#021: Email Newsletters: A Steady and Lucrative Writing Opportunity

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing.

Podcast, helping you propel your writing business.

To a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Well, hello everyone and thanks for joining me for episode 21 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. I am your host, Ed Gandia, and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. As a reminder, you can find detailed show notes of this episode by going to b2b launcher.com episode 21 the number 21. So if you're swimming or playing ping pong or hand gliding or anywhere where you just can't take notes right now, don't worry, these are very detailed show notes that you can reference later at your convenience. So most freelance writers I talk to are very passionate about never wanting to go back to a regular job if they had a regular job at one point. But many of them do miss the steady paycheck of a regular job. And in fact, that's usually one of the only things, if not the only thing, that they miss about traditional employment. And that begs the question, how can you add more predictability to your freelance income? So what if you could have the income predictability of a regular day job but still have the freedom and all the great things that come with a freelance writing business? Well, I'm going to be showing you several ways that you can do that over the next few months. I'm going to have several podcasts that address this issue because this is not the kind of thing that you can solve with just one new strategy. But let's get started on that discussion by addressing one potential solution to this income variability dilemma, which is adding more projects that have kind of a steadier demand, that are more regular in nature and they can bring you more steady income. And one of the projects that, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of that is newsletters. Newsletters. Writing and producing newsletters for clients. Email newsletters, specifically. My colleague Michael Katz has made a very good living over the last 13 years writing and producing and managing email newsletters for clients. And I wanted to get all the information I could from him. So I interviewed him recently, picked his brain and we had a really lively discussion. Very interesting information packed. And that's what I'm bringing you this week. In this interview, what you're going to learn is what is this business all about? So what does this type of service entail? What can you charge and how can you lock yourself in with Clients who can actually pay you anywhere from $700 to $2,000 or even more every month for writing, producing, and managing their email newsletters. So let's get right to it, because we got a lot to cover, and I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. All right, so I'm sitting here with Michael Katz, chief penguin likable expert, and all that good stuff. Welcome, Michael.

Great to be here.

First of all, you got to tell me about the whole penguin thing. I never asked you this before, but what's the story? Why Blue Penguin? How did that come about?

I consider it a happy accident. And the accident part is I started my business in 2000 when the whole dot com thing was happening. And so I was going to name my company michael katz.com because my focus was going to be on helping companies get on the web. And I remember I left my job and I decided to take a month off and kind of take a little time off. And I was mocking up a business card for myself in between my email address and the name of the company. My name was on the card like eight times. And even I was sick of it by the time I looked at it. I thought, that's no good. And it was a little too about me. I briefly toyed with giving it some generic marketing name like Strategic Marketing Solutions. And this was an insight that was new to me. Having worked in a company my entire adult life, I can do whatever I want. And I really had this idea one day, like, oh, I'm not restricted by anything. And so I literally thought, well, I really like penguins. And I needed some modifier. I considered calling it Flying Penguin, Bald Penguin because I'm bald. You know, I like blue. And there you go. And I named it Development, Blue Penguin Development, because I didn't know at the time that it would be a real marketing thing necessarily that I was doing. So development seemed generic enough. So that's the accident part. The happy part is that because I gave it a tangible thing as the name, not only does it suggest a logo, but it's very memorable for people. If I gave it some strategic marketing or whatever name, nobody would really remember it. People remember Blue Penguin. So it's become a brand unto itself without my spending, of course, millions of dollars promoting it. So it's been really good, but a total accident.

You know, I completely agree with you there. It's actually. It is memorable. I remember I didn't tell you this when we. So for those of you who don't know, Michael and I spent some time In Chicago, we presented at a workshop for American writers and artists. And I knew of you years ago, this must have been 2003, 2004, when I was getting started. And I think I bought. Did you have a couple of ebooks back then on newsletters?

Yeah.

Yeah, I must have bought, you know, what you had. And, you know, it was really good stuff because I was starting a newsletter of my own, and I never forgot that, like, the name. I may have forgotten Michael Katz, but Blue Penguin. I remember the name and I remember your face. You know, like, associated with.

Sorry. You know what's funny, too, is I think this has changed, too. People used to, really, before we Forget that even 10 years ago, while Google was around, it was not this ubiquitous thing the way it is today. And so people would work on a URL that others could remember, like that mattered. But today, like, if I wanted to find you, I would just put in, like, you know, Ed Gandia writing, or actually, your name's unique enough, it would probably just pop right up. So in my case, you just put in, like, Michael Blue Penguin, and you'll find me. So it actually makes it easy for people to find you, regardless of what your company's actually called.

That's exactly how I found you, by the way. Because when I knew we were speaking, I wanted to look you up and because I remember that's the next time I heard about you and I did Michael Katz Blue Penguin or Michael Blue Penguin or something like that.

Yeah, very cool.

I've been meaning to ask you that. So very cool story, and I think a great lesson there. So today we're talking about newsletters and specifically the opportunity for business writers in the newsletter arena. So let's start by defining. I know that might sound basic, but I want to be on the same page with everyone here. We should define what this opportunity is about from the writer's point of view. So who were the potential clients for this type of work? And what types of newsletters are we talking about?

Yeah, that's a great question. Because newsletters, the way I look at them, they're a subset of email marketing. A lot of times people will equate newsletters with all that is email marketing. And they're really a particular type. And even within that, the kind of newsletters where there's an opportunity for writers like us are distinct from, like, what Target might send out with a special. I mean, I guess at some level, that's a newsletter too. And people will certainly use them interchangeably. But what I'm talking about are Informational content. Heavy, useful newsletters. So there's nothing wrong with sending promotions and all that, but the concept here is the newsletter is a proxy for the writer, whether it's a company or an individual getting together with somebody in person. Like if you could have lunch with everyone you knew, you wouldn't need a newsletter. You know, if you could do it every day or, you know, every month. The newsletter is sharing a little bit of knowledge and insight and personality in a way that helps somebody learn something. That's why it has to be useful. They don't want to get it just because it's about you. And the problem people have and the opportunity for people like us is that most people hate and or are terrible at writing, but they understand there's an opportunity here because if you don't stay in front of people, whether you're a company of one or a company of a thousand, you've got a problem. And so where we come in is we solve this essential problem. It's the biggest stumbling block everybody has to newsletters is if you can't write or you hate it, you can't get it done. So we solve that for people.

Yeah, yeah, right. It's the kind of thing, it's not a one time thing either. So people, I would think that potential clients who can't write also hate the idea of not only can I not write next week's, but this is like an ongoing thing. And the thought of it just makes me cringe.

Right. So it's funny because I spoke to a business group last night and so, you know, one of the things I was talking about was, okay, it's great to stay in touch through Twitter or Facebook or, you know, sending people birthday cards. That's good stuff. But none of that makes you an expert in your field. You've got to create content in some way where you share your point of view. And I don't want to scare people who are doing nothing. So I always say, look, produce one thing that won't get old that you can give away like a free download kind of thing. And yes, a newsletter is better because it repeats. But don't bite that off yet if you're not doing it because you'll never do it, it's too big a commitment. But the truth is it doesn't solve the bigger problem, which is I need to be in front of you in an ongoing way over time. And that's where the newsletter is so beneficial, because it repeats and repeats and repeats really forever until somebody says stop. That's why it's such a good marketing tool.

So let's talk about what this type of work involves. Again from the writer's point of view. Are we talking about just the writing? Is your design work involved? Is there some consulting? You know what would be the deliverable here for a client?

Well, I like to think of a newsletter like a magazine. So magazine has three parts. There's a design that is kind of the same every time. Like Time magazine looks the same every week. Same with a newsletter. There's a design, it's more or less a one time event where it's set up. Then Time magazine has delivery mechanism. There's people who subscribe, whether it's online or they mail it to you. There's a whole back end kind of thing, newsletter as well. You need some way to deliver this because it's really just a glorified email. And there's all kinds of vendors from constant contact to mailchimp who cheaply and easily do this for you. And then the third piece, again like a magazine is there's content which changes every time you publish. The mistake many writers make is they just show up and say, I'll do the writing for you. I'm a writer, that's what I'll do. Two problems with that. One is the typical client who you're going to do this for, they want as little to do with this as possible. So I find that most people, not everyone, but most people who run a business, particularly if they sell a service where it's sort of a less tangible thing, a five minute discussion about, hey, staying in front of people, you know, over and over again, that's a good thing, isn't that, don't you want to do that? People will nod their head, yes, I agree, that's good. But they don't want to get into the design and the back end and the setting it up and all that. If you just show up and say I'll give you the words, you take care of the rest, you've solved maybe the biggest problem for them. But you haven't kind of taken them all the way home. And when I first started doing newsletters, that's what I was trying to do. Like, hey, here's your word, here are your words. Get it out the door. They couldn't do it, they didn't want to do it. What I learned was I, I need to provide one stop shopping. I don't necessarily have to do it all myself. So for example, I'm not a designer, I hire a designer. I could do Most of the back end setup, but I have a tech guy who does that because it's not really my strong point. Like your listeners, my skill is essentially writing, but I package it as one stop shopping. And so now I can say to the accounting firm or the financial planner or whatever, hey, I'll do the whole thing. All you have to do is let me interview you and we can talk more about what that's about. So they have to provide me with the information because I'm not an expert in accounting or finance or whatever. But that's it. I'll take care of setting it up, the back end, the design. They approve it, of course, but once I went to that and said, you don't have to worry about it now, people were ready to buy again. Not everybody, but it allowed. By offering them a one stop shop full package, I made it easy for them to buy.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I would think also especially with the types of businesses you're talking about, so small and mid sized businesses, I would think if you're doing this for a much larger corporation, they might have some of these pieces already in house or maybe somebody. But I know that in fact. Well, let me ask you, I don't know, do you think the sweet spot is kind of that small to mid sized business for this opportunity?

I think the sweet spot is less a function of size than it is a function of what they do. So when I first started doing newsletters also, I did them for anyone. And what I discovered after a while was the less tangible the thing you sold was and the more what you sold was interchangeable with your competition, the more valuable this was. So for example, I could do a newsletter for a pet store or someone who sells sneakers or something. And that's okay, it keeps them in front of people. But the differentiator between one pair of sneakers and another is it's sort of tangible thing. You can pick it up and try it out. A financial planning firm on the other hand, or any professional service provider, consultant, coach, doctor, they're all selling the exact same thing as their competition. Every law firm sells with the other firm sells. You know, people may argue about who's better than who, but the truth is your potential clients and even your existing clients can't tell the difference. Like you don't know how good an attorney, your lawyer is.

Yeah, they're all selling legal services, financial planning.

So when you're in a world that's that generic, the differentiator, which again was, I didn't realize this at first are the people, but it's not their legal skills or their finance skills. It's their personality, their point of view, the way they interact with you. I mean, if you think about, you know, if you love your doctor, it's not because she's a great doctor, because you don't even know, you don't even know where she went to medical school. It's because, you know, it's little things. She treats you like a human being, that magazines are nice in the waiting room, whatever. So what I found with the newsletter is the perfect combination is a combination of useful information, but also a natural authentic personality that reflects the company in question. And the perfect sweet spot are these people who sell professional services. The other great thing is in general, these people we're talking about consultants, coaches, recruiters, attorneys. They're not marketing people. They're definitely not salespeople. They're people with a particular skill. And what they want are enough clients and they want to do the work, but they don't want to get the work. So often the newsletter is their marketing program. That's all they do. So again, I'm looking for clients who find what I do to be in some sense sort of magical. For somebody like that who does no marketing and then starts doing a quality newsletter, it can have a big impact on their business. If your newsletter is one of a thousand marketing things that the company is doing, it's not going to have the same impact. You don't end up being perceived as valuable. And I think it's not just perceived, it's true. You are more valuable to that firm that looks the same as its competition and doesn't do much marketing. So anyway, that's the sweet spot. I don't think size matters. It's more difficult as there's more people involved, but you tend to charge more. So it kind of works out either way.

Let's talk about what's involved, what's involved in doing this kind of work. And you know, you mentioned that there's more to it than the writing and you want to take, you know, as much of this as possible away from the client. But let's talk about the pieces. So once you're in, what does this take? You mentioned an interview, you mentioned writing, you mentioned working with some other partners.

Yeah, and let me also say that one of the reasons it's good to offer this as a one stop shopping is it's easy for the customer to buy. The other is if all you're selling is my writing skills. Now you look like that generic guy who's the same as 10,000 other writers. You don't want that. Yes, you want to make it. And this is true. Not just writers, any of us who sell professional services. You want to make it as difficult as possible for me to compare you apples to apples with anybody else. And if you say I'm a writer and I charge 75 an hour, well, great, there's some other guy at 65 an hour or 50 an hour. You know it's a losing game when you package your writing up inside of a thing called a newsletter service. Now, not that someone else couldn't offer the exact same thing, but you complicated the decision for your potential client. There's not as many options and you're offering a more complete thing, which makes it easier to sell. You can price it a lot higher. It keeps you yourself from being a commodity in terms of the way to do it. Here's how I describe it to clients. It's kind of a two step process because a newsletter is a very front loaded thing. You have to figure out how it's going to look. You have to set up all that back end, constant contact kind of stuff and then you have to figure out who's the audience and what's the voice and what are you going to write about and all that stuff. I have those discussions over usually like a two month period up front. And I call that building the machine. That phase ends when we launch the first newsletter. When I sell it to people, I sell it as phase one. We figure the whole thing out, set the whole thing up, all the messages you need and all that kind of logistical stuff, and we launch. When we launch, the machine is done. The second part is you have to publish this thing over and over again, forever. There. I just out of convenience, since I'd usually do it monthly, I charge people usually on a quarterly basis. It's just easier than invoicing them every month. And so all my clients are on the same quarterly basis. So January 1, April 1, everyone I send out my invoices. And it sort of makes it easy that way. But by separating these into two phases, it's easy for people to understand. And what you want as someone selling this is you by no means want to give away the machine building piece because that's do a lot of work. But it's the whole razor blades and razors. You make your money really on the client who publishes month after month forever. I've got three or four clients I've had for 10 years.

Wow.

I mean that's just that money just keeps coming in, which is great. And they're easy to work with because we've been together that long. That's a good thing about this business. There's an annuity element to it.

Gotcha. But you should definitely charge something for that building the machine part.

Oh, and a significant something. Now, again, I always say to people, and I said this at the conference where we met when I was talking to people, if you're just starting out, just get yourself some clients. So don't worry so much about. Yeah, maybe you do a lot of work in the launch piece. You can always raise the price on the next client on the front end piece. But in the beginning, what you want or to start accumulating a sort of a stable of monthly clients who you work with over and over again. And it's nice because it gets easier and easier. I had a call just before this call for like an hour with these two clients. I've had two people who own a market research firm. I think they've been clients, I don't know, seven or eight years. I mean, it's so efficient. They email me, hey, how's next Tuesday? We get on the phone, we talk, we work it out. Now my job is to take the notes and go off and write it up and put it in front of them. And it's every few years where they say, oh, this is terrible. Usually it's pretty much on what they want. It's nice because you learn how to write in their voice and you learn their industry and all that.

I know that the range, I'm sure it's pretty wide, but can you give me a rough idea of how time intensive it is to build a machine? Phase one and then the ongoing newsletter work, what are we talking about time wise?

So the way I like to do it is I tell people it's a two to three month process to build the machine. I like to meet with them either in person if we're local or on the phone if we're not, once a week over, you know, whatever it is, eight or nine or ten sessions, whatever it takes. And I don't know, I'd say I tend to spend longer with people when we're in person just because you end up sort of shooting the breeze over coffee. But I'm probably on the phone with them for like 90 minutes each time. The reason for the week in between is you could compress it. But a lot of this discussion in the beginning, like before you get into the logistics of like what color should the banner be? I really like to get into it with people about, well, who's your target audience and how do you want to come across? And what business are you in anyway? And so it's. It often becomes these sort of broader discussions, and people need time to digest that in between. If I did it in two days solid, people need time to digest that in between. If I did it in two days solid, the result wouldn't be as good. I once had a client hire me and say, hey, let's do it in one day. And I said, all right. And it wasn't nearly as good. This stuff needs to percolate a bit. Plus, as you start getting closer to the end, there's other things that take time. You need to have a designer setting it up. There's some setup on the constant content mailchimp side, so it starts to necessarily spread out. But two or three months is sort of a comfortable period of time. I don't even do the math on time because I do everything flat fee. So it doesn't matter to me how much time it takes.

Yeah, yeah. And that's the way what we promote around here too, by the way, for everything.

Yeah. And so as long as you're charging a lot, it doesn't matter if some people take more than others, because you're sort of making a decent profit on everybody. And then on a monthly basis, I offer two flavors. So one is the one I described. I interview you. That's about twice as expensive in terms of how I do it as another way, which is I coach you on doing it. And the larger, more established, even solos, but more established people tend to want the interview because they're busy. They want to spend as little time on this as possible. They'd love it if they didn't have to spend any time with me. But the way I do it is, hey, it's your knowledge that's the key here. So I need your stuff. If I go research it on the Internet, it's not your insights, which is what ultimately people are buying. The coaching model is the client has to write the first draft, which to me halves the price. Because the hard part, like, again, I talked to these guys an hour ago. The hard part is I got an hour of notes I've been typing while they're talking. I got to sort that out into something, you know, usable. It's a lot easier if someone goes here and it's kind of okay, but, you know, it's not really well written. And my job is to just move stuff around and fix it. And I've priced it in a way that I'm actually impartial as to which one they choose, because one's twice as expensive, but it's also twice as hard. So it allows me, when I talk to a client, to say, hey, there's two ways to go here. You do it or I do it, whichever you want. I've had people switch from one to the other, and I really don't care. And that works out pretty well because this way I'm not boxing out the people who want my help but can't really afford for me to interview them.

Yeah, yeah. So let's give me a range, if you can, on if you're starting out, let's say you're a very good writer, but you haven't done this before. The newsletter thing, we talked about phase one, about how, hey, when you're starting out, just get some clients, just get it going. You can build that out later. But once you're established, what do you think is a reasonable range to build that machine?

Well, so you want to think about what's my out of pocket cost? So there's the designer and there's to some degree, the tech guy. So here too, I used to say to people, well, here's my fee, and then we'll go get a designer and, you know, he or she could cost you, I don't know, 500 to $1,000 to design it. That was okay, but again, I was introducing uncertainty into the equation for my client. What I've been doing now for years is I say, it's all included. This one price will get you a newsletter. And I tell him, I'll have this guy design this thing a thousand times until you love it. Like, not, you know, you get two passes and then the clock starts running. I found I don't need to do that. Most people, again, they're not trying to waste my time. So if you have a good designer. So, okay, I think the most I ever paid out of pocket for client Design was like $1,300 because I had var, sort of picky company. But so what? I've had clients where it cost me $200. So by saying to the client, I'll deal with the variability, not you. Again, it makes it easier for them to buy. But anyway, that's a real cost. The tech guy, not to get too technical here, but the designer will design the way it looks, but he or she is just designing essentially a picture of the newsletter in something like Photoshop to send it out. That picture has to be kind of wrapped around the engine of constant contact or mailchimp or whatever. Most designers don't know enough to do that. It becomes a pretty techy thing. So I find I have a tech guy who takes the design and he like builds it in constant contact because that's who I use. So in general, my cost, you know, if I'm under 1,000, I'm feeling pretty good between those two people. Okay, so back to the question of if you're just starting out. I mean, the first newsletter I ever did, I charged $1,000 for that upfront cost, but that was 10, 12 years ago. I would say 2,000 to 4,000 if you're just starting out. But again, you don't want this to be a stumbling block, but you don't want to give it away either. And someone who, you want someone who's going to pay you on an ongoing basis, hundreds, if not over 1000. So if they can't step up to a one time fee of 2000, they're probably not a real good client anyway. Now I should say also some people take a different approach, which is almost more like the newsletter factory approach. They try and churn out 40, 50, 60 newsletters for clients every month and that can work too. But I don't do that. I'm more of sort of a custom shop, if you will. I produce maybe 12 or 15amonth.

Yeah. And that's still quite a bit. But I'm with you. I mean this is not, we don't promote the content mill here, you know, anything close to that. So I can see why that might sound attractive, but that has some serious disadvantages. So.

Yeah, and it's a totally different business. You're running a, you're running a factory.

You are, you are.

And I don't, I don't want you. So. But again, so that, you know, I'd say 2 to 4,000 attractive, but that.

Has some serious disadvantages. So.

Yeah, and you're, it's, it's a, it could seem like a lot, but you're going to spend a thousand just paying the people who are helping you.

Exactly.

Totally different business. You're, you're running a, you're running a factory.

You are, you are.

And I don't, I don't want you. So. But again, so that, you know, I'd say 2 to 4,000.

We do have some hard costs.

Yeah. And then in terms of the monthly, you know, that really can be all over the map. But if you're going to interview someone you know, there's no way you want to do it for less than, I don't know, 7:50, it'll take a long time sometimes and if you're going to fix and then, you know, 750 and up. I mean, I think the most I ever charged a big company for once a month was like 6,000amonth. But you know, I earned my money. I went into a meeting with 10 people and then legal and PR. I mean it was a lot of work to get that thing signed off on. Yeah, yeah, I'd much prefer the two person company, but you know, I guess sort of the sky's the limit on the top. But I'd say if you're just starting out 750, if you had interview them and you know, maybe half of that, if you were going to just fix it, you know, you got to figure out, do the numbers add up for you? Like, you know, if you could handle 15 clients a month paying you X dollars, is that the money you need? And you know, everybody's going to have a different answer. I'll tell you something else though. When I first started with newsletters, I remember sort of having the insight that boy, this is a great product. In fact, that was my second lucky accident, which was I sort of stumbled onto newsletters as a marketing tool for myself and I realized how effective they were. And then I realized that people needed help with writing and I was a good writer and all that. And I remember thinking, this is great, I love doing them, they're really effective. But when I ran the numbers, there's like no way I can like make a living off of this. Until it occurred to me one day to like triple my prices. And then suddenly it worked.

What an insight.

Yeah, so whatever. I always tell people when they're starting out, whatever number you're cringing at because you think it's too high, you will laugh at in five years. So just raise it now. Yeah, yeah, and laugh sooner.

True, true. And listen, there's enough demand out there, which is actually my next question. There's enough demand out there that you can afford to experiment a little bit. And hopefully you're not approaching this. If you're interested in doing this, you're not approaching it with a mindset of oh my gosh, I gotta pay the mortgage in three weeks and so I gotta find someone like right away. But I've never done this before.

Yeah, well, you know, it varies, but I'll tell you, I have a client, I have a year long coaching class, I do and I Have a student in that class who does newsletters for doctors. And she's been charging something like 8:50 for, you know, a few years. And she's kind of barely getting by. And I just been kind of gently poking her for a couple of months. Months. And she just got a new client for 2,000amonth.

Oh, wow. She went from 850 to 2,000.

Right now my rule is I never raised prices on existing clients, so she didn't bump an existing client. But I've been like, okay, the next person who comes through the door, just 2,000. And you know, she's good. She's working hard. She's not like pulling a fast one on people. Yeah, she's been underpricing herself and it was hard for her, but, boy, you can bet she was. I got a very happy email back from her. And now what's very ironic to me is that the more you charge, the more generous you can be with your time because you're not at the razor thin edge and the people who are willing to pay you more are better clients. You'd think they'd be more demanding. But what I found is that the more you charge, yes, you lose people who just can't or won't pay that, but the ones who remain will pay that because for whatever reason, they think you in particular are really good.

Mm.

It's like you. You filter out all but your real fans or people who, for whatever reason, like you and your stuff. And so the higher price leaves you with the most easy to satisfy people because they think you're really good. Whereas at the low end, they think, oh, well, freelance writer. If you're no good, I'll get another guy like, you don't want to be in that. To me, that's called having a job where you're irreplaceable. You want to be differentiated in some way, and then again, everyone's happy. You make more money with clients that you like and they like you. It's a very virtuous cycle.

That's actually excellent advice for. I think any type of work, not just writing newsletters, is just by raising your fees, you'll start working with just better quality clients, period.

Yeah, yeah. It's counterintuitive, but it's definitely true.

So let's talk a little bit about getting clients and the demand for this type of work out there. It would seem to me that we've gotten to a point. Ten years ago, maybe we weren't there, but today the whole newsletter thing is pretty common. But you Tell me not just writing newsletters is just by raising your fees, you'll start working with just better quality clients, period.

Yeah, yeah. It's counterintuitive, but it's definitely true.

So let's talk a little bit about getting clients and the demand for this type of work out there. It would seem to me that, you know, we've gotten to, I mean, are we at a point where people in businesses kind of understand this, where you're seeing more and more people already kind of getting the value of this, so you don't have to educate and do all the selling of why you need this.

It's a funny thing. It's really because I've started. Well, I started my point.

10 years ago. Maybe we weren't there.

But today working on my own in 2000, and I think I got into newsletters in 2001 at some point. It's gone through an unbelievable change. In those years when I started, the biggest objection clients had to newsletters was that their clients didn't have email. And it was true. None of my people have email. I was like, okay, it's coming.

But you know, the whole newsletter thing is pretty common. So. But you tell me, I mean, are we at a point where people in businesses kind of understand this, where you're seeing more and more people already kind of getting the value of this so you don't have to educate and do all the selling of.

No, no one. Believe me. Then maybe 2003 or 4, it was. It was like white hot, like social media is today. People wanted a newsletter but couldn't tell you why. They just thought they wanted one.

Yeah.

Which isn't bad if you're selling it when. When the market's like that.

What I find why you need this.

It's a funny thing. It's really because I've started. Well, I started my working on my own in 2000 and I think I got into newsletters in 2001. At some point is you attract a lot of big companies because you have people who are like in the marketing department somewhere who are like, we got to have one of these and they don't even care so much about the result as we got to have one. I mean, that's kind of how social media is for a lot of people today. They can't give you a coherent reason. It's gone through an unbelievable change. In those years when I started, the biggest objection clients had to newsletters was that their clients didn't have email. Why? Because they haven't thought about that. They Just want it. So that was very big. There's like two or three years. Like I couldn't pick up the phone fast enough. Then you may remember the whole sort of spam thing came about. People said email was going to die, which of course it didn't, but it became sort of more commonplace. And it was true. None of my people have email. I was like, okay, it's coming. But I actually started to worry that, oh, no, is sort of this the end. What I found, no one believed me then, maybe 2003 was that what's happening now is there's this renewed interest in what people talk about. Three or four. It was like white hot, like social media is today. People wanted a newsletter but couldn't tell you why. They just thought they wanted one. And it's content marketing, that's newsletters. Like there's nothing new there. But I think people are realizing that email and newsletters and sort of longer format content doesn't compete with social media. Social media is in many ways the fuel. Because all those people out there trying to tweet and do everything else every day, which isn't bad if you're selling it. When the market's like that, what I find, they need something to point to. Like, there's someone's got to be producing original content for me to link to is you attract a lot of big companies because you have people who are like in the marketing department somewhere who are like, we gotta have one of these. And they don't even care so much about the result as we gotta have one. I mean, that's kind of how social media is for a lot of people today. Yeah, they can't give you a coherent reason to do it. So now you got all these people who are trying to connect to things. So the people who produce the content get more visibility. So it's sort of coming back the other way. I would say that the smaller companies and certainly the solos never left because all they care about is what works. People in bigger companies tend to care more about what's trendy, which, again, a little counterintuitive. But the small guys, why? Because they haven't thought about that. They just want it. So that was very big. They won't spend money on something that's no good and they will spend money on something that makes a difference. So they've always been around in terms of how to get into it. And this is like two or three years. Like, I couldn't pick up the phone fast enough then. Or bigger than just newsletters too. Is you really want to narrow your focus. You may remember the whole sort of spam thing came about. People said email was gonna die, which, you know, of course it didn't, but it became sort of more commonplace and like it'd be much easier to start doing newsletters for doctors like the woman I mentioned or attorneys or pet stores, you know, whatever, than to just do newsletters in general. Because the more you can be seen as the expert or the go to man or woman in that field, the easier it is to sell stuff. And that's true of everything, not just newsletters.

I agree. But this is starting to feel like the kind of.

I actually started to worry that oh no, is sort of this the end.

What I found nervous, where it's even more important to be that specific, was.

That what's happening now is there's this renewed interest in what people talk about.

You know, at least because it's out there. Because it's out there and in here you're developing real content all the time. So they want to know, gosh, you already understand.

How does content marketing. Yeah, that's newsletters. Like there's nothing new there. But I think people are realizing that email and newsletters and sort of long how we operate.

You understand our business or our industry.

Yes, Although I know it's funny. Well, two things. One is the fundamentals haven't changed. Like, I wrote a book on newsletters in 2003, which I'm kind of embarrassed to sell anymore because it's format content doesn't compete with social. Social media is in many ways 10 years old. Everyone's still making the same mistakes that are covered in that book. So, like fuel, because all those people out there trying to tweet and do everything else every day, people haven't gotten better. The other thing is nobody's gotten one bit better. Right. I need something to point to. Like someone's got to be producing original content for me to link to it. So now you got all these people who are trying to connect to things. So the people who. And you know what. And they never will. And that's what's great about what we do. It can't be outsourced to another country for $2 an hour. Because if you don't, if English isn't your first language, it's really hard to write well. And all the people who hate writing and are terrible at it, it'll be this way forever. So that's good. I produce the content, get more visibility. So it's sort of coming back the other way. I would say that the smaller companies and certainly the solos never left. Agree. People want to know, have you ever done a newsletter for a financial planner before? And what's funny is now that I've done it for certainly not every specialty in the world, but pretty much anyone who says you've ever done one, the answer is yes. But I always say yes. But it actually doesn't matter because it's your information, Mr. Financial. Because all they care about is what works. People in bigger companies tend to care more about what's trendy, which again a little counterintuitive. But the small guys they plan are not mine. What I bring is an ability to turn your thoughts into something that like another human wants to read and to understand the newsletter fundamental stuff. And you do have to get into a bit of this. You know, how long should the subject line be? How often do you publish kind of logistical stuff. But the truth is I don't need to know anyone spend money on something that's no good and they will spend money on something that makes a difference. So they've always been around in terms of how to get into it. And this is the thing about your industry and neither do your listeners who are good writers. Our skill is pulling out the juice, if you will.

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. So wrap it up with this. Would you say could you make as a writer, could you make a good.

Living bigger than or bigger than just newsletters too is you really want to narrow your focus. Like it'd be much easier to start doing newsletters for doctors like the woman.

I mentioned doing this type of work exclusively or can you offer it as.

One of or attorneys or pet stores, you know, whatever than to just do newsletters in general because the more you can be seen as the expert or.

The go to the services that you provide.

Well yes to both. I mean I did it exclusively for probably 10 years and only started branching out because I had other solos saying hey, can you help me be a solo? So I now more of a sort of coach and stuff like that. But you know, I made more than I made as to man or woman in that field. The easier it is to sell stuff. And that's true of everything, not just newsletters.

I agree. But this is starting to feel like.

The kind of an employee in a good sized company after I don't know, four or five years. So yes, absolutely.

I think service where it's even more important to be that specific, you know.

At least because it's.

Because it's out there, because it's out there.

And the key is, again, specialization. One stop shopping for people and offering them these options like, I could do it this way or that way.

Here you're developing real content all the time. So they want to know, gosh, you already understand how we operate. Do you understand our business or our industry?

Yes. Although it's funny. Well, two things. So it's not just only one flavor to me. What's made a difference for me, I love it.

I love it. So a couple of things I wanted to ask you about as we're wrapping up.

One is the fundamentals haven't changed.

Where can listeners learn more about you?

The easiest way to find my website. Well, of course, you could just Google Michael Blue Penguin, but Michael Katz guy. I wrote a book on newsletters in 2003, which I'm kind of embarrassed to sell anymore because it's come, we'll get you there. And I have a newsletter. And I should say, by the way, not only is this useful for your clients, it's useful for you too, as a writer. So this is a great tool for us. I mean, it really works. And you know what else I find it very helpful to be able to say to a potential client, particularly if you're going to make this the thing you do that. I have a newsletter, too. Ten years old, everyone's still making the same mistakes that are covered in that book. So people haven't gotten better. The other thing is nobody's gotten one bit better at writing. Like, the fact that I walk the tuck is very compelling to people. So I would say again, since all of us on this call have figured out the biggest problem in that we like to write and we're good at it. You want to be producing this kind of content. And you know what? And they never will. And that's what's great about what we do. It can't be outsourced to another country for $2 an hour because if you don't, English isn't your first for yourself. But anyway, so I have it free letter that talks about. It's broader than newsletters, essentially marketing for solo professionals. And you can get that on the site along with my most recent book is a free download language. It's really hard to write well and all the people who hate writing and are terrible at it, it'll be this way forever. So that's good.

Oh, awesome. Yeah. So basically your newsletter is geared to people like us.

Right. And for solo professionals. Those are my people.

Awesome. Awesome. And then I agree.

People want to know, have you ever Done a newsletter for a financial planner before and I almost forgot to ask.

You, but you have a course on newsletters.

What's funny is now that I've done it for, you know, certainly not every.

Right. Through American writers and artists.

Exactly.

Talk about that real quick.

Yeah, it's a. I guess you'd call it multimedia because it's a written kind of thing. But we've also got some audio and some actual video things where I take people through newsletters and specialty in the world. But pretty much anyone who says you've ever done one, the answer is yes. But I always say yes. It's all the principles of doing a newsletter. You know, all the things. But it actually doesn't matter because it's your information, Mr. Financial Planner, not mine. What I bring is an ability to turn your thoughts into something that like another human wants to read and to understand the newsletter. Fundamental stuff. And you've talked about like, well, what should it look like and how do you figure out your voice and all that. And it's geared towards how do you do this in the service of a client. And then it's got a significant section on pricing and talking to clients and how do you make all that work? So kind of what we've been talking about here in a lot more detail.

Awesome. And I'll make sure to include a link to that in the show notes for this episode.

That'd be great.

So, hey Michael, thanks for coming on.

You have to get into a bit of this. You know, how long should the subject line be? How often do you publish?

This is. Well, it's been eye opening. This is really cool and I know it's been around for a long time, but my gosh, the opportunity with this service is. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, thanks. Always a pleasure, Ed.

Well, folks, I hope this kind of.

Logistical stuff, but the truth is I don't need to know anything about your industry and neither do your listeners who are good writers. Our skill is.

If you enjoyed that interview. I know Michael is a real pro at this and I tell you, he is living proof that you can make this happen. He's not just doing himself, but he's taught many other freelance writers how to develop this side of their business.

Is pulling out the juice, if you will.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. How to offer the service to the clients and how to make a really, really good living doing this. I agree. So let's wrap it up with this. I hope you take his advice to heart. I wanted to let you know that his publisher for could you make as a writer, could you make a good living? The program that he mentioned, American Writers and Artists is currently doing a promotion of Michael's program on writing and producing newsletters where you get $50 off the price of the program. This is something doing this type of work exclusively or can you offer it as one of a couple of times a year from what I understand and I just happen to catch this at the right when I the services that you provide.

Well yes to both. I mean I I did it exclusively for probably 10 years and only started.

Branching out contacted them about them to give them a heads up that we had mentioned the program in the episode. They let me know that hey this actually. This promotion is actually running through this Friday, September 20th. So there's nothing you need to do in terms of coupon codes or anything. Just go to the link you see in the show notes and just a short link for that is b2b launcher.com.

Because I had other solo saying hey can you help me be a solo? So I now I'm more of a sort of coach and stuff like that. But you know I made more than.

I made as newsletters and you'll automatically be taken to a page that explains the program in detail and has the $50 off already in it. Just to make sure you understand this is an affiliate link which means that if you happen to purchase the program.

Then an employee and a good sized company after I don't know, four or.

Five we do get a commission here at B2B launcher at the high income business writing podcast and that just helps us keep doing what we do. So there's you don't pay anymore.

It's just five years. So yes, absolutely.

I think a commission that we get for recommending the program. We don't recommend anything here that we don't really believe in. As a reminder, you can grab the details show notes of this episode at b2b lunch.

The key is again specialization. One stop shopping for people entre.com forward.

Slash episode 21 the number 21 a.

Couple of quick announcements and offering them these options like I could do it.

This way or that way before we sign off. My B2B business launcher program sold out last week but I just opened two more spots. So if you're a new OR spot.

So it's not just, you know only one flavor have to me what's made.

A difference for me hiring B2B or business writer and copywriter. This is the program where I love it. I love it. So a couple of things I wanted to ask you about as we're wrapping up I show you and I work with you personally to launch your business in 10 where can listeners learn more about you? Weeks or less you'll have a fully functioning business and hopefully a client or two before the holidays get here. If you want to learn more about.

This opportunity, it's the best way to find my website. Well of course you could just google Michael Blue penguin but Michael katz.b2b launcher.com.

Info info but the deadline to apply is this Friday September 20th and we.

Start the program com we'll get you there. And I have a newsletter and I should say by the way not only.

Next Tuesday, September 24th so not a lot of time left. Check it out if you're Is this.

Useful for your clients? It's useful for you too. As a writer so interested in learning more.

If you enjoyed this episode, I would be very very grateful if you shared it with friends.

This is a great tool for us. I mean it really works. And you know what else? I find it very helpful to be.

Able to the easiest way to do that is to use any of the sharing buttons that you'll see on the.

Show notes page say to a potential client particularly if you're going to make this the thing you do that. I have a newsletter too.

Of course you can also go to b2b launcher.com love and it would mean a lot to me if you gave the show a quick rating or review on itun enjoying the material we've been covering here. And the easiest way to do that is just go to B2B launcher like.

The fact that I walk the tuck is very compelling to people. So I would say com forward slash.

Itunes I wanted to thank some of the recent reviewers in itunes Paul Patsloff, Angus Stocking Card Dob again since all.

Of us on this call have have figured out the biggest problem writing Pastor.

And Dan one obi album in that.

We like to write and we're good at it. You want to be producing this kind of content.

Obviously those are the itunes names but you know who you are.

I truly appreciate for yourself but anyway so I have a free newsletter that talks about it's broader than newsletters essentially.

Star rating and quick review. It means a lot to me and it does help give the show higher ratings so that the people who really need this information can find it. So this brings us to the end of the episode. I am your host Ed Gandia. Thanks so much for listening.

I hope marketing for solo professionals and you can get that on the site, along with my most recent book, is a free download.

You have an awesome day. The High Income Business Writing Podcast. Oh, awesome. Yeah. So basically your newsletter is geared to people like us, is a production of B to B business launcher.

Learn more at B2B. Right. For solo professionals. Those are my people.

Awesome, awesome. And then I. Launcher.com. almost forgot to ask you, but you have a course on newsletters, right? Through American writers and artists.

Exactly.

Talk about that real quick.

Yeah, it's a. It's a. I guess you'd call it multimedia because it's a, you know, written kind of thing. But we've also got some audio and some actual video things where I take people through newsletters. Newsletters. And it's all the principles of doing a newsletter. You know, all the things we've talked about, like, well, what should it look like and how do you figure out your voice and all that. And it's geared towards how do you do this in the service of a client. And then it's got a significant section on pricing and talking to clients and how do you make all that work? So kind of what we've been talking about here in a lot more detail.

Awesome. And I'll make sure to include a link to that in the show notes for this episode.

That'd be great.

Hey, Michael, thanks for coming on. It's been eye opening. This is really cool and I know it's been around for a long time, but my gosh, the opportunity with this service is pretty cool.

Yeah, thanks. Always a pleasure, Ed.

Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that interview. I know Michael is a real pro at this and I tell you, he is living proof that you can make this happen. He's not just doing it himself, but he's taught many other freelance writers how to develop this side of their business, how to offer the service to their clients, and how to make a really, really good living doing this. I hope you take his advice to heart. I wanted to let you know that his publisher for the program that he mentioned, American writers and Artists, is currently doing a promotion of Michael's program on writing and producing newsletters, where you get $50 off the price of the program. This is something they do a couple of times a year, from what I understand. And I just happen to catch this at the right time. When I contacted them about them to give them a heads up that we had mentioned the program in the episode, they let me know that, hey, this actually, this promotion is actually running through this Friday, September 20th, so there's nothing you need to do in terms of coupon codes or anything, just go to the link link you see in the show notes and just a short link for that is b2b launcher.com newsletters and you'll automatically be taken to a page that explains the program in detail and has the $50 off already in it. Just to make sure you understand, this is an affiliate link, which means that if you happen to purchase the program, we do get a commission here at B2B launcher at the High Income Business Writing Podcast. And that just helps us keep doing what we do. So there's you don't pay anymore. It's just a commission that we get for recommending the program. We don't recommend anything here that we don't really believe in. As a reminder, you can grab the detailed show notes of this episode@b2b launcher.com Episode 21 the number 21 a couple of quick announcements before we sign off. My B2B business launcher program sold out last week, but I just opened two more spots. So if you're a new or aspiring B2B or business writer and copywriter, this is the program where I show you and I work with you personally to launch your business. In 10 weeks or less, you'll have a fully functioning business and hopefully a client or two before the holidays get here. If you want to learn more about this opportunity, it's b2b launcher.com info info but the deadline to apply is this Friday, September 20th, and we start the program next Tuesday, September 24th. So not a lot of time left. Check it out if you're interested in learning more. If you enjoyed this episode, I would be very, very grateful if you shared it with friends and the easiest way to do that is to use any of the sharing buttons that you'll see on the Show Notes page. Of course, you can also go to b2b launcher.com love and it would mean a lot to me if you gave the show a quick rating or review on itunes if you're enjoying the material we've been covering here. And the easiest way to do that is just go to b2b launcher.com forward/itunes. I wanted to thank some of the recent reviewers on itunes. Paul Patsloff, Angus stocking card, DOB writing Pastor and Dan 1 underscore obviously, obviously those are the itunes names, but you.

Know who you are.

I truly appreciate the star rating and quick review. It means a lot to me and it does help give the show higher ratings so that the people who really need this information can find it so this brings us to the end of the episode. I am your host, Ed Gandia. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you have an awesome day. The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher.

Learn more at B2B launcher dot com.