#133: How to Stand Out and Thrive in an Increasingly Competitive Freelance Marketplace

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia.

Well, hello there and welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. I am your host, Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more in less time doing work they love for better clients. And you can find detailed show notes for this episode@b2b launcher.com episode 1:33 and these notes include a summary of our discussion here as well as links to resources mentioned during the show. And just a quick plug. We have updated everything about our websites. We have a brand new website. If you haven't checked it out, make sure to go to b2b launcher.com as well as as you probably noticed, our quick intro to this episode. This is your first time here. We're glad to have you on the show and you're in for a treat today because we're going to be talking about how to differentiate yourself in this increasingly competitive freelance marketplace. It's no surprise to you that freelancing and solopreneurship have been growing like crazy over the past 10 or 15 years. You have more and more professionals who are choosing to leave traditional employment for for a much more flexible work arrangement. All the research really points to that is one of the biggest really draws to working for yourself on your own as a freelancer. And then you have platforms such as Upwork and others that have enabled millions of people to offer their talents to just about anyone around the globe. But at the same time, you have to wonder, you know, is this influx of new freelancers creating a level of competition that's just making it harder to command professional level fees? We know that in many of these platforms it's a race to the bottom. But if you've been working at a different level, you know, that question does pop into your mind. You know, how is that going to impact what I can command? And the short answer is, you know what, it is going to impact what you can command. But that does not necessarily mean that you're doomed to work for less. The key to maintaining and growing your income as a freelancer is to get really good at differentiating you and your business from the pack. And in this episode we're going to be talking about that. You're going to hear from freelance copywriter and business coach Steve Roller. And Steve has been on the show before. We talked about making your business portable and working while traveling abroad. He is the author of the upcoming book, The Freelancer Manifesto. 11 Big Ideas to Stand out and Thrive in the New Economy. And in this discussion he is going to share several smart ways you can sustainably differentiate yourself in this constantly evolving and increasingly competitive marketplace. Now, before we get to the interview, just a quick heads up. We had some audio technical difficulties. Our connection was not good. In a couple of spots you'll hear that. And then eventually it got so bad we have to cut that section off and move to a phone interview. So you'll see that. But please be patient. Please hang tight. The really good stuff is once we move to the phone. So with that, enjoy my conversation with Steve Roller. Steve, welcome back to the show. So great to have you here, buddy.

Hey, good to be here, Ed. Thanks for having me. It's been a while since we've talked.

It has been a while. And I know that many of my listeners are familiar with you and your work. But for those who don't know you the first time listening to you, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and specifically the work you do, what types of clients you work with. I know you do some other things on the side, so tell us about that as well.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a copywriter and I have been a copywriter since 2004, full time since 2009. I actually never picked this probably goes against a lot of the way people do things, but I never picked a particular niche. So I've worked with clients all across the board in all kinds of different in all kinds of different areas. But I have a couple regular retainer clients that I work with now. I have an accounting firm that I work with in the uk. I've got a chain of fitness studios that are based in California that I work with and I've been working with both of them for years. And and I do a number of one off projects here and there. But most of my work these days is actually working with other copywriters. So about five years ago this month I started doing that. So I help copywriters not so much with the craft of copywriting per se, but more with helping them figure out where they fit into this wild west world of freelance copywriting. And I kind of work with two types of people. I work with a lot of B2C copywriters, so I don't work. I know you specialize in B2B. I really don't know much about B2B at all. So I work with B2C copywriters and I also work with people like Authors and speakers and coaches who are trying to make a name for themselves. And we kind of work with, we work on three things. We work on their positioning, so things like their hook or their usp, whatever you want to call it. I help them with their marketing plan so that they can get clients and get business and create informational products, things like that. And then also working on their personal brand, which is a big thing these days. And that's something I'll talk about a little bit more later. But just doing things to help people stand out and make people remember them, because it is, as we're going to talk about, it's a competitive world and you have to stand out. So that's what I do and that's where I am today.

Yeah, great to know. And you're absolutely right. I mean, it is so, so noisy. You really have to work a little bit harder to stand out. I know one of the things that we're going to be talking about today is this whole idea of the gig economy. Right. And that's a topic that has always fascinated me and how quickly the global workforce is changing. So I'm curious what aspects of the evolving freelance landscape fascinate you the most and why?

Yeah, good question. And you know, it's funny because a few years ago I started seeing these statistics that I don't know, they said something like 40% of the workforce by the year 2020 would be some type of freelancers. And I thought, no way, that can't possibly be true. Well, here we are in 2017 and I think it's becoming that way. But first of all, I love that someone can come in and quickly get started in this gig economy. You can find something you're good at, look for a place and get to work. And it's really all about serving people in what I believe is a very efficient way. It's good for service providers and clients both. But as far as what I find fascinating. So it's a very low barrier to entry, which is great for anyone who wants to try something new, maybe mid career, which is what I did, or maybe even just out of the blocks coming out of school instead of going into a traditional job. Or I talk to a lot of people too who are in kind of a late in life pivot and they are trying to do this freelancing thing. It's pretty easy to hire someone to help you with the marketing and your branding and getting your website set up and things like that, or setting up Facebook ads and funnels. So I love that it's a very open marketplace that it's available to anyone who is willing to work hard. I guess the second thing that fascinates me even more than when you and I talked three years ago, is that the gig economy allows people to work from anywhere and to arrange their work around their lifestyle. So if you want to, let's say you're a young person, you want to live in and operate from a big city, and you can find a small apartment and live there, you're not necessarily blocked out of living and working in New York City or Chicago because you don't have the right credentials or the job qualifications or the money to rent an office in those expensive cities. Or if you want to, you know, live on the beach in Mexico like a couple people I know away from all the hustle and bustle, you can do that. Or, and this is kind of my reasoning, if you want to be able to take more vacations with your family, and you know you can, because you can bring your work with you wherever you go, you can do that. So really, both. Both those aspects of the gig economy fascinate me. The low barrier to entry, the fact that it's available to almost anyone, and the portable nature of it, I love that aspect of it, and that opens up all kinds of other opportunities.

We talked about competition a couple of minutes ago, and I'm curious because with a low barrier to entry, so many people are going solo. One of the questions that I get asked a lot is, is this making it harder to really stand out and to earn. Not just stand out, but also to earn a good living as a freelance copywriter or freelance writer?

Yes. And yes, it's making it much tougher if. And I tell people this all the time, it's making it much tougher if you're average and if you look and sound like everyone else. So it is harder if you. It is harder to differentiate yourself. And I do think it's harder to earn a great living. It's certainly still possible. And you have success stories all over the place yourself. You know that. But it's simple economics. It's supply and demand. I mean, we may. Here's the thing, we may think that we have a unique niche or a unique angle, but unless we really do some things to stand out, all of us copywriters, we kind of look remarkably similar to clients. And by the way, this goes for all kinds of freelancers, not just copywriters. I mean, this goes for graphic designers and photographers and website builders, content marketers, coaches, speakers. It's the same for everyone. So yeah, that low barrier to entry that we talked about, that's good. But in a way we're simplifying things. Here's my take on it. We're simplifying things too much on the front end by saying that anyone can do it. On the other hand, once you're in the freelance world, I see too many people complicating things with very involved funnels and marketing systems. So I think it's actually harder on the front end. I think we need more skills and more of a foundation and really need to bust it in the beginning. But it's easier on the back end. There's no need, I don't think, for copywriters or authors or speakers or coaches to have really complicated marketing systems. And I don't think we need to be pouring tons of money into that. If you want to scale and go big. Yeah, but we could keep it quite simple. And I know you're an advocate of this too. You know, you can make a list, you can connect with people in a genuine way with a good offer and then have a good conversation. And that's actually that part of it, the client conversation part of it is something I talk about a lot and I talk about it a lot with copywriters. I think that's something that's kind of missing these days. Everybody wants it, everybody wants it to be really simple and for their marketing system or their funnel or whatever to create all the leads and the clients. But you know, I mean, if we're in a service based business, at some point to get the client on board, you've got to have a. You've got to have a client conversation and that has to go well.

So.

So, yeah, so I think it's tougher to make a good living. I think there's more competition. But that's one of the reasons why I talk to people about trying to stand out and do some things differently.

Medium and into a different one. We're just having way too many problems and it's not as great. But this is actually the good part of the interview, so stick around. And Steve, we went back and forth on this, but I know you have an upcoming book. I'm excited to read it because you've identified 11 big ideas for standing out and thriving in this gig economy, you know, with all the competitive forces that are at play. So what I figured we'd do is maybe if you could talk us through maybe four or five of them and just share what they are and why they're important.

Sure, sure. So, yeah, in the book, there's 11 big ideas. I'll talk about four or five of them here. These aren't necessarily in any kind of order, but the first thing that I talk about with people a lot and that I bring about in the book is the idea of becoming an idea generator. I tell copywriters all the time that it's hard to distinguish yourself as a copywriter, but really our job is to help people solve problems and give them ideas and give them away for free. Even on an initial prospect call. I give people ideas that if they wanted to, they could take them and run with them even without my help. Now, hopefully the ideas are free. Hopefully the implementation of those ideas require our help. But I'm just a big believer in this idea that we help people solve problems and we give them ideas, and the better that we can get at generating ideas for people. So I'm not talking about just on the delivery of when we write our copy and stuff. Yeah, we gotta come up with our own ideas there. But I'm talking about just taking a natural role as an advisor or a consultant. You don't have to call yourself that, but kind of act in that capacity when we're talking to copywriting clients and just give them ideas and throw out ideas like, hey, have you ever thought about doing this? Or have you thought about putting up a new lead magnet on your website? Or have you thought about this type of marketing or whatever it might be? But in order to do that, we've got to stay on top of things in marketing in general and copywriting in general. And really our job is to kind of take all the best ideas and bring the best ones that apply to our clients to them. Because they're busy running their businesses, they don't have time to stay on top of things like we are. So that would be the first thing, Ed, is just the idea of becoming an idea generator.

And that is so on point. It reminds me of Daniel Pink's book A Whole New Mind, where he talks about these global forces, right? You got 2, 3 billion people entering the workforce because of the Internet. They're able to provide freelance services to anyone in the world. And how do you compete with that? The premise of the book is, well, there's certain things that they won't be able to compete. If you're in North America, one of the ways you can compete is. This is a perfect example of that. Solve problems, become an idea generator. And he makes an argument for being more of a right brain thinker and service Provider and less of a left brain. Because the left brain is now the domain of people who can do it better, faster, cheaper.

You can't compete with that. Yeah, love that. Absolutely.

So what would be the second one?

Another one is to. I tell people all the time to stay under the radar. I don't know why, but we copywriters and freelancers have this habit of advertising what we're doing to everybody, not just our clients, but to our peers and our competition. I'll see somebody that comes up with a new idea, they'll identify a hot new niche, or they'll come up with a great new marketing system. And it's great and it's wonderful for people to share ideas with people. But sometimes I say, you know what, you might want to just keep things under the radar. Keep things under wraps a little bit until you've got them developed yourself. Not that everyone's out there to steal other people ideas, but I think we should focus more on telling our clients what we're doing and less on, you know, advertising and broadcasting it to our peers and our competition. So for example, in Facebook groups, somebody else, sometimes before they've got the idea even developed, they'll put it out there for everybody to have. And sometimes people take those ideas and run with themselves. But so I tell people that you got to kind of stay under the radar, protect what you have, protect your good ideas, you know, certainly buy any related domain names that you're. I talk about giving processes, systems and methods and names. So I came up with a funnel system for copywriters a couple years ago. And I, instead of just calling it a copywriting funnel, I called it the five speed business accelerator. You know, it's just attaching a name to something. I came up with a term, the wealth pipeline, copywriter connector, things like that. So giving systems and processes and names is one. A name is one way to protect your ideas. Even using the TM symbol, the trademark symbol stuff, if you plan to develop an idea. So things like that. But I talk about kind of keeping things quiet until you've got them fairly well developed, that even if someone tried to copy you, they wouldn't be able to catch up. That kind of thing.

And again, to be clear, it's especially with the outside world, if you're talking with a prospect or with a client, that that's a little different because speaks to one. Right. Being an idea generator.

Yes. Yep, yep. So, yeah. So again, talking. Yeah. So the first idea, the idea, you know, generating and those things. Yeah, Always giving things to our Clients and stuff. But as far as our direct competition, like if you've got a copywriter, same niche as you are, you just figured out this brand spanking new way of identifying the decision maker and getting to them, closing them right away. You might not want to tell your biggest competitors about that. Yeah, yeah, super.

All right, so what would be another big idea from your, from your book?

Another big idea is just this idea is just to get good at a few key skills. And there are what I call, what I call hard skills. And we all know about these and I think we all focus on these, we talk about, these are obvious for copywriters. We need to get good at the craft of copywriting, of course. We need to get good at selling, we need to be good at marketing, we need to be good at connecting and networking. But there's also what I call soft skills. And those are things that are not real obvious, but I think they're things that if you're going to succeed as a freelancer, you need to have. And I'll just run through these real quick. But one of them is an abundance mindset. Just the idea that do you really want to become wealthy? Do you have a positive view of wealthy people, how they got there? Do you have an inquisitive view of the rich rather than more common attitude toward them that a lot of people have, that they don't like the rich? So that an entrepreneurial spirit. Do you have the drive to do things on your own? Do you have a little bit of a sense of rugged individualism? Do you have a track record of doing things by yourself? So entrepreneurial spirit, abundance mindset, something that I call style. And this I guess speaks to personal branding and stuff. But this is a little harder to explain. But I think you need to project and convey a confident, successful image, a sharp appearance both in person and online. And then something that I call resilience. And this is as a salesperson. You and I both have a sales background. You understand the idea of resilience, but just being kind of immune to harsh criticism, being open to constructive feedback, but just what I would call bounce back ability. This is not an easy business. And just like in sales, there can be rough spots where you're marketing yourself and you're not getting all the projects that you want or just, you know, there's always things that we need to bounce back from. So having a little bit of a sense of resilience I think is important. So those all speak to, I go into detail in the book on those, but really there's eight skills that I talk about getting good at. Four of them are the hard skills. For them are these soft skills that are not so obvious.

I love that you mentioned these because these soft skills that you brought up aren't things that we typically talk about. Right. The emphasis is always on the hard skills. And even in that group, we tend to overemphasize the writing and copywriting skills. And I think there's something to be said for that, of course. But I find that the most successful writers and copywriters out there aren't necessarily the best writers and copywriters in the world. They're very good at what they do. But you're right, when I look at this list that you just gave us, they tend to score really high in some of these softer skills.

Yep, I love that.

All right, so give us another one. What would be another big idea?

This is one that I just say. This has kind of been the story of my life of just saying yes to opportunities and stretching. I think I look back and I document this in the book, in this chapter. But just at every point in my life, in my career, it just came about not because I kind of did what was comfortable or did what I wanted to do, but I really got out of my comfort zone from the point when I first got into sales. That was not a natural thing for me. But I love the idea of it. I love the idea that you could create your own income and grow your own income faster than you could in a corporate job. Saying yes to opportunities and stretching and not just doing what's comfortable, stretching and getting help if we need it. So putting yourself out there and this is just, I think, again, something we need to do in this new economy and this gig economy. If we're going to stand out, we've got to do things a little bit different than everybody else. We've got to do more than just put up the website, connect with the same type of client, send out the same type of email. We've got to do some things different. So I go through a few things in the book, but I think we need to try to connect with bigger people. That's stretching. I'm always trying to connect with big name people, even if I'm just a blip on their radar or not a blip at all on their radar. I'm trying to reach out to big name people like James Altucher and Keith Farazi and just sharp, sharp people that are really kind of high up there and just somehow make a connection. I've Been able to do that, in some cases aiming for bigger projects. This is a big one. Speaking in person. So not just, not just like live streaming and doing video, which I think that's huge too, but speaking in person, taking any opportunity that we can to speak to a group of people. I had a chance early in my career where really before I knew what I was doing with copywriting, somebody knew I was a copywriter and they said, hey, can you talk to our business breakfast group? And I thought, sure. I thought maybe 10 or 15 people were going to show up. Well, 60 local business leaders showed up to this thing. And I had to speak for 60 minutes on copywriting and marketing while I was prepared, of course, but a lot of people would be intimidated by that. But the fact is I knew some things about copywriting marketing that they didn't know and I ended up getting some good leads from that. And so every step of my career, both in sales and in copywriting, I have tried to stretch and say yes anytime somebody asked me to do. And I guess two other opportunities that I think people could take advantage of that I've done too, are hosting some kind of live event. So not just speaking in public, but actually hosting a live event. If you've got, if you've got an audience of people that would like to get a little bit more of you. I think a lot of people would love to come to a event or a half day event or a two day event or whatever, but think about hosting a live event. And then the last thing is that I talk to people all the time about is I suggest writing a book. That's a big stretch. And now that I've written a number of ebooks, but now that I've finally, that's going to be a physical book on Amazon, I can say this, and I've helped a few other people write their books too, but I think that's a big thing that can help people stand out. So a lot of things, there are a lot of little ideas, but the general big idea there is saying yes to opportunities. Whenever.

I find that many of us are such perfectionists that we say no so many times because we feel without no, never, it's just no, I'm not ready. And I see that more than no, never. But I think the danger for no, not now, I'm not ready is really, when will you be ready? I mean, there are some things, sure, you know, you should prepare a little bit more. There's some things you need to brush up on or learn before you do whatever But I think we're missing out on incredible opportunities every year because we just don't think that the timing is right. And really what it boils down to is fear. Isn't it, Steve?

Oh, completely. And the fact is, most of the time, until you do something, you're not going to be ready. You've got to do something, you know, for the first time. I mean, the first time we had a big copywriting project, the first time, you know, we had a, you know, to lead a conference call or what, whatever. It might be the first time we do anything where we don't have a lot of experience at it. So. But, yeah, it was totally fear. But, you know, we've just got to get past that. And. And I just always suggest to people, you know, once you say yes to something, then go about, you know, getting good at it, but getting help. I talk about reaching out to people, getting help all the time, and I try to do that when I can to help other people, but I know you do, too. But just helping people stretch. And so, yeah, that's a big thing.

Well, and here's the good news, too, is when you do this, when you say yes to opportunities, when you stretch yourself, the cool thing is that becomes your new normal, meaning that level, that playing field is now higher. What used to scare the heck out of you is now very commonplace. So the way to really broaden where you play is by stretching. And I'm with you, Steve. It's been the only way I've grown. And listen, it's easier said than done. I look at some things that a lot of people are terrified to do, and I don't think, think twice about them. But there are things in my world that scare living daylights out of me. So I think it's a great reminder.

So, you know, I'm curious, a little.

Bit off topic as we wrap up. I know you're a seasoned traveler, and I'm curious. Any big travel plans coming up for you?

Yeah, believe it or not, this is the first year in about 10 years that I'm not leaving the country at all. So I'm not going out of the United States States this year. But I do have a retreat coming up in Vermont in early October that I'm hosting. That'll be trip, but my wife and I are actually going to Israel next April for our 20th anniversary, so we've been wanting that for a long time. So that's a big trip. And then next summer, I'll be going back to Ecuador for my fourth trip there. And probably spend a good part of the summer there. But besides just traveling and working down there, I'm also going to be hosting myself first tour for other people. So I've got a small group. It'll be probably just a dozen people, mostly family, friends, people that know me that want to come along to Ecuador for the first time. And so I'm going to be playing official tour guide for the first time. And if all goes as planned, that might become something that I do ongoing into the future. So that'll be my first foray into the travel travel guide world.

That sounds exciting. I love that. And we'll link to the episode we did together on how you work in travel and how you made your business this portable, where you talk about your experiences in Ecuador and other exciting spots. Make sure to link to that.

Excellent.

So when closing, Steve, before we wrap up, I want to make sure you've mentioned the book, but can you just give us a quick synopsis of the title, the premise, and when and where we can get a hold of it?

Yeah. So the book again is called the Freelancer 11 Big Ideas to Stand out and Thrive in the New Economy. The premise is it's really for freelancers of all types. I did use a lot of copywriting examples, of course, since I'm a copywriter. But it's really written to freelancers of all types to help them, as the subtitles suggest, help them stand out in this crazy world that's kind of a big old free for all with everybody trying to position, jostle for position and make a name for themselves. So in the first part, real quick, I just talk about the reality of freelancing and I call it the Dark side. So I talk about something that a lot of people aren't really talking about. I think we get. We see the nice side of things and the people making a lot of money and living wherever they want and all the fun stuff. But I actually go into kind of detail about the reality of freelancing so people know what they're getting into. Part two, then, is what I call the bright side. And that's 11 big ideas. I've got a chapter in each of those very specific things that people can do. Some tactics and strategies that people can do to stand out and to thrive in this economy. And then the last part, the send off, is just talking about your abundant future, taking your business to what I call level 11. If you've ever seen the movie, this is Spinal Tap. People will get what that means, but the book will be out on it's done. It's in the hands of my editor and I'm done with it. And he's been working on editing and formatting and. But I'm self publishing. It's going to be available on Amazon, hopefully later this month. Probably not when this airs, but sometime later in August, by early September at the very latest. And I'll also have a link to it at my website, copywritercafe.com so. And I'll probably be promoting it on Instagram, too. I'm Cafe writer Steve on Instagram.

Super. Well, what we'll do is if it's not out by the time we publish, Steve, we'll include a link to the book. We'll add that link in the show notes in that way folks can find it easily. But I'm excited to read it. I can tell this is not the usual rah rah vanilla advice that you see out there. I've actually taken a half page of notes here.

That's some great stuff.

So thanks for coming on the show and for putting up with our bad connection. But we've made it work, I think.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I love coming on and just sharing a few ideas. And I just want to thank you for what you do, too. I mean, you're one of the people that I first discovered when I got into copywriting and I got your Wealthy Freelancer book. I have followed you for years and I've learned a lot from you. So thank you for what you do.

Oh, thank you, Steve. I appreciate that.

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