#045: What Should Your Freelance Writing Contract Include?

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia.

Hey everyone. Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. As a quick reminder, you can find detailed show notes of this episode by going to b2b launcher.com forward/episode45 one of the questions that I get asked quite frequently by both new and even seasoned writers is should you use a contract when working with clients? And if you should use a contract, what should it include, what kind of language, what kind of stipulations, what section should it include, and should you write it up yourself? Or is it best to hire an attorney? And you know, these are just some of the questions I get. There's actually quite a bit to this area and I'm not surprised that there's a lot of confusion here. In fact, I don't have the answers. And even though I give some basic advice, I'm not an attorney. And I've been meaning to bring an attorney into the show to address these very specific issues. And I finally got around to doing that. Mark Moriello is today's guest and Mark is a serial entrepreneur based in New York and he is someone who's also been practicing law for over 20 years and because of this combination of entrepreneurship and law, I think he's got a really nice blend of skills. He's also been working with freelancers and solopreneurs and other self employed professionals for many years. So he understands the nuances of being a freelance writer, especially in the marketing arena and the challenges that we often face in the area of contracts and client disputes. In this interview he's going to go into quite a bit of detail in with some of the questions that I mentioned earlier. He's going to talk about the benefits of using a contract, what your contract should include, when you should use one, whether or not you need to hire an attorney to draft one for you, or if he can use kind of a standard boilerplate contract you find on the web, and then how to handle sticky situations like when your client doesn't want to sign it or they want to use their own contract boilerplate or anything along these lines. So there's some really good stuff in this interview. You know, this is something that really should take several hours to discuss. And honestly, I would still encourage you to discuss this with an attorney. But I think this is a good starting place for this topic and it will get you thinking in the right direction, give you some ideas and maybe answer some of your most burning questions in this area. So without further ado, let's get right to the interview. All right, Mark. Well, listen, welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. It's great to have you here.

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Well, it's, this is a, you know, we're talking pre show here about kind of the, the legal issues of running an independent business. And it's, this has got to be one of the things that I get asked about the most about. So I am so glad that you came on and I am anxious to, to see what you have to say and I know that our listeners will as well and they'll profit from this information.

Well, that's great. I certainly hope so. My clients, like your audience, struggle with the idea that or with the grit that is at the basic of any commercial activity. Somebody pays somebody else to do something in accordance with some terms. So solos freelancers tend to struggle with that idea. I try in my practice and I will try here to put people at ease with this because it is really no different than a hundred other things they're comfortable doing. And in a commercial setting, the context I will set for them may make that a little easier. I tell my clients there is no such thing as a legal problem. They are all business problems. So when you approach it from that point of view, it puts your head in exactly the right place, which is what do I need between my client and myself to have this be a good business relationship? A contract is merely a set of words that should be both the context, menu and method for having that take place.

That makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense. And in fact, I want to go back to something you said a minute ago, which was your clients and the people you work with, just so listeners have some context and they understand where you're coming from. Tell us a little about yourself and what kind of clients you typically work with.

Okay. I'm a serial entrepreneur myself. I have owned and or run for others about half a dozen businesses over the course of the last 30 years. I also took time to go to law school at night. I have legal training. I have represented people in that capacity as well. So that my work with small and medium sized businesses tend to be that as an advisor. It may include the basic good business practices as well as address where law and business intersect. Because in that body of Knowledge and issues. People do have to sort out some things, like a contract, where they are guided by agreements and regulations and things legal.

Gotcha. Gotcha. So. Which is great because you have an understanding of what we face every day. You know, you've been an entrepreneur yourself. You are an entrepreneur. And, you know, most people in my audience consider themselves to be entrepreneurs, even though we might run a solo business. So we have that kind of mindset, which is great.

They are entrepreneurs, or they look, I guess at least I'm gonna say more than half have at some time or another sat somewhere, got a salary, but are doing exactly the same work they're doing now. And the change took place because they realized they were better having their own destiny in their hands than in the hands of others. And there's a certain spirit to those who are willing to go solo and are more entrepreneurial in how they approach life. So I understand your client base quite well. There are people who really want to dance to their own drummer, not somebody else's.

Yeah, so true. So true. So let's start with really, the basic question, and just to make sure we get that out of the way, which is, should a business to business or commercial writer use a contract when working with a client? And if so, why would you say that?

Okay. Gentleman that I did business with years ago had a great expression, and he said, a contract. We enter a contract to put down in words those things we agreed to when we were still friends. And it makes a lot of sense because you could have met over drinks, you could have really gotten along. You could have shaken hands. And later on, when you're trying to sort out what you thought you said and agreed to, it would be very hard to do that in the absence of a contract. The other important element is that in all things commercial, you want clarity. You don't. Gray areas are not good areas. They do not help keeping clients happy. They do not help us manage our own boundaries and expectations and maintaining our own happiness. So in answer to the very simple question, should you use a contract? I recommend using a contract like Boeing recommends landing gear. I don't think there's any circumstance I can think of other than with an incredibly good friend who you trust with your life. Engaging in a commercial activity without a contract, it just. There's no really good reason to do so. If only that you were trying to be clear between each other exactly what you were going to do and exactly what they were going to pay for.

Makes perfect sense. And by the way, I love that saying about, hey, this is what we agreed upon when we were friends. I've experienced the same thing, and I intuitively knew this a couple of times where it's really saved my. But because everyone's happy at first, right? And you're happy to engage in business with someone. And if things do go south, and they sometimes do, people forget. People forget, especially in the moment of years later when they're angry and that's not what they remember. And people choose to remember what they want to remember.

And I'm not saying it to be cynical, and you characterize that very accurately, sometimes in the absence of a writing, are you really going to remember or what you agreed to, or what you thought you agreed to? And yes, the cynical view of that is when the disagreement arises, then people scramble for the point of view that's most advantageous to them. So what a contract delivers are words on a piece of paper, hopefully drafted with great clarity, such that the actual promises jump off the page and are not subject to a lot of interpretation.

So let's get into some of the meat and potatoes here and specifically what a contract should include, if you're a freelance writer, what your contract should include in order for it to be effective and to protect both you and the client.

Okay, so I'll give you the analogy of building something. You're a homeowner and you want a new kitchen to be built, and you'd have a contract to do that. You certainly wouldn't do that without a contract. So because your freelancers are building a project of some sort or or other, they have a client that is trying to get additional revenue by engaging and persuading those potential customers, clients that they have exactly the solution to the problem. A project is no different whether writing or building a kitchen. The first thing that a good contract, other than stating the names of the parties and identifying participants, has to tell us exactly what we're building. So even if we're building something in words, the scope of work, which is the term that we use in contracts, has to be crafted by both parties so that the writer knows what the intention of the client is and can deliver those specifics without, you know, with no gray area that you're going to, let's say, for. Let's just say you're going to do the sales pages of a website and it's going to be along the lines of consultative selling. It's going to have to describe the services of the client, and it's going to be of a certain length or certain number of pages. Think in by analogy Again, if you were building that kitchen, there would be 20 pages of plans and specifications that the person building it would have as part of the contract. So that scope of work, the two things that are very important about it is that it is a collaborative result of your conversations with your client, and that is extremely precise, that it's exactly what they want and that's exactly what you're going to deliver.

Gotcha. Makes sense. That's you have to have absolutely clarity, absolute clarity there.

Now, it will include and you know this space a little better than I do, but it's going to maybe talk to content, maybe talk to form, certainly talk to length. I mean, again, what are they buying that you're selling so that you know exactly what you can deliver and you're not delivering more than you are required to under the contract. So I like to refer to that as I do not want my, my clients to do work for which they're not getting paid. So anytime you're outside the scope, whether because somebody sent you an email and asked for something, anytime you're outside the scope of the contract, you're doing work technically you shouldn't, you're not going to get paid for you did extra. So we want it to be clear, we want all the elements there so that your blueprint is right in front of you and you can get to work and start to give the client what the client wants.

Okay.

Now, there are certain things in a Scope other than the basics that might apply directly to your client base, your audience, and that are things like in addition to length and content, are they allowed a certain number of revisions? After a certain number of revisions, is there going to be an additional charge for that? So again, that's what we refer to when we talk about scope. You're talking about the boundaries of the work. You know, it's very easy with products. I want to buy that Acura for X thousand dollars. It's a little tricky for a freelancer because this is kind of a moving picture, as you can see. But after a couple of these, this is something I would expect them to get pretty used to and understand much better, having gone through these issues a few times. The other problem with scope in most projects is it's amazing how often it starts to drift or change so that you need a mechanism. Client says, we're going in this direction. They have an internal meeting and now they've made a change. They have had a change in their mind about what they want to do. Well, how much of your work was already done that now has now changed. Do you have a mechanism to adapt the contract for a change in the scope of work by which you will also still get paid? Because as I said, I never want my clients doing work for which they're not going to be paid.

So basic scope of work, defining that as clearly as possible, having some sort of revision terms, what that would entail, how many would include what happens if the client requests more than the revisions that you are promising and then how you would treat out of scope work.

Yep.

Okay.

Mechanisms for payment. There are many. It's not sinister. There's a way to work all of these things out and not have an unhappy client or provider. That's the purpose of the contract, is to have an agreement that's taking into account real life and allowing everybody to win.

Yeah, I agree. One thing that I also include in my scope of work is a start and end date. So when, and I used to only include a, you know, I shouldn't say end date, but really the when I promised to submit an initial draft.

Well, there, there are two things in, in terms of timing which I, I actually treat outside of scope of work. To me, scope has to do with what, what I am doing in the project. Then there are two other things that come right behind that. One of the things is what, what does the client need to give me? Because sometimes, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't to get the finish work that they want. Because especially in technical writing, they may have to give me certain briefings, certain internal documents to allow me to be able to write what they, they need to help sell their product or service. So that is also going to be in the contract as an obligation of the client. In terms of timing, which is what, what you were referring to. There are probably several elements to the timeline and of course there's the one do by when. But that may include milestone dates on a more complicated project that needs some back and forth. So you may have to define waypoints where you check in with the client to make sure we're good with it. What I've done so far is good. Okay, next. And it may have just one of those. It may have several. You obviously have the cannot exceed by when date because otherwise, I mean, they have, they have their own timelines that they have to deal with on a marketing piece. That said if the client had to give you certain things to let you do your work and they don't make their dates, your contract should include a mechanism that takes that risk or delay out of your hands and shifts the responsibility to the person, the element of that that didn't get delivered to you should not be to your detriment. So there should be a mechanism there to either extend the time or certainly not to have it result in a penalty to the writer.

So one thing I do, Mark, and tell me what you think of this is I have a section called Client Responsibilities. That's very simple and it just details what you just said in terms of. Look, I depend on you giving me certain material in order for me to write this draft. And if, if you don't meet the dates that we have agreed upon, then I can't meet the date that I promised you.

It's essential to any freelancer's contract. And just like the scope needs to be very specific, the more specific you make, what you're requesting, what they must give you, and the by when they must give you, the better off you both are. Again, it's what we agreed to while we were still friends. So the more detail you put in it, people tend to look at it like detail is a nuisance. But I have found that detail prevents so many problems because it does two things. Number one, by getting the detail, you get very clear. The two parties of the contract are very clear about the promises they're making because you, you had to go through some back and forth to arrive at that detail. And the other part of having it is you're not arguing about anything later on. You hammered all this out already and it gets real clear. Oh yeah, I forgot to get that to you. I'm sorry. And you're not arguing about, well, you're late, so you're absolutely right to put that in. And just like scope, the more detail the better.

One thing I started doing last year is I started becoming getting a lot better about setting milestones and being very specific about who's whom, what on certain dates. And I tell you what, that's really made things a lot simpler for me and I think clients really appreciate it.

In again, in construction projects, even the not so complex ones, I mean the very complex ones use very complex milestones. But just having a schedule for completion the way you would if you were building a little something or other is what you're talking about here. And it just makes it better for everybody.

So we've talked about revision terms, we've talked about client responsibilities, and of course we've talked about scope of work. What else would you say we need to include in our agreements?

Obviously the neck, sorry, the next obvious one is the money. So I'm sure there's a pretty wide spectrum of how people get paid. But the basics, you know, what's the, the amount or the base amount that you're willing that, that they're willing to pay you for the scope of work you're delivering and then depending on the specific project, whether there are other types of fees that you earn. So do you get paid for client time? Sometimes you might, you might not. However, again, specifics are important. Does it entitle you? Do you expect to have three planning meetings, virtual or otherwise? Again, we talked about revisions. Is there a price for a certain number of revisions or per revision over the base amount of revision? Do you want to build in a hourly component to allow the client access to your time, but not to presume it's free? Some contracts are going to have that. Are there any kind of success fees possible where, you know, you get a basic fee, but if they, if you knock it out of the park, if sales go up or something, will there be a bonus of some sort? And are you reimbursed for expenses? And what types of expenses are those that you should not put out of pocket, or if you put them out of pocket, do you get return at the end of the, or, you know, along the way of the job? So those are the basic payment terms, the next part of any commercial contract. And then in addition to what those fees are, when will they get paid?

Gotcha. So when things are due, what happens if they're not paid on, you know, by the due date, etc.

Simple. One would be two, you know, I, I get a down payment and then I get the balance on completion and acceptance of the work and then everything in between that and many, many payments over a period of time. If it's a complex project or more of a retainer type agreement where you're, you're, you know, you're delivering six different things over the course of six months, something like that. So you want to make sure that your contract takes into account the frequency, the amounts and frequency of payment and in a way that works for you as well as for the client.

What about getting into. And I don't know if you're ready to talk about this part, but I get asked a lot about liability and indemnities and all that sort of stuff. Protecting yourself, especially if, you know, if you're afraid the client could take what you wrote and they alter it, they plagiarize somebody else's work and then they publish it.

Right. There are a few issues all bundled up in that and I'm not sure. Let me address the simplest one first. You want to make sure that the client indemnifies you. Meaning, hey, once I've delivered the goods to you, you have to protect me in the event of somebody being upset in some way about that, they sued you or, you know, they're. They're not happy. Let's give this example. I'm giving you marketing material. You put it on your website, people start paying you for your. What you said, for what I described your services, and then they say, I didn't get what I paid for, you lied. False advertising, whatever. I'm just the hired pen. So there are indemnification provisions in most of these contracts that take that into account. And in addition to that, however, knowing that we live in a litigious age, as a solo writer, I pick up the phone and I look at my trade organization. If I'm in one or I just go online and I look for people who sell insurance, liability insurance, around these issues. Because you, you can't be any kind of commercial enterprise today, in my opinion, and not have an insurance component. Now, that seems odd to some people because they. Well, I really can't. I mean, come on, what can, you know, I be sued for? And it can't be much, and I just don't see it as a high risk. And I'm going to tell you, I agree, it's a low likelihood of probability that that will happen. But there's one thing that most people do not understand about this. In the absence of liability insurance, if it does happen, even though you're not going to lose, I'm going to, I'm going to, let's say, you know, that you're not going to lose under the existing law. Just. It's not going to happen. You know, you didn't libel somebody or you didn't make a false promise. But unfortunately, you will have to defend that lawsuit yourself. The most important thing of having an insurance component to your business is when that occurs, that you get held or someone seeks to hold you responsible for something in a legal way, which is a lawsuit, that someone's actually paying for the defense of that lawsuit. That's what makes the insurance premium worth it, more so even than the fact that someday you might have lost a lawsuit. So I'm sure that they exist, and there's pretty much every kind of insurance does exist. And I highly recommend that in addition to having, having the client indemnify you, that you have your own independent protection for any type of commercial liability that your particular business might encounter.

Well, by the way, I did do an episode on this. So if you guys are Interested, check out b2b launcher.com episode 24, the number 24. We got a whole episode with a liability insurance professional on that very topic. So I'm glad you brought that up, Mark.

It's an important one. I don't care if you're a writer. I don't care what business you're in. All of my independent business clients get that same speech from me because they don't realize that most people don't realize that that's the real reason we get insurance.

Any other items, sections, or language that you feel should be included in a standard contract?

Oh, lots. But as you can see, well, it's, you know, contracts are pretty, pretty all inclusive. But, but if there was, let's say.

One or two kind of other big areas.

Let me just take a quick moment to think. Okay, there's probably more than I have time to go into, but two things that are important. Remember that I probably don't have to remind your people this, but you're expected to be delivering original work. And any good contract is, even if it's your contract, is probably going to include the promise that you're doing original work for this client. The other part of that that goes hand in glove with it is control of the work, creative control. So one thing that I find important to put in a contract is you're going to give a representation that it's original work. You're also going to extract a promise that they use the work as given to them without making any substantial change. Usually I see a mechanism by which you've been through the work together enough times that when you finally deliver it, if it's a sophisticated contract, I'd prefer to see that you've been over the work together, you're accepting it, and the moment you accept it, it's not going to be changed again because at that point you, the writer, lose control. And you want to make sure that for a couple of reasons, you want your work to stay intact because your work is your portfolio. And if they change it and they change it poorly, it loses its value to you as a portfolio. And if they made it shoddy, even worse, you, your reputation can suffer. So they deserve for the work to be original. You deserve for the work to not be altered unreasonably. The other thing that you're going to be concerned about, you want credit for it. So any credit line, any attribution that you want to bargain for, you want to make sure to have a provision in the contract that does. So you want a contract in the provision that allows you full use of it in your portfolio and you want it to be as unrestricted as possible. Now again, you're going to find in some sophisticated businesses they're going to want more control than you're going to want to give. So that's a negotiable point. But in an ideal world, you get full credit and you get full control of whichever parts of that are useful to you in your marketing, your own work. The other thing I would mention for someone who's very closely niched, if you're doing work for a particular type of business, you're going to, and this is going to get a little more to be a little more sophisticated of an issue, at what point you know, you're going to do a project for company A and find company B who may not be a direct competitor but is in the same industry and you, you're going to write something new for them, but perhaps having very similar elements. So you want to, if you see that kind of a conflict somewhere in the future, you may want to have elements in your contract that when you do a work for hire, which is what we're talking about, these are works for hire. The recipient of the work expects to own the copyright and to own the material for their own use. There are going to be times when you're going to want to negotiate either a limit in time to the use of that or you may want to reserve rights where you can use it in other forms without being involved in a copyright dispute somewhere in the future. That's a little more sophisticated maybe than the scope of this podcast. But I just want to make people aware that especially those who are doing the same type of work, often you at least want to think about that. And that's probably the kind of thing you want to think about with your own attorney. And one of the questions that I'll project that you were going to ask me is can you use off the shelf contracts or is it better to have an attorney draft your contract?

Well, you got ahead of me. Let's talk about that.

It's related to this issue because once you're in a more sophisticated contractual issue, now we are really in a province that do it yourself will take you so far. I am not telling people there's never trust yourself to find the right contract. I am not selling legal services. I am not even advocating that, you know, don't do anything without a lawyer because this is a changing landscape in the post legal zoom universe. That said, if you're, if you have a core contract that you're going to rely on over and over and over again in the work that you do, then I might recommend that after you've educated yourself by reading what's available from friends and, or online, that you may want to then take it and go to a lawyer and say, this is essentially what I use all the time, some version of this. What would you, what would you charge me to put together a template contract that I can use over and over and over again that's better than this one I'm showing you. If, if you're doing sophisticated work or, or projects that are tend to be bigger or longer, I'm going to say I think it's money well spent to have something that you can really go to bed at night knowing. It's a really good blueprint for a successful writing client relationship.

Yeah. Now that makes perfect sense. And in referencing that podcast episode about insurance, one of the things that that gentleman said is a good insurer, before they underwrite a policy, is going to want to see what you use to make sure that you're protecting yourself, because that limits their risk as well. So if you had something that was carefully designed for your specific situation, that can only help your cause from a risk mitigation standpoint, and I'll say that.

I'll turn it a little quarter turn, I'd ask the person who's using a do it yourself or one they put together themselves, how well do they understand the issues and how well do they think they've protected themselves with the document they're handing out? If they have any kind of, I mean, if you're not versed in the issues, and I wouldn't expect you to be, I mean, if you've been writing for 40 years, you probably know all there is to know in any contract. So that's different. But if your own personal brilliance doesn't include that you understand the promises, duties and responsibilities and that that are spoken by the language of a contract, then remember this is not a hobby. It's your business. So if it's your business, there are, there are in every business. We don't do all of the aspects of our business ourselves. There are certain people on the team that are tasked with the things we don't do as well as they do. That might include contracts. So it's money well spent. Especially as I said, if it's a template that you can use over and over again, you know, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you just have somebody bless that who you trust and respect?

So let's talk about an issue that comes up quite a bit, which is, you know, great. I've actually made the investment to hire an attorney to draft something for me specific to my situation, what I've encountered out there and so forth. But what happens when my new client refuses to use or sign my contract? They want to use their own.

Well, okay, it's, it's, there's, it's simple. That happens. And then the question is this. Are you competent to read their contract and will you understand it? My guess is it will be a lawyer drafted contract. So is this opportunity sufficiently economically robust to warrant you hiring an attorney to read their contract and negotiate a better version of it or one that you can live with? If they're telling you sign it, it's my way or the highway? Then there's a different question that's outside of the law that you might want to ask yourself. Is this going to be an ideal client? I am of the opinion that taking an assignment when my antenna has already said, I really don't like this company, I need the money, but I see all sorts of problems down the road. That's not a legal concept.

Yeah.

But it's a very important element of making a good choice for our business. I have found, I will say people are probably 90% accurate intuitively on this. And unfortunately they're accurate and they don't do what they're, they're in their native sense is telling them, which is I should pass on this opportunity.

Yeah, and you're absolutely right. I've been there.

We've all been there.

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Because what you've done is you've shifted the question into what we should be asking ourselves, which is something a little different. And that's something most of us, I think can do. And yeah, I've had to make that decision before. I've had to walk away from some situations because it just scared me. And I think you should, I agree with you. You should trust your, your instincts. So here's something that has come up before as well, Mark, which is the, you know, I understand all this, but at the end of the day, I don't have. If something were to go wrong. You mentioned the other, the other scenario where they go after you, but let's say that they don't pay you, the client doesn't pay you, and you had a contract and you think it's useless because you know what I don't have money to go after them anyway, so what's the point? What would you say to somebody like that?

I say two things. Number one, the fact that you actually showed up with a contract has diminished in part the likelihood that somebody's going to stiff you. In this sense, they realize you're not a hobbyist, you are a professional. You have a very well drafted document that lays out the responsibilities and duties that you have in exchange for the money you expect to receive. So on the one hand, that's a good reason to have a contract. One of the early things we learned in law school was there's no protection in the law. There's no protection under the law for the bad man. And this remains true. If somebody doesn't want to pay you no matter what, are you going to collect that money? Maybe not. Yeah, but that shouldn't change how you approach a commercial transaction. You should approach it as if the parties will keep their agreements, and if they don't, the contract will give you the relief that you seek. So depending again on the size of the commercial transaction, sometimes you can pursue under your contract that you get what you have bargained for. Not without some arm twisting, perhaps. I am a firm believer that that's going to be more the result of good communication between the two parties than it is because somebody put in a contract. Some real good enforceable language. Most, we are not trying to buy a lawsuit. We are trying to get paid. So, you know, I don't care what the contract says. That's at the foundation of that dynamic. I did work, I want to get paid. In the absence of a contract, though, I will say I think it's harder to get paid because what are you showing up? Even if you choose to pursue it, what are you showing up saying was the thing that your customer did not do? How can you demonstrate that in the absence of a contract, you will say, he said if I wrote this form, he'd pay me $100. And they will say, I said no such thing. Where do you go with that? So in answer to that question, you're still better off with a contract. And the better contract will likely produce the better result, which is you got paid.

This is fantastic. I think you've really simplified an issue that scares a lot of creative professionals, a lot of freelance writers. You've talked about it in a way that, that I think can, can give people a good starting point. And that was my whole intention here. And it, in fact, I know that we, I mean, we could probably spend another Couple of hours talking about this, but we do have to wrap it up. So I guess one, one final question would be is there anything that we didn't talk about, any parting thoughts or advice that you feel people should walk away with maybe enhancing something you've already mentioned or something we didn't talk about?

The two that I do want to just make sure I stressed enough is that you're very clear on in your contract on the rights you are transferring to the client to the intellectual property that is the result of your efforts. So you're not giving them more than they've paid you for. So again, specificity is important. What is the project title specifically so that it's different from other things you may have done for them or done for others? What is the category of use that you are allowing them permission in? What is the medium of use? What is the geographic area? What is the time period? You can have this for a month, you can have this for a year. Because I am telling you, as good a writer as you are, you're going to need the same, you're going to need the same words. I write too. So when I write my own content, I always go, that was perfect. Well, you in a work for hire environment, it was so perfect, now you can't reuse it. So yeah, you want to. As I said, especially for niched writers, you got to think hard about these issues and you need to claw back to the extent that you can that the intellectual property license. Let's see, let's think about it in those terms. I am licensing you. I'm allowing you for a period of time or for a particular geographic area or a particular medium that you can use this content anywhere else. It's still mine. So I just wanted to hit that distinction because you can sometimes bargain to not give unfettered rights. You want, you want to be responsible for your own needs as well. And again, this is a function of money. If they're paying you a million bucks, pretty much, I'll let them do what they want. But if you earned $500 and you got to do that again and again and again and again in the same market, did you give up too much? And what can you retain for yourself? The other thing is you must be clear in the contract that they don't get the right to it until you're paid in full. So if there's a timing to your payments, they have no rights in your product, your work product, until you have received the money. That's a very important part, should be in contract. Lastly, if you're paid in a series of payments and they decide to terminate the project for whatever reason, make sure you are entitled to keep the right amount of money depending on when the contract, the project was canceled.

Yeah. And those are things that I have in mind as well because it's from experience, I've found that, gosh, I think it's important to let them know who has the rights. And I have a kill fee provision in there based on a cancellation, which has rarely happened to me. But when it has happened, they remembered and they knew that we had an agreement specifically about that.

It's a huge difference because they're not upset by the fact that you, let's say you didn't have it in there. They cancel thinking, well, I just won't pay anymore. But let's say that wasn't sufficient. Now you're arguing, remember, this is not about a contract. This is about a customer, a client. That's a relationship. We never want to put the relationship at risk. Well, the best way to do that is have a clear contract where everybody really has agreed to all these terms. So when any of the terms of the contract actually occur in real life, everyone goes, yeah, well, that's what we said. That's what we said when we were still friends.

Well, Mark, this has been fantastic. I'm so glad we had you on. And where can listeners learn more about you, what you do, your practice? Where can I send them?

Well, that's a very good question right now because I'm in the process of doing a lot of rebranding. For now, I will just say I am very happy to get inquiries via email@markt online.net o p t o n l I n e.net and very soon there will be a resource for you to receive more typical information on being a solo or a small business that you might want to subscribe to. It doesn't cost anything, but for now that's the best way to reach me. The website will be coming and it will be@mycopartner.com Perfect.

And we'll make sure to include your email address and then your website in the show notes as well.

Well, I'm honored to have received the invitation and I really hope that at least we've, as you alluded to earlier, if we've eased the concerns and fears of your listeners. That was the purpose. It's not as frightening as people sometimes experience it.

Thanks again, Mark. You take care. Well, folks, I hope you walked away with a few nuggets from this discussion. And that this at least got you thinking in the right direction and given you some action steps that you can move forward with here in the coming weeks. I wanted to remind you that you can grab the detailed show notes@b2b launcher.com episode 45 where we highlight some of the key points we discussed today. And I also wanted to let you know that I just opened enrollment to my popular group coaching program, B2B business launcher. This is an intense 10 week training program where I'll personally work with you and with a very small group of committed freelance B2B writers to launch your very own writing business in 10 weeks or less. If you'd like to have a writing business up and running, a B2B writing or copywriting business, and possibly even have a client or two by the end of May, check out the program@b2b launcher.com info is in information. This program has an application process and I only have 10 seats available, some of which are already taken. So if this is of interest, make sure to check that out. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be very grateful if you shared it with friends. The best way to do that is to use any of the social media sharing buttons that you'll see on the Show Notes page. And if you're enjoying the show getting value from it, I would also appreciate it if you take a few seconds to give me a quick start rating or a quick review on itunes. And the easiest way to do that is by going to b2b launcher.com forward/itunes. So that brings us to the end of the episode. My name is Ed Gandia. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have an awesome day.

The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more at db b2b launcher.com.