229. How Vulnerability Loops Make Team Communication More Effective

Welcome to episode 229 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. Today's Behavioral Economics Foundations episode is all about vulnerability loops. Ready? Let's get started.

You are listening to the Brainy Business Podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now here's your host, male Melina Palmer hello.

Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. Today is a very exciting episode, talking about something really critical for fostering strong teams the Vulnerability loop. Many companies and managers have prided themselves on being strong, always showing confidence in the face of any crisis, and ensuring that people never show weakness or vulnerability. But is this the best approach? Does unwavering strength make a team stronger? Does exposing your weakness increase the likelihood that people will use it against you? What's the best path for a company and how should it encourage its teams to act? That answer is coming to you as we dig into the episode and learn all about vulnerability loops as a quick housekeeping item. Before we jump in though, I want you to know that I'm going to mention a lot of past episodes and related books and articles during the show today, but you don't need to take furious notes because I've already done that for you. All the links and a summary of the episode content are waiting for you in the show notes, which can be found within the app you're listening to and@the brainybusiness.com 229. And as always, because this is a Behavioral Economics Foundations episode, you'll also have a free worksheet waiting there for you to support your note taking and applicability of the concept. Go ahead and grab that that now@the brainybusiness.com 229. So what is a vulnerability loop anyway? The first time I really spoke with someone in depth about this was with my friend John Levy, who wrote the fantastic book you're Invited and was a guest on the show in episode 150. John and I talked about this in more depth while I was interviewing him for my second book, what your Employees need and Can't Tell youl Because as you're likely already gathering from the introduction to this episode, while I will be talking about this on a personal relationship level as well, I'm really showcasing the vulnerability loop from the perspective of how to apply this in your teams at work. Before we get into the model and what a vulnerability loop is, I want you to take a moment and think about the people you're most closely linked to. Those you have a really strong bond with. Those people you trust wholeheartedly. Those who you know have got your back no matter what. This could be a family member or a friend, a co worker, and even someone you've never really met in person. Perhaps someone you've been bonded with over social media. You don't have to have known them for a long time either, but that connection can still be incredibly strong, maybe stronger than people you've known your whole life. Now take a moment to reflect. Why do you feel this way about them? Why is it different than anyone else in your life? If it's a co worker, why do you feel more connected to them than your other colleagues or a friend or cousin, or the countless people you engage with on LinkedIn or Twitter? You get the idea. Try and dig down to the root a bit. Why are they different? When did your opinion of them change? When did this bond get to be stronger than the ones with others in your life? And don't just say that it's always been this way, because I'd be willing to bet you didn't meet this person and instantly trust them more than the countless other people you meet each day. Something was different. Something different has happened now that you have your person in mind and are searching for that critical moment. I'm going to talk a bit about the vulnerability loop, which will hopefully help you bring some context to this. When John and I were discussing this, he talked about the idea of having everyone coming together with a shared trust building experience. Like what happens when you pledge a fraternity or a sorority. Even if you didn't pledge a house like that yourself, I didn't either. You've probably seen enough movies to know that there is typically some hazing involved, even if it's frowned upon, and some bonding that the pledge class goes through to prove they're worthy. They all endure something difficult together that creates this lifelong bond. Do you know people who still meet up with their fraternity brothers or sorority sisters every single year after decades? Why did those friendships last longer and stand the test of time, even when the people don't have much else in common at all? This shared experience where the participants were vulnerable created a trust bond that is hard to break even after decades and otherwise drifting apart. So what about those who didn't pledge a house in college? Perhaps your ride or die friend is someone whom you endured high school with lots of opportunities to be vulnerable there, or who you shared a about parenting insecurities with or who was part of your training class when you started a new job. The anonymity of social media allows for people to get vulnerable when they otherwise wouldn't as well. Perhaps you opened up to a faceless code named person in a way that you don't feel you can around your real life friends, family or co workers. Maybe you took a cooking class with someone, or dance or painting or anything else where you feel you have no natural talent and it made you feel a little apprehensive. Again, vulnerable is the key word here today, bringing your person back in mind. And of course it's totally okay if this has shifted to someone else. Now that you're learning more about the vulnerability loop, try to pinpoint a conversation or experience where you allowed yourself to be vulnerable and they did too. Perhaps it's something I've mentioned, or maybe it's something different. You'll know it when you find it. And potentially there have been multiple over the years with the same person. So try to think back earlier and earlier. What is the first one where things changed? What's really amazing is that it doesn't have to be a long interaction. This could have been only a few seconds, really, a moment where you maybe shared some uncomfortable laughter, someone made a little joke to start the conversation, perhaps, and the other responded in kind to help the other know they weren't alone. That's all it takes. There are five simple steps in the vulnerability loop, a concept that is attributed to Jeff Pulser, Harvard professor in the Department of Organizational Behavior, but was really popularized by Daniel Coyle when he included it in his book the Culture Code. Even though they may seem random, every vulnerability loop follows the same five steps, which are 1. Person A sends a signal of vulnerability. 2. Person B detects this signal. 3. Person B responds by signaling their own vulnerability. 4. Person A detects this signal. 5. A norm is established. Closeness and trust increase. It really is that simple. And yes, these five steps, along with some other key stuff from the episode, are on that free worksheet for you. So you can go back and revisit it time and again. And when you look at those steps, you can see where it can really break down quickly. If someone isn't ready to be vulnerable, you, Person A send that signal of vulnerability. Nervous laughter, or saying how you feel a little uncomfortable because you don't think you're a great dancer, or saying I almost didn't come today. Or as with one example Coyle shares in his book A Pilot in Crisis who said, anybody have any ideas? Person B might not be paying attention, so they don't detect the signal. But let's say they do and then don't reciprocate, the loop dies before it has any chance to flourish. If you say, I almost didn't come today and they say, oh really, I never doubted it for a second. Or if when the pilot or manager says anybody have any ideas? And the others respond with I don't know, you're the boss, that vulnerability was shut down. It ends there. And to make it a loop, you can't just acknowledge their vulnerability. There's a reason this is broken into five steps. It isn't enough to say oh, why is that? Or something like that. You can do that too. But you need to reveal something vulnerable about yourself to make it be a loop, to show the opposite of this, or missing that step of your own vulnerability. Think of a therapist or something like that. When one side the patient opens up, they're vulnerable and may trust their therapist not to say anything because they're legally and ethically bound not to. But it isn't a reciprocal trust that you get with the vulnerability loop because the therapist typically doesn't share anything about themselves and get vulnerable in return. Sure, there are exceptions, as with any rule, but in general that isn't how the relationship works. So if you want the benefit of the loop and the trust that comes with it, you can't just say and how does that make you feel? Or any other cliche therapist open ended question. You need to get vulnerable too. And it doesn't mean you have to share the exact same thing. You don't have to be vulnerable about the same thing they were vulnerable about. Instead it's about the feeling that you get of being a little anxious or nervous. Something that you feel vulnerable when you share about it. And you sharing about something that others typically would find vulnerable but doesn't phase you. That doesn't count. You need to be feeling a little uncomfortable to open the door of vulnerability, to let trust in. Now I get that you want to be able to get the trust and closeness without exposing yourself or having that discomfort, but it doesn't work that way. The good news is you don't have to reveal your deepest darkest secrets or anything. It's just a little something to reciprocate is fine. But remember, you also don't want this to be a someday you'll be cool like me statement that isn't really being vulnerable. Saying, well, I was scared at first too, but look how great I am now isn't really the thing needed for that bonding and trust. Instead, you want something that feels a little uncomfortable right now, and you want to be sure to not turn it into a one upping fest either. There's a really delicate balance here, so you want to hear their vulnerability. You got the trigger. And then there's a little something to help them know that they're not alone, that they're not out on the ledge and you're just going to let them fall. You know, you want to show that there's someone there to support them, to help establish that ongoing loop of trust. From a personal example, My husband and I were friends for a while before we started dating. When we realized we both liked each other and were trying to determine if this was worth risking the friendship. We were both recently divorced. We randomly found ourselves playing a game that we called the Worst Thing About Me. Now, I say randomly, but I've come to learn over the years that my very strategically brained husband has sometimes nudged a conversation to go the way he wants in the past. So I don't want to say he manipulates because it isn't malicious, but he is really good at reading people, especially me, and has a good sense for these things. So for all I know, this was actually part of some genius plan he had worked out. So anyway, the Worst Thing About Me was a game that let us share little things we were sort of insecure about, many of which were things we actually really liked about ourselves on some level, but that over time, whether it was because of previous partners, bosses, friends, family members, or anyone else, maybe hadn't felt fully supported in whatever those items were. So it was a little scary to put out there and own it. These were things we learned to suppress or not talk about over the course of time, and we're a little nervous to mention to someone that you like and that you want to like you. It started small and funny enough on reflection. A lot of the things I now own wholeheartedly that are my most defining characteristics were things I didn't allow to be seen before Aaron and I started dating. Things like the worst thing about me is I love glitter or the worst thing about me is I love Harry Potter. Or the worst thing about me is I always think I have enough time and end up trying to send one too many emails so I show up late. That isn't something I love about myself today, to be clear, but it can be hard to admit to. It's actually something that's hard for me to admit here publicly and makes me feel a little vulnerable saying it to you even now, but I'm still doing it. And I think that's a big piece of why people feel connected to me. After having listened to the podcast for years and years, that you feel like we're connected, as if we're having a close conversation one on one. Maybe because I do share those moments of vulnerability and people who then reach out to me and send me emails or connect on LinkedIn or Twitter and share about something they're working on or they're interested in. I think that the listeners for the brainy business feel more comfortable connecting with me because I'm willing to share those moments of vulnerability and put it out into the void for, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of people to hear. And it's a little uncomfortable, but it's a really important part of being able to connect with you. So I do it anyway, even though it feels a little bit scary. So back to the story with my husband. We got into more personal stuff as that vulnerability grew, and would then throw in silly stuff sometimes to lighten the mood. My favorite moment was after a particularly deep round of sharing, Aaron said, the worst thing about me is I I really love the band Paramore. Nothing against them, of course, but it was hilarious and still one of our favorite jokes many years later. That openness built a real trust and bond that lets us be our full selves with the other person and know that they love us no matter what. We got the scary stuff out there early on, allowed ourselves to be vulnerable, and it gave our relationship a chance to grow. So what does all this have to do with work? Well, while we don't have to share our deepest, darkest secrets with our teams or be weepy, fragile messes, being strong, silent, unwavering and confident all the time isn't going to build real trust and bond a team either. We need to be willing to get vulnerable. Brene Brown has popularized this in recent years, and as her TED talks and books have been consumed in the many, many, many millions, I'm guessing you have at least some familiarity with her message. She's someone who hated the idea of vulnerability and fought it for years in academic research and practice, but found that shame and vulnerability, this willingness to be seen as you are even when you're uncomfortable, was necessary to be someone who felt worthy of belonging. And don't worry, it doesn't have to be super gushy. As Pulser said, people tend to think of vulnerability in a touchy feely way, but that's not what's happening. It's about sending a really clear signal that you have weaknesses, that you could use help. And if that behavior becomes a model for others, then you can set the insecurities aside and get to work, start to trust each other and help each other. If you never have that vulnerable moment, on the other hand, then people will try to cover up their weaknesses and every little micro task becomes a place where insecurities manifest themselves. And as Daniel Coyle shared in the Culture Code, we have to think about trust differently. As he says there, normally we think about trust and vulnerability the way we think about standing on solid ground and leaping into the unknown. First we build trust, then we leap. But science is showing us that we've got it backward. Vulnerability doesn't come after trust, it precedes it. Leaping into the unknown, when done alongside others, causes the solid ground of trust to materialize beneath our feet. The first person has to go out on the limb to make the vulnerable leap, to start the conversation, to trust that the other person will reciprocate and catch them, and to keep the moment from stopping and falling flat. The second person is key to keeping the loop going to opening up a little more to show that they can be vulnerable too. And while it doesn't have to be only vulnerability all the time, this is something that needs a little boost back in a continual jolt of vulnerability to keep the loop going. So as a manager, I would guess that building trust within your team is somewhere on your goals list. One of the micro shift moments I feature in my book what your Employees need and Can't Tell youl is focused on this, and I advise to not have a blur background on zoom or use obviously fake backgrounds in any virtual meetings. Now, I hear you. I know this has become somewhat of a norm these days, but let me explain why. Our eyes scan the world around us constantly for potential threats and are perpetually bringing in and processing information three times per second on average. So if you have a blurred background on or a really bad or obvious virtual one, it's essentially sharing continually that you don't trust people enough to let them see the real room you're in. I know that isn't your intention, but that doesn't really matter as the brain is going to make its own association. And it's important to think about this in the way of what's actually happening instead of what we wish would happen or what we think should happen. So at a recent keynote presentation I was giving on what your employees need and can't tell you, someone in the audience asked about how to get this started and how to encourage others on the team to feel like they could remove their blurry backgrounds. My answer, you guessed it, started with the vulnerability loop. I recommended opening up about something yourself first. If you're in a messy room and using the blur, turn it off and explain why. An even better approach would be to have it on. Explain why you want to remove it. In this case because you heard me explaining about how it is potentially fostering distrust and you want to eliminate that because the team dynamic matters to you and so you're willing to get a little uncomfortable and let everyone see the space you're in because you trust them to be part of it before you feel it's perfect. They get to see the extra pile of papers in the background or the kids toys on the floor by you being the first one, hopefully someone else will feel comfortable enough to do the same. Depending on the team, you might want to tell a key person in advance that you're planning to do this and ask if they would be willing to follow suit to to start a snowball effect. But of course they can't have a perfectly pristine room. They have to be willing to show a space that's a little bit off as well and do know you can't force it. You want to encourage it. Sure, you can say that you hope everyone on the team will feel comfortable enough to show this trust in the team, but let them do so when they are ready. If you force it and make it a requirement, the vulnerability loop and its benefits are gone. As others start to be more open to this though and follow suit, the social proof and herding instincts will take over and people will be even more likely to embrace the idea. And you have the added benefit of them aligning you with trust and positive team dynamics whenever they see anyone else with a blurred background. So that's a win. Now one more piece of good news is that you don't need to be vulnerable all the time. This isn't a constant state of uncertainty and stress. Confidence still has its place, but a few key moments that can be Paying trust dividends over time are really, really important. Remember the example of pledging the frat or sorority? They didn't have to do that day after day or year after year. The right exercises can build the foundation that makes it so. People are just more naturally open to not being perfect all the time and that makes your company stronger. If people are worried about perfection, they aren't going to point out areas of concern and it can make it so your projects are more likely to fail and take a lot longer to complete because of the lack of Trust When Stephen Mr. Covey was on the show talking about his book the Speed of Trust, we discussed his equations for the economics of trust, which are incredibly simple. Essentially, when there's increased trust, things take less time and cost less money. When there's decreased trust or lack of trust, they take more time and cost more money. He was also an advocate in trusting more, trusting often and trusting first, giving trust freely until someone gives you a reason not to, and building on Tuesday's episode on Game Theory. This is also why that tit for tat strategy proves to be the best one in the long run. Trust until people give you a reason not to and learn from it. Don't be a doormat, but also have a short memory, especially for little stuff. Don't hold long grudges for things that can impact the team. To reiterate what Stephen Covey's equations were saying, when your team has trust, things are done faster and cost a lot less. It's so important in business, whether it's trust with your colleagues, managers, vendors, potential merger partners, or anything else. Trust is key to getting things done in business. And one of the best ways to build trust is with a vulnerability loop. He shared a story about how he built trust after the Franklin Covey merger, which had two teams that were very much at odds. He sat with the full group and said, I'm here to answer any questions you have. Whether they were things that could make people uncomfortable or that were hard to talk about or that they didn't know the answer to yet, he was there for all of them. He spent hours answering questions, every one that people asked, which I'm sure were of varying levels of pointedness and vulnerability. They probably started pretty easy and then got to harder stuff. There was an ebb and flow, but he had to go through the rough stuff to build that tr. And it isn't enough for your management team to say, you know, we're ready to answer all your questions as long as they aren't about this or we aren't going to answer X, Y or Z. But anything else, you know, the easy stuff we already have a PR approved answer for is totally fair game. That just isn't going to cut it. If you aren't willing to get vulnerable, you aren't going to build trust. Period. In this climate of people feeling undervalued at work, like they aren't appreciated and that they don't matter, this is such an affordable way to help them to know that they do matter. You don't have to invest in expensive programs or wellness packages. I'm not saying those are bad. You can definitely have those too. But if you don't have the budget for them, it doesn't mean you can't do anything. You can encourage a little bonding and vulnerability and it can go a long way to establishing wellness and trust. Now, I'm guessing you might be wondering about how you can get your team to start having some of this bonding with without fraternity level hazing. And I'm happy to report that it's by no means required to do that to get these benefits. Yes, there are things like trust falls or other intense bonding, but you can also incorporate some good, thoughtful questions. You know I love that and see the benefits. I'm going to list two sets of questions and statements which are featured in the Culture Code. Ready? Here's the first set. What is the best gift you ever received and why? Describe the last pet you owned. Where did you go to high school? What was your high school like? Who is your favorite actor or actress? Okay, here's the second set. If a crystal ball could tell you the truth about yourself, your life, the future, or anything else, what would you want to know? Is there something that you've dreamed of doing for a long time? Why haven't you done it? What is the greatest accomplishment of your life? When did you last sing to yourself to someone else? These two sets of questions probably seem pretty similar, right? You need to share personal stories and information, but there's a big difference between them, as one is more likely to create that vulnerability loop than the other. Can you guess which one and can you identify why it is the second set of questions? Because they make you more likely to be a little more apprehensive and have that moment of hesitation before you answer. It's subtle, but oh so important. That second set of questions are part of a longer list of 36, which you might have heard of. After the New York Times published an article that made it somewhat viral around 2015 called the 36 questions to fall in Love, it was also featured in an episode of the Big Bang Theory. So you know I love it. And While you could Google 36 questions to fall in Love to find them all, I've linked to an article in the show Notes that talks about it and shares some insights on the research behind these questions. These are a good place to start as you think about question prompts for your team. And don't worry, it shouldn't lead to everyone falling in love with each other, especially when spread out over time. But asking these types of questions were found to make people feel 24% closer to the strangers they went through the question questions with than those who had the easier types of questions like in the first set, a 24% increase in closeness on your team from some thoughtful conversation seems like a great value to me. All the questions are great and have their own reasons for being part of the Fall in Love quiz, but I wanted to list out a few more that I really like for teams from the list of 36 in case some of them resonate with you as a great place to start on creating some of these vulnerability loop moments on your teams. All right, here we go. Before making a phone call, do you ever rehearse what you're going to say? Why? Name three things you and your partner appear to have in common. Now I particularly like this one and the others like it because of how they can help to trigger the unity principle from Robert Cialdini, which I Featured in episode 216. This helps people to be more of an us, where we get to be a we. It expands our circle of empathy. We see people on a different level and really, really valuable for teams. So any of those where you're finding something that you and your partner have in common is really valuable in that way. All right, our next question is for what in your life do you feel most grateful? If you could change anything about the way you were raised, what would it be? Take four minutes and tell your partner your life story in as much detail as possible. What is your most treasured memory? If you knew that in one year you would die suddenly, would you change anything about the way you're now living? Why? What does friendship mean to you? Alternate sharing something you consider a positive characteristic of your partner. Share a total of five items make three true we statements each. For instance, we are both in this room feeling Complete this sentence. I wish I had someone with whom I could share. If you were going to become a close friend with your partner, please share what would be important for them to know. Tell your partner what you like about them. Be very honest this time, saying things you might not say to someone you've just met. Your house containing everything you own catches fire. After saving your loved ones and pets, you have time to safely make a final dash to save any one item. What would it be? Why? And yes, I know there was a lot in those questions and they are part of that freebie worksheet. And again, there is the link to the full article that has all 36 questions, which are broken up into three sections that get kind of more vulnerable as you go. So, yes, that's all for you in the show notes@the brainybusiness.com 229. And as you heard those questions, some of them maybe had you thinking, ooh, I couldn't ask that, or I couldn't have my team talk about that, or concerns about what that might open up or how you might not feel comfortable answering the question. Now, I know that this feels a little bit off, but you gotta lean into that feeling, right? Because of the vulnerability piece here. The ones that make you feel a little are ones that you want to move forward with. And I challenge you to, you know, practice this with people you already trust, but potentially finding people that you don't have that close of a relationship with, and see how you might test with them to see if it can make some headway. Now, one last note before we close out this episode on vulnerability loops. I know I already mentioned that you don't have to have the same exact item or vulnerability that you share with someone else, but the flip of that is that it's really important to not judge someone else's vulnerability. The person you're talking to might share something that feels really scary and personal for them, but it wouldn't be for you. So you might laugh it off or say, that's dumb. You shouldn't worry about that. If you take nothing else from this episode and the lesson on vulnerability loops hear and retain this. Being the second person in the loop is key to it. Being able to form, make an attempt to be more attentive to the way someone is sharing their message with you. If you're paying attention, it can be easy to see the apprehension that comes with vulnerability, the nervousness and hesitation. Whatever they're sharing, don't minimize it. Everyone has the right to feel hesitation about anything in their life. You probably have something that you think is scary that many others would say comes naturally to them. Remember that. And don't tell people that their concern or fear or hesitation is silly. At the very least, validate it. And if you can, share a little something from your own vulnerability to help create that trust bond. This simple tweak in your approach can help all your relationships get stronger at work and in your personal life. And for one other important thing to remember, it's to trust. First, be ready and leap and know that the right people will catch you. That ground of trust will form under your feet. If you're willing to jump, don't just wait for others to share their vulnerability and be ready to reciprocate, but also be willing to go first and don't get discouraged if someone shuts you down. Try again. Know that this is an investment in trust and belonging and value. It's worth it. And yes, it is scary. But that feeling of discomfort can be reframed in your mind. Think of that feeling as a positive thing, as showing that you're making strides to be a person of value and helping others to feel more welcome in this world. And isn't that a wonderful thing? As a reminder while we're closing out the show, I know I mentioned a bunch of past episodes, books, articles and other things. Today. They are all linked for you within the show notes@thebrainybusiness.com 229 along with your free Vulnerability Loop worksheet. You'll also see that when you get that worksheet or any other one from the Brainy Business, you're going to be joining the Be Thoughtful Revolution community. And when you're there with other people from around the world who are interested in behavioral economics, come join the discussion and you might see some of these Vulnerability Loop questions sneaking their way in from time to time. I would love to connect with and get vulnerable with you and share. So come on over, share with me, get to know some other people that we can build this area of trust. It's going to be a lot of fun. And again, it's all waiting for you at the@the brainybusiness.com 229. And just like that, episode 229 on vulnerability loops is done. Join me next week for another Brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast. It's going to be a lot of fun. You don't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me. And remember to be thoughtful.

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