234. What is Value? (Refreshed Episode)

Welcome to episode 234 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy.

Today's episode is called what Is Value? Ready? Let's get started.

You are listening to the Brainy Business podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.

Hello.

Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I.

Want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast.

Today's episode is all about value, what it is, what it isn't, and why.

It matters for businesses. Value is something you hear about a lot, but it isn't necessarily something that we intuitively get or what drives our motivation to buy things. In today's episode, which originally aired as number eight of the podcast way back in August 2018, I talk about the difference between value, price, worth and cost and how they all matter in business. There are personal examples like buying weird things on ebay or paying a ridiculous amount for a grilled cheese sandwich.

Seriously, I want you to think right.

Now about the most you would ever.

Be willing to pay or what you.

Think someone should be willing to pay for grilled cheese, and then see what.

You think when the number is revealed.

Later on in the episode.

I chose this episode for you today.

For a couple of reasons. First, because Lee Caldwell, the guest on Friday's episode, wrote a book called the Psychology of Price, which of course brings value to the table. Whenever we talk about price, value is a key aspect. Also in the episode this coming Friday featuring Tessa Mishazek, co author of Branding that Means Business, she talks a lot about value and values and what they mean in an organization and for its employees. That got me thinking about this episode. It's one I really love, but don't end up talking about all that much.

So it felt like it would be.

Fun to bring it back to the forefront for a little moment in the sun. So as you listen today, think about the value you create in your work. Of course there's the obvious in your products and services, though the way we struggle with setting prices and understanding the value created for others with the work we provide shows that while this is an intuitively obvious connection point, it isn't often obvious to know those those numbers. And I also want you to be thinking about the less obvious side of value for your employees and teams working within your business. What are your values as a company and how is that different from the value you create? How can your values be informing value and how does that tie into worth both of the organization and the self worth of everyone that's involved with the company. This will set you up for a very interesting listening experience when you tune in for Friday's conversation with tessa in episode 235. And of course, don't forget about the Show Notes for the episode with links to related past episodes and books like those from Lee and Tessa, which I've already mentioned, as well as lots of other great content that didn't have episodes when this one first aired back as episode eight of the podcast. Those notes are found within the app you're listening to and at the brainy.

Business.Com234 and that gets us to the theme of this episode. What is value anyway? We use the term all the time, but do you really know what it means? Where does value come from and who decides value? Before we dig too deep into this topic, we need to talk about definitions. People tend to use the words value, price, and worth interchangeably, but they are not the same thing. Again, price, value and worth are not the same. They work together, but they're actually quite different. There's a great article from the Human Condition which breaks this down in detail, and I'm going to summarize the key points that matter to you here in the episode in case this is your first episode with the Brainy Business podcast. Even when I don't mention it directly, most everything is linked in the Show Notes. If you think I should look into that, check the Show Notes first, either in your app or by visiting thebrainybusiness.com 8 because this is episode 8 because I've probably linked it there to make it easy for you and free your conscious brain's capacity to listen and learn. Okay, getting back to price, worth and value. What do they mean and how do they work together? I've already dug into price on episode five, the Truth About Pricing, but I will explicitly state it here. Price is what someone is willing to pay for a good or a service. The article in the Human Condition also talks about the difference between the terms cost and price. Because cost has a negative connotation. It comes at a cost which activates loss aversion in your mind. Price, on the other hand, is simply how much it takes to purchase something. Items have price tags, not cost tags for a reason. Opportunity cost is something discussed fairly often in business, and that kind of gets at the difference between cost and price as well. If you have $100, you can only spend it once when you use it to buy something, say a new microphone for the podcast, you give up the opportunity to acquire anything else with that hundred dollars and any profit that that new AC position would hold. The opportunity cost is greater than the price of the individual item. Worth is different because it's the expected selling price of something. And why is that different than the actual price? Worth is what you get with an appraisal and is how you would speculate a possible sale or what it might take to replace a piece of property. This is long term and does not mean the item is actually up for sale. Things have worth even if they do not have a selling price. Last week in episode seven on Change Management, I talked about the endowment effect. This is the phenomena in our brains where simply owning something causes us to find more worth in it than what other people see in it or its stated price. The example from the study which I've linked again in these show notes talks about a group of participants. Half were given $2 cash and the other half were given a lottery ticket worth $2. These were assigned completely at random. After a period of time in which the lottery tickets were not cashed, the participants were given the opportunity to switch and very few did. Why? If you were given the lottery ticket, your brain has started to factor in the potential winnings into the calculation of how much that item is worth. This potential means it exceeds the $2 price tag. If you were given the cash, you see that as a solid, stable amount. You know what you can do with $2 and what it can get for you. The lottery ticket has a very slim chance of being worth anything and it's most likely a worthless piece of paper, whereas your cash has remained the same. So it wouldn't be worth the gamble to give up the sure thing for the lottery ticket. Being endowed with something, owning it caused people to see value in its potential, which meant how much it was worth in their mind exceeded the price and the potential cost of giving it up and settling on the other item would be a loss. And as we know, people are averse to losing things. Now that we have covered price, cost and worth, it's time to talk about value again. I link to the article from the Human Condition because it does a great job of breaking these concepts down in all sorts of aspects. Everyday language versus Economics versus Business. And as the article says, value is the usefulness or desirability of a good or service, how much you love it or what it is worth. To me, value is not a number, but often we can compare the values of two things, especially if they are similar in use. Value is not a number and it's based on how much you love it. As humans, we tend to take value for granted, but things do not intrinsically carry or hold value. It's all in our perception. Value is subjective, dependent upon preferences of the individual and the social context at play. Value is in our minds. Value is also personal. Think of all the things in your life you would not be willing to sell because they have sentimental value. My office is full of these things. My gold octopus, which I have mentioned before on the show, which I bought before embarking on this journey of entrepreneurship, was the first purchase of my new life. I think it cost me about $35. Honestly, I don't remember. But I would not be willing to sell it for that price. I got it on sale, so Maybe it's worth $50 to someone else, but again, I would not be willing to sell it for that price. As prices go up and up, I don't know where the number is, how much the item is worth to me in dollars because I value it and what it represents so much. It has a story. And oh, our brains love stories. And those closest to me know how much I value it. Let's say someone broke into my office and stole the octopus. I can feel my heart twinge just thinking about it. Could it be replaced? I could go back to the gallery and see if they have another one, and maybe it would be from the exact same mold, but it would not be the same and I would likely never value it as highly as I did the original, even though they're worth the same to everyone else. When this gets to an extreme, you see tendencies like hoarding. Anyone else would walk into that house and see a bunch of junk. Maybe there are a few pieces and they're worth something, but it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to dig them out. The owner of those items would tell a very different story. All those items hold extreme value in their minds, and in many cases they would not sell them for any price, especially not the pittance people would be willing to pay for them. In real estate, you see this when people insist on overpricing their homes far above what they appraise at or what they're worth, they have memories in the home that make them value it so much more. This is where little Tommy took his first steps, or where Susie learned to play the guitar, or where Chi Chi the dog used to curl up in front of the this home is filled with love and memories. Don't those people care? No, they don't. Because in Many cases, other people don't value your memories. Sometimes you can get them to with stories, which I'll get to later in the episode. But getting people to be realistic about the worth, price and value is very important when you are trying to convince them to see sell an item, especially one as sentimental as a home. So how do you get from sentimental value to a greater market value? One way is through a process called herding, which is built in our brain's desire to be part of the crowd to create a market for something someone needs to say an item has worth and get everyone else to buy in to create the price people will be willing to pay. Why does herding occur and what does it have to do with value? Herding is one of those concepts that is rooted in our mindset as a species and in reality our inhabitants on this planet, because many species, including fish, sheep and wasps to name a few, exhibit this behavior as well. Herding is something that keeps species alive, and while it would be nice to think this is motivated by a power in numbers aspect, it actually has more selfish roots. Individual Protection if you are in the center of a group, you are less likely to be eaten by a predator. Those who go off on their own generally do not make it back, and our brains are trained to assume that the collective consciousness of the group is must know more than we do on our own, or they must know something I don't, and we buy in instinctively to the value and worth of others expertise, whether it exists or not. Herding value, perceived ownership and loss aversion work together in things like bidding wars, which have been made more public thanks to sites like ebay in recent years. When you add scarcity into the mix, watch out. Here's an example and let me warn you in advance. This is a weird one. If someone came up to you on the street and offered to sell you a kidney stone. Yes, I said a kidney stone. How much would you give them for it? If you're like me, you probably thought, well gross, I would never pay anyone for a kidney stone. What if I told you it was Elvis's kidney stone or Benjamin Franklin? Would you pay something for it then? Maybe you would be more willing to chip in a couple bucks in case you were able to resell it at some point. And I'm somewhat regretful to say this is not purely hypothetical. Someone actually bought William Shatner's kidney stone on eBay for $75,000 back in 2006. Why does that have any value at all? Who would possibly want that? Clearly a Lot of people. Because it had to bid its way up to that point. And this is how hurting, loss aversion, scarcity works. Your brain might say, if others are willing to pay for it now, it will likely rise in value over time and there might never be another one. I better jump on this and buy before it goes really crazy. This is something you see all the time with works of art. Art is a space where people constantly ask how much things are worth and what their value is. And sometimes we might scratch our heads and say something like, they paid how much for this thing? No way it's worth that. My 5 year old could have painted that. What happens when someone with a lot of money really wants a piece of art? They buy it. What happens when two people with a lot of money really want a piece of art because of the scarcity? Remember, there's only one and perceived ownership. They can see where it will go in their very large home. And loss aversion, not wanting to give up this vision of who who they are, if they own it, they get into a bidding war which will set a new value, worth and price forever. And there's a ripple effect that occurs as this translates through the herd. We take it as fact that this item is worth that much. It now holds a value we couldn't see before. We assume it's based on someone else's logic, scrutiny or evaluation, when it actually could be the whim of two billionaires who each have equally bad taste. As an example, a couple weeks ago, my husband and I went to see a painting by Jean Michel Basquiat at the Seattle Art Museum, which recently sold at auction for $110 million, the most for any American artist. Art is subjective.

Yes.

And I have to say I don't get it. I find the painting to be weird at best, and I have no idea why anyone would have paid that much for it. I've shared a picture of us with the painting on social media. Go check it out the brainy biz and let me know if you see the value and think it's worth the price someone paid for it. Again, $110 million. Here's the thing. Basquiat will never be the same. American art will never be the same. Graffiti style art will never be the same. The herd will catch on and people assume this is a new value in painting. Basquiat is a name I had never heard of before, most probably hadn't. But now he holds a record. He has more value as an artist and the price of all his other works will likely increase. And as a note, as he is has passed away, there aren't more that can come about. So there is a lot of scarcity that is placed here on the art. To prove my point that it only takes a few people to raise the price like this, here are some interesting points from an article I have shared in the show Notes about the sale of the painting. The man who bought it, Yusaku Ma, said, when I first encountered this painting, I was struck with so much excitement and gratitude for my love of art. I wanted to share that experience with as many people as possible. Nothing about it stated value or worth or the price before he wanted it and had a dream for it and had to have it. When it went up for auction, there were four contenders for the painting and the bidding started at $57 million. As a side note, four other works from Basquiat were sold at that same auction, ranging in price from 1.2 million to 6 million. Why were those priced so low? Or perhaps the better question why was the one painting's initial price so high? The quote from the chairman at Sotheby's Europe said, it really shows the strength of the market as well as a very determined group of buyers. The people of Sotheby's know how to start a bidding war because it's valuable for their business in both the short term as they make a percentage of the bid and in the long run because it increases the overall value of art. Getting interested parties to raise the visibility of Basquiat the artist is good for Sotheby's. Consider the buyers of the other four Basquiats that day. Their investments have probably already increased in value even though nothing about those paintings has changed at all. Why is that? This is where it all comes together and how this can be replicated in your business. This is the power of a brand. Brands are what give companies value, or in this case, artists. Basquiat is now a brand and all of his paintings are tied and associated with that brand. Brands give you loyal followers which create herds and when you can incorporate scarcity, loss aversion and stories, then your value increases beyond the price others are able to charge. Why do brands matter? Anyone who knows me knows I could talk about this forever, but I will do a small summary here. Expect more episodes about behavioral economics and brand building, which in truth, that's what this whole podcast is about in many ways. Because brands are why people buy. Brands are why it's not about the price or the item itself, and why it's not about the cookie Brands bring value to companies and the widgets they provide. A phone is just a phone until brand loyalty comes into play. Apple is the second most valuable brand, not company brand, in 2018 at $146 billion. That's far above its longtime rival, Microsoft, with a brand value of 81 billion. And it's also higher than Samsung and Google. I am one of the 700 or so million iPhone users in the world today. I'm on an old model and it actually tends to frustrate me a lot. It can be slow, and I know I don't have all the best features, but I don't hold that against iPhones in general or Apple. I know it's because I'm living with my old version. When I upgrade, do you think I'm going to be looking at Samsung or any other type of device? No, I won't. I know I want the next iPhone. I have loyalty to the brand. I am an iPhone user. This says something about me, and it has become part of my identity that I don't want to lose. That is the power of a brand, where a commodity becomes a statement and it's no longer about the price. Similarly, I love chai tea lattes, but not just any chai tea latte. It's all about Starbucks for me. In a pinch, I would get one from another company, but I will relate it back to how much isn't like my regular Starbucks chai. This experience actually builds up my love of the brand I am loyal to because I expect it to be worse, and so my brain thinks it is. In episode two of the podcast, the top five wording mistakes businesses make, I read a quote about expectations from Dan Ariely's book Predictably Irrational, which I'm going to paraphrase here. Our brains get what they expect if they are set up to believe something is amazing, it will often interpret the thing as amazing. If something is explained as bad, you get that too. Here's an example of a restaurant putting all this to work to elevate themselves above all the other restaurants in the world. If you were going to have a grilled cheese sandwich with tomato soup and a vanilla sundae for dessert, how much do you think that would cost? If we're talking basic ingredients made at home, maybe a dollar. If you were out at a basic restaurant or cafeteria, maybe it would be around $10. Can you imagine anyone making grilled cheese or a vanilla sundae any more valuable and exciting than that? Serendipity3 in New York City, their quintessential Grilled cheese sandwich has the Guinness World Record of the most expensive sandwich in the world. The bread is baked with Dom Perignon Champagne and flecked with 23 karat gold. It's brushed with white truffle butter before going into the panini press. It uses the creme de la creme of cheese from some special cows in Italy. Apparently there are only 25,000 of them, which sounds like a lot of cows to me, but I'm not a bovine expert. When asked, the owner said the cheese has a cross in flavor between a Manchego and a Parmesan cheese. You could buy for under $10 and theoretically get a similar flavor. And it's served with African lobster tail bisque for a total price tag of $214 for your grilled cheese and tomato soup. I'm sure it's delicious, but is there any reason to pay that much for a sandwich? Do you kind of want to know what the fuss is about? What does it say about the restaurant as a whole? How did they create that value and make people want to pay that much for a grilled cheese? And how expensive are the other items now that this high anchor has been set? Listen to episode five for more information on anchoring and adjustment. Even with the expensive ingredients, the value they paid for them is not what customers pay. And is it really more than 20,000% better than the grilled cheese they make at home? I'm guessing no, but they were able to establish value and make people feel like it's worth paying for. They got a lot of press and notoriety and have established their brand as being upscale and different than everyone else. If someone else was to make a really exciting, expensive grilled cheese now, it would not have the same value because they're simply copying. Serendipity three and Second Place is not worth anywhere near as much, even if the ingredients or taste were actually better because the herd has spoken. By the way, there is a link in the show notes to the buzzfeed video of three average people trying the quintessential grilled cheese. If you would like to watch it. Serendipity 3 combines scarcity and exclusivity to create brand value. Exclusivity is the celebrity factor and it has a large impact on value and price. Think back to the famous kidney stone. Again, I'm not sure why anyone would want that, but it is truly something no one else can get and people value uniqueness. Tie that to a celebrity and people will buy a lot of things. Does this actually have any value physically in what it actually is? Of course not. But in its scarcity and ability to be tied back to a celebrity. Apparently it does. Similarly, why are autographs worth anything? They're just ink on paper. After all, why is a Marilyn Monroe worth more than a Melina Palmer? By the way, I'll give you a great deal on my autograph if you're in the market. These values are all made up in our brains. If an alien landed on the planet and was looking at a bunch of autographs, they wouldn't know Babe Ruth from John Doe. So why does it hold value in our minds? How did the value get there? As with so many applications of using behavioral economics in your business, framing is the key. In the case of the quintessential grilled cheese at Serendipity 3, I'm sure it's good. But what in the explanation made it sound better to the brain and built the anticipation, which I also talked about in Episode two. If the tasters had not been told it was a $214 sandwich, would they have liked it as much in a blind taste test? Would they have attributed the same value? How much did the owner's explanation and framing of the making of the sandwich and the high quality ingredients have to do with the perceived value? He was confident in his explanation and said the price without hesitation, which is also key when establishing value and justifying a price. What if, when someone asked about the sandwich, he said, well, we know it's kind of exciting expensive, but you know, we think it's pretty good. It kind of tastes like Parmesan. It has metal shavings throughout. I'll give it to you for 200 bucks. Want one? I'd be willing to bet no one is buying that sandwich, even for $2. Honestly, a Parmesan grilled cheese sandwich sounds pretty unpleasant even without the shaved metal. But when the cheese came from special cows in a select region of Italy where they only eat the greens of strawberries and licorice to produce a limited amount of cheese each year. And you have to order it 48 hours in advance because it's so special. And it has flecks of gold and is accompanied by not just lobster bisque, but African lobster tail bisque. It sounds special. Speaking of which, do they even have lobsters in Africa? Are they better than the ones in Maine? Are they more like crawfish? I don't know. But our herding brains have built up an expectation that this guy must know something about lobster, which is why he picked it, which means it must be better and worth the money. So our expectation is it will be amazing. And miraculously it is. And in case you were wondering where the vanilla Sundae comes in, Serendipity 3 also offers a $1,000 Tahitian vanilla sundae which is also covered in gold leaf. Did you notice there it isn't just regular vanilla? Personally, I don't know what gold tastes like, but apparently putting it on food is a ticket to attention, media coverage and high price tags for basic meals. Because it has been used in currencies and we know the history of gold, we expect the meal now must be worth the exorbitant price tag and we will want to be able to tell the story to brag about that time we ate a grilled cheese sandwich flaked with gold leaf because like the chai tea latte or iPhone, it says something about who we are. And our brains love stories. They help people remember concepts more than bullet points or features or anything like that. Which is why my podcast episodes or videos or live presentations are filled with them. Stories are memorable. Stories make brands Speaking of which, let me tell you another story about how someone created value out of thin air. And a lot of it. Have you ever heard of Tahitian black pearls? They cost much more than white pearls, about 10 times more, according to my research. And people say it's because it takes a special black lipped oyster in a special part of French Polynesia to create these little beauties. As you know from scarcity, less available should equal the ability to demand a higher price which justifies the tag. But it wasn't always that way. According to Dan Ariely, also in the book Predictably Irrational, Tahitian black pearls almost didn't make it out to the world at all. In 1973 there was no market for black pearls, and when a renowned dealer known as the Pearl King went into business with a Frenchman to sell the pearls, there was absolutely no interest. All his initial marketing efforts failed. And remember, this was a man who had a reputation and distribution chain for pearls. He was the Pearl King. He did not sell a single black pearl in his first trips. He could have declared them worthless, mixed them in with white pearls and tried to grow their value that way, or sold them at a deep discount. But he did not do any of these things. Instead, he waited a full year, during which time they collected the best of the black pearls and brought a strand to his friend Harry Winston. Winston agreed to place the strand prominently in a Fifth Avenue window display with an astronomical price tag similar to the high minimum bid Price on the Basquiat. This price was completely arbitrary. The Pearl King concurrently ran one advertisement in the glossiest pages of a high end magazine with a strand of Tahitian black pearls surrounded by diamonds, rubies and emeralds. What had happened to the pearls themselves? Nothing, of course. They were still the same black pearls no one wanted a year earlier. Putting an arbitrary number on a display does not change the value, nor does proximity to a precious stone, right? I mean, if a lump of coal had been sat next to the rubies and emeralds, it wouldn't be worth more, right? That is of course a joke. As we all know where diamonds come from, and as you know, that is not what happened here. This scheme, which was very inexpensive in the long run, considering how much the pearls sell for now, worked because our brains aren't that logical. The price tag set an anchor. The Winston name had exclusivity and scarcity. The glossy advertisement instilled confidence to the herd. Tell the salespeople what to say and boom. Instant value. Why the change of heart or brain? In addition to scarcity, anchoring and relativity comes one other aspect of herding. Our brains are trained to believe what they learn first. Until proven otherwise, our brains believe what they are told and hold those things as fact. Especially when it's seen. Sounds really convincing or appealing. Are black pearls only naturally occurring in the 1500 square miles of French Polynesia? I don't know for sure because I haven't searched the whole Ocean. Does that $200 grilled cheese actually use the fanciest of cheese from the most select cows? Or is there a Manchego parm blend in the back room? I don't know. If. Is Tahitian vanilla better than Madagascar vanilla? Where does the other vanilla come from? Who does the tasting? I don't know, but my brain believes it to be true when it is framed as a positive thing and these nuances surround us everywhere every day. Yes, I used some extreme examples in this episode to get the point across. But this does not only apply to high fashion or very extreme expensive sandwiches. Like I said, my brand loyalty to Starbucks was built one chai tea latte at a time. Starbucks is a four dollar empire. Well, five dollars depending on what store you go to. How do you build this value for your own brand? Good news, the foundation for that is already built in the last three episodes. It's not about the cookie because it is about the perceived brand value of the cookie. How can you build value in your brand? For one thing, check out those freebie worksheets for episodes 5, 6 and 7, which you can get on the brainybusiness.com 5 or/6 or/7 and then work on your differentiation. And there is a reason companies are built around their values. What is at your core? Why are you different? How can you translate that into what you offer and align that with the values of your current and potential customers? Whether you're selling checking accounts or homes, executive coaching or $200 grilled cheese sandwiches, brand value matters. In business, establishing brand value is the key to loyal customers who are willing to pay premium prices. And you may not believe it, but people get more value when they pay more. I'm sure you've heard of the placebo effect, but did you know price can be a factor in how much people think a pill or cure worked for them? Arieli and his team did a series of tests where a brochure claimed the power of a pill called Velodone. In one brochure, it cost $2.50 per pill, and everyone felt the effects almost immediately, reporting positive results. When the brochure listed the price of the pill at just 10 cents, only about half of them felt the effects. Oh, and for the record, it was a simple vitamin C tablet, so it didn't actually have any impact on the ailment it was supposed to be curing. This has been tested with aspirin. When you have the brand name of aspirin, people feel like it cures their ailments better than if it's a generic. And price comes into play there as well. It works with energy drinks and a whole host of other items, and this shows how price and perceived value are linked in the human brain. Higher price means it must be better and have more value. Before I wrap things up, I want to talk a little about measuring sticks for value like currency. Here in the US this is the paper or coin money attributed to dollars. But why is that worth more than the paper it's printed on? We believe value will stay consistent, but currencies have shifted a lot over time. I talked about gold and how we know the value of that because it's been used as currency. The value of items goes in and out of fashion. And as scarcity drove prices of various items up, many of the things we take for granted today were once recognized forms of currency. For example, if your employer or one of your clients was to come to you tomorrow and say, I'm going to start paying you in salt and pepper, would you feel that was a good thing or a bad thing? What about small beads or puka shells, or a giant 4 ton rock with a hole in the middle, or one of my personal favorites from ancient China, knife money, which were actual knives inscribed with words like fish or sheep to indicate their value, or perhaps dolphin teeth or squirrel pelts. All of these have been recognized forms of currency and at one time or another valued due to their scarcity and some more recently than you would think. So remember, value is subjective. Value is in our heads. Value changes. Value can be created and built up, sometimes very quickly and often the right stories or pictures are all that is needed to make those changes. To get the herd to accept value, you only need a few passionate people who are willing to pay what you think the item is worth or could be worth. Descriptions and associations, the framing are what make value what it is. And you should remember this when you are positioning your brand messaging. What is your Tahitian black Pearl or quintessential grilled cheese or Basquiat?

So what got your brain buzzing as you thought about value, worth, cost, price and all the other aspects brought up throughout the episode? How can you flip the frame in how you think about the value your company is providing from the physical costs to something a little less obvious? How does scarcity tie in and the endowment effect? How can the way you talk about your products or services increase the way people feel it's valued and what they're excited about paying to be able to be a part of that. And remember to think about an aspect that wasn't really mentioned in the original episode, but that leads into this coming Friday's conversation with Tessa Mishazek, number 235 about the difference between values and value and how they work together to help a business and its teams to do great things. Of course, there are links to all those related past episodes and articles and books within the show notes for the episode which are waiting for you at the brainy business.com 234 and just like that, episode 234 on value is done. Join me Friday for a brand new episode with Tessa Mishazik, co author of Branding that Means Business.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

You don't want to miss it. Until then. Thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.

Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.