#359: How to Enjoy a Better Freelance Lifestyle by Unlocking the Secrets of Luxury ‘Points Travel’

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Hey there. Welcome to another episode of the High Income Business Writing Podcast, the number one podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to earn more and less time doing work they love for better clients. With over 1.3 million downloads from listeners just like you across 101 countries as freelancers, many of us crave the freedom to explore new places without the financial burden that travel can bring. But what if you could fly in luxury without spending a fortune? Well, that's where Points Travel comes in. And today's guest is a true expert in this game because it really is a game. Spencer Howard is the mastermind behind Straight to the Points. And he has helped countless people book premium travel with points instead of cash, making dreams of business and first class travel a reality for so many people. And in this episode spirit, Spencer joins us to share his journey from a political career to building a freelance writing business to becoming eventually a full time freelancer in the world of points and miles. He's built a whole business around this. As you'll see, he's extremely enthusiastic, very detail oriented. He really enjoys digging up opportunities and sharing them with his audience. And in this conversation, he dives deep into the strategies that freelancers can use to leverage credit card rewards and optimize points for travel, breaking down complex topics like transferable points and airline specific credit cards. He also explains how to do this without getting into debt or paying credit card fees that don't make sense. That's very important to me and something I really believe in. There's no point in doing this if it's going to get you in financial trouble. I learned a lot from this conversation. For one, I realized that many of my hangups about Points Travel were unfounded. I also discovered that I'm actually making some pretty big mistakes with a strategy I assume was pretty smart and was getting me huge travel perks. But it's not really a great value as you'll see in our conversation. Now, if you love to travel, you're going to find several actionable tips here on how to maximize your points, how to avoid common pitfalls, and plan your next dream trip, all without breaking the bank or again, getting into debt. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Spencer Howard. Spencer, welcome. It's great to have you here.

Thanks so much for having me.

I am very intrigued by today's topic and it's something that I've Definitely taken advantage of, you know, this idea of rewards travel. We're going to kind of get into the weeds with this. But before we do that, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and I'm curious to learn how you got here, you know, what's the path to getting to where you are today, where this is kind of what you focused on.

Yeah, for sure. So my website's called Straight to the Points. I send out basically flight deals, but instead of cash deals, I send deals you can book with points for premium cabin business and first class on international routes. And I just kind of break down the options for booking, give you the dates, and kind of really dive into the weeds on like why you would use one set of points versus another set of points since we have so many options here in the US that's the gist of what I do now. It was the evolution of writing about loyalty programs and points and miles for several years before I started my own business. I was a freelancer writing for lots of websites. And that was after about 10 years working in politics. It's a hardware right or left turn, however you look at it from politics.

But.

But here I am.

Very cool. So tell me how you became interested in this idea. I mean, I've heard it called travel hacking. Is that still kind of a term that's often used?

Yeah, I feel like the term has fallen out of favor. Hacking gives people the impression that you're like doing something nefarious. And I always say we're more of. It's less hacking, more optimizing. We're just trying to figure out the best credit cards of our spend on based on where we're spending our money. And then we're trying to figure out the best ways to use the points we earn to book travel, whether it's business first, economy, hotels, whatever.

How did you fall into this? Like, what made you interested in this topic?

Yeah, oddly enough, I was working at the U.S. travel Association. It's a trade association in D.C. and I was working in a political role. And I think it stems from we had a press clip about open skies agreements, which are like free trade agreements between countries for airline access. And I read an article from a blogger and in my mind I was like, why do I care about what some blogger has to say? Then I actually read what he said and it was like, okay, this is interesting. And I looked around his site and started seeing things about like using points to fly. And I was like, wait a minute. I'd like to travel more and maybe not spend all of my spare income on it. So yeah, that was the initial part of it. I knew I wanted to fly in the front of the plane. I'm six three, I'm not a small person. I wanted space and this seemed like a faster way to get me up front. And yeah, I've been doing that now since 2016.

That's really cool. When would you say you turned it into kind of a viable business where this is what you could really do full time?

Yep. So I found the world of points and miles in, I guess, September, August, September of 2015. And I started freelance writing in mid-2016 and then had enough freelance work that I needed to do one or the other by December of 2016. So it was a very fast path, but I guess I was kind of obsessed. I spent about four hours a night for six months reading every rule you can imagine that airlines and banks have. So yeah, it was a very fast ramp up and I just kind of ran with it.

And you've been running straight to the points.com full time for how long now?

So just a quick clarification. Straight to the points code, that's CEO.

Okay.

Somebody won't sell me the dot com version. Still working on that. Yeah. So I started this as a hobby in mid-2018, Just Sharing Award space based on some friends who were like, oh no, you should share all this award space that you find when you're writing articles. And I was like, okay, I'll just do that. Did it until end of 2020. It's just something for fun. And January of 2021 decided that it was a smart idea to start my own travel business During a pandemic there. I mean, I guess the like six months to take a leap from a 10 year career in politics to freelance writing. And then in the middle of a pandemic starting a business, I guess that's just who I am. Yeah, it's been. Yeah, so I guess it's been since January of 2021 and just steadily growing since then.

Let's talk a little bit about maybe the categories of opportunity. So we'll start with broad strokes and then we can kind of drill down and get in the weeds. But what are some of the biggest opportunities in terms of using or leveraging credit cards to get rewarded with travel? You know, whether it's airfare, upgrades, experiences. So kind of let's give us a lay of the land.

Sure. I think sometimes there's this idea of like, oh, can I just use points for anything? And banks and airlines will try to give you lots of opportunities to use points. A lot of it's just understanding what the best ways are. And typically it's like if you have airline miles, booking flights is the best way. If you have hotel points, booking hotels is the best way. There are the rare exception, but general rule, that's just kind of where I start from. Similarly with banks, if you have points that can be transferred to different airlines, that's generally better than like cashing them out for gift cards or cash back. And that's what they're really meant for. If you want cash back, get a cash back credit card. That's cool too, if travel is not really your thing. But if you want to travel, that's where I focus. Specifically, as I mentioned, transferable points. You know, Amex, Chase, Bilt, City, Capital One, Wells Fargo, they all have points programs that allow you to transfer their points to a variety of airlines. And it's just a matter of figuring out which program, which airline program will help you for a particular trip.

Got it. So there's that category of hey, I can transfer that to, you know, from Capital One, my Capital One credit card to Delta, right? To get some.

So in this case, like. Yeah, so, and that's the thing is each bank has different partners. So like an example I was like is Capital One points can be transferred to Air Canada, aeroplan, and those points can be booked, they're used to book Air Canada itself. Or you could also book United or Lufthansa or Swiss or Austria and any of their partners. So it's kind of like a multi stage operation where you earn points to transfer to an airline and then you have a bunch of options again that you can then book so you truly can travel just about anywhere in the world with points. There are a few exceptions, I think, where there's just like one charter flight a week or something. But generally speaking, you can get to any region and many parts of that region with points.

Well, since we're talking about credit cards and banks, so maybe we can start there. So there's obviously bank credit cards and then they are partners with different airlines that you can choose from. And there are also airline specific credit cards. Can you maybe give us the pros and cons of, of each type?

Yeah, sure. I'm, I'm a huge fan of transferable points, which is a bank's own program, just because it gives you flexibility to use a variety of airline programs. When you think about award space, it's different than a cash ticket, like if you want to pay cash, great. Buy a seat. If you want to use your points to get a ticket, generally speaking, they're releasing a couple, a few, maybe none at all, depending on the day. And so it's not as straightforward when you have access to a lot of different airline programs that gives you the flexibility for whatever, you know, whatever program has space the day you want to fly or at least close to the day you want to fly. When you have airlines, an airline specific credit card, you're locked into that program. So if you have a, you know, a Chase United card and United doesn't have award space on the route you want to fly, then you're just stuck. Like you just can't use your points there. But if you had had Chase Ultimate Rewards points, which could also be transferred to United or to say Air France, KLM's program, Flying Blue. Well, maybe they have flights to, you know, say Europe and you basically pick the one that allows you to get the flight you need. That's why I like the transferable points. Airline specific cards. They do have some benefits. Sometimes people supplement their transferable points with them just to get like a free check bag. Sometimes you get discounts on awards or additional award space, stuff like that. So there's like more niche uses, I find. And then if you're just like traveling for work, some of them provide lounge access for an airline lounge, like City Advantage. The City Advantage executive card will let you into an American Airlines Admirals Club when you're flying. So it's just. Yeah, it's a game of kind of piecing together. It's like a puzzle. What is, what do you need for your particular travel needs?

That is a great point because what I'm hearing is it just, it's so individual. Right. So I'm in Atlanta, right. This is Delta's hub, Delta Captive. Delta Captive. I'm guilty. And you know what? It works. I have the Delta Sky Miles, American Express credit card. I've had it for years. It really does build loyalty. I will not fly any other airline.

Yeah, and that was my first credit card was the Delta Amex Gold because I was traveling for work and I flew Delta and that's what my dad flew. And he flew 2.8 million miles with Delta. And it was just kind of like it's what we did.

Yeah, right.

It was only after kind of digging into this where I was like, oh, that was a mistake based on my travel. Not saying it's mistake for you.

No, no, no, not at all. I mean, I'm Very limited in my knowledge. But you know, for me, my decision was based on I'm always going to travel Delta because I've traveled other airlines and frankly, I prefer Delta. I know you're paying a little bit of a premium, but the ways to rack up miles through a bunch of different bonuses and incentives, I mean, makes it so that I'm traveling free many times during the year with my particular credit card. I get lounge access and all it took was for me to go to the lounge. One time I was sold like, this is so much better than waiting at the gate upgrades. You know, I frequently get upgraded to the next level, whether it's comfort plus or to first class. And so for me it really makes sense. I don't travel that much, you know, maybe once or twice a quarter. But somebody else who may not live in a huge hub like Atlanta for an airline may need a little bit more flexibility. That's not as valuable for me. Yeah, so yeah, I get it. That makes sense.

Let me give you some context for Delta and this is why I often joke that Delta is never going to work with me because I say things. But if you want to book, like let's just say you want to go to Europe and you want to book a one way business class award ticket and let's say it's on Air France from Atlanta to Paris, it's 50,000 flying blue miles plus about $250 in taxes and fees. If you were to book that same ticket with Delta Sky Miles, you'd be around 305,000 sky miles plus about $5.60. So to save $250, basically you're using an additional 250,000 points, which is worth way more.

Wow.

Like, it's just staggering. It is. It's the, one of the worst.

That first example, can you repeat that first example with a 50,000. That was 50,000 of what?

So that's Flying Blue, which is Air France and klm. Air France and KLM are the same company, so their loyalty program is Flying Blue. Their award rate for a one way business class ticket to Europe from the US or, or vice versa is 50,000 miles. That's their, what they call saver level. The lowest level you can book the lowest level you'll find with Delta to fly Air France or KLM or really any of their partners to Europe, it'll be 300,000, 305. So you don't pay the T, you only pay the taxes with Delta on the way out. So it's $5.60 with flying blue, it's, you know, 250 when you add in these carrier imposed surcharges. So personally I'd happily trade $250 instead of use $250 instead of 250,000 more points. So it's somebody who has like Amex Membership Rewards. You can transfer to both Delta and Flying Blue. Just don't transfer to Delta. So.

Got it.

So again, if you travel for work and what you're loyal to a particular airline because you have status and you just, you know, you're with them in and out, day to day, like go for it, I'm here for it. If you don't travel and you're not, like truly travel for work like a road warrior, once you get caught up in the loyalty game, you start passing up on better opportunities to get the experience you want. So something to consider may not work for you, but just in general for everybody else.

Sure, sure. No, this is really good. What I'm kind of sensing is that there's a lot of detail here and maybe this is why you have a whole website dedicated to this. And you're constantly. Things change, right? You have a newsletter, things are constantly changing. Deals are coming up. I want to ask about other misconceptions, common misconceptions you hear when it comes to reward travel.

Yeah, I think the biggest one is that airlines, they brand themselves as having frequent flyer programs. Those days are kind of over. Like sure, you can earn points by flying, you can earn a lot. But the real game is now with credit cards. It's where you spend. You can get sign up bonuses, you can use bonus categories with credit cards. And it's just more, I always call them airline programs. It's less about flying a lot, it's more about just using any products that can allow you to earn points. You can use shopping portals, you can link dining programs to earn extra points. Yeah, it's become a much more comprehensive world than just having a frequent flyer. Some people don't like that. I think some road warriors miss the good old days. As they say, when it's like you flew one mile, you earn one mile. Now it's sometimes you fly one mile and you earn 25% of the distance flowing or something. Or you just, I think with Delta, you know, you earn a set number of sky miles based on the dollars you've spen. So it's very much about how much do you spend now, regardless of whether it's credit cards or flying.

Interesting. I did not know that. What other big ones come up when you talk to people.

It's bad to have a lot of credit cards. So as we were talking before we started, the big rules in the Points of Miles world are like, never have credit card debt ever, ever, ever. Always pay off on time forever and ever, ever. And don't get into this get game because it's just a game. If you do not feel comfortable, like, staying within your means, like, treat your credit cards like debit cards. I think. Yeah. Again, people see us with a lot of credit cards and they're like, oh, my goodness, I must hurt your credit score. No. Most of Us have like 750 to 850 credit scores, and we are meticulous with tracking and making sure that, you know, we are on top of things. Because there's no point in earning points if you're paying interest. The interest will outweigh the value. So I know that that sounds like a little bit aggressive and I'm almost like trying to scare somebody from away from doing it. But the point is, like, it's a game, but it's a financial product. So, like, stay on top of things. There's no point in doing it if it's going to cause you tons of stress or you can't keep up with it anyway. Sorry, that was like.

No, no, that's a teacher.

That's like a teacher scolding everybody. That's not what I mean. But it's just a good frame of reference. And I do think a lot of people think we're reckless just because they aren't used to credit cards. Like, most people don't have 20 credit cards. I have 20 credit cards, but I always pay on time. And I don't spend money just because I have a credit card. That's part of the game. So it's just about maximizing what you do spend.

There are other fees, not just interest. So 20 credit cards. Most credit cards these days have an annual fee. Tell me about that. Because you could end up paying a ton of money on annual fees, which I'm sure it's not the case for everyone, but talk to us about that.

So I will also say that you don't have to be like me. I'm obsessed. Like, if you have friends who play golf, some go to the driving range and they go the putting green and they're practicing and then they play with you on the weekend and you basically drink a beer and see what happens. I'm the person who practices and not everybody has to be that. But we can all have fun and figure out, you know, what we want to get from this game. So for me, yes, I pay more annual fees than most people, but I, I've spent the last seven years traveling three months of the year, three plus months. So I get value out of all these cards. Every year that I have an annual fee come up, I just run kind of a cost benefit analysis. Like is this annual fee giving me more than it's worth or more than the annual fee in value? And sometimes it is, but it's too close and so I'm like, that's not worth it. So that's how I kind of start looking at things. With annual fees. Some cards will give you like an annual free night certificate for a hotel. If the, if the card is, you know, $95, are you going to get something that's significantly more than that out of that free night certificate? If so, it might be worth it. And for some people it definitely is. I've also closed cards similarly because I'm like, eh, I don't really need it. That's just me. Like I said, there's general rules, but it's always individual and how you want to play this game. I always say with getting credit cards specifically, there's three main approaches. You can kind of keep it simple. Get one to three, make sure the bonus categories line up with your spend and then never think about it again, just be done. That's the easiest way, it's the slowest way to earn points unless you just have a lot of spend. The kind of middle ground is I call it a hub and supplement. You kind of build a hub of four to six cars, again thinking about bonus categories. And then you supplement with a new card, sign up bonus here and there based on travel goals and needs. And then there's the kind of maximalist approach where people who just get one credit card after the other, they just work their way through signup bonuses. And that's the most complicated. Obviously you have to track a lot, but you do earn a lot of points that way.

Well, let's work with that a little bit. There's a limited amount of money you're going to run through one or all of your credit cards, depending on how many you have. Right. So how can you, generally speaking, maximize the value and the bonuses when you're only going to spend a certain amount every year? Like you said, we're not going to overextend ourselves. And then if you abandon one to now kind of take care of the other so you can really get the value from it, you know, are you not Cheating yourself out of the bonuses or the potential value of the one you abandoned.

Yeah, so you'll never earn points faster than when you get a signup bonus is the general concept. So a lot of these cards, it's like, you know, earn 75,000 points if you spend $4,000 in three months. So if you just repeat that process every three months, you're earning 75,000 plus whatever you earn on the actual spend of that $4,000. So you're at bare minimum coming out with 79, 80,000 points every four months or three months. Excuse me. If you were to not get another new credit card and you just kept spending on the card you had, you're going to be earning anywhere from one to say four points per dollar, which is great, but it's not the ratio. Like if you think about 75,000 points for $4,000 and spend, you're earning significantly more that way, which is why people like sign up bonuses. So if you're somebody who's like good at keeping a spreadsheet or there's some apps that'll help you keep track of things, you can just kind of work your way through. I think a lot of people, what they end up doing. Some people get excited and go for a bunch of cards at the beginning and then they come back to as they find keepers, the cards that make sense for their spend and travel habits. Like you have lounge access with your card. Some people decide that's a priority. So they're like, I'm keeping this card based on the airports I fly out of. I want to make sure I've lounge. There's a. Other people don't care about it so they may close a card that has lounge access. The biggest thing for our purposes is we keep the oldest card open to maintain your average age of accounts helps your credit score. It's the cards in between that you can kind of play with based on what you need. And that changes over time. Like I've had cards that I've kept for five, six years and it's just my travel patterns changed. And so it's just, you just have to make a choice. It's. I have no emotions with banks. It's just running numbers for me to utility and that's. Yeah, it's a tool, truly it is a tool. And points are a currency just like cash. You figure out where it makes sense to put them.

Tell me about your impact to your credit. Not in terms of having multiple cards, but if you're going to follow a similar strategy where every Three to six months, you're applying for a new one for the signup bonuses you get. Ding for a credit inquiry. Is a ding not big enough that it's a kind of something to take into account.

That's generally what I've noticed in the last eight years that I've been doing this is like you're going to get a small hit when you do the application and then within a few months, it just comes back, it bounces back. And then a lot of times people find that especially when they're newer to credit, as they get more credit line, their credit score actually improves because their utilization rate drops. More credit available, but you're still spending the same amount of money. And so the percentage of your credit being used is lower, which you find that's. Which is good. Yeah, they like that. I don't make the rules. I think sometimes I think the way that scores are calculated is kind of silly, but it's just, again, I don't make the rules. I'm just playing within the game that they have created. And so, yeah, so I'm not too worried about the credit score aspect or impact. But that's also because, like, I don't think people should be doing this unless they have a credit score that's like we'll say 700 and above, maybe even 720. I think most people I know are 750 and above because then a small hit doesn't really impact you. That's how I look at it.

Let's talk about award travel with airlines that maybe you haven't flown before or you're not very familiar with. One of my concerns is that again, this is coming from a Delta guy. Right. So that's all I know. I just know Delta.

Sure. I used to be that.

So you'll know where I'm coming from. I worry that, okay, so I got these points because I got this other credit card and I got all these bonus points for signing up. I'm worried that if I now book this flight with United, I don't know what class or category this fare is. Am I going to be, you know, kind of last in line? Is this a cancelable fair? There's all these horror stories of people who, yeah, whatever, they just get canceled. We just decided to cancel you because we have other people with higher status. They don't tell you this, but maybe these are misconceptions. What. What would you say to somebody like me who worries about that?

Yeah, I think the unknown is always scary. So I don't judge anybody for being unsure about it. I think when you just look at the experience, I think they're a Delta flyer, specifically, who feel like it's a better experience than United and American. But they also haven't flown on international carriers from other countries. And so they quickly change their minds when they see something like Singapore Airlines or Japan Airlines, and all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, Delta's good, but is it that this is better?

No. And by the way, I'm not saying from a standpoint of a Delta Flyer, I'm just saying for someone who doesn't know United, doesn't know klm.

Yeah. So the general gist of it is, like, you're going to find, like, economy. Some airlines have premium economy, you're gonna have business class. And then a few airlines have international first class just because things are confusing in the airline world, domestic first class is very different than international first class. Like domestic, you have this little recliner, it's a little bigger. That's basically premium economy on an international flight in most cases. So when I think about business class, we're talking about a lie flat seat. You have a bed and then and lounge access on international flights. And then international first class is like lie flat seat, but much bigger. And like, very few people in the cabin. It's like one step away from private. So I think once you kind of understand those classes of service, you kind of know what you're getting into. They're not just going to randomly cancel your flight if they oversell, which does happen, or there's a cancellation of a flight and they have to put people on flights. Like, sometimes award tickets can run into some issues. I've had that happen where, like, I was the bottom of the totem pole. Like, you know, they oversold the flight, but then you just have to ask them to, like, re accommodate you. So in my case, I just asked to be put on a later flight. Sometimes I've just might be. Is that the only time? I think I've had it one other time. And it was. Yeah, it was just like, oh, can I just connect? I got there at the same time. Like, it's just the more you learn about travel, obviously, the easier that becomes. I understand why that's very anxiety inducing for people, but I've also seen it happen on cash tickets. Like, it happens. Like, sometimes you get bumped. And in my case, sometimes I'm like, happy to get bumped when they're offering me $1,000 in credit for future flights and I'm like, oh, I don't need to be there at 2pm I can get there at 6pm Correct. Pay for my next flight.

Well, by the way, so a little bit of context. I got kids, right? So, yeah, this came up a couple years ago. I was looking at different ideas for summer vacations and one of them was to fly us all to Iceland. And I forget what the airline is that. That flies the. The Icelandic Iceland Air. Well, okay, so Iceland error. I thought so. Two things. I don't know it obviously, but when I went to compare, I think I was looking at award travel as well because I had points with another credit card. But when I went to look at the cash option, there were like six different categories.

Oh, sure. Yeah.

You know, like, because it wasn't just where on the plane, but it was also the level of economy and what that included, it just became really, really overwhelming fast.

I think airlines, and Delta's actually done this as well, where they just like, they break out fare. So it just used to be economy. Now it's basic economy, main cabin comfort plus. And like. Yeah, and that's all within economy. And so I think every. Not every airline, I guess, but a lot of airlines have gone that direction where they have unbundled thing. So it's like, do you get a check bag or don't you get a check bag? Do you get a seat? Do you get to select your seat or don't you get to select your seat? And it's become pretty standard. And I think you'll see similar things across airlines. Generally, they're pretty good about breaking out, like, what is included. I will say that I've run into things where like actually Air France actually listed the what's included incorrectly. And it was just kind of a known glitch, which is so. And it was like, you don't get a seat selection. And I was like, yes, I do. It's a business class ticket. I get a seat selection. Like, it's just. But if you're. Again, I definitely have moments and friends and I talk about this. Like, when we run into issues that we have to deal with, we look at that and go, man, if you don't travel just like a crazy amount, this would be so stressful. Like, I understand why people lose their minds at the airport because they're not used to it. They don't know what's going on. It's all new for them. But again, it's not as bad as I think people fear. It's more just knowing how to go through the steps, knowing that you. You Know if you're canceled and you say you have your Delta you on the app, you can just rebook your flight on the app. You don't have to go to somebody necessarily if the app doesn't show your flight that you want to be moved on to. Of course you can, you can go talk to somebody, but generally they're pretty good about it. So it's just, it's more about learning to use the tools that you have in front of you. A lot of most airlines, I can't even think of an airline that doesn't have an app right now, especially that you're going to fly with points. So yeah, I get the anxiety. I think the differences between the carriers aren't big enough to like just to make you not book something. There are a few airlines, for me, it's just like experience wise that I might choose to skip, but other than that.

Yeah, well, I think it boils down to a fear of gotchas. You know, it sounds too good to be true. That.

Yeah, fair.

And then, oh, now I see what the catch is. Now you have to understand somebody with a family and my kids are not young anymore, but you don't have. If you booked this summer trip for your whole family and you got young kids and you are now award travel and you get bumped off, that could be really stressful for a number of reasons.

I very rarely see that. I also think that the number of people I've heard from who like book their first points ticket and they're like, I just didn't think they were gonna let me board. Like, they just didn't believe it. Like, until they were like the doors were on the plate or closed and they were sitting there, they're like, oh, I'm not getting kicked outta here. Like, this is real. Like, it's just people. I mean, for better or worse, like, I think people have a pretty negative perception of a lot of airlines or just airline travel. Like airports are stressful, booking is stressful, dealing with the airline is stressful. Just people feel stress when they think about that aspect of travel. So I think they're just waiting, like you said, for the other shoe to drop. Like, something must be wrong. Especially when, you know, somebody books a business class ticket to Europe or Asia or Australia and they're like, they're just like, there's no way they're letting me on this plane. And there's like part of me when I first did it, I was like, is this really happening? Like you're just gonna let me fly? And when you, you know, just use however many points and just paid the taxes and fees. You're just in your mind, you're like, there's no way. I've booked hundreds of tickets for myself at this point. Maybe I don't even know how many. I can't even count. And I've booked for clients in the past. I've also now have newsletter readers who book. None of us are just getting turned away for booking something.

No. That's great to hear from somebody on the other side. That was really, I guess the sentiment behind the question is, for somebody like me who hasn't done a lot of award travel outside of Delta, what does it look like? What are the risks? What are the misconceptions? And I think you've done a good job of clearing that up. Tell me. I want to come back to get in the weeds just a little bit to something you talked about a little bit earlier. You're obviously a very detail oriented, meticulous person. I've heard, you know, you said something about apps. There's apps that help you track this. You've created spreadsheets to track it. For somebody who's really interested in doing that, what are some really good options for that?

Yeah, Travel Freely is a great app. You can enter the car as you're getting cards, you can enter them into the app and it would. And you can set like when you opened it and they will. They'll remind you when you have an annual fee coming due. You can see, you know, like. Yeah, it's just. It's a good way to track and. Yeah, that's just how I do it. Actually. I don't use Travel Freely myself that much because I just seem to remember things. But I know for most people it's a lot of information. So I think Travel Freely is a good one. There's a lot of cards that have benefits that you can use, like statement credits. I often call like the amex Platinum card, a coupon book because they have so many different options where you can get $10 on like, or what is it, $10 towards Uber every month. And so keeping track of just a list of credits that you can get from your card, which helps pay for the card for a lot of people, is kind of tedious. There's apps like card pointers that will keep track of all your benefits and, like, let you know, like, this month you have these credits that you can use. And both the guys who started those platforms are very responsive and always looking for feedback. So they're good to work with very cool.

Let's talk a little bit about aspirations. Somebody who's very interested, listening right now and thinking, I want to take a great trip next year. What are things they could start doing now to focus on making that dream a reality? You know, you got a few months to plan. Figure this out. What would be your suggested strategy?

Yeah, so it's kind of like earn early and book early. So I would just be earning points. Start now, get into it. But booking is interesting. So a lot of times you'll see award space open up, you know, 11 months out. I know not everybody can book that far out. You will see airlines open up award space kind of throughout the year and then sometimes in the last like month you'll see a lot more. So it's just kind of, there's no one rule for airlines when it comes to releasing award space. So you kind of just want to earn the points and be ready to jump on whatever opens up whenever you know you can book. So like the best time to book is when you know you're going to do the trip. It's not six months out or three months out. It is just like, oh, you know, 10 months out that you say you want to go to like Oktoberfest or something in Munich, like looking for award space. Right. Then like that. If you have the points, do it. If you don't have the points even, but you know you're going to have them, start getting ideas of what you can do. There's no point in waiting. And a little bit different with booking award travels. We often book one way award tickets, especially for international trips. That can be just as good as a round trip. I think it's, it's a bit different than cash tickets. If you try to book a cash ticket to Europe, especially like business class and it's one way that price could be more than the round trip ticket. Award travel, it's typically the one way is half of the round trip. It's not for every airline. It's not always the case. But the vast majority of the time that allows you to kind of pair different, using different programs for one way versus the other. So you could use United miles to fly to Europe and then flying blue miles to fly back. It doesn't matter. But if you try to do that with a cash ticket, you could just spend insane amounts of money. So it's a little different approach. But again it's just start earning points and then be ready to book when you have them. Yeah, there's no sense waiting just to wait I will say that it's often I have a, like a quick start guide on my site. It just kind of gives an overview of how to get started in this. And I think context helps. Just having some foundational pieces on how banks work with approving for credit cards just. I don't know, it helps you figure out which path you want to take. There's always going to be rules you have to keep an eye on. I'd rather keep an eye on that for you. Since people have lives, I this is my life, so it's a little different. So that's why I'm trying to help people kind of navigate this without getting sucked in. They don't need to be in the weeds. I've done that. I can help you. It's easy.

Well, we haven't really talked about this, but I guess if you could. I don't think we have resorts, hotel stays, you know, car rentals and all that. Do you generally advise people use award points for that or is that typically better funded through cash?

So I would say there are some circumstances in which hotels make sense. Car rentals, not as much with hotels like Hyatt has a good program where they have what I consider reasonable redemption rates. And you can transfer points from like Chase Ultimate Rewards or Built Rewards. And those are really easy way. Again, you're able to earn transferable points and then move them over to Hyatt or, excuse me, Hilton, IHG Marriott. There are some banks that transfer there, but the number of points that you need to book typically makes them a pretty bad deal for transferable points. If you just happen to have ihg, you know, Hilton Marriott, like, go for it, use your points, find something and make that work. I will caution that if you're traveling abroad, max occupancy rates are a bit different than in the U.S. i think people in the U.S. traveling domestically are used to being able to like cram four people in like a basic room. And you go abroad and they'll be like, absolutely not. You have to have two rooms. So if you're booking a family and you have points, you may find you need to like, book one room with cash and one with points. Again, it's a bit like a. Like I said, it's a puzzle. You just have to kind of fit the pieces. And it's going to be a little different for everybody depending on your needs. You know, solo travelers versus couples versus families. Very different needs. I would actually say families beyond four people, even different. Different than a family of four. Like, it's just all going to be a bit different depending on kind of what you're trying to do. But my focus is generally points for flights. I would say that it's when you start getting into the co branded cards, kind of like airline cards, you have hotel cars. That's where you start to earn a chunk of hotel points that could be useful.

Oh, like a Marriott Visa.

There's, yeah, so there's like Amex and Chase both have Marriott cards. Chase has Hyatt cards, Chase has IHG cards, Amex has Hilton cards. So okay, there's a lot of that. I just generally don't suggest people prioritize that over like transferable points. I, I, I think most the vast majority of people benefit from starting with transferable points and then kind of expanding as needed. But again, it's just how deep into it do you feel like going if you're going to keep it really simple, like do transferable points with cards that will help you earn the most points based on where you spend and then just roll with that. There will be cash involved in traveling. I always tell people that you're not going to like travel for free. To me the goal is the experience. The point of points isn't to say that you did something for free. You can stay home and get a book from the library if you'd like. Free activities, it's a great option. But you, I think points is really just a way to either access more experiences or a better experience along the way.

Well, Spencer, this has been illuminating to say the least. One thing that I've really appreciated about our conversation is that you're very detail oriented and you love getting into the weeds. I joke. I've joked for years. So there's a radio personality here in the Atlanta area. I think he's, his show is syndicated. I don't even know if he's still around, but it's syndicated all over the country. His name is Clark Howard and he is a consumer advocate. Right. Must be related. And I, I've always said if you're looking for advice on how to save money, he's great to listen to because he's so extreme. Like I remember this is years ago, he talked about how I figured out that it's cheaper to get two individual cheeseburgers from McDonald's and make a double one than to buy a double cheeseburger. You know, and especially if you take the kids.

So I feel like I've probably done that.

I think you need extreme people when it comes to complex information like this that will take somebody who's not as detail oriented like me. It would stress me out. So I want to encourage everyone who's listening and wants to learn more to check you out. Straight to the points co we'll make sure to include a link in the show notes once you're there. It sounds like the Quick Start guide would be a great thing to download. Is that a good first place?

That's a good first place. If you already have points or want to get kind of an idea of how my newsletter works, sign up. There's a free version and there's a paid version obviously, but that's a good way to start getting an understanding of like what opportunities are out there.

Very cool. So we'll make sure that some people your way Any parting thoughts before we sign off? Anything that we didn't talk about that you feel is important people know, I.

Think just have fun with it. I realize that I like, you know, I'm a little extreme with points. I'm obsessed. I get that. But it's fun and you find your kind of sweet spot and I think everybody over time figures out kind of where they fit in this points world. It's kind of open to a lot of us. I'm not going to say anybody can do it. Like obviously you have to have the financial means to participate, so I don't want to like sugarcoat it, but it's a fun game if you are in a position to take advantage of it and it can help add to your travel experiences.

Thank you so much Spencer. Great having you here today.

Thanks so much for having me.

Well, that's it for today. I hope you enjoyed the episode. And just a quick reminder to grab your free free copy of my latest book Earn More in Less Time the Proven Mindset Copy of my latest book Earn More in Less Time the Proven Mindset Strategies and Actions to Prosper As a Freelance Writer. You can get your free copy@b2b launcher.com or you will also find the detail show notes to this and all my other episodes. Enjoy and have a great day.