367. Breaking Free: The Entrepreneurial Journey with Amy Porterfield

Welcome to episode 367 of the Brainy Business Understanding the Psychology of why People Buy. In today's episode, I'm so beyond excited to introduce you to Amy Porterfield, author of Two Weeks Notice and host of the Online Marketing Made Easy podcast.

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Let's get started.

You are listening to the Brainy Business Podcast where we dig into the psychology of why people buy and help you incorporate behavioral economics into your business, making it more brain friendly. Now, here's your host, Melina Palmer.

Hello. Hello everyone. My name is Melina Palmer and I want to welcome you to the Brainy Business Podcast. In today's conversation, I am joined by Amy Porterfield. If you're on the marketing side of things, you have very likely heard of.

Amy, especially if you've ever looked into.

Launching an online course and creating a podcast or building an email list. I won't get too over the top here, but let me just say that this episode is a huge personal milestone for me. I'm a massive fan of Amy's work, her podcast and her approach.

I'll talk about this a bit in.

Our chat, but her podcast was one of the few I listened to before starting the Brainy Business, which helped me to decide what I wanted this show and my business model to be. Her generosity and the use of reciprocity helped me feel good about an approach with lots of freebies. We also talk about the way she uses scarcity and loss aversion to sell her courses without having to do a lot of rework since they're only available for a limited time each year. If you aren't yet familiar with Amy, you are in for a treat as she will share. Before she went out on her own, she worked for Tony Robbins. She now has an 8ft figure business where she has taught over 50,000 students around the world to grow their own businesses using courses and email list building. Her book Two Weeks Notice, which came out last year, was a New York Times bestseller. Which isn't a surprise since her amazing podcast Online Marketing Made Easy has over 58 million downloads. She is a force and was such a delight to talk to. If you enjoy this even half as much as I did, I know you're.

Going to love it. Really quickly.

Before we get into the conversation, I want to be sure you know that there are links in the show, notes for everything, including related past episodes, links to articles and books including Two Weeks Notice and so much more. It's all within the app you're listening to and at the brainy business.com 367 now let's jump right in. Amy Porterfield, welcome to the Brainy Business podcast.

Well, thanks so much for having me. I've been nervous because this podcast is legit. I'm like, I hope I can bring it, but I'm really excited about it.

You are so kind. I too have been nervous. I know I mentioned to you in our little pre chat that I've been a big fan of yours forever and so the world knows there was one podcast that I really like dialed in on there. So a particular podcast host who I know who recommended I do a podcast and then when I was researching five and a half years ago of like how to podcast yours was really the main podcast that I listened to to give me some examples and great guidelines for what I wanted to do with the brainy business. So it's a very full so circle moment for me to have you here.

So cool. I love hearing that. Well, I'm so glad you started this podcast because it does good in the world so well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, as I know I'm going to have already have gushed about you in the intro that will be recorded later. But for everyone who doesn't yet know you and the work that you do, can you share a little bit about your background?

Yes. I always say I'm an ex corporate girl turned accidental entrepreneur about 14 years ago. And before I became an entrepreneur and started building my online business, I worked for peak performance coach Tony Robbins. So for about almost seven years I got to work on the content that Tony did on stage. So Unleash the Power within and Date with Destiny. If you know Tony, you know those events. And I got to travel the world and do really cool things and I loved it. But I got that entrepreneurial bug. I really wanted to be my own boss. I wanted to work when I wanted, where I wanted, how I wanted. And so I finally got the courage. It took me about a year, but I decided I'm going to give myself a year Runway and go out on my own, which I did. And it was really rocky. My first two years were a disaster. I would not say they were a huge success at all. And I struggled. But after those first two years, I kind of got my footing and now we're 14 years in. And when people ask me what I do, I often say that I help people build businesses online. But I do that specifically through helping people take their knowledge and their know how and their skill set and turning that into a profitable digital course that they can launch over and over and over. Again, so that's where my big focus is. I hope you grow an email list and grow a brand and create your digital course. But this year I wrote a book called Two Weeks Notice, which is all about how to figure out, you know, what you want to do and how to get plan together to leave your job and start an online business and get the ball rolling. So that's what my book's all about.

Oh, yeah. And I know that's like a scary time. Having left a corporate job to start a company where I'd been doing what I would say, I guess the side hustle, you know, doing some freelance for a while before had the opportunity to, to jump. I was in a really fortunate situation that my now husband, you know, we were able to move to another area and the like, moving outside of downtown Seattle allowed for me to leave my job in a way that was like so little I needed to make to make up the difference. Whereas, like, not working at all, you know, and being able to focus on my master's program, I only had to make like 250amonth to equal what where we were so good. And so it was like, I pretty sure I can do that, right? That's doable. So I was very fortunate. And for a lot of people, that is not the case. And I believe that their worst nightmare would be to have two years that don't go great. So, so true. So what do you have to share with them about the, you know, the upsides or, you know, sticking to it or, you know, how to make that decision to, to jump?

You know, I talk to a lot of people who want to leave their 9 to 5 job, but I like to make a caveat to those that are listening, that want to stay in their 9 to 5 job and they like what they do, then I'm going to support that all day long. It only comes down to are you happy with where you're at, and if you're not and you have this desire on your heart to be your own boss and do your own thing, then I always tell my students the worst day as an entrepreneur, the worst day of building your business and nothing's going right and everything's a fire is still better than your best day in your 9 to 5 job if you didn't want to be there. And so there's so much freedom in entrepreneurship, but you don't feel that freedom right away. And I, I don't talk about this enough, but I should. In the first few years, you're saying yes to everything because you don't know what you like and what you don't like and what direction you want to go. You. You also have fomo. You're afraid to miss out on anything in case that's that one thing that's going to move you forward. Which, newsflash. There's never just one thing that does that, but we think there is in the very beginning. And also this idea that you really do get to call the shots and you get to create a business and a life by your own design. And that to me, that freedom is everything. Some of my students who have gone out on their own just making a hundred thousand dollars a year is the most wonderful, magical thing because they don't have a boss and they're doing it on their terms. Some of my students want to make millions of dollars. It's again, on your terms. And so I think the biggest argument for let's do this is that I have many students who never in their wildest dreams did they think they could figure this out, and they did. So I always say, if they can do it, if I did it, you can do it too. It's just finding the courage. You know, the subtitle of my book is find the courage to quit your job, not find the confidence. Confidence is when you have a proven track record. Courage is. I've never done this before, but I'm going to take a leap of faith and know one way or another, I'm going to land on my feet. And so finding the courage is everything.

Yeah, definitely. And I think with that, too, is like, you're saying that balance of saying yes to everything. Actually, in my first full year of entrepreneurship, I called it my year of yes, which was like, I'm going to take the scraps. Everybody has things I wouldn't normally do. I don't care what the rate is, like, all of it. Just like, take it all, and then I can very quickly identify. I hate that, and I never want to do that again. Definitely didn't charge enough for that thing or, you know, find what I like when those opportunities are out there. And then you can more confidently start to say no to. To a lot of things. But finding that the niche, the area of focus often. And I love that you talk about this in the book. You know, the thing you think it's going to be, I don't want to say is never, because there's probably someone out there who is doing exactly what they thought they were going to do when they started their business.

But.

But I think they're the Only one, right?

Yeah, I agree, it is rare. You know, when I left my corporate job, one thing I worked on at Tony Robbins was creating digital programs. So I knew I wanted to create digital programs. So that is one thing I knew. And now I do it and teach people. I never knew I would teach people how to do it, but I knew that's what I wanted my business model to be. But for two years that was not my business model. So I always, and I say this in the book, just do something to get started. It's not your end all, be all. You're so right about that. What you start with is not what you will end up with. And the first few years of your business will look dramatically different than let's say year 14, which is where I'm at now. And so just letting it be the fact that it's not going to be your end all, be all allows you to experiment. So when I started out, I did social media for small businesses. I wasn't that great at it, for the record, I had some clients that I worked with, I coached and consulted and did social media for them. And that's how my business looked for two years. And then what happened was I knew I wanted to create digital courses but had no idea how to do them. So I wasn't ready for that. And two years into building this business, I thought, I hate this. I hate the business I started. And I started to think, I'm going to have to go back to a job like this. Did not work. I am not cut out for this and I hate having all these clients. I'm not really good with boundaries, unfortunately, I'm a people pleaser. And so I said yes to everything they wanted and then I couldn't deliver and now they're frustrated. So it wasn't a great business model for me. I tell my students, if you love one on one work, do it. But I did not enjoy it. So about two years in, I kind of burned it all down. I fired my clients. I use air quotes, but that's what it felt like, like, let go of all my clients, create started creating my digital courses. And I did a little of that in the first two years and I didn't do well. But then I got really serious about it and I'm like, let's figure this out. So allow yourself to have a first year or two of experimenting and probably just getting by. But once you kind of lock into something that feels right and you'll know, then you double down. I have this, this secret sauce in My business. Find something that you're doing well or just a little bit well and you could expand on that. Go all in when you're ready. Meaning. The reason I have a multimillion dollar business today is I have very few products. I don't have a lot of balls in the air, a lot of bells and whistles. I have very few offers, but I do them well and I go all in. And so that allows me to grow and scale this business. I think where entrepreneurs, especially new entrepreneurs get started, stuck. They tried to do so many things at once and they also have tons of open loops. They tried this but not fully. So that didn't really work. Now I'm over here, now I'm over there. I'm like, what you don't. No one even knows what you're known for. So it's less is more is my motto.

Yeah, for sure. There's a concept. So I'll link to the episode on. It's called Bike Shedding, which is also so I believe.

Now I'm trying to remember because it's.

Been a few weeks since I was reading your book, but I think you talked about Parkinson's love triviality maybe once. Yeah. Okay. So this is Bike Shedding. So it's in the case of the things that seem super important in the moment and they're really, really not and we can productively procrastinate on them for a really long time. So I'll link to the episode in the show notes for everybody. But things like having the perfect website, feeling like you have to decide about the very specific number of your price of being the ending in a five, seven, nine or a zero. Like these little things that feel like the most important thing. And until I do this, I can't possibly do the other thing. I can't launch my website and or write the content until I've looked through all 875,000 templates that exist.

So true.

But it's not. It's a waste of time in a lot of cases and it's a way that your brain is keeping you stuck in that status quo. So it's. We're wired to do this and having some good like lines in the sand from someone who's been there to say, don't do that. I love that in your book you talk about like, don't worry about your website, essentially. And like these are I think the four pages that matter. Can you dive in a bit on that?

Yeah. So you're so right. We think that so much matters. Like one of the don'ts I talk about in the book is do not spend time on a business card. If for some reason it's something that we all think we need and want. Like when I go to that conference, I'm going to need to give out business cards. Who even keeps a business card anymore? But for some reason it's a big thing. But website, another big thing. And so what I've noticed is that my students will spend so much money and so much time, like you said, going through all the templates. And I see that as a way to stay safe. Because if you're trying to make a decision but you haven't made it yet, you're still safe. You didn't choose wrong, you didn't do anything that didn't work yet. But if you stay in that I need to make a decision but you don't, you're staying safe. And what I learned early on is what is keeping you safe is keeping you stuck. You're never going to leave that 9 to 5 job because you're not making any decisions. Or when you are on your own, you're spending five weeks choosing a template for your website so you're never moving forward. And you have to, you don't have to get in the game. And so what's keeping you safe is keeping you stuck. So we have to be really careful and look at what's keeping us safe. And like you said, some of those decisions. So your website, when you think about websites, you often look at other websites you love and you don't realize that they probably spent a hundred thousand dollars on that website. If it's a big company or it's someone who's been in business for a long time, so they've worked it out, it's evolved over the years, but you think you need to start where their 10 years are in and so be careful. I always say that to my students. Don't judge your first year of business to someone's 14th year of business. You got to be really careful of that. It's not an even place playing field. So to get that about page on your website, that's important, you want that about page because that's one of the most visited pages on your website. People want to hear about you. And the more you can write that in a fun, casual way, depending on what your offer is, the better. But now AI, oh my gosh. If we had AI when we started our businesses, holy cow, like just. I never use AI to like spit out something and then I use it. I'm Always massaging it, making it better. But I'll never have to look at a blank Google Doc again. So that about page is a really big deal. But also creating weekly original content. So a blog, a podcast, a video show, having a place on your website where you are creating weekly original content, really important. And I know that it's a lot of work. I know that starting a podcast, as you know, is a lot of work, or a blog or a video show. But that is how people get to know you. That's how you build a brand where every single week they see a new podcast from you and they start to expect it and you start to become a trusted source. I think a lot of my students make the mistake of worrying about everything that doesn't matter, but not being consistent about the things that do matter. And what matters is weekly original content every single week, rain or shine. Posting on social media on a regular basis. Listen, I'd love not to post on social. I am not a big fan of social media, but I'm a big fan of serving my students and growing my business. And I can't do it without social. It's just an. I hate to say it, but it feels like a necessary evil sometimes. But you could definitely use it for good. And then the third thing is growing an email list. So this is something that I definitely did not do in the beginning. And so getting names and emails that you are communicating with on a regular basis changes the game. And it's where most of us mess up in the beginning. We. We put everything else as a priority. But that. But if you create a way for people to sign up for your newsletter or for a lead magnet like a free freebie, a guide, a cheat sheet, a checklist, growing that email list from day one is the best thing you could do. I know I got a little bit off track of the website, but I can't help. But that email list is important and your website will help you do it.

For sure. For sure. Well, and that I was gonna. It's part of the conversation. My business and advice I always give to people is very much built on the concept of reciprocity. That when people give to us, we as a species feel inclined to give back. Right. There's the little bit. And you want to give something back. And I'm all about giving, generously, giving often, whether that can be doing the shouting out people's businesses on social media, doing shout outs in the episode of people give you a rating or a review, giving the freebie. I do so many freebies the, the audience knows there are so, so many of them. Love that. And I know that you too are a big advocate of this. So do you want to share a little bit about the importance of those freebies and giving away your best stuff for free?

Yes. Okay, so first of all, let's talk about the power of an E. Bell list. Social media is amazing. And again, you have to use it. I say it's amazing, meaning it's powerful and it can definitely help grow your business. But when you put all your eggs in one basket, and I see this as the critical mistake of most people starting out, whether it's a side hustle or a full time thing, they go all in with, let's say, Instagram. And they'll say to me, amy, I have a hundred thousand people on Instagram. And I'll tell them, okay, great, I love it. How many people are on your email list? Oh, I haven't really started an email list yet. And yes, exactly. I'll get to that later. And then I always say, you are building your business on rented land. If that algorithm changes, if Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk decides I'm going to change something, boom. How you were doing business changes overnight. Years ago, for us that have been in business for a long time, Facebook used to work really well for many of us, Free Facebook. And then all of a sudden, it literally happened overnight. It became pay to play. You're not running ads. Facebook's not working for you at the level it used to. Right?

And a lot of them, right?

Yeah, yeah. Spending a lot of money on ads. And that was scary to many people. Luckily, I was already using ads and teaching it. But if I hadn't, and I saw a lot of my peers weren't they, that freaked them out. So we're going to use social media, but our priority is going to be to grow the email list. Because when you have an email list, you control that asset. It is yours. And if you do it right and you nurture your audience with amazing value on a regular basis, your email is the email they want to open up. Because I know what people are thinking right now, Amy. I don't even like email. I don't like to open up my emails. I don't even check email. Email's dead. And then I'll say, okay, but you know that one store that you really love when an email comes in from them? Oh, well, I do open that one.

Right.

It's. You have to be that person. And so finding out what your audience likes and Wants and experimenting with subject lines is all part of the deal. But when you have an email list, you will always be able to make money. Men tell you a quick story about, I don't know, two years ago there was this day and somewhere in the middle of the year where Facebook and Instagram went down. Both of them went down. Now we know they're connected, obviously, but both of them went down. You went to the website and it looked really weird and nothing worked. So on that morning, I just so happened to send out an email to a small portion of my list telling them about an offer that I've had for years. But this segment didn't have the offer yet. So I just happened to send an email saying, don't forget, I've got this program to help you. X, Y, Z. And by the end of that evening, we had made over $17,000 with this email. And it was on a day that social media was down where other people, if they relied on social media, they were making zero dollars. And so it reminded me how I control how my business is ran. And so if you want confidence in your business, you need an email list. And so now that we know how incredibly valuable an email list is and how you cannot rely just on social media, social media is a great tool to get people on your email list. Let's talk about how you get people on your email list. You mentioned the best way to do it, freebies. And I love that you do a lot of them. And so a cheat sheet, a checklist, a guide. More advanced would be a quiz or a three day challenge or a mini course that they get for free. But whatever it is, here's the ticket. You have to talk about it regularly. It is not enough to put a link in bio and hope people find it, or it's not even enough to put it on your website. You have to totally talk about it on a regular basis. So that means an Instagram reel where you're mentioning it and they can go and find the link and click. Or on lives that you do at the end. Hey, by the way, before you go, you have gotten my freebie about xyz, right? And you get scared. People get scared to mention it a bunch because they think, well, people have already heard about it marketing 101. They need to hear like 10 times before they ever even take action. So you're mentioning it on your podcast or in your blog. You are doing reels about it. You're mentioning as call to action. When you get interviewed by someone else, you could ask, hey, before we get inter. Do the interview, can I mention a freebie at the end? Do that. And so there's so many different ways to put it out there. But my point is, every single week, you've got to be talking about your freebies. One or multiple, whatever you want. People aren't going to go look for them. You have to tell them about these freebies, and that's how you grow your email list.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I. I have a funny story from a friend of mine who has millions and millions of downloads of his podcast. And he also has, I don't know how many hundred, over a hundred thousand people follow him on LinkedIn and that he did a post on his LinkedIn that was asking like, have you heard of the XYZ podcast? And less than half of the people who follow him said yes.

Less than half.

Yeah. To which he was like, how do you even know who I am? Who are you? How are you here?

Wow, that's wild.

Right? And so the thing that he think. And his podcast is daily. And not just five days a week, but like over the weekend, daily bananas. I can't. I can't never. Yeah, I. I added a second episode a week last year, and that is like a whole haul.

It's a lot of work. I did the same. It's a lot of work.

And so, like, he, you know, we talked about it, that it's like you want a lesson in thinking that where you feel like podcast, podcast. I'm just talking about it all the time. And like, half the people haven't even heard that. He. He has. That we think that people know all these things about us, but they definitely. They don't always.

Yeah, I love that story. It's such a great example. We just assume. And I have a good friend, Stu McLaren, who always says, you think you're repeating yourself and if. If you're not uncomfortable about how many times you've talked about it, you're not talking about it enough. And I've been in those situations where I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've told this story five times. Most people have no clue. We think people are watching everything we do. They are not. I wanted to, but they're not.

Right. So the other thing with this. And actually, I think this really layers into another thing I was going to talk to you about is like, I. From, you know, history and marketing, where people will want to do. It's like, okay, we did the campaign and it was great. So, like, scrap that. What's the new thing? What's what's the new one we're going to do? Like, but we did that.

People know.

And I'll tell them, like, okay, we have a familiarity bias. And so. And things that are familiar ring more true. We like them more. We even. And someone may not have done the thing that you thought they did, but they were interested. Like, if it ain't broke, you know, keep ringing the bell.

You are speaking my language. And no one ever asked me this question because I. I just love that you did it. It's my favorite topic.

Yay.

The reason I have been successful in my business, I. I told you my secret sauce. But to. To build off of that. So I create a product, and if it does okay, I will keep going till it does really well. And then when it does really well, I will keep going until it doesn't. So I'll keep working on it always. But I launched the same thing over and over and over again. So here's an example. In 2019, I had two different programs. One, how to do a webinar, one how to do a digital course. And I was having issues because people would create the course and say, well, how do I market it? And I'd be like, well, you have to buy my other program. Or someone would learn how to do webinars, and they'd be like, but I have nothing to sell. So it was kind of a weird fit. So I decided, all right, beginning in 2019, I'm going to redo this whole thing, strip it down, build it back up. But it's one product now. It's called Digital Course Academy. I have launched Digital Course Academy over and over and over again since 2019. So in 2019, I launched it twice. 2020, one, big, huge launch. 21, I did twice again. 22, I did one. 23, I did one. So think about the fact that I've been launching it since 2019. 2023, which was a month ago when I launched it. Biggest launch yet. Like, huge compared to the year before. This product has been out since 2019. So how do I do that? Well, number one, when you launch the same thing over and over again every year, I make my marketing better and my program better because I become a better marketer and business owner. So every year it gets better. So I am building my brand through that. Also, when people go through the program, they start telling other people about it, which helps year after year. Now it becomes a known name. You might not have ever taken Digital Course Academy, but there's a good chance if you're in my world at all. You might have heard about it. But in addition to that, every single year, I grow my email list. I have this motto, double your email list, double your revenue. So I'm always looking at finding new people to come into my world. And because I get better and better at marketing it, my message is really strong. And the, the program grows. And so I never start. I haven't started from scratch since 2019. And one of the things I learned from Tony Robbins is the more often you start from scratch, you are going to slow down your growth in anything that you do. So the entrepreneurs that are really struggling to build their business, it's likely because they keep starting over and starting new, where I just get better. And I think that's, that's the secret right there. So I'm all about launching and relaunching and relaunching.

Yes, well, and I know that that is hard for people, so I'm going to have us dig in on this a little bit more. One of the things I think you also do really well is the loss, aversion, scarcity, bundling of. So same thing, right. Where it feels like I need to be available all the time because, like, somebody might want it now, and I'm not doing it now, and what will I do versus saying, like, it's open for two weeks and that's when it is, and then it's gone. And it might come back next year, but you got to do it if you want to do it and you're going to jump in, or we're talking about something else and like, we know as buyers that, that consciously or not that that works for us, but when it's time to, like, write the message and frame it for that scarcity, I know this. And putting the time pressure with the clock, and I can tell all the science of why that works.

We'll link to episodes in the show notes, right?

Yeah. But when it comes time to actually, like, write it, we feel like we're going to hate it. And I know that people get really nervous about it. So what advice do you have for people to jump in?

Okay. Are they nervous? I think I'm, I'm, I'm tracking with you. But are they nervous? Because they're like, if I only offer it for this period of time, what about all the other times that they need it and they can't get it? Is that what they're nervous about?

Yeah, that's a big piece for people. I think it's another one of the, like, keeping ourselves stuck Right. And so if you're not ha. The idea of putting in that scarcity language, I know for people, they're worried people are going to think they're being really pushy or it feels over the top and that someone's gonna not like me because I said this thing, and I don't want them to leave. And what if they jump off the list or, you know, you get really, like, all the what ifs come in.

Okay, I'm gonna address all that. So the first thing is, when you think about it from a business perspective, sometimes it comes up like, Amy, if I have this course or offer and I only offer it for two weeks, then I need to make money throughout the year. What am I doing when I'm not launching? So I just want to take that one off the table. Number one, I love the idea of having one offer in your business. That's evergreen morning, noon, and night. Someone could buy this thing. Like, I have a 500 offer. You can buy it at any time. I've got a webinar that runs automatic. All that good stuff. So I make money every day in the business. And then in addition to that, digital course Academy is only available for 10 days in September, once a year, essentially, that's what it is right now. And for those that want to have something like that, here's what I want to make an argument for it. When there's scarcity, people pay more attention. When they know, wait a second, she's saying that in two weeks, this is no longer going to be available. Their antennas go up and they're paying more attention to that, versus, oh, I'll get to it later. She's always offering it. So there's this heightened level of understanding, like, I better pay attention here now. Some people feel slimy to do urgency. They feel like that's not really fair. They need more time to make a decision. I don't believe that. I know that if I want to find a solution for something, I love when someone says, I've got your solution, but you need to make a decision. It gets me off the fence and into the game. Or it helps me say, you know what? This isn't for me. I'm not going to do it. I like that nudge, that encouragement from people I trust. And so I'm the person they trust, and I'm telling them, it is decision time, my friend. Because remember what I said, you're not making a decision. You're staying safe, and you're staying stuck. So I believe this is my way of helping Them move forward. But you notice if you're listening or watching this, I believe this to my core. So you have to get to a place that you know this is the right decision for how I'm marketing this because I want to help people get results now. And the human brain will sit on that to keep them safe for as long as they can. So that's one thing you have to believe that the urgency is helping them get into the game. So that's a, that's a big one. And also I really do believe that when you create this urgency, the scarcity, that the countdown timer, all of that, the people that are very much meant to buy and they're paying attention, they're there. And the people that aren't going to take it seriously, they've already checked out. And that is a really good thing. So you tend to attract the go getters that are like, okay, I'm in, let's go, I'm ready. And I love that energy for a course or an offer or anything like that. But did I miss anything? Because you're really more of an expert. I mean, you have a book book around this topic, pricing and all that goes along with it. So what did I miss? Because this is an important topic.

Oh, it's so kind, thank you. Yeah, so I'll just talk a little bit about that. What happens with the urgency piece right here with the time pressure, our brains, we tend to be. So for one, like you said, it is that coming out of the bike shedding problem of feeling like, oh, I have all the time in the world and I can be thinking it. Look, you have these big dreams of all you're going to be able to do. Optimism bias comes in here as well and it feels like fun. We're getting little hits of dopamine with the idea of just thinking about what it could be, all the dreams that are there and having that piece of urgency. So that time pressure makes it so that we go from being risk averse to being more loss averse. Uh, it's like a little flip of the switch that happens.

Oh, that's good. I get that. Okay.

Yeah. So when you have all the time, it's like, but I don't know, maybe this or what if that and you can just like sit on all of it for a long time. But when the countdown happens, I love to give the example of like Ticketmaster when you're going to buy the tickets for the show and you know, has it ever taken you more than 10 or 15 minutes to get your Credit card and type in the number. No, you know your address. Right. It'll be okay. But when the thing is clicking, like taking down, just, oh, like bubbling, you're gonna drop.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

They're gonna go away. Right. And so we, we feel that. And it is something that makes you want to jump. You pay attention in a different way. We start to focus. And I think it is really important, you know, layering in with the stuff about a really great email list and a newsletter that's not the. Nobody needs another newsletter that they're going to just delete. Right. But something that is an interesting tip or a fun little tidbit or the weekly anecdote. I know you talked about how you don't love social media and I'll say, I love your Instagram and I'm sure that you get this feedback all the time and it's not just because of Scout, but.

But he does have a big part of it, right?

Yeah. Right. But I mean, it's. It's light and it's fun and it resonates with either where I am now or where I've been or where I aspire to be. It's very relatable and, like, I can just see me and people like me in a lot of the posts you do and in your emails, the language of them. Even if I'm not ready to buy the thing, I know it's there and I enjoy it. And most of your content is just nice and good to experience and great tips of, you know, how why health matters and. And whatnot for my business and how it's going to make me more productive and all these things. Right. And then when you do have something to sell, it's been. There's just been so much good that when the offer comes, it's not just if you were having a scarce thing every day, that's kind of going to go away. That's exhausting. And people are going to opt out.

Yes, exactly. So it's not something you don't want to create scarcity every day, every single month to your audience, but when it happens a few times a year, and here's the thing, you've got to stick with it. So you can't break the rule and say, well, I said it was going to go away in two weeks, but I'm going to keep it open for a little bit longer. No one's going to trust you after that.

Right.

So my audience knows if I say the offer goes away this day, it absolutely has gone away. That day. And yes, I understand that it's hard, but here's, here's something that's really valuable. I don't know why. Well, you would probably know more than I would, but I know people wait till the last minute to make these decisions. And it is incredible how many sales come in the last hour of a two week promotion. Like I used to when I marketed a little bit different, I'd get 50% of my sales on that last like two hours. Now we don't get that extreme, but that, that happens. So the urgency, especially near the end, if you do this right, it really does pay off. And here's a little secret. When you're launching anything, if you're using email marketing, if you're not, you're leaving tons of money on the table. But, but if you're using email marketing, get aggressive with your email cadence near the end. So I used to send one email on the final day and then someone encouraged me to send two emails on the final day and that made a huge difference. And then someone said three. And I'm like, what? That is too much. Everyone's going to unsubscribe. And the guy who told me that, he's like, well, send it to people that have been opening up your emails but haven't taken action yet. And so I did that. Boom. I saw a bigger end of launch day. And so I'm always about getting uncomfortable and kind of pushing the envelope a little bit to see if I could stretch myself. As long as it's in integrity and I feel like I'm doing good, I will get in that uncomfortable zone and it always pays off.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's like reframing our own mental approach to it. Right? So we're thinking of like, I've already said, like, they're gonna think I'm being pushy, they're gonna think I'm annoying. And if we think about it on the other people are busy, stuff's happening, they're running a business, they've got kids, they've got stuff. Like things are happening for them and how devastated would they be if they missed it and it's not coming around for a year? And you could have. So you mentioned you said the word nudge. And nudging is a really big base in behavioral science. And my favorite aspect of nudges, the E and the G, are to expect error and give fear feedback. So we tend to see. It's like, I bet they're going to miss it, but I'll just wait and see. I Bet they're gonna go. Or like, I bet people may forget because they're busy. So I'm gonna send one more reminder email an hour before this is gonna close to say, hey, like, just in case, I bet you were interested and I don't want you to miss out. And so if you frame it in that way, it can help you to get over that hurdle and think about how you can help someone instead of then having them feel bad. And then when you do, stick to the firm, to the line and say, dude, I sent three emails that day, right?

Like, come on. And I'm going to promise you this. If you do this, if you actually get out of your comfort zone and you send more emails than you're comfortable with, you will get an email or two that will say, you are sending way too many emails. Someone is going to pop up in your inbox saying you're going to screw up your business. Why are you doing this? This is way too aggressive. I'm unsubscribing. And what I don't write back, but what I want to write back is, this is not an airport. You do not need to declare your departure. Just go. And two, they would have never bought. They just wouldn't have never bought. So wish them well. I remember those emails really bothered me and I asked myself, am I doing this wrong? Am I too aggressive? And then I'm like, wait a second, I just sent out 50,000 emails and two people wrote back. So sure, more people might have thought it, but I do not care anymore. I just know who my audience is and who my audience is not, right?

And helping people to self select. And when you are really clear, there's not just this whole mishmash of all the things, but like you said, you're really focused on if I need a digital course, if I need to grow my email list, I'm going to Amy.

There's no question, right? I know where to go.

Exactly. That's what I love. Like, I'm your girl for this, this. And if, if you like it, I'm here. And if you don't, please don't stick around. And so I love self select. That is such a great way to look at it.

Awesome. Well, I can't believe I knew I was going to be able to talk to you all day. I was telling my husband, I was like, I don't even have. I know all the things and I have no plan. I'm just jumping in. Which is not.

This has been a really fun conversation. And knowing that like you know the other side of why people do things and their behavior and their habits. I'm just like, oh, this is going to be a fun conversation. So I loved it.

Awesome. Well, I did as well. For everyone who I know now is so excited to learn more about you and to connect, follow you on Instagram.

Right.

Where. Where should they go to do all these things?

Things?

So I'm at Amy Porterfield on Instagram, and as much as I say I don't love social media, I use it every day and I just found a way to make it work for me so you won't see me doing silly dances most days or doing some of the hot trends, but it works. And so you can check out Instagram and then I have a podcast called Online Marketing Made Easy. So if you love this and you want some more online strategies, then come on over. But thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.

Oh, of course. Thank you for joining me. It was delightful to chat with you and good luck on the next course launch or whatever's coming. I know it'll be amazing.

Thank you so much, friend.

Thank you again to Amy Porterfield for joining me on the show today. What got your brain buzzing in today's conversation? For me, as I shared at the beginning of the episode, and I'm sure it was pretty clear continually throughout the conversation, I loved absolutely everything about chatting with Amy today. I love every episode and guest on the show, and this one is a really big full circle moment for me. It's such an honor that she joined me and I hope you learned a lot from her. I know that while we all understand scarcity and why it works and that we should use it in our businesses, it can be really hard for people to implement, myself included. We get way into our own heads and can talk ourselves out of it.

We worry about what people will say.

And those sales we may miss out on. But as Amy has shown, you can have an amazing business by focusing on a few things, doing them really well, and having them only available at limited times. And the other great thing is that you don't have to be constantly reinventing and creating new stuff. Familiarity bias is real. People love what they know and it's great to be known for something. When people think of Amy, they think of online courses, of creating an email list. If someone says they are interested in those things, I know exactly where to send them because she's so focused on that and has really mastered that space. What about you? Is your business focused enough? Where can you simplify and where can you leverage some loss aversion and scarcity. And of course, don't forget to be generous and use that reciprocity as well. This is a powerful mix that can help you to grow your business in amazing ways. Whatever you decide to use, come share it with us on social media. You'll find me as the Brainy Biz pretty much everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn. And of course, follow Amy Porterfield on Instagram and on LinkedIn links for all that in the show notes along with links to all the related past episodes and books, including two weeks notice and ways to learn more about Amy, her work and her podcast.

You'll be glad you did.

It's all waiting for you in the app you're listening to and atthebrainybusiness.com 367 and thank you again to Amy Porterfield for joining me on the show today. It was a delight to chat with and learn from you. Join me Tuesday for another brain episode of the Brainy Business podcast. It's going to be a lot of fun. You don't want to miss it. Until then, thanks again for listening and learning with me, and remember to be thoughtful.

Thank you for listening to the Brainy Business podcast. Molina offers virtual strategy sessions, workshops and other services to help businesses be more more brain friendly. For more free resources, visit thebrainybusiness.com.