#122: Why You Need to Start (or Tap Into) a Community of Freelancers

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there. Thank you for joining me for episode 122 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. Just a quick reminder that you can find detailed show notes of this episode by going to b2b launcher.com Episode 122 I don't need to tell you that freelancing can be a very lonely business. If you've been doing this for any length of time, you know that. You know, sometimes it can feel pretty isolating. But whoever said that the I never leave my house model is the best approach to being out on your own? The fact is that it's not the best approach even if you're an introvert. I mean, we all need a community of some sort. We still need that interaction with other people besides their family. And regardless of where you live, there are many options out there. There's never been so many options for connecting and collaborating with fellow solo professionals, and not just to combat isolation, but really to also share ideas, to get useful feedback, and to potentially get and give great referrals. In this episode, you're going to hear from Emily Leach. And Emily is a longtime freelance graphic designer, an SEO professional who understands firsthand the value of having a community of peers. This is one of her real passions in life. She is the founder of the Texas Freelance association, which is a nonprofit for freelance professionals, as well as the founder of the Freelance Conference, which will take place this September in Austin, Texas. And in this interview, she explains the different types of communities that are out there, which ones to consider, the biggest benefits of each type, where you can find them, what you can do if you live in a small town, and much, much more. So without further ado, let's get right to our interview with Emily Leach. Emily, great to have you on the show. Welcome.

Thank you so much. It is great to be here.

For people who are not familiar with you and your work, why don't you start with giving us a bit of background, Tell us about your what kind of work you do today and then maybe give us some context, give us a little bit of your background as well.

Well, it's always been an interesting story. Definitely wasn't one that I would have thought was going to be my story back when you graduate from high School. But nevertheless, here I am. I've been a freelancer now for, I don't know, going on 25 years, I guess, since 1992. I think I can do math that make it 2017. And over the period of all that time, that 25 years, you get jobs and you stop and you go back to freelancing. You do that for quite a while. And it got to the point where I couldn't do the work thing anymore, the job thing. And my friends began to call me genetically unemployable. So I kind of latched onto that term that was kind of fun. And I get lots of people say, oh, man, I love that term. And over this past couple of years, I really sort of. My heart started to go out to the really just vastly growing amount of freelancers that are struggling to make it work, that are, you know, looking for, you know, advice and tips and tools and tricks and all that to make their freelancing career in this lifestyle that they've dreamt of, work. And I've been able to make that happen. And so really what I've done is, you know, a couple of years ago, I think you and I talked about that I'd started a nonprofit here in Texas for freelancers called the Texas Freelance Association. Right about the same time, I also started the freelance conference because I really believe that one of the biggest things that's missing for freelancers is a place where we can all come together and learn from each other. You know, our peers, we freelancers, tend to work alone a lot, and that makes us work in a vacuum. I've never seen a whole lot of productivity come out of a vacuum. So I. I wanted to start a conference and a place where people could come together and do that, but also come and learn about how to do the business of being a freelancer. All you guys have your already have your skill down pat, usually are fabulous at it. Now let's focus on the business side. And through that process, the number one thing that I've learned that is the most helpful to freelancers is, is their community. And that's been harder than you might think to find and pull together. So that's where that's where I'm at now.

So. And by the way, just to clarify, in terms of freelancing, what kind of work have you focused on the past? What type of profession?

Okay, sorry. Yes, my. My profession was search engine optimization and website design, primarily WordPress. And so I got to work with a lot of. A lot of different. You know, you get to work with video people in that particular area. You get to work with AdWords professionals and you get to work with a lot of writers and a lot of developers. And so that gave me this really unique stance or opportunity to get to know a lot of the different industries of freelancers.

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's great that that is one of those professions where you do get to work with corporations. Quite a few different people. So let's talk about this idea of community. This is not something we talk a lot about here in the podcast, but I think I agree with you. It is important finding and participating in a community. When you are self employed, you more than likely work from home. You're kind of working in a vacuum, like you said. So when you talk about community, what specifically are you referring to? Are there different types? Give us your definition.

There is. There definitely could be different types. So community is pretty loosely defined, obviously. And so what I'm telling freelancers to do is to find your tribe, find your peers. And so let's just say you're a graphic designer. You may find a community of other graphic designers and that might be the best fit for you. But I would strongly suggest that you look for in your area a community of freelancers, regardless of their industry, because you'll get to learn, well, you'll get a bunch of stuff out of it, but you'll get to learn different tips and tricks from different perspectives of running a freelance business. But the other huge piece that I've watched, physically, personally watched, is when you get multiple freelancers together that are with that come from different backgrounds and different industries. They figure out very quickly that they can pass work off to one another. Very, very seldom does a freelancer never get to the point where they don't have extra work or they don't get a project that isn't in their wheelhouse. And for them to have their group of people in their back pocket that they know that they can trust. So let's say that you're a writer and you do get a graphic design project come in. Because that's what happens, right? You get a great client and they're like, oh, I need this graphic made. Can you do it? And you're going, I'm a writer. No, can't do that. Instead the conversation is, I don't do that. But I have one or two amazing colleagues that I'd love to introduce you to.

Gotcha. Yeah, that's so true. Now, you talked about the referral business development part of it, the learning, right? Learning from one Another, what other big benefits are you seeing when you see people participate in these communities?

Support. It may sound kind of silly that you would want or need support, but we don't, sometimes we don't realize how much we used to get out of the water cooler that time. Standing around kind of talking about what happened at home last night or, or even celebrating something. I literally got off the phone right before you and I got on this call with a colleague that called me and said, I so appreciate that I can call you and celebrate that this happened. You know, that I just passed this exam that now makes me certified to do yet another skill. And you know, we get to say yay. Or maybe we even meet up and go have a drink together, you know, and have a cheer. And sometimes I'll pull a half a dozen people together and even in my own house and say, hey, let's do this little thing I've, I call toast to life. You know, and everybody gets an opportunity to go around the circle and just say something that's really amazing that's going on in their life. And we go, cheers. You know, here's one for you. And those are the things that we no longer get when you don't work in, you know, that kind of corporate environment or even small business environment where you just have other people around you.

You know, one of the things I was telling my wife this the other day, it's, it's more apparent during the holidays, which is that there are two big things that I miss. And I think really the only two things I miss from working in an office. One was the, the kind of, the Christmas party thing, right? The just kind of getting together. And it wasn't just during the holidays, it was other times just kind of getting together and going out, a few of us out to dinner or having that holiday party or whatever, that was always fun. And then the other thing that I miss is just the friendships that come out of that. When you think about it, the older you get, the harder it is to make really good friends. So if you're self employed, where are you going to develop those friendships, right? I mean, you might get lucky and have good neighbors, but let's say you don't. Those real good friendships typically come from work, from where you live, or maybe your spouse's work. Right? Something along those lines. So you're really limited when, when you're out there on your own.

Absolutely, yeah. And, and like I said before, we tend to, as humans, we tend to not realize how much value that brings to our life. And as a freelancer, how much value it brings to our. Our everyday mental bandwidth and happiness has everything to do with our ability to. To make money and get projects and, you know, provide customer service.

Yeah, yeah. If you're not happy, you're miserable. That's going to show up. Right?

And it does for me, man.

All right.

So not a happy camper when I'm. Anyway, go ahead.

These are. These are great benefits. I mean, I think people understand this, that unless you're a total hermit, I suggest even if you're a total hermit, you see what the benefits are and you understand that. But let's talk about finding it. So I think it's a great idea. How do you go about finding a community like this?

Well, real quick, before we move into that, you said the total hermit. So my advice for the total hermits are that there are other total hermits that would benefit you. And so you may not benefit from going to an event with a lot of other really outgoing freelancers. You might, but if you don't, then don't be afraid to go find a group of freelancers that are kind of like yourself, that just want to get out, but they'll understand why and who you are, who you are. Right. So that's a big piece of it. And where to find these. There's a couple of different ways to do it. Of course. There's. There's online communities for different freelancers. Another freelance conference. We're getting ready to open hours up for people that attend the conference. I know Freelancers Union has an online community and those are great and they can work quite well, but I don't think that they meet all of the needs that what we're talking about with community. So I would strongly suggest that you go to maybe meetup.com and look for a meetup in town that might really be focusing on freelancers in general, freelance business, or even your specific segment. You know, I know that there's. I mean, industry. I know that there's some specific groups out there specifically for like graphic designers and for writers so that you can be like within your tribe, even within your industry. So those are the first places that I tend to tell people to look. And then Facebook is a great place to go out and just look at events and kind of just look at it and say, hmm, would freelancers go to this event? And if it is an event that looks like freelancers could go to, or maybe should go to sign up for it and go and then invite a bunch of your friends that are freelancers and then begin the process. Because some of you guys, I realize, live in small towns and it's going to be difficult to find your tribe, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist. You may just find a smaller tribe and sometimes smaller is better.

So in those cases, you're suggesting maybe piggybacking on something that's existing, but by bringing in the few freelancers you know in the area, then kind of having that platform already built in.

Right. That way you don't have to go out and build, like you said, the platform, you don't have to find the place. You don't have to take responsibility for what the content is going to be. You can, you can just go and enjoy, you know, possibly a wonderful afternoon or lunch or an evening event with your tribe.

I like your idea of trying to build or go to an existing group that has a variety of professionals in it, not just designers or not just writers. Because I do agree with you. There are so many more benefits when you have more of a diverse group than everyone doing the same thing.

There really is. It's almost when you go to a group that is, you know, all like you said, graphic designers or writers, so on and so forth, it is really hard to kind of stay within your vacuum. I mean, you're not as vacuum as you're not in, nearly as tight as a vacuum as if you're in your house by yourself. But you're not getting that. The expanded viewpoint of freelancing and business and even marketing ideas from different industries.

Well, I want to ask you what your suggestions or thoughts are when there is nothing that you or you haven't been able to find something like what you'd want. And maybe creating something might be a better option. So I want to ask you about that before we talk about that. I wanted to get a sense for the different ways you could participate. So, you know, depending on the type of meeting, I'm sure there are different options, but you find one, you show up. What are the different ways you can get involved? Because I also know that just showing up is really not the best way long term to get real value from a community.

Right. You do have to engage. I mean, that's the kicker that I know a lot of people don't really like so much. But that is the requirement is to engage and in order to get something out of it. But that doesn't mean you have to do it the first time. I mean, you may actually find that the first time end that you just, you know, if you're not the type of personality that likes to just dive right in and meet people. Maybe you're just, you know, kind of a little off to the side. That's okay. Be that person off to the side. Watch what's going on, watch what people are doing, listen to some of the conversations, even if you don't interact and get a feel for what that environment is. And then maybe either sit down with your friends or yourself, or if you're a part of one of the online groups that I talked about earlier, reach out and say, hey, you know, what are some conversations that would be had? And then the other thing is to really begin to learn. How can you create conversations that aren't just about business? Because what I have found with a lot of freelancers is as much as I want to know what you do, why you do it, and how you do it, it's just uncomfortable to walk up and say, so what do you do? Whereas it's a lot more fun to learn about who you are. And so I would suggest that you go to these events and forget about the business part of it, in the beginning especially, and just go and say, I'm going to go meet a new friend tonight. I'm going to go find a cool person. And I've literally gone to events and people say, so you know, what brought you here? I said, I wanted to meet a cool person. Do you know which. Which is the cool person here? And surprisingly, people laugh, kind of like what you just did. And they're like, well, I'm a pretty cool person. Or they'll say, oh, you need to meet Mike or Julie or whomever. And they'll take you over and introduce you. And there you go, you started a conversation. So that's if it's solely just a networking event. Now, if you're starting something on your own, it can be kind of tough to create a really solid networking event that lots of people will come to get the interaction started. So I would suggest that you create a networking event that has some sort of educational piece to it. And the thing that is the easiest to put together is a panel. So find a topic that is really useful to yourself, not to mention your target market. Other freelancers, like, right now, we're the beginning of the year, and so taxes, right? Everybody's already thinking about taxes. We're barely into the second week of the year. So what if you were to go out and find a tax accountant, a CPA or two, and just invite them to be a part of a panel where everybody can Come in and just ask them questions and they can answer questions. They get some exposure and you've brought together your target market of other freelancers and giving them some value and then open it up and people just start talking from there.

I love that. I think it's a. What a great idea. Because that. That's going to draw people for sure. As opposed to, I don't know, let's just get together. That's kind of vague, right?

And people are like, going, and if I really want to go, I've got, you know, coffee to make tomorrow. Yeah, late for that.

Yeah. Oh, man, that's a great idea. I do agree with you, though, that starting something from scratch may not be the best first option. And one thing that I like to suggest to people with similar things is, hey, don't reinvent the wheel. Even if you're thinking about starting something from scratch, go out and go to similar events, even if it's not precisely your audience. That way you can get a really good feel for what other people are doing and then take note of what you like and don't like about the events. And that way you can kind of.

Craft your own and take notes of what other people seem to like and not like. Ah, yes, because, you know, we're not always our best target market.

Good point, good point. So, by the way, since we kind of went down that path a little bit, I'm curious, what other questions have you found? This is a bit off topic, but what. What other good icebreaker questions have you found work really well that are not. Hey, what do you do? So you mentioned what brought you here. Are there any others that you use that you like that tend to get good response?

Actually, there's two. Well, there's one particular and the other one's a little bit riskier, but a whole lot of fun. So the one that I like the most is where is. Ask somebody where is the furthest point away from right here that you've ever been? And continue that question until you both find a spot that you've both been. You know, it might be down the street. It might be a bridge in Singapore. It might. You know, it doesn't. You didn't have to be there at the same time, but now you have something that you can both kind of relate to. Oh, wow. Yeah, I was there. I was in New York and I went to Central park and it was so much fun. I love these flowers and I love that lake. And. And now you have something to talk about. And when you go to have that Coffee next week or in two weeks from now, you have this launching off point.

I love that.

And you can always find funny stuff, right? What was your most embarrassing moment? That's a hilarious one. And especially if you can get it down to the point where a embarrassing moment that you both share. So I did this at an event one time. And so speaking of those of you that might be wanting to start your own event or, you know, stand up and maybe there's already a series of event, but you're going to stand up and host one. Then you can have everybody break up into groups of, you know, two people and have them go through this process, you know, ask that first question. And the second question that's a lot of fun to ask is the one where you try to, both of you try to find a embarrassing moment that you share. And interestingly enough, I've done it at two or three events. And the one event or the one moment that so many people share is peeing on themselves in first grade waiting for the teacher to say, you can go to the bathroom.

Yes, it's funny how we never forget that.

We never forget that. And it's off topic, but still it's hilarious. And it gives people something like, oh my goodness. Yeah, me and Michelle both have that same thing. We were both in Central park and we both love the azaleas. Azaleas or you know, whatever they are.

You know, one, one question I started asking recently that gets really good response is, what's been the best concert you've ever been to? Who and, and where and when. And it's funny, like I've never met someone who can't answer that. And the, the answers are all over the place. It's, it's really cool and it gets people talking. Oh yeah, I saw him on that tour too. Or whatever.

Yeah. Because I find once you start relating to people and building a relationship, a true relationship not based on business, then it makes the business part, it gives it a foundation. So you have a friendship in there somewhere and you have something that people are like going, oh yeah, remember, even if they don't remember your name. Exactly. Remember that crazy chick that I met at that event that did, you know, website design? What was her name? Oh, yeah, it was Emily. Look her up. She just had the best personality, you know, And I no longer, I haven't went out and looked for work and I don't know, it's been a really long time. Nine or ten years, maybe longer. Because I learned this trick of our process of making real relationships with people and having multiple cups of coffee or maybe even a couple of vodka drinks. And to the point where if I was running dry or something like that, I've got two or three people that I can call at any time and say, hey, I'm kind of looking for stuff in three months or a month from now. What do you got coming up? They're like going, oh, I'm glad to know you're free, because I've got this. And you become less of a commodity and more of. Really, I can work with you. You have time. That's what you want to change that marketing into. And your community gets you there.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Talking about time, since you mentioned that, one of the things that I know some people might wonder about is they. They might tell themselves, I really don't have a lot of time. You know, I'm really busy. So we all know that we make time for the things that matter. How do you make time for something like this? Especially if you find a community that you think will. Will be good for you, but they're meeting on a regular basis, let's say once or twice a month?

Well, it's. It's more of a mindset than anything else. It's so. To me, it's not so much finding the time. It's realizing that these relationships that I'm beginning to build is a time investment in order to open up time later so you can continue to work the way that you're working. And it either is or is not working for you, and I'm assuming it's not, or else you wouldn't be looking for additional ways or ways to change your freelance business. In which case it doesn't matter if you do this process or another process, you're going to have to make some shifts and add those events, those functions, those actions into your existing life. Because we, needless to say, we all have 24 hours, you know, of each day that doesn't change. There is nothing else that can shift. So you can. Your choices are to become more efficient in the way that you work, to open the time up, to simply understand that, hey, it's going to be super tough for the next 90 days or something, because I'm going to have to push in these additional events and actions in order to build these relationships. So then in 90 days, 66 months, however long that takes for each person is different. Right? That I will get. I will be able to have some open time and some open bandwidth in the future. But if I don't make this change, that's not going to happen.

I agree. I would go back also to something we talked about earlier, Emily, and see if you agree, which is sometimes when you start asking yourself, well, I don't know, why should I go? Or do I really have the time? Ask yourself, be honest with yourself. Can you make the time? Because it's not just going to appear. And second of all, is it the right group? I found that there are some groups out there that are just not a good fit for you. And you told yourself that it was because you really wanted to make something happen, wanted like the community aspect of it, but it's not meeting your other needs in other areas. I'll give you an example. Let's say that there's. That many of them are, or too many of them are complete newbies and you want to really connect with more established freelancers. So maybe one of the reasons you're not making the time is because you're dreading spending that time with people who maybe aren't going to fill that void. So at least that's been my experience. It just might be another reason to dig into to find out why you're not making the time.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I would suggest that it's probably going to take going a couple of times to really identify if that's what's going on or not, but absolutely. I've gone to many events over the years just like what you said, and for whatever reason, they, the people that are in the group, maybe they aren't newbies, but maybe all the industries that are in the group just aren't lateral to what you're doing. And they may be wonderful people and they may still be worth meeting because they may still know people that need, in my case, website design work or whatever. But in the beginning especially, you want to get pretty focused and then once you've got your steady stream of referrals coming in, then you can open up and start meeting people that aren't quite as closely related to what you. What your business needs.

Agreed.

So there's, there's an art to it, I have to admit.

There is.

Be prepared.

There is. Because I think some of these needs are going to be different. Right. It's the, the community aspect, the social aspect, there's the business development aspect, there's the, I think, connecting with people who challenge you and to think bigger and to take more risks. So there's all these elements and I think if only one or two are in place, you're going to start feeling like something's missing. So I think that's great advice. Just go to a few events and just make sure before you really commit long term that this group really meets everything you'd want.

Yeah. And one last piece on top of what you just said, which I love, is there's two parts of defining if it meets what you want is you have to be able to be really, really honest with yourself and understand does it really not meet what it is I need or is it really just pushing me outside my comfort zone and I want to quit doing that?

Yes, good point. You got to be really honest there.

Yeah.

So why don't you tell us about the conference? You told us a little bit about it when you first I asked to introduce yourself. But tell us about this conference you've created.

Well, I'm super excited. So the conference is the next conference. Our third year is September 7th, 8th and 9th. Primary conference is the 8th and 9th. We have a bonus day if you happen to be in town here in Austin, Texas. And the goal of the conference is it's industry agnostic. So we're not about. Just like I said earlier, it's not about your industry. It is about the business of being a freelancer. How to help you become more efficient, how to make you become more effective and get more work. And so because that's such a huge mission for me, one of the things that we're developing this year is I'm super excited to see how it works, is called the Gig Exchange. So we're bringing in, we're spending our year looking for businesses and recruiting companies and things like that that already have the work that are already looking for the freelancers. And we want to bring them to the conference and create this entire area where freelancers can get to meet these guys and expand that referral network of people. And so I just had this idea one morning. It's like, can I imagine going to a conference and walking out with a gig? Wow, that would be awesome. How do I make that happen?

Yeah, I think it's a great idea.

So we're giving it a shot. Let's see how it goes.

Fantastic. Tell us where people can learn more about you and what you're up to. Because I know you got several things you're working on. Seems like there's never a dull moment where you are.

I do a pretty good job of keeping it going. That is correct. So just about Me Personally, it's emilyleach.com L E A C H But most of the stuff that I do, you would find on freelance conference.com Excellent.

We'll make sure to include those links in the show notes as well.

Thank you.

So Emily, thank you for coming on sharing these ideas with us. I love what you have to share here. Some things I really hadn't thought of before, and I know this is a topic that, again, we haven't addressed before, but it's top of mind for a lot of people, especially those who have come from a world where they had all these things, they took them for granted and now they feel very isolated. And I know it's extremely common out there.

Well, and you're right, the isolation is the thing that people identify the most when they start getting into freelancing. But what I wanted to really, and I think we did a great job here, is what I really want people to also be able to get in tune with is it's more than isolation. As a freelancer, your business can completely change by engaging in and really understanding how to be a proactive and part of a community for other freelancers.

Right on, right on. Thanks for coming on, Emily.

Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun.

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