#146: How to Land Writing Contracts in the Public Sector: An Insider’s View

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there. Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. I am your host, Ed Gandia, and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more and less time doing work they love for better clients. Just a quick reminder that you can find detailed show notes for this episode@b2b launcher.com episode 146. Those notes include a summary of our discussion here in this episode, as well as links to resources mentioned during the show. I'm often asked about freelance writing opportunities in the public sector. Now, I know these opportunities exist, but until I talked with this week's guest, I really didn't know what these opportunities look like or how you could go after them. And that's why I'm so excited about this episode. My guest is Katie Taylor, who's a CEO of Untold Content. And Untold Content is a writing consultancy based in Cincinnati, Ohio. Katie works with clients in government, healthcare, engineering, industry, and science. And a big part of her work over the years has been with government agencies. And in this conversation, she's going to talk about what what that's all about. You're going to learn about the opportunities writing for the public sector, including government agencies. And she's going to give you a great primer on what these contracts are about, what they look like in some practical steps for getting started. Enjoy. Hey, Katie, welcome to the show. It's so great to be talking with you today.

It's so great to meet you in person. Thank you so much for inviting me onto the show.

Well, this is going to be a fun chat and we're addressing a couple of things, but mostly a topic that I really don't know much about. So I'm excited to dive into our discussion, but usually I start off by asking our guests to just give a quick introduction. So give us some background on yourself. What were you doing prior to going out on your own? How did you get started? How did you get to where you are today, essentially? And then I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your education because you have a PhD and I find that really interesting and why you ended up where you are right now.

Wonderful. Thank you. I'm Katie Trouth Taylor and I'm CEO of a writing consultancy called Untold Content. And Untold Content is headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio, which is also where I happen to grow up. You know, I did not intend to Start a company. When I was an undergraduate English major, I decided I wanted to be an English professor and that that was the path that was right for my life. And I pursued that and along the way discovered in particular that I'm extremely passionate about rhetoric and composition, which is a sort of sub discipline within English studies that focuses on rhetoric or argumentation and composition or the art and style of writing. And so I pursued my PhD in rhetoric and writing at one of the oldest doctoral programs in Rec Comp. In the nation, and that's at Purdue, Purdue University in Indiana. And while I was there, I found that really inside of rhetoric and composition, the field of technical writing and professional writing, and in particular the study of public rhetoric, that those were just the areas of research and writing that captured my interest, that to me, were very much focused on how to take technical and complex information and translate it so that many different audiences, even the general public, can understand it. Purdue is a very engineering and scientifically oriented university, and so it made a lot of sense to study that. And so I taught technical writing to engineering students there and really just grew in my understanding of scientific communication. That's really how I got my start. And right out of my PhD, I had the incredible, incredible fortune of landing a tenure track job at Miami University, which is located in Oxford, Ohio, not far from Cincinnati. And so it's kind of unheard of to begin at a research university job right near your hometown, where you can kind of make an impact on the communities where you grew up, but also still get to thrive in your academic research. And I loved it. I was teaching grant writing and professional writing, and the faculty and the students there were incredible. But as I was doing that, I was also consulting and getting more and more experience as a writing consultant and an organizational storytelling consultant, both in the public sector and doing government work, but also in the corporate and nonprofit sectors, too, doing grant writing and technical writing. So as my consulting work grew, I just really eventually made a really brave decision to move away from academia and decide, you know, I really can't be doing both of these careers at once. I need to make a decision. And for me, the idea of having a consultancy where I could hire English majors and promote public intellectualism by working kind of out in the trenches with organizations and with technical experts, that was really just what brought me to life and why I ultimately decided to resign from Miami and open my company. And so that's really my personal journey to Untold content and how it got started and why.

Wow. So for those of you who know A little bit about the tenure track. That was quite a risk, right? You're on this great track and suddenly you decide to abandon that, not for something that was unproven. It sounds like you've had good success at that point in your consulting work. But that still must have been quite scary.

Oh, absolutely, yes. Yes. It was very unknown. There's not much training when you're getting a PhD in writing. There's very little business acumen and training that goes along with that. So I really didn't know hardly any other people who had graduate degrees in writing who were starting their own companies. I really was very steeped in the professional identity of being an academic writer and researcher. So, yes, it felt very brave to make that decision. And it's also difficult because as anyone who has tried really hard to get a tenure track job, especially in English, knows, it's just very difficult to enter back into that space after you leave it. You can't really just quit and then say, will all come back here in a few years. So it was a huge career decision to branch out like that.

You really crossed the Rubicon, didn't you? Now or never.

I love it.

I love it. So one of the things that I really want to address today, because this is something that I've been asked about many times and I just don't really have good answers for it because I'm very ignorant about this sector, is the public sector. And you've had good success landing public sector clients. And I guess maybe by way of introduction, can you describe from a writing and consulting perspective what that market is about?

Sure, absolutely. So the public sector is massive. It basically refers to any government entities or agencies. And I think sometimes when people think of the government, they think that the government is government and business is business. But the truth is that the government contracts out quite a bit of its products and services to small businesses and other business entities. And in fact, every government agency has targets that they've set up in terms of the percentage of their contracted support that they will aim to award to small businesses, and in particular, minority owned businesses, or woman owned businesses, or veteran owned small businesses. So every agency is different. But there is a legal investment within the government to award products and service contracts to small businesses. And so that market, it's as vast and wide as the government is itself. I personally am quite familiar with the Veterans Health Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs. We've earned two subcontracts to do technical writing support and organizational storytelling support for the VA over the last several years. But you know, we're also pursuing, at this point, we're pursuing RFPs that come out of our local city. So the city of Cincinnati, you can look at the, at the state level for different opportunities that come out in terms of writing. And what's most interesting to myself and all of us as business writers is the government is oftentimes looking for grant writing support, technical writing support, publication support. So I've seen different research groups at universities or different research laboratories inside of national labs, or for instance in the Veterans Health Administration. Clinical teams there are interested in publishing their insights and their findings from research in peer reviewed publications and oftentimes need support with literature reviews or qualitative or mixed methods research. And then the publication strategy and the circulation strategy for when the research gets accepted from a journal. How do we share that insight? There's also a huge need for support with annual reports, research reports. Any kind of initiative in the government needs to be accountable to the public because the ultimate purpose of government is to serve the public good. And so I think when you're thinking about the possibility of entering into a contract or subcontract for any government entity to keep in mind that their purpose is public good. And so knowing how to, knowing exactly what kinds of deliverables or approaches are needed to support that, in my experience, what I believe is, what I've seen much value in, in the public sector is the value of being able to translate the insights of experts for the public audience, for public audiences. And so that might look like making sure that EPA impact statements are legible, readable, making sure that any initiative started in the Department of Veterans affairs, for instance, is able to be understood by not just other physicians and nurses in the va, but also the veterans themselves and the family members who are there to support them. So I can share some more examples of the kind of work that we've done that might help bring it to life. But those are some of the range of service support that we've provided, that Untold Content has provided and that I've provided as a consultant consultant and what other, you know, writers, professional writers listening to this podcast may want to pursue.

So just to make sure I understand, we maybe we could look at it a couple of different dimensions. One would be, you know, there's federal, there's state, and there's local, and then within those there are obviously agencies, and then there's a wide range of agencies. And then within each of these agencies there are different needs which you mentioned. You know, grant writing, technical writing, publications, annual reports, research Reports and so forth. Is that maybe a good way to kind of sort this out?

Yes, absolutely.

And I got a question. We should probably take a quick step back, but you know, how many people are in your team right now? It sounds like, you know, you've grown to a decent sized team.

Yeah, yes, absolutely. So I resigned from my academic job about a year and a half ago and hired my first employee a year ago. And now at this point we're a five woman writer team. Yeah. So five. Yes, yes. It's been really great rapid growth. And that's actually because in the last year I've actually diversified and accepted more clients in the corporate and nonprofit sector too. So before that when I was an academic, I was only doing public sector work and public sector contracts for writing consultants. It's actually really great because the government, as we all know, works on a yearly annual fiscal budget. And so most government contracts are written as a one year contract typically based on an hourly rate with a not to exceed amount. And then that's. It could depend. There are also definitely RFQs and RFPs out there for project based services. Like for instance, I saw one today that they needed support for writing an annual report and it was going to be a four month contract. So those certainly exist and they were, you know, the bid was structured so that you would have to quote for a particular price just for that product. But more typically in writing RFPs I've seen from the public sector, I've seen them looking to secure a writing support for one year and usually there are option years that are added to that, sometimes going upwards of five years where each year as Congress approves the budget, then that particular agency or contracting officer who awarded that contract to your company, they can choose to renew it with you if there's still budget for it.

So even in things that are very well defined, there's still kind of a time span associated with it. Like you mentioned, the annual report, that's a very well defined deliverable. There was still in that example a four month contract associated with it.

Yes, I find that RFQs and solicitations coming from the government tend to have very clear requirements. Everything is pretty much written in ink and in stone and what they say is what they need. And you know, the contracts that I began with in the government with the Department of Veterans affairs, those were actually structured slightly more flexibly than that example that I just provided about the annual report. So they were just called technical writing, Facilitation support. That was the title of those contracts and that was set for a base period, which that means the first year and then an option period one, option period two, those are the follow on years. So they'll approve one year at a time and for that it was in one year. We will provide technical writing support at this hourly rate up to this many hours in the year and then we would invoice on a monthly basis for that.

Gotcha. Has your experience been that typically what the contract amount ends up being gets used? So in other words, you'll agree to provide it for a year at this particular rate, but they will go ahead and use you. It's not the kind of thing where they just kind of forget about you.

Right, right, absolutely. I think it's like any useful, valuable and strategic approach to consulting. You know, I take pride in making sure that our team embeds ourselves and immerses ourselves in the organizations that we support. And I think with any contract, whether you've structured it through a project rate or especially if you're talking about retainer clients, and that's how I would view public service sector contracts that are lengthy like this is certainly like this is a top customer of ours and we're going to be supporting them long term, month to month on a regular retainer. And so we're going to embed ourselves into the organization, make sure that we're connecting with the right stakeholders, understanding their needs. And to me there's this beauty in certainly meeting every requirement that's asked of us. But as a consultant, I think we have a responsibility to imagine what deliverables they should be publishing that maybe they're not publishing yet or they didn't think to ask for. And that's I think when you, you know, and I hear this lesson in your podcast frequently but you know, it's that creative moment where, where you, where you see into a way of communicating some piece of knowledge or helping to your organization to communicate some insight in a format or in an approach that they hadn't considered before. So a quick example I'll share with this is that when the VA was having its access crisis a few years ago and so many veterans were struggling to be seen by doctors, it was a national crisis and the director of the VA issued a mandate that all veterans need same day appointments. And the response to that was to use lean systems engineering to improve the systems processes within the va. And the particular center that I worked with in the VA and that I provided technical writing support for was the Veterans Engineering Resource Centers. And that was a national level network of engineering centers where systems engineers would go out and help different VA medical centers implement systems engineering processes to improve their clinical outcomes and get patients seen faster and make sure that veterans are getting the care that they deserve. And as I saw them implement lean systems engineering, I just heard so many stories from nurses and doctors and CEOs and veterans themselves saying this has drastically improved my access to care. This has helped me feel like I'm heard and visible. And so we were already writing annual reports and project initiative outcome statements and designing infographics to show the outcome of those efforts, but they hadn't necessarily thought to write a book about it. And there were just so many powerful stories. And so we, at that point I had already been consulting for a couple of years within the engineering resource centers. And so I suggested you may very much want to consider communicating all of these efforts back to the public. And so ended up writing a book proposal, getting that accepted. And that book should be published soon. It's currently in press, but we co authored that book, did all of the research, traveled to four different VA medical centers to interview people who had been impacted by those changes. And so that's, to me, that's this beautiful part of being immersed with the clients that you're working with. And to get back to your earlier question, which was more of a strategic question, you know, how do you make sure that. That not to exceed amount, that you try to kind of get close to that amount while you think about what the organization needs and the stories it's not telling yet or the deliverables that they haven't imagined creating yet. And you make sure that you're embedding and not just taking everything only at face value or lacking the creativity or the inspiration to do that.

Yeah. So it's essentially what you would do with any client, especially when you're kind of deeply embedded in the organization. You don't want to be an order taker. You want to think creatively. You want to bring ideas to the table. You want to be a trusted partner. And it's no different. What I'm hearing here, just because it's the public sector doesn't mean that things change. You should act the same way as you would in the private sector.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's even more hunger in the public sector for people who are creative and inspired and aren't kind of burnt out. A lot of people in government work thankless jobs doing really incredible work. And it's not flashy and it's not sexy, but it's, it is, it's so very important. And it's very much deserving of strong communication and clarity around, especially around processes when you're talking about bureaucracies that are that large. There's just so much need, in my opinion, for strong technical writers who can communicate things in a way that makes complex processes more clear for people, which. Anyone who's ever gone to the BMV should fail me on this one.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I want to kind of start getting a little bit more tactical here over the next few questions. So you've given us a really good overview and some great examples of what's out there. And of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sounds like there's so many opportunities. I'm curious if somebody listening, you've piqued their interest. How do you get started in this market? You know, what do you need to do? Well, and then I want to kind of get into, you know, how to identify opportunities and prospects.

Perfect. Yep, absolutely. So on a tactical level, you know, all of the, all of the advice that you would hear about making sure that you have a clear business concept, branding that, you know your brand story is clear and communicated well, that you've kind of identified how you know how you're going to diversify your sales, what kinds of services you'll provide, all of that is homework that you have to do before you're ready to move on to the more tactical steps of making yourself eligible for government work. There are two ways, two key ways, I would say, to pursue public sector work. Number one is to become a prime government vendor yourself. And that means that your organization, your entity is directly applying and bidding on solicitations and opportunities that are coming out from the government, whether that's federal, city, state, local. Prime vendor means that you are the prime awardee of a contract that is hard to do. And so the second way that, you know, I'll go more into how you can set yourself up for that. The second way to do public sector work is by being a subcontractor. And that means that you're partnering with other entities that are perhaps larger or more diversified, and you're earning a subcontract, which you're sort of proposing with that larger organization on solicitations that come out. So both of the contracts that I had for technical writing facilitation in the VA were actually through a prime government vendor. Those were both subcontracts, and they were through the Purdue center for Medication Safety Advancement. So I actually found out about these opportunities by being a PhD student at Purdue and seeing a call come out from our Department of Pharmacy asking for a technical writer. And so I interviewed several other students, interviewed and I think some faculty too. And I ended up getting that opportunity. And that was the start of my company. I had an incredible mentor at Purdue named Kathy Scott, and she was in the Department of Pharmacy and has just been the kind of point of contact and I believe over 30 government contracts at this point. But universities will oftentimes serve as a prime vendor. There are also just tons of companies out there. And in the case of technical writers, our strategy at Untold Content right now is to partner with engineering firms and other technical service providers because writing is often embedded as a service within a larger umbrella contract. And so an example is we recently worked with an engineering firm to provide technical writing for design guides within the va. So this was a totally different subcontract. I just explained how to write a capability statement, but it's essentially just a one pager. And there's a particular format that you follow every government contracting officer, which is the internal. Those are the internal folks within the government who are responsible for finding great companies to provide goods and services to the government. They're the ones who put out solicitations and RFQs and RFPs and head up the decision making process for which company to award different contracts to. Sort of contracting officers are used to seeing capability statements and they're going to want to see yours. So finding out which agencies, kind of making some decisions on which agencies you think you may have expertise in. Right now we're actually trying to network and grow more with the nuclear, with agencies that support nuclear sciences, because our new science writer, Alicia Serow just finished her piece of all things in Nuclear Forensics. And so you kind of find, you know, what are, what's your niche? Like what are the things that might be unique or, you know, if you've worked in healthcare before for, you know, community based healthcare organizations or corporate healthcare, then you may want to pursue something like va, Veterans Health Administration contracts. So. But yeah, a capability statement is the place to start. And all of the principles around email marketing and communicating and networking go into that particular approach.

Now with capability statements, are you suggesting that you have one even if you're not going directly to an agency, even if you're going through an intermediary?

Yep, exactly. So you'll send your capability statement to, you can send it to government agencies to network with contracting officers, but you can also send it to prime government vendors. So those companies and organizations that are already winning government contracts for larger umbrella support services and that you see that they need technical writing or grant writing or research writing. As part of that, you want to be networking with those prime vendors and finding out who you should be connecting with at that organization and sending them your capability statement, trying to get a creative share on the calendar or come in to share your capabilities with them. That's a really, really good first step.

You know what it sounds like a lot of this is, you know, you've mentioned networking a few times. It's really just kind of finding the initial gate to kind of get into the game. Right. So how I'm trying to figure out how can you make this somebody who's interested in going in this direction. And maybe they have some ideas like you mentioned the healthcare example, maybe they have nursing degree and work experience. What would be maybe a good way to, to put yourself out there? Because I know there's so many organizations, so many groups from a networking standpoint, how can you make that practical and yet inefficient? Right. So you're not just going to pretty much any group that's out there. You're not calling everybody in your network. How can you give this process a little bit of direction? What would be your advice?

Yeah, a couple of different pieces of advice. Number one, every government, maybe I'll narrow this to federal opportunities at this point. Because if you're interested in local opportunities, there's going to be far less competition for that. And you can look up your local. For me, it would be city of Cincinnati RFPs or contracting opportunities. And you can pursue getting registered with your city. And some cities, they'll put you on a list and you'll get emails. When opportunities come out on other cities, they're just going to publish on their webpage and you will have to go and search there. So that's a little more nuanced and it really depends on the city and the state. But in terms of federal opportunities, any contract that will be awarded over $25,000 has to be published on FBO.gov FedBizOps.gov and the nice thing about FBO is you can search for solicitations, but you can also search for awards. And so one way to identify prime government vendors is to see, to look back and do some analysis on, you know, was there a sewer wastewater management RFP that required research reports alongside it and who won that award and if it was identifying. And also you can see who the interested vendors were on that solicitation. So that will give you some insight into what other prime vendors either applied or considered applying. Or I say apply, but I mean bid. So that's one way is to look@fedbizopps.gov and search awards. There are also so many tools out there. We are registered on a tool called bidmatch which sends us daily alerts for new opportunities that involve our keywords. There's also another kind of new startup called bidview out of Texas. We've actually done some content strategy support for bidview and those guys are two veterans. They created an app that basically takes every federal contracting opportunity, I'm sorry, not federal, every state and local opportunity in Texas and combines it on one app in one place. Which is incredible because as I was just describing, local contracts, local opportunities can be really nuanced from state to state and city to city. So having all of that combined into one app is pretty awesome. So bidview is a good service. Bid Match is good. And we at Untold Content, we have bid match through the US Women's Chamber of Commerce. And the USWCC is the agent, not the agent, the association that awarded us with a woman owned small business certification. And so to answer your other question about, you know, how do I narrow my networking strategy? Well, if you are a minority business owner or what's called a historically underutilized business, a hubzone business, if you're a woman owned small business, an economically disadvantaged woman owned small business, or if you're a veteran, or especially a service disabled veteran, if you have any kind of sort of qualifier like that in your leadership and in your ownership, that will allow you to apply even more strategically. So every federal agency has goals for what percentage of their contracts they'll award to small businesses, but then especially in my case to women owned small businesses. So getting that woman owned, it's called wasb, a little different than an industry where it's the women business enterprise certification that you want when you're working with corporations with like big co's. But if you're wanting to work inside the government as a woman owned business owner, you need to get WASB status. So woman owned small business and having, you know, your service disabled veteran owned small business and that's called sdvosb or your hubzone, having that certification is another way to enter into a community. So for me, I go to USWCC events. I just went up to Columbus a few months ago for their Midwest Contracting Summit and that was an incredible networking opportunity. I got to meet with people from Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is located in did you say your hometown was Dayton?

Well, no, my parents lived actually. My dad was in the Air Force and he was stationed at Wright Pat.

Oh, yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. So, you know, events like that are sponsored by organizations that are trying to support small businesses. And even if you're not a minority or a woman or a veteran, you can also look at the Small Business Administration. If you just Google SBA contracting, there are so many resources out there to help, you know, all the steps involved. And, you know, getting back to our bigger question about if you want to pursue being a prime government vendor, then you'll definitely want to look into SBA contracting resources to see what that process is like. It does take some time. You know, for us, you sort of have to start by getting a DUNS number through Duns and Bradstreet, and then you have to register in SAM.gov, and then you need to identify your NACE codes. It's a lot of acronyms. SBA does a really good job of explaining it all. And then if you want to differentiate your company, having an additional certification like our WASB is another good way.

I'm curious in terms of if you want to go the indirect route and approach a government vendor, which sounds like it's a smart way to get started, do you recommend reaching out to some of these vendors once you've done the homework you talked about a little bit earlier, just sending them a warm prospecting email saying, hey, I noticed you landed, you know, this, this opportunity. Here's where I may be able to help you. Should we connect? Is that a smart way of doing things, or is that a no, no.

In this industry, it's very smart. Chances are, I will say, I know I gave that strategy of searching for awards to see what organizations, what prime vendors are winning. Chances are if they won the contract, that they already probably have their project team in place for that particular opportunity. But what that does for you by seeing who's winning, that allows you to see the kinds of contracts that they take on, and it also allows you to know, okay, you know, this particular contract required annual report writing or grant writing. So I provide those services. I'm going to reach out to them, especially to their contracting specialist or the person in charge of federal opportunities for them, or public, their public sector strategist, or that person has different roles. It might just be their RFP coordinator, but you'd find the right person to contact at that company. And I think that framing your email or your outreach in that way by saying, we provide these kinds of services we see that you've won them before. That's a good strategy. I think an even better, probably more differentiated strategy is to find an upcoming solicitation that you think aligns well with. With what that prime vendor has won in the past. They may have their eye on it, they may not. Make sure that it incorporates some kind of service that could be subcontracted to you and that makes sense to you. But bringing opportunities to prime vendors and saying, hey, have you seen this? Are you interested? Do you want a partner? That is more enticing because it's kind of taking the legwork out of it for the vendor and, and giving them something that can be of interest. Another benefit that we all have as professional writers is that we're good at writing. So this whole process is proposal writing and it can be very time intensive and it's scrutinized. And these proposals, you know, proposals for federal contracts, you really have to, you know, dot all your I's, cross every T, make sure that the information is formatted exactly like they say. Sometimes these RFQs or solicitations, they're like 30 plus pages long. It takes a long time to even decide if the opportunity is worth applying for. So as you're thinking about networking and building relationships with primes, it's a good idea to maybe provide an opportunity that's specific and say, I'm very interested in doing this as a consultant or through my company. So are you interested in partnering? Partnering is really a really, really smart way to think about being a subcontractor.

Yeah, I can absolutely see that. And I can see how once you're in and you have a track record under your belt, then this becomes a lot easier, just like with the private sector. This has been fascinating, Katie. I had no idea that there are so many opportunities within the public sector. Of course, I mean, we know that this is. It's huge, but I had no idea that they were so varied, so diverse and so deep. And some of these are. How would you ever know Some of the things you described, These are what I like to call invisible opportunities. Right. Unless you're directly in contact with that particular agency in this particular role. It's just you'll never be exposed to some of this yet. Just a small slice of a slice of a slice of the market could be more the work that you can take on even with a team of five.

It sounds like, yes, absolutely. I truly owe the start of my company of Untold Content was born because of a government contract opportunity and because of how long and sustaining that is which so aligned to my I think what we all hold as consultants are our value system of believing that the best way to impact an organization is through lasting support and that the best writing happens in collaboration and in clear understanding of an organization's mission and how they operate. So the fact that government contracts are typically at least one year long, it's good for our values as consultants, but it's also really smart for our businesses and to help them grow.

I love it. Well, thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful advice and insights with us today, Katie. And before I say goodbye, where can listeners learn more about untold content and about your work?

Yes, yes, please please hop over to our website untoldcontent.com you can check out our blog. We are really excited. This year we are writing another book. This book is going to be about public intellectualism actually, so we'll be rolling out blog posts on different topics, everything from how to make communications accessible to how to translate research insights. And it's going to be a really awesome year in terms of our content strategy. But please join us. We're on LinkedIn, we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook NToldCo content and we just love sharing what we're learning as writing consultants and are very much interested in connecting with larger communities of writers. So definitely keep in touch and feel free to email me as well. I'm Katie Trouth Taylor so you can reach out to us@infanttoldcontent.com and also keep an eye on any opportunities that we post on our page for writers, especially as particular opportunities come up. We oftentimes contract or at this point we're very focused on growing our team. So internally by hiring well I can.

Tell you this about our tribe. Katie, you will get some emails.

Wonderful.

We got some great people on board. Again, thank you so much. I appreciate it. We'll make sure to include all those links links in the show notes including the one about capability statement and yeah, thank you.

Wonderful. Thank you so much. How fun. This is wonderful. I'm so grateful for this resource and as you call it, the Tribe. Take care.

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