#029: The In-Between: Embracing the Journey to Freelance Success

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for episode 29 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. You can find detailed show notes of this episode by going to b2b launcher.com episode 29. Today's episode is a bit on the mindset side of things. And those of you who have been following me for a while know that I'm a huge believer in the power of developing and maintaining the right mindset. And not just in your business, but in your personal life as well. I really believe that freelance writing in any type of entrepreneurship or any type of freelance endeavor is much more an inner game than it is an outer game. So in other words, it's much more about what's going on inside your head and in your heart than it is about the things that you do mechanically do. And today's guest is a gentleman that I think really speaks to this and speaks to a very specific side of this issue that we haven't addressed in the show before. His name is Jeff Goins of goinswriter.com and he's also the author of a wonderful little book called the In Between, Embracing the tension between now and the next big thing. And this book addresses an issue that couldn't be more relevant and important today. So we live in an age of instant gratification, right? We all know that we all want things now. We want the clients, the right clients. We want a higher income, a better car, an amazing partner. That trip we've been planning to Europe for weeks or months, we want to experience that today. We want it now. We can't wait. And while it's great to be ambitious and to want things in the right circumstances and the right things in our life, Jeff argues that this can also cause us to miss all the little things that make life so sweet and amazing. He argues that, look, all those breakthroughs, all these wonderful things are very short lived. What really lasts a long time is that in between time, right when you're going for something and if you don't live that moment, if you're not present, you're going to miss out on a lot. Therefore, his book is called the In Between. So anyway, I asked Jeff to come onto the show and to talk about how this impacts us as freelance writers or aspiring freelance writers. I really found this to be a very thought provoking conversation. I hope you find it useful in inspiring yourself and hang tight. After the interview, I'll be back with some messages. Enjoy it. All right, so I am sitting here with Jeff Goins from goinswriter.com and Jeff, welcome to the show, man. It's great to have you.

Thanks, Ed. Good to be with you.

So, you know, I wanted to kind of set the stage because this, this show is a little bit different from what we've been doing lately. And here in my post and in a lot of the information that I put out there, it's. It's really a lot about setting goals and taking action and going after big things. But I've also found that in the process of going after that next big thing, your big goal, it's very easy to let life slip away, to just miss the moments that make up that journey. I mean, I know in my case, impatience is like a running theme in my life, and I hate to admit that, but I'm just being very open with you guys. From when I was a kid, I remember I couldn't wait for the next big thing, for the next holiday, for the next summer vacation. And this has been something that I've struggled with for a long, long time. So when I came across Jeff, he's got a message that really speaks to this and he makes some very, very important points, I wanted to really bring him to the show because this is a topic that's near and dear to his heart. He's also struggled with this and he's done a lot of thinking and a lot of writing in this area. And I wanted to shine a spotlight on this issue because it's something that affects us all as freelancers who really have to direct kind of our own life and our own business, we're in charge here and it's really up to us. So, Je, it's really good to be talking with you about this. And it's a topic that I don't think gets enough attention out there.

Yeah, I agree, Ed. Thanks for broaching the subject and I'm excited to talk about it. And hopefully it'll help some people enjoy where they are and make sense of their journey. Cool.

Cool. So let's talk about, I guess first of all, why do you think we do this? Why is it that we, and I say as freelance writers, but really most of us, right. Doesn't matter what we do for a living today in this Society, we tend to focus on the next big thing and usually at the expense of the journey to get there. Why is that?

Yeah, so this is a great question. This is why I wrote a book about this subject. Not because I am the world's most patient, most content person in the world, but probably because I'm the worst at that or one of the worst. And I noticed that this is pretty common in our culture to want the next big thing, often at the expense of what's right in front of us. And I think that there are probably lots of explanations for it, but how I make sense of it is, you know, we live in probably the most affluent age, you know, that the world has ever seen. And case in point, we're speaking to each other miles away and through incredible technology that we couldn't have imagined just a few years ago. And it's sort of commonplace. It is for me, and I would imagine is for you, Ed. You use this technology every single day. And so I think that life in many respects has become pretty easy. Survival is no longer a question, it's a given. And so when you get to that point of luxury, I think it's somewhat natural to expect, you know, that everything should come easily. And the problem with that is life doesn't always match up with our expectations.

That is so true. It used to be that there was an expected wait time. Right? I mean, it's like everything drives. Everything points to convenience in making things faster and easier. I know in my. I mean, I can't even. I find myself frustrated if I have to wait in line more than a minute anywhere.

Right? Yeah, yeah. There's certainly this entitlement. I mean, I heard somebody recently say, you know, that we are speaking kind of broadly and multi generationally, but everybody who's kind of living in this era of the information age, we are the most entitled, most ungrateful generation ever. And I think that for me, how I make sense of this is, you know, you go from looking at all the things that you have that you're grateful for because life is hard and life is a struggle. I'm speaking, you know, in terms of a few generations ago, and now all those things are a given. So what do you do? You start looking at the few things that you don't have and you go, well, I don't have that, and my life is terrible. I don't have the car that I want, I don't have the salary that I'd like. I'm not as famous as I hope to be. And we tend to fixate on the things that we don't have while kind of brushing aside the things that we do have. And the irony I found is the more that you concentrate on what you don't have, the less motivated you are to actually get those things, and the less happy you are. I think that's obvious. And the more grateful you are for what you have. Certainly you have this gratitude going through life, but I also think that there's kind of something magical about that where you tend to come by the things that you don't have more easily because you have less of a scarcity mindset, more of an abundance mindset, and you don't need those things, and you're not envying those things. But I think that when we don't have, we tend to kind of go down the slippery slope of woe is me. And having less and less as a result of that. And when we, you know, do have, we tend to get even more. And I think that goes for influence. I think that's definitely true. Nobody wants to hang around with somebody who keeps talking about how many friends they don't have. And I think, within reason, it's also true when it comes to wealth and resources.

You know, I used to think that this is a bunch of trash and. Right, right. And there was a point in my life where I thought, yeah, but that's easy for you, Mr. Professional, to say, because you're at a different point in your life. But I tell you the. And let's just take one aspect of all this. Finances. The better I've done in my business, the more I realize that, you know, there's never an end to this. I mean, this is not something that someone way up above can afford to preach to others. This is at every level of success. I found that this holds true.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Malcolm Gladwell refers to this in Outliers, and he actually quotes a section in the Bible, which is interesting, where he talks about how he's quoting Jesus, where he says, those who have will get more, and those who have not, that'll be taken away from them. Which sounds really bad. But I think the principle is interesting, which is to say people who know how to use their resources and know how to use them wisely, and I mean, I'm speaking broadly, but you can certainly apply that to finances, tend to turn those resources into more resources, and those who don't tend to lose what they have. And so what I have seen in my own life is it's certainly not easy, but once you change your Mindset, your reality becomes that much more malleable. It tends to conform to your expectations. And so if you're going through life thinking, man, I'm never going to have enough, then guess what? You never have enough. If you go through life thinking, man, today is a gift, and I'm gonna use it the best that I can. Everything that comes your way, and things certainly seem to come your way, it feels like a gift. And it's just sort of this compounding effect. And some of it is just a mindset issue, and some of it is that, you know, that mindset in some way, some mysterious way, you know, tends to have an effect on our external circumstances, if for no other reason than we often get the things that we expect.

Now, I'm wondering, in your research into this topic, because I know you took a deep dive into this, obviously, to write your book. Did you find anything that indicated that maybe this is starting to change us biologically? Because I'm wondering the rate of change that we're experiencing today. And change meaning, you know, gratification, getting things immediately, the convenience factor. Is this starting to really kind of rewire our brain in some way?

Well, I mean, there has been a lot in the news over the past two or three years about how the Internet is changing the way we think. And I think the Internet has certainly kind of been the pinnacle of achievement, you know, for the world in terms of technology, connectedness, and even business, you know, the opportunity to earn a living, which is something that I do from, you know, the comfort of my couch with, you know, one piece of equipment and very little overhead. And so, I mean, there's. There's a lot of amazing things about it. But because we, you know, at the, you know, at your fingertip reach, you can get just about anything you want. This has led to this entitlement that we're, you know, talking about. So, you know, I don't know that I would speak to that biologically because, frankly, there's. There's a lot of back and forth on this. Some people think it's really good, some people think it's really bad. There's some. Some interesting, you know, articles, you know, in citations from people that are a lot smarter than me. But what I will say is, looking at my own life, it's kind of impossible to ignore the fact that I am much more prone to distraction than I was five or 10 years ago. And even just getting an iPhone, I've realized there is the temptation in my pocket at any time to engage with somebody on the other side of the world and to disengage with whatever is in front of me, which often is, like my wife or my son or people, that should matter more. And when you stop and think about it, you go, this is ridiculous. But in the moment, I am prone to this and a lot of my friends are too. We choose the person on the other side of the world, which is kind of ridiculous. And so for me, I'm less interested because I'm not a scientist. I'm less interested in proving biologically that this is like rewiring the way we think. And I'm more interested in just kind of the basic practicality of it. I'm sure there's biology involved, but when you do this over and over and over again and technology makes this really, really easy, you're going to form a habit. And for me, I learned the hard way over the past year and a half of becoming a parent, how much I had practiced the habit of distraction and impatience and how with having, you know, a young baby and now a toddler, how much that reared its ugly head just in really struggling to be present to the moment where my son was growing, where he was changing right in front of my eyes.

And.

And I had just a few experiences where I wasn't fully present and I missed something big. And I very quickly realized, man, I do not want to do this. And in what other aspects of my life am I doing this? Where I'm looking at the next big thing, or checking Twitter or doing something ridiculous because what is right in front of me seems less important than what is beyond or in the future or over there? What am I missing when I'm doing that? And how can I be present and try to not miss a thing?

Actually, this leads to my next question, because we've been talking about the importance of this, but there's actually something you talk about, I believe, in your book, which is the growth that happens in these moments of waiting and building something, and in how these are the most important moments in the whole process of going after something big. It's not the attainment of the big thing or the goal, whatever it is. And I know I've been kind of using this example of either quitting your day job, launching your business full time, hitting the six figure mark, wherever it might be, right, that big goal. Can you talk a little bit more about that and what kind of growth you're referring to during this process?

Yeah, so, you know, I used to live for the big moments without realizing that really life is mostly made up of the time in between those big moments. So this in between time, I think, is a very important time. It is basically how we live our lives. How we spend our days is how we live our lives. And what she was saying there was, look at what you're doing today. Don't look at what your goals are, what your aspirations and dreams are. Look at how you spent today. And if you're honest, today probably wasn't as much of an outlier as you would like to think. How you spent today is, in essence, a microcosm of how you're spending. And so really, the question is, am I practicing the kind of person that I want to become? Am I practicing doing what's going to get me those goals, or are those just distant dreams? So, I mean, that's kind of the first lesson that I've learned about to embrace the in between is just the importance of being who I am and doing what I want to do, you know, in the future, Practicing that in some small way now and then. The other reality is coming to grips with the fact that we're never done, that there's always another goal. And I've learned this over the past couple of years of starting my own business, quitting my job, making more money than I've ever made before, and still not feeling complete and kind of going, you know, what's the deal? I got everything that I wanted, and I'm still not satisfied. And so, I mean, that tells me a few things. First, it tells me that maybe the goal of my life isn't to get everything that I want, but to have a great story. And second, maybe the goal is to just live the life that you've been given to live today as well as you can. And I think that I have more of an entrepreneurial mind than a lot of my friends and family. And I think the curse of an entrepreneur or a creative person is because often they're one and the same, is to have this great big hope, this great big dream, this huge vision for what life will look like when you do this amazing work or create this thing or write that book or whatever it might be. And that's great to have that hope. But the problem is we tend to live for that arrival and forget that it takes a journey to get there. And if all we're ever doing is waiting for the then and then, not enjoying the now, I don't think we're going to be very proud of the lives that we're living. Because, as I mentioned, when you get to that then moment, there's still another. There's still another then to get to. I like the analogy of climbing a mountain. You climb to the top of a mountain, you think you've gotten as high as you possibly could, but once you get up there, your perspective has changed and you realize, wow, this is one small peak in an entire range of mountains. And I am just beginning. And that can be very humbling and even defeating if you're living for the mountaintop. But if you're doing work that you love and learn to love what you do, then you enjoy every step of the process, not just that one small moment when you're standing on the highest height.

You know, this makes a lot of sense to me, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute, and I do have a lot of listeners who are in a situation that, well, they feel a little stuck, right? They're approaching retirement and they're excellent writers, have actually been writing on the side for a while. They're making some winners who are in a situation that, well, they feel a little stuck, right? They're approaching retirement and they're excellent writers. They've actually been writing on the side for a while. They're making somewhat of an income to just do this for the rest of their lives. So what I sense, because I field a lot of emails in the recurring theme is this, I need to get out of the situation that I'm in right now. I can't afford to do so financially. The financial collapse a few years ago destroyed my 401k. Writing is my passion. This is what I want to do, but I need to be able to make money from it. So at that point, kind of that big thing becomes such a burning desire that, I mean, what do you tell someone who feels, well, this is the only hope that I have, and I'm not 40 years old like you are. I'm 60 or 65.

Yeah, well, I would say be careful of what you place your hope in. And I would. And at the same time, I would say, if you've got a dream, if you've got a passion, go for it. What I want to be careful of saying is it's not bad to want things. It's really good to want things. And, you know, those of us who are living in some kind of free market society where you can literally change the course of your life, the kind of career that, that you have and the life that you're living, we need to be grateful for that freedom. That opportunity because not everybody in the world has it. And so what a gift that choice is. At the same time, let's be careful that we don't put so much stock in one change thinking it's going to do more for us then it can. And the truth is, work can only do so much for you. And I find that the things that I struggle with in any aspect of life, with a day job in my marriage, whatever areas of impatience and ingratitude and just not being a nice person sometimes when I don't get my way, those things, because I've experienced this, because I've recently quit my job. I recently started a business, recently become a parent. In some ways, I told myself a nice little lie, which was this job, this inconvenience, my spouse not letting me get my way. These are the things standing in the way of what I really want. And if those obstacles were gone, I would not only have what I want, I would be who I want to be. And the only person who has any control over who you are and the kind of person that you want to be, you. And so I have taken my stuff, my issues, my insecurities, my nastiness, from one thing to the next. And I think we have to be really careful. And I'm not saying don't quit your job because if your job sucks, quit it, you know, and have a plan and do it. But don't impose on your current situation certain things that aren't just there or that you actually have control over. Because the truth is, most of our obstacles, not all of them, but most of them are internal. And it's not until we overcome those internal obstacles that we really have the wherewithal to face the external ones. And I've done it wrong. I've gone from one thing to the next and then just brought all that stuff, all those obstacles that I said, oh, it's the job, it's this person, if this were just gone, I would be more productive, I would be more successful. And no, that's not been the case. Only when I've taken responsibility for myself and my actions and my attitude have I been able to actually change those things that sometimes I was placing on other people, placing the blame on them.

Man, that is so true. In my own life and my own career, I remember I was in sales for a long time in corporate sales, and. And one of the things that I hated was the fact that I was always thrown into these really bad territories. Nobody wanted them or they were brand new. I'd never had the Luxury of having a developed territory that I could just at least make a little bit of money in and just not work so hard. And for a long time I was very resentful of that. And looking back, I realized that what appeared to be the worst thing about my career ended up being the biggest blessing. Because it was that challenge, that constant challenge over a 12 year period that stretched me and made me have to explore different ways of building territories. And this is the only reason I'm where I am today and why I'm so good at marketing and selling, because I had to be. I never had the luxury of sitting back. So sometimes I think that there's a, there's that silver lining in what's going on. And I hate to use a cliche, but it's so true. We just need to pay attention. And sometimes it may not be obvious at first. Right. But it's, it's always there.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, it's easy to look backward at all of our hardships and go, wow, that really made me a better person. It's often difficult to look at the current struggle and say, this is making me a better person right now. But what I found, I did a survey on my blog while I was writing this book and I heard back from something like 700 readers. And one of the things we talked about, one of the in between areas that people were struggling with, it was this painful area, it was tragedy, it was my mom's cancer or I've been unemployed for six years. What could be so good about this? And yet these people were saying, I am growing so much, I am learning so much. I don't like the situation, but I can't control it. And so what I'm learning in this space where I am clearly out of control, I am growing. And I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good feeling or that it's even a fun place to be or a place that we should wish to be. What I am saying is it's inevitable at certain points in your life, things are going to slow down. You are not going to get your way, you will be disappointed. And the question isn't just what are you going to do? The question is, who are you going to be? And if you wait until that time happens, you're going to be like a lot of people, which is blaming everybody, frustrated, mad, and yet if ahead of time you understand this is how life is, and this may be the greatest tool for growth we have, which is inconvenience, waiting, delays, not getting what we want right now. Again, there's nothing wrong with wanting more, wanting better, but this is how we get there. We go through the in between. We go through the valley to get to the mountaintop. And I think if we're honest, if it weren't for that valley, we really wouldn't enjoy the view quite as much.

It reminds me of the road trips that we used to take as a family when we were kids. And there was no DVD player in the car. There were six of us, if you can believe it, Jeff. And we had to come up with our own games. And we're talking hours and hours and hours in the car. And it was painful, but that's all we knew. I think now we have the option, right? Well, you know, you can pop in a dvd, you can listen to your ipod or a podcast. Back then, there was no choice. And what it did do, and this is why I love this message, what it did do is we grew closer together. We talked more, we got to know each other a little more, we joked around more, we had more fun. And I think that's a metaphor for life and just waiting. I think that's a lot of what you're talking about here.

Yeah. Yeah. And I had a similar experience not too long ago when I graduated college, which feels not too long ago, but I guess it was probably almost a decade ago, and spent a year traveling with a band in a van. And there were seven of us, and we were driving around in this conversion van going to all of these different gigs for nine months. We were on tour, Went. Did three different tours, about three months apiece. And when I tell people I was a professional musician for a year, they think, oh, that's really cool. Then when I tell them, what that really means is I spent 12 hours a day in a van on the road and about 45 minutes each evening playing a show, it sounds a little less exciting. And what I had to learn halfway through the year is if we are, you know, if. If these long car rides are just the inconvenience that we have to endure to get to that one show per day, then we are wasting our time, you know, because it's not so true. Not worth it. But if this is all part of the journey and we can learn to. You know, I mean, this was my family for a year. We're my bandmates. If we can learn to enjoy and appreciate this. And, you know, and sometimes it was kind of boring, you know, there's. There is a lot of the United States and a lot of North America, that is cornfields. And you can only look at so much corn. But as you experienced, Ed, you know, like, you find ways to pass the time and it can be a lot of fun and it can be kind of boring times, but you learn things about each other. You learn things about yourselves that you don't learn in shorter amounts of time because you have to. And I think that life in many ways is like that. It's like that car ride where we're trying to get to that destination, that vacation spot, and we're ignoring all the things around us. And I think it can be difficult and it is certainly a discipline, but if we have eyes to see what's good about right now, what's good about the five blog readers I have, or, you know, the one piece that I got published two years ago, or, you know, whatever small accomplishments, and we go, oh, that's nothing. I want this. If we can learn to enjoy and appreciate what we have now, trusting that the destinations will come, that, you know, again, striving isn't necessarily bad, but we're going to enjoy this whole thing. I just think life's going to be a bit more enjoyable and you're going to be a bit more sane enjoying it.

So I've been nodding my head the whole time you're talking here because I'm in full agreement with you. But I also know what's going to happen after we are done here. I'm going to have the best intentions, but my bad habits and my old condition is going to kind of take over and I'm going to quickly revert to my old ways. So my question to you is, how can we make these ideas, which sound great, how can we make them a little bit more practical so day to day, how can we catch ourselves? How can we change some of this behavior so that I'm not saying overnight, but over time we can maybe pay a little bit more attention and start enjoying this in between moments.

Sure. Yeah. Well, I think that the short answer is you gotta build some habits. And my habits won't look like your habits. But I think that we need to create habits in our lives. Little benchmarks throughout our days that remind us that this is life, that all these small moments add up to something big. And as I mentioned, it's like getting up with my son at 6:30 in the morning and us playing together for a couple of hours while his mom sleeps in before my wife and I tag team and I go to work and, and she takes over. I spend that time waiting, you know, for what's to come next. You know, I've got all these emails to answer, I've got all this work to do, and I can, I can just worry all the way through those two hours and waste that time, or I can get down on the floor and play with him. And every time I make that choice, I go, wow, this is it. Like, this is. We know what life is about. This is the good stuff. So practically what that looks like is I think that we have to create habits that allow us to slow down and let go of control because we don't have it anyway and learn to be more grateful for what's in front of us. And practically three habits that I use on almost a daily basis. And then they change with the seasons and stuff. But these have worked really well for me because they're simple, they're attainable, and they create just enough space in my life for me to change my mindset, to just kind of remind me, oh, yeah, like I'm moving a little too fast or I'm not paying enough attention here. And those are going for walks, you know, going for a daily walk, you know, just like 15 minutes, that's enough for me to just take a break and re energize, refocus. I tend to do that in the middle of the day sometimes at the beginning or end, you know, but it just causes me to enjoy nature and what's around me. I'm not trying to get exercise, not on the phone, I'm not checking email. I'm not doing the thousand things that I could be doing. I'm not multitasking. I'm just focusing.

You're not listening to music, that's right.

No, no, no. I'm just looking at the, you know, the trees falling and the leaves falling off the trees or whatever. So going for a daily walk. And this is actually the more research I do. This is a very important habit for a lot of historical creative professionals, a lot of history's greatest leaders. You know, going for a short stroll at the end of the of your day or in the middle of your day is a great way to re energize, refresh. And it can be really good for your creativity in general as well as productivity. Going for a walk, making a meal with my hands from scratch. And it doesn't have to be the best meal in the world. And this is something that I like to do. I'm not great at it, but instead of microwaving something for 90 seconds, I spend an hour or 90 minutes preparing something which Just teaches me that some of the best things, some of the most delicious things are worth waiting for. And there's a lot of other things I could be doing, a lot more I could be squeezing into that 90 minute block. But the wait, the anticipation reminds me that there are things in my life that I haven't achieved yet, that haven't come yet, that I'm waiting for. And this whole process of preparing is good. And the thing that I'm waiting for will be worth the wait. And then lastly, I try to do this. I definitely do this on the weekends and I try to do this almost every night. I ditch my iPhone, I hide my laptop, I, you know, I try to spend time, not just spend time with my family, but be fully present to them. And it's easy to, it's easy for me to, you know, sit in the living room or at the dinner table or whatever and just, you know, occasionally check in on Twitter or see what's going on on Facebook or refresh my email one last time just to do one more thing. And the problem is I go from work to family work, you know, back to work, and it never ends. And as a result, ironically, the work suffers, as does the family time. And so it's kind of a lose, lose situation. And so when I ditch my iPhone, when I put it in a drawer, when I leave my laptop in the car for the night and just bully present to my family for those few hours at night when we have together, I tackle the next morning ready to jump back into work. And when I do that, nothing really suffers. You know, no email that I got at 9pm, can't wait until 9am to be answered. Granted, there are some exceptions to that, but for the most part, nothing's really suffered. And so again, those are reminders to me it's okay to put some things on hold to enjoy the people and things that, that are most precious, precious to me that are in front of me right now.

I love that. I love, you know, these are simple ideas anyone can do. By the way, I'm with you 100% on the walk and on the, the cooking thing. I happen to do both. I'm the cook here at home, so.

Yeah, me too.

I have no choice. We don't eat if daddy doesn't cook. But I will admit sometimes it becomes a little bit of a chore, especially if every kind of rush and there's a sports practice and. But I make it a point to at least two of those meals every week, really take my time with them and My goodness. Does it make a huge difference if you like to cook? Of course. It really brings the best out of me, and I think the meal tastes just so much better.

Yeah, well, I totally agree. And I think that, you know, the practical application, the universal application is to do. Do something creative, do something playful that feels like a waste of time. You know, it's a waste of time to spend two hours in the kitchen. Could just go order something. But Brene Brown talks a lot about this, that play, that, that frivolity, doing things that seem like, you know, seem unproductive are essential to our mental health and actually contribute to just an overall more productive lifestyle and just a healthier mindset.

Well, I'll add something more for those of you who like to cook. And I'll only admit this to you, Jeff, because I've said it to other people and it's a little embarrassing when they don't get it because they don't cook. But I actually enjoy what I call the hunt as much as I do the cooking. So I will make a list. I'll find a recipe. Sounds delicious. I will make my list and I will actually go to the store just to pick up those ingredients. But I take my time there. I browse, I smell the vegetable. I mean, I really get into this and I come home and then I prepare the meal. To me, it's got to be the whole package. And talk about a quote unquote waste of time, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I just spent like three hours doing this total wow. But it. It changes the whole thing for me. So I'm with you. Very cool, Jeff. This is. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate you coming on. It's again, a very important topic, very eye opening and inspiring. So thanks for sharing this with us. Where can listeners learn more about you and your book?

Great question, Ed, and great to be with you. Go to my blog, goinswriter.com goins is spelled like coins, but with the G G O I n s writer.com youm can find all the Twitter and Facebook links and there's a place to subscribe to my free email newsletter there.

Super. All right, well, listen again. Thanks so much and I'm sure we'll be talking again soon.

Sounds great, Ed. Thanks.

Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jeff Goines. And, you know, this is the kind of talk that reminds me why I love doing the show. I love doing the show for many, many reasons, but one of the biggest reasons is I get to benefit from this material as much as you do, even when I'm the one putting it together. When it's me delivering it, it's a great reminder for me and for my own life and my own business, depending on the topic. And when it's a guest, I learn so much from them. And I hope you've learned the same and gotten a lot out of this message that Jeff had to deliver today. Again, you can grab the show notes for this episode by going to b2b launcher.com episode 29 I also wanted to remind you that today is the last day to register for Close the Deal, which is my online training program for turning more prospects into clients. This is the first time offer this intensive five week program and at this point I have no plans to do this again. So if you'd like to learn how to close 80% or more of every project you quote, regardless of your experience level, check it out at www.closingmoredeals.com. if you enjoyed today's show, why not share with a colleague or two, send them a link, make it very easy on the Show Notes page. I have several social media sharing buttons or just email them a quick link. And if you're getting value from the show, I hope you'll consider leaving me a quick star rating or an honest sentence or two in iTunes. This really helps with the rankings in itunes, and rankings are the biggest way that people who haven't heard of the show come across the show. So if you'd be willing to do that, I would be very, very grateful. So this brings us to the end of the episode. Again folks, this has been Ed Gandia. I thank you so much for listening and I hope you have an awesome day. The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more more@B2B launcher.com.