#084: Michelle Ward on How to Make the Leap From Full-Time Day Job to Self-Employment

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now here's your host, Ed Gandia.

Well hey there and thank you for joining me for episode 84 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. As a quick reminder, you can find detailed show notes for this episode by going to b2b launcher.com Episode 84 I would say that one of the most common questions I get asked is how do I successfully transition out of a day job and into full time freelancing? The most common question I probably get.

Asked how do I get clients?

But I would say the second or third is how do I transition out of a day job and how do I do that safely? You know, I got a lot at stake here. I can't just quit and give this thing a couple of years. I have to bootstraps. How do I do that? I've addressed this question in many different episodes head on necessarily. But aspects of that question, many with specific examples from folks who have done it and how they did it. Specifically episode 82 I talked about your biggest challenge as a new freelance writer copywriter and what to do about it. Kind of the mindset and what you need to do to make that successful jump in episode 74. 10 things to avoid when ramping up your freelance writing business. So we talked about that. There's Don Sadler came into the show in episode 48 and he talked about how he went from being a laid off worker to eventually a six figure freelance writer. Katherine Messer, back in all the way back in episode 10 talked about her transition and how she had so much at stake as a well paid executive, but how she was able to make that transition successfully a few years back. And finally in episode six, which is the first part of a two part series, I talked about how I made the leap and how I transition in my own story. But this is such an important topic and I get asked about this so frequently that I wanted to bring yet another guest into the show. And I don't think you can really talk about this too many times, especially because you do you really want different perspectives on this issue. And that's what I'm hoping to give you today with my guest, Michelle Ward. Michelle Ward is also known as the When I Grow up coach. She's done this. She transitioned successfully out of her career back in 2008. And she has some very unique perspectives on how to do this, how to do this safely, how to get the support of your spouse or loved one in some really aspects of doing this well that we haven't really addressed in previous episodes. So if you're in this situation, you know, you want to make this leap. You're scratching, scratching your head, trying to figure out how the heck are you going to do this. I think today's episode is going to be very valuable, Very valuable for you. So without further ado, let's get to that interview with Michelle.

Hey, Michelle. Well, thanks for coming on. It's great to talk to you finally.

Thank you, Ed. I'm. I'm just very happy to be here.

I, as many of my listeners know, know this topic really well. I love this topic. I've talked about it before, but I'm very excited about talking with you and getting your views on this because this whole making the leap, making a transition, there are so many people in my audience who are facing this, and I feel like they need different perspectives on it.

Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to give it. I feel very passionately about this topic. And a big part of the work that I do is helping my clients safe, as comfortably and confidently as they can be able to give their notice, leave their jobs and transition into working for themselves full time. So I'm excited for the conversation we're about to have. Cool.

Cool. Let's start here. Give us a little bit of background. So tell us what you do, where you came from. Tell us your story.

Yeah. So now I am known far and wide as the one I grow up coach, and I offer dream career guidance specifically for creative women because that's what I am and who I identify with. And I've been doing that full time since March of 2010. But I started working as the one I grow up coach and early 2008, and at that point I was working as an executive assistant in a finance company. So I know all about the golden handcuffs. I know all about being trapped in your cubicle. But even before then, I was a musical theater performer. And so, you know, 20 years of my life from the time I was six until I was into my mid to late 20s, my whole goal and dream and career and life was performing. I went to nyu. I went to Tisch School of the Arts. I graduated with my BFA in theater. And it was just very, very devastating when I realized that I didn't want to be an actor when I grew up, quote, unquote. So I took my own time and path and exercises and figuring out what's next for me. What am I spending the next 40 years of my life doing before I'm able to, before I'm able to retire that I could enjoy? Because that to me was over and above everything else. I didn't want to spend 40 ish years in a job that I wasn't going to enjoy. I just don't think that's a way to spend your life. And so I set out to find something stable and grown up for the first time ever transitioning out of being an actor and just, you know, having day jobs and never having health insurance and you know, never seeing these mythical things like a 401K. And I found life coaching of all stupid things to want to do. But essentially I became the career coach that I needed at the time. And even though it was the opposite of what I was looking for, I couldn't deny the fact that being an entrepreneur fit my own lifestyle goals and priorities and values in my life. And I was passionate and excited about thinking of working with creative people through their career transitions. So, you know, the first thing I did to become the When I grow up coach was leave the job that I was at. And even though I wasn't fully detached from acting at the point that I got this job, it was my first grown up job as an account manager for a startupish sort of company. And on paper it looked like it was going to be a great fit and I could have been there for a long time. And in reality, my boss was verbally abusive and made me psychosomatic. And I hit my breaking point when I was heading to work probably about eight months to a year into the job and I had to run off the subway in New York City during rush hour to dry heave into the trash can. And I figured I was really sick. And I wound up going above ground and walking the 15 blocks to work. And I got my laptop and my BlackBerry and I told my colleagues, I'm gonna work from home today, I'm feeling really ill. And the second I left I felt fine. And that was my wake up call that I needed something to change. So when I found life coaching, the first thing I did was get myself out of that job because it was not giving me my nights and weekends, it was not giving me my energy and my confidence to do my. And I found the executive assistant position which was a much, much, much more conducive environment for me to launch my business and get my certification and work with Clients on nights and weekends and lunch hours, and I just put the wheels into motion to make it happen. So it took two years and seven months, but I eventually gave my notice in March of 2010, and I haven't had to look back since. Amen and hallelujah.

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, at least you had some very clear signs, right, that you're heading in the wrong direction. Some people aren't really sure. They just have a nagging feeling. But yours, it wasn't a subtle thing. It was very obvious.

Yeah. Yeah. Although, not to say the nagging isn't just as important. I think, you know, I think we know. My parents taught me about stranger danger in the 80s by what they called the uh oh feeling, which I didn't realize was something that they made up. But the uh oh feeling is just that sense you get that something's wrong and you can't put your finger on it, and you probably can't articulate it, and logically, you can't figure out what it is that doesn't feel right, but you just have that gut sense that something's wrong. And they taught me that when you feel that way, just don't ask questions and get yourself out of that situation. So if anyone that's listening now has the oh feeling, but can't quite logically put it together, that's enough to. To get out and find yourself a different environment to be in.

Well, let's talk about. So let's dive right in then. That's a good segue. And I want to give you kind of a typical scenario that I hear about a lot. And, I mean, I was there, too, so I'm very familiar with this. But I talked to a lot of people who are in a fairly demanding day job, so they work full time, usually long hours. They know they do not belong there. They don't see. They know they can't just make a transition to a different job. I mean, they might do that in the short run, but they can't see themselves continuing to do that. They know they want to go the freelance route. They love to write. They're really good at it. They know they could build a business doing this. They love all the aspects or all the benefits of this line of work, but they're not really sure where to start, how to go about it. So, I mean, what would you. How would you advise somebody like that? You know, how would you work with them on that? What kind of questions would you ask them? And we could take it step by step. That's a Big question.

But yeah, yeah. First off, if I could do a quick plug for my dict your day job course on CreativeLive, because that is, that's all of the questions that I would have someone ask themselves and all of the different mental roadblocks that we go through. And being able to at the end of that course have an action plan so that you know not only the month and year that you think you could give your notice, but everything you need to do to work up until then. So that's, you know, if we had 12 hours together ed go through that whole course. But the abbreviated piece of it is me being more of a hippy, dippy life coach than I thought I ever would be. I think the first big piece is that you need to have a really big mindset shift. And the mindset shift needs to be that you have a choice. And I think a lot of the times, especially when we're stuck in these jobs that just aren't giving us any sort of meaning and fulfilling and are very draining on various levels, we kind of feel, feel resolved that this is what grownups do and this is what work is. I know for me, my dad would come home from work every day and we'd ask him how his day was and he would respond every day. Well, it's called work because it's not play. But I guess I'll go back tomorrow because I have to. And so I think we've all been brainwashed into thinking, well, this is just what work is and this is what everyone is used to and I should just suck it up because there's nothing out there for me. So I think, number one, you have to get yourself out of that mindset and you have to. What I like to say is start suspending disbelief. Stop the spiral that is. I can't, I won't. This is impossible, it'll never happen. I like to call them all the vampire voices that are in our head because they suck the good stuff out of us. So stop those vampire voices before they start and just give yourself one day. One day where instead of the vampire voices taking over and you then giving up and abandoning your plan or trying to figure it out, you're asking yourself how. I've yet to work with a client that has found the what of what they wanted to do and then hasn't been able to find the how that works for them in the semblance of their grown up life. There's always a way to make a profit. There's always a way to work with clients. There's always a way that they're going to be able to be grown ups and entrepreneurs at the same time. And usually it's not an overnight thing. It takes many months, if not years. And if you. Again, back to the mindset piece, get yourself in the mindset of okay, this is a long game and what do I need to be putting into action now? What could I do every day? I'm a strong proponent in believing that baby steps build the strongest foundation. What could I do every day to just bring me closer and closer and closer and closer so that one day like I did, you're going to look at your bank account, you're going to look at your calendar, you're going to look at your to DOS for your business and say, oh, I think I could leave and be able to do it.

I couldn't agree more. I'm a big proponent of the baby steps idea big time. These are huge, huge steps. And you can't do this overnight, right?

Absolutely. And you only have so much bandwidth. I mean, I'm not, I wasn't someone that was pulling all nighters or getting up at 4 o' clock in the morning to do my work. That's just not who I am. And I knew that would lead to exhaustion and burnout. And so I think the two years and seven months it took for me to get my certification and build my business and really build the roadblocks that I needed in order to feel as comfortable and confident as I could to leave my job. And I'm happy to talk more about what that looked like for me, even if it was 15 minutes a day, even if it was, you know what, I'm going to write half of a blog post and just stick it in a draft. And that's something that, that just created such a strong foundation other than me, I don't know, trying to like press the fast forward button on all of my work and shove everything into a, you know, six month or one year time period.

Well, and I definitely want to address the whole bandwidth issue because I know that's a big area of concern. But you know, one of the things that I notice when I talk to people in this situation is they're completely overwhelmed. And it's like the paradox of choice. They have so many things they could do and they're trying to consume so much content and advice that they get overwhelmed so quickly. So, you know, let's say that I realize, look, this is probably going to be a three year transition for me because I can't just Leave my day job right now and my family depends on my income. You know, where do you start? So how do you put that plan together? And I know that's a big topic, but how do you begin to figure out what you do today that 15 minutes? Because that can't be like an ad hoc. I just pick something.

Yeah, absolutely. But it's funny though, because I also really believe in the fact that you need to get out of your head and into your hands. And the only wrong thing that you could do as a wannabe Entrepreneur Solopreneur in 2015 is to do nothing. And so you could have a really big list. And yes, there's definitely overwhelm and there's definitely some choice paralysis there, but if you just pick one, it can't really be the wrong thing. Right. It's better than not picking anything and going and surfing online. And I hear you in terms of the consumption that people are trying to read this advice and learn these things and just stop, stop it or limit yourself greatly. Because when you get out of your head and into your hands, as my client once said to me, and I stole that phrase from her because I love it so much, that's where you figure things out. That's where you're able to experiment. That's where you're able to see progress. It's a bit of a catch 22 because you're not going to know what's working for you until you do it. You could think about it for years and years and years, but until you actually do it, there's nothing there. With all of that said, I think that I like to talk about what I call phase one of our business, which is really what are the simplest and most cost effective things you could do for your business that will make the biggest impact and that looks different for everyone. I could rattle things off, but I don't think that it's just a formula that everyone could plug in. So I think it's getting that idealist down on paper, looking at all the to dos, the things that you think you have to do and just really prioritizing based on what's a need and what's a now. If something doesn't fall into a need and a now bucket, it could be a need, but maybe not a now. Maybe it's a now, but it's like a want or a should, you know, then those get pushed to the side. Focus on the need, focus on the now. What do you need in order to deliver that first product? What do you need in order to work with your first client minimally. And I think a lot of the times we build things up so that we think, oh, we need to hire this web designer in order to launch our business. And this web designer costs $10,000. And so, you know, it's going to take us five years to launch our business because it'll take us that long to save the money to work with her, and then we'll never quit our jobs. I have clients that have launched successful businesses through their own Facebook personal profiles. You don't need the $10,000 website. You don't need a business loan. You don't need, like, the vast majority of people don't need this sort of stuff. So it's about scaling back, Scaling back. What's phase one? And that $10,000 website could be phase two or phase three for you. It could be a great celebratory milestone. But you have to get real as to what you have to work with and what's going to make an impact for you now.

And so I like that, because you're encouraging people to take action. What about the danger of kidding yourself and taking a bunch of actions that, you know what? You are stalling. You're not knocking on doors. Even though it's been four months, you should be knocking on doors already, but you're still trying to perfect your logo or kind of think through this or that, and you're fooling yourself into believing that those things are moving you forward.

Yeah. Oh, it's so fun. I'm glad you brought this up, Ed, because every time I've talked about this topic with my clients, I ask them, do you know when you've crossed the line going from actually working on something legitimately to procrastination perfectionism mode? Because I think procrastination and perfectionism often look similar. So do you know? Do you know? Do you know when you've crossed that line? And I've never had anyone say, no. Every single person has said, yes, yes, I absolutely know when I'm doing it. So I think it's, you know, like you said earlier, when are you. When you're kidding yourself. And I think you need to be really aware. You need to be really aware. Why am I still working on this logo four months later? What am I really doing here? And what, you know, what am I afraid of? What am I avoiding? And you gotta get real with yourself. And again, have that mindset shift to say, you know what, it's scary to go knocking on doors. It's scary to put an offer out there, it's scary to publish your first blog post or, you know, put a picture of your product on Instagram, but, man, that's, you know, that's where all the goodness comes from. And that's when you'll really start building a business platform for yourself and then you'll be able to get out of your job. So it's tough because, you know, the perfection and the procrastination and, you know, the vampire voices in your head, they're there to keep you safe. So I hope that just acknowledging and recognizing the fact that you are doing something quote, unquote dangerous allows you to kind of go easy on yourself and just like, feel that career fear and do it anyway.

No, I like that. That's a great point. So let's talk about the whole time constraint thing. This is another issue that comes up a lot. I actually just talked to a few people last week. They were all in a very similar situation. Ed, I'm earning. And they all had a very healthy income. They're either the sole breadwinner or a big income producer in the family. They were working long hours and they recognized the fact that, look, you know, launching a freelance business is going to take time, you know, that. That I don't seem to have right now. At least that's the belief. So what would you recommend someone do when they feel like they have no time?

Okay, so first, the mindset shift and the semantic piece is that, you know, in this day and age of the Internet and smartphones and all of our social media accounts and notifications and text messages and blah, blah, blah, you will never find the time. The time will never be presented to you on a silver platter. You have to make the time. So I think when you shift things like that and you say, when am I making the time? How am I making the time? And you go to your calendar and you start looking at the things that maybe are on the calendar that you've said yes to, but you need to say no to, Right? By saying no to something, you're saying yes to to your business. So I know for me, when I was in the, you know, at a desk job, 50 hours a week and then working on my business nights and weekends, I said no to a lot of parties and happy hours and social commitments that I used to do all the time and now I didn't do them. So I gave that time back to myself. I think it's about very clear communication with your family and bringing your family into the part of this conversation and allowing them to help you. Because believe me, they want you to be happy and they want to help you. There's a whole section about I devoted a whole segment of my Creative Live class to support and how to get the support you need and how to have the conversation with your family. But you know, talk to them, open up the dialogue and say, hey, you know, would it be good with you guys if after we're done with dinner, I go into my office for an hour and I shut my door and you only knock on it if there's an emergency because I could really use that time to work on my business. And you'll find that you might miss an hour of the Bachelor or something, but you're giving yourself that hour back to your business. Whenever I talk about this, I tell a story of one of my former clients who I'm actually, she's leading a retreat this November that I'm speaking at called the Dream into Action Retreat. Her name's Paula Jenkins. She's amazing. And she came to work with me one on one. And when I read about her just work commitment and her family life, she had a full time job and a 3ish hour commute and a 3 year old at home. And she lives with her partner, but he's a chef. And so his hours that he worked were kind of strange. And I remember I got her questionnaire back and I went, oh my God, this woman's not gonna have any time to do any of this work. She's not gonna do her homework. I kind of prepared myself for that. And she impressed me from day one because she would come to every single session with her homework done and then some. And I said to her, how do you do this? You're the excuse buster in my book. Because you have all the excuses. You have the long commute, you have the full time job and then some. You have the toddler at home, you have the husband that is like working odd hours. How do you get this work done? And you know, another semantic shift. She's like, I just, I just do it when my kid goes to bed. If my husband is, you know, working, then I have the time to do my work. Otherwise I tell him, time to do my work. And she says it's the best part of my day is like 9 o' clock to 10:30 at night when I would do the homework that I had for you. And she would make that time almost every day, I think. So, yeah, she was tired, she was drained, it was a lot. She woke up very early, she came home late. She fed her kids, she wanted time with her family, but she still gave herself that 90 minutes. And that was really the best part of her day and kept her motivated and kept her moving forward.

Man, I can relate so much to that. I will say though, that I do think some people are, you know, get poop done. People, People know me. Like, I just, I'm a get stuff done guy. I just get it done. I've always been that way. So it's easier for me now. It's only easy if I'm. If I'm motivated. But you know what I'm talking about. Some people, they have the motivation, they have the reason to do this, but they still don't get it done. And the other thing I would add, I know what worked for me was that, yes, I didn't feel like doing it, especially at night, but I knew that I had to get through the first 20 minutes. Once you break through the first 20 minutes, it's like that dip and you're now in the flow.

Yeah.

And now you're okay. It's like going out to work out or going for a run, Right, Absolutely.

I use that analogy all the time too.

So I think a lot of people overthink it. They say, well, I'm looking at my life and I have no time. Well, you just got to dive in. You'll find the time and then just get it done. And you'll find the flow.

Yeah. And I think too, to tag on to that is you need to find what works for you. Because the example I just gave with Paula, she was working at night and it worked for her. But I just finished working with another client. Her name is Hema and she runs a company called Date Night Planners. I interviewed her actually for my dictionary day job course on CreativeLive. And when we were working together, she was side hustling for like three plus years. Very, very, very, very, very slowly before we started working together. And as we worked together, she was trying over and over to do her date night planners work at night. And it was not working. She's like, michelle, my brain is off. I am done. There's nothing I could do. I tried that 20 minute, 30 minute. I always say it's a timer trick, set a timer. And she's like, I can't get into it. It just doesn't work that way. But I noticed that when I wake up on the weekends, I'm really excited to get my coffee and sit at my kitchen table and get out my planner and take out my laptop and really work for a few hours. And so she got into the routine of doing her work from, I want to say, like 8 to 11am on Saturday and Sunday mornings. So she was getting tons of work. So she was working like six hours a week on her business, which was amazing, but she just wasn't really touching it during the week or if she was quote, unquote, working during the week. And I love this aspect of her business. She plans date nights for couples. And so she knows part of her business is going out to restaurants and bars and seeing concerts and just getting familiar with venues and places in New York City that she could send her clients to. And so she would say, well, the weeknights could be like my researching time, where I'm going out and doing my research by meeting friends for drinks and go to restaurants and seeing concerts or shows or whatever. So she's like, that's allowed. I could do that during the week and then just write some notes about it when I get home. But the weekend is really my time. And I think that the best way to go about it, if possible, is to try to make it a habit, Try to make it the same date and time as much as you can. So just like going for a run or going to workout, it becomes something where you open your eyes. Maybe you laid your clothes out the day before, you put your clothes on, you lace up your sneakers and you're out the door. It needs to be that automatic.

Well, I agree. I agree. I do think there are some legitimate concerns sometimes that I'm curious to see how you would recommend people address, especially with freelance writers and copywriters where, what about the, you know, the potential client call or interview, you know, where you got to write a success story for the client, you got to interview their customer, Things like that. When you work in an office, you know, people get really freaked out. It's like, oh my gosh, what if. What do they want to talk to me at 2:30?

You know, what am I going to say?

Am I going to say I can't because I'm working? What about those housekeeping things?

You know, I found out very quickly that when I started my site and I started my blog, and again, this was back in, like, early 2008, I put this burden on myself that I had, you know, I was establishing myself as a life coach. So that obviously meant that I had my life together and I knew all the answers to life and I didn't struggle with anything and I had no challenges and everything was perfect. And that got old extremely quickly. And after a few months I realized A, my blog was so boring even I wouldn't read it. And B, I was like, this is so dumb. Like, why shouldn't I just be honest and tell people that, you know, I'm in school, I'm in the process of getting my certification, I work during the day as an executive assistant. I have this musical theater background, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And once I did that, I found my audience and people were interested in reading what I was writing and people wanted to kind of see the story too. And I think that when I gave my notice to two years and seven months later, my audience was there, my people were there, and they were celebrating with me because I didn't hide it for that long that I had this full time job. And so I think when you're open and you don't have to be as open as I was, but I think you don't need to give people the explanation that you think you need to give them when you say no to something or you propose something else. But I know for me, like, no, I couldn't, no, I couldn't do a call at 2:30. I could only do a call during my lunch hour where I could go into a conference room and not log that hour as a work hour and go do it that way. Or I could do it when I was home at night or on the weekends and that's when I was free. So that is it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's great advice. And by the way, you're the first person I've ever talked to who, who had that as a suggestion. I think it's brilliant.

Everyone else wants to cover it up.

Yeah, well, I know I did, but I didn't cover it up. I just didn't bring it up. I didn't make it an issue. I was. Because I kind of took a similar approach. But for me, it just became so stressful that I decided, you know what, I'm just not even gonna make it an issue. And if I don't make it an issue, it's not even gonna come up. And I was shocked by the fact that nobody ever asked me, no, yeah.

It'S just, no, you're not free at 2:30. You could do 12 o' clock instead. I mean, I don't think anyone's gonn lot. Well, why Ed? Why can't you do two thirds?

Nobody did. Well, you know what I realized? They assume, well, wait a minute, he's got other clients. I mean, like, I can't assume that he's just waiting around for me. Right. So. Because that's the same thing now. I mean, I can't talk to somebody at 2:30 tomorrow. I already got that time booked.

Right, absolutely.

Cool, cool. So let's talk. And you mentioned this a little bit earlier and we don't need to get into a lot of detail here, but I'm curious if you have just the, a couple of key points on getting the support of your spouse or partner, because that is so important. I do talk to a lot of people. It's like, ed, this is what I really, really want. My spouse is not behind me.

You know, I think like I mentioned earlier, you need to go into the conversation knowing a. If you don't feel like you already have the support, it is because your spouse, your family, they're scared. They're scared. They're scared that there's not gonna be money. They're scared that you're not gonna be happy. They want to keep you safe. They want you to have the best life. And this is kind of what society tells us is what we need to be doing as adults and how we should live our life. So this looks very abnormal from what we're taught. Our whole lives is safe and secure and grown up, so to say. So I think when you come at it that way of, you know, my family isn't supportive because they love me, because they're concerned for me, because they're scared. Keeping that in mind as the kind of intention of your conversation, I think makes it much more of a nurturing dialogue and again, conversation. So it's not you talking at your spouse, it's not you saying to your spouse, well, this is what I'm doing and this is what I'm doing it. And whether you like it or not, it's making it a dialogue, it's making it a conversation. It's telling them what you are scared of. It's showing them that you're scared. Because I know for me, I would say to my husband, oh, I'm so nervous to do this. And he would say, well, if you weren't nervous, I'd be worried. So make sure you show them that piece. Make sure that they understand that you understand the risks and let them in on your action plan. Right. So this is really that phase one that we were talking about. And again, I go into it in more detail in my dictionary job course, but saying to them, here's my action plan and here's my milestones, here's my benchmark. This is what I'm planning on achieving before I quit my job. So for me, let's take me as an example. So for me, I had five months of severance in the bank because I saved everything I made as a coach into a separate account. And I viewed that as my ditch my day job account. So I essentially gave myself five months severance when I left my jobs. Like, okay, I'm gonna have X amount of money in the bank. I wanted a professionally designed website, which I didn't have for the first time. Two years I was in business, I did just fine. But once I knew I was leaving and doing this full time, I needed something where if I gave someone a business card or I told them the name of my business, especially when the name of your business is the one I grow up coach. And as silly as it is, you want to feel legit, right? So I had my professionally designed website, I had five months severance in the bank. I wish I made it more measurable. If I were to do it all over again, I would have made this, I would have quantified this. But for me, it was just like, I need to have a certain amount of people that I feel know me in the universe. Like, I need to know that people know that I exist. And that to me was just like a flow of consultation calls and enough clients signing up. And I did get to the point where I had more people that wanted to work with me than I had time to work with them with my full time job. So that was a big, that was a big piece. And I became an llc, which that, that legal piece piece was important to me when I knew I was going full time. So I was able to say that, you know, to my husband, these are the things I'm aiming for when those things make you comfortable too, that show you what it is. And we were able to talk about it from there.

And by the way, meaning, hey, once. So this, this is, this is my plan. These are the milestones I'm going to hit.

Yeah.

And you know, I guess you're presenting it as, you know, as I started hitting those milestones, will you, you know, will you recognize that kind of situation? Right. So you, so you see that I'm serious. I'm not just flaking out here.

Yes. And that's why sharing with them, obviously not only your wins and saying like, oh, babe, you know how I talked about having 5 months severance, I already have 4 months severance, isn't that amazing? But talking to them too, about the challenges, you know, if you launch something that nobody buys or you set up shop at a craft fair and you don't sell any soap. You know, not sweeping that under the rug or not trying to discount that, but having conversation with your, with your partner as to, you know, I'm really, you know, this is what I did to set this up. I thought it was going to be successful, but this is what I think didn't work. And this is what I'm going to try next time. And ask, you know, ask them for their support, ask them if you want it. You know, ask them for their comments, their thoughts, because they want to be part of this with you. And I think the more they see, see you taking action, whether that action results positively or negatively in your business, the more they're going to be sure that this is the right thing for you.

Yeah, I love that because it shows that you've been thinking about this, that you have a plan and you start.

That dialogue and that is so important.

Right. Without that, if you keep them in the dark, there's not going to be that trust.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Great, great stuff. Well, Michelle, you've mentioned this a couple of times and I do need to ask about it because I'm not too familiar with it, but your course on creative Live, so tell us a little bit about that and where people can learn more about it.

Oh yeah. Well, CreativeLive is an amazeballs platform. Everyone should go to creativelive.com and just watch in awe with all the classes that they have. But it's a company that broadcasts courses live online for free. But once the class isn't live anymore, it becomes a class that's in their archive that you could buy at any time and have just instant access to all the hours of content, the video that they shot. And then usually the teacher creates some sort of bonus that you get when you sign up. So for my course you're getting, I want to say about 12 hours of video content that goes through, you know, really making an actionable plan on quitting your day job and all the other things that come along with it. The support thing that we mentioned, dealing with, you know, vampire voices and career fears and what to do about it. There's a whole segment on, you know, the resources that I recommend for people just starting out who are on a budget. So it's all that good stuff. And above and beyond that, there's a 70 page workbook which is essentially the videos in workbook form as well as vouchers, so to say from companies Breather, bidsketch and Batchbook. So a CRM platform A client proposal and payment platform and a company that does like on demand office spaces and I think nine different cities in the US And Canada. So you're getting stuff from them that's like a $500 value for free when you, when you buy the course. So you could find that by going to when igrowupcoach.com and just clicking on products and you'll see a link to dicture day job and it'll take you right there.

Cool. Cool. We'll make sure to include a link to to that in the show notes as well. But I encourage everyone to check it out. I have not, I've only heard about it, but you know, based on what you shared with me today, it sounds fantastic.

Yeah, just don't get lost. Right. Like we said earlier about the consumption creative live because they have something, they have usually multiple somethings streaming live for free every day starting at noon Eastern. And so it's very easy to just be like, yeah, I'm going to watch this class and I'm working. Right. That counts. But no, no it doesn't. Unless you're actively doing the work.

Yeah, stay focused now. I love it.

Totally.

I love it. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for sharing these ideas with us today. I know this is going to be helpful for the folks who are in that situation and just really enjoyed our chat.

Oh, me too, Ed. Thanks so much for having me on.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview and and I wanted to remind you that you can grab the details show notes@b2b launcher.com episode 84 and I have.

Just one quick announcement for you today.

I am doing an online workshop this coming Wednesday, September 2nd on how to land great clients with a very simple one page sales letter that you can send out via snail mail, postal mail. So as many of you know, direct mail sales letters was one of the key ways that I grew my freelance business. And when done right, it's a strategy that can still work incredibly well today. You know, with so much marketing moving away from physical mail and into the online world via email and social media and so forth, there's a huge opportunity to get noticed when you use physical mail to reach out to prospects. But you have to do it right. My guest instructor is freelance writer by the name of David Lamartina. David has generated a very impressive $11,400 in counting in freelance work this summer alone by mailing a super simple one page sales letter to select prospects. And what I love about David's story is it, you know, this is not A well known freelancer, right? Because sometimes when you hear these stories, like, yeah, but you know, this person was really well known. They had this huge track record and experience and it was the name recognition, all that good stuff, right? This is the opposite of all that. David is a young freelancer, and when I say young, I mean he's, he's a young guy. He just graduated, graduated from college in 2011, and he's been freelancing for just three years. So we're not talking about some guru here. He's very good at what he does. But this is someone who relied strictly on the letter and not on, you know, 25 years experience as a freelancer. So this is not luck. This is based on something that really, really worked. Anyway, in this class, David is going to give you the exact letter he's been using in his campaign, which you're free to copy and adapt for your own situation. And he's going to detail everything he's done so far, including his exact process, his follow up email script, how he went about picking his prospects, and much more. You can learn more by visiting smarterfreelancing.com direct mail altogether, if you can't make it live, don't worry. If you register, you'll get the full recorded replay in all the class materials, including David's letter. So that's it. Go check it out again. It's next Wednesday, September 2nd, so don't miss it. Do it now while you're thinking about it. And that brings us to the end of the episode. Again, I'm your host, Ed Gandia. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you have an awesome day.

The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more at B2B launcher dot com.