#124: Unconventional (Yet Highly Effective) Online Prospecting Ideas

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Well, hello there and thank you for joining me for episode 124 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. Just a quick reminder that you can find the details shown us to this episode by going to b2b launcher.com forward/episode1 to 4 before I tell you about this week's show, I wanted to give you a heads up about something that I am starting next week and this is time sensitive, so I wanted to put it here at the beginning of the show. I'm about to work with a small group of established freelance writers and copywriters to double their income in the next 12 to 18 months. Now, if your goal is not necessarily to double your income, but maybe you're interested in earning more and less time, we can work on that as well. Really, any combination of these results is doable. So earning the same in half the time, a combination of both factors, whatever is important for you, I'll work with you to make that happen. And this is no fantasy. I have a solid track record of helping talented freelancers get transformational results in a relatively short period of time. If you're already earning between around 30,000 and $80,000 a year or the part time equivalent to that as a writer or copywriter and you're tired of working your tail off and getting the same average results year after year, let's talk. Send me an email ed2b launcher.com with the words 2x coaching in the subject line and I'll reply with the details. Now for this week's episode, I am always intrigued by the many different ways you can find and land good clients these days. And at the end of the day, you know, when you think about it, there are only a few tried and true marketing strategies that continue to stand the test of time. These approaches When I say the test of time, what I mean is these approaches are going to continue to work despite changes in technology, evolving platform, what's hot, you know, what's getting all the attention right now. And these tried and true approaches include things such as warm email, prospecting, authority building, strategic networking, cultivating referrals, nurturing not yet ready prospects over the long haul, targeted direct mail, partnering with complimentary freelancers, those sorts of things that we talk a lot about in this podcast and in my training programs. But there's no denying that smart, creative professionals are finding some unique ways to drum up quality leads and build trust with good prospects. And they're doing this online using some very creative approaches and platforms that maybe a lot of people don't use for this purpose or aren't using the right way. And my guess this week is a perfect example of this and how you can use these platforms and online channels creatively to uncover great prospects and to land many of those prospects as clients. Her name is Kaylee Moore. She's a freelance writer and she's experienced great success as a freelancer in a very short amount of time using the techniques that she'll describe today. In this interview, she explains how she generates prospects online, how she builds relationships and trust by adding value, and how she leverages these wins to create a positive domino effect in her business. I think you're really going to enjoy this interview, so let's get right to that conversation. Kayleigh, welcome to the show. It's so good to have you here.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on.

Well, let's start with the basics. Right. Introduction. So why don't you tell us about yourself and specifically what kind of work you do as a freelancer, the types of clients you work with and so forth.

Sure. Well, I have been freelancing as a freelance writer for about 3 years full time now and I specialize mostly in blog content for software companies and e commerce brands. So some of the people I work with are folks like Campaign Monitor, AT&T Canva apps and software as a service type. Companies that you might recognize from online or from your business just kind of fell into this niche almost accidentally about two years ago. When I started, I didn't really have a specific focus. I was just kind of doing the thing where you take any work that comes your way and eventually found that that wasn't super successful for me. So targeted myself into this little niche and I have been loving it ever since. The business for me has grown about 50% year over year since I started and so just really enjoying learning a lot about the subject matter for the clients that I write for and working with fantastic people.

Oh, that's awesome. Don't you love it when things start coming together instead of living in this world of I guess I can do that or I guess I'll write for you. Right. Just being focused. It's nice.

Yes, for sure. I definitely was in that boat when I first got started and it wasn't super fun. So I'm glad to be a little bit more focused in what I'm doing now.

So you said you've only been doing this for about three years, which I guess in, well, I guess in freelancing years, that's a lot, but relatively speaking, not a long time. I'm curious how you got started freelancing and what kind of work you were doing before you went out on your own.

So before I started freelancing, I was in public relations for a nonprofit and I did that for about two and a half years out of college and was just kind of doing the freelance writing and some social media work on the side. But as time went on, I was getting more and more requests and you know, the work was good. So I was getting referrals for other clients and just kind of grew to a point where I felt like I could transition into a full time role. And I thought, okay, I'm going to give myself 18 months, I'll see how this goes. If I can make a livable wage, I will stick with it, but if not, I'll go back and find another job in PR or whatever it might be. But yeah, like I said, I've been doing this for three years now and just kind of naturally transitioned. I had a couple of initial clients that I met up with over randomly on social media and those relationships blossomed into referrals that helped me get more work. And like I said, it kind of organically happened within the software and E commerce kind of world and I had a little bit of background in the E commerce side of things from owning my own online business while I was in college. So yeah, I just kind of, I worked really hard. I did kind of a lot of things that went above and beyond and I think that really helped with the referral side of the business and just, you know, really shifted my focus to work with the clients that had the subject matter I really liked writing about. I think that was a big change too because, you know, if you don't enjoy what you're writing about, it's. It's not really something you want to continue doing and you know, kind of shows up in the work as well. So yeah, I just, it just kind of happened organically and I'm happy that it did.

Now, how much of an impact do you think doing this on the side while you had a full time job, did that have a big impact once you went completely on your own?

I think it did have a big impact because a couple of reasons it gave me a chance to kind of work up my portfolio and build up my skill set before I jumped in with both feet. It got me familiar with the business side of things, from taxes to all the things that go along with running a business. It kind of helped me get my feet wet with that and it helped me, I wouldn't say like, get a client base built up. So I had, you know, I wasn't just going in with one client where everything was really shaky and I felt really insecure financially. I was at a really stable point, I feel like when I made the transition. So I felt pretty comfortable and committing to it 100% and I was never really scrambling for, you know, to pay the bills or to worry about, oh well, I'm leaving this full time job with healthcare and benefits and paid time off and all these wonderful things. It was a really natural point for me to transition.

Yeah, I've always said that if you can do it, that's always the best way. Do it as a side hustle while you have the security of a full time job and you learn so much and you could, I think, do a better job because you don't have all this anxiety. So it's good to see that that played out as well for you. Now let's kind of shift gears a little bit and talk about the way that you've had great success finding clients. You've had really good luck finding clients and unusual channels online. So why don't you. We're going to dive deeper into this, but why don't you tell us like how this came about or what this is really all about?

Yeah, so when I started, I kind of mentioned earlier a lot of the relationships that I was making with clients were happening organically through social media. So a perfect example is one of my very first software based clients was Grasshopper, the phone company. They're now owned by Citrix. And the content manager there at the time was hiring freelance writers. And she and I just connected over Twitter. I had an e commerce store at the time, I was selling jewelry. And she just, I think she just randomly kind of came across it. So she reached out to me on Twitter, she said, oh, I love your jewelry. And I said, oh, thank you so much. You know, I'd love to send something your way just because you're a nice person. And she was like, wow, you know, and that's so nice. And so we got to talking that way and she asked what I was doing and I had mentioned the freelance writing I was doing on the side and she said, oh, actually, well, I have a really relevant opportunity for you, and I would love for you to kind of give this a whirl. And so that single relationship was really one of the. Well, I think it's the big foundation for me for a lot of other doors that opened up. And it was really just from being kind of a nice person on social media and doing something unexpected. And it really. From that, I think it was kind of a ripple effect for referrals out to other clients and getting some really solid examples to include in my portfolio when I didn't have a lot to showcase at that point. That was kind of a lucky break, I guess, for me.

Yeah, I love these stories of serendipity. And I mean, you're basically out there in a way, kind of buying a lot of lottery tickets, weren't you? Maybe you weren't doing consciously, but you were out there just talking to people, making connections and right place at the right time, right?

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that that's the case for a lot of freelance writers who are out there really putting themselves out there on these different channels and platforms and communities. They're making those connections. And we all know that relationships are kind of the secret to a successful business having connections, networking with people. If you can do that. Well, I think that that's a huge part of being successful.

And I think I want to underscore the fact that you never know where these opportunities are going to come from, because sometimes people think, oh, well, I have to connect with all these marketing executives and marketing directors and so forth. But, gosh, many times it happens serendipitously, like in this situation. And I've seen, of course, many times, and in my own business, when it comes from a friend of a friend, a personal contact. So you just really never know. And many times it's not from the sources you would expect.

Absolutely, I agree 100%.

All right, so let's dive a little deeper in these channels. You know, of course you talked about social media, but I'd like to kind of talk about some of the specific ones, because some of them are a little unusual, or at least they are to me. And then maybe how you've used that particular channel to find client opportunities.

Sure, I would love that. So there are a lot of different channels that I have personally used to get client opportunities. And for me, I have two different groups of clients. One side of my business is coaching, which I just recently introduced. And so that's kind of the. The target audience of freelance writers who are just getting started. And then I also target the people I write for. So that's the SaaS companies, the E commerce companies, people like that. So two very different audiences, but I'm using different channels to connect with them. And for me so far this has been really successful. So one of the first ones is like Facebook groups. There are several different Facebook groups that I'm part of and I think that these are really successful for getting referral based work, so recommendations from fellow freelancers and also for connecting with people who are hiring for the type of work I'm doing. And so the way I look for a good Facebook group is to really look for some active conversational groups where there are a lot of people responding and not just sharing their own content and no one's really interacting there. They're niche down to the audience that I'm trying to connect with. And it's got a lot of opportunities for people who are handing out, not necessarily handing out, but they are looking to connect people. So, you know, research from Freelancers Union shows that 81% of freelancers refer work to each other. And I have 100% found that to be true. Another 52% team up with fellow freelancers for different projects that they have. Whether they need overflow help or maybe they're not busy enough right now so they need to reach out to another freelancer to say, hey, I'm not super busy. Do you have anything for me right now? And Facebook groups are a great place for that back and forth for that quick response, hey, I need somebody for X job. The groups that I'm part of, I've seen a lot of that happening. So I think that kind of environment and that platform is a nice place to get connected with people who are looking for the stuff that you're offering, the services that you're offering, and who can match you up with appropriate projects as well.

So I think there's two categories, right? One would be groups where there are other freelancers and other potential partners and let's say designers and web developers and so forth who could be referral sources. And then the other would be once you know what your target market is, is looking for groups where your potential prospects would be hanging out or maybe people who are working with them. Right. And that's more of a direct channel.

Absolutely.

Okay, now I'm curious with that last group, how would you go about searching? So let's say that I my focus is healthcare because when I think of groups where my potential clients would hang out, I'm thinking LinkedIn. Right. Because it's more business. But when I'm looking at Facebook, if my target is healthcare, how would you even start looking for a group like that?

So the most effective way I found it seems kind of common sense, but is to find some writers who are in your niche who are doing the work you want to do and ask, ask them, hey, what are the Facebook groups you're part of? Most of the time, you're not taking work from them by joining Facebook group. So most of the time, they'll be happy to link you up with a few relevant groups they're already participating in that have some good conversations going. And so I make it a priority to always ask the people who are doing what I'm doing, whether I meet them through social media or at an event, to ask them those very specific questions like, hey, what communities are you a part of that are really paying off for you, that are really active and valuable for you as a freelancer? So just asking the people who are doing the work you want to do or are doing is a great place to start. Of course, you can always search for the groups with the right keywords through Facebook or through Google, but I found that the best ones come from asking the people who are doing similar work and going straight to the source for those recommendations.

I like that. And I would think too, if, you know, once you have a few clients and maybe you could. And you're connected with them on Facebook, you could look at their profile and see what groups are members of. Take a little bit of digging. But I would think that, you know, there might be some. Some potential groups there in that list. Absolutely. Private, right? Some. Sometimes they're private so you can't even see them.

But yeah, I think both of those channels make a lot of sense.

Okay, great. So Facebook, and it sounds like you've had some really good success there, making the right connections and of course, contributing as well, because these things are all about. It's not all about taking, it's about giving.

Absolutely. It's a great place for sharing and promoting your own content as well as connecting with other people and doing the same for them.

Yeah. And not to Shameless plug here, but now that you say this, I've actually seen this in many of my groups. So my coaching groups and the Get Better Clients Academy and so forth, we have Facebook groups dedicated to them. I've seen that happen organically. It's not that these groups are necessarily any better than anybody else's. It's just you get a room full of Ambitious freelancers together. And it's going to happen. You're right. It's like, hey, referring work to each other. Hey, I got something I can't handle. Let me know if you're interested. I could send you the information. It just happens.

It does, it does. Because we're only one person, we can only do so much work.

Excellent. All right, so Facebook. Tell me about Slack. I'm very curious about Slack. I'm not sure exactly and you may have to start by defining what it is I know a lot of people aren't familiar with.

Sure. So Slack is a basically a chat app where you can get out of your email inbox and have quick back and forth conversations with a group of people. Typically these are invite only. I mean they can be open groups but you have to be invited into essentially what's a chat room. And you can share images, you can even video chat now within Slack. But a lot of what I've seen from freelancers is that they are constructing their own groups and I've done this personally myself, building groups of like minded people who are either working on the same type of topical work or they work within the same industry. People are building these groups and they are not only referring work to each other. Like you said, you know, I'm too busy right now or hey, I'm kind of slow. Does anybody have an opportunity for me? They're doing those kinds of things, but they're also using these as places to get sources. So if for us as writers we often need sources and quotes for the things that we're writing, so they're going to these Slack groups to say, hey, do I have any content marketing experts who could give me a quote for this piece I'm writing for X. So it's kind of a twofold benefit from what I've seen in Slack. Not only is it a great place to connect with other people who are doing similar work or maybe even potential clients if it's in an industry type Slack channel. But it's a great place to, to work on building your authority too and sharing what you know and getting, you know, those organic links out there where you've shared your expertise on an article that someone else has written there, it's kind of a twofold benefit for these, for this specific channel, I think, and.

I'm sure that this will, this will change. And with these apps that keep evolving and changing the way they do things so we don't need to get down in the weeds. But I'm curious, I'm new to This, I download the app. How do I begin searching for the right groups that I can maybe request to be added to? And I don't even know if that's the way you typically do it, but can you walk us through that process?

Yeah. So typically, like I said, these are typically invite groups. So there are a lot of existing active groups already out there. So instead of building your own channel or kind of searching and trying to hop into groups that are already built, again, I think the best way to make good use of this platform is to reach out to people in your industry or fellow freelancers or people that you already know and say, hey, do you have any Slack groups that you're a part of that would be relevant for me that you could send me an invite for? Yes. And that, for me, has been a huge way to connect with not only people who are sending me referral work, but again, people within the industry that I write for who are constantly looking for people to fill roles, whether it's graphic design or copy copywriting or, you know, conversion optimization, those types of things. They're using these channels as a sounding board because a lot of us are working from home and we don't have co workers. So they're. They're turning the Slack channel kind of into this virtual water cooler.

Yeah. And it sounds. Tell me if this is accurate, but it sounds much more social and organic than, say, a Facebook group or even Twitter.

Absolutely. Because there's a lot less noise. These are very almost curated groups where you have a very specific group of people who are coming together to share one type of information, whether it's handing a person for X or. Can I get a quote for this article I'm writing? There's a lot less noise. There's not that there is a stream of activity, but it's not puppy pictures or all the other things that you get on social media.

Yeah. I would miss the puppy pictures.

I know. I love those. I would miss those, too.

All right, so Slack, definitely one to look into. I can definitely see the potential there. One thing too that I love about this is specifically with Slack, is it doesn't feel. Because it is, that virtual water cooler is. Is spammy and is crowded and like you said, is noisy at some of these other channels that are, you know, you typically see that kind of activity and people just doing stupid things to try to get business or try to promote themselves.

Right. And oftentimes if people do that, if it's somebody else's channel, they'll simply get removed from the group. So Again, there's a lot more control on a platform like that.

All right, so tell me about this next one, Reddit.

So Reddit I use for the coaching and freelancing side of my business. And I also use it because, again, I don't have co workers and sometimes I just need a little bit of human interaction. And Reddit forums are a great place for that because everything is divided down into what they call threads. So they're subcategories, essentially. So some of my favorite threads on Reddit are like the freelance writers one, the one for copywriters. It's a lot of people coming together to share interesting articles and funny things and to ask questions and kind of troubleshoot through issues. But in this forum type space, and it's very bare bones, no frills, it's quick and easy to use. And I think the only thing to really be wary of with Reddit is that sometimes people get pretty brave behind their username or behind their keyboard. So sometimes it can be a little bit harsher than platforms that have more public visibility like Facebook or Twitter, places like that.

Okay, I'm curious as to when people join these groups. I think one of the tendencies is what am I supposed to do? Everyone feels like they're supposed to do something to try to get business. If I'm not actively soliciting business, this is not going to work for me. General advice with all of these that we've talked about so far in terms of behavior and maybe protocols and things you should avoid and maybe do, that might sound counterintuitive.

I think a good rule of thumb is just to kind of remember that all of these platforms are essentially a cocktail party. So it is a public space. So you have to be mindful of what you're saying and how people will react. And, you know, nobody wants to talk to the person at the cocktail party who's just going on and on about themselves all the time. So it's again, about being a social interactor in these places. And as much as you can share your own insight and the things that you've learned, the blog posts you've written, you also want to answer questions without being promotional and, you know, just kind of participate and see so that you're not always being a megaphone promoting your own things, you want to shine a spotlight on other people as well and just kind of be a good conversationalist, I guess is a nice way to put it.

Yeah, which really speaks to the fact that these things happen indirectly. So sometimes trying can work against you. Sometimes you don't need to try as hard. Right. It's just being a good person, just sharing and being helpful. In other words, giving. I mean, I think this is common sense. It's interesting when we're in a comfortable environment, but when we're in a new environment or an uncomfortable environment, what I find is people start acting strangely.

That is true.

Okay, so let's talk about this next one. Inbound.org?

Yeah, so inbound is similar to Reddit in that it's also a forum, but it's a little bit more geared towards content marketing professionals. So this is a place that I go for a lot of question asking and gathering answers and working through kind of the nuances of freelancing or writing or all the things that go along with the type of work that I do. The thing I really like about Inbound is that they have this Ask Inbound feature where you can go there and pose questions. And it's a really active space for people who will take the time to provide really thoughtful answers. And there's a lot of active conversation there that I get a lot of value out of. So, again, I try to give back there and answer helpfully when I can. And then I also go there to ask my own questions and to use it as a sounding board, which is kind of the same thing for Reddit, but this one, I feel like, is a little bit more polished and professional. It's not quite. It's not quite as anonymous either as Reddit is.

So definitely very relevant for content marketing writers and professionals in the group, which.

Is awesome, for sure.

Lots of listeners fall into that category. Okay. And then finally. Well, maybe not finally, but let's talk about Twitter, because I think it's. It's one that's overlooked in so many different ways, but I'd like to hear how you've used it.

Twitter is probably the number one tool I've used for making connections and opening doors for new opportunities. Twitter is the way that I landed a contributor position with Entrepreneur magazine. Over the course of several weeks, I just kind of built up back and forth with one of the editors there. And then it was, you know, very organic and natural for me to make the ask to say, hey, you know, you know me from these conversations that we've had. I had a couple ideas for stories. Would that be okay if I sent them your way? And immediately he was like, oh, yeah, of course. Just send them over. Here's my email. Pitch freely. So by the end of the week, you know, just from building a relationship with somebody on Twitter and not asking for something right away, that kind of naturally opened a door. And I again, I think that that's a testament for especially how Twitter can be used to build relationships with people and connect you with people that you'd never normally have the chance to get face time with. So I make Twitter a huge priority for my business. Just going back and forth with people on almost a daily basis. And again, not always just sharing the content that I'm writing and being that personal megaphone for myself, but going back and forth with people and connecting with the folks that I would maybe like to work with or that I admire or who are doing similar work to what I'm doing in building those connections. I'm not making a hard sales pitch. You know, I'm not saying, hey, hire me, but I am getting back and forth with these people and eventually building relationships over time in a very natural way.

Now, I know that obviously once you engage with somebody, it could take many different forms, but I'm curious about those. How do you spark some sort of dialogue or how do you spark kind of a back and forth? Are there things you tend to do that will work?

Well, I think just responding to the things that people are sharing, whether it's an article, taking the time to read the article and then thoughtfully respond, you know, with the limited characters that you have. So many people don't do that. They just go to Twitter and they share their own things and they don't do the back and forth. So when somebody takes the time to to do that and not make an ask right away, that really stands out. And I don't know how long that will be the case. I don't know how long Twitter will even be around, but I think if people can capitalize on that tool and use it in that way, it can be extremely helpful for new opportunities and connections and opening doors, especially as a freelancer.

That's fantastic. All right, so these are. First of all, before we kind of move on, are those kind of the big platforms or channels that you're currently using? Are there any others that we missed?

Nope, those are the big ones. I think for the coaching side of my business, Inbound and Reddit are the two big referral sources. And then for client work, Slack is definitely the biggest one for me, followed by Twitter.

In terms of tracking the stuff and making this into a habit. What tips, ideas, recommendations do you have? And where I'm going with that is this all sounds great. I mean, I'm excited just listening to you. What will typically happen. I think many people will do the same is they'll kind of go crazy. They'll. They'll open accounts, they'll download, you know, Slack, they'll do all these things, but then they kind of burn out or then they don't turn it into a habitual kind of every day or every week kind of thing. So what have you found? Helps you not only track this stuff, but also more importantly, turn this into something you do on a regular basis. That way it ends up working for you.

So the tracking side, there are two main metrics that I look at for how successful my efforts are. Website traffic, of course, is the big one. You know, where are people who are coming to my website coming from and then contact form conversion. So on the client side of my business, how many people are coming to the website and then how many are following through and filling out a contact form, you know, taking some time to express interest in working with me. So that's how I, that's how I kind of rate the effectiveness of different channels. But as far as making them a habit, I touched on this a couple of times. But working from home, I found can be fairly lonely. So making these a habit and checking in on these channels is a really nice way to have some interaction throughout the day. And everybody has to take breaks. So, you know, if you have these apps on your phone, if you have the tab open on your computer, these are great ways to just kind of take a quick break while you're writing, check in on these places, have a couple back and forth with people and have it not just be a waste of time, but have it be an actual business development aspect of your freelancing business to just kind of work these breaks, these natural minutes to spend on these platforms and make it a really valuable part of your day.

I agree. I think it's interesting that we will carve out, let's say an hour to go work out or half an hour to go downstairs and grab some lunch or whatever, or even go out to a doctor's appointment. But when it comes to these activities, we just feel for some reason they'll just happen. But they won't just happen. I think many times, like you said, if you have those tabs open and okay, you'll see them. But I also think, and tell me if you agree, you almost have to be purposeful about it and say, you know, Thursday from 2 to 3, I'm gonna, I'm gonna work on, on these channels. I'm gonna respond to people, I'm going To be helpful. I'm gonna give. Et cetera.

Absolutely. I mean, it doesn't have to be a distraction. There are also, you know, you think about things like Twitter chats and these very deliberate conversation times that people are building into these platforms. Those are great ways that you can kind of build that into your schedule and have it be beneficial for you on a lot of different levels.

Yeah. And the last thing you want to do. Right. It's to only do these things when you desperately need work because you're not going to be effective. And in fact, if anything, they almost have to be purposeful about it and say, you know, Thursday from 2 to 3, I'm gonna, I'm gonna work on these channels, I'm gonna respond to people, I'm going to be helpful, I'm going to give, et cetera.

Absolutely. I mean, it doesn't have to be a distraction. There are also, you know, you think about things like Twitter chats and these very deliberate conversation times that people are building into these platforms. Those are great ways that you can kind of build that into your schedule and have it be beneficial for you on a lot of different levels.

Yeah. And the last thing you want to do. Right. It's to only do these things when you desperately need work because you're not going to be effective and effective anything. These things are going to backfire on you.

Yeah. And it's going to look desperate, that's for sure.

So one last question and I'm curious about your thoughts on platforms such as Upwork, Fiverr, et cetera. Because you know, we've been talking about online channels here and I. That's one that comes to mind, the work for hire online job board platforms. What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of, of these platforms for finding potential gigs online? What, what have you tried? What are your general thoughts on them?

So I have definitely checked them out, especially when I was first getting started. But what I have found that is that super helpful tools for a couple different reasons. Number one, there's often a lot of upfront work associated with these where you have to build out your portfolio and you submit these proposals for jobs and you never know if they're going to come through. A lot of the time they can be pretty low paying on these platforms and there's not really an aspect of relationship building. It's just kind of a writer for hire type scenario where you're doing a one and done job. So I'm not a huge proponent of these channels and I think if you can work on developing these Other channels we've talked about the social tools being active in the relevant spaces where your target audience is and you can invest time in there. You'll build connections and get referrals that are 10 times more valuable than going to these writer for hire type platforms because the quality is going to be a lot better. The people are going to be more excited to work with you. They're not just kind of hiring this faceless person over the Internet. There's an actual relationship and a foundation to human connection behind a real back and forth that you've had with a client. And long term, I think it's just a lot more beneficial because, you know, you have an ongoing conversation with these people. It's like I said, it's not just go to a job site and hire somebody. You're actually building friendships sometimes if you're lucky with people who then refer you out for other jobs and can recommend you and, and hire you and all those wonderful things.

Yeah. So we need to underscore the fact that these are not most of the time they're not going to be quick win kind of situations. You're there to be there for the long haul. Right. To build relationships and to get longer term results, not try to find a job today. I mean that might happen, but what I found is when I go into anything with that kind of mindset, it doesn't happen.

Never does. Never does.

Kaylee, this has been wonderful information. I appreciate you sharing all this with us. I'm excited to dig a little deeper into some of these. I was part of a Slack group for a conference one time. Never really understood. Now that you've explained it to me, I can see the possibilities and some of these others. So thank you so much for coming on the show today and going through this with us and, and before we leave, I want to make sure I tell people where they can connect with you, where they can learn more about you, your coaching, what you're up to and so forth.

Yeah, my website is kayleighmoore.com and that is my first and last name. My first name is really tricky to spell, so I'll make sure to send that over to you. And then on Twitter, on Instagram, I am Kayleef. Again, that first name is really tricky to spell. But yeah, those are the places where I spend time and I look forward to sharing what I know with anybody who wants to reach out.

Fantastic. We'll make sure to link to all that in the show notes. So even folks who aren't sure how to spell it we'll have it spelled out and linked to it directly there, so make sure to check that out.

Perfect. Great. Thank you.

Kayleigh. Thank you. Appreciate your spending time with us today and sharing your insights.

Thanks so much.

The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more at B2B launcher dot com.