EECP: The Missing Link in Your Patient’s Healing Journey | Dr. Priti Nanda Sibal | Dr Sibia

Good afternoon, Dr. Sibia, and welcome.

Good afternoon, how are you?

I am good. And Dr. Sibia, different topic, and we will also speak in English because majorly this is for North Indians and people who understand Hindi more, right? Right. The Dr. Sibia, around a year back, but I was unaware of the fact which can play a huge role, and it was the missing link in my practice. You were the founder of this association and you started this about many, many, many, many years back. So before I ask you, okay, how did you get into this and ECP, let me introduce you a little for people who don't know you, though I doubt anybody who doesn't know you, but still, Dr. Sukhinder Singh Sibiar completed his schooling at from Sherwood College, Nanital, and then ISC from University of Cambridge, MBBS from RIMS Ranchi Medical College, and MD from Government Medical College, Patiala. He served in Punjab government as an assistant professor and later founded Sibia Medical Center at Ludhiana. Right, and he has trained in India, UK, Israel, and China, introducing innovative treatments for heart health, arthritis, kidney stones, anti-aging, cancer, etc. So you all know he's a very futuristic person and, uh, and gives amazing results to his patients. He has been featured extensively in media including Doordarshan, UKTV, India Today, Life Positive, Sarika, Kadambri, and many more. Known as the father of chelation therapy, he participated in a panel discussion on ethical sustainable healthcare at the British House of Parliament and was mentioned by Dr. Abdul Kalam on the President of India's website. In his spare time, he enjoys painting, photography, chess, carom, and spending time with his two loyal dogs. He comes from a family of Indian Army officers, is happily married to Dr. Harpreet Kaur Sibia, and has two loving children and their spouses. All doctors interested in technology. And most importantly, he's been blessed with a granddaughter very, very, very recently. So we can congratulate him first before him to share his knowledge and experience with us. Congratulations, Dr. Sibya.

Thank you, thank you for that wonderful, uh, introduction. I'll try and live up to it.

Great. So, Dr. Sibia, doctors, anti-aging, passion to help people live healthy, those because of their own health journey, those who want to actually work with people who have worked so hard for many, many years, and So, how did you step into ECP? And please share your journey with us.

I'll split it into two parts. One is how I got into non-invasive and how I got into cardiology, non-invasive cardiology. In the year 1986, there's only When lithotripsy was invented, there was a— it was in the University of Munich, and there's an article in Reader's Digest that they have a waiting period of 8 years, uh, 8 months for treatment. So as a young doctor, this is 1985, I just started my career, and like any young person, you have your dreams, and that, that put a dream into me that, wow, there's equipment where you have 8 months waiting period for the patients. What if I have it? How great I'll feel if I've got a waiting period of 8 months for the patients. So that dream ultimately matured by us having a lithotripter. That was the first in North India and probably second or third in the country in 1991. And within the first 200 in the world. And, uh, like, you are very enterprising. My wife was the first lady doctor to be trained in lithotripsy in the world. Wow. So that put me into the field of non-invasive treatments. It was amazing. People would not believe it. Doctors would not believe it's possible to remove a kidney stone without surgery. And we were doing it, and we were the only ones doing it in North India. So, and in that process, when we are doing it, one day a friend of mine, uh, his name is Dr. Rakesh Kumar, a very close friend of mine. He's an eye specialist, retired director of health services. His mother had a cardiac problem, and he brought some literature to me that his sister had sent from UK. He said, Dr. Sibia, you're a medical specialist, I'm a specialist, just go through this and see if Mama can be saved from surgery. So that is where the whole story started. And one thing led to another. I read that, contacted doctors worldwide who were doing the treatments. We started with chelation therapy, later ventured into ECP, and that is how I am into non-invasive cardiology, via, by the initiative of a very close, dear friend of mine, Dr. Rakesh Kumar, without whom Maybe I would not have stepped into this.

Right, great. So, I was talking to you that day and you said, Preeti, this has been— this was a game changer in my practice. So why do you think ECP became a game changer in the management of heart health and in your practice?

Uh, in 1993, I referred a patient to, uh, Escorts Delhi, now Fortis. This patient had a heart problem. He had an MI. At that time, angiographies, angioplasties, bypass were not done in Punjab, so I had to refer the patient there. He went, he had a stent put in. By one of the very leading doctors, but that was the leading hospital in any case. Uh, unfortunately, within 2 months he again developed angina, and he said, I referred him to a hospital here. They said, you'll require another angiography and maybe you require a bypass surgery. So, uh, he said, I've not even paid off the loans of my previous stent, how can I go in for that? So he said, Dr. Simeon, do something. And this thing coincided with my— with the Dr. Rakesh Kumar giving those papers to me. As this forced me into getting into it, and, uh, that is how I got into it. And it was life-changing because this person who was having angina, after the treatment, people are asking him that, what have you done? You are looking younger, you are more active than before. He said, are you really— did you really have a heart problem?

Right.

So that was my first brush with, uh, non-invasive cardiology, that it was so successful that people said, no, no, he did not have a heart problem because he was so active after that. So it is a game changer. We can help those persons who have got no option, either financially they have got no option, or they are They are unfit for surgery. They are unfit for even angiography sometimes. Those who have already had stents and bypass and then they come to us. So it's a game changer that gives such immense joy to us that we are able to serve such patients who literally are waiting for their death, who the doctors have, who have visited, that they have told them nothing can be done. And they take that as a death sentence, that nothing can be done. I want to live. I want to live. I want to live. So once we can help these patients, it is a miracle. It's a life changer, not before me, it is a life changer for everyone.

So Dr. Sibia, I was speaking to one of the cardiologists yesterday, and that cardiologist is also very futuristic. And you know, one line he said in our discussion which I want to share here with everybody who's listening to us, he said Dr. Preeti, I don't think ECP as an alternate therapy. It is approved by FDA, it is approved in our literature. I feel this is the first line, and people who cannot get benefited from them are the ones who should go for medicine and for surgery and, you know, whatever else. So what is your opinion on this?

Uh, I fully agree with that. Uh, in fact, I will say that everything is alternative to something else. So we should not even call it alternative medicine, firstly. Other is that when we have a problem, any type of problem, the first thing we do is that we try and treat the thing, the disease, with our kitchen. The kitchen medicine is the first medicine which comes into play. If that does not work, Then we go in for the medicines. If they don't work, then we—

Sorry guys, I think we've lost Dr. CBR for a minute, um, but he'll join us back. But till then, I can share my experience that when I came to know about this and I went deeper and deeper into this and learned this and trained this I actually talked to myself saying, why did somebody not tell me about this before, right? From heart patients to anti-aging to sports, everywhere this can be useful. This is non-invasive, so why not, right? So we'll wait for Dr. Sibia. Meanwhile, if you have any questions, please share them in the chat box. I will just be back with you in a minute. Let me just speak to Dr. Sibia and check. Where is he? Just give me a minute, please. Bitch. Sorry for this technical glitch, guys. Just, I'm trying to get Dr. Sibya back on screen. Wow, thank you very much. Uh, Dr. Sibia is back. I am adding him on stage. And Dr. Bai, thanks for telling. And my mistake, ECP is enhanced external counterpulsation. It is a non-invasive therapy for heart health. And, uh, hello, Dr. Sibia.

Hello.

Yes, happy to have you back. Sorry, we really lost you. Yeah, but we can't see you still.

I don't know.

Do you— is your camera on?

The camera is on. Let me switch over to the— to—

or you can drop out once and join again, Dr. Sibia. Till then, we will have our audience wait for you because, right, as I know, they also know that this is going to be very, very interesting. So meanwhile, I will— so what happened was, how did my journey start? You know, first I realized nobody has told me this. But more importantly, I visited CBI Medical Center in Ludhiana, and Dr. CBI did some tests for me. Now, when he— yes, Dr. CBI, I can see you. So when he did those tests for me, he said, Dr. Preeti, you need EACP to feel better. Of course, I had done my echo and my diastolic function was not optimum. Otherwise, you don't know what to do more. And this was last year, so it took me a full year to understand ACP, learn it. Dr. Sibia trained me, and the type of results which you get, and as Dr. Sibia said, the type of confidence you feel when you are able to heal these people It is amazing. We are happy to have Dr. Sibia back. So, Dr. Sibia, I understand that after doing ECP for so many years, you are planning to teach ECP, and you have been teaching ECP to doctors like me for the last 20+ years, right?

Uh, we plan teaching ECP to anyone who's interested. Well, I believe that ECP is the future not only of cardiology but future of the healthcare system of the country. Uh, as you had said, uh, my panel discussion in the British Parliament, they also said the same thing, that we require a system which is ethical and which is sustainable. We require that in every country. In fact, we have made a roadmap, uh, which we want to present to the government and to the insurance companies, how ECP can be of immense value to everyone and can change the scenario of healthcare in the country. So for this, education of the doctors is important.

You have been training doctors who come to you for the last 20, 20-plus years. But we still don't see ECP as becoming the mainstay. Sorry to ask, but what common misconceptions exist around ECP, and why are doctors not training in ECP when this is so, so, so beautiful?

I think one of the main things is that people feel, how can there be such a simple answer to a complex problem?

Beautiful.

Yes, uh, where a major surgery is done and with all the risk and everything, how is it possible that a simple machine can take care of it? So I think this is one misconception. The other is that the insurance has not played its role properly in India. Uh, abroad in US, everywhere, the insurance is playing a big role. In India, they are not playing their own role. The other thing, then you have some other issues like awareness. We are not aware. The Indian education policy for the last 75 years has failed, and that is why the awareness is not there.

So, Dr. Sibia, how do you think it can be integrated in any doctor's practice, and how health coaches can use this successfully to help their patients feel better?

Uh, I won't say it can be integrated, it must be integrated. What do you do? You give a supplement, you give a vitamin, you give a mineral, whatever you give, unless the circulation is there, it will not reach the organs, the tissues, right? Unless circulation is there, the toxins in the body cannot be removed from any tissue. So any medicine, any drug, any supplement, any mineral, any vitamin to be really effective, you require proper circulation, because without that, it will not reach the target organ. So it is going to benefit whatever treatment is done. If you integrate this, the result is likely to be much better, because only then, with the circulation, will the medicine or the, uh, your, uh, nutrition reach the right place.

Great. So, Dr. Sibia, at least according to my understanding, I see 3 areas where ECP can play a huge role. One, obviously heart disease, whatever patients, and you know, which are clearly, clearly given in the guidelines that for these patients ECP should be tried and will benefit. Second, anti-aging, or maybe, you know, patients who come to with breathlessness with you. Especially, I was reading that collaterals are less formed when we are young, and more and more collaterals our body naturally forms as we grow older.

Correct.

And that is one of the reasons that when an old person has a heart attack, they survive.

Correct.

Right. But when a young person has an heart attack, because the collaterals are not developed We get to hear a lot of news which we don't want to hear.

Correct.

And the third, of course, I feel very strongly is people who are into marathons and into sports. It can be a very beautiful tool for them too. What is your take on this? And do you think these are the three categories which can help, or there is any other category also?

Uh, the first category is all persons. Who are at risk of heart disease. That is, it can be patients, persons who have got a family history, who are diabetics, who are hypertensives, who are overweight, who are doing a sedentary lifestyle, who are having improper sleep. All of them are at risk of heart disease, so they should take it as a preventive measure. And those persons who have any symptom of heart disease— it can be chest pain, it can be breathlessness, it can be feeling unexpectedly tired, or any other symptom— they are not yet diagnosed, are not severe enough to have a surgery or stent, they can be there. And of course, wellness. In wellness, I'll just give you one example. I think that will explain everything. An old man, a saint, a Babaji, came to me. We did the treatment, and we did treatment for the heart. His hearing improved, his vision improved, and his beard was absolutely gray. We could see streaks of white or black hair. So this is my personal experience, what, uh, with ECP. So it— that proves that it has an effect everywhere.

It is—

I call it anti-aging.

Great. So Dr. Sibia, why do you think doctors and health coaches should join this training program? And what is it that will be, you know, shared in this training program, and how will this help them?

One is that we need to have a scientific approach. On joining a training program, they will know exactly what science is related to the ECP. They will know what the indications are, what the contraindications are. How to stay away from trouble, how to benefit the patients to the maximum, how to be legally right, how to interact with the patient. Interaction means how to approach the patient for ECP, how to take the history, what investigations are to be done, how the consent form is to be filled up and signed. And other than that, of course, they will have a— they'll be able to help so many persons, so many patients. It can be a life changer for any doctor who goes into ECP practice. It is, of course, uh, the financial gains are of course over there.

Great. Um, Dr. Sibia, any message you want to give to the doctors who are hearing us? And, um, Anything you want to tell them?

I think every doctor should consider it, not only for the patient, even for themselves. Yes, every doctor has got patients who come to them who are unfit for any treatment, who want wellness. In fact, I'll say other than the heart, I think wellness is what is very important. And the first time I was getting into ECP, I received a message from someone in California who had kept an ECP machine in his house for his own wellness, and he, he had got a new one and wanted to sell that one. So that is the role. Once we are aware of it, I think in the, well, you know, wellness center, it has got tremendous role. Wellness is not about the heart of the whole body.

Why should we fall sick and then have? And almost every second patient, Dr. Sibyam, comes to my practice, they ask me once, they come to me for diabetes, for gut health, for mental health, and they ask, because somewhere that fear is there. But unfortunately, I was also not able to do anything for them till last month. So, um, thank you, Dr. C.P. for this. There are a few questions.

I just had one more, one more thing about wellness. Uh, there's a close friend of mine, he's a very senior advocate. Uh, when he goes to Mata Vaishno Devi, he comes back and to relax, he has ECP done.

Very great. So, Dr. C.P., Uh, this doctor from Oxie Hill wants to ask, can we do it for prevention also? For prevention also?

Yes, yes. I think, as I said, that all those who are at risk— and when I say at risk, I see not only what I had mentioned, but I think we are all at risk of heart disease.

I agree with you. And what I understand now is if we are younger, then it's more important that we do it. Rather than wait when we age.

Let us understand what, uh, how the human heart behaves. Yes, we all start developing blockages the day we are born because of our environment. As blockages increase, the collaterals start opening up and angiogenesis starts. That's the nature we are feeling, and this balance is maintained. As long as this balance is maintained, we are healthy, we don't have a heart problem. As soon as the balance is not there, then our angina and all starts. So once we take it preventively, we are helping the nature's process of angiogenesis and increasing the microcirculation. So, uh, everyone can take it, everyone should take it after the age of 40, I think. As a prevention.

Great. So a lot of people are asking what is the cost of the machine. I can tell you because I have bought one recently, um, anywhere from 15 lakhs to 25 lakhs. Um, and of course in this training program we will share with you all the options available in India and you can choose from them. Um, and I hope this is helpful. So So a doctor wants to know, I'm MD anesthesia, can I practice ECP?

Yes, yes, definitely he can practice it.

Great.

He can practice because, because see, he studied the medicine books. I want to study the medicine books. This is mentioned in your Harrison's, is mentioned in Braunwald's, is mentioned in Hertz's, is mentioned in the Current Diagnosis and Treatment 2024. Is mentioned everywhere. So it is part of your curriculum in your medical college.

Great. Uh, Dr. Sibya, we have another question from Frank Amol. Can enhanced ECP be done for ischemic limb or leg ulcer patients?

For ischemic limb, yes, we can do it. Peripheral artery disease, we have been doing it. We are doing it with good success rate. But there's one catch in it. Yeah, if there is ischemia, it will help. Is there extreme ischemia? It will not help, right?

So it has done at the right time, and the history will play a very important role before we can tell what— how much benefit it will give.

Correct.

Right, Dr. Sibia, if I tell you to go back 30 years when you started ECP and build your practice again, will you still be doing ECP practice or will you do something differently?

Uh, I will still be doing ECP. I'll be doing it with more confidence than when I started doing ECP. I'll be having more machines than what I'm having now. I have got around 5-6 machines. I'll have more than that in that case, and I'll promote it. In fact, it is my dream that ECB should be available throughout the country, and, uh, we are willing to help anyone who wants to do that. We are willing to help them in setting up, we are willing to guide them, we are willing to, to promote them. We are willing to help them in every way. Even I think, uh, with your expertise as not only a doctor but also as an MBA, maybe we can develop a franchise program for this.

We are definitely looking into it, guys. But what I want to tell you is I took a lot of time to even come to know about it, and then a lot of time to make my decision to do it. I think we should not waste too much time. It is an amazing non-invasive technology approved by FDA. Doctors like Dr. Sibia have been doing it for 30+ years. So why keep our patients away from the benefit of this? We can contribute in a big way in helping people live healthy, helping people live long. And helping people enjoy their life when they are living long, right? If that's also your goal, to help your patients that way, do join this training program. I'm going to share the link of the training program below, below this YouTube link. I'm also going to share a link where you can see how the ECP is done. I am based out in Gurgaon. The training is going to happen in Gurgaon, Sector 55. Dr. CPI is based in Ludhiana. You can visit his center anytime. He's the most friendly, loving, and hospitable doctor I've ever met. I can tell you, when I visited his center, every 2 hours I was eating something delicious, yummy, and in between I was learning so much. That it was a game changer for me. Yes, but it was a very, very, very memorable visit for me. Thank you, Dr. Sibya, for that. Thank you for training.

I'd like to, I'd like to share my patient of just a month back, right? He came with the ejection fraction of 25 and now it is 55. The ejection fraction improved from 25 to 55.

That is the beauty.

Another patient had come who was— this was a couple of months back. He was lined up for, uh, he was advised a heart transplant and he did not want to go in for it. In that patient, we did functional medicine, administration also, ECP also, and ESMR also, and he does not feel the requirement for the heart transplant now.

Wow.

His interview is on my web, on my YouTube also.

Great. And Frank Amol also has another question: is it different from cartography?

From cartography? A cartography is a test, it is not a treatment.

Exactly. Great.

Cartography is a wonderful test. Uh, it is a, it is a non-invasive. It studies 256 heartbeats. And after trying 256 heartbeats, uh, within minutes your report is ready on the computer. It tells us the— it tells us which part of the myocardium heart is getting how much blood, how much oxygen, or how much load is there on the heart, electric activity, rhythmogenicity, compliance, elasticity of the blood vessels, and a lot more. Uh, it is a wonderful test, and it is the only test which non-invasively can tell us whether a patient has got microvascular disease.

Great. So some people are asking about what's the cost of training, where it is being done, when it is being done. I've left a number there, 98684. 78149, right? And, uh, you will get all the information from this number. Do write on this number, do call on this number. We are happy to share information, and I will be personally looking forward to meeting most of you on the 26th and 27th of February. 2 days, 10 hours each training program where Dr. Sibya will share all the learnings he has had in the last 30 years, and I will share mine of the last few months and whatever experience I've had. But I'm telling you, in totality, it will be a great learning experience. And next day onwards, you will be able to help more patients of yours and definitely in a much, much, much better way. Dr. Sibia, anything you want to add before we say bye-bye to everybody and let them call on our number and check more details on the training?

In 2 days, you'll be able to— I'll be able to share my experience of 30 years. So in 2 days, you will know you will be 30 years ahead of where you are today in ECP.

Wow, thank you, Dr. Sibia. And I promise you, he will share each and everything. Nothing will be hidden because our goal is not to train you. Our goal is to make sure that you do it in your clinics and help your patients feel better, age better, live longer, and live smarter. Thank you, Dr. Sibia, for your time. Thank you very much, and see you all on the 26th of February. Thank you. Bye-bye, take care, bye!