, you've taught them how to and they've learned it, you know, in practice, they have to practice it that level of times in order for it to work. And I think it's made even more difficult if the longer they have been doing it the other way, So that's the thing to remember. And it's the same realistically with cats. If they've been eating one thing and their mums have been eating one thing before that, and then they're brought into that sort of world and that's what they're weaned onto, of course it can be more difficult. But, you know, that gives people a target now of that you've got 6 weeks really that if your cat is particularly obstructive that it could take to move them across. Colleen, have you—
That is if you're lucky.
Yeah. Oh, you're making it sound so hard.
No, no.
You've already said that quite a lot of cats do actually just go, do you know what? That is so much better than what you were feeding me before. Thank God you got rid of the cardboard. Anyway, Colleen, when you've done all of your nutrition stuff, have you looked at some of the things that they add into tinned foods and kibble foods to make them more attractive to cats?
I didn't look much into it. I'm like not really researching much like kibbles and wet food because it's not mainly my interest. I'm mostly researching like raw food and stuff, but they definitely add a lot of stuff. I I remember during my research finding one very big French company which is specialized not exactly in pet food but in making like all the things that they put in it to make the pet eat. So the entire company is only like making those additives to make the food taste good to the cats. So all their research is based on is this food going to be palatable to the cat? And I was like kind of mind-blown that there was an entire company doing exclusively that, like making things to make the cat eat the food, like nothing else. They were not producing or anything, like just really their specialty was exclusively making the food taste good to the pets.
And do you know what makes those things, you know, for cats particularly, because it's slightly different from dogs, isn't it? But not wholly different, that makes things really attractive to cats?
So from what I remember, it's mainly like a lot around amino acid. Recently there was a study that just went out where they identified what's in tuna that makes it so addictive to cat, and it was a very specific amino acid that is in very high level in tuna and in other fish. So that's why you get the cat that likes the fish and not the chicken, and it was caused by an amino acid. I don't remember exactly what was the name. So it's often, also often that. There is also lots of difference in palatability depending on the protein and the fat level. Obviously, when you get more carbohydrates, the cat will not select the diet. They will select the diet actually that is the closest to what they eat in the wild, so with like, I think it was like 60% of the calories from fat and 40% of the calories from protein and like almost nothing from carbohydrates. So yeah, I think it's very influenced by the macronutrient and amino acid composition of the food.
Yeah, so it's definitely, there's there's some things in there that we know about, certainly the amino acids, that side of things. I can never remember in tuna myself whether it's tryptophan that is one of the things that really heightens that desire. But there's, I mean, through the '90s, before you were born, Colleen, there were a number of companies that were called to task just because of the salt loading of the dry foods to try and make them, one, more palatable, two, to just try and encourage the cats to drink too. But they were so salt-loaded that it was almost, you know, gave them salt poisoning. That's how bad it had got and was leading to some strains on the kidneys, etc. I think also texture has a a difference too, which is one of the things that we, for ultra-processed foods, you know, we like that soft, slightly slippy taste and feel. It's that feel within the mouth that actually makes a difference. And certainly for the sachet foods and the tinned foods, that, you know, creating a gel out of effectively bacterial slimes You know, these are the things that you'll find in their food to create that gel. You know, we all think it's lovely gravy and something that's been made with gelatin, but actually the majority of it now is anything that's a bacterial slime, xanthan gums, you know, all of the gums generally are bacterial slime. Yeah, because they're just a slightly slippier feel to them. So those, but those actually have a massive impact on your gut glycocalyx. They actually mess it up. That's the— so you have your gut has villi to make an increased absorption area, and on the villi you've got microvilli, which is, you know, the little tiny fronds on tiny fronds. And before you know it, you've then got little sugar molecules sticking out the surface of each cell on those microvilli, which are effectively increasing the ability to grab hold of and absorb nutrients. But actually, that bacterial slime can disrupt that and actually start to cause problems with inflammation. So be really careful about how much of these gums we actually allow into our diets, let alone our pets' diets. I mean, you look at— I dare you to go to a cupboard and pick up the first source that you find and then try and work out, you know, what's in those ingredients lists. And it might be disguised under an E number, but it probably is just there as a gum and somebody thinks, oh, that comes from a plant and it's perfectly harmless, must be healthy because it's, you know, almost Latin-sounding name. But no, it's usually a bacterial slime that's going to cause more problems than anything else.
Shopping, it's getting difficult every day, more difficult every day. For cats as well, because that what you mean, if you go to a normal pet store, it's really difficult. Sometimes when I have to deal with clients in the US or UK and they tell me, this is the place I go because it's easy for me to find brands, you know, and it's like, no, I don't like any of them. That's full. Let's keep looking. So it takes me like a lot of time to find, because they say, but this looks like chicken. And this, this is the problem. The products are made for the human to, you know, say, oh, look what I'm giving to my cat. This looks like, you know, so this is why I find there is a lot of behavior in this kind of thing. Then if the cat doesn't eat it, then you start worrying so much and you go like, oh no, let's open another one and try and keep trying. So this is why my proposal is to, you know, just try to look at the full cool environment before you, you start buying. Because it's okay if you have to use those cans for just a little bit to get them— for example, if you're comparing that to kibble, you know, well, let's change to any wet food you can, and then, you know, we, we'll transition from there. But the other problem that we have is that most of the time they call you when the cat is sick, so you're adding a new, a new thing into the transition.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's something really critical to say, you know, is it the best time to change a food when they've just been in for surgery or just about to go in for surgery? Or, you know, as much as the healing may be better on raw, you know, if they're just going through an episode of pancreatitis or gastrointestinal disease and they've had surgery to resolve something, they're going to be uncomfortable, and you don't want that association of discomfort with the new food. So it is really important to, to just time that right. So any other things with addiction? I often refer to cat crack. Do you understand what I mean by that?
Well, I'm assuming like a drug.
Well, yeah, not eggshells.
It's not difficult.
So these things are usually where they combine a number of things like the amino acids, like some fats and sugars even, into the food to effectively create a super flavor that is addictive to cats?
The tapioca starch.
Yeah, all sorts of things.
Yeah, any, any, anything with tapioca starch is like, they go crazy for it. But yeah, we have, uh, there, there are many, um, many products, but in the end, uh, for me, that's one of the, one of the, the things. It's not— I mean, the same thing we do when we try to switch to transition to another food, we use some toppers to make it, you know, to enhance flavor in the most natural way possible. But now that you said about, I remember now when you were talking, where you said that the overload of supplements, that's another thing that could make the transition more difficult when the cat is sick because you're trying to put things in it and, you know, they don't like the food. Yeah. What is it? Is it just food? What are you doing? The same thing if you're trying to enhance it with some toppers, that's okay, but just give them time a little bit, not try everything at once or at the same time with the supplements. I know we all need omega-3s, but for example, my cat hates fish oil. So I had to look for a different way. Brains, for example.
That's crazy.
Exactly. It took me a while to see that he didn't like— because he likes tuna, like every other cat, fish cats. But, uh, but then he hates any— I tried all the fish oil you can possibly find, and he doesn't like it. So, you know, I need to source omega-3, but if I try to source it at the same time that I'm trying to transition to a new food, then maybe I may have to go for a, a small period without a balanced food until I get, uh, until I get there, you know, until I go— I went through the 6 weeks of addiction period, right? Uh, so many times people say, yes, but I want a formulation. Yeah, but you know, you don't— you're not there yet. You have to wait for it to get the formulation because If I give you a beautiful formula, perfect, NRC approved, whatever you want, it's not gonna work. The cat is gonna say, yeah, that's really nice. How are you gonna prepare it for yourself?
If they do that one way and they do this the other. So tell me, do you tend to um, find that you are formulating for people, or, and if you are, how much do you give them freedom to vary outside of that formulation?
Um, it depends. Generally, uh, people will often order like 2, 3 different recipes so that they can vary between recipes. And, uh, generally in one formulation there is not really options, but if they ask me, like, can I switch that, switch this, I will check if it's possible. Because first, so sometimes they cannot find all the ingredients, so I always, if they ask me, I will always provide options in the recipes that I formulate. And yeah, generally several recipes also will work better. But yeah, for the transition, first I recommend to start with, like, one recipe, not too complicated, and going like one by one with ingredients and not putting everything at the beginning because the cats, yeah, it's going to be too much, too much change. Like really, pick your battles, start small, go one by one, progressively add the things, and don't try to do everything at the same time. Your cat is just going to go crazy and not understand what's happening.
And do you get this type of client that panics over a formula or a recipe? Because I get those sometimes. Oh wow, that's good.
I think that's an education piece, isn't it, in its own right? I think from a point of view of seeing for humans, if we, you know, go into a supermarket, you know, you've not got somebody saying, right, you've got you know, 2 ounces of that. Oh, sorry, that's, that's, you've not got, you know, you're not going down that route of, you know, 50 grams of this, 100 grams of that, you know, you just need to balance it with it, you know, 5 grams of that, and then, you know, a kilo of that will be fine. And that's it for the day. Okay. No, it doesn't work like that because everything varies. And as Colleen said, actually having multiple recipes, having variety, I think is actually what saves us from ourselves, and it's what saves our cats from us, is actually giving them some variety. So if you're stuck in a rut of just giving one thing over and over again because they're addicted to that, that's almost as bad, and that's actually the higher risk of some sort of deficiency. Because you may be missing out on some nutrients. Now, those supplements that Amaya was talking about, you know, it would be really interesting— talk to your vet, talk to your nutritionist about— well, hopefully your vet will know, but if they don't, they should refer you to a nutritionist— about what organ materials may carry those nutrients that you're trying to supplement. Because actually, the best supplement in the world is in the food. Okay. It doesn't need to be that you've found an artificial option unless you've really got foods which just are inadequate in those. You know, we jokingly put in about brains there and it was just the omega-3s. But it's really hard at the moment because of legislation sometimes to get hold of adequate brain material. And so, you know, we're stuck with sometimes fish heads, things like that. You know, they can blend those.
No way. In my experience, cats really don't like the fish head. Like, I have two of my cats, they will eat the sardine, they will not just the head. And I had lots of feedback of like cats that are okay with the fish but just not the head.
They don't like food that looks at them. It's like, it's one of those. No, my cat—
I just had to go for the supplement, the organ supplements. Which is, which is not easy because they are measured for, you know, for human consumption. But well, I managed like that. And sometimes I hide a little bit of fish oil, but I still have them. But yeah, I always give them many options because I do have those, some people that are overwhelmed with the change. 'Cause they are trying to, you know, first of all, they get this idea that they were doing the best they could when they were given kibble, you know? So they thought they were given the best food. And usually when they come to me, they are sick, very sick. So the problem is that, you know, they feel guilty. So then you have to deal with the guilt that they have, then the transition that the cat is not eating and all the things around it that if the cat doesn't eat, If it's making a hunger strike, if, you know, and then so, and then they get this, they managed to get to the wet food, but then you give them a recipe and it's like, they've been such a long road that they're so overwhelmed that if I can, I'll go for commercial food, raw food, if I can, because sometimes it is really difficult for some people. And I always mentioned a lot of behavior and how we deal with this idea of my cat is not eating, you know, because if the cat was accustomed, like you said, Colleen, that the cat was accustomed to eat free kibble all day ad libitum, then they won't understand this meal set, you know, so First of all, try that, you know, try to adapt them to, so work with that behavior, work and create that routine, 'cause that's very important. And then keep it calm. Don't be opening a next can just because it was, you know, I hear this all the time on Instagram. I go crazy when I watch Instagram. You see that, you know, oh, I just put this in the fridge and now the cat doesn't want it. How much time did you give the cat to— actually, did you warm it up before? I'll leave it a little bit outside. You can add a little bit of bone broth, warm bone broth in it, so make it, you know, that make that jelly without adding more jelly in it. There are other things you can do. You can put a little bit of brewer's yeast as well and other flavor, natural flavor things to to keep using the same can, right? And until you don't get a routine or those 6 weeks, don't buy those packages of 24 canned food because they might eat it for 3 days and then the shelter nearby would be very happy with you, but in the cost, cost-wise, it's not gonna be really good. So try to get, you know, the step-by-step, but also in your mind, forget about getting into— because you're going to be, you know, all, all the time you're going to get the information of raw food, raw food, or natural ingredients, or, you know, and you're going to be like too overwhelmed with this. So try to step, step by step, think about, well, this is my— what my cat is allowing me right now, and this is where I'm going, right?
Something that I see a lot also, it's like people that actually get trained by their cat to give their cat the food that the cat likes. Like they try something new, the cat doesn't eat, and he's just waiting because he knows that he's going to get the old food that he prefers. And the human is just getting trained by the cat to basically not change the food.
And that's like 15 minutes and he will give me another can. Yeah, exactly. The fish one that I like.
Yeah, it's not gonna just kill the person, but I mean, if your cat misses one meal, if it's an adult healthy cat, of course it's not the end of the world. And sometimes you just need to let the cat skip one meal and see if he will eat it at the next meal, and it's not going to be the end of the world if it just misses one meal. And we need to, like, it's to relativize. It's not like really the end of the world because, like, sometimes people, like, take it like very, very seriously, but it's more of a marathon rather than a sprint. So like take your time, don't get too stressed, or also like don't hover around your cat and like let him, let him some peace, give him his food, go a bit away and let him breathe a bit, look at his food, don't stress him too much.
That's what I usually do. What I usually do is go and say, This is the meal today, guys.
Oh, you're such a strong woman. You're such a strong woman.
But what I do, what I do is that this, this animal sacrifice itself. And if I, if I need to get dramatic, I'll just go, this animal sacrifice itself to feed you guys.
Bye.
Oh, wow. Oh, those poor children around that table.
Um, so But this I do for my own amusement in a way that, you know, you are relaxed because you laugh at yourself doing that thing, right? You say this and you just go away and relax and forget about it. And usually they will eat it, you know, and that's it. And you just take like that pressure from you.
I mean, so I'm really impressed it's only taken you, well, 40 minutes into the first episode to suggest to everybody out there, Colleen, that the cats are training them, which is absolutely true and we all know, but some of us don't dare to say straight away. It does bring us on to behavior and timing into feeding because I think that really has a role to play actually with, you know, what we're doing with cats, especially when we're transitioning. Those cats onto Raw. So Amaya, you're going to introduce us to this a lot in the conference that's to come at the end of July, the end of this month. No, next month.
Next month.
We are in June.
Yeah, we're either. So, and I'm looking forward to seeing everybody there. So, you know, do remember it's in Aberystwyth, which is in Wales. Okay. West Wales.
19th and 20th of July.
Yeah.
And you can watch it online if you're not able. And also if you get the, uh, the tickets, even if you can, you know, just watch it live, uh, you will receive as a ticket holder an extra video from Conor Brady.
Wow.
Yeah. So that's the thing. That's like, like, don't wait, don't buy the videos, just, you know, get the tickets like it is. And we're going to have a really interesting talk about that. Actually, Jude McCoy is going to talk about the hunting behavior and that, you know, how is that related to the behavior with nutrition and are they going to hunt less outside? You know, so this is one of the biggest topics. If they are entertained, let's say, inside, how how is this going to affect the hunting behavior outside, for example, right? So that, yeah, I'm not going to say much more about it because I want you to hear Jude.
Yeah, okay, well, we've got to, we owe it to our viewers to say a couple of things about best feeding times for our cats. So have you come across a preference Colleen, for your cats? Because you've got—
yeah, after transitioning, I tried several things with my first cat. Like, I tried feeding her only one time a day for conveniences, was really not working. She was kind of eating everything then throwing up because it was too much food. So we tried different things, and now we settled since several years to like 3 meals a day. One in the morning, around when I wake up, one in the evening because before I was like going to work so I could not feed them like at lunch, and one before, just before I go to sleep. It's working well. Often it's recommended to like to give food to your cat before going to sleep so that after eating they will do a nap and they will let you sleep in peace. And I think it's also for the transition, like, really, really important to play with when your cat is the most hungry. Like, my cats are most hungry in the morning, so I would give them all the things they don't like most, like the organs. They are not a big fan of, like, liver, fish is what they like the least, so they will get it in the morning when they are the most hungry. So I try to, to play with, with what they like. I found that I give them the Raw Meaty Balls bones in their last meal of the day because it's probably a bit like the longer to digest, so still so that they can get a good night of sleep and they also are sleeping digesting their periwinkle bones.
Oh, that's good. And so for you, Amaya, do you feed at certain times? I mean, you're in a warmer environment in the summer as well, so is there a sort of preference of times that you go around?
Yes. I usually go for 3 meals, but I notice it depends on my daily routine. Because if I'm at home, they will usually get 4 meals. But if I'm not, it doesn't matter. It's like, you know, it is now that you're here, would you feed us again? So I've noticed this, but when I travel and they, you know, they they go from 3 meals to 2 a day, uh, they're completely fine. I actually leave them some freeze-dried or air-dried something just in case, you know, they want to play with, but that doesn't, you know, they don't even care about it. So this is, this is the thing that, uh, and during the summer, usually it is 2 really good meals. And sometimes they ask me in, uh, like lunchtime, but it's not the best one because they, they don't— they're not really hungry. They're so hot, like, you know, the, the heat is— it's really, really bad.
So that's interesting because that's that confusion in humans, excuse me, that we get between thirst and hunger. And, you know, sometimes there is that element of, well, our cats are desert creatures, they get the majority of their water through their raw food. But actually, I do think sometimes that yes, they sort of are pestering you like they're hungry, but actually they're probably quite thirsty.
I've noticed they are drinking more water. Even, you know, sometimes they don't want to eat the meal that I put, but then they are drinking more water. So yeah, I think that behavior is also there.
Don't be afraid, you know. A little bit of fasting is not a bad thing. You know, people worry about fatty liver disease in cats. You know, they miss a meal. Well, you know, certainly if they miss 3 days worth of food and they've had a high-carb diet which has led to the fats in their liver building, okay, then sure, fatty liver could be a problem. They could get an inflammatory cholelithiasis choleohepatitis, cholangiohepatitis even. And that would be the, you know, issue around mobilization of that fats as they suddenly stop eating. But I think, yeah, I've not seen that in raw.
No, that's what I was going to tell you.
It is just one of those that I think you just don't get that buildup of fatty liver in the first place to then suddenly have the trauma of it being mobilized and ability of the liver. So I think there are so many benefits to moving across, but don't worry if your cat goes off a meal or two, especially in the summertime. As long as they're getting plenty of fluids, they're staying hydrated, and they're active, then please, yeah, do not suddenly start panicking that you need to wholesale change and start feeding the addiction again. That's not necessary.
I actually have one of the commercial recipes peas that they get. They used to like it a lot. Something happened. They don't like it that as much now. So I just, I just put it there and if they don't want it, they just have to wait for the next one. And sometimes he would, he went the whole day without eating. The next day he's really hungry, so he doesn't care whatever I put down. But then I noticed it's actually being beneficial for him. Because he has, um, my cat has a little bit of IBD that it's controlled without any medication, just food and mushrooms, of course, my favorite thing in the world. And, uh, and then every time I noticed that he has that day of fasting, all that, uh, symptoms of, uh, hairballs sometimes that he may have, or, you know, they disappear. So it's even if it, if it weren't for the The fact that, you know, the cat, if it's hungry, it's going to throw everything around your house and, you know, and make a show and call you every time and run into the kitchen when you're going there. Besides that, fasting, actually, I found it very good for my cat. So, but he's been on raw for 7 years now. So that's the difference as well. I would not go and recommend that to all the cats or transitioning cats. So, you know, I know it takes some time, but I'm finding that actually he builds better muscle, thigh muscles. He's lean. And, you know, I'm finding it very interesting, the fasting in raw food for cats.
So, so many things there. Last thing that I think we've got time to touch on is bowls. And actually, guys, if you've not come across it yet and you thought it was all about dogs, this book, The Forever Dog Life, okay, so the life bit is all about the what's going on with the different areas, including looking at what's going on with the environment, what's going on, you know, for what you use as cleaning products, what you use for deodorizing the house. All sorts of things are in this book, and it's not about dogs just only. It is also talking a lot about for cats, and bowls is in here, but it is something that's really interesting to consider which bowl you're using. So what bowl do you use for your cats, Colleen?
So I'm collecting them actually, like I have tons of like little ceramic bowls or some little plates, and I have like maybe 5 or 6 different sets of them, but they vary and they make nice pictures, but everything ceramic so that it's easy to clean, no no plastic to avoid any issue with like acne, all of that. So I really focusing on ceramic bowls that are for— I mean, all my bowls are normally for humans, like they are not specific. I don't have anything which is specifically for pets. I just go to the like home store and if I see something cute, I will buy it for my cats if it's a good size. And I have really a big collection. So anything like ceramic and food grade for humans will work well. And I really don't recommend anything plastic. So, so yeah, I really have a lot of them. It's starting to become an issue. I don't have place in my cupboards anymore.
Just got so many bowls.
Now you need more cats to fulfill the—
I'm really sure that I bought everything by two, so fitting perfectly.
Well, four.
So what do you use, Maya?
Well, I use quite the same thing. I also have one that it's made by one of my friends that she likes to do ceramic, and she made sure that the paint, everything, because she's also a cat lover and, you know, she wanted to make her own bowls for her cats. And she, she does, she's done a set for me. And then I use those for human grade as well. Sometimes porcelain or ceramic that are those tea plates, you know, because I like it. I like them when they're pretty big and with the, with a little bit of, I don't know how you call this, the border. Border. Okay, so, um, because, well, with, with my big Maine Coon, she, she gets the head in there and, you know, she needs, she needs her space. So she uses like a big bowl, like a big plate. She prefers that.
And the other one is like, so yeah, I'm feeding my cats in bowls, but to be fair, they are never eating in them. They're just taking their food, putting it on the floor next to it. Like, they are just for the picture and giving it to them. They are never eating it. Even if they are like, they are all flat, there is no issue with the whiskers or anything, you just, they just put it next to it.
Yeah, they just take it out.
It's mainly just for me and the nice pictures. They, I, they don't really care. No matter what I feed them in, they will just put it next to it.
So what does, what does the book say? About it.
Oh wow, well, so they do talk very much about please watch plastics. Most plastics aren't safe for eating from. We all hear about, you know, all of the phthalates and the BPAs and things like that that come in plastics these days, and when they leach into food, what health implications they have. And many of our cat bowls are not food safe in that sense. They're just formed plastic. So they really say please don't use plastics, you know, in the majority. And I think that's because, as I say, the majority of plastic bowls are not food safe for cats. The ceramics was a really interesting one, and I think that really is down to the ones that they've tested because again, we've got to look into which ceramics they've tested, why have they tested those, and you know, they obviously say make sure they're food safe, make sure there's no cracks within those ceramics, and that they're being washed properly. So generally speaking, that means that if they've got a little thing saying dishwasher safe, then they probably are one, food safe, less likely to crack and have those fine cracks in them, and two, you're going to be able to wash them with a hot wash. Doesn't mean you have to have a dishwasher, just means that you can at least do those things with those. And as Amaya said, you know, it's really important when it comes to, you know, making sure that the foods on there are lead-free, you know, that— sorry, the paints are lead-free, that you're not getting the leaching of those paint pigments into your foods. Especially if they're handmade ceramics, etc. So, you know, having that conversation with the person that's making them can ensure, as Amaya was saying, that they're going to be super conscious. This is going to feed my cat, my precious cat. Okay, please make sure that everything you're using is safe. And I'm sure they can do that. Stainless steel, you know, interesting. And often I have used stainless steel in the past. It is something that's there. It's just making sure again it's high quality, it's not, you know, some rip-off of steel and it's got loads of aluminium in and all sorts of other things going on. Those are really important bits. Glass actually seems to be the safest, so like, you know, a glass bowl of some description such as a Pyrex is a trade name, but you know, something that's, you know, safe at high temperatures. So again, you can wash it hot so that you can clean it off. Then the silicone mats that you get, the licky mats and things like that, again, just making sure they've got lots of nooks and crannies. If you're going to use those, make sure you're going to clean them properly afterwards. They haven't mentioned something that I use occasionally, which is a wooden board. So yeah, I was going to say that there is, you know, So some people get a chopping board, some people are really worried, well, that's going to have lots of cracks and grooves in it and everything else, but it's really interesting, the resins and saps and everything else that was within that wood can often be antibacterial in its own right. And so, you know, just making sure that you're healing and sealing the wood every time you can, it doesn't mean you have to do it every day, will actually make that a safer surface But actually, for those cats that are super conscious about somebody's playing with my whiskers while I'm trying to eat, you know, they've got space for that because it's on a flat surface. So there's no picking it out of the bowl and putting it down because it's already been put down and they can come along and decide what they're going to eat. So that's the bowls. And very lastly, please separate it from the water. Water goes in the bowl. Shelf, well away from the food.
In another room.
No, another room will do anyway. So that's great. I think, wow, we've got through so much. If you've got any further questions, guys, please do put them in the comments. It's great to see everybody who joined us today. Thank you from worldwide across the States, all the way to over here. Sorry for my colleagues who can't see all your comments, but I can. I'm sure they'll pop on later and answer a few.
Um, I do want to say something because this is— is this going on Judy Morgan's as well, right?
It is.
Yeah, yeah, because I have a webinar on her platform about transitioning to another diet. I don't specify on raw food, But it is transitioning to any other diet. And we— I dig in into this personality thing or, you know, I've tried to make up some personalities because in the end is an interpretation that you make, but it will help you and aid you with what I've said about behavior and nutrition. So if you want, it's there, 2 hours. Enjoy. Yeah, it is long. And it could have been longer.
And they can also find you through, um, Velvet for Cats.
Yeah, okay, Velvet for Cats in English and Paragatos in Spanish.
Oh yes, okay. And, um, and Colleen, uh, they can find you through, uh, The Little Carnivore. So, um, yeah, absolutely, on Instagram.
Yeah, I'm on Instagram. I also wrote an article on my website on transitioning cats to raw, and I think I made a video in French also on it. So if there are French people watching us—
hey, many languages you can get! You can get it in many languages.
You're making me feel totally inadequate. So that's the website, is that.com? Is that the little—
yeah,.com. Yeah, perfect.
Brilliant. So guys, if you want more information, please do go find Colleen and Amaya. You'll see me back on Tuesday talking about regenerative farming and the food pathways. So please do join me and Nick as we talk more stuff, more muck. It's more muck, that's what it is. So, and don't forget, you can also see us at the RFVS conference in July. So please, if you can't come direct, come through the internet and, you know, book a ticket so you can view us online. Look forward to seeing you there, and we'll be doing a roundup as well around that time, won't we? So we'll be doing our next Feline Friday conference.
Okay.
I don't know.
Now it is.
Now it's happening. Brilliant.
Yeah, it's not going to be on that day because I might be slightly busy on the 19th. So it'll be the week later. We might do a pre-record. We'll have a look. Okay. But look forward to seeing you. Thank you all for paying attention.
Thank you.
See you later.
Thank you, Colleen, for—
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
