#271: Hiring Your Kids to Help You in Your Business with Linsey Knerl

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there. Welcome to another episode of the High Income Business Writing Podcast, the number one podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more and less time doing work they love for better clients. With over 1 million downloads from listeners just like you across 101 countries, I often encourage my coaching clients to adopt a who not how mindset. And that's from the amazing book by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy with the same title, who Not How. Essentially, this means accepting that you're not necessarily the best person to handle every single role in your business. So rather than trying to figure out how to perform every single task really well, you're much better off focusing on what you personally do best and then finding other people, other who's, if you will, who can help you with everything else. It's not just a time saving delegation strategy, it's also a performance improvement strategy. Because when you spend more time on your unique abilities, what you do best, you're able to produce better work. Common sense, right? And when you find other people to help you with the things you don't really enjoy, or maybe you don't understand very well, like taxes for example, or you don't do very well, you'll end up with a better, stronger business. And that's because the who's who help you with the tasks and projects can typically do them better, faster and cheaper. At least if you find the right ones. I know this is starting to sound like a Dr. Seuss book with all the who's, but it's a really important concept and it's one that I believe in tremendously. And today I want to give you a great example of the use of this concept of who, not how. I'm joined by someone who's taken this idea to a whole new level. Not only is she getting all kinds of help from other who's, but these who's happen to be her own children. Lindsay Nurrell is a freelance writer and mom of six children. And over the past few years, she's been paying her kids to help her run and grow her freelance business, doing legitimate and valuable work for her. Not only is this helping her focus on the aspects of her work she does best and enjoys most, she's also teaching her kids invaluable lessons that will stay with them forever. And she's honestly been able to produce better work by having her children help her. They're earning their own money, doing real work for a real business. And Lindsay is able to benefit financially thanks to special provisions in the US Tax code about hiring your own children. In this interview, Lindsay explains a number of things. First of all, how this idea came about, what her kids do for the business, how she distributes, assigns, and manages their work, how much she pays them, what her kids have learned about business and work ethic and time management and resourcefulness and much, much more. As a father of two, I found this to be a fascinating discussion, and I was very impressed with what Lindsay has done in the way she runs her business. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. Lindsay, welcome to the show. Great to have you here.

Thank you.

Well, this is a topic that I'm very excited about. It's funny because when you reached out to me about it, I had heard about this from a couple other people and I thought, what a cool ideas. I'm excited to dive in. Before we do that, though, why don't you give us a little bit of. Of background on you, so maybe tell us a bit about your business today, what kind of work you do, what kind of clients you work with, and then a little bit about how you maybe got to this place. The origin story, if you will.

Sure. So currently I'm doing a lot of content, a lot of branded people, and businesses thrive in an often difficult world. So it kind of feeds two of those things that I'm looking for. And. And I got started really blogging and just magazine writing for, like, rural lifestyle parenting, you know, pitching here, pitching there. Just kind of worked my way in over time. With the Internet being such an accessible way to write and meet people and sell yourself, I think, you know, I just had the drive to do it. So it wasn't really a question of if. It was just how long was it going to take for me to build this business that I wanted to build.

Very cool. You said you've been doing this for 13 years. That's a long time. Yeah, that's like, you know, whatever, 80 years. And in freelancing time, it is.

When you check those surveys, how long you've been freelancing, it's way down at the bottom, almost next to other. So that's how you know you've made it.

That's awesome.

So I know either of them on the same day. So I have to be very clear. Like, today's a work day. Like right now I'm in an office that I rent, you know, to have that quiet space to work and record and interview people. And then when I'm home, that's when I'm home. And so we keep these boundaries. Also my husband, he's in the business as well, doing a lot of the research and the admin. And so we're really partners in this. We trade off. And the kids honestly have to learn to be mini productive adults. And that's part of what we'll talk about today. But part of their upbringing is how they can be help to the business and the family. And not just kids that need constant tending to because we're trying to get them out in that world and hopefully help them kind of have an entrepreneurial spirit as well. So it kind of flows with our goals as a family. And it works. It's difficult, but it works.

That's really cool. Do you ever do some work at home as needed, or do you keep those strong boundaries and only work in your office?

Well, as a homeschooling parent. And also we have like a small homestead. So there's a lot of things that need tended to at home. I do all admin, like answering emails, invoices, you know, those types of things that kind of don't need your full quiet and full. You know, you can kind of get up and help a kid with something. I do quite a bit of that at home. So about half the time is at home with that sort of thing. But the put your head down. Like I need to figure out some numbers or interviewing where you have to be very professional. That all happens off site.

Makes sense. One of the things that you've done that I found to be pretty unique is the fact that you have found ways to bring your kids into the business, actually hire them to help you. I'd love to know more about. And I know this is where we're going to spend a lot of time discussing what you have them help you with. But I'm first curious about when this idea got started and kind of the early days of that and how that kind of, you know, that whole process began.

Sure. Well, actually came out of desperation. Like most great business ideas, it was me being pregnant, I think for the fourth or fifth time and having a little one and having to tend to this little one that had special needs and things that needed to be just. It was urgent. And I had deadlines for some blog posts that I was doing for a client for a sponsored campaign. And we needed photography done. And my teenage daughter at the time, who loved photography, I just handed her the camera and I said, go out, take some pictures. Of this project that we'd worked on. You know, I'm kind of wanting to see some ideas for lighting and how this all works. And I am not a photographer. I write. That's what I do. And she came in and these pictures were amazing. And I thought, okay, my kid is now, like, surpassed me in talent in this area, which is probably not hard to do. And I said, well, go out and do the rest of them. Like, see what you can come up with. And so she did most of the photography for our business for a very long time. And I started to say to myself, okay, this relieved me of this huge burden because I'm not very good at it to begin with. It's not the core of my business, so it's not a threat to it. And also, it's giving her an opportunity to make a little money and find things she might be passionate about. And so we just kind of went with it. When we found out about some of the other benefits, financial, tax, raising the kids in a way that kind of helps them be entrepreneurial. It just seemed like this huge aha moment that I couldn't not see once we realized it.

That is so cool. So, yeah, you scratch your own itch. Let's talk more about how that evolved then. So she started with the photography. Where did it go from there? And how have you then brought your other kids into the business to help you since then?

Sure. So a lot of what I've had to do is read and review and look at some of the things I did for a while was like, tech and some educational materials. And it was a lot of material. And so I was having to approach it from a parent or an educator or a facilitator perspective, but also to kind of get the story. I needed to kind of see, like, what some kids would think about it. And so while I couldn't use my own children and say, okay, this is what kids as a generation think of this, I could get some good starting points on where to kind of follow the story by having my children look over some of these materials. They would say things like, oh, this is a cool program, mom. I could see us doing this with it, and that it was basically just fertile ground for ideas brainstorming. Anytime I get a piece of tech or educational product or even just a new trend on the Internet, I kind of pass it by my kids and get conversation. They're like little mini consultants is actually what, like, the next logical step was in that process of hiring them.

Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, it's kind of like in house focus groups.

Yes.

What about. So sounds like a lot of those things were, you know, consumer facing, kind of everyday tools, technologies and concepts. But were there situations where you're writing about medical devices or. That's just an example. But something that maybe, you know, my kid may not be able to help me with that. Was that a little bit more challenging or, you know, that. Did you get really creative at that point and then just start looking for other things that they could help you with?

Sure. So the, I guess the beauty of being a generalist, you know, I have like my favorite three, you know, industries I like to write about at any one time. But a lot of the projects I take on are within, you know, a set of four to five industries. And so I tend to gravitate towards industries that I'm interested in, my kids are interested in. I actually had like a 3D printing white paper that I had to do, and I wanted to be able to approach it from a fresh perspective. So one of my teenagers who's very into that space, I said, throw some trends at me that you're seeing in that area. And he was able to point me to some blogs and some, like, groups online that I didn't even know existed. And kind of helped me, you know, see that there's like a whole different world of the hobbyists and the makers that were kind of outside of like the education and the industry realm. And that gave me ideas for new things that I could then bring to the client. So again, you know, they're not writing or creating anything that are. Is going to be, you know, end product for the client. And we have to be careful with confidentiality. They're clearly at a lot of the points, either brainstorming, research, and there's some other things we can get into that they do help with the crafting and the creating, but we do have boundaries there, so they're not stepping too much into my world where it could be a problem.

That's smart. I'm curious, maybe for context here, what's the age range from when they started helping you? What age roughly, to kind of the oldest.

Sure. So around 11 to 12, they were able to add something. That's when my daughter started with the photography. I have teens, 17, 16, 14 that are all boys that are very helpful in the business. And then the younger ones that may just be, you know, try this app, try this game, kind of get an idea of, like, how I might be able to frame it around their experience, good or bad. Sometimes knowing What a product's downfall is, is very helpful when creating a white paper or copy because the client isn't going to come at you with that. And it can be hard to go into a project just hearing all the benefits of something and not really seeing the downsides. So they've been able to kind of give me a little bit of, like you said, focus group saying, mom, this part isn't really very good. This might be something that, you know, you have to address or work around. And that's been insanely helpful.

Yeah. So different perspectives and ideas because they see it from a different angle. Right. So that could be hugely valuable. I want to come back, I want to get kind of in the weeds with you in terms of task ideas and specific projects you can give your kids. Because I know listeners are going to be wanting to kind of brainstorm some things here, but I'm kind of want to take it to a high level, just briefly. And I'm curious how, when your kids have been working with you, how has that helped them better understand what business is about, how they can contribute to the family financially, how they might be able to be inspired to go out on their own? So what change, what positive change have you seen in your kids as a result of them helping you with your business?

Well, kind of a, I don't want to say a selfish point, but you know how kids are always like that kind of stereotype that they're super embarrassed by their parents? Well, it's really hard to be embarrassed by your parents when you're in a family business together because they start to identify with that business as well. So one of the really neat things has been, you know, when they say, my mom's a writer, they tell their friends, my mom's a writer, like, it's cool. And they get to say, you know, oh, I helped on this project, or you know, I spent this summer traveling with my mom and we went to conferences, which is another thing that I like to do with them so they can kind of get immersed into that world. They may never get into content, but my oldest child did graduate from college in media studies and went into a copy job. And a lot of the things she put on her resume were conferences and skills she picked up and things that she learned by working in our business. And because companies are so craving, like self starters and people like, with an incredible work ethic, seeing that she's learned SEO at like 19 or 20 is really great to have on a resume, but also to see that put into practice. So that's One thing that I've seen come out of it is just the kids are really more focused on how worlds work today with business, how marketing plays in, how SEO plays in. It touches every aspect. Whether you're going to be a doctor or a welder. Marketing is a huge part of that world. So just knowing it exists and knowing some of the core principles I think is just, there's no value you can put on that. It's just incredible.

It's priceless. Priceless. Totally. I couldn't agree with you more. My biggest hope, one of the biggest hopes for my kids, for me, is that they grow up to be curious, creative, good problem solvers. So creative problem solvers, they have strong critical thinking skills that they're resourceful. And as I'm listening to you, what you do checks all the boxes, what you're having your kids help you with, because I can't think of a better way to develop all those skills than to be actively involved in a business at a very young age.

Yeah, it's everything you dream of when you think of, okay, this is what we're going to do with a family. Right. And it wasn't something I sat down with like a plan and said, we're going to teach critical thinking. It's just something that happens just as when you grow your business and you're learning these things and then you look back 10 years and you say, wow, look at all the things I learned. It's the same for the kids. They can't help love it or hate it. They're going to learn something by the end of it.

Love it. Let's come back down to tactical specific tasks or jobs that you have had your children help you with. So can you give us maybe some additional ideas again, just to help listeners kind of think through? Okay, yeah, that could apply to me. I think that's a good idea. Maybe this one doesn't apply as much. So whatever you feel is relevant.

Sure. So first, you know, I think a lot of the listeners probably have VAs or work with some kind of service provider. So what I always do when I get a new project or something that can be chunked up into tasks is I say, okay, what of these could be outsourced to my va? And is any of that also something that could maybe be outsourced to my children? They're not always the same things, but there might be some overlap if it needs done so quickly. And I don't want to have to oversee anything. It goes to the VA if it's something Where I feel like it could be beneficial to my kids and easier to keep on site with me. That might be something I work through with the kids. So anything from research. Research is a huge one. I create these Google Docs and I assign them to my children. They all have their own Google emails and I set them up as a task and they have to check their email every day for school. So they're checking for an email from mom and it'll have a due date on there like by this Friday. Can you please research like the top 10 Minecraft mods for this project that I'm working on? By the way, great fit for the kids because I. Oh yeah, yeah. Not a huge Minecraft fan, but I've had to write about it. So they get the assignment. And just as we're checking daily with how you coming along with your homework can say how you coming along with that project? And it really. I'm trying to think of the tasks we've had them do. We've had them. Like I said, a lot of research, a lot of kind of get me started on this right path. I've written about tools that are primarily for the gaming community, but that have been adapted for the business community. So sometimes their job is to just read what I've written before I submit it to the client and let me know if there's anything that I've said that culturally, like in the gaming or youth community, like off the mark, kind of like sensitivity readers for Gen Z. And they tell me if something I said was just egregiously, I don't know, like wrong in how the text being used or maybe it's too close to how kids are using it for like social things and so maybe wouldn't be okay for business. Sometimes they'll just like walk me through honestly new apps on my phone that get updates. I've had my kids organize my files. I've had my kids introduce me to new app that might help me collaborate and organize my podcast files. I mean, when kids are in tech all day long, it's silly not to go to them and say what new things might I be missing. So a lot of that time is sit down, consult with me. Do I need to be on TikTok, right? No, mom, you don't. So these are valuable conversations to have and I do pay them to sit and have them with me.

Well, I definitely want to ask you about compensation, but just going back to what you just said, do you find that? Well, I'm sure you have. Okay, but I'm Just trying to figure out. Didn't take long for you to really understand. Okay, so kid number one, really good with these kinds of things. Kid number two, with these other things. And you weren't too conflicted when assigning projects and tasks because of the different strengths of each kid.

Right. And that part of that I think the benefit is I spend a lot of time with them and I know kind of their gifts and their abilities. So if one kid is getting kind of good at coding, I wouldn't let them code my website. But I might say something's not right here. Can you just like go through it and see what might be something I could bring to my web guy before we go? Little things like that. But yes, they each have their own strengths. And then there are some that like hate writing. And I just say, look, I need like 200 words, just an overview of what this app is so I can get a handle on it. And then I'm going to go based on your points and research more and wrap it up and make it pretty for the client. And sometimes the kid might be way off base, but so might your va, and that might be something you'd have your VA do. So it is very much what a VA might do, but geared a little more towards the gifts and the abilities of each child.

Sure. Yeah. I hadn't thought about maybe even if your kid was willing to learn a little bit of WordPress, updating your website, maybe distributing your newsletter, updating your blog. Right. Those kinds of things are very much trainable. They're teachable things. And if you got a kid who's got that kind of interest, that'd be right up their alley.

Podcast editing is a big one. There's a huge market for podcast editing, as you know, you get the kid with the audacity and a couple different things they can learn. You know, my child was learning things like going through and dealing with the clipping and the audio files. You know, that's something you need to remember. Kids can go watch a YouTube video and grasp it just as quickly or maybe even quicker than we can, and just put their head down and let them try to fix some of your things. Always keep backup, but, you know, let them play with that. You'd be surprised what they can do. If it takes something off your plate and they're learning a skill, it's like a win win.

Sure. And by the way, just a quick aside for those who are not familiar with it. Audacity. She wasn't referring to her kids audacity. She was there's an app called Audacity for audio editing. So I just wanted to clarify that. All right, so let's get into a little bit about into compensation. So how do you decide what to pay your kids for each of these tasks?

I like to pay them a little more than what they could make going out like to a restaurant in the community. Because my goal is to want them to work for me. Right. So like any employer fighting for talent right now, my children could go, especially the teenagers, go work at the coffee shop down the street and I could say, no, you're going to stay here and work for me. But I want them to work me so I make the pay competitive with what some of the better jobs in the community are offering. But also remembering that if I'm paying my VA something and they're getting to the level where they're almost as good or even better, I need to keep that in mind as well. They might get paid more than va, depending on what you pay your va, of course. But you also have to keep in mind if you're going to use the tax benefits, you're needing timesheets, you're needing to do things like you would for an employee. And so that has to look good as well to the powers that be at the IRS. So paying your child $50 an hour in high school isn't going to fly, but somewhere between minimum and midway to a professional va, not unheard of. And then I've done some project based pay things too where it's taking them hours to do it because they're brand new to it and I'm compensating them for the final outcome versus 20 hours to figure out how to use the.

Software and do you let them know ahead of time? Okay, so here's what I got for you. Here's the scope and here's the pay and how you're going to get paid. You let them know up front.

Yes. And we do an interesting thing in our house where we decided early on we weren't going to do allowances. I was having a hard time tracking like everyone's allowance and who gets allowance and do you deserve your allowance? And with six, it was a job in itself. So what we did was we took the bills every month, divided it by the number of people in the household and we said work. This is how much money it costs for you to like live in this house and you can go get a job or you can start working towards the hours that it costs to pay for your Xbox and pay for your Netflix and all this. And so there's kind of in our house, a certain number of hours that are just kind of for the household, and then they get the cash after that, just because we realized that I'm not going to separate out Xbox subscription from all and hand them a bill to pay every month. That was, again, an administrative nightmare for me. But if I just said, you have to work an hour or two a week just because that's how the family keeps rolling, and then anything after that you're going to get in the form of payment. That seemed to be a nice balance between, you know, not just being strictly, I'm doing this for the cash, and also understanding that they needed to be rewarded for their time.

Got it. So not just the things that benefited them exclusively, such as the next box subscription, but are you in that calculation? Are you putting utility bills and car insurance and all that, or.

Yeah, after they get to be about 15, 16, we do. Because they need to see every month what that costs. When my daughter got out into the world, it was a little bit of a shock for her, I think it is for most people, right? Oh, yeah.

We're dealing with that ourselves here. Yeah.

And so it's like, okay, you're not on the Hulu subscription anymore because you don't live in the same zip code. And Hulu's being weird. And it's like, what? I have to come up 7 99, which doesn't seem anything for me, but for a young person starting out, that's $7.99 a month. It's a lot. So we wanted them to know a running total of what it costs to take part in the Amazon Kindle Unlimited and take part in, you know, all these family subscriptions, the extra electricity to run the extra air conditioner in their room or whatever it is. We needed them to be aware of both the dollar amount and then also the amount of work. When Mom's in her office until 2am with a new client working, where does that money go? It ties everything up nicely, and they have no problem with it. They understand.

But I'm assuming that it's not so punitive. That may not be the right word. They're able to cover it fairly easily, and then they see the rewards also, you know, in terms of what's left over for them, right?

Oh, definitely. Definitely. And things like taking care of the pets and putting your own laundry, that kind of. If you're just doing the bare minimum and not being a slobby roommate that people don't want to Live with, you're going to cover your end. But we've had situations where the kids haven't finished the work that was assigned and they got behind on their chores and it's the 29th of the month and they need to work 10 to 12 hours. And you'd be surprised what a kid can do on a Saturday when he thinks his Xbox is going to be. The subscription is going to turn off at the end of the month. So it is a lot like real life. And it's not punitive because we're not there to catch them doing something wrong. But just like running a business or doing schoolwork or living in the real world, the month comes up and your bills come and you have to have something to show for it. So it took us a while to get to this plan. It works well and it really works well with the having them work for us because if they do want to make a little extra money to go buy something, they can come to me and I'll surely find something for them to do.

So there's always something. Yes, there's plenty of work. You mentioned something that I wanted to ask you more about. Just briefly. If going back to work for the business, if your kid doesn't complete the task, they just overlook it. They forget. They just don't do it or they don't complete it to your standards. How does that conversation go?

Well, you know, as I mentioned, we homeschool, so it looks a lot like any other conversation or you don't feed the dog. The dog isn't just going to be allowed to not eat. Right. So you have a conversation, hopefully before the due date, kind of checking in and you're saying, okay, I'm helping you manage your time here. The date's coming up. Where are we at with this? Are we getting close? If they just completely blow it off of terrible quality, Usually there's something going on there because we're at the point now where my kids aren't really the type to just like leave mom hanging. They have to live with me. They can't just like go home and ignore their boss. So there's some family accountability there. But really more than just helping work for the business, which they all get to a point where they are most definitely an asset helping. There is a little bit of time, just like again, training a new VA where you have to say, okay, they maybe didn't do it the way I wanted them to, but are they worth putting more training and effort into to get them to the place? Right. And most of the time we say yes. So it's very similar with your children where you're not just going to give up, you're going to say, okay. The goal is to get it to where they know this skill well enough that they can. And I think it's just like working on a farm or working in a restaurant or any other family business. I don't know where you just go, okay, you're no good. You don't have to work for the family business anymore. I don't think that's an option in most businesses. So we kind of take the same approach.

Yeah, makes sense. Makes perfect sense. Let's talk a little bit about tax advantages to hiring your children. Now with the understanding for everyone listening, Lindsay is not an accountant. I am not an accountant. We don't pretend to be one here on the Internet. So with any tax related matters, you want to make sure you consult a tax professional first. But anecdotally I just want to hear from you what your understanding is or how you guys are working with this and taking advantage of the laws that enable us to do this and get some benefit out of it.

Sure. So obviously you pay anyone, it's an expense for your business so that you know helping there. But also if you are not, reverse this if you are a sole proprietor and you can go to the IRS website. Actually if you Google like hiring family members, they have a whole guide on the ins and the outs. Once your child reaches a certain age, you can no longer claim these benefits. But you don't have to take out the employer's payroll taxes, which is kind of a big benefit there. And because your child likely won't make so much money that they would have to pay in for income taxes, there's some savings there. So you can look over the guide at the irs, but really if you're sole proprietor, they can get some benefits that they wouldn't normally get working for someone else. Also as a family member, it's a lot less paperwork and all that with the payroll taxes. Now I will say state is very different. So make sure if you're hiring your children you do talk to your state labor department and their tax department because your state may have something where they want you to collect state payroll taxes and you'll have to figure that out. But largely there are some generosities built into the IRS IRS system with the understanding that if your kids work for you, they're minors, it's your business and you're not like a C corp, then you can take advantage of a lot of these things. And to be honest, you can't hire your children as an independent contractor with like a 1099 miss anyway. So if you want to hire them, this is the way to go.

Yeah. And of course we should also say that this applies to the U.S. in every country is also going to be different in terms of there are regulations. But I had only heard about this, I hadn't heard about it until a couple years ago, that you could hire your children in the U.S. at least there's some great tax advantages to it. So it makes great sense as we start wrapping up. Lindsey, for someone listening who's really intrigued by this idea, what advice would you have for them if this is something that they would consider doing with their kids?

Well, first I would say mention the VA thing again. I love my va. I've had her for eight or nine years. She knows ins and outs of everything and can help me with the things I often ask her to do. However, shifting some of the things to my children has been good for when my VA goes on vacation or, you know, isn't always available. So if you are outsourcing something anyway, which I think a lot of us are, it would be good to look at. If your children are of the age, they can start to learn some of these things. What might you be able to shift? It may be one task for now. It may be checking emails. It may be organizing your desktop. I have this terrible cluttered desktop at my computer that I can't even find anything. I have one kid who's incredible at organizing. It could be organizing your papers in your office. It could be. I mean, there are so many ways that you could use your child and your business that doesn't necessarily get them into that confidentiality world that, you know, you might have with your client. Look at things that you sit down and you go, oh, I wish I had somebody that could do this. Anything like that is fair game and it will take a little work on the onset. I'm not going to be dishonest about that. However, like I said, training anybody, it has incredible benefits. And you have the added perk of someone in your family who honestly cares about your well being and wants to see the business do well because it benefits them.

Yes, and I should say that, I mean, this is implied. You have the extra benefit of having your kids at home because they're homeschooled. But if your kids go to a traditional school, that doesn't mean you can't do this. They're not in school 24 7.

Oh definitely. They may be taking classes where they need some real life examples of project. This is a good opportunity for them to learn some projects that align with your business as well. I think it'd be extra meaningful for them if they're doing a composition course or they're doing a tech course or marketing. A lot of kids are learning web design. There are ways to integrate it in their classes. They're taking in a public or private school. That would be great for your business as well.

Yeah. And I know my son just graduated from high school, but the past senior year and I think you could do this here even in your junior year. You could do. I think it's called work study. It's got a name and it's basically up to two periods, two class periods where you can basically leave school early because you know you're doing work outside of school and there's a whole program around and there's some homework and paperwork they have to fill out. So that's another thing to look into that many school districts have. Cool. So I want to make sure people know where to find you and connect with you because I know you have some great resources out there and some of which touch on we just talked about. So where can I send folks to learn more about if they're just curious and want to explore these ideas further?

Well, actually my website Lindsay Nurl. So my first name, last name.com has everything about me, but I actually really like to engage with people on Twitter. I don't know how many people are on Twitter these days, but I am at L neurl L K N E R L and I often share some of the things I'm working on and just happy to answer questions. I've had people come and say doing this, but I don't see a place for my kid in it. And after five, 10 minutes of just chatting, we've been able to figure out a few things to get them started on. And I'm pretty passionate about including children because someday they're not going to be children. And what a great way to learn some skills and get some confidence in what can be an overwhelming workforce.

Absolutely. And I think you've also written a book Right. In this area, if I'm not mistaken. So tell us about that.

It's homeschool hacks. How to give your kid a great education without losing your job or your mind. Came out with Simon and Schuster in April. So it's not solely for homeschoolers. There's sections on, you know, remote schooling or how to work your kids into the business, but it's basically just going over that entrepreneurial spirit of helping get your kids involved in what you're working on. And again, a lot of different business owners participated with interviews, kind of sharing how they've brought their kids into their workspace. I think it's kind of a trend we're going to see grow, especially with remote work. Kids and family are going to be harder to separate, and if we can be intentional and kind of how they interact, it could have some really positive results, I think.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm seeing that trend already develop. Congratulations on the book, by the way. And folks want to learn more about it. Where can they check out the book.

Or learn more about it at Amazon and major booksellers? It's also homeschoolhacksbook. Com.

Perfect. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your story. This is inspiring and I know a lot of people are listening or just thinking that they why I really need to look into this and get my kids involved. So thank you for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

Well, that's it for today. I hope you enjoyed the episode. And just a quick reminder to grab your free copy of my latest book, Burn More in Less Time. The Proven Mindset, Strategies and Actions to Prosper as a Freelance writer. You can get your free copy at B2B Lunch where you will also find the details, show notes to this and all my other episodes. Enjoy and have a great day.