199. Brainy Tips for Ethical Influence with Brian Ahearn

Welcome to episode 199 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm very excited to welcome my friend Brian Ahern back to the show. Ready? Let's get started.

You are listening to the Brainy Business podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your your host, Melina Palmer.

Hello. Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business podcast today. I am so happy to have my friend and a great friend of the Brainy business, Brian Ahern, back on the show. If you don't yet know Brian, or if you do, you're in for a treat. He's a wealth of information and the Chief Influence Officer at Influence People. It's been almost 100 weeks since Brian was on the show, which is kind of crazy to think about. He was here in episode 104 talking about how to ethically influence people and his first book and now he's here talking about his third book which came out a couple months ago. And as I said, this is episode 199. Amazing to think of all the fantastic people and topics we've covered together over these nearly four years and 200 brainy episodes. Brian is going to share a little of his background when we start the conversation, but here are a few key items to set the stage. He is a TEDx presenter who has more than 30 years of experience in the insurance industry. He is one of only 20 individuals in the world who currently holds the Cialdini Method Certified Trainer designation. And his first book, which I already mentioned, called Influence People Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that Are Lasting and Ethical, was named one of the top 100 influence books of all time by Book Authority. Pretty amazing. And congratulations Brian. One last note before we get to the interview. I want to be sure you know that there are lots of links to make it easy for you to learn more about everything we talk about on the show, Connect with Brian and get his books all within the show notes for the episode which are waiting for you within the app you're listening to or@the brainybusiness.com 199 now let's jump right in. Brian Ahern, welcome back to the Brainy Business Podcast.

I'm excited to be with you. Melina.

Yes, I'm so, so excited to chat with you as always. We have of course had one conversation on the podcast. Feels like so many and still Never enough conversations outside of the podcast. But for everyone who it's their first introduction to you. Can you tell a little bit about your background, who you are and what you do in this world of behavioral sciences? Sure.

So I spent the entirety of my corporate career in the insurance industry and during that time came across the work of Dr. Robert Cialdini and was fascinated by it. I was involved with sales training and I could see that it was the underpinning of all selling. Started utilizing that it was almost 20 years ago and through a series of circumstances came to meet Dr. Cialdini and ultimately got certified in his methodology. So I'm one of a dozen people in the world who's got his stamp of approval to teach his methodology when it comes to ethical influence. And about three and a half years ago, I left my corporate role to do this full time now through my company called Influence People.

Yes. And in the first interview that you did on the show, we talked about your book of the same name. So Influence People, which was your first book.

Correct.

And so now we're on and talking about number three in the books.

Yeah. When I was a kid, I hated reading and writing, and that's what I do primarily now is read and write. So life changes.

Brian, can you also just tell a little bit about your background? Like you said, it's an ethical influence and persuasion. But you know, what, what does that really mean? Whether you want to share a little bit about post its or anything similar to that, you know, what does that mean to you and why do you think that's important for people?

My focus when we talk about influence is about behavior change. And when I use the term persuasion, I like Aristotle's definition where he said it was the art of getting someone to do something that they wouldn't ordinarily do if you didn't ask. And I think that's a great definition because so often we are trying to get people to do things for us throughout the course of our lifetime. If we can change how they think or feel about something, I think that's wonderful. It can help bring on a more lasting impact. But sometimes changing how people think or feel about something isn't enough. And I saw that in the insurance industry. Melina, I could tell you and your listeners about all these statistics about texting and driving, and I'm sure I would change how people think about it because they have new information in their brains. But if they get in their car and they text and drive, I've not really accomplished anything. So I became very focused on what do we need to do to change people's behavior? And I think that doing it through influence and doing it ethically is the right way to do it, where we can feel good about ourselves knowing that we're helping other people. So that's my focus.

And like you said, it's so often when we think about problems and in businesses there's this idea of we just need to tell them more. They just don't understand why this is important. And I see companies get hung up on getting people to care about the same things that they care about and are passionate about inside of the organization. Whether it's like you said, not texting and driving, or if it's throwing away trash or protecting endangered species, you know, you have the way that you think about this, but if you can separate from why you care about it into getting them to actually take the action, you know, do you care more about them doing the thing or them knowing about the thing?

Right. And I think that's where it's not about what we think and how we feel, it's about what they think and how they feel. And so if we understand what research says about how people typically think, feel and behave, and we're willing to change how we are going to communicate based on what the research says, I think we can get to that, yes, far more often than most corporations or individuals are doing right now.

And I know that there's a piece of this within this newest book. I'm sure it's in the others as well. But can you share a little bit about the power of. Because sure.

I was talking to an organization about that just the other day. It's interesting that when we so often what people do is they tell somebody what they should do. And that doesn't gain any mental ascent. It doesn't tap into what Cialdini calls the principle of commitment and consistency, which rephrasing from a statement into a question can simply do that and up your odds. But you can go even further by tagging whatever you're asking somebody and using the word because. And the research around that is Ellen Langer, who was a professor at Harvard, set up a study in a photocopy shop. And they wait till the line got long at a photocopier. And someone would go to the front and simply say, excuse me, I have five copies to make. May I go ahead of you? So just a straight up request. And 60% of the time people said sure. At a later time, the person would go up and they would say, excuse me, I have five Copies to make. May I go ahead of you? Because I'm in a rush now at that point, almost everybody, 94% said, sure, go ahead. Now thinking it was just because they were in a rush, they tried it one more time. And the final variation was, excuse me, I have five copies to make. May I go ahead of you? Because I need to make these copies, which is a bogus reason. Right. Everybody's in line copies. But 93% said yes. And the social psychologists theorized that it's conditioning that from the time we're little, most of us, if our parents ever told us to do something and we asked why, they said, because I said so. And we knew at that point, you know, you hit the point as a kid, you better go do what you were told. And so we've been conditioned that we almost don't analyze what comes after the word because it's just a trigger for us that we should take action. So my thing when I talk with clients is don't give a bogus reason, Give a valid reason. Don't tell, ask, say because, give that valid reason. And that simple restructure is going to get you what you need. Get them to take action, say yes, whatever it is, far more often than just spewing information at them.

Right. But of course, then there's a balance of, not like you said, spewing information at them. And so there is some thoughtfulness that would go into the because so that there's something behind it. But we also don't want to just talk for the sake of talking. You know, we have our because and then we stop.

Absolutely. And if you can tie in a little bit of scarcity to the because, here's the downside. And so I work a lot with insurance agents and insurance companies. Insurance is a really important product. Especially when you have a loss, you want to make sure you have the right coverages and the right amounts. When that insurance agent is maybe talking to the buying public, they shouldn't say, melina, I need your loss runs. It could be, melina, could you get me your loss runs by Friday? Because without them, I can't finish the quote. And I know you're anxious to get that number, right, so you're not going to get something. I've just tagged it. But that's very conversational. It's not threatening. I'm not fear mongering. I'm honestly telling you, without that, I can't do what I need to to ultimately satisfy you. That simple statement is so different than how most people would communicate and, and I would say that insurance agents or leaders, whoever uses that type of approach, they're going to have people saying yes and doing what needs to be done so they can enjoy success.

Yeah. So, Brian, I am curious. I know that the principle of liking, I would say, is one that you use better than anybody. And you also are very. Yes, you're very likable. I like you very much. Yes, for sure. But even in that, like the reciprocity, you definitely live all of Cialdini's principles, for sure. And for everyone who is of interest, kind of what we're talking about, I've been honored to also have Dr. Cialdini on the show. I'll be linking to that in the show notes as well. With the liking principle, is that something that you were already doing kind of naturally, and then when you found Cialdini's work, you were able to kind of put a name to it and formalize it more? Or would you say that that's something that really came about and you became more aware of once you found that and started doing that training?

It was something that I learned and learned the importance of through Cialdini when I was growing up. I'm a pretty quiet and somewhat serious person, and my wife used to get angry at me. In fact, she even bought me for my birthday one year smiling lessons because she said I don't smile enough. And so I wasn't that naturally kind of gregarious or outgoing person. But as I began to learn about the principle of liking, I learned ways that were comfortable for me to engage people by simply thoughtfully looking for what we had in common and just making a point to talk about it, that's not that difficult. By choosing to look for the good in people. And when I see something that's positive and I offer the compliment, that was very easy for me to do that. But I had to start forwardly thinking about those things. Then the next big step for me was that deep understanding of it's not about me getting you, Melina, to like me, it's about me utilizing those same approaches to come to know and like you. And that was the real aha for me because all of a sudden I just really found myself enjoying so much. The podcasters I'm meeting, the people I meet when I go to conferences, the people I was working with, everything became a lot more enjoy because I was choosing to do what I could to like them. So that's the. And for me, I think that is the foundation for everything else because the more I know about you, the better my reciprocity will be. My, my giving is more customized to you. The more I know you and like you, the less chance there ever is for anything that would be close to manipulation because I would never manipulate my friends. And so it just begins to inform all of the other principles.

Yeah, I think that was a really key piece in reading the newest book where the, you know, the lesson there for, you're the hero of the story. Right. And we'll talk about how this book is a little bit different from the others that we typically talk about here on the show in a minute. But the, you know, that lesson being, you know, how do you get people to like you? And it's really not, it's not about you in that way. But if instead you can kind of turn that around to be, how can you genuinely find a way to like them? And then people are more likely to like people who like them. And you have the analogy, the people who are thirsty in that, in that case, can you share a little bit about that?

Sure. A lot of times we don't know how thirsty we are until we take that first sip. And I had seen that in my career when it came to things like compliments. I worked for a company when I started my career that it was like, hey, you're just getting paid to do what you do. There's very few pats on the back. When I went to the insurance company that I spent most of my career with, I'll never forget when a man named Don came up to me and I was at a copier and he complimented me on this write up that I had done and had to send into the home office staff. And at that moment it just, it hit me about how much it meant to receive a compliment. And I didn't know that because I hadn't been receiving them. And a wise friend told me that, you know, people who say things like, well, I don't need a pat on the back to know that I'm doing a good job. Those are the people who need the pat on the back because they don't get it. And that's a self defense mechanism for them to justify why people aren't praising them.

Right. And so those people, if you go out of your way to genuinely give a compliment, not, you know, just some random surface thing, but something that, that truly exists that you see in whomever that is, and to say, hey, that's, you know, I really enjoyed that, or thank you for doing anything can be the compliment. It doesn't have to be Some amazing, you know, earth shattering compliment that you give, but it makes a difference.

Here's a really interesting application. This isn't anything part of the book, but my wife once said to me, many years ago, she was feeling a little bit down and she goes, you only love me because you make yourself think positive thoughts about me. And I laughed and I said, if love's a choice and I can choose to focus on the good or the bad, isn't that a good thing? It's not really dependent on how I feel all the time. It's dependent on the choices that I make. She has flaws, I have flaws. I could focus on those flaws and maybe I'd get a little angry. But I choose to focus on the things that I love about her and that puts me in a good mood and that enhances the relationship. And that's available for anybody to do to make that choice, to look for the good in others.

Right. Well, that's our, you know, focusing illusion, which in this case is a power, a benefit of the illusion and the, you know, confirmation bias that, yeah, if you want to look for the bad stuff, you'll find it. And if you want to look for the good stuff, you'll find it. Yep.

Life's a lot happier when we're looking for the good in people and they're responding positively to us, for sure.

Yeah. My husband and I both had been married before, and there are some scars when you come out of that, where the other person that you were used to would say something or look a certain way and you're on edge. Right. And we have these in business all the time, too, where you're worried someone's going to point out the thing that you're really sensitive about. And so we made an agreement very, very early on that we would just always assume the best of intentions. Like, I know that you love me and that you're thinking great things about it. And if I have that moment of why would he say that? To think I must have heard that wrong. Let me clarify. Right. And we can. We can do that in business, too.

Absolutely.

So I really do want to talk about the new book. And so can you tell a little bit about the three books that you have and how they differ from one another, why you felt compelled to write this third one?

Sure. So the first book, Influence People, I would say, is a business psychology book. It takes a look at the principles of influence that we talk about. It looks at business case studies. It gives real business examples from my career and things that I've Observed. It also takes a look at the use in social media and some other things. The second book was called Persuasive Selling for Relationship Driven Insurance Agents. Very specific market. I came out of the insurance industry. That's where I focus most of my effort. So I wrote a book that took a look at again, the psychology. But then how do you apply it to different buying styles? And I have a model that I call Deal. How do you apply it throughout the sales cycle? Because a lot of times people hear this information, they think it's fascinating, but they don't know how to apply it to their prospecting or to their presentation or closing a sale or doing a better job asking for referrals. So the book is very specific to that. The third book I wrote because I know there's a lot of people who will not pick up a book. That's a heavy business psychology. And there's an awful lot of people who won't pick up a sales book. So I thought, I want to give my hand, I want to give it a try at writing a business parable. Because there's a lot of people who in business will read a good story. And I thought, can I teach influence through a story? And that's what the Influencer Secrets to Success and Happiness is about. It's a story that follows the life journey of a young man named John Andrews. You meet him when he's born and you follow him through his career and you learn along with him from people, peers, mentors, coaches about how he's learning influence and integrating it into his professional and personal life.

Yeah. And so I know I have mentioned to you one today before we started talking and what I think was a year ago or more when you first told me that you were working on this book and doing the book in this parable narrative way to where I bow to the glory that is you have even trying to take on. I enjoy reading stories. I know the value and power of them and I, you know, short stories I'm good at. But creating characters, even when they're built on real people and trying to not cross paths and all the things that would go into writing a fiction type narrative book, I think. And I bow to everyone who's listening who's ever attempted something along those lines because it's just so complex and there's so much to it, but, you know, five dysfunctions of a team. When I first read that, I was really amazed by that book. I think it was so well done in the way that it explained the different concepts you you learn and get to know the characters, and you can relate to people like that. You know, when you read it. And when I first came across that, I thought, whoa, this is such a cool book. I would love to one day be able to look back and say, I wrote that. But the idea of writing it, I don't think I could ever get past. So I'm interested in how you even jumped on that full bandwagon to say, yes, I'm going to do that. And if you can share a little bit about the process and how it's different than writing, knowing it's a nonfiction fiction hybrid. But, you know, with the other books being solely business nonfiction books, I approached.

This book like I did parenting. I didn't read any other books or take any advice from anybody. I'm seriously, I didn't. You know, when our daughter was. Just before she was born, I remember thinking, I'm not going to read any books on parenting. I just want to figure this out. I trust that God will give me what I need. And it worked out wonderfully. But with this book, I didn't sit down with any kind of structure, format, outline, nothing. I just started writing from the beginning. And I would literally go over to Starbucks and think, like, what do I want to write today? And I remember one time thinking, guy doesn't have any adversity in his life. Okay, something's going to happen in his family. And I just started writing, and it just kept coming, and, oh, he's met somebody. This person's going to say they want to go back to his home to be with him during this critical time. And it just all made up on the fly. What was easy was envisioning what the characters might say or do, because they were based on people that I really knew. So, for example, the lady Abigail in. In the book who John meets, she's modeled after my daughter Abigail. There's a character named Bud who is modeled after a friend. His nickname is Pud. But, you know, things I learned from Pud, I brought into this character whose name is Bud, and he's the neighbor that everybody knows and likes. So those parts were easy. But I just had to think about where do I want the sequence of the story to go. You know, there's a time in the story where he's mentoring somebody and this person runs into a problem. I had no idea that that's how the character would evolve, but it just. It just kind of kept coming as I sat down and. And wrote. And then the interesting thing was, Molina, when I got towards where I thought was the end. And I wrote this last sentence. I was like, it's done. That's it. I know I'm. I don't need to write anymore. I was. I was like. Just felt so satisfied, like, this is the perfect conclusion for this. And then I spent a lot of time going back and cleaning things up and maybe adding some details. But. But the structure of the book just. It just came.

Yeah. How does that differ, I guess then, from the first two books? Or was it kind of the same setup for you?

Well, the first book was interesting that I took a lot of blog posts that I had written over the years, and I was able to segment them and recompile them. And there was a lot of work to that, still having to write openings and transitions, but I had a very good head start on that. And that was that book I just wanted to get out because I had been working on it for years before I left my corporate job, but I was just so busy, I would keep putting it off. So I made that my number one priority when I left the corporate job because I knew that it was an authority enhancer. You know, silly as it sounds, you have better opportunities at speaking engagements when you've written a book. Writing a book has nothing to do with your ability to stand on stage, but it's a credibility factor. So I wanted to make sure I got that done. The second book took a lot of thought to put down approaches for, for example, throughout the sales cycle. What's the psychology that's best? What are the very clear examples I can give to insurance agents of using, for example, authority or social proof in their prospecting so that they'd be able to read that and go, oh, I get it. And I see how I can take this and use it. So it was a lot more technical, I think, than creative, which. The last book was extremely creative.

Yeah. Yeah. What's the response been so far as with the various books? Anything different with this one? As far as what you're seeing with the feedback?

Definitely getting people who wouldn't have read the first two books. So that's. That's gratifying because my goal is to spread the word, and so whatever means I have to do that, I want to take advantage of that. So to have somebody say that, you know, I never would have picked up your sales book. But I read the the Influencer and I loved it. I had one person who's read it three times and said, you know, it's really speaking to me, and that is incredibly gratifying. The second book that I the persuasive selling has been gratifying because it's the basis of a one day workshop that I do. So I get a lot of traction out of that. When people come to the workshop, they get the book, we go over the concepts. And then the first book was. Was awesome in its own way because it was named one of the top 100 influence books by book authority. And that was an accolade I never saw coming. So I only have one child, but I would imagine if I had three child children, I would love them all the same, but for different reasons or see different things. And that's kind of how I feel about the books.

Yeah, they definitely all serve a purpose and, you know, it's nice to see how those come into play. So for those who are thinking, like we said, the authority piece is really important and for speaking, for trainings or whatever. Yes. Having a book, while that halo effect may not technically correlate perfectly. Right. It does make it to where people assume that you know more of what you're talking about. And because for a lot of people that is thankfully true, that when we write books, we have at least put thoughts into this at a higher level and are better at the things that we are doing. It's not always the case though, but, you know, good to see some of that. So was it like after the first book and then you were having some speaking and realized, you know, I've been doing a lot of these workshops, it would be great to have a book that goes through this framework, or did you kind of always know that was going to be the way that it would go?

I always knew that would be the way it would go because I do workshops for Robert Cialdini, Principles of Persuasion, Pre suasion, some things like that. But sometimes those aren't necessarily right for the audience. In my time in the insurance industry, when I was interacting with insurance agents, they always wanted more specifics. And so we go a little bit lighter on the psychology and a lot heavier on the application throughout the different points in selling. And so I knew that I had a market for that. I had been working with that information for more than a dozen years. I conceptually understood how it would all look and so I was able to pull all of that together. So I wrote that book in fairly short order. That book was less than a year in the making. But I understood the material so deeply in my audience that I knew exactly how to go about doing it.

Yeah. So I think my next question. I know I brought up that I think you convey liking very well. So first would be if you can summarize those persuasive tips. You know the concepts. We've talked about a few of them already. But can you share a little bit of the summary of what those I suppose now seven principles of persuasion would be and anything that you think is important that you would add.

Okay, well, we talked about liking. Right. It's easier for people to like those that they know and like, or easier for them to say yes to those they know and like. The principle of reciprocity is that feeling of obligation we have to give back when someone first gives to us. You clearly see that at play in the book. Then there's unity. And unity is a lot deeper than just liking. Liking can be very surface, but still enjoyable. But unity is about shared identity. We are far more likely to say yes to people that we see being of us, our tribe, maybe our faith. My father is a Marine was a great example of that. There is a deep, deep connection there. And when you realize it's there, you want to make sure that you bring it up because it becomes easier for both parties to help each other. And then we talk about authority. People are going to say yes more to those that they look at as having wisdom or expertise. Social proof is the fact that human beings, as social creatures, we're heavily impacted by what other people are doing and how are they thinking, feeling, what are they doing. If we can bring that to bear in our conversations, it will impact how other people think, feel and behave. And then we have the principle of consistency. And I really love this one because it's so powerful but underused. And principle of consistency says that as human beings we feel this internal psychological pressure, but also an external social pressure to be consistent in what we say and do. And I always boil it down to this, Molina, word and deed. Human beings essentially little pleasure seekers and pain avoiders. We feel better about ourselves and we know we look better to other people when we keep our word. And so we tap into that by asking instead of telling. Then the final principle is scarcity. And everybody gets this one. We all want things more when we think that they're rare or going away. All we got to do is look at Black Friday to recognize that here in the United States. So that's a high level look at the seven principles.

Yeah. Can you share an example? And very obviously you can use something from the insurance industry, knowing that's like top of mind and lots of examples, I'm sure. But maybe if you have something that shows them all or looking at a sales conversation or something to show. This is like the, the bad version and this, the simple tweak. Like a couple of tips that people can consider of how to make these tiny little shifts. Okay.

Well, the first shift would be with liking. Don't go into a situation trying to get people to like you. Have the mindset that says, I want to come to like the people I'm with. I think people will see that genuineness and that's what opens them up. The next thing, when it comes to reciprocity, the probably the mistake that people make most often is confusing it with rewards. Rewards are contractual. If you I will. If you do A, Molina, I will do B. If you don't do A, I don't do B. Reciprocity is. I have. Will you. Melina, I've done B. Would you mind doing A for me? Right. So by, by being the first to give. Quite often people will just naturally give in return. So it's not a negotiated thing and there's risk with it. But, but that's the confusion that people have with reciprocity when it comes to authority. One of the mistakes that people make is trying to tout themselves as the authority. And I'm always recommending to people get the third party introduction. If you've got this golden business opportunity, if it's the person who connected you to the person you'll meet or maybe somebody higher up in your organization, have somebody send something on your behalf to build you up as an expert. Because if you try to do it yourself, you're going to sound like a braggart. When we get to social proof, the big problem is a lot of times people are highlighting behaviors they don't want. For example, oh, Melina, can you believe 70% of college students are cheating these days? Well, when you put something like that out there, you're normalizing the bad behavior. You want to look at what the positive trends are like. Hey, fewer and fewer students every year starting are cheating. So, so you want to move them into the positive behavior direction. When we get to consistency, the big problem is that people tell others what to do and they think because they were very clear and they're telling that the person should just do it, but without any ascent coming back. You've not triggered that internal psychological desire to be consistent. And then the final thing with scarcity, probably the big problem that people have there is they almost come across like a fear monger, you know, trying to scare you into doing something and all you need to do is sometimes instead of talking about rah, rah, rah, here's all the positives in doing business with us, Molina. Here's what you give up if you, you know, competitors are fine, but here's what you give up if you don't choose to go with us. And that simple reframe from a loss to or from a gain to a loss gives people some time to think. Do I really want to give that up? That sounds like a really good deal. So those would be my back and forths on those.

Awesome. Thank you for that. And then so everyone knows there are past episodes of the brainy business that have dedicated episodes on scarcity, reciprocity, social proof, framing, the focusing illusion, confirmation bias, pre commitments, loss aversion. We'll be tagging all those in the show notes. So if any of those really stood out for you, you wanted to learn more, they will be waiting there for you. So you mentioned that the consistency piece is one that you really like because it gets underutilized. But do you have that you would say is a favorite concept or kind of like a go to that you think is most important?

It always depends on the situation. I will share one way that I utilize consistency to enhance my authority when I get back to people. For example, today I sent a proposal off to a potential client. We had a great conversation the other day. They asked me if I'd be able to get them something by the end of the day Friday. I put in the email as promised. That highlights that I did what I said. And so I think that's a powerful way to enhance your authority, gain trust. Hey, this guy does what he says. It's using consistency on myself because I want to live up to my word. So I find that to be really powerful. Another thing that I find really powerful too is that when you've done something for somebody. So let's say, Melina, we're in a business relationship and, and you call or email and you need some information. And I say, you know, Melina, it's going to take me a little bit to get that. Can I get back to you tomorrow? So I gather that information, I put it together, I shoot off an email. I always would put at the end of that, melina, is that everything you were looking for or Melina, does that answer your question or something to get a confirmation from you that I've given you what I need, what you need. But more often than not, if you do your job well, somebody comes back and says, oh my gosh, thank you. That was so Much more than I expected. You've been now elevated in their mind by getting them to focus on have I done my job? Otherwise some people might just respond with a quick thanks. So that's a really important question. I always set it apart from everything else. It's the last thing before they see my name. And almost every time people will answer it. And again, do your job well and you're going to get praise.

Right. And I know we talked about that quite a bit when you were on the show the first time. This, the value of ending on a question when you want someone to be taking the action and how that can have such an impact. And yeah, instead of just saying, you know, well, let me know if you have questions. But if you want that conversation to move forward. I've found that there are some times people reach out. Like if people are trying to pitch me on something, I will often end in a statement intentionally to see if they're going to overcome that initial teeny tiny little barrier to kind of prove it out. Right. It's very simple thing. If it's something I'm really excited about and want to make sure it happens. And please everyone who gets emails from me, don't read too much into it because. But you know, ending on that question of did I answer all your questions properly? Is there anything that I missed here, you know, whatever that is, to be able to help encourage that conversation to keep moving.

Well, the email that I sent to that potential client, the last sentence was something along the lines of would it be okay to stay in touch with you periodically, comma, perhaps quarterly, comma, so that we can, so I can see how you're progressing and we stay in touch. Something like that. But I'm specifically asking, do I have your permission? Because if they come back and say, oh yeah, that'd be fine. Now they're more likely to read my emails, answer my phone calls because they said it's okay for me to, to reach back to them. Those little things matter a lot. You do that with enough clients and you're pretty darn busy with all your quarterly follow ups with these different people, but you are staying top of mind. And when the time is right, then all of a sudden you're getting business opportunities that you wouldn't have if you weren't staying in touch or if you were staying in touch but bothering them.

And I think that comes back to the liking piece too. And that just really knowing that all of life in sales is a long game anyway. You know, it's good to put Put the goodness out into the world and in some way or another it will come back to you. I know that there are so many guests who have been on the show and who I have then been on their shows and, and whatnot, who have been direct referral from Mr. Brian Ahern saying, oh, you know, you really should talk to my friend Kwame. I say, I'm so glad that I talked to Kwame because Kwame is amazing. And I love every time that I talk to Kwame. And I believe Gleb Saperski was an introduction. Gleb wrote the foreword for my second book, which is going to be coming out later this year and had. Have had him on the show a few times as well. And that liking the connection, the, you know, down the way where those people, you don't even know what could come from just being a kind and thoughtful person.

Right. And, and so we don't do it for really any reason other than being kind and wanting to help those people that we have come to know and like. And, and then we just trust that if, you know, like Zig Ziglar used to say, you can get everything you want in life if you would just help enough other people get what they want. That's the principle of reciprocity. Be a giver. It'll. It'll eventually come back to you. Right. People with the right skills and the time, they'll want to help you when, when you need it.

Right? Yeah. And they, they remember and know those things, even if they don't know it was you. You know, don't do it for the accolade of, you know, I'm only going to refer someone if they know that I'm the person that made this connection or whatever it is. You know, just what is the, you know, give first and whatever. I don't know what the saying is. I feel like there's someone embroidering that for a pillow right now.

That thought never would have crossed my mind, but.

I'll have to get go do some embroidery after this. Make a little cross stitch or something. So fun. So is there anything that you haven't had a chance to talk about a lot recently or something that's next on the horizon or things that you're excited about right now that you want to share?

Well, the one thing I'm excited about, which you and I talked about, which is wholly unrelated to business, is that our daughter is getting married on June 3rd. So all eyes are on that day. I mean, I'm not even anticipating a whole lot of after that, it's just like we're all lasered in on that. And I've got a busy few months, too, with a lot of travel and things coming up. So that's the big, exciting thing. The other project that I'm working on is not related to Influence, but it's a story about my relationship with my dad. My father served in the Marines. That can be a really difficult thing on the person who served, but also on the family. And so I'm writing a book and I'm going to call it His Story is My Story and about our relationship. My goal with that is that whenever it's finished, it's going to be a resource that I will give to the Marines and say, look, just go to the publisher, get it at cost. Give it to guys who are serving, because they're going to be changed, some good, some bad. Their families are going to see that and they're going to be reacting differently. And maybe if they see a story of a father and a son that kind of went through, that maybe they'll be able to meet in the middle a little better. So that's. That's my next project.

Interesting. And love that, like you said, putting it as just something to give freely out into the world for the value that it can create. That's very generous.

Yeah. I think my. My father, having served in the Marines and going back to the principle of unity, he would have done anything to help a Marine. So I think, you know, he would be looking down and be very happy that I am doing something to help his band of brothers.

That's. That's wonderful. And of course, congratulations to Abigail. I'm sure it will be a wonderful wedding.

Yeah, we're. Yes, it will be. There will be a lot of tears from me.

Well, wonderful. And so as. As people are now looking, they're excited to find all of your books and like you said, your blog and all the things. What's the best way to learn more and get in contact with you?

Two ways. Reach out to connect with me on LinkedIn. And I will guarantee you, if you don't say that you heard me on the show, I will be coming back and saying, how did you find out about me? Because I like to know why people reach out, but it does keep the social in social media, so that means you're going to have some personal back and forth with me. The other spot would be my website, influencepeople Biz. You go there, there are links to all the podcasts I've been on, all the Blog posts I've been writing weekly for 14 years now, previews of some of the videos and there are links to to the books. So all of that's available on the website.

Fantastic. We will have links to those in the show notes and of course, thank you again, Brian, for joining me on the show. It was a very likable, genuine, reciprocal conversation of, I don't know, we'll just stop there.

It was fun to smile and laugh, of course.

Have a good one.

Thanks.

Thank you again to Brian Ahern for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? I always love connecting with Brian and as I said in our conversation, he genuinely is one of the most likable people and one who's always putting others first. So many of the wonderful guests on this show came from Brian reaching out with an introduction. As I said, Gleb Supersky and Kwame Christian, who have also both been on the show twice, are people who I met because Brian took the time to send an email. I trust Brian and know that he has my best interests at heart. When he sends a recommendation, I pay attention. He's someone who really gets the long game of business and knowing that relationships are central to everything. When you put goodness out into the world, it will come back somehow, some way, and usually in a greater quantity than what you put out there. These are of course, based on Cialdini's principles of persuasion, including liking, reciprocity, social proof, unity and more. The concepts that already have episodes dedicated to them, as well as my interview with Bob Cialdini, Kwame and Gleb are all linked for you in the show notes, which are waiting for you@the brainybusiness.com 199 and I want to leave you with this one last reminder of a tip before we close out the show, a lesson that's highlighted in Brian's business parable, the Influencer. Don't ask how you can get people to like you. Instead, find ways that you can like other people. When you genuinely like people and find things in common with them, everything gets better. Oh, and give out genuine compliments and kindness as often as possible. They're like a glass of water to a thirsty person. They make a huge impact. Again, the show notes for the episode are waiting for you@the brainybusiness.com 199. In them you will find, of course, a link to get your own copy of any of Brian's books, as well as to other books mentioned on or related to the episode. Related past episodes, ways to connect with Brian and more. Whatever resonated most with you on the show or a little tidbit you're excited about or intrigued by, please share it with us on Twitter. Brian is on Twitter as at Brian Ahern and I'm the Brainy Biz. Tag and chat with us there and of course get all the goodies. Waiting for you in the notes@the brainybusiness.com 199thank you again to Brian Ahern for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Next week, join me for episode 200 of the Brainy Business Podcast with a very, very special guest. It's going to be a lot of fun. You won't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.

Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help business businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources visit thebrainybusiness.com.