36: Overcoming Family Trauma w/ Mark Wolynn

Foreign.

Interview is Mr. Mark Wolin. He is a total legend. He wrote a book called It Didn't Start with you. He won a bunch of awards for it. It's really interesting how we can inherit family trauma and how it passed. It passes through generations. And all of a sudden, we, at certain points in our life, be it in our 20s, 30s, whatever it is, if there was an event that happened to an ancestor, somebody in our life, how it can kind of mirror within our fields, within our bodies, within our trauma gates, exactly what happened to them. And it's so fascinating to get into this research. This book has radically transformed my life. I'm going all in and Even further with Mr. Mark Wolin. I'm taking his online course, and I'm actually going to be working with him for the future because y' all know I've done all types of work for healing trauma in my own life, and I believe this is one of the biggest things we can do. So Mark is a really friendly, gregarious, intuitive, intellectual. I found out about him from my Sedona tribe here in Sedona by some legendary people. Mark has been on their show, and they've also done his work. They've gone through it, this ancestral trauma stuff, and it's changed their life. So that's how I found out about Mark, and I wanted to bring him on the show for you onto the Drew and you show so that you could get a taste of this brilliant brain, this mind, and hopefully heal some aspects of your life to really look at it in a different way. And maybe this helps somebody out there. If it does, let me know. Much love. We're in this together.

How are you?

Good, good. Nice to meet you. Did you read my book?

Yes.

Oh, good.

Yeah, I'm about. I'm actually about 60% through with it.

Okay.

But I'm also really good friends with Bridget Nielsen and Mark. Mark Groves as well. So they've been through your work and Blair's been through your work as well.

Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, my. You know, all my friends over there.

And I want to. Yeah, I definitely want to go through it with you, but I know in 2016, you actually won a award in psychology, right? The Silver Nautilus Award.

I did. I did. It was the best book in psychology.

Which was quite something.

Yeah, yeah. And you've changed hundreds of thousands of people's lives through this work, I would guess, of, you know, going back into the ancestral trauma that we have. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, you know, it's. People don't realize, but the events of our parents and grandparents. Let's say our parents or our grandmother, grandfather, they lost their father or their mother when they were young. Or maybe our mom or our dad, they were sent away, placed in an orphanage, sent to grandma's for a summer, you know, disconnected from our mom or one of their siblings. Maybe they died tragically. The child got in under the kitchen sink and Drake drank the Drano and died. And everybody feels guilty. An event like this, it breaks the heart of the family. And the reaction to the trauma doesn't necessarily stop, as we're learning, with the people who experience the trauma, the feelings, the sensations, specifically the stress response, the way our genes express this passes forward to the children and the grandchildren, affecting them in a similar way, even though they didn't personally experience the trauma themselves.

Yeah. One of the things you were talking about in your book was the certain timelines. So if your grandpa had a certain tragic event when he was, like, 28 years old, then that could almost surface as a time from the field of creation in your own life based on what Grandpa was going through.

Yeah. There can be a triggering event similar to what Grandpa went through, which will bring our reactivity forward. Or it can even be the same age. For example, Grandpa goes to war, and he loses, you know, his war family, all his buddies in the foxhole, and he survives, but he, you know, leaves half of himself there at the same age that we. Same age that Grandpa was.

That can be a triggering event that all of a sudden we are carrying his anxiety, his tremors, his shaking, his terror. And it can also be when we lose a friend or, you know, something similar. We're not quite mirroring the foxhole, but something similar that triggers this loss can bring us into behaviors similar to what he experienced.

Wow, that's so fascinating. And not a lot of people know about this. Like, this isn't common information. Yeah.

The good thing is it is now.

Yeah, we're making it. Yeah, you're making it. So I love what you're doing in the work that you're creating. I personally, I can relate to this. I was tortured as a kid from 0 to 5, and I spent some time meditating this morning before we did our podcast. And I'm like, I wonder what my dad went through, My biological dad. And I thought about how his dad was, and maybe he was an alcoholic or on drugs, like into my dad, and he wasn't taught anything better. And then I thought about maybe meeting him in person, how I would react. And I was sitting at the table in my mind, with him, because he had three life sentences to prison. And I actually wrote the prison a letter and I said, hey, can you free this man? What happened when I was five year old. Five years old is so far away. He doesn't deserve to live in jail his whole entire life experience. And I had like that mental, like John Carter coming to meet my dad, like from the future and looking at him. And then. And I went both ways. I went. I was angry, you know, frustrated, like, how could you do this? And I've worked through a lot of that with emotional intelligence and coursework and everything. But I don't think there's anything that addresses it like what you talk about in your book.

I love your question. What sits behind my dad that made him violent or made him hurtful? It's that saying hurt people. And when we look at. When we're able to have. You have enough stepping back inside ourselves, enough space, we can ask the big questions of why was my mom.

Disconnected? Why did my dad drink? Why was my father violent? Why was my mom shut down? And then we can see what happened to them as kids or in their family again. It's a trauma that blocks the flow of love. So it's clear to me, teaching this work and doing this work, that when people tell me how painful their parents have been, it's clear to me that traumas stand. This is what. Why I love. You're asking that question about your dad. That's exactly right. That's the way we begin to peel back the layers. A trauma broke that family, broke him, shut him down. And he copied maybe the behavior that he saw in his family or he was disconnected from his mom and the sanctity of life. You see, our mother, our early relationship with our mother is essential for how we deal with other people. Mom is the template, in a way, for how the world treats us. You can almost say. You can almost make the simile that mom and life are a metaphor for each other. Those of us who say life is hard often had a mom who was hard or life is challenging. You know, we had a mom who was challenging. So, yeah, I love your question. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I've sat with that most of my life, really analyzing even what. Even projecting myself in the future because I don't have kids yet, and then holding my beautiful son or my daughter and thinking about, how could the human that brought me into this life experience torture such an innocent being as I'm holding it in my mind's eye?

Well, Drew, he sees Little you as the little hymn he had to squash. So here you are, innocent and expressive and exuberant and all the feelings a five year old has and brings forward, he sees that as the five year old inside him that he couldn't allow. So it's hard for him to allow it outside of him as well.

So really honoring having reverence for that inner child. Yeah. And yeah, that's one thing that I've been working on as of lately. Spending more time with little Drew, just playing every day, setting an alert in my phone to, you know, play some music or paint or do something that encourages that little boy to come out in me as well.

Yeah, your dad couldn't allow that little boy in himself. So he sees it in you and tries to shut it down.

Yeah. A question we had, Mark, and you'll be able to answer this was Even though they're not in your family, can you emotionally, psychically pick up generational trauma from being around certain people that have had massive amounts of it, almost like absorbing it through the energetic field?

I don't understand the question. So who would we pick up the trauma from?

Yeah. So let's say you have three best girlfriends, Right. And one of your best girlfriends has had massive amounts of abuse trauma from her past and her relatives had that as well. Can you pick it up psychically or energetically? This was a question from some of the Instagram people this morning.

Well, there are many of us who are impacted by other people's fields, other people's pain. We're empaths in a way. And I look at that in a different way. I would say that if our going back to our mom again or our dad, if our parents had difficult lives, they were sad, they were depressed, they were unhappy and we attended to their feelings. We felt that if I can make mom feel okay, she'll make me feel okay. We're open to this idea of taking on the pain of others because as a little child we took on our parents pain almost for two reasons. In a way, almost. If I can make them feel better, they'll make me feel better. And also that they don't suffer alone. I'll suffer too. So this is two sides of the same coin.

Yeah, I feel that I had my. My little one was chewing a bone underneath me and it was really loud. I don't know if you picked up that audio, but I have a little mini golden doodle. Yeah. Where are you based by the way? California.

Well, born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and later in life I moved to California Very nice.

Yeah. I was Michigan born and raised, and then San Diego I lived in for 11 years, and now I'm spending some time in Sedona, Arizona. The crew. That's how I know Bridget and.

Big fans of your work. Yeah, so I believe. And I think I read this in your book, too. The mother wound is actually the first wound that we receive. How do we know which one to address first, the dad or the mom?

Say it this way. Our mom is our first relationship. Even before our father is felt, he felt viscerally, of course, inside us. But our earliest relationship in utero and often with caregiving and nursing, is with our mom. It's the first. It's also biologically what prepares us to deal with our environment as mother and childer. You know, like two tuning forks in a way. So when we have a break with our break in the attachment with our mom, it's a challenge to feel safe and secure in life. When that connection's cut off, we have difficulty trusting the feeling of who we are inside. Because a child's inner experience of himself or herself is dependent on mom's attunement, both in utero and then when we're delivered. So, you know, hence, I always see our relationship with our mother as the foundation for building safety and security. It's also the foundation for trusting life, trusting experiences, trusting people, trusting our relationship, trusting a partner, trusting the care we receive, trusting our therapist, trusting our doctor, our body. It goes on and on. So when we have a break in the attachment with our mom, it. It's felt like a break with our own core. You know, Drew, let me give you an example. Infant is attuning to mom's energy for, of course, its development, its survival, safety, security. The mother who's bonding and mirroring with that child is also helping the child build an inner core. For example, she looks into the eyes of the baby, and she says, there you are. Oh, you're so precious. You're smiling. Look at you. And the baby inside is expanding with this felt sense experience. Drew of me, looked at me, loved. And it's. This is where we begin to develop our core. And when we're cut off from our mom's presence, either physically or emotionally, we're cut off from our core, our gut feelings.

That's heavy. Yeah, I can relate to that. I was abandoned by my mom, and mom and dad, you know, there was a time when they left me out on a porch for, like, two weeks straight, and they would slide the food out underneath the doggie door.

Boy.

Yeah. So feeling cut off from mom was a very real thing growing up. And that also makes me think, you know, what was her relationship like with her mom? Because I was adopted and I don't have family history, like there's no way I can dig into it. That was one of the questions I have. How can we do this work if we don't know our family history?

Yeah, it's a really good question. Many people were either adopted or our parents don't want to talk about the past or, you know, they think that they're protecting, you know, they're protecting the child if they don't talk about, you know, the things that they went through. But as you learned in the book, this information that lives in our trauma language. So let me just tell the listener for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I do in this book is I teach you how to be a detective of your own experience, your own trauma language to help you. Even if your parents, even if you didn't know your parents, you're adopted, your parents don't talk, they're deceased. This information lives in your trauma language. It's in your fears, it's in your symptoms, the ones you can't explain. It's in your self destructive behaviors, your self sabotaging behaviors. It lives in the symptoms of an illness. These symptoms, as I was saying earlier, that appear at a certain age or appear after an unsettling event that's similar to a trauma in your family history, even if you don't know about it. This trauma language, it's also in your relationship struggles. You know, who you choose, the type of partner you choose, how you let yourself be treated, how you treat others. It's also in the ways we deal with money, success. All of this forms a breadcrumb trail. So this gives us a glimpse, more than a glimpse of what happened, even if the story's been lost or kept secret or were adopted and finally can give us a context to explain why we feel the way we feel.

Mmm, that's beautiful. I think about some of my core language and some of the struggles that I've had. You know, being tortured as a kid and then adopted from a.

A middle, like I would say lower middle class family. Heart. Billionaires though, like wide open heart. My mom's a saint, my adopted mom and my dad is, you know, growing up he was a truck driver, mom was a janitor. But there was a lot of financial stuff that was passed down. They didn't show a lot of love. Like as a five year old, I didn't Witness them being in love. And that's always kind of put a. An adverse reaction in the eyes of what we would call marriage. In my own mind, like this doesn't look fun like marriage. And it's actually come up in relationship currently and in the past of hey, I have resistance towards committed lifelong partnership. And I wonder if it's from my trauma from the past, if there's things that are still need to be healed. You know, ancestral speaking.

And then going into that, if you're asking, I don't know your history, but I think you were saying after the age of five, you were adopted out.

Yeah. Okay, Adopted at five.

I would look more at those traumas with your birth family, particularly with your birth mom. And the reason I'm saying that again, the relationship with our mom is the blueprint for our relationship with a partner. Whether we're male or female. Our relationship with our mom, again is that first relationship. So visualize. Here we are in utero with a mom and her thoughts of her depressed thoughts, her stressed thoughts. She doesn't like our dad, she feels trapped. Our dad's cheating or drinking, they're both shut down. She didn't get enough from her mother. Her thoughts are creating stress, is creating cortisol, the stress hormone. The baby's feeling that as caustic. Already there becomes a disconnection from our first relationship, mom and us. Because she's depressed, she's shut down, she's unhappy, she's trapped, whatever the story is. So now the baby even develops, as we know from biology, a cortisol busting enzyme to deal with this assault of cortisol. So this inner environment and relationship, if she's unhappy, if she's not able to attune to you in utero, this is the beginning basis for relationship out there. Then your early relationship, which I was hearing, isn't great with her because she can't treat you gently or with with love and care. That early relationship as well adds to that template. That's the relationship. Not what you witnessed so much with adoptive mom or dad, but what you experience personally but don't remember because it's a somatic memory. Remember, Drew, we don't have memories till about age 2 or 3. Cognitive memories. Yeah, but we certainly have somatic memories. Because the neural tube, the neural groove, that what will become our nervous system is developed after 20 days in utero. And our heart is developed after 20 days in utero. So we're feeling somatically the broken relationship, even if we don't remember it. So if you were asking the question. The healing there with your birth mom and the break from her. First emotionally, then physically, then at 5, physically, these are the places that require the most attention.

I just feel like there's so much to it, Mark. Like, it's almost daunting. Like, I feel my chest getting tight. Talking about this with you like this scares me because, number one, I had to be the parent of my parents. Even when I was 4 or 5, they were on drugs. They were so disconnected, they were checked out. I mean, I was constantly witnessing like group orgies in the house as a young kid. I was cut. I had 22 stitches in my chest as like a 4 year old because one of his buddies threw me over his shoulder. He had a knife in his pocket. And mom was never there to watch over me. And when it came time for her to get her abuse because my dad was abusing her as well. When he'd do heroin and these other things, little Drew stepped in front. Little Drew was like the little general. Hey, don't touch my mom.

Exactly. I love what you're saying. I love what you're saying. Because even as infants, even in utero, we can have practice leaving our core and organizing around our mom's feeling states to make sure again. It's a strategy that we all adopt. If I can. If I. The baby even is responsible for helping at times to help the mom down, regulate her limbic system, her nervous system. The baby organizes around mom's feeling states as a way to say, if I can cool and calm and make mom feel okay, then of course she can make me feel okay. So many of us have that experience of being our mom's champion, our mom's defender. Leaving ourselves. Here's the deep sentence. Leaving ourselves, abandoning ourselves to attend to the other. And as we do that, self abandonment. That's what we have to heal that. We have to heal that. Constantly leaving ourselves out in the desert while we make sure other people are okay.

That.

That hit me. I got tears coming out of my eyes right now. And I really feel that. I feel like that's what I. That's what I historically do too, Mark. It's like I enter these relationships and even business partnerships and other things where it's like I go to the ends of the earth for the other and I leave myself. I think there's a lot of healers that do that, that are listening to this, that are like, hey, you just nailed it.

Well, a lot of us healers, as you know from my book. Me too. A lot of Us healers have early events that break the attachment with our mothers. And then the strategy of course is, well, I can't receive from her because she's depressed or she's on drugs or she's being hurt by dad. So I have to give to her. So no longer do we trust receiving from her. Now we've set up this pattern of taking care of the other, the mother, which later in life sets up a pattern of overextension, wait, exhaustion, chronic fatigue syndrome. Because we're holding it together for everybody, yet there's no one home in the barn.

I noticed because I track everything. I track my heart rate variability. I've been doing Peter Levine's work for a while too. So shaking and in the autonomic vagus nerve, like all that toning, chanting. I mean, I've thrown everything at this trauma Right outside of your work, which I'm really excited to get heavily into. So if you're listening to this, definitely buy the book, you guys. And then also you have coaching or other things you do online too.

I have a training that's awesome. I just completed. Many of your friends were in it. I just completed a training and it was really good. So I put it online as a streamable package for people.

Yeah. And there's like a three month wait list, you guys. So if you're thinking about doing this.

Not for the training, the training, they.

Can, okay, good, do right away.

But the wait list is to work with me. Unfortunately, I'm backed up a bit. But the people I've trained, they can work right away and. Or they can go on my way.

Which is so good. So if you're a healer practitioner, definitely check that out too. I'm going to put the website in the show notes so you can go over there and check that out.

Thank you.

We talked about trauma language.

What do you think?

One, one thing is that people kind of misinterpret when it comes to their own ancestral trauma healing.

I don't know what they misinterpret. Everybody misinterprets everything. So basically what I do when I work with people is I get their trauma language. So for example, somebody will come to me with two types of language that I listen for. They'll have either generational language and that would be I'll hurt a child, I'll do something terrible, I'll be locked up, I won't deserve to live. That comes from generational events. And other people carry a different type of trauma language which is more abandonment, attachment language. I'll be all Alone, I'll be left, I'll be rejected. I won't exist, I won't matter. And so that way, when I listen to people's trauma language, I can help steer where the event is that we need to heal, that we need to work through. And healing involves working with changing our brain. And I'm glad to get into that if we need to.

Yeah, no, I love the changing the brain and the neurochemistry. For instance, I have a sister who's biological. We were born. She's one year younger than I am. She took the whole trauma from what happened to us from zero to she was four, I was five. Completely different than I did, right. I went. I had to prove. I had to show. I had to show the world how worthy I am of all the achievement. So I went, total achiever, you know, beat courage, like everything else, like effort. I'm going to do this, like, warrior mentality. And she kind of went the other way where it was like, hey, I'm gonna back away and I'm just gonna put the shell on. I'm gonna build as many walls as possible with people. What is it that, in your experience, what is it that allows those two pendulums? Because she's female in orientation. Is there anything different with, like, the genders?

I would say no. It's our defenses. So what we, when we have trauma, we can defend by shutting down, or we can defend with bravado. Armoring and going out, improving or doing to, you know, the same wound of not having enough from our mom can make one person shut down, withdrawal, depressed, hide armor. And the other person, as you're saying, from the same wound, do rather than be. I can't receive, but I can go out and make things happen with. With my will. There are just two sides of the coin. But nonetheless, as you're doing and you know, everything you told me you're doing is awesome. The shaking, the holding that child, the being able to find those places in the body that are uncomfortable because deep to what's uncomfortable. I want to say this for the listener, you know, to put it in a nutshell. When I work with people, we need to practice being with the first, the uncomfortable sensations in our body. You know, the tightening, the numbing, the constantly doing the giving until we can go beneath that. Wait a minute. I just found myself going out from my neck and my eyes and my chest to give to the other person. Let me follow that movement. Oh, yeah, that begins. Because I feel a tightening in my heart and I feel ha. I feel numb in my solar plexus. Let me stay with that tightening in my heart and that numbing in my solar plexus. And then we do that. We start to go beneath the defense, and we experience sensations that are life giving. Drew. Oh, there's pulsing. Huh? Tingling.

Wow.

When I really follow this, there's a dissolving, a softening. I can feel my chest wall expanding. Oh, blood flowing.

Oh, wow.

I'm feeling a pulsing down my solar plexus.

Gosh.

I can even feel that pulsing down in my womb, or warmth rising. In other words, we're holding what's life giving rather than what's deadening. Like the defense. The defense is deadening. The shutdown, the armoring. What's life giving is the sensation in the body. I teach people how to locate, then how to hold those sensations, be with them for at least a full minute, and do that six times a day. The neuroscientists teach us that if you can stay with these positive sensations inside the body for at least six times a day, for at least a minute each, that can be enough to calm our stress response. That can be enough to change our brain.

That's beautiful. I can relate to that. And I used to do TCM or like, meditation, where I'd leave my body. And as a young kid, even when I was seven, I did prana healing on the earth. Like, I would visualize myself being in earth, like, sending white light to the earth, all these things. And it was comfortable for me to be out of my body. So my whole life, I've literally lived out of my body. And when I started to do tre and implementing some of your work from the book, it's like these feelings I've never even had. And like you said, it's life giving, but it's so unpackable. So to do that six times a day.

But I love what you. I love what you're saying and I love what you're doing. I'm here. I am now.

I'm in the body.

I've been out of the body forever.

Yeah.

And here I am back in the body and, ooh, wow. I don't want to feel this tightening. And when I get into the emotion of this tightening, maybe there's this great loneliness inside there. We all carry this. We all carry this. We're all struggling with this feeling of deep loneliness that if we ever let ourselves dive into it, we think we're going to die or not exist. But the truth is that if we go deep to that, it too dissolves and becomes Just consciousness, which is particles of move. Swirling part. I'm making this up. But swirling particles. Warmth moving. Oh, I'm feeling a figure eight in my body. I'm just going to weave with that. What is this sensation? Oh, wow. This is just like. In other words, it begins to. The defense dissolves, the terror dissolves. And what replaces it is what was once uncomfortable. We're now learning to be comfortable with. First what was uncomfortable and now we get a curiosity as you have an interest of. Huh. Let me just follow that. Okay. I can see what it's doing. At first. It's. It wants to shut down. My muscles in my sternum are going. They're pulling toward my chest. It wants to close my heart. But let me just keep breathing and sending my exhale here and see what happens. Oh, that calmed me. Oh, I can feel warmth spreading. There's a movement now. This is shaking. I'm going to go with that because you were saying tre.

Yeah.

So now. Okay. Oh, boy, oh, boy. Here's a trembling in my body. I'm going to let my lip go. I'm just going to let myself tremble and pretend I'm holding or really visualize holding that little me that wanted to tremble but couldn't. So here I am. I'm going to put my hand here with my hand here and my hand below. And I'm holding the trembling little me.

As. While he trusts me. And that's the key. I'm saying words to him like, mark, you can trust me. I've got you. So some of the sentences I teach people when I work with them are Drew, as Drew would say to Inter. Drew, I've got you, Drew up. And I'll breathe with you until you feel safe.

Until we can come back into our body, until we feel pulsing throughout our core or tingling or warmth or movement or swirl, whatever. First, I would get your sensation, what it is you're feeling. We would build that into your. What you would start with this trauma language. And what you would end with is healing language.

Wow.

So trading the wounded child for the divine child, like the divine child grabs the hand and pulls that wounded child out and reminds them that they're okay. That even in the storm of the chaos of whatever is triggering you from ancient remembering or whatever is now okay to deal with, because we're completely safe. Like, we've never been more safe as a society. But yet people with trauma like me.

And you. Yeah, yeah. 2020 started. And with the whole pandemic and everything that's going on, I went a Little crazy, right? Like, I'm ordering guns. Like, I'm not a gun guy, but I'm like, we need to get food. I bought food for two years. So there's like this. This wounded child in me that was like, hey, you got to protect everyone.

That's how. That's how the pandemic has been serving us. In a way, yes, the pandemic's been terrible and horrible, but what it has done, on the positive, is it's brought up our feelings of loneliness, fear, scarcity, isolation. And what that's done, the triggering event that I talked about earlier, that's bringing us close to our early trauma, where we were tortured or traumatized or terrorized or lonely or alone or left or abandoned. So the pandemic, in a way, is servicing, serving us by bringing up what's uncomfortable so we can heal it, we can see it. The pandemic is letting us take a flashlight and shine a light on what's uncomfortable.

Yes.

And I'm reading a book called the.

One Percenters versus the One.

And it's powerful because if you think about the 1% that's ruling the world, like the social elite or whatever, how wounded are they that they need more and more, more from the resources of Mother Earth that take more mentality, the penetrating mentality. Like, if they were. If they did your work, I'm convinced we could completely change the whole entire planet, which is awesome.

In my work, no one's excluded, so that's the number one thing. Everything and everyone has to be included. Even our parents that hurt us, we have to work through that trauma. Even our grandfather who cheated on Grandma, left her with eight kids. He has to be included. Or someone later will cheat and leave, or someone later will suffer, like Grandma. You see, it's just one side of the pendulum someone will carry until everybody and everything is included.

That's beautiful. I know. Mark, I'm going to have so many questions after this first podcast, and what I'd like to do is open a loop with you so maybe in six months we have you back on with the questions from the audience. And I'm going to go through your course online as well. I'm committed to that. I think it's going to change my life, and I've really enjoyed our time today.

Me, too.

Is there anything else you want to leave with the audience currently?

Oh, boy. I could talk to you for a hundred years.

I know. I feel that, and I would have.

A lot to say. But look, let's start with us. If we're Struggling with unexplained symptoms. Okay, maybe there's depression, there's anxiety, there's ocd, phobia, fear, destructive behaviors. Whatever's happening, if we are one of our children, we've got to shake the family tree, we really do, and see what falls out. What family secrets have been hidden, what stories didn't get told, what traumas never healed all the way. And then we need to work through these things. Talk about them with our kids. Don't seal our lips and stay silent. That doesn't heal it. Talk about it. Get curious. Curiosity is a feeling state that engages the prefrontal cortex. Try to work through this stuff so it's not passed down to our kids.

And thirdly, I guess what I'd say is have positive experiences. The more we can be with positive experiences, be with the sensations that I was describing earlier, the feelings, the sensations of our positive experiences, and really let that enter us and drench us in a way, we begin to change our brain.

Yeah.

That's so beautiful. Yeah. And right now.

This couldn't come at a better time, you guys. There's so much inner work we can do as a society. And I highly encourage everybody to get the book. It didn't start with you. Mark's book is amazing. All my friends that are cutting edge, you know Mark Groves, what was it? I think he interviewed you like three years ago or it was a while ago. I listened to that interview. And Bridget, of course, it's just super powerful. So if you're finding some of these symptoms like Mark mentioned, the ocd, the anxiety, the fear of the future, the protector mentality, maybe some unworthiness or you're experiencing all of it, that's okay, too. There's no judgment.

But check the book out.

You can get that on Amazon and also on Mark's website as well. What's your URL, Mark?

MarkWoolen.com W-O-L Y N N dot com.

Yeah, MarkWolin dot com. You can get that there. And are you on social as well?

Instagram?

Oh, yeah.

Everything all over. Yeah.

And we love what you're doing.

Thank you.

Thanks for showing up today. Thanks for showing up on the planet during this time.

Thank you, Drew. Thanks for having me. It was a fun talk.

Yes.