You Can’t Change This (And Neither Can They): The Truth About Temperament in Relationships
In this episode of Stronger in the Difficult Places, Dr. Zoe Shaw interviews relationship coach Dr. Denham Slade about temperament – a biologically rooted, largely unchangeable aspect of personality that shapes how people think, feel, and act. Dr. Slade introduces his CORE personality model (Comfort & Connection, Optimism, Resolution, Exactness & Excellence), explaining each of the four temperament clusters, their typical strengths, predictable challenges, and how they manifest in romantic, familial, and parenting contexts. The conversation covers why temperament has been under‑discussed in therapy, the role of secondary temperaments and environmental influences, and practical tools such as the online CORE assessment. Dr. Slade and Dr. Shaw discuss concrete communication strategies for mismatched pairings, the importance of recognizing and honoring each partner’s innate drives, and how to move from shame to health without trying to change the core temperament. The episode ends with resources – the book Unlock Your Core Potential, the assessment site, and a tiered coaching program – for listeners who want to apply the model in their own lives.
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Hello, welcome to Stronger in the Difficult Places. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe. So, you know, I do a lot of work helping women change themselves, really fix their relationship with themselves. And I know a lot of you guys are definitely trying to change people in your life, although I tell you, stop that. Just stop. It doesn't work. Today we're gonna talk about something that is unchangeable, something that you cannot fix or change about yourself, something that you cannot fix or change about your partner. I'm very excited to welcome Dr. Denham Slade, and I say it with a laugh. Because we're always trying to change, and when you really get this concept of your temperament, you can't change it, and you can't change your partner's temperament. So what in the world do you do? Well, we're going to talk to Dr. Slade about it. Dr. Denham Slade is a relationship and individual coach, a family life educator, and an author based in Georgia, Utah. He developed the Core C O R E personality profile system and the Healthy Happy. coaching program with nearly 30 years of experience helping clients improve relationships. He has created this book and this concept of the core about your personality, which is so, so good. I just had to have him on today. So listen in about the things you can't change about yourself or your partner. Dr. Dunham, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. You are still one of— I think we're still under 2 hands. Um, yeah, less than 10 fingers of men that we've had On this podcast. So we do, we do love men, but we rarely have them. And so thank you for coming on today.
Well, thanks for having me. I feel honored. I didn't know I was in such small company.
You are. It might be, it might be under a handful, but I'll just say maybe 2. Um, but I wanted to have you on because what you talked about in your book was so powerful for me. And the reason why is because— so even in my book, I talk about temperament. Temperament is this thing that I have never really heard many professionals— we didn't learn much about it in grad school, right? It's just like, there's this thing, it's temperament, you're born with it. Okay. And then, you know, it interacts with environment, it creates personality, it does all these things. And I've never heard anyone deep dive into temperament. And can you tell— and of course, we know that that has to have such a huge effect on our relationships. Can you tell me why you think people have not done a deep dive into temperament?
Yeah, I, I think, I think you kind of alluded to it there. It's, um, when, when you're in the business of helping people change or, or even trying to make changes in your own life, um, it, it, it feels kind of daunting to try to incorporate something that doesn't change. And so I, I think that, um, I think we kind of— I mean, there's lots of research on it. It's been studied for decades, and we know that, that infants come into life high or low on, uh, you know, different variables, and that you have a temperament that then is unchangeable. We, we know that. It's well researched, it's well documented, and then we just kind of put it on the shelf because, because what do you do with something that is not changeable?
Yes, yes. And so I just want to, I just want to echo what you just said. So humans are born with a temperament. We're born with a temperament that is un— And this matters so much because your partner, dear friend who's listening out
there,
has a temperament that is unchangeable. You do too. But I think the most disconcerting part is that your partner has a temperament that is unchangeable. And so what then do we do? Can you, can you back us up and can we talk about this framework that you developed? Yeah. And like, where do we start?
Yeah, so, um, that's a good question. So I, I, uh, there— my model is called CORE,
right?
Um, and it's, uh—
Can you hold your book up again? Sure. Yes, Unlock Your Core Potential.
Unlock Your Core Potential: What You Can and Can't Change About Your Personality. Um, and, um, I I'd always been really interested in personality. It's one of the things that kind of drew me to this field. Um, but I, as I worked with people, I had never really found a model that was super consistent with what I saw in my office. Um, or they were so frankly, so kind of complicated, like the Enneagram,
right?
Um, that is really great, but it's, but it's so complicated. It's not very user-friendly for about half of the population.
Right.
And, um, And I was going through some, some personal struggles in my own life trying to figure some things out and kind of in the midst of, uh, really of, of depression, um, on the heels of, you know, we lost a son to a tragic accident. And, um, and I, I was just, I was dealing with a lot of, um, stressors and then, and then some complex shame that got triggered from from some mistakes that I made and just trying to dig myself out. And I was kind of desperate for answers and trying to figure out how to really get back on my feet. Yeah. And I actually went to my wife one day and I said, I do not know what to do. I just, I don't know how to get out of this hole that I'm in. And I keep, you know, I keep doing these same stupid things and I'm really struggling. And she said, she looked at me and she said, Denim, I don't know that those, that that's ever going to change. You, that's, it's, you've always been like that.
Hmm.
And at first I was like crushed, you know, like that, that, that can't be true is where my brain went. Because if, because if that's true, then how do I ever, how do I ever move forward?
Right.
If, if these— if, you know, if the— if my struggles to, to, to heal and to move forward were so tied to my temperament, and, and if temperament isn't changeable, then, then what do you do? And, um, and that's when, kind of like you said, I— over the next few days, I, I remembered— I remembered back to my, my doctorate studies, temperament. And I don't— you know, I I kind of, I kind of think that God gave me a little bit of nudge there to, to remind, bring that to my remembrance a little bit. But, but that I remembered that and I'm like, oh, huh, maybe, maybe there are some answers there that I need to, I need to, to, uh, look at. And I think when you've struggled, um, hitting your head against the same things over and over again,
right,
or, or hitting your head against the same things with your partner, right? You know, that I, I've been married for 31 years now. And the, the very same things that I loved— Ellen is my wife's name— that I loved about Ellen 35 years ago are the same things that I love and admire today. And the same things that drove me crazy then are the same things that bug me today.
Yeah.
And, and when you've tried to do that, then, um, then learning how to work with that becomes really important. So I, I dove in deep on the research. I dove in deep on, on the research that was out there, and then I spent years was collecting and analyzing data and patterns. And, and I, you know, I, I identified 4, um, 4 temperament clusters. Um, you know, the research shows that there are 9 temperament variables that infants come into life high or low on, and, and those 9 variables very, very consistently cluster into 4, 4 temperaments. And, um, So that's kind of how, how the model got, got created. And, and so learning how to work, learning how to work with the unchangeable parts of you— every single temperament has super predictable strengths and challenges. And we have such a tendency to think that other people's brains work the way that ours do.
We do. Yeah.
That, that it really gets us in trouble unless you're married to somebody that has, you know, the same temperament that you do. Um,
how likely is that, do you think, that people are married to people with the same temperament?
I don't see, I don't see a lot of that. I now— E's, you know, E is, is, uh, is the, the final temperament in the core model. And I actually see a fair amount of E's that marry each other.
Okay.
Um, but most other people don't end up marrying people with the same temperament that they have. And most of the time it doesn't work real great because then you end up with the same strengths and the same weaknesses.
Yes. And
there's not a lot of complementarity going on.
So interesting. Okay. So for the woman or the man out there who's thinking, okay, this makes a lot of sense. How, how do I know what my temperament is, what my partner's is? Can we talk about those 4 clusters?
Yeah.
Maybe we don't have to dive into the other 9 aspects. They can read your book for that. But can we talk about just those 4? Yeah. There's—
Yeah. So, so CORE is an acronym. And, um, C. So, and what temperament really is in its, in its simplest form is, is the underlying reasons why we do the things that we do and why we don't do the things that we don't do.
Okay.
Um, I think if you kind of whittle it all down, that's kind of the, it, it really is kind of the, the why. And C, C stands for comfort and connection.
Okay.
And, and Cs are motivated by comfort and connection. They are, they are the feelers in our society.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they, they are in tune with the emotional environment differently than almost anybody else. You know, some people can hear things that other people can't hear.
Yes.
Some people can smell things that— I have a daughter who has such a good sniffer. I mean, she can smell things that other people can't smell. Um, C's feel things that other people can't feel.
Yeah,
they're, they're plugged into the emotional milieu Differently and more sensitively than anybody else. And the primary, the primary kind of emotional component for the C revolves around emotional settlement.
Okay.
Cs really want to get and to stay emotionally settled. And when they become discombobulated, when they become emotionally unsettled, it's like they're living in a sandstorm. They're discombobulated and they have a hard time, and that leads to their drive for comfort and connection. They like comfortable clothes, comfortable furniture, comfortable emotions. Um, they, they don't like conflict. They like things to be smooth. C's really, really want to be seen and understood. Um, but they have a hard time fighting for that.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of times C's feel invisible in social situations. Um, they kind of tend to sit back and wait to be noticed, wait to be invited in. And so it kind of creates this conundrum where even though they really desperately want to feel seen and, and And valued, they have a really hard time with the risk and vulnerability required to get that. Um, the C brain is, is really good at making connections among things, uh, and that takes time,
right?
Um, a lot of times I'll ask a C a question and they'll kind of look at me like a deer in the headlights.
They're processing.
Yeah. And then later that day, they'll like send me a text or an email and they will have connected everything we've ever talked about.
Right.
Um, but it just takes time, and, and the C brain kind of will, will settle on something, and then, and then it kind of circles around like a merry-go-round, and then something else will come up. And there's a lot, a lot going on under the surface, but that's kind of the, the 401 of Cs.
The first thing I wondered is, would you consider Cs like what's called empaths?
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm— I, I think, I think there's a little bit of confusion in, in what It means to be an empath. But yes, C's are, um, are very naturally in tune, like, like empaths are.
Yeah. Okay. That makes a lot of
sense. Good question. Um, O stands for optimism. And, and O's are, are the idealists among us. Um, they, they see the possibility in people, in things. Um, O's are the only temperament that lives in the present, and, and the primary emotional driver for the O brain revolves around fun. Oh. O's want to be enjoying themselves. Pleasant emotion is the number one driver for the O brain. They bring really buoyant, um, light, bright energy to situations. They're the most people-oriented of the temperaments. Um, they're super spontaneous. They, they shift gears really quickly and easily. They, um, they are really quick to accommodate, um, any opportunity to have fun. These are the people you can call and say, hey, I just saw an airfare to Hawaii for $300, but we, we've got to leave tomorrow. Yeah. And, and an O, if, if, if something seems that it seems like it will be fun, an O will move heaven and earth to try to accommodate that opportunity.
I already see the downside of O.
Yes. What, like what? What do you think?
Well, I just imagine, number one, the first thing that popped into my head was, this is like maybe the Peter Pan. What is it called? Peter Pan. I can't think of what it's called. But, you know, someone who has that kind of Peter Pan personality, and for a woman possibly, or even a man who's very grounded, and maybe needs time to prepare, doesn't transition well, who's a planner, This could drive you crazy.
Bonkers. Yes.
Yes. Yes. And you can take it all very personally and you can also apply morality to it because I know that part of, you know, some of our issues in relation— in relationships is that we tend to apply morality to someone's behavior, temperament. Totally. Right.
For leverage. Right?
Yes. Yes.
Because if I can take the emotional high ground or the moral high ground, Then it, it justifies my opinion and my, my position. And yeah, that's a, that's really good insight. And, and you're right, some of the most predictable challenges that come with O-ness are— and, and it's, it's both they're living in the present and, and the fact that they're motivated by fun.
Yeah.
Um, O's, O's have a, have a really difficult time with any negative emotion. Um, they have low tolerance for conflict, they have low tolerance for negative emotion. Um, and they typically will, will avoid both of those at all costs if they can. Um, and, and, and O will typically avoid conflict or negative emotion over, over being understood, over being right, over getting their way. Um, they always have a, have a difficult time planning because they don't know, they don't know how they're going to— they live in the present and they don't know how they're going to feel when the time comes. Mm-hmm.
Right.
So, you know, what do you want to do for, for Christmas break or for, you know, for Valentine's Day's coming up? You know, what do you want to do for the— even what do you want to do this weekend? The O has a really hard time thinking about something before it's time to do so because they don't want to commit to something and then either limit possibilities, um, or, um, not feel like doing it when the time comes. Um,
I have a good relationship with O's, and you are giving me PTSD right now.
Right, sorry.
Of course, not truly. I hate to use a clinical term, right, jokingly, but this— I, I'm, I'm feeling it, really. I have a visceral response to all of this, which is very interesting.
Well, and relationally, that's such a good point because O's also bring such great things to the table.
Yeah.
Um, they're, they're positive. They're They, they— O's love the process of wrapping their brains around things. They, they see the possibility in things and they love daydreaming. Um, they never met an idea that they didn't like. And O's love the process of figuring things out. They're really good at rallying the troops and getting things going. Um, O's have a difficult time maintaining momentum.
Yes.
Because the exciting part for the O brain is figuring it out, and then, and then comes All of the details and the—
Drudgery.
Um, the— yeah, the— all those negative aspects of like following through and those kinds of things. If an O is having fun, you have a really hard time getting them to stop something. One more game, you know, one more mile, one more, one more whatever. Yeah, they just want to keep going. But if it's not fun, if it's boring, if there's, if there's a lot of hassle or resistance,
I
always have a really hard time pushing through those negative emotions.
Yeah. Yeah.
That makes sense.
It makes complete sense. And I'm sure there are people out here listening saying, oh yes, maybe that's me. Or, oh yes, I see that in, in my partner. Okay. So let's get, get to the last one. Yeah.
So the, so the R, R stands for resolution and Rs are motivated by getting things done. They are, um, they are driven by accomplishment and the, the, the primary emotional driver for the R brain is important to understand because when, when something undone comes to the attention of the R— lost keys, a lost TV remote, an unfinished homework assignment or project— it bugs the R. It creates emotional frustration.
Yeah.
And, and re— and that frustration is what the R is trying to resolve. And so whatever, whatever is on the, the screen of the R takes up the whole screen, and they, they want to resolve that. But once it's resolved, it— they don't take a lot of, of pride or satisfaction in the finished product. It's not like, oh, this wall needed painted, I painted it, and now look, I just love the wall. No, it's like, the wall, it was bugging me that it wasn't done. I did it and now it's not bugging me anymore.
Yeah.
Um, ours are, ours are the only temperament that lives in the future. Um, ours are, ours are intense emotionally. Um, their intensity is really good at blowing through obstacles. Our, the, our brain is focused on where they're going and everything between here and there just kind of blurs into the background. Um, almost, almost all of the emotionally frustrating things for Rs revolve around barriers to getting stuff done. Conversations taking too long, um, things being unnecessarily or, or felt unnecessarily complicated or too much hassle. Um, they, they, they just, they want to be able to get things done. Ours are, are very serial-focused. Whatever they focused on, whatever they're focused on is, um, takes up the whole screen. And, and, and then once they're done, they move on to something that, that is next on the list. Um, relationally managing what and, what and when has the ability to get on the radar screen is really important for ours. Um, Because if you're, if you're in a relationship with an R and you're trying to get their attention, it can be difficult because whether they're on their phone or they're, they're, you know, they're reading or they're talking to somebody else, whatever they're doing gets— it's like the Eye of Sauron. It is like,
right,
you know, 100% focus. And so it— you can be like, Mom, you know, Mom, hey Mom. And, and it can be really challenging to get on the screen. And then when you do, sometimes you're like, oh, sorry, I got— because then it's like this intense, like— What do you need? You know, what do you want? And it can, it can feel really intense that, that way. Um, one of the best things about being in a relationship with an R is that almost everything that comes in the R brain comes out the R mouth.
Hmm.
They are, they are the most external processors of anybody. And so you hardly ever wonder what's going on under the surface of the R, of the R brain. You, what you see is what you get. And, and, you know, relationally that builds trust.
Right.
Um, when there's a high level of transparency, um, it, it builds trust in the relationship because you don't wonder what else is going on back there that you don't, that you don't know about. Um, ours, ours get over things super quickly. Um, you know, ain't nobody got time to, to sit and, and, and stew. They, their brain is, is moving on, and, um, which is great, but, but they're super They tend to be super intense as well. And so a lot of times they'll, um, they'll like, you know, drop a hand grenade and then they feel better because it's off their chest and resolved.
Yes.
And then they're like, how long are you gonna stay mad?
Right.
And you're like, well, uh, you just, you know, bit my head off. I might need a second
to
recover. Does that make sense?
Oh, it does. It does. I'm, I'm curious. I want you to do the E and then let us know what You are, and I will tell you what I imagine I am.
Yeah. Okay. E stands for exactness and excellence, and E's are motivated by improving and perfecting things. The, the— what the E brain does is the E brain looks at what has happened to make it better for next time. That's, that's the, that's the main process. And so E's live in the past Because they're looking at what has transpired to try to make it better for the next time. E's are very— E's are the most internal processors of anybody. Um, when they get disorganized emotionally, they go inside and, and try to get things. E's are led by logic. They want things to make sense. When things, when things don't make sense, it really bothers the E brain. Interesting. And they, they, they, they sit and chew on it until Um, until they, until they figure out where it belongs. Um, E's have a lot of confidence in the conclusions that they draw. They research things well, they think through things really thoroughly, and, and then they, they settle on the, the right way to do something. And if you disagree with an E, their tendency is to think that you're wrong.
Mm-hmm.
It's not necessarily that you're dumb. It's like, if you knew what I knew, or if you had the data that I had, You would also land on this obviously correct conclusion.
Yes, yes.
That's kind of the thought process that the E brain goes through. Es are also intense emotionally, but their intensity is different than the R. Rs and Es are more intense than Cs and Os, but the E intensity is like— it's like a diesel engine. It's like a train just like chugging down the path. And, and one of the biggest strengths that Es bring to relationships and to humanity Is tenacity. E's have tremendous ability to persevere in their pursuit of doing it right. And if E's will say things all the time, I just want it to be right, I just wanted to get it right, I just wanted— you know, there's, there's like this pursuit. And it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter if it's how to load the dishwasher, how to clean the toilet. Um, I had a client that got really into making vanilla. And she researched, you know, beans from different parts of the, the world and how that affected the flavor of the vanilla.
Right.
Um, when the E brain is thinking, it's trying to figure out the best way to do whatever it's chewing on. And then they have this tremendous tenacity. Es hate to feel rushed. Um, Es, Es like, Es are all about thoroughness. Um, and, and they relationally, uh, a couple of sort of, I don't know, just sort of, um, things to keep in mind if you are an E or if you're in a relationship with an E. It's really important. There's a very different message between something could be better and something's not good enough.
Ah, that's so good. Yeah.
And, and so often the message comes across as it's not good enough because it's not the ideal.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and that's, that's really dangerous. And then, and then the other thing that E's— E's will predictably stall movement in a couple of places. One, they'll identify like this perfect way to do something, and if they don't feel like they have the resources to do it right, whether that's financial or energy or time or whatever, an E has a really hard time doing something halfway. And so ease will stall movement at that crossroads, waiting sometimes for years until they feel like they're going to be able to do it the right way. I had, I had one, one client who was, had written a letter to his adult children, some things that he wanted to communicate. He worked on it for 2 years, waiting, waiting for like the perfect moment. To, to address that. And so if you get an E then struggling with shame,
yes,
um, they can really get stuck, um, not wanting to address their, their complex shame because they, they don't feel like they're, they're going to be able to— they're not confident they're going to be able to do it
well
enough. Well enough. Um, the other, the other place, um, and we'll talk about this when you're on my podcast, um, But the other place where, where Es get stuck is staying in something too long. Um, Es have this like, no, there's a way to make this work. Perseverance. And dang it, I'm just gonna— I— and so, so an E will stay in a situation longer than is healthy because of their strength of tenacity and perseverance. And, and so they'll, they'll ride something right into the ground, um, because they're just— they just know that there's a way to make it work.
Wow, wow, wow. You know, I'm thinking about a client of mine who I know for sure is an E, and I can see how all of these behaviors, um, really interfere in, in his relationship. Um, this is fascinating, absolutely fascinating.
What do you think you are?
And we're going to talk about application in a minute. I, I would say that I am predominantly an R. I have some aspects of C and O. Um, but I'm predominantly an R, which is really, really interesting. Um, and I'm sure, you know, when you, it's kind of like the Enneagram, when you look at it in the whole, there's like different aspects of it. But what are you?
I am an OC.
Okay. An OC. Yeah.
And you kind of bring up a, an important point there where, um, most, most, so most everybody comes into life with a predominant primary type. And, and then most people have a pretty strong secondary type. And my research, my research indicated that, that a lot of times our secondary type is environmentally influenced.
Yes.
Um, I've had the opportunity to work with multiple members of the same family on various occasions over my long career, and, and a lot of times they'll have different primary types And they'll share a secondary type. Um, and, and I, and I think, you know, I don't know if I'll say this. You can, um, I don't know if you want me going down this road or not, but when an infant is born,
yes,
she or he has billions of neurons.
Yeah.
And hardly any neural pathways connecting those neurons together. And literally How our brains get wired is a co-creative process that occurs between the infant and her or his caregivers. And, and so you get this dynamic interplay between the temperament of the infant and, and the environment.
Yeah.
And literally our brains become this neurological filter that, that in that, that who we are on a temperament level is kind of filtered through as we engage with the, with the outside world. And then you end up having that, that combination of, of environmental and biological or nature and nurture variables coming together to, to form your personality. And so, so sometimes somebody will, will be like 51/49.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there, there'll be a lot of both. Like, yeah, my oldest daughter is an EO. But she's got she's got a lot of both. You know, she's like I don't know she's probably like 55% E and 45% O.
Yeah, I think I'm probably that way with R and and and um C
C
yeah but I I'm crazy I'm a thrill seeker and so that's where that O comes in but my thrill seeking is is is a different kind of impulsive if I should put it like I'm a planner. Like, everything is planned out, but as long as all that's planned out, I'm happy to like go on a, you know, crazy impulsive trip. Yeah, I'm gonna come right back to my plan, if that makes sense. Yes.
Well, and that could be— that could be ourness, not onus.
It probably is. Yeah. So maybe it could—
you could— you could have O, but— but ours are— ours actually shift gears faster than anybody else.
Then I'm definitely just a plain
R because whatever Yeah, whatever gets on the R screen gets the attention.
Yes.
Um, once it, once it gets on the screen, it's like it gets the attention. And, and the difference there again, which is where temperament really comes in, is the underlying reason why.
Yeah.
So like if, if you, you know, if you had everything organized and or whatever and somebody said, hey, let's go to Hawaii, and, and you're like, oh, that sounds super fun. You know, it's, it's the fun of it that's motivating you. That's more onus. But if you're like, yeah, I'm like, I'm down for an adventure, you know, or, you know, then let's, let's do— then it's, then it's not necessarily being driven by that drive for pleasant emotion. It might be a challenge. It might be the logistics even of like figuring out how to do it. So, um, so that's where—
Yeah.
Yeah, that's where really understanding the, the reasons behind The behavior and the cognitions is really where you have to go to understand temperament.
Oh my goodness. I love this. I, I need to learn more about it so that I can help my clients work through this. But for someone listening, okay, I'm sure everyone has identified yourself and I'm sure they've also identified their partner, their ex, their parent, you know, who—
Their kids, hopefully.
Yes. Oh my gosh. Definitely the kids. Um, and so With a little bit of time we have left, what, what do we do with that in relationship when your R bumps up against his O, right? Yes. How do we— obviously just this conversation, I think, can garner some empathy and an understanding that now we don't really need to take all these things personally because this is just who our partner is. But as an R dealing with an O, for me it's like, uh, yeah. And so, so what do we do?
Really good, really good question. So one, you don't have to guess. I have an assessment. Um, you can take the assessment and find out what your temperament is. I mean, the assessment isn't perfect, but it, but it is a pretty— statistically, it's, it's, it works pretty well to identify Um, what your, what your primary and secondary temperaments are. And so I would, I would invite all of you to, to take the assessment. Um, assume we can put it in the show notes or whatever.
Absolutely.
Um, but then understanding really changes how you interpret things. If, if you're— my wife is an RO, um, and, and understanding her R-ness has been transformational in our relationship. Because like I said, we tend to think that other people do things for more or less the same reasons that we do them,
right?
And that's simply not the case.
Mm-hmm.
And so understanding where, like, where she's coming from, and even like if I'm trying to get on her, her radar screen, right? Um, happens many times a day where I'm like, And, and, and it used to— I, I would get frustrated or I would just keep trying to, you know, yoohoo or whatever. But, but understanding this, I'll just say, hey, El, can, you know, can I have your attention for a second? Or can, you know, is now a good time? Or whatever. Just, just, just that. Just understanding that I need to get on her radar.
She needs to dive in.
Because she loves me. She loves me. She wants me to feel like she met— like I matter to her. She wants me to feel safe with her. She's not— she doesn't want me— she doesn't want me to feel bad. She doesn't want me to feel unimportant to her, right? And, and so learning how to interface well with the way that her brain unalterably works is really important. And then, and then likewise, understanding her, understanding how to interpret my O-ness and, and my O-C-ness. I'm, I'm much more sensitive than she is,
right?
Right. C's are much more sensitive than R's and E's are. Um, and, um, I mean, just over this weekend we had a, I had a conversation about that, and, and, and something she said hurt my feelings. And I'm like, oh, you know that I'm a sensitive little
C.
And, and it just gives— so, so here's the bottom line: healthy works.
Mm.
Unhealthy doesn't. And it doesn't matter what, what the reasons for our unhealthy are, unhealthy still doesn't work. And so there are things with every temperament that line up really well with healthy, and there are things that are really incongruent with every temperament with healthy. And just because, whatever, just because I'm an E, and, and so there are things about healthy that are challenging for me, that doesn't change what healthy is.
Great.
And so, when healthy is incongruent with the way that our brains naturally work, you can use a skill, a process, or a partnership to do healthy, to do the healthy thing that doesn't come naturally for you. And so, if you understand that, the propensities around your temperament and the strengths and challenges of that are never going to change.
Right.
They're not going anywhere,
right?
No matter how bad you want them to, no matter how bad you wish. And the same thing for your partner. The, the propensities that come with their temperament are never going to be different. And so learning to implement skills and processes and partnerships, you, you first have to learn, you have to understand before you can do anything.
Yes, I do.
And then And then you can work with rather than against. And, and when you have a safe relationship, then you can say, hey Zoe, let's, let's lean into your— our strengths here, that your skill set is really better suited for this than mine.
Mm-hmm.
And, and we can both defer to that in, in bringing about whatever this context best, you know, most requires. And, and then vice versa, you can say, you know, Denham, Your skill set here is, is naturally better at this than mine. Let's, let's, let's lean into your strength here. And, and when you both feel safe with each other and you both feel, feel valued by each other, then, then opening up space and leaning into each other's strengths doesn't feel, doesn't feel threatening.
Yeah.
It doesn't feel like I've gotta, you know, there's something wrong if I don't do this as well as you do, or if we, if we go with this, then our kids are gonna, you know, Like you better. They're gonna think that you're— you know, it opens up space to get rid of a lot of that underlying yuckiness.
Yeah, I love that, because if you can look at your partner and be aware of their temperament, be aware of their strengths, then you can look at them and say, how can I help them magnify, right? How can I help them use? How can I honor that in this moment? Instead of thinking, why can't they be different? Why can't, you know, they— Yes. Why are they like this? And I, and I also think the thing that you mentioned, and I just want to, I have to highlight it, because you said that we think other people's brains work the same as ours. And when that, and that is so very true. And when we are operating with that, that fallacy, really, Then we also attribute other people's behavior to something that it would be if we did. And it's usually completely wrong. Totally.
So true.
And usually it's not in a nice light. It's usually in a very negative light. Like, if I were to do that, that would mean this. Yes. But it doesn't necessarily mean that for someone who has an R versus a C or an O.
Right.
Um, and if we can kind of allow our brains to sit there and recognize that, That, you know, the O was looking for, you know, just really sitting in the present. The O doesn't have that capacity to really think and plan and stay in that future. It just feels so uncomfortable. The O is really struggling with being able to hold your emotions, right?
Yes.
And it's not personal. It's not because they're being cold. It's not because they're uncaring. It really is about their, their capacity. So one last thing. I want to ask, and I suggest people get your book and contact you, take the quiz. I heard, and this might be my, my optimism, but I heard some wiggle room for growth and change within our temperaments when we focus on health. What do you hear?
No, no.
I love it.
And that's so, so And, and I, and I think so many of us— and tying it back into your work on, on complex shame—
yeah,
so many of us have, have a lot of shame around our temperaments.
Yes.
And around who we are and, and how we are. And we, we have very profound, largely subconscious beliefs that in order to be lovable, or in order to be successful, or in order to be okay We have to be different than we are.
Yes.
And, and that creates such a conundrum when you feel like these unalterable parts of you are irreparably flawed and have to be different in order for your life and your relationships to work. And you can change your behavior. Right? You can learn how to do habits. You can learn how to— you can learn how to communicate well. You can learn how to resolve conflict effectively. You can learn how— all of that. You can learn behavior.
Right.
And you can— you can change your interpretations of things too. I mean, you can learn how to— how to assign different meanings to things. And you— you can— you can rewire your attachment style. Not easy to do, but— but you can rewire your attachment style. You cannot alter your temperament. And, and the good news is that that's just fine because it's not broken.
It's not necessary. Yes.
You don't— you, you, you uniquely bring such important things to humanity that nobody else is as equipped to bring as you are. And, and when you learn to value that And you work through the shame and the different things that are in the way of you being able to really show up in healthy ways as yourself, you're— you— it's like, I don't know, it's like turning around. You're swimming upstream and you turn around, all of a sudden you're going with the current, right?
You're— yeah,
um, it, it just— life works.
Freedom. That's freedom.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, and so You, you don't have to change your temperament in order to be successful and to make changes.
Hmm. I,
I— Was that clear enough without being too mean?
Oh, I love it. I love it because you are, you are bumping up against that part of me. I don't know what part of my temperament that is that's always looking for the fix or the, you know, the change. And I love that, because that's not even a reframe. That is the reality. And I want to listen to this episode again and again and again. And I know that there's so many people that need to hear that, both when it comes to them and their own lives and their own view of themselves, and their view of people they're in relationship with. This is so Very powerful. Thank you so much for coming on. Um, how can people find you?
Um, so we will— so you, you can go to whatsmycore.com, um, to take the assessment. You can also go to drdenhamslade.com. Um, got tons of resources to help you learn how to, how to be a healthy you. And, and relationally, there are very predictable pros and cons that come with each pairing. Um, CO has very predictable pros and cons, um, different than a CR or a CE dynamic. Um, and, and OR and OE are different than an OC. And, and so they're, they're relationally parenting— is parenting a C child well is so different than parenting an E child well.
Yes.
Um, and, and so We've got tons of resources to help you. The book is a great place to start, um, but there— I have a Core Advantage program that has all kinds of things that take you through the change process based on, on your temperament. Um, and then, and so you go through based on your own temperament, really learning how to be a healthy you. And then the next level of the program is, is going through the temperament of your partner. Um, and, and really learning how to interface well with that. Um, and then the, then the top tier of the program is, is Core for the World and really learning to master, um, the, the, the 4 temperaments in general. So
brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Good. I will, we will make sure to link all of those or as much of those as we can in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming.
Thank you. It's, it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you having me on, and it's, it's a pleasure to talk to you.
Yeah, thanks. It was, it was a wealth, wealth of information.
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