271. The Power of Scarcity with Mindy Weinstein

Welcome to episode 271 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Dr. Mindy Weinstein, author of the Power of Scarcity. Ready? Let's get started.

You are listening to the Brainy Business Podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.

Hello hello everyone.

My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. In today's conversation, I'm joined by Dr. Mindy Weinstein. Mindy is the founder and CEO of Market MindShift and was named one of the top women in digital marketing globally by her peers. She's also a global speaker, trainer and digital marketing strategist who has worked with and trained companies of all sizes, including.

Facebook, the Weather Channel, Rosetta Stone World.

Fuel Services, Investors Business Daily, HBO, Fandango, Telemundo, L.L. bean, Cisco, Transamerica, and Sportsman's Guide. Other digital marketing agencies come to Mindy to learn the latest trends, concepts and methodologies. Mindy has often appeared in the media with television interviews that aired on Fox, NBC, and abc. She's also been quoted in the Huffington Post, the Washington Post, and the Arizona Republic, and interviewed on Bloomberg Radio and others. Mindy is a monthly columnist for the Ask the Expert section of Search Engine Journal. The publications website receives about 3 million page views and 1.7 million visitors each month. She teaches and leads marketing courses at Columbia Business School, the Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania, Grand Canyon University, and University of Denver. She has a PhD in General Psychology with an emphasis in technology and is a published author of the Power of Scarcity Leveraging Urgency and demand to influence customer decisions, which is what we will be discussing today. My introduction to Mindy had fascinating timing. I had a client ask me if.

There was a good book specifically about.

Choosing the right type of scarcity tactics and how to apply them in her business, and I let her know there.

Wasn'T really a perfect fit of a a full book on this and pointed her to the chapter in my own.

Book, what your customer wants and can't tell you as a great place to start. As a note, I do know there is a great book already titled Scarcity, but it isn't as focused on application in business, which is why I didn't.

Mention it to her because it wasn't.

Going to be what she needed in that moment. It is linked for you though in the show notes as it is a great book. So later that day I got a LinkedIn message from my friend Brian Ahern, who's been on the show a couple of times, introducing me to Mindy, who had just published her book the Power of Scarcity. And let me tell you, everyone in business needs to read this. It's so valuable and such a great resource for everyone, regardless of industry. She shares so much insightful content. Some of the case studies and examples are ones you will have heard on this podcast and in my books or maybe in other locations. But some of them were brand new to me and you know, I read a lot, so I'm guessing that if they were new to me, they're very likely going to be new to some of you as well. It's applicable and awesome and I'm gonna stop gushing now so we can get to the conversation.

But trust me, you want to save.

This episode and snag your own copy.

Of the Power of Scarcity because wow. And to help you do that, there are links in the show, notes for.

Everything, including related past episodes, link to articles and books, including the Power of Scarcity and so much more. It's all within the app you're listening to and at the brainy business.com 271 now. Let's jump right in. Dr. Mindy Weinstein, welcome to the Brainy Business podcast.

Thank you so much for having me here.

Yeah, so excited to talk about Scarcity. Just anyway, you were introduced to me by one of my very favorite people, Brian Ahern, who's been on the show a few times. And I know that was through a connection of Bob Cialdini, who's also amazing and has been on the show before. And we have some commonality in that. He has endorsed, you know, both of our new books. And I, you know, any friend of Mr. Cialdini is a friend of the show and so excited to have you here. So if you can share a little bit about who you are and the type of work you do, that would be amazing.

Yeah, of course. I know, I love our mutual connection and how we ended up here to having this conversation. So my background, I've actually been a marketer for the last two decades, so I have been a practitioner, but during that time period, you know, I've had different roles and done different things, but I ended up on the academic path as well. And so I teach now at Grand Canyon University. I'm a full time marketing instructor there. And before, like as my journey was progressing, I had focused on getting a PhD. And that's the reason I'm even telling you this part is because this is really what leads to the book. So as I was pursuing my PhD, even though I have a background in marketing, I have the mba, I have all of that, I knew I wanted to study psychology because at the end of the day, you know, that's how you reach people. You have to understand people. And I think I'm stating the obvious to everyone here right now, because you're listening, you're like, yes, that's why I'm here. So for me, I wanted to study general psychology. And as I was thinking about topics for my dissertation, I started realizing that, you know, I want to focus on what motivates customers. You know, really, what are those triggers, those influence factors? Very familiar already with Cialdini's work. And then the more I started digging into the different factors, I realized that scarcity, out of all of them, seemed to have the greatest power. And it's also one of those factors that has become hardwired into our brain, which dates back to our early ancestors. So as I was starting to dig into that and like, wow, there's so much research and information, yet there's a disconnect between what we know in the academic world to what's actually out there in the business world.

And.

And that just led me on this path to work on that for my dissertation. And then, you know, I was done with everything. And then Covid hit, and when there was the whole run on toilet paper, like, I am actually watching my years of research play out in real life, like, this is insane. Like, I wouldn't have been able to predict the toilet paper, but looking at it, like, can it make sense, you know, from what I know about scarcity? And so it was about that time, I'm like, I think this information needs to be out there. And I had realized that there was so much about scarcity, it was so complex. Like, I started thinking of it like an onion. You just keep peeling away the layers. But there's still more that led me into just writing an entire book on this one influence factor. So that's really, like, where I'm at now. And so still a practitioner, still an instructor, and then now preaching about scarcity.

Yeah, I had a similar in that. So I wrote my first book in the early days of the pandemic, and I. And I did an episode of talking about COVID and when that was first kind of coming about and how our brains react in pandemics. And we're saying, like, you know, when you look at the, the toilet paper, it's something I use as an example all the time too, because it's just like so obvious. And I know here. And you know, you potentially had this where you are too, but they did a limit. I remember as you like watch the news or something comes up and it was a. They did a limit on meat that you could buy. So it was that you could only buy three items of meat when you went to the store. And I remember saying to my husband, like, well, meat's going to be sold out. Like, there's just no way. And it's going to happen immediately. Like putting the limit on. And in the midst of where everybody's in this hoarding mentality of like going, I, I loved. And okay, wait, I made a, I made a note of, of exactly how you said this at the book that you had said. Obsession is a classic side effect of scarcity. I feel like that's just so well worded and I think. And it's a little bit deeper in the book, but it's kind of top of mind here in that. So you give the example of the Star wars ride at Disneyland.

Yes.

And I think this is such a really great example for people to relate to. And we can all see. So can you share a little bit about that story?

And when I'm just laughing because, you know, I remember when I put that story in there, I thought, okay, here I'm writing a book on scarcity. I've studied it, researched, I'm a marketer, yet it doesn't mean that I don't fall for things. Are you talking about restrictions? Oh, yeah. Our brain's like hyper focused when that happens. And so I went to, it was. Went to Disney World with my family. So I have two boys, they're teenagers. And we were there like it was during the pandemic. But the park was open, but they were really limited on how many people could go on rides and all of that. So that's part of it. So never have been on this Star wars ride called Rise of the Resistance. So some of you might hear this and you're like, yeah, that's the most amazing ride. Well, I had no idea. I knew nothing about it. But the next day we were going to be going to the park that had that ride. And so I knew you had to get on the list. The list which is also. Right, scarcity, to be able to get in line when it was your time to be called to ride this particular ride. And so I woke up that morning and got up early, was ready, had my phone, I went to press the button and it already was too late. And I did it right on the hour, the time you were supposed to. And so the message I got was, sorry, the line is already filled or the list is filled, but you can try back again in the afternoon. Well, again, I knew nothing about this ride yet. Now all I could think about was this ride. And so we got up, got ready, went to the park. And the first thing when we get there, I tell my family, my husband too. I'm like, okay, we need to find where has the best phone connection, because that's where I need to be when I try to get us on this ride to get us on the list. And so we scouted, and this is ridiculous. Like, we paid all this money to go to Disney World, like, enjoy the park. But what I did from that point on, from the morning until the time where I could actually try again, was I obsessed about the ride. I thought about the ride. I can't even tell you the other things we did at the park that day, because I was so hyper focused on this ride that I knew nothing about. So the time came, I had the perfect spot. You know, I was ready this time. So the hour came, I hit the button, and we got put on a wait list to be on the list. And I was like, oh, I feel like that was almost worse. And so you could hear around me, though, that there's all these people trying to get it on the same time. So some people are booing, some people are cheering, they're excited. So then again, obsessively, all day, I wanted to see, are we going to move from the wait list to actually be able to ride the ride. So I didn't even get to enjoy myself the rest of the day. All I thought about was this ride. But guess what? We got. We got on the ride, and as, like, our number got called. You go, and then wait in another line. And as we were standing there, I turned to my oldest son and I just started, like, thinking about all this. Like, I. I wrote about this. And I turned to my son, I go, what happened? Why are we doing this? And he goes, because everyone else wants to ride the ride, too. And he said, and then kind of made the comment something to that effect, you know? And I remember I stopped at that. It's exactly what happened. This ride was in high demand. It was difficult to get on. And so what happens with your brain when you're faced with something like that? It becomes a Urgent. And it becomes an obsession. And that's what happened. The ride was fun. It was fun, but it just pretty much wiped out the rest of my day again in my memory. I can't tell you anything else we did that day. Just the ride.

Right? That's the thing that. That was there. But it's such a great example and we can, I think every. Not just like parent. Right? Like, we can see ourselves in that. And then you build up. So I was making a lot of notes while you were talking here where I think that. So definitely I have an episode on the dose brain chemicals. So we've got like lots of dopamine going as we're building up anticipation about what could be happening here. We've obviously got hurting going on where it's. Everybody else wants it, so I want it too. You get some of that social proof with the people around you who are cheering or not. And it's like we're all kind of in this together and we're excited and you're talking about it and you're trying to find it and you're focused on it and that's everything is. And then we get like surprise and delight of if I'm gonna be able to get there or not. We've got some peak end rule stuff coming in about like what you remember of the whole experience.

Experience.

I mean, there's just like so much in this one thing and I think it's just so valuable both in your experience going through that and what it means when you think about Disney and, you know, rides and. And needing. You need the thing, you need it.

Right.

And so I think it's just such a perfect example. And what I think is so interesting about scarcity, I see this with my clients and stuff a lot and for creating my own stuff. Right. Because like you said, when we. We sit and go to do our own thing, we. We are. We're still human. Right. At the end of the day, even though I know I shouldn't do whatever the thing is, you know, sometimes you still get kind of sucked into whatever it is. But when we look at. We know that we get excited about things that are scarce. You know, concept. Like, we know people do that. We know we do that.

Yet when it comes to creating that.

In our own businesses, and this is, I think, more for the small business and entrepreneurs, I think a lot of large businesses have. Have pretty well mastered this and they do it a lot. But for a lot of people it can be really hard to actually make things scarce because we feel like we need to be fair that everybody wants to have the same access and people are to get mad if we don't have enough of everything. And so this to flip the mindset. And even though we know that it works, it can be really challenging to implement in business. What sort of tips or thoughts do you have in kind of that dichotomy?

Yeah, and I have a lot of thoughts on that.

Good.

So, because that is another thing with scarcity, even before I give examples, is that it is something that you can implement and it always needs to be genuine. We're not talking about artificial and just completely, you know, manufactured scarcity. But it, if it is authentic and something is truly scarce, why not communicate it? And what's so helpful for small businesses is that as I'm going to give you examples, I'm not talking about things that are going to now cost you more money because we're always mindful as a smaller business, like I don't want to add like now an additional cost or now there's a bunch more work because I have to do such and such A lot of times it's just your wording that's what makes the difference. And so knowing how to word certain things to show the perception of scarcity and letting people know makes a big difference. So I know that was all very vague still. So let me get like more tactical here. I will first give you an example. And so there was a, a founder of a business that I interviewed for the book and she now it's a multimillion dollar business but when she started, you know, of course we all start small and she has this jewelry brand that is now very popular among celebrities and all that, but they're mainly on, on online. So it's an e commerce business. And when I was talking to her, you know, I, I actually had reached out to her because I felt like they did a really good job with the whole idea of scarcity showing things that are in high demand. So. But when I interviewed her, it was really interesting because with what you just mentioned was part of her mentality like I don't want to run out. I want to make sure that there's always enough product for everybody. You know, you're doing all of these efforts to get people to know about your business. You don't want them to get in a situation where now they can't buy. So she was telling me that yeah, her biggest fear was running out of stock of one of her jewelry, you know, types of jewelry she was offering. But it did happen and then she realized that when she would notify customers that this particular item had been restocked, stocked, so she said she found that out by accident. Just put the word restocked into the email subject line, the product sold out again and then they ended up with pre orders. So now they constantly have pre orders and they have wait list and they run out of product. But she was telling me that that is one of their keys to their success today and they're a multi million dollar business. Was not being afraid to run out, but making that actually an asset to you. And now she didn't purposely, you know, do all this, but what she did was she communicated with people. So she let them know this has been restocked, which triggers that demand related scarcity. This is popular. It does ignite a little bit of the loss aversion, you know, which is, you know, if we really want to talk about the buzzword is fomo. You know, I don't want to miss out because all these people and how we already talked about social proof, you know, all these people bought it. It's just now restocked. I better check this out. It's a word. It doesn't cost you money to add a word. But then when I've talked to other business owners, it's interesting too to perspectives, you know, and I'm like going to interrupt myself for a second. Okay, I want to just say for a second it was fascinating because I had done all this academic research on scarcity. I'm a marketing practitioner, like I said, with all this experience. But when I started working on my book and I was doing interviews of different companies and marketers and executives, I realized that it is insane that scarcity isn't just like it is associated with value and all these other things, but it has other side effects, good side effects, I should say. And things like excitement that it causes and community building and all of those kind of things. And so when I was interviewing, actually he's the founder of 1-800-FLOWERS. He was talking about, you know, they have their website, you go on there and there are so many arrangements and yes, they are a big company, but this applies to small companies too. Huge assortments, you know, what are you going to pick? And if you're trying to buy something for a loved one, you haven't been on their site before. Like you could just go down a rabbit hole. So he said what they started doing and it was really just to help customers is they would like notate. This is a bestseller, most popular bestseller. When they would do that. Of course sales for that would go up. But it was actually he re like viewed it as helping the customer because they're overwhelmed with all the different options. Help them take that mental shortcut and say this is the best seller. That's demand related scarcity. But businesses can, even if you're like an actual in person store or a restaurant, showing what's the most popular package that people buy. You're a gym, you can show that. You can show the most popular item on a menu. You can put a sign up that says restocked, you know, something just came back in stock. Or your example, the restriction on meat. There's, there's a lot of studies that support that because you say, oh, you can only buy this amount of soup, you know, cans of soup, they're on sale, you can only buy five. Well, people are gonna buy five because now you've conditioned them to do that. So things like that doesn't can cost you money. Now you can get a little bit more creative and part of scarcity is showing that there's, you know, you can have exclusive events and groups and communities, you know, that's a little bit more creative, can take a little bit more of a budget. But having an exclusive annual holiday event, you know, where you invite your top customers or clients to, that's also still scarcity and it helps people feel special. So there's a lot that you can do from a business and even a small business that isn't going to break the bank.

Yeah.

We feel again though, it's like so.

How for the person that says, but if only some people get to come.

I'm going to lose all those other customers that didn't get a ticket or that can't make it right.

Right. And I mean that's, I understand that fear because that you don't want to get to a point where people feel like they're excluded. But there's also the motivation to well, I want to be invited next time. You know, what does it take to be invited to this, you know, special event? And you know, this example I'm going to give you, I mean it is a bigger company, but I actually think they do a really good job with it is Nordstrom. So Nordstrom has an annual holiday event and they invite certain tiers of their members, you know, so which is based on how much you spend. So there's good and bad that goes right. If you're on the invite list, you're like, yes, oh wait, that means I spent a lot of money at Nordstrom this year. But you know, people, it's a well known event but people know that, oh, to be invited I have to be at this level of a customer. So it's things like that, you know, that can work. But I, there is always going to be that fear, you know, and I get that. But you also have to kind of change your thinking a little bit of, okay, let's just try it and let's see what happens and you know, and, and see what the reaction is.

Yeah, and there are so many, there's so many examples of this working. When you were talking about, I don't know, so Nordstrom and the spending made me think of the Birkin bag.

Oh yes. Yeah, the special Birkin bag. I actually put that in my book too because that's just amazing. So the whole thing with luxury goods, you know that luxury goods strive with supply related scarcity when there's only a certain amount of units. And that really speaks to those people who want to be unique. You know, they want to be different, they like self expression, they want to be admired. And that's really where things like the Birkin bag are very, very influential because there's only so many that are produced and we see that even with, you know, luxury automobiles, you know, anything that again has a very limited production is going to draw those people in.

Right. Yeah. And that's so one of the things that I really appreciate in your book and I think you talked about this a little bit. So you know, scarcity was something that you got fascinated with and starting to look at and seeing how powerful it is. And I think it's a, it's an interesting one that gets like a little overlooked because like I said, it's something that people get in. You know, we say oh yeah, scarcity, people do that. It's a term like of all the things, even from loss aversion or reciprocity, it's definitely the most used term. Like people think they know what it means and so it just doesn't end up getting a lot of extra research or breaking down of the different types. And I don't know if I just haven't actually been reading in the right spots about scarcity or if there's some. But like where you're breaking down like the. I think it was like four types. Like these are the four types of scarcity. And so like yes, conceptually this is scarcity and then here are four types. And then as you're looking to be advertising, I'm, I'm a sucker for context. And priming. So I loved having this in the book too. Right. So where you're saying, hey, if you're, if it's the episode of Law and Order and then this type of ad comes on, it's not going to work. But if this was the one on Sex and the City, it would work because of this. And you know, in this world of just like mass buying and we end up having our ads placed, you know, wherever they happen to show up, whatever is playing on YouTube or whatever, you know, people have stopped thinking about this in a way that they used to in like, you know, Mad Men sort of days. I remember an episode of Mad Men where Harry is doing the original kind of TV ads and saying, no, we can't be having this playing at this time in the show because. And they're like so focused, you know, because there were three channels, there are three options of shows.

There weren't as many options yet.

Yeah. So you can, you can be diligent on that. But you know, there's a bit of, when you're looking at this scarcity tactic, you can still be a large retailer, something that's making a lot of money and having a lot of customers, but be more focused to make sure that the things where you are advertising are going to be working for you instead of being a waste. And this understanding of not just, oh, we'll make it scarce, ta da, and just sort of like throw it around, but saying, you know, no, there's, there's time based, there's quantity based, there's what? So I'll let you dig in on all of that here. But I really love how you broke it down in the book and made it very applicable and understandable for people.

Yeah, no thanks. And that is really like, again, as I was doing my research, you know, there's those categories and when I was working on the book and I would tell people, you know, because you always have the conversation of oh, what's your book about? And I say, oh, it's about scarcity. And get the, oh, are you talking about like those emails I get that say buy now or flash sale today only. Those are so annoying. I mean, I'd hear the same kind of comment and I like, it's a lot deeper than that, you know, And I'd start whether they wanted to have the full, you know, lecture or not, I would go ahead and give it to them and tell them the different types. And so I say, well, that is actually time related scarcity, but did you know, so let's break down the different types of scarcity and they don't work for every product category or service category and they don't work for every customer. And I think that's something that also people should understand. So the four types, and I've alluded to these as I've been talking, so we do have time related and that's any kind of time restriction and that, you know, those are your flash sales, your coupons, those are, you know, limited time offers or it could even be a limited time product. Like I always throw out the McRib because everyone knows the McRib. I mean that's, there's a lot there, but that's, yeah, that's a whole nother thing. So that's time related. Then we have demand related. And that is where scarcity exists because of high demand and that's where popularity comes in. That's also where like when I was mentioning bestsellers, wait lists, those are all things that indicate demand related scarcity. Very big for those, I could say like a lot of everyday type products or things that aren't necessarily conspicuous where you know, we're going to showcase this one thing that everybody else has. Well, that doesn't really work for that. It does though. Like people who want to just conform to a group, they are drawn to things that are demand related or if they need to take mental shortcuts, demand related. And actually I'll, I'll, I want to elaborate on this one a little bit before I go into the next two. This is the, I feel like one of the best examples of demand related and even that mental shortcut, you know, if you're at the grocery store and you're buying a product you haven't bought before and you don't know that, you know it's in a category you don't really know and you're at the store and you see all the different brands, let's see, all the prices are pretty similar. Well, we know through research that if one of those products or one of those brands, there's only a couple units left compared to all the others that are fully stocked, you're going to automatically reach for the one that there's only a couple left. Because in your brain you've now made that mental shortcut of that many people can't be wrong. So it's social proof too. Like why would so many people buy it?

I have to interject, I have to, I have to. Because there was a study that you talked about in the book where you're talking about the six year Old kids that were given the option to pick up stuff and I love it and it's so related here. And so if you can talk about this and it's because, okay, my stuff I, I mentioned to you, you know, I do a lot with pricing strategy. I talk about all these things a lot. And my thing with pricing is so pricing isn't about price. All the stuff that happens before the price matters before the price. It's like values its own thing, like and the way we communicate something is much more indicative of whether someone is going to buy it versus how much it costs. Right. And, and scarcity is a big aspect in that. And so this thing of showing like as small children where there's no actual monetary value on the thing, I love. So if you can, yeah. Talk about that a little bit. I, I think it's just fascinating.

Totally. So you know, one of the things with scarcity, especially demand related like I'm talking about, there's a feeling of competition because if there is only so much to go around and we're looking at demand, something's popular, like you feel like you're in competition. So the study that I include in the book, it involves six year olds. And so the researchers brought these six year olds in and you know, one at a time they were brought into a room where there was two stacks of presents and they were wrapped the same. So they same shape. I mean everything was the same but there was one pile, so a high pile of these wrapped presents and then the other pile actually was only one present. Again it all looked the same. And so the child was told pick one, you get to pick one. And most often they picked the pile that there was only one left. And it became even stronger of a choice when they were told that, oh there's going to be another, you know, child coming in after you to pick a present. Because then it was that well they want to get that one before someone else does. And it just showed us six years old that this happens. It is so hardwired in our brain. Our brain just takes that immediate action of like I want that because that's going to be the one that there is only one left. And so I don't want the next person to get it. So no, that's, I'm glad you brought that up because it's a really good example.

Yeah. And again it's, they're identical, they're all the same. Like why would you want like the.

Why would it matter?

Right.

Yeah, but it did. And then when you think about it you're thinking about the six year olds. You might even be thinking like, yeah, I think I would probably pick that one too.

Well and it's, yeah the highlighting of it too that it's the one thing and how like I am, of course my brain's going in all the directions. I'm always trying to make the connections. Right. But is it like you're able to have some perceived ownership when there's the one thing and you think about what might be in that box and there's like a paradox of choice problem with the, the giant stack of presents and what if I pick a bad one and then it's on me versus, you know, I don't know. There, there's so much to it. But we'll leave that for now.

Yeah, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot there. So okay, so that was demand is what we were just talking about. But there's two more. And so you have your supply related scarcity and that's where it could be a shortage, distribution shortage of some type. But it can also be an intentional restriction on supply. I make a point to like explain the difference. So demand we're looking at. Okay, there's a lot of people who wanted this supply means. It doesn't necessarily mean it was a demand issue. It's just, there's just not a lot of this particular item or a service or any of that. When I think about like and I talk to a lot of consultants, like you automatically have supply related issues because you're a consultant and you can only have so many hours that you can consult clients. And so but that's just something to kind of keep in mind. But supply related, that is really again word like the luxury goods. So anything that's conspicuous too. So conspicuous consumption that tends to fall within supply related scarcity. And that's why a lot of luxury brands limit where you can find their products. They're not located everywhere. There was even a big lawsuit involving Dior years ago where they went after, you know, supermarkets that were selling their fragrances because that made it. So it was just available to everyone and there wasn't that supply related or exclusive view of the product. Now with supply related, that really speaks to people who have a need for uniqueness. They want to be different than everyone else. And what I think like a great example of a company that has figured out supply related scarcity is Nike. I think about my boys specifically. Like, I mean Nike, Nike is going to do a drop. They're doing a drop. They're dropping this new shoe. I mean I hear about this all the time, like that's nice. But it doesn't mean we're going to buy it. But they know that. Okay, we're only going to release so many. So you see that a lot with different again those conspicuous items that people buy. And then the final one is limited edition which technically is part of supply related. I call it out separately just because it's a whole nother type of scarcity like you could use in a different way. But that's any variation on the original. So it could be a variation on the packaging of a product. It could be. The product itself is slightly different. Limited edition. Like you think of the pumpkin spice latte, you know, at the Starbucks, which such a great example of that. I mean that's also limited time because it's available certain times of the year. But those are the things that still can bring in people who want that self expression. But it's also can be something fun great for people who collect items because again it's a limited edition so it tends to have more value associated with it.

Yeah. I have episodes on actually so I do behavioral economics analysis episodes. I have one of Disney. I have one on Costco and I have one on Starbucks. And when you talk about. And scarcity comes up in every single one of them.

Yes.

Because it's such a big thing. And I talk of course about, you know, PSL has its, its time in there. But also the Unicorn Frappuccino.

Oh wow. Yes. Right.

The total scarcity situation.

Oh, I still remember when that came out because in one of my classes a student was like, have you tried the Unicorn Frappuccino? I'm like, the what? And then it turned into this whole thing they're pulling out their phone showing me and. And it was just. And then I think about the video that the Starbucks employee posted about like please no one order any more uniform unicorn.

They're terrible to make.

Oh gosh.

Yeah.

It was so funny.

Yep. Well, and that's so it was a re. That was something that had the. It's such an interesting example and how you break it down here.

Right.

So it was a supply, limited supply related scarcity and it was always only going to be for like five days I think was what it was going to be about. It also had some of that exclusivity in that they didn't really talk about it or promote it very much. It's like if you're in the know, then you know it's coming. But A lot of people don't. And then you got the demand related scarcity because everyone started talking about how, yeah, it was supposed to be five days, but it's sold out. You can't get it even on day two. They don't have them at any of the Starbucks because they've run out of everything. And so then everyone's talking about how there's nothing left, so then everybody else wants to go get more. And then it's, you know, it turns.

Into this whole thing and it's, you know what? Like even the examples you're talking about too, like a lot of that with social media, which I feel like fuels so much of what we know now and see about scarcity, because word spreads really quickly. We're not even just relying on the marketer or the business to tell us something scarce. We can also see that through social media and posts in real time. So it definitely makes a huge thing. I love that you mentioned Costco because Costco and Trader Joe's. I feel like scarcity comes up with both of those. You don't know if the item's still going to be there. The one that you love that you buy all the time and there's. It becomes a treasure hunt mentality with both of those places especially I feel like Trader Joe's because it's always things are changing and this, this was here, now it's not there. And they're like huge on anything that's limited edition, you go in there in the fall, it's all things pumpkin. Everything's pumpkin in there.

The pumpkin pancake, the pancake mix and all this stuff. But that's. And the thing about Costco that I think as far as when I give it, I've given advice on in that episode and talking about, like, the reason that works really well is because it's scarce and they have a really good return policy. And so the idea of this might not be here if I come back in an hour, it might not be here tomorrow, I'm going to go ahead and buy it and if it's the wrong size, I can return it. Or if it's this or, you know, don't, if they don't like it, we can bring it back. And most people don't take advantage of those. But it does help you feel okay to take advantage of that feeling of.

Scarcity where you're like, I'm just going.

To get a couple more because, you know, you know, you could return it if you needed to. That helps people feel okay with, you know, Kind of going over the edge and allowing themselves to. To buy the thing.

It validates their decision and also. Yeah. Gives them a rational explanation of it, too. Well, it's okay because I can return it if I don't need it, so. Yeah, that's really important.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've already told you that I'm gonna force you to talk to me forever and ever into the future. But for today, we only have a few more minutes left. And is one other thing that I really. I had earmarked that I want to make sure that I ask you about, which is so in the behavioral sciences, in marketing. My background's in marketing, too. So we're definitely same wavelength on all that, like you. And there's a lot of talk about reducing friction and sludge in the field. Both great books. Roger Dooley did the forward for my first book. He's amazing. Sledge is such a great book. And it's all the talk about reducing friction and that you need to make it as easy as possible. And that is true in a lot of ways. There's a lot of unnecessary friction and sludge out there in the world. But there was one other quote that I had pulled out here in the book that you said, you know, if you have to make an extra effort to obtain the item, that item has just become more attractive, which goes, you know, so we're introducing some friction and sludge to be triggering some of the scarcity. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah. And so. And really, it's that whole mentality of playing hard to get. I mean, that can even occur in the business world. So doesn't have to be with dating and relationships. So what happens, you know, again, from the way that we know we're made up as human beings, if we're told we can't have something or it's not very simple for us to get, then we. As we talked about the hyper focus earlier, we start to really think about that we want it even more. It's in our nature that we want it. You know, I think of. Well, of course I have teenagers, but it's like telling a teenager no, like, that's just. That's the way you're going to get them to do something. Like, you can't do that. And that's the next thing, you know, they want to do it, but it's part of how we're made. And so there is that balance, though, you know, you do want to show that, okay, this isn't always going to be available or if it's a promotion, you're giving, you know, all the information about it, so you still want to make it possible. So I think of it as like goal achievement. You know, for us with goal achievement, an easy goal is not going to really appeal to us as much or it's not as big of a thing because like, oh, we could do that if it's a moderately difficult goal. Meaning, like, we can still get that product or we still can hire that service, but we might have to take advantage of it right now or we might have to go to another store to look for it. Well, then now we have more invested in it and we do want it more. And so that's really where that comes in when I talked about that. So I actually have a huge section that talks about playing hard to get. And again, in a, in a genuine way, you know, you don't want to just intentionally make roadblocks for our customers because that's not going to work either. And actually, and that's one thing I didn't mention overall, you know, as we think about all these different types of scarcity, be very careful about, you know, continuing to do the same thing over and over again. If you decide that like, oh, well, promotion, like a promotion or flash sales seems to work, you know, and I know about scarcity, I'm just going to keep doing those. Well, then you devalue your product or your services. So you want to mix it up and test and different things. I mean, I already told you, there's four different types of scarcity. So don't continue to do the same thing over and over again. Do things that, well, appeal to your customers, create excitement, create fun, create attraction to your company.

Yeah, and that's, I, I know you had the example of Hobby lobby with the 40, 40% off. It's like, and if you too often and they're too predictable, then people will only buy when you have a 40% off coupon and you know, to not go at any other time. There's also, I know for a while at least there was a joke with like Macy's that, you know, there's always another friends and family sale. The, you know, there's going to be one tomorrow, so if we miss this one, it doesn't matter. So you, you want to be making sure that you space them out. There's intentionality with whatever it is. And I just love that it, you know, because I think people jump too quickly to say it has to be a discount. Like where you're talking about the flash sale and it feels like it's scarce and it's going to sell out and we do the like discount it and get it out the door of a thing. But like when scarcity comes in, you know, people don't need a discount and often if it does, if it does have a big discount, then that feels like, well, a lot of people didn't want it. So.

Right.

You had to go get this thing now. So just having that understanding of value and how our brains look for things that we want, that discounting deeply isn't gonna, is gonna be going against a lot of these scarcity principles, right?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you know, there was just to really compliment what you just said, there was another example and actually put it in the book. And it was from an interview with Kevin Harrington. So he's one of the original sharks from Shark Tank, but he also was very involved in like QVC and the home shopping networks. And he would talk about, you know, some of the offerings they would do if they knew that this pot, pots and pan set did well. Well, you know, if you continue to offer it over again and it's not special and so they would add something additional to it like an extra lid, a lid. And now it was a limited edition pot and pan set, so you can do things like that because that's still a attractive and interesting to customers. And it's not a discount like you said, but now it's limited edition. They're not going to be able to get this everywhere and they might not be able to get it down the road, but now, hey, they get a new lid. Yeah, I'm still exciting.

Yep, we're living the dream. I got, I got that extra lid. My set is so much better than yours. It has 10 pieces.

I know. Don't you just wish you had this other lid as you display it? It?

Yeah, yeah. Funny. Well, I can say for everyone. Buy this book. Go read the book. There's link in the show notes. The power of scarcity. It's fantastic for every business. Whatever you're selling, whatever you're doing, you just really need to go check this out and I mean you better hurry because there might not be any left on Amazon if you, if you like.

Only four left left.

So Mindy, for everyone who is excited to learn more about you and to connect, you know, in addition to of course links in the show notes, where should they be going to do so?

Yeah, the best place, if you go to powerofscarcity.com I mean that will take you to my book page but also like you can see all additional content there. My information and just would be a really great way to connect.

Perfect.

Well we will definitely link to powerofscarcity.com in the show notes and thank you again so much for joining me. It was fascinating and very fun to talk with you today.

Thank you. It was great.

Thank you again to Dr. Mindy Weinstein for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, I am still in awe of all the different approaches and applications of scarcity Mindy has pulled together in this amazingly practical and useful book. There is so much goodness in there. Just know that if you're wanting to sell anything, even if you aren't in sales, you will get value from the power of scarcity, leveraging urgency and demand to influence customer decisions. It's a fascinating and fun read that I highly, highly recommend. Can you tell I love this book? Perhaps it's because I'm working on my own third book, Spoiler Alert, which is on pricing strategy and I'm so delighted to have found this book and to have connected with Mindy at the perfect time. And it's also just because it's awesome or both.

Thanks again to Brian Ahern for the.

Connection and to Bob Cialdini for being so generous with his time to have spurred Mindy's love of scarcity. It's amazing how things work out. You never know who you're influencing and what value each moment could have have on the world. So, using some advice from Nick Epley's episode from a couple of weeks ago, have a conversation and be generous with your time. Even a few thoughtful minutes could change someone, including you, for the better. As we close out the show, don't forget about those show notes, which include links to all those related past episodes and books, including the Power of Scarcity and Ways to Connect with Mindy and more. You'll be glad you did. It's all waiting for you in the app you're listening to and@the brainybusiness.com 271. And thank you again to Dr. Mindy Weinstein for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me Tuesday for another Brainy episode of the Brainy Business Podcast. It's going to be a lot of fun. You won't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me and remember to be thoughtful.

Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business Podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.