#238: Jude Charles on the Power of Video Storytelling

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there.

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast. I am your host, Ed Gandia, and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more and less time doing work they love for better clients. Just a quick reminder that you can find detailed show notes for this episode@b2b launcher.com episode 2:38. Those notes always include a summary of our discussion as well as links to the resources we mentioned during the show. We work in a copycat economy, and by that I mean that it's gotten harder and harder to differentiate yourself in the market these days. It seems like everyone else can claim the same thing as you can. That they're a great writer or copywriter, that they do excellent work, that they deliver copy on time, that they write magnetic copy or amazing content, that they know their clients market better than most. You get the idea, right? But there's one thing no one can copy, and they'll never be able to copy it. And I'm talking about you. Your personality, your life experiences, your personal brand, and your stories. Stories of how you got to where you are today. Stories about how you've worked with clients in the past or how you're working with clients now. Stories about why you do what you do or what you believe in or stand for. No one can copy those stories because they're truly, uniquely yours. And that's what we're talking about today. My guest is Jude Charles, and Jude is a very talented filmmaker who's produced documentaries for Google, Steve Harvey, and Coldwell Banker, just to name a few. Most recently, he produced a docu series on direct response copywriting superstar Stefan Georgi. And in the show notes, I'll link to the first part of that docuseries Jude and I talk about in this episode about the power of video storytelling and how you can harness this medium even if you're deathly afraid of a camera or you feel you don't have any stories worth telling anyone. And by the way, don't think we're just talking about filming a documentary here. I mean, that's one option you could do, but there are many options you can actually use to harness medium, many of which involve just a very short video. Anyway, give this one a listen because I'm confident that regardless of how you feel about video, you're going to walk away with some great ideas you can use to truly distinguish yourself in Today's competitive marketplace. Enjoy.

Jude. Welcome to the show, my friend. Great to have you here, Ed.

Thank you for having me. It's definitely a pleasure to be here talking with you this morning.

Yeah. And I'm excited about this topic. This is really interesting stuff and I know that it's something we certainly haven't addressed here and haven't addressed anything in this area with any kind of intensity, so I'm excited to jump in. Before we do that, though, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your business and your background, kind of that origin story, how you got here. Because I, you know, I'm sure it wasn't a direct path.

Sure. So, first and foremost, I am a brand strategist and filmmaker. I help entrepreneurs tell their story, and then I take that story and I craft a documentary or documentary series out of it. How I got started in this business was that, you know, as a kid, I was an eight year old who wasn't the one that like played outside, like played basketball or football or even inside the house played video games. Instead, I would write stories and I would write these stories of what I thought my future life would look like. So I wrote books like the Police Life of Jude Charles, because, believe it or not, I wanted to be a police officer growing up. I also wrote like the Baseball Life of Jude Charles, just again imagining what my future life could look like. What is it that would be doing in the future? And so as I got into that was eight years old. But when I became 16 and 17 years old, I got into high school and I took a TV production class. And so I started learning these stories that I was writing. I was learning how can I turn those into videos. And so the teacher of that classroom, Mrs. Donnelly, taught me everything that she knew about video production. And then on May 5, 2006, my junior year of high school, Ms. Donnelly walked into the classroom and she handed me a yellow envelope. And I said, what is this? And what had happened the day before is that Mrs. Donnelly said to me, you know, you're really talented at this. You should start a business. But I hesitated because I'm the last of 10 children. My father was a construction worker. My mom was. She worked at a chair factory. So there weren't any entrepreneurs in my family. But on that day, May 5, 2006, in that yellow envelope was my first set of business cards. And that's how I got started with the video production business almost 15 years ago. And it took a while in the beginning to kind of get my Footing, because, again, I knew nothing about entrepreneurship. But after the first five years, I started working with a woman by the name of Keisha Dior. She was building a cosmetic business from the ground up. And I had been documenting this whole entire journey. And so when she launched the company and she launched this documentary, within 12 months of doing that, she had made $1 million. Wow. And I said to myself, wait, okay, so there's something here that I have that's valuable. And that was when I transitioned into only focusing on working with entrepreneurs, helping them craft their stories, and then putting it into, like I said, either documentary or documentary series. And that's how we're sitting here talking today.

That is fascinating. I'm assuming you made that connection because you were writing those stories about yourself. So you, from a very early age connected those dots of not just a video production, which is a kind of a technical thing, but then the art component of storytelling, but more specifically somebody's story to bring out kind of who they really are as a human.

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, I often think to myself when I was writing as a kid, I think what I was looking to do is like, figure out who I was or who I would be. Who did I want to look like? And I think today, as I continue to create these documentaries for entrepreneurs, I think it's the same thing. Like, even though they've built successful companies like Keisha Dior or like Stephan Georgia, who we'll talk about today, I think that ultimately we're all just. We're putting out there the vision of where we see ourselves going, but we also the vision of where we see the people around us, the world that we've created, where that we see that going. I just wanted to understand what that would look. Feel like. It's like a three dimensional view into what the future could look like.

Yeah, I like that because, you know, I've seen and I've seen some of your work, but I've seen some documentaries of people who, I mean, you know who they are. There are. So these are public people. But it was interesting. They were constructed in a way that you got to see the day to day unedited, you know, it's almost like the camera wasn't even there. You could tell it wasn't rehearsed and you really got to feel like, you know, that person, you know.

Yeah.

A totally different side. So, in fact, that. Let's talk about Stefan. So you recently produced. Because this is going to kind of hit home for a lot of us because you recently worked With a copywriter, very well known copywriter, Stefan. Georgia. Tell us about how that came about because I'm interested to hear. Okay, a copywriter I can understand. A traditional entrepreneur, maybe I can understand, you know, a public figure, but a copywriter. So how do you guys connect and what did you do for him?

Sure. So Stefan Georgi has a very fascinating story where he was within the last, literally decade, less than a decade, eight years, he's gone from a door to door salesman where he was only making just about $40,000 a year, to one of the most well known direct response copywriters in the industry, grossing over $700 million for himself and his clients. And when I met Stefan, it was literally about maybe nine months ago. So I met Stefan at a Mastermind, and he was at a point in his life where he was transitioning from just being a copywriter to. And being behind the scenes to wanting to teach and train other copywriters, wanting to teach and train other marketers and helping them understand how to do marketing and build bigger businesses. And so when we met at the Mastermind, we got to talking a little bit about that, and he was again, already in that transition phase, but he wasn't sure how he would share his raw, personal story in a way that would attract more people to what he's doing and the work that he's doing. And so we got to talking a little bit because obviously I had been doing that for years at that point. And I just asked him, like, who are you? I didn't want to hear about his copywriting career. I didn't want to hear about even the. Some of the other businesses that he's started and invested in. I wanted to hear who are you on an everyday basis. Who are you? How would you describe yourself? And the thing that you'll learn about Stefan is the same way I'd encourage your audience to watch part one of the documentary series. You'll notice that I start with his home life and his relationship with his wife and his daughter. Because that's when you meet Stefan, that's what he talks about first. He doesn't talk about the amount of money that he makes. He doesn't talk about, you know, being a successful, quote, unquote, successful copywriter. He talks about, you know, the joy of being a father. Right. He talks about his wife, who was actually the person that introduced him to copywriting when they met in Vegas at a poker table. And so I talked to him a little bit about that. But then, you know, he was very serious about moving Forward. And what I do with each of my clients before ever pressing record and ever pulling out the video camera, is I do a session called a road mapping strategy session. And the reason that I do that is because for me, myself, I'm looking to dig deep to find out who that person is. And so in that session, we'll go through three different steps. It's clarity, dramatic clarity, dramatic demonstration, and then dramatic leverage. And dramatic clarity is all about, like, digging deep into the core of who Stefan is. Like, I got a little bit of it the first time I met him, but then we went deeper and, like, spoke about it for, like, four or five hours, talking about, like, everything from the moment that, you know, he talks about in the documentary how, like, his father died to going to Vegas and then meeting his future wife, who wasn't his wife at the time. And so we go through that, and I figure out, okay, what are your core values? What are your philosophies? What do you believe in? What are some of the other stories that you share? And then from there, once we get very clear on his brand, get clear on the core values, philosophies, then I look at, okay, how do we demonstrate this? Because it's not just about telling me who you are. It's about showing it what illustrates this so that people will believe this is who you are. And then dramatic leverage is about making sure to market that video series to as many people as possible. It's not just about sharing it once on YouTube or Facebook and saying, hey, this is what I've done, And then that's it. It's more about, like, how do you share it over and over? And so that's how this relationship with Stefan has come up about. Because he's wanted to show people a different side of him. They know him as a copywriter, but he's so much more than that. But how do you show that? How do you go from just telling people that, hey, I'm so much more than just a copywriter, to showing them so that they believe in you and they're willing to follow you and everything that you're doing?

Got it. So maybe this is not the best comparison, but to me, this sounds like an about page on steroids. I mean, like, the hundredth degree, right?

Oh, it's a perfect ex. Yeah.

It makes it come alive. Right? But some of the same elements are certainly or should be there. Now, I'm curious. What was his motivation for getting that out there? Why did he feel it's like, okay, an about page is not going to be enough. I want to create this docu series with you.

I think for him it's about scale and depth, you know, and about Page, especially with these. You know, it's ironic because with Stefan, he's a copywriter, he writes words for a living and he's really good at writing those words. He's really persuasive, right? But like you mentioned, with a documentary series, it brings it to life in a way that words cannot. Right. The beginning scene of him in this documentary series is him playing a guitar and then you see his daughter come in and she basically doesn't like him playing music, right? And so that moment that he spends with his daughter, he's talking about how he wants to raise his daughter. It's hard to do that in words and get the same feeling, the same emotion of what he's talking about. And you see the joy that he has. Right.

If you started writing that and you're about Page, you would lose me.

Exactly. And so I think for Stefan, that's what it was about. He understood the power of video, but he didn't know how he would do it himself. He didn't know how, but he understood that this video element would really bring to life who he is. And like I said, that's what he focuses on more like, Stefan does a daily email list. He has a daily email list and he focuses a lot on sharing not only just tips and, you know, marketing advice, but he also shares the personal parts of his life. But again, I think he realized like, okay, this documentary series would do this on steroids like you mentioned, right? Like it would do it in a different way that would bring it to life. But it's kind of like what I said earlier. It'll bring it, it'll give people a three dimensional view into who he is. It's not just about the business side, it's about his personal life. It's about giving people access to him in a way that's never been done before. So that again, people will know, like, and trust him. They know who he is, they like what he stands for, and then they trust that he's the person that can guide them on the journey.

Now, somebody might listen to this and say, okay, well, who's going to watch a documentary about me? So how would you answer that? Especially if my target audience are marketing directors at hospitals, for instance.

I think that documentary is just a word, right? Let's think about it in the terms of video, because the documentary, honestly, it could be 30 minutes, it could be an hour. But it could also be a three minute video. I think what I love about the word documentary is because it's, it's documenting real life. It's documenting who you are at your core. It's kind of like putting a camera on a wall and then just seeing how your life unfolds. And I think even though if you are a writer who works at a hospital or works for a finance company, it's like you're thinking to yourself, well, this is a corporate environment. Why would anyone want to sit back and watch me or watch a story about me? Well, there's a couple things I think about when it comes to that one. You want to have the ability to stand out, right? You want to be able to look different, especially in a competitive market like copywriting or writing in general, you want to be able to stand out. Like writing words on the screen or writing words on paper is not as exciting as someone who may enjoy. Even though you're a writer, you may enjoy rock climbing, but how does rock climbing influence the work that you do? Right. The idea of going rock climbing makes you far more interesting and fascinating. And why is that? Because we as human beings connect with people. Even though I'm hiring you to do a specific thing, which may be writing content for my blog, right? I want to know who you are. I want to get to know who you are so that we have a deeper connection. And that way, how you write this work, for me, it's influenced by this deeper connection that we have. And I think that is the reason to do a video of yourself talking about yourself and showing your world, giving people a three dimensional view into your world. Because it's not just about the thing that you do. Anybody can do the thing that you do. Literally anybody. And that's the way that certain clients look at it, right? Like they're just looking at a whole bunch of resumes of all the people saying the same thing, that I can do content, copywriting, or I can do email marketing or anything else, right? Like, but at the end of the day, it's like, what makes you different? Why would I choose to do business with you versus every other option available to me? And what makes you different, what makes you unique, what makes you stand out, is your story. No one else can copy your story because it's your true authentic story. But it's not just about telling it, it's bringing it to life.

I love that.

I love that.

You're right. Nobody else has the same story. A lot of people can do what I do. So One of the things that I often hear when I'm getting coaching clients, for instance, to write their about page, let's not even talk about video, is this resistance to putting yourself out there. For a couple of reasons. It feels like it should be about the prospect of the visitor on that website, not about me. So why should I write about me? And second, it's this. And when you really, you have to coax it out of them. But it really boils down to the fact that I was raised not to talk about myself and brag about myself. I think it's a very American and really more of a kind of a European. It's like a Protestant thing, this Protestant ethic of, you know, very reserved, very stoic, don't talk about yourself. That is wrong. I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah. You know, I was raised like that. I mentioned a little bit earlier that I am the last of 10 children. And for us in the household, for the kids in the household, we were raised, you know, not to be braggadocious, to be humble, to not try to pay, beat your chest, so to speak. Even if you want a game, right? Like let's say even if you won for I used to run track in high school, even if I ran track. And I. Not to celebrate too much, to be happy, but not to celebrate too much. And I think that even with what I'm talking about with video storytelling or even just an about page, writing your about page, I don't think it's bragging as much as connecting. I used to be like that even when I started the business that I wouldn't even tell my own story. I'm here, I am going to clients and saying, hey, I can tell your story, but I'm not even sharing my own story with them so that they can feel a connection. That story of me as a 17 year old with Ms. Donnelly handing me my first set of business cards, for years I never shared that story until I decided to one day and realize how the person leaned in and wanted to ask me more. Like, why did she do that? Like, you know, a teacher never does. That's so powerful. Like how this teacher had enough courage in you, she saw something special in you that she would hand you your first set of business cards. She went out of her way to get you business cards. I think what that does is it opens the door to connection. It opens the door to wanting to find out more again. It begins this conversation that's so much different than just, hey, okay, what kind of content do you need me to write for you and you know, what's the deadline like, it opens the door for a deeper connection. And I think that, that if you think about it from that frame, if you think about it as I just want to be able to connect with this person so that they see me for me and not just the thing that I can do, then it's not bragging as much as it is just connecting. It's about allowing people to know who you are. And that's the way that I look at it. Even like speaking on this podcast right now. Years ago, I would have never done this. I would have said, hey, I don't need to speak on a podcast. You know, my work, quote, unquote, speaks for itself. Like, I do really great work. But this is so much more than just me coming on here to talk about video storytelling and the tactic, right? Or a tool that you can use. This is about understanding, hey, I'm just like you. I was in the same place as you, looking to get better clients, premium clients that will pay me not just because I'm doing videos for them, but pay me based on the value that I create. They pay me based on the person that I am and just really trusting my expertise. Right? But how do you get someone to trust you is you show them the behind the scenes. You show them more than just, again, the thing that you do. I want to stress on that because I think that's the really the only thing that makes this different. Who we are, that's how we connect every single day. The way that you make decisions on the friends that you have or the people that you allow to continue to be in your space is based on who they are, not just the thing that they can do for you.

Couldn't agree more. You hit on something really important. Because as I've listened to some of your answers, what's becoming clear to me is, look, if you want to do kind of average work for average clients, for average fees, you don't need to go here. I mean, you could be fine not ever doing this. But if you, this is just businesses and every business is becoming so competitive. And if you want to work with the best clients, to me, the way I always look at it is you're forming a partnership like it's really a relationship. And in order to do that, in order to develop the kind of trust you need to attract the right kind of partner thinking, partner minded clients, you need to forge that connection. And what you're saying is, you know, this is a beautiful, perfect medium to do that?

Yes. Yeah. You know, I want to give one more example because I think for sure we talk about copywriting and writing and writers, but I want to give a completely different example with a business coach, business strategist. Now, on the surface, business coach, business strategist, they what do they help you do? What do coaches in general help you do? They just help you to, you know, learn business better. They help you to make better deals. Right. But this business coach specifically, her name was Darnell Jervy Harmon. I worked with her and we created a documentary series around, you know, again, showing the behind the scenes of her business, showing who she really is as a wife, as a mother, to be as a woman, like showing those different aspects of her life. But to be honest, she wasn't comfortable at first sharing that story, her journey through motherhood, specifically, because again, she's a business coach. Why would anybody need to know about her journey through motherhood or her journey about, you know, getting married and different things like that? Well, what makes it special, her story specifically is that Darnell got married later. She got married at 42, and this is her first marriage, getting married at 42. And at the same time that she's getting married, she's also has decided with her husband, okay, a year later, they're going to try to start have kids. The first pregnancy, unfortunately, ends in a miscarry. The second pregnancy, she goes through a bad round of ivf, Right. And so here she is going through this journey of trying to be a mother and it's not going well. So what does she do? She decides that, you know, even though this isn't going well, I'm still going to have faith and I'm still going to believe that this child is coming. So I'm going to build a nursery and I'm not just going to put a crib inside of it, but it's going to be a full out nursery as if the child was already here. Now, the correlation and the connection with that is here's a woman who's had to go through a difficult moment in her life and she had enough faith to continue to push through. Business is hard, whether you're a freelancer or you're a full time entrepreneur. Like, at the end of the day, you're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner, and it's hard. And even when you can't see your way through it, you still have to have faith. Well, that's the connection that's made. Not just because she said, hey, business is hard. You need to have faith, keep going. But because you got to see her life as it played out, as she is still on this journey of trying to be a mother. And it's like, okay, why wouldn't I hire her as a business coach? If she can do that in her own life, if she can demonstrate that this is what she's doing right now, I know she can help me. And, you know, this is just business. She's having to go through almost like the fight of her life with wanting to be a mother because this is something that she desires. Right. And I think, again, when we talk about connection and we talk about building trust and we talk about just working with premium clients. Premium clients, at a certain point, is not just about the thing that you can do, because, again, they could hire anyone to do that. What they're looking for is, who are you? And is that the person that I want to help continue, that I want in my world to help me continue to build this business?

Yeah, man. That's powerful stuff. I mean, the vulnerability required to tell that story. I mean, if you don't forge a connection with that person, I mean, whether you hire them or not doesn't really matter, then something is wrong. Right. It's like, you know, as a fellow human, you suddenly understand that person from an emotional side and can certainly, even if you haven't been a parent, you can certainly understand that's. I. Yeah, I get it. I get it. I want to come back, you know, as we start wrapping up and you kind of gave us some of this a little bit earlier. But if something is. If somebody out there is. They get it. They want to do something like this. And whether it starts, you know, really basic and elementary, they want to, you know, kind of version 1.0 of either a video or something a little bit more meaningful than just, you know, plain boring about page. You started with the, you know, some of these questions. What are some other things they could ask themselves? You know, one of them was, who are you? Right. But that's a really broad question. So what are some things that they could ask themselves to start getting the answers they need and go down the right path?

Yeah. So I would start with, first and foremost, connecting the dots of how did you get to where you are today? So if you heard me talk about my own origin story in the beginning, I talked about, like, being a kid at 8 years old writing books, then 17, starting a video production company, you know, then five years later with Keisha Dior being successful at a documentary that I created. It's Kind of led me down this path. We'll talk a little bit, like, connect those dots and look at the centralized ideas to what has led you down this path. So that's one thing. That's the first thing. The other thing is, like, what do you stand for and what do you stand against? What is it that just gets under your skin that, you know, you just. You can't. When you see it happening, it just. It. It bothers you. Like, for example, many people would like to say they have integrity, but what does that really mean, and what does that look like? Why do you stand for integrity? Why is it important for you to tell the truth? What happens to you when you don't tell the truth? So what do you stand for? What do you stand against philosophies and beliefs? What does time mean to you? What does money mean to you? What does family mean to you? What does health mean to you? Everybody has a different way of how they talk about those different things. And what that does is it helps you begin to shape stories when you think about, you know, like, for me specifically, I didn't go too deep into the Keisha Dior story, but the same day that Keisha I found out that Keisha Dior had made $1 million from a video that I had created for her was the same day that my car had been repossessed for the second time in eight months. And I was struggling as an entrepreneur. But that moment gave me hope, and it made me realize that, you know what? There's a better way of doing this. If I can create value for another client and she can make money, there's. It definitely means I'm good at what I'm doing, but I need to find a different way to build this business. And what that does for me is it changes the story that's in my head that maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe there isn't any value there. It shows me that there is a different way. And so one of my core values is death versus with another one is adventure and taking the road less traveled. I think in that moment, when I found out that Keisha Dior had made a million dollars, but my car had just gotten repossessed, there's this great dichotomy there. Very. You know, the very big difference there. I could have been bitter in that moment. Instead, I decided to take the road less traveled, where I continue down this hard path. Right? So that story there, even though I told you my core values, adventure, or my core value is depth versus with. I can tell A story that illustrates that point. And so I think that's the second thing, is you want to, okay, think about, what do you stand for? What are your core values, the moments that have led you to where you are today, and then start writing those stories. Because story, all story is. I know, it's a buzzword, and people have complicated it a little bit over time with story structure and different things like that. But if you really think about it, at its core, a story is all about a very specific moment in time. And so you take those words that you've kind of written in the first phase, and then you think about a very specific moment in time, and then think about how you illustrate those very specific moment in times. If it is about, you know, your life is really centered around your family. Okay, tell me a little bit about your family. Tell me about, you know, the day that your son was born or the day that you spend playing catch with your son, or even just if you love cooking, maybe that's your thing. I showed Darnell in her documentary series Cooking, and she runs a Mastermind where she rents out a house and a mansion, specifically, and she cooks breakfast for her attendees in the morning. And it doesn't drain her. That's what she loves to do because she loves cooking. So I think showing those different parts of your life, how do you think about that? What is that? You tell me about your core values, you tell me about these stories, but how do you illustrate it? How do you bring it to life where you're either showing behind the scenes or maybe just a live illustration of what these stories are, and then finally sharing it, right? Sharing it with as many people as possible. If you're going first and foremost, obviously, the easiest place is on your about page, your website. But also, just like before, getting on this podcast with you and I shared videos with you, I shared Stefan's video, I shared my reel. I shared different things, and I do that over and over. It's not just today when I'm getting on this podcast, but I shared again over and over. So I think that's kind of the structure, right? You start with writing down everything, and then you just pull out. This isn't. I'm not saying that you need to. I'm not doing this podcast because I want you to hire me or call me or anything like that. If you do. Great. But I think you can start today with the cell phone that you have in your pocket. Right? Like, cell phone.

That's such a great point right there, man. This doesn't require this big, huge jump and. Okay, well, one day, you know, when everything, all the stars are aligned. I mean, you can start right now, right now, today.

Like as you're listening to this, the moment you finish up, start writing out these stories. And again, don't complicate it. Just take 30 minutes and start writing it out. Start thinking about it, and then pull out your cell phone and just start recording. Because I think, you know, this technology has become accessible to us. And I know for sure nowadays people are just sitting in front of a camera talking because that's the easiest thing that you can do. Well, again, we're looking to stand out, we're looking to build connection. How do you do that? Just start documenting your real life. Documenting. Especially if you're, you know, you're a mom and you're writing, but your children are also at home now because of coronavirus or Covid. Like, what are your children doing? Like, are they. What kind of projects are you doing with them? Because now you've had to learn to be a little bit creative because they're home more often now. I think that you can document that and you could show that. And again, it builds a deeper connection because we're all going through the same thing right now. And so that's obviously one way to connect. But show that. Show that moment that's happening in your life and how you're handling it in a different way than maybe someone else is handling it. Start that today with the cell phone that's in your pocket. Whether it's an iPhone or Android, every cell phone nowadays has a really great camera. Just start doing it today. I love it.

I love it. I couldn't agree more with that. It's the things start moving when you start taking those first initial steps and things don't have to be perfect for you to start getting where you need to go. So it's been wonderful. Jude, thank you so much for sharing this with us. And I want to encourage everybody, listen, again, don't think, oh, well, this is for big time people. I want you to kind of focus on the core principles that Jude talked about here. Really, at the end of the day, nobody can copy your story. And storytelling is obviously a huge buzzword in marketing, but let's face it, it will never stop working. It will never stop because that's how we're wired. We're wired to respond to stories and people want. When there's so much noise, people really want to know who the real you is. They want to work with someone who resonates with them. And this is a very powerful way of doing that. So, Jude, where can I send people to learn more about you and your work?

Yeah, so the best place to connect with me is I also run a daily email list and the best place to get it there is judecharles co list. I know you'll connect it in the show notes, but that's the best place to connect with me. If you want to, you know, learn more about storytelling and how do you connect with someone and how do you build your personal brand, that is the best place to do that. I share some stories as well behind the scenes of the clients that I'm working with and how they're doing it, how they're thinking about it, some of the same apprehensions that you have. My clients also have, believe it or not, even though they may have built big businesses, they still have the apprehension of being vulnerable and sharing their true, authentic selves. And I talk about how they work through that and how you can do the same thing. So again, that's JudeCharles Co list.

Perfect. We'll include all these links that you shared with me, including some of your work here in the show notes. So thank you, Jude. This has been very, very informative and inspiring. So thank you for coming on today.

Ed, thank you for having me. Definitely a great conversation. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to share with your audience the.

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