4: Chemistry Conversations Suck

Welcome to the business of executive coaching. I'm Ellie Scarfe, an ex lawyer turned executive coach. Over the last 17 years I've coached in house, I've been an associate coach and I've run executive coaching businesses with teams of coaches around the world. My clients have ranged from global brand names to boutiques, startups and organizations doing good in the world. I now run the Impact Coach Collective, a community of executive coaches who want to level up their business skills and take action in a community of like minded peers. I'm a traveller, a reader, a mum, wife and dog parent and I know firsthand that our stories have a huge impact on our businesses. The executive coaching business is tough and I've learnt all the lessons through plenty of mistakes and also with some great mentors. This podcast is all about growing a thriving executive coaching business. You can build a coaching business that is profitable, sustainable and that supports your personal goals, whatever they are. I'll be sharing tips and ideas translated for your context, as well as stories from the field with brilliant coaches and mentors. If you want to level up your executive coaching business skills, then this is the place for you. Hello. Hello. So today's episode is titled Chemistry Conversations Suck. And the subtitle, if I could have fit it in, the title is how to Handle Them Anyway, because otherwise the title was a bit depressing really. So if you're a coach and if you serve corporate clients or you've ever been on a coaching panel, likely you have taken part in a chemistry process with your coaches. And if you are a living, breathing human being, you probably don't love it. I don't love it, but having been through a lot of them, I have a certain way of approaching them and thinking about them that means I can almost sometimes enjoy them. So what are chemistry conversations? They're called all sorts of different things. Chemistry checks, chemistry conversations, discovery calls, coach introductions, my personal favorite, beauty parades. And what happens in a chemistry conversation is that it's part of the coach engagement process. It occurs when a coach is being engaged, typically by an organization, and they want the coachee to meet with two or more coaches prior to the engagement. The chemistry conversation's usually one on one, so the coachee and the coach are together alone. Usually it's about 30 minutes, but up to 60 minutes, and I've done both. It is generally, but not exclusively unpaid and I have been fortunate to participate in some paid chemistry conversations, but those are typically where it's more of an introduction and the coachee has the opportunity to say, no, it wasn't a good fit rather than making a choice between coaches. So slightly different situation. Why do clients and coaches like chemistry conversations? Is a question that I have asked myself and actually it makes a lot of sense if you think about it from the perspective of the client and the perspective of the coachee. So client companies like them because it's a way of giving a coachee some sense of buy in into the process. And particularly because, as you know, in organizational coaching it's not always the case that the coachee puts their hand up and says, oh yes please, I'd really like to be coached. Coaching is sometimes suggested to people not necessarily in a remedial context, but in a, in as an opportunity that they may not have been aware of, they might not have known that it existed and they might not be fully aware of why it has been suggested. And so the assumption can be that it is a, a negative process or it's because they're doing something wrong. Which of course as coaches we know is not necessarily the case. Coaches like to engage in a chemistry conversation process because there is a sense of control that they have. They have the ability to say yes or no. It does or doesn't fit during a situation that they don't necessarily have a lot of control in otherwise. So I can absolutely see why they are important. Now, is there a benefit for the coach? Well, for the coach that wins the chemistry conversation. Wins is probably not the right word, but I'm going to use it anyway because they've already got a head start from this conversation on the rapport building that they would need to do as part of their coaching anyway. And what that means is that when they formally kick off the coaching, they've got a lot of context, they've got a running start to go. So there is definitely upside. But I said in the title of this episode, coaching conversations suck. Why do they suck? So whereas I've said that clients and coaches like them because there's, there's more buy in and there's more control. What I did not say is that they necessarily work. So there's no evidence that I'm aware of that chemistry conversations make any difference to the coaching outcome or that coaches have a better ability to choose the right fit in a coach when given a choice. In fact, often the person who is putting together the panel of coaches or making the suggestion often has a much better idea of what sort of coach would be a good fit. But many organizations are very hesitant to only offer one coach because they are invested in their people being bought into the process, and this is one point of control and buy in that they can offer. So on this basis alone, I don't think chemistry checks are going anywhere. And I totally see why this is perceived to be a benefit. Chem checks also suck and are very stressful as a coach because of the possibility of rejection. And that's what I think it boils down to. The possibility of rejection is amplified because this is not a paper based rejection. Right? It's not looking at your bio and saying, oh, I don't know if they've got the experience that I'm looking for. I don't think that they would be a good fit based on the way they've expressed their approach to coaching. This is a no after they've met us, after they've actually connected with us or not, and then they've rejected us. And so we do still. Even though a chemistry conversation is a two way process, we tend to think of it as only being for the coachee to say, no, I don't think this is a fit. So we really need to remember as a coach that this is a two way process. We're both trying to assess the fit in this conversation. Do I think that I can effectively coach this person? Do I feel like there is a relationship that could be strong enough to support a coaching relationship? So it's a two way process, but it often doesn't feel like it because as coaches, this is our business, this is our livelihood. We're really invested in, you know, having clients and doing the work we love and making a difference. So obviously, because where there's this rejection specter sitting in there, chemistry conversations suck because they trigger our insecurities and there are confidence issues that emerge. It can trigger what I've heard referred to recently as imposter phenomenon, which I prefer to imposter syndrome. But that sense of, oh God, who am I to put myself out there and say I can coach this very senior leader. What makes me equipped to do this? So even though we know cognitively and rationally that we have all the skills and credibility and positioning to be able to effectively coach this person, we still have those feelings, right? So that feeling of, of fear and worry about how we're going to be perceived, how we're going to show up in this session, it comes up no matter what. So we need to be really aware of that. Chemistry conversations can also be a bit crap because we are often doing the heavy lifting of teaching the coachee what coaching is and why they should want it, right? So if you think About a chemistry conversation, There are a few, depending on the individual, there are a few decisions that they need to make. Firstly, they need to decide that they think coaching is a good idea and they want to be coached, right? So that's one decision. And then they have to decide, okay, I want to be coached and I want to be coached by you or I don't. So if you think about those, the order in which chemistry conversations happen and your place in that order can make a significant difference. So you'll hear soon on a guest episode coming up. But one of my mentors and a very successful coaching business owner, Louis Louise Kovacs, has a theory that she told me that often the coach who goes last wins. And this is obviously a violent simplification. And it's not just due to a recency bias, I don't think, although that is also real. But it's because often the person who has the first chemistry conversation with the. With the coachee has to do the work of getting them to make that first decision. Right? That first decision of, I understand now what coaching is, and yes, I want to be coached. So the first person has to do the work of educating the coachee on what coaching is and convincing them, doing a bit of a sales job, that coaching is great and that coaching is valuable and coaching is something that would, you know, help them achieve their goals or help them to get towards the outcome that they're hoping for. The last person who shows up in the chemistry conversations gets to show up, connect, ask the question, you know, what do you understand coaching is? The coachee knows it. And then this coach can just focus on the conversation of the. Of getting to the why me Decision, not the why coaching conversation. Does that make sense? So there's less work that has to go into that justifying coaching overall and more work that can go into the who am I? Who are we? And let's figure out if we've got a connection. So what are my tips and suggestions given all of those reasons why chemistry conversations are difficult? Well, I want to just go through a whole bunch of tips and suggestions and ideas I have for when you are going into a chemistry conversation. So the first thing I think you need to do is take your power back, which is remembering that chemistry conversations are for both of us, for the coach and the coachee in the process. And it can help to state that, buy in upfront. Right. So to share with the coachee that this conversation is for both of us to figure out if there's a good fit and if we would be able to work together in a productive way in a coaching engagement. So don't forget you can say no to a coaching engagement. I have done and I've said no to coaching certain individuals and I've said no to working with certain organizations. We have that power as coaches and as business owners. So I like to think about chemistry conversations as a genuine two way relationship and connection and to figure out do I feel like this could be a great outcome through a great relationship. There are also. So this is another very practical tip for chemistry conversations. There are generally two types of people. People who need to talk less in their chemistry checks and people who need to talk more in their chemistry checks. So firstly, the people who need to talk less in chemistry check conversations. If you have had a big career, you have been a mentor for years and you are likely very confident in your professional background. So there is a chance that you will need to tone that down, tone that mentoring voice down in your chemistry conversation and tone up your coaching approach. Right? So if you think about the push and pull spectrum, you need to ramp up your pull and pull down your push. So I've been selected for coaching engagements many times when the feedback on the other coach is that all they did was talk about themselves and tell the coachee what they thought they should do. Yawn. No one wants that in a coach. So then on the flip side, we've got people who need to talk more. So people who need to talk more need to build their credibility. And typically those coaches I know who go quite quiet are often really good at asking a lot of questions. And I think obviously that is a core skill set of coaches and not something that is a problem. But in a chemistry conversation, you need to balance your display, sort of demonstrating your coaching micro skills through listening and engaging and connecting. You need to balance that by building credibility in a short time. And the way that you need to do that is, yes, do some coaching in the chemistry conversation, show what that process is like. But you also need to be sharing your relevant experience. You need to be sharing similar people that you've coached. You need to share your expertise in coaching and you need to touch on your professional background. Because the coachee, when making a decision about who they're going to go with, is going to want to feel a level of trust and the trust is going to be from a few factors. They're going to want to feel that you're credible, they're going to want to feel that you're reliable and they're going to want to feel A sense of intimacy, right? So that they felt like they can be themselves, they can show up in this, in this relationship. The, the intimacy can come through that rapport building that you do as a coach. The credibility, because we need to do it in a short period of time. You do need to be sharing your background and actually doing a bit of telling about your expertise, your relevant experience and things like that. Now, interestingly, I think both talking too much and not talking enough in chemistry conversations come from a place of being a bit insecure, right? So if you think about yourself and which of these categories you're likely to fall in, you're likely to fall into this because one of your derailing tendencies is being triggered some way, right? So, for instance, you might find that your confidence is. You're finding it hard to feel confident, so therefore you default into asking a lot of questions. So be mindful of your personal derailers and how you respond when they are triggered. So are you going to talk too much? Are you not going to talk enough and be really intentional about how you show up in a chemistry conversation? Now, I'm not going to say there's a perfect formula of how much you should talk and versus listen that doesn't exist, but you should be showing a bit of coaching, you should be asking a lot of questions, but you should also be peppering in there a bit about similar engagements that you've worked on, your experience, your understanding of their challenges. So I've already touched on this, but I think in a chemistry conversation, you need to do a bit of coaching. So you need to do a bit of showing versus telling what coaching is, but not too much. I once had some feedback after a chemistry conversation where I did not get the job that the person felt like I had had shown them all that I had to offer in the chemistry conversation. So I'd added so much value in the chemistry conversation, they didn't know that they would get as much of as much out of an ongoing chemistry, an ongoing coaching relationship that they did with the other person that they'd met. Interestingly, they did then come back a year later and ask if I was available for a secondary engagement with them. But my point is I put too much out there. I did too much coaching and not enough sharing of my expertise. So you know the right balance of. Of show versus tell. Do a bit of coaching, but not too much. You also need to think about in a chemistry conversation, how do you want the person to feel? And so you need to ramp up or tone down your energy accordingly so, for example, if you are coaching a person who is completely overwhelmed, who is running on a hamster wheel, then they're going to probably want to have a greater sense of calm and a sense that there is some grounding and some peace. So in your coaching conversation, you will need to embody that grounded, calm presence and sort of be that energy that, that, you know, you want them to feel they can achieve through the coaching. Conversely, some people will have big goals, they're really excited, they want to do stuff, they're high energy. You need to ramp your energy up to meet that because you want to be matching them where they're at and where they're aiming for. So you can, you can show them what is possible and what it would feel like to do coaching and feel like to get to the point where they're wanting to go. As I mentioned, I would try and avoid being the person or doing the coaching education in your chemistry conversation. And what I mean by that is, don't spend 20 minutes of your 30 minute chemistry conversation telling them what coaching is and why coaching's great. Ideally, you want them to come into the chemistry conversation already wanting coaching and simply focused on which coach is right for them, so they are making one decision and not two. Now, often you will not have any choice in this, so you just have to work with what you've got. I appreciate that, but there are a few strategies that I recommend that you can use depending on where you're at. Firstly, if you have vision of it, try and be the last person that they speak to. But don't be silly about it. Like, you don't want to be annoying the person choosing the coaching panel by saying, can I please go last? What you want to do is say, hey, what's, what's the time frame? When are they meeting coaches? Can I, can we book in some time so don't make their life more difficult? If you are the first person, which will happen, there are some alternatives. I think it's really helpful to send the coachee some resources before, if possible. So that might include a summary document on what is coaching, or it might be a short video of you explaining what coaching is and what your approach is and why coaching is beneficial to people in this position. So you know, that can be a helpful way so that you can say, hey, did you get a chance to watch the video? And they go, yeah, I get it, that makes sense. And then you can get into, you know, the nuts and bolts of your chemistry conversations. So you also can use a lot of your Sales strategies in your chemistry conversations. And when I say sales strategies, I don't mean any form of pushy selling. What I mean is sort of more of the skill sets of consultative selling. So try to understand their challenges, right? And understand the depth and significance of these challenges and help them say, so you don't want to solve their problem, but you want to help them see how coaching can help them to build a pathway out of those challenges. So that is essentially what, what a consultative selling engagement is, right? Understand the challenge, help them to understand the significance of those challenges if they don't remedy them and show them how there is a SOL that could build them a better option or the desired state that they're working towards. So you can also. You also. I think, I think in, in chemistry conversations, one of the best, best questions I like to ask is the purpose of the coaching. Not necessarily the goals for the coaching, but what is the purpose of coaching for them? What would a good outcome look like for them in six months or in 12 months? How do they want to feel at the end of the engagement? And what would make them think that this has been a good investment of their time, their money and their energy, actually. So that's something you can do. And I also always suggest sharing relevant references from your work if you have it. So it is a massive boost to your credibility if you can pepper your conversations with statements like, oh, gosh, yes, you know, other law firm partners that I work with have also mentioned that this year they've had to expand their BD activities after a few years where the work just flowed. So they've been overwhelmed and totally needing a break, but then they get the break. And then the stress of not having a clear deal flow is just as bad or worse, right? And then the coachee, who's just shared a stress around business development or has, you know, just mentioned that they're a bit quieter, goes, oh, yeah, she gets it. He gets it. My coach, this, this person understands what I'm experiencing. And you've also shown them some social proof by the fact that you have worked with someone with similar challenges. So I think to build credibility, it can really help to do that. So I want to leave you with some encouragement, though. Chemistry conversations are just part of the gig. If you avoid it, you're avoiding getting work. You can despair every time or you can embrace it and you can develop strategies that work for you. My suggestion is to do as many as you can do the mindset work every time you go into one. Think about how you want to show up, reflect on what does and doesn't work, be yourself and show a bit of the magic and the energy that you bring as a coach. I hope that's helpful. If you have any more questions, please feel free to drop me an email or hit me up on any of my social platforms. And I'd love to chat about what do you find hardest about Chemistry conversations? What are your tips? I'm sure we could put together a good list of tips that everyone has to share because we can all get better at Chemistry Conversations. Thanks for listening and I will talk to you next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Business of Executive Coaching. If you found it helpful, please share it with a colleague or friend on link. And don't forget to tag me so I can say thanks. I would be tremendously grateful also if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts. More reviews means more people can find us. This episode was brought to you by the Impact Coach Collective, where executive coaches grow their businesses in a community of peers with business, education, mentoring, deal clinics, and more. If you'd like to contact me or work with me further, all my free resources, courses and more info on the the Impact Coach Collective can be found@elliscarf.com have a brilliant week and I look forward to talking to you again soon.