#040: Finding the Thread That Ties Your Story Together

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey everyone, thank you for joining me for episode number 40 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. As a quick reminder, you can find detailed show notes for this episode by going to b2b launcher.com episode 40, the number 40. I am really excited about the show for today because even though this is not as nuts and bolts as we usually get, in this podcast, we're going to be talking about a topic that's extremely important and I want to set the stage for you. Freelancing is absolutely booming. I mean, all the numbers point to really the fact that the last time we saw this many people out on their own was pretty much pre industrial era, right before there was a traditional employment model back in the day when everyone was selling their own goods and services, you know, everyone was self employed. It was a very different economic model. Now we've now starting to enter kind of that, that stage again where more and more people are basically their own business, their own personal brand. And as a result, the competition has never been fiercer. There's, there's no doubt about that. In, in. I won't argue that point. However, while tens of thousands of independent professionals are out there fighting over $5 gigs, one thing is very clear and that's the fact that many freelance professionals are thriving in this economy. And you know, we could spend a lot of time dissecting what's going on here and really doing some thorough analysis. The reasons for their success vary, but most of these solo professionals have one thing in common and that's that they've really learned how to position themselves differently. So, so here's the thing, let's talk about it a little differently. If all you do when you're out there talking to prospects, when you're communicating your value on your website or at a networking event or whatever, if all you do is talk about your writing, in other words, how great it is, how clear and compelling it is, that sort of thing, you'll do what everyone else is doing. You're going to be focusing on the features of your work. In other words, the product, right, the product you sell and unfortunately the product, these features, that's what's being commoditized when the competition is as fierce. So what have you talked about something else. What have you talked about? Your unique perspective, your experience writing in a certain field, or your background in, let's say, the accounting industry or your 12 years of bedside nursing, that sort of thing. So that's the kind of thing that's hard to duplicate because you just added your own DNA to the discussion. You've added your unique story. And my guest for this week's show is Pam Slim. She is a colleague of mine, someone I deeply respect, and she's also the author of the new book Body of Work, Finding the thread that ties your story. And in this discussion, Pam and I are going to expand on this important idea and she's going to give you some food for thought and some. Some things to think through and to really start analyzing. And maybe these, I think these. These are the kind of things that are going to give you a good blueprint to. To start thinking about how you're communicating yourself, your value and your work. And I'm telling you, folks, this is the sort of thing that could really turn your business around. We could talk all day long about prospecting strategies and tactics, all that sort of good stuff. Very, very important, no doubt. But it all starts by how you position yourself and how you message that. So, anyway, let's get right to the interview and I'll come back at the end to tie things together. Enjoy. Hey, Pam, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for having me, Ed.

Yeah, it's great to have you. It's always so much fun to talk to you. And, you know, for people who really don't know much about you, and I guess I've really known about you for about four years now because my book came out maybe a year after your first book, Escape from Cubicle Nation. And I was really intrigued by your message. And we're speaking in a lot of ways to the same audience. People who are trying to leave corporate America to go out on their own and do their own thing. So what you have to say there really resonated with me, and I've loved your message ever since.

Well, likewise. I'm really glad to have you in the space and specifically talking to folks who are wanting to do freelance careers. It's the wave of the future.

It really is. It really is. All right, so tell us a little bit about your background and how you got here. Where did you come from?

Yeah, so my last real job was about 17 years ago. I worked for Barclays Global Investors, which is a financial services firm. And I was the director of training and development So I was always involved in training and development, really looking at the human side of business and always interested in that. I went on my own in 1996 and spent the first 10 years of my consulting practice really just being a freelance consultant where I work with all kinds of different companies, starting mainly in Silicon Valley because I'm from the Bay Area originally and worked on some larger projects with groups of other consultants. But really I just spent a lot of time building different programs and doing change management and executive coaching and really enjoying myself, but having large corporations that were my clients. And then eight years ago is when I first of all knew that I wanted to move to Arizona because I fell in love with my husband and we wanted to start a family and I didn't want to be on the road all the time. And I also was hearing all of these consulting practice, really just being a freelance consultant where I work with all kinds of different companies, starting mainly in Silicon Valley because I'm from the Bay Area originally and worked on some larger projects with. With groups of other consultants. But really I just spent a lot of time building different programs and doing whispers that were adding up over the years of people in corporate jobs who were saying, how do you do this? You know, like, how do you. How did you actually make the leap yourself? And so that got me interested in really just at first starting a basic coaching practice to help people, because I've been a coach for a long time, but just specializing and helping people to start a business. And one of the ways that I wanted to market it was to start a blog which was in change management and executive coaching and really enjoying myself, but having large corporations that were my clients. And then eight years ago is when I escaped from Cubicle Nation, so started doing that, began to work with a lot more. First of all, knew that I wanted to move to Arizona because I fell in love with my husband and we wanted to start a family and I didn't want to be on the road all the time. And I also was hearing all of these more clients and the blog got more popular. The blog turned into a book and then it's really expanded and grown into working in a lot of different ways, creating education program for entrepreneurs, and now leading in some ways, full circle back to my new book, which is allowing me to look at the big picture of the world of work, which has always been a fascinating thing for me.

Well, so let's just talk about that body of work.

Your latest whispers that were adding up over the years of people in corporate jobs who are Saying book just came out.

Tell us a little bit about the premise of the book.

How do you do this? You know, like, how do you. How did you actually make the leap yourself? And so that got me interested in really just at first starting a basic coaching practice to help people, because I've been a coach for a long time, but just specializing in helping people to start a business.

And how you got the idea for creating this work, where did that come from?

The premise of the book is that the purpose of our lives is to create a body of work that we're very proud of, that represents what we value, what we believe in, that solves problems that we care about solving. And that really means that we're living the kind of life and creating the kindness. And one of the ways that I wanted to market it was to start a blog, which was relationships that are relevant. So sometimes when we think traditionally about Escape from Cubicle Nation, so started doing that, began to work with a lot more body of work. It might be for an artist or a writer where we're only looking at the physical things like more clients. And the blog got more popular. The blog turned into a book and then it's really expanded and grown into working in a lot of different ways, creating education program for software, code or books or, you know, and that's definitely part of it. The creative things that you're actually making for a lot of your audience. For freelancers, it's all the projects that you do. Right. Like all of the different projects you have as a graphic designer or writer or whatever are all part of the body of work that you create with and through your clients, but entrepreneurs and now leading in some ways, full circle back to my new book. I think the bigger picture is if you're really conscious about it and you define which is allowing me to look at the big picture of the world of work, which has always been a fascinating thing for me.

Well, so let's talk about that body of work.

Your latest, the things that are very important to you, including the quality of your life, including book just came out.

Tell us a little bit about the premise of the book, how it is.

That you define success for some people.

And we might talk about and how you got the idea for creating this work. Where did that come from?

The premise of the book is that the purpose of our lives is to create a body of work that we're very proud of, that represents what we value, what we believe in, that solves problems that we care about solving. And that really means that we're Living the kind of life and creating the kind of relationships that are relevant. So sometimes when we think traditionally about body of work, it might be for an artist or a writer, where we're only looking at the physical things like software code or books. And that's definitely part of it, the creative things that you're out, especially in the freelance world. Some people will say that the only way you're a real entrepreneur is if you scale your business and take on employees and grow. And there are other people, especially in the freelance arena, who might say, you know what? The quality of my life is the most important thing. I want to care about what I'm doing. I want to have limited engagements with really actually making for a lot of your audience. For freelancers, it's all the projects that you do, right? Like all of the different projects you have as a graphic designer or writer or whatever, are all part of the body of work that you create with and through your clients. But I think the bigger picture is if you're really conscious about it and you define the things that are very important to you, including the quality of your life, including how it is that you define success for some people, and we might talk about this especially in the freelance world, some people will say that the only way you're a real entrepreneur is if you scale your business and take on employees and grow. And there are other people, especially clients, and it doesn't have to be really huge. So that's really the premise of it. One of the things that drove me to want to write the book is in eight solid years of working with hundreds of people, hundreds of clients, and helping to start up many businesses and talking in the freelance arena who might say, you know what? The quality of my life is the most important thing I want to care about what I'm doing. I want to have limited engagements with. With really key clients. And it doesn't have to be really huge. So that's really the premise of it. And one of the things that drove me to specifically about leaving corporate to start a business, I felt like I was beginning to see this religion almost of light and dark side of the force, that working for yourself as you want to write the book, is in eight solid years of working with hundreds of people, hundreds of clients and staff, helping to start up many businesses, and talking specifically about leaving corporate to start a business, I felt like I was beginning to see this religion almost of light and dark side of the force that working for yourself is the only way to be free and the only good thing and working for the man or working for corporate is terrible, and I don't believe that to be true. I think that's too simplistic. The only way to be free and the only good thing. And working for the man or working for corporate is terrible, and I don't believe that to be true. I think that's too simplistic. I think that if we get obsessed on just the work modes, we miss really what can be useful for individuals, which is choosing the kind of work situations that allow you to create your best work and also give you the kind of life that you want. So sometimes at different stages of your life, you might want different things, you might love freelancing for a while, and then maybe you go through another stage of life and you actually totally enjoy having colleagues having full benefits, having a predictable paycheck. There's nothing inherently good or bad about a work mode. And I started to get annoyed, frankly, at some of the rhetoric that we have that would just really simplify it. And it was kind of condescending. Only people who work for themselves are the good people, and those that don't are not. And I don't think that's useful because I care more about our overall ecosystem as a community, as our local communities and our national community and really our global community.

That is so true. And I got to tell you, a lot of what I publish, I think a lot of people get the impression that there is a dark side and a light side, but I think that's a result of just promoting success as a freelance professional. And people might deduce that, well, that's the only way to go. But, you know, my view is that very much like yours, we're living in a kind of a patchwork quilt gig economy, if you will, where I think professionals are having to string together a wide range of experiences and skills and aptitudes and projects. And that might involve, you know, at sometimes really the best thing for you is a traditional employment gig, right? You know, for a certain period of time, and then you have to turn that around and then maybe switch back. And I think a lot of people feel like they've failed if they have to go back to corporate or a traditional job temporarily.

Exactly. Yeah, I know. And I run into a lot of people like that. And that was really getting in the way of just helping them to garner the resources they needed or gain the skills or the experience or the confidence or whatever it was that was. That was lacking. I mean, there are some people who definitely know in the long term that they want to work for themselves. But the timing can be off, right? Or they might realize that they need to go back and maybe get some other skills or save up some more money or a whole host of different things. And so, yeah, having this distinction I found was not helpful. And for goodness sakes, I mean, as the person known as the escape from Cubicle Nation lady, you know, I'm like you. I've never said anything disparaging about corporate. I think all work is honorable. I really enjoyed the work that I did when I was consulting and I enjoyed the work as an employee. It's more what is the right fit for a given person. And certainly I know some people, myself included, where at this point in my life I really would not be interested at all in working for somebody else. I know that working for myself is a very best way that I like to make things happen. But if we can just, yeah, get, get rid of the, you know, the good and bad and, and just again, focus on what do people, what are they excited about creating then, then that's, that's where things get juicy and more opportunities open up.

So, so let, let me maybe talk a little bit more about that and then we can move into some questions about people who are already out there and they've decided this is where they want to stay, meaning self employed entrepreneurship. So in terms of people who are really on the fence, because I do talk to a lot of people who can move into some questions about people who are already out there and they've decided this is where they want to stay, meaning self employed entrepreneur. So in terms of people who are really on the fence, because I do talk to a lot of people who, they're not happy when they're in a traditional job, but then they're not happy when they're in a traditional job, but then they really struggle with making that transition. I mean, what would you tell someone who's not really sure, you know, all this sounds great, but they're having this chicken and egg scenario, really struggle with making that transition. I mean, what would you tell someone who's not really sure, you know, all this sounds great, but they're having this chicken and egg scenario where they can't make one work with the other one happening and vice versa. They can't make one work with the other one happening and vice versa.

Well, you have a couple options. And this is what I've seen with clients is on one hand I get like old school grizzled martial artist, which is sometimes to say, yeah, it's a lot of work. And part of what you want to do to test yourself and to. To push through it is to figure it out. Well, you have a couple options and this is what I've seen with clients is push through it. For some people that is doing the work as a side hustle, really making sure that they're building up slowly, some kind of a clientele to demonstrate that they're able to get projects and then build up their marketing system so they can get more referrals until they're ready to. On one hand I get old school grizzled martial artist, which is sometimes to say, yep, it's a lot of work and part of what you want quit or if people feel, and I understand this, that it's just very hard to do to test yourself and to push through it is to figure it out in both things at the same time. That's where they may need to really double down, really reduce expenses, sometimes make some radical choices for which can be really positive to reduce the cost of living. I know a lot of people who have moved from places like New York or San Francisco to much more reasonable places to live where they reduce the cost of living so that they can bank up some money while they do have a full time job in order then to have the time. And I call it being your own venture capitalist in order to develop your freelance business. Because I do understand that for some people it really is hard to do both at the same time. But the part that goes through it for some people that is doing the work as a side hustle, really making sure that they're building up slowly some kind of a clientele to demonstrate that they're able to get projects and then build up their marketing system so they can get more referrals until they're ready to quit. Or if people feel, and I understand this, that it's just very hard to do both things at the same time. That's where they may need to really double down, really reduce expenses, sometimes make some radical choices which can be really positive to reduce the cost of living. I know a lot of people who have moved from places like New York or San Francisco to much more reasonable places to live where they reduce the cost of living so that they can bank up some money while they do have a full time job in order then to have the time and I call it that is really difficult is if you look at depending upon how many years that you've been in your career, you usually when you're paid well as a full time professional, especially in A corporate setting. You work for many years, you've developed your craft, people really know you, they know your work. And working for yourself is a whole different ball game. And it often takes a lot of work to get your business foundation set up and your marketing systems and beginning to make connections. So it puts a lot of pressure on you. If you have the expectation, for example, that you're just going to quit your job and you give yourself one month, right? If you haven't been doing anything as a side hustle, if you just start cold turkey and then you expect within a month's period of time that you're going to be making the same amount of income that you made when you were an employee. Now, ironically, that's what happened to me. I was making more than I ever made from the very beginning. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was totally undercharging. And so still I made more from day one as a consultant, as I made as an employee. Now, a lot of it, I think, was because of the nature of what my skill set was. It was a very lucrative kind of profession of doing training and development, executive coaching and change management. It was being your own venture capitalist in order to develop your freelance business. Because I do understand that for some people it really is hard to do both at the same time. But the part a time in 1996 in Silicon Valley where there was tremendous growth and so there were just. That is really difficult, is if you look at depending upon how many opportunities everywhere. Silicon Valley itself is a place where everybody knows each other. And I got tons of referrals from one business to the next as it went. So it's definitely possible that. But I never, in fact, for most clients, I never even use my experience. I jump without a plan, without doing any side hustle, without even considering that I was going to work for myself and it worked out. But I also have a huge tolerance for risk and I had a very marketable skill at that time in a strong economy. So I think it's the classic dip, as Seth Godin would say. If any of you have read that book, if you haven't read that book and you feel like you're in that stuck place, it's really good. It's just a real short book, but it helps to kind of describe that period for anything that we're trying to do in life when you're halfway between things. And it can feel very frustrating. And I think either you make a decision where you put a finite period of time for yourself, where you say, okay, this is my goal. I need to book four more projects in the next six months where I'm working full time for myself. And that's where you can really go after it and push hard to see if it happens and if it doesn't. Nobody, I think, really likes to be long term in the side hustle model. It really starts to grate on you if you're just constantly working, especially if you have a family or you like to sleep and have other hobbies and things like that.

Oh, my gosh. I did it for a little over two years, and I was reaching burnout quickly, you know, by the very end. But I saw the. I saw the end. My company was about to get acquired. I knew about it, and I just had to hold off until it happened. But let me tell you, it was painful. It was painful.

It's. Right. It's very hard. And I have great admiration for anybody who does it because it does really require a lot of discipline and sacrifice. It really does it. You know, it takes up a lot of your time. It's funny, in corporate life, my side hustle was as a volunteer executive director for a nonprofit martial arts organization that I ran for 10 years. And I didn't even know what a side hustle was, right? That was like, almost pre Internet. So I had, you know, I'd work during the day in my corporate job, and then I would leave and go to take classes or teach classes. And the weekends I was recruiting students and writing grants and doing all the administration. But that was in my 20s, and it can be very invigorating. But interestingly, it's. When I turned 30, I think after 10 years of doing that, I really, really burned out. I actually got pneumonia. And that was a big epiphany for me, where I was like, I can't continue to do that. And pretty much after that point, I have never been able to work so hard again. It's like something snapped inside where I just. Just can't push myself to work that hard.

Well, sometimes it's those. Yeah, those signs that really. We need to pay attention because it's. It's a. That's the real sign that we need to kind of slow down and take a look at what we're doing and why we're doing it and maybe recalibrate. So. I hear you. I hear you. So one of the things that I come across quite a bit are people who are looking. They've been preparing to go out on their own, and they're strictly focused on the Mechanics of what they do. Right. The features of what they offer. The challenge is that there is a sea of writers already out there, a sea of designers, a sea of software developers. Come across quite a bit are people who are looking. They've been preparing to go out on their own and they're strictly focused on. And I'm curious what your take is on taking a look. The mechanics of what they do. Right. The features of what they offer. The challenge is your body of work, right. Over the past 10, 20 years, even if it's not directly related to what you're. The craft that you're now looking to put out there. What's the process or what would you encourage people to do when they're going to market? To look beyond just the core skills of writing, design, software development and so forth?

Yeah, it's immediately the thing where if you don't define it both from a branding perspective of differentiating yourself from a lot of other people, but also from a value perspective, if you're unable to show how you really bring something unique, that it's going to be much harder to be, to be getting seen and getting hired. I come from a perspective that there's a lot of opportunity and as I was saying before, a lot of the studies that they're doing of the economy are saying that freelancing is only going to be increasing as a lot of the long term, permanent jobs are going away and we're going to different models. So there is a lot of opportunity. But there are two pieces to it. One of them is I think it feels better and it will be more clear for you as a business owner when you're starting to really take some time to identify who you are, what's really important to you, what are the parts of your work that you really enjoy? Why are you passionate about software development or graphic design or photography or writing? What are the components of that that are really interesting to you and where it starts to move into specific parts for your marketing foundation are who are the kinds of people who you really want to serve? What are the kinds of problems that you really want to solve, the areas that you're really interested in and passionate about? And when you really make those links directly between everything about who you are, I call them your ingredients, all your different skills and experience and competencies and scars as well, some really difficult challenges that you. You've had. People have had really tough childhoods or they've had financial meltdowns or mental illness and a whole range of things that we as humans experience and Often we don't look directly at these experiences to see how they can. When we look at them in a certain way, they can really help to differentiate who we are and the kind of grit that we have and what we've developed. So when you do that and you really take into account all of the these different pieces, that really becomes a foundation first for you. Choosing what is that kind of work that you want to go after and I'm sure you and I probably say many, many times a day as we're talking to people about starting a business is you really need to define the characteristics of who are your ideal clients? Right. Who are your ideal client avatars? What's that kind of work that you might want to start with? It may not be something that you do forever, but how can you get your foot in the door so that you say that I write for nonprofit organizations that are mid sized, that are focused on global warming or whatever it may be. As you begin to define the particular kind of work that you do, that's often a good foundation to really get started. Those are the first pieces that you want to look at. I think when you are looking at your work holistically, those elements are also going to be part of what you use to tell your individual story. I may be unique because I'm such a people person, but let me tell you, when I'm looking to hire somebody, I actually have a perfect example. I had somebody here locally. I was looking to do a short term project around my book launch and I needed just some added muscle for somebody to do writing and some social media work. For the launch. I went on Facebook and asked about anybody knew somebody and somebody just commented on the thread. She was local so I googled her name and one of the first things that came up was social media stole my kidney. It was this really cool story about how she had met somebody on Twitter whose mom had been really ill. And this woman, Amy, ended up donating her kidney to this friend's mom through Twitter. She's hilarious. Yeah, it was amazing. Amazing. It's just this amazing story. And now she's become this huge advocate for organ donation. She's hysterical. She's a stand up comedian. She's also great with social media. But let me tell you, it was so interesting to hear about those parts of her where for me being a people person, yes, I care about her skills. About those parts of her where for me being a people person, yes, I care about her skills, of course. But learning more about her overall story was actually a big Part of what made me pick up the phone and hire her to do a project. And I think that that's one thing that we can't forget. You always need to follow through and be a master of your craft. I mean, that's of course, but learning more about her overall story was actually a big part of what made me pick up the phone and hire her to do a project. And I think that that's one thing that we can't forget. You always need to follow through and be a master of your craft. I mean, that's just a, a core foundation of what it is that you need to be successful in your business. You have to be. It's just a core foundation of what it is that you need to be successful in your business. You have to be committed to delivering excellent service and being the very best that you can be. But part of what I think makes you interesting is where you do share parts of your story. So a lot of those things you can get from. I mean, look at some of her ingredients. Stand up comedian, social media junkie, willing organ donor to a stranger. I mean it's just like, wow, it's a really great story.

Yeah, why don't we share that stuff?

I mean, be committed to delivering excellent service and being the very best that you can be.

Why are people reluctant to do that? And they keep using kind of the other feature like ingredients as a crutch.

Part of what I think makes you interesting is where you do share parts of your story. So a lot of those things you can get from. I mean, look at some of her ingredients. Stand up comedian, social media junkie willing organ donor to a stranger. I mean it. Just because it makes you vulnerable. I think everybody has a different scale of comfort with how much personal information to share. And certainly first like, wow, it's just, it's a really great story.

Yeah, why don't we share that stuff? I mean, why are people reluctant to do that? And they keep using kind of her.

She's a very out there person, hysterical, no holds barred, you know, shares other.

Feature like ingredients as a crutch because.

It makes you vulnerable. I think everybody has a different scale everything on social media that's one extreme. Somebody who's very extroverted. I think for folks that may not come from that particular orientation or communication style, they don't feel as comfortable. But I also think it's the way that we're socialized and a lot of how we're taught, especially groomed within corporate environments where it's really not appropriate to be of comfort with how much personal information to share and certainly for sharing a lot of results, you know, of a lot of personal, personal, you know, her, she's a very out there person, Hysterical, no holds barred, you know, shares characteristics or things about yourself because it can make people feel uncomfortable and you have to be careful a little bit, you know, in terms of laws and rules and everything in organizations, everything on social media. That's one extreme. Somebody who's very extroverted. I think for folks that may not, you know, it's. It's changing a little bit maybe because everybody is sharing so much on social media, media not come from that particular orientation or communication style. But I think what you want to think about for each individual as crafting your story, and this may be especially more applicable to folks who are writers, but everybody has to be telling the story of their brand is, you know, how can you bring out the components of yourself that are going to connect you with who your ideal clients are? They don't feel as comfortable. But I also think it's the way that we're socialized and a lot of how we're taught, especially groomed within corporate environments where it's really not appropriate to be sharing a lot of results of a lot of personal characteristics or things about yourself because it can make people feel uncomfortable and you have to be careful. She probably would have completely freaked out somebody who didn't have a sense of humor. Humor's a huge value for me. I love crazy stories. I'm a huge humanitarian and I love people who help others. So that resonates. And that totally drew me to her at the same. In the same light. It probably would have absolutely pushed a little bit, you know, in terms of laws and rules and everything in organizations. You know, it's changing a little bit maybe because everybody is sharing so much on social media, somebody else away from her. And it was Guy Kawasaki who told me that once polarity is good, you want to have people either really be connected to your message or really not. And often that's where you want to be using some of these ingredients. But it takes a little while to get used to putting a little bit more life and humor and interest. But I think what you want to think about for each individual as crafting your story, and this may be especially more applicable to folks in detail. I want to get clear. I've done a lot of work now with folks who are introverts. I've been doing some work with Susan Cain, the author of Quiet, and have really tuned into there's no one formula. It doesn't to a writers but everybody has to be telling the story of their brand. How can you bring out the components that mean that all of a sudden in order to be successful, everybody has to be sharing every bit of yourself that are going to connect you with who your ideal clients are? She probably would have completely freaked out somebody who didn't have a sense of humor. Humor is a huge value for me. I love crazy stories. I'm a huge on social media. But I would say as somebody who cares about story and branding, you do want to use enough elements to really connect with your audience and to be unique and compelling.

I couldn't agree more, Pam. The way I see it, I think in a way way we've kind of.

Reach parity humanitarian and I love people who help others. So that resonated but. And that totally drew me to her at the same. In the same light it probably would have absolutely pushed somebody else away from her and it was Guy Kawasaki. You told me that once polarity is.

Good, the craft level. In other words, I think you have to be good enough. Right. You have to be.

You want to have people either really be connected to your message or really.

Not yet the certain level of skill in your craft or you're just not going to make it, period. But beyond that point, it's really your story that's going to differentiate you. Right. I mean there's, there's just nothing else there.

That's, that's it. And often that's where you want to be using, you know, some of these, some of these ingredients. But it takes a little while to get used to putting a little bit more life and humor and interest. Yeah, it's the big, it's the big skill. It's, it's really the, the meta skill, if you will. I think of the, of the 21st century. Any, anybody in any profession I think really needs to have the, have, have the gift of, of crafting good stories. If you want to raise money, if you're in, in academia, I think detail. I just, I, I want to get clear. I've done a lot of work now with folks who are introverts. I've been doing some work with Susan Cain. If you want to have a Kickstarter project, if you want to get clients, if you want to go forward in your career. Everything is really about telling a good story.

So true, so true. So just to kind of maybe wrap up here, let's talk a little bit more about the book. So what's your Intention, the author of.

Quiet and have really tuned into. There's no one formula. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden, in order to be successful, everybody has to be sharing every bit of yourself on social media. But I would say, as somebody who cares about story and branding, you do want to use enough elements to really connect with your audience and to be unique and compelling.

I couldn't agree more, Pam. The way I see it, I think in a way we've kind of reach parody at the craft level. In other words, I think you have to be good enough, right? You have to be at the certain level of skill in your craft or you're just not going to make it, period. But beyond that point, it's really your story that's going to differentiate you. Right? I mean, there's. There's just nothing else there. That's.

That's it. Yeah, it's. It's the big. It's the big skill. It's really the meta skill, if you will. I think of the 21st century. Anybody in any profession, I think, really needs to have the gift of crafting good stories. If you want to raise money, if you're in academia, if you want to have a Kickstarter project, if you want to get clients, if you want to go forward in your career, everything is really about telling a good story.

So true. So true. So, you know, just to kind of maybe wrap up here, let's talk a little bit more about the book. So what's your intention for the book? Because I know you really put yourself out there. This is a great piece of work. And as I told you before we started recording, it's on order. I haven't read it yet. I'm dying to get it. But what would you like for this book to do?

What I would really love for the book to do is to first excite all of us to really care about our craft. To have really. My intention for the reader is that thinking about some of the freelancers who might be listening to this interview that you really think about, what do I actually want to create? What's going to make me feel really excited and proud to have created, what do I want my legacy to be taking the opportunity to really step back and look at the big picture of your life and to see what it is that you need to get done. But then what I've done in the book is to really lay out what are the actual skills that you can develop in order to get you there. I think there are some of the skills that we all need in learning how to collaborate and connect with others in a really meaningful, natural, authentic way. How is it that we can get really good at the craft of telling stories? How can we get very comfortable with uncertainty, as our mutual friend Jonathan Fields talks about? Right? I call it surfing. The fear is a whole chapter because being comfortable with the uncertainty that comes from working with yourself and juggling projects and dealing with difficult clients and everything that comes with being a creative person I think is something that's really a necessary skill. But in a big picture. Escape from Cubicle Nation definitely is a book that was very focused on people who were just wanting to make the transition from corporate to starting a business. For this book, I'm hoping that it also increases the kind of communication that we have in people of all different work modes and gets us excited about sharing our work with others. Not having such strong walls between, like I said, the good and dark side of the light and dark side of the forest that we begin to get excited about how we're actually all connected and contributing within our communities. And I look at some of the things that we do here in Phoenix where we have a very active co working community. It's so amazing to me about sometimes the volunteer projects we put together. We have a laid off Camp Phoenix that we've done about six times where everybody from startups to freelancers to people working in corporate jobs get together, volunteer to just put on a great conference for people who are looking for work. Local restaurants donate food, the chamber of commerce and local government gets involved in donating space. And I think a lot of this kind of collaboration that we can see is going to be restarting the economic engine that we all need within our communities and as I said, within our nation, but also just in the interconnected global world. I know that you work with a lot of folks from all over the world. When we really get things humming, then we have projects where we can hire developers from Estonia and India and China and begin to work with folks all over the world. That's just going to really get us moving in a good direction for the global economy. It's a big audacious goal, but I really do want to get the conversation shifted a little bit from everything is bad, things aren't the way that it used to be. What can we do about it? Okay, things aren't the way they used to be. They're not ever going to be again. So if instability is the new norm, then let's start working actively together in order to make things different.

That's fantastic. I couldn't agree with you more. We have to at one point stop complaining and just accept the fact that this is the new normal. And I agree with you, by the way, that I think this will be the way things are. I think that the real great thing that has come out of this over the last six years is that we've all been forced to become more entrepreneurial and more resourceful. Right?

Yeah.

And that is not a bad thing. I think we could all use that. I think most of us just got to a point where it was just too easy. And as much pain is, this economy has created the. There's no doubt that it has. In a way, there's a light side to this and a bright side that we can all learn from. And I think we have an opportunity to grow here. So I think this book couldn't have come at a better time. And I commend you for putting yourself out there and writing it.

I appreciate it so much. I'm really excited. I think we do have so much opportunity, and I am with you. We don't need to complain anymore. We need to work together and let's get some stuff done. We have some tools that our ancestors would be amazed at. Right? Like, let's use the stuff that we have.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Pam, where can listeners learn more about the book? Do you have a website dedicated for the book? Correct?

I do. It's@pamelaslim.com bodyofwork so that's where you can find it at pamelaslim.com I've been forever at escapefromcubiclenation.com so feel free to find me there eventually. This year I'll be kind of gravitating my online presence more to pamelaslim.com, but you know how it happens where you're kind of doing one stage at a time.

Oh, yeah.

Write the book, get it out there. And, you know, escape is still going to be a big part of what I do, but I'm also trying to take my own medicine and really consolidate, you know, retell the story about what it is that I'm doing now.

Fantastic. Again, Pam, thanks so much for coming on. Congrats on the book launch, and we'll be talking again soon.

Sounds great. I appreciate it.

All right, folks, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Pam. You know, she's an awesome lady. And since the interview, I've had a chance to go through her book body of work in a little bit more detail and tell you what I'm saying. Really impressed. I highly recommend the book. I think you're going to get a lot out of it. There's definitely philosophical, but plenty of nuts and bolts there. Plenty of examples and stories that I think you'll profit from. So check it out. And of course her book Escape from Cubicle Nation is also fantastic. If you enjoyed this episode, I would be grateful if you shared it with friends. And the easiest way to do that is just to use any of the social media sharing buttons you'll find on the Show Notes page. And that page is b2b launcher.com episode 40 the number 40. You can also go to b2b launcher.com love and that pre populates a tweet for you. It's easy way to share the content and also if you're getting a lot of value from the show, it would mean a ton to me if you'd be willing to leave me a quick rating or review in itunes. And I got a quick link link for you there that takes you directly to that page. B2B launcher.com forward/itunes so that brings us to the end of the episode. My name is Ed Gandia. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have an awesome day. The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of the book because I know you really put yourself out there. This is a great piece of work and as I told you before, we to be business Launcher. Learn more@b2b launcher.com Start a recording. It's on order. I haven't read it yet. I'm dying to get it. But what would you like for this book to do?

What I would really love for the book to do is to first excite.