#159: Client Gift-Giving — When You Should Do It ... and How to Make a Big Impact with a Small Bu...

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there. Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. I am your host, Ed Gandia, and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more and less time doing work they love from better clients. Just a reminder that you can find detailed show notes for this episode@bdb launcher.com Episode 159 and those notes are going to include a summary of our discussion here as well as links to resources we mentioned during the show. Should you give your clients some sort of gift? And if so, when is the best time to do this? And what should you gift? What should you give them? Should it be around the holidays, at the end of your first project, maybe, or some other time? These are great questions. I just recorded a great conversation with my colleague Sarah Griesenbach on this very topic. And Sarah just gave me some great ideas for how you can make the right decision for you. So which clients you should put on your list, how you should give gifts that really make a big impact without spending more than 20 or $30. And how to make this a little bit more automatic so you don't have to rack your brain for ideas every time, which can be exhausting. Sarah is a true gift giving master. She's also, and more importantly, a successful and very talented freelance writer out of Richmond, Virginia. And in this interview she is going to explain when to consider giving clients gifts. And just a quick hint, there are many other great opportunities outside of the holiday season. She's also going to talk about which clients you should give gifts to. How, how to do it right and again, how to pick gifts that were going to make a huge impact without spending more than 20 or $30. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Sarah Griesenbach. Hey Sarah, welcome to the show. Great to have you on board.

Yeah, thanks so much. I'm really excited to be here.

I always like to start by asking my guests to just hear a little bit about their business, you know, what they do, what kind of clients they work with, and of course, a little bit about your background. So there's something, you know, in terms of how you got started, how you ended up here, that's always interesting to hear.

Neat. Yeah. Well, this party actually got started when I trained to be a teacher and a couple years in, it became very clear it was going to play the role of a vampire on my life and I got sick and I hated it. So When I got really stressed out, it kept coming back to me how happy I was in college when I just plug in my headphones and spend the whole evening writing like a 5 to 10 page paper on absolutely random things. So once I started looking at what kind of jobs I should be working in, I quickly jumped into writing and editing and then jumped into marketing. And then at that point you could say I was fortunate to get laid off because I think how a lot of freelancers, it's kind of the only way to work up the courage to freelance is you don't have any other options. So I wanted to see if I could do what that marketing team had been doing for myself and I made it work. So that was over five years ago. And since then I've been able to outearn my full time income working part time every year. And a huge part of that is just thanks to people like you who are sharing, you know, those magical secrets of having the right mindset and positioning yourself with project rates and stuff like that. So thank you for my lifestyle.

That's awesome. Well, and listen, I'm just so impressed that you've been able to replace that full time income by doing this part time because I know that you're a mom now and expecting another one. And I mean, that's got to be amazing to be able to do that and have that time and flexibility without really sacrificing your income as well.

It is. I think I've mentioned a couple times it almost feels like it works against me because it really does feel like magic sometimes. So it makes me feel like, you know, I don't have control over it. It's just kind of happening to me. But you know, it started out that I needed to work part time because of an autoimmune illness and now you're right, I have a 16 month old and just every year getting to spend more time with him and having this freedom, I really appreciate it a lot more. So especially when I write to writers, I'm trying to focus on that theme of just being able to be as autonomous as possible. Because the full time working world, it takes a lot out of you, even if you love it. And if you don't love it, it just, it can feel like torture. So I'm really grateful to be in a position to be doing that.

You rarely hear somebody say, you know what, I'm going to go back into the workforce because I need more freedom and flexibility.

Yep. Yeah, it's always stability.

Exactly.

Yeah. You're riding that pendulum.

So Today we're talking about gifts for clients. And this is something that comes up often. Typically, I hear this question as we start approaching the holidays, you know, what do you guys, anybody do client gifts? So what, when, what type? And you had approached me about this because you have given this a lot of thought and there's a certain way that you feel about this. And I'm curious to know, before we get into details, how you feel about gifts for clients and why they're necessary and why they might be effective.

Yeah, I could almost say I have too much thoughts, too many thoughts about this because I'm sitting in front of 10 pages of notes. But wow. I think it really could be summed up by my experience at Target this morning, which I know is B2C, but we were both there for business. So I made a silly mistake while I was checking out and I needed the attendant to come over and help me. And her first response, she practically rolled her eyes and then looked down at the floor and then walked over to me, silently fixed what had gone wrong and then walked away. And I just couldn't help thinking like, what a missed opportunity that is where we both have to be here. I'm buying stuff, she's working. Why not make each other feel good in that process, literally just by making eye contact or acknowledging what was happening. So to me, I think gifts do that for the client relationship, for freelancers and that really I have like three particular things that I think show that it's a really good idea. So the first thing is showing appreciation makes you stop and feel good and your client also stops and feels good. And you know, when you're in this busy season, no matter how little you're working or how much you're making, it can just always feel like you need to be working more and just focusing more on the hard side of things. And so like slowing down to really say thank you or I'm a person on the other side of this email, I think can be really helpful.

I think that's a great, great point. So appreciation is really the first reason. That's heartfelt appreciation. That's a big one.

Yeah. And I think it's total kismet. But I saw an article from World Economic Forum I wanted to link to about the impact of thank you notes and how both recipients and senders, when they went and looked at their surprise, how they felt receiving and writing a thank you note, they found it's a really powerful source of well being and connection for both people. And the anxiety around that perceived awkwardness was almost always proved wrong. So if you're sitting there thinking, you know, that's weird, or that would call attention to me in a weird way, or what if I mess it up, you know, that's, that's so likely to not be a problem and the benefits really weigh out taking that risk. So I guess for me, thinking people became a way to step back and look at my profit and loss and say, no, things are actually going great. I'm not, I'm working too much. I need to slow down and actually appreciate the people who I'm working with. So when you stop and make time for that, it's really hard to say you can't find time or money to send, you know, 20 or $30 gift to somebody who paid you $20,000 last year.

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't really take much. It's really the act itself. Right. And it seems like there's a kind of metaphysical aspect to this. Not too woo woo, but the feeling I get from listening to you is that just taking the time to think through this and in the effort of just making the gift. Right. So finding something, buying it, sending it, that's time, effort and energy that I think really makes an impression because we don't see that a lot today that, I mean, it's easy to write a check, it's easy to send a gift card. But there's something about what you just described that really stands out.

Yeah. And you know, that's really the second point is making you stand out because the whole, you know, the strength behind being a freelancer, being a good freelancer is being proactive and showing people that you can take initiative and be more of a partner than just a penalty. And so we're always worried about being replaceable or just the sea or a face in the sea of freelancers who are just popping up all over the place. But I think sending a gift in a tasteful way can make people stop and see you as a professional and a partner and somebody who is actually proactively doing things and thinking about them beyond just a deadline. So definitely so true.

I think so much of winning the game today is about standing out in every way, in every aspect of your interaction. From prospect all the way to, you know, first project with a client, all the way to repeat work. It just, it's really about standing out because that's, that's what we're competing for, isn't it? The attention of our prospects and clients.

Yep. Yeah. And that, you know, kind of my Third point is exactly that. I think, most importantly, it's adding humanity to what we do. So even if a project fizzles out or you aren't the best fit for a writer, I feel like you've just grown your network in this really measurable and beautiful way. So no matter where the network or the relationship goes, like, you still have people out there who are thinking well of you and who know that you take your work seriously and you're going to go the extra mile for whatever you're doing.

So what are some appropriate times or situations to consider giving a client a gift?

So the first, very first gift I sent is hilarious. But I designed little cards and printed them out with Superman flying off the side of them. And I said, I hope your quarter has been super. A little gift card on it. I think at the time, I was just so jazzed to have any paying work at all. It was in my first quarter of freelancing when I was looking at taxes and realized I'd actually made enough money to keep going. So I quickly realized quarterly is a little excessive. I think that's going to be more of a gimmick than something that's meaningful. But I have found that with the onboarding process, it's a really important time to just add that extra level of surprise and delight. I think surprise and delight is a pretty common freelancing approach. But so a small gift right when they sign on and right after they've paid that first invoice, I think that kicks it off to show people that, you know, it's not just another assignment you're taking for granted, but it's actually a relationship that you're, like, looking forward to learning more about.

That's great. Yeah. What a great way to kind of kickstart that relationship, huh?

Yeah.

So the onboarding phase, you bring in someone new, pick something, and we'll talk more about gift ideas. But what are other maybe kind of natural places or times?

Yeah, I think there's some traditional times, like Christmas, where people are starting to think about, you know, just gift giving in general. So it's a really good reminder that it's time to send some gifts. I have found. I think you could argue that you run the risk of blending in with other gifts if you do Christmas, especially if you're gifting a whole office. I think that's only happened to me once where the gift wasn't acknowledged, and I'm pretty sure it's because it was probably put on a table with, you know, 20 other gifts. But I Think you could also go with something traditional? You know, if you write for accounting, you could do tax season, like right around when taxes are due. That's going to be. I feel like you could make some pretty hilarious jokes around April 15 or Cyber Monday if you write for tech. So just things that are kind of landmarks in your industry could really stand out.

I like that. I like those ideas. You're right. I think everybody just automatically assumes that between December 10 and December 23 is the appropriate time. But that's just one way of doing it. I remember reading his book by Harvey McKay years ago. I forget what it was. It was the envelope book, pushing the envelope or whatever. And this is the first time somebody had said, hey, forget about Christmas. Send a card and a gift around Thanksgiving, because nobody does that. And it's so true. I started doing that and I started getting great feedback and lots of appreciation from my customers at the time. This is before I became a freelancer. But then what happened is that book became a huge bestseller.

Right.

And then all these people started doing the same thing. So it wasn't as different as it was before.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, a lot of the time, I. Especially since becoming a parent, I've just run out of time. So it ends up being a New Year's gift. And I found that works really well, too, because it's a very natural. You know, you're thinking about your years. So here's a little something to be thinking about me and that. That kind of thing.

Yeah. It sounds like it doesn't really matter when I like your idea of onboarding. And then maybe at another time, pick something that's appropriate, maybe for your industry, or just pick something that works for you. Would you say that that's about right. So when you first onboard a client and then one time a year.

Yeah, definitely. Because one of the things I think we'll talk about when we think about risks is avoiding that sense that you're trying to buy their work. So if you're doing something a couple times a year, and then every time there's a new project, I think that's going to come off as just really off in a lot of ways if you try to do too much.

All right, so let's talk about gift ideas. And this is always a challenge for people who are trying to think of something. And I think this is what stops so many people. I know it's happened to me. It's like, well, I have good intentions, but I get stuck with a gift idea thing, and then I end up doing nothing. So what's a good way to come up with good, memorable and effective gift ideas? And maybe you can also give us some examples that have worked well for you or some other of your colleagues that you've seen do this.

Definitely, yeah. I have two guiding principles that I like to use. The first is that it's unique, which isn't very unique, of course, but I think what's going to set you apart the most is something that is special to you. So for me, I like to go for something like local food or gifts from a local boutique that, you know. You know, they might be distributed around the country, but they aren't going to be very common. So in the past, I think my favorite for the onboarding is there's a local tea shop called Kerrytown Tea that makes just really crazy flavors. And there's one that is my favorite. So I like to send that with a little tea cozy, or not the cozy, but the. The sieve. So you can actually make the tea with a notebook and pens and a nice note about how, you know, I hope they're. They find some time to get some downtime and just brainstorm some ideas of what we'll be working on together. So something that's really, you know, practical that they can use and that'll be hopefully unique because not many people have been to or even know where Richmond, Virginia is, which is where I am. So when I find something local, I have a pretty safe bet that they're not going to be able to find it wherever they live.

Now, do you ever worry with something like that that, well, what if they're not a tea drinker? Will this still have an impact?

Yeah, I think that especially if you're sending to someone in an office. What I really like about consumables, which is the other principle I like to use, is that even if they don't like it, they're going to be in an office where they can set that out and it's kind of a conversation starter of where it came from. I've had a lot of luck where everybody I've sent it to has said, wow, I love tea and this is going to be awes. But I think in that case, it's something that's also easy to share.

Yeah, I like that idea. It's like, I'm not a tea person. I may try one of them if I got something like that. But then my wife and my son actually love it, so I would give it to them. I think a lot of this, and this is Where I get stuck is try overthinking the gift and not realizing that 95% of the value or the impact is in the. The. The act itself and not so much, oh, it's got to be consumed. Like, we think, like the whole. The loop has got to close. And that's not true, is what I'm hearing from you.

Exactly. Yeah. Because it's more about that delight of getting a package with your name on it and just kind of exploring something new. So for them, like you said, even just a single cup of tea to try something new, you know, you're giving them a new experience and something to enjoy while kind of maybe reflecting on you a little bit. And I think that that's a payoff right there, even if they don't, you know, drink every drop in whatever you send.

Gotcha. So unique. Something that's consumable. Do you have any other guiding principles?

Yeah, I think consumable is really important. So I'm a sympathetic minimalist. So things that are professionally packaged, but that can be eaten or used or, you know, gone in some way so that you aren't adding to their clutter, I think is really important, because somebody in an office, you know, if they're not that into gifts or this isn't really their love language, so to speak, I guess we need work languages, not love languages. Yeah, but if that's not the way they like to be appreciated, then you want it to be something they can kind of shuffle off and not feel bad about. So to me, that means specialty candy or food that's professionally packaged. Notebooks, pens. I do like gift cards sometimes, I think, especially Starbucks. I always prefer to go local. But with Starbucks, you can send one just to somebody's email and you can see when they open it. So if something isn't opened and you're worried it went to spam, that one's that. That's an option that's really helpful to be sure that somebody has received what you're sending.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Although, you know, if I were to play devil's advocate here, gift card would be, I think, my last resort. Because if we're trying to stick to the unique factor, which I agree with you is important, you know, everyone sends Starbucks gift cards, and most people appreciate them for sure, and it's. It's consumable, but I don't know, I'm thinking maybe a little bit of extra time or effort could maybe make an even bigger difference.

I agree, and I actually even followed my own rule. There. Because the only time I've sent gift cards was a very specific time with an agency where we were working on a really tough project. Busy time. They were five to 10, excuse me, like four to five project managers and five to 10 projects all going on at the same time. So when that settled down and it felt like we could all breathe again, that's when I used the gift card to say, you know, not so much like here's a unique gift to kick off a relationship, but here's just a little something to brighten your day. So I think in that situation, it felt more like the gift card was not so much about the value of the card, but just stopping to say, hey, we went through a whole bunch together and kind of build the team that way.

I love that. So it's all about context, really.

Yeah, I think so.

I had someone that I sent a gift to a few years ago. She and her family had just moved to their. To a new home. And so I sent a Home Depot gift card. But the whole idea was, look, I know what it's like. You're going to be making trips to Home Depot three times a day. Here you go. You know, that kind of thing. I think that that worked. I prefer not to send them. But you're right. In the right context, that's brilliant.

Yeah. Because if you're, it's a new client and you're like, here's $50 to Walmart, that's not really going to. That might stand out in a bad way rather than a good way.

Agreed. Okay. Any other guiding principles? There is that, you know, do you think that's pretty good direction?

Yeah, I think that's really all I've focused on because so much of the gift giving process, I think, is about recognizing the other person and the relationship, but recognizing it in a way that's unique to you. So for every freelancer, there's going to be like five or six different unique things about you that you'd be able to use in that context. So if you're really into pets or animals and you could do something with that theme, or you've talked about pets or kids with the client, there's just so many different angles to take that in the conversation that I think that would be a really rich source of ideas.

Gotcha. One thing I've done, I don't know, I'm curious to see how you feel about this is I've given to a charity in their local area and sometimes if I can find this out, it's even better. Like a few times I've given, for instance, if I. I could tell based on their Facebook profile and likes, a little stockish, but that they like the Humane Society in. In their town, for instance. And I'm a big. We're big dog people here. So I gave to that in their name and then sent them. You write a notification that was cool, but many times you can't find what they really like, especially if it's a new client and you're trying to figure out what their likes and dislikes are. That can be tough.

Yeah, I think to me that's going to be something that happens a lot further on in the relationship. So a new client, I definitely got stalker vibes from that. But if this is somebody you've worked with for two or three years and you've had a lot of conversations, maybe not about pets, but just enough that you feel you know them, I feel like that could be totally appropriate.

So is that why they never responded to my emails? And after that a little stockish or.

They thought you were already reading your emails?

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so that's good stuff. Now you mentioned in terms of guiding principles of, you know, the uniqueness, something that's tied to you, maybe tied to them if you know something about them, especially after you've been working with them for a while. Are there any websites out there or companies that you feel just to kind of give people some ideas? I love your tea example. But any others that come to mind that can kind of get people thinking, jogging their, Their, their memory a little bit?

Yeah, I want to plug local business. So if you have a downtown area where you live in Richmond, we have this store called Mongrel where literally I think they just scan for really unique crazy products where you can just walk around the aisles for a couple minutes and just find really unique things that sometimes I'm surprised somebody even manufactures this kind of stuff. But. So I like Mongrel and there's another store called Tweed. But I think anything that's unique and local to where you live is going to be a great place to start. For the times when I've been kind of lazy or busy, I have resorted to Costco because you can send several gifts to separate addresses really easily. And you can get really popular food like chocolate gift baskets, pretzels, stuff like that. And then Starbucks, of course, is another kind of last resort.

I love that idea. I know what stores you're talking about. There's where they just have all this unique stuff and like, wow, I had no idea this was even a thing.

Yeah.

How. What a cool. Like who came up with this? Have you ever bought things like that as you see them in. Not have a person in mind yet. But you know that you. You could.

I haven't. I think the closest I've come is seeing a local set of letterpress cards that just say someone in Richmond loves you. So I bought a set of those because I knew I could not loves, but it had a little heart. So again, not stalkery.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that was the closest I've come. But yeah, I usually try to plan it out. So I'll. I'll definitely pre purchase notebooks like Moleskine notebooks that are small since I know I like to send those. But otherwise, yeah, I tend to plan them.

And the reason I ask is. And maybe this is just me. Okay. I am. There are some things that I'm horrible about and I ask myself, why am I so bad at this? One of them is shipping stuff. If I have to, I have to go somewhere, find it, purchase it, drive back home, go to the post office. And of course I've gotten better about this. I've brought in those priority mail boxes and I can do the click shipping and print the shipping labels and all that here. But even that feels like work and I know I won't get it done. So I have in the past, and usually with books, which by the way, I wanted to ask you about books. But I will buy pre buy, let's say a half a dozen, something I really like and then that way I already have it and that just removes a lot of the friction in the process, at least for me.

Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. So I definitely will buy in bulk when I know what the gift is. So like the tea, I'll have a couple of those on hand along with the tea strainer. So yeah, that's a great idea.

And do you. What about car? I know we're getting in the weeds here a little bit, but I'm just curious because you do such a good job of this. What about cards that you send along with this? Do you have like some really nice card stock or something that you use for this stuff?

I do, yeah. I like to localize that too. So I'll have you know the Richmond letterpress card or lately I've been using Richmond postcards. So on the back I can just have a really short message so there's something visual. If they like to have those sorts of things around and just leave a card out, there's something that's just pretty to look at or it's easy to throw away.

Got you. Okay, so I mentioned books a little earlier. Do you ever give books? What are your thoughts on that? Yay. Nay. Maybe.

Yeah, I have. I love that. Especially if you work for kind of publication style freelancing opportunities, because editors and writers are just notorious readers, so they're going to love having a new recommendation or something to check out. I think the two times I've done that, one was a client who I knew a little more personally. So I sent him a book. I think it's how to measure your life, which is kind of the blend of looking at your life through the perspective of being really successful in business. Because he was just a really high up executive who was kind of having that struggle of maybe, why am I doing what I'm doing a little bit, or how can I be happier while I'm being so successful? So I sent him that with a little gift card for frozen yogurt so he could take his daughter out and kind of, you know, do that part of life a little bit more.

That is so cool.

Yeah, but that's again, that's something that if I didn't talk to him so frequently and we hadn't been working together so closely, I feel like that could have been interpreted as, you know, hey, you work too much. Go be with your family.

Yeah, yeah.

So just knowing that context is really important, so.

Yeah, exactly. Going back to that idea of the gift really depends on where you are in the relationship. It's a little safer upfront and then you can get a little bit more personal down the road. I'm curious about budget. How much should you plan on spending? How can you make big impact cost effectively? Because it seems to me from listening to what you've shared that it's not so much about the money, it's really about the thought. But you could also maybe go too low. You can also overdo it. So what's the sweet spot?

Yeah, I wouldn't shop. Dollar store is probably just a good general life rule.

Yes.

So I'm always trying to aim for tasteful, not showy or meaningful like you said. So for me, that comes down to like maybe 7 to $10 per person or like 50 total if it's an entire marketing office that you're getting a little food for. Because I think if you, if you do go with the money, I think that can very easily get associated in somebody's head with, oh, well, we're spending blank on you. So you spent $100 on us, like that kind of thing. So I definitely want the focus to be on, you know, I'm just thinking about you in a not creepy way rather than, you know, I had a bunch of money because you pay me so much. So let me be really generous.

Yeah. With the money. Things with which a gift card would be the same thing. That is a really tough one. Right. Because I think most of us who have done this tend to overspend because we feel we compare it to what they've given us in terms of work. I think it's just kind of a natural human tendency, isn't it?

Yes, definitely.

And that could set a bad precedent, I think, and it's not as effective. I could send $100 gift card and like you said earlier, $20,000, then even that, even though that's an amazing gift, very thoughtful, that can feel like a really small percentage. And then I second guess myself, which defeats the purpose.

Yeah, yeah.

So those are some good parameters. I like that. In terms of other things that are non monetary, birthday cards, holiday cards, random thank you cards. You touched on this a little briefly. What do you do there? Is there something you do throughout the year that you feel is effective?

I was going to say that I really don't care for any of those things, but, but I know, but reading the article I talked about the World Economic Forum, it really kind of changed my mind just today. So it seems like if you have something that's really meaningful to share, I think, you know, if you're sending a card that's just, Merry Christmas, this is Sarah. And there's a picture on the front of like a goat or something, that's not really going to do anything. I feel like that's just wasted paper. But I think in a situation where you're genuinely connecting with the person you're working with, or maybe like in my situation, if I got a break in an industry that. So when I first started niching to hr, it was a really big deal for me to land a client in that niche where I felt like every assignment was just exactly what I wanted to write. They were proving everything without edits. And it just felt like this really natural fit. So in that situation, looking back, it would have been very appropriate to send a card that let them know that I felt the situation was special and that I really enjoyed working for them, not just as a freelancer, but as a person because they were helping develop me professionally. So I think if you have a situation like that, I think that could be really appropriate further on in the relationship. Because again, coming back to helping people know there's a person behind the computer, people want to know they're making a difference. So even if it's just with their freelancer, I think letting them know that they are having an impact on a personal level could be really powerful.

I couldn't agree more. And, you know, there's. There's been a lot of talk for years about all this competition from other freelance writers, especially in places like Upwork, you know, and there's this fear that that is dragging the market down, and I continue to insist that it isn't. Those are separate markets. There's definitely a wall between them. And one of the ways that you can ensure that that wall remains stable is to do those. These little things we'll be talking about here today. That's just one way. It's not the only way. You still got to do great work. You still got awesome. But I think you're really underscoring the importance of these things when it comes to being indispensable, being the obvious choice.

Yeah, And I think that was an evolution for me as well, because early on in the course I took with you, you were emphasizing how important it is to become that resource and that partner. And I just kept thinking, well, crap, half my value is just being on time and not being a hassle for them. Like, I don't have relationships, so how do I build my relationship, so to speak? So I think taking that time over the past year and a half to stop and actually have parts of my email that aren't business or actually remember details about them and do things like gifts, I think that's really helped me evolve as a freelancer and get to that. That level where I'm on the other side of the wall.

So fantastic. I love that. I love that. What I also love is everything you share here is you can tell it's not a gimmick. I mean, you're doing this because it all comes from the heart. I know we keep emphasizing that, but I do believe there is a metaphysical aspect to all this. And if it comes from the right place, it will be received the right way. It's not that it won't be received negatively if it's not. But I really do believe you make the best impact when it comes from the heart because you're going to make better choices and you're going to do it and deliver it in the right way. Now, I know going back to what is something I said earlier, I'm horrible about doing the Simplest things like driving somewhere, picking it up, going to the post, just horrible, horrible, horrible. My intention, they're really good, but I just don't do it. So how do we turn this into a process so that we don't forget? So it's really more of an automated thing. Not technically, but so it's easier to get more of an automated thing. Not technically, but so it's easier to get them. Do you have any tips or ideas there?

Yeah, I'm a really big fan of anchoring. So that idea where if you want to change something, you pair it with something that is already in your set of habits. So I think that's why pairing it with a major holiday or a time when you're naturally looking at all your invoices and reflecting on which clients were good and which clients you're gonna try to replace, which I hope is something everybody's doing towards the end of the year. So for me that means within a few weeks of closing the first project, I'm kind of assessing how things are going and if they're a good client for me. And so that's when I would plan the onboarding project and then Christmas and New Year's time for me is also when I would naturally be thinking about those things.

Gotcha. So give yourself plenty of time. Maybe set a reminder. Right. Even though we tend to be reminded about Christmas right around what, October now? September. But maybe even something as simple as setting yourself kind of an alert to start thinking through this and maybe looking at your client lists is that something would help absent minded people like me, you think?

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think another thing I kind of glossed over is having a certain gift type. So for me, my onboarding package is pretty much the same because I just really love it and I love sharing that tea with people. So, you know, when I'm looking at what I'm doing for Christmas or an onboarding project, I kind of have those things already in stock, so to speak. Like you said, with books that you pre buy. So making sure that everything's on hand and you aren't reinventing the wheel with every single gift you're sending out, I think we take a lot of the stress off of it.

Yeah, there's a certain cognitive load involved in making a decision every time. So if you can at least standardize the onboarding one, I think that's brilliant. I love that as we wrap up, we kind of touched on this indirectly, but I would like to ask you this question head on. Anything that we should be careful about when we're doing this kind of thing, any potential risks that you're aware of that we need to be mindful of?

Yeah, I think a theme has definitely been trying to avoid being tacky or brown. Nosing is another way to say that, because there's a really fine line between the writer who sent us that thoughtful gift and the gift giver who writes for us a bunch. So I think making sure that you don't cross that line by sending gifts that are too expensive or sending them too frequently is going to be really important. So, you know, for me, that means normal is between 30 and $50 for a gift, depending on how many people are going to be splitting it. One time I did go around $75 ish. But that was a really specific thank you for a big expense that a client had taken on for me. So, you know, the goal is to send something that's nice to meet you or know you, but not nice to take your money and please give me more because I'm sending you gifts kind of thing.

I think that's sage advice, Sarah. So I'm curious, what are you up to these days? What's going on? I know you write a lot of great stuff out there in terms of advice for writers, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Tell us what you're up to.

Well, my biggest project that I'm developing is a baby. So I'm planning my second maternity leave in two years for this October, which is stressful but exciting.

And congratulations, by the way. Congratulations. That's awesome.

But before that happens, I'm working with Andrea Emerson, who's another writer in the B2B space where we're going to try to put together a webinar on taking an energetic look on how to sell when you're a regular person and not a business person. And so share our experience of going from, you know, as writers, not really selling anything. In my case, usually getting sweaty and really nervous before I do that to comfortably landing new clients several times a year. So that's something we're looking forward to in, I think, late September.

Well, that's awesome. So how can we learn more about that and get notified with the exact dates and details?

Yeah, so my hub is 5FigureWriter.com and then I'm also pretty active on Twitter at Alya. Those are going to be the best places.

We'll make sure to include links. So five figure writer. Is that numerical five or spelled out?

It is spelled out.

Okay, perfect. So we'll include those links in the show notes. Guys, check it out. I've met Andrea before at a conference, a great lady and I'm glad you guys are tackling this subject because it's very much needed. Most writers we're not. We don't have a sales background and it's suddenly have to be pretty good at that. Right. Not just the writing.

And even if you can write sales, actually speaking the words can be really stressful. I've found.

Yes. So much easier to write them.

If I could sell all by email, I'd be fine.

Yes. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. This is very, very valuable. I get asked about this all the time now. I have a resource to point people to and I know listeners going to be right now are very appreciative of what you've shared.

Thank you. Yeah. It's my pleasure to spread the word of how fun it is to give gifts, not just because people get excited to get them.

The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more at B2B launcher dot com.