From Child Protection to Coaching: Tracey Nicolson's Corporate-to-Coach Story

Hello, this is Ellie here. Now, before we dive into this extraordinary interview with Tracy Nicholson, a coach who you definitely want to hear about, I just wanted to share that we are coming up to the final days where we have doors open to the Corporate to Coach Accelerator. So as doors are always open to the accelerator, but at the moment we have got some very special things happening. So as you'll know, if you listened to our masterclass last week, we are offering a very special last opportunity to get in at current prices. In fact, at a discounted price before prices go up on the 21st of August. Now, if you have been considering joining us inside the accelerator, this is the time to book a call with me and make sure that you have got the opportunity and can lock in that price before the 21st. I have opened up extra times in my calendar, so it is a good time to get in because those times are actually going pretty quickly. So now is a few more times have been open. You can check out those times at www.elliescarf.com/bookacall. And if you want to read more about the accelerator, you can check it out at www.elliescarf.com/accelerator. For .com/CCA. I will look forward to meeting any of you who have realized that this is happening if you haven't heard me talking about it before. And if the point of these calls is really to figure out, is the accelerator a good fit for you and your business given where you're at? So take the opportunity. I'd love to have a chat. You will come out of this call with some ideas, some advice, regardless of whether this is the right fit for you. So I really look forward to seeing you. To speaking with you. And now I'm so delighted to share Tracey Nicholson. Hello and welcome to the Business of Executive Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Ellie Scarf, and we are very lucky here today. So I have to be transparent and say that I have been excited to record this podcast, it feels like for months now, because of the extraordinary human that I get to introduce you to today. Tracey Nicholson is a coach and facilitator who comes to this work from a deeply impressive career in the public sector. So Tracy's 40 years of service include the State Emergency Service, the Department of Child Protection, Department of Communities. But what impresses me the most about Tracy is not actually the title she's held or the resume she has, but the stories that she tells about who she was as a leader. And I really hold this sense of Tracy being someone who truly walks the talk. And this is borne out by how many of her past team members and colleagues are now becoming her clients. So Tracy, welcome. Thank you so much for being here today.

Thanks, Ellie. It's a real privilege and honor to be here today.

No, I'm so excited. So I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about your corporate to coach story with a bit of info about your background as well, because this has been a pretty amazing journey.

Yeah, it has been an interesting journey. So I joined the West Australian State Public Service in 1983. And I joined as a front, as the girl back in the day, the receptionist, if you like, and did accounts and so on and so forth. And so I was with the State Emergency Service at that time for about 7 years. And as I was working there, I started to understand and realize I was working with a lot of volunteers and I liked the coaching and, well, it was more training that I really enjoyed, but working with people. Then my husband and I moved locations. We went to a remote location in West Australia, in Kununurra, and we worked in Kununurra and I joined the then, oh, what was it? Child Protection. And again, it was a promotion, but it was an admin role. And I really was drawn to social work and seeing how working with people that were disenfranchised and marginalized and, you know, there were a lot of issues happening in families. So I then started working full-time. I had one child and I had been there for about 4 years and I decided to do my social work degree. And by then I had 2 children and I was, I studied my social work degree, a 4-year degree bachelor over 7 years. So it was a long journey to get to, but in the meantime, I was working in the field that I wanted to be in. And then I ended up having a very long career as a child protection worker for the remainder of my career in the state public service, working my way in lots of different roles along the journey, but eventually becoming in the role of district director, which is the director of a child protection office and has a lot of responsibility, but also more importantly, a lot of staff that were in a really complex work area. To work with. For me, that was where I emerged. My leadership started to emerge around being really people-centered. I was really interested in compassionate leadership. How could I undertake the really difficult role I had, and at times had to have really difficult conversations with people, but I could do it from a humane perspective? So I always held on to that. You need to mean what you say, but not be mean when you say it. And that has really resonated with me all the way through, really thinking about how do I, how can I impact more positively on the people in the workforce and support them in this really complex work?

So did you ever have a coach? Were you exposed to coaching in your role?

I was exposed to coaching more later in my career, probably a couple of years before I actually ended up going into coaching myself. And I decided that I had been with a coach and I started to see ads and things about coaching. And I was like, I was really drawn to it because I think because of my social work background and working with people. And in social work, you do a lot of counseling training as well. So that was something I was really drawn to. And then when I actually experienced my own coach, probably in the last 2 or 3 years before I finished my career, was very late. I realized there was a real calling there for me and I decided That could be an opportunity for more flexible work arrangements. 'Cause I was in a role that I was working anything from 50 to 70 hours a week. You know, it was a fairly constant pressure that was on all the time. So that was in 2022. I decided that I would do my formal coaching qualifications. I had 6 weeks planned off, 5 weeks, which was traveling Europe. And I decided that because it was at the end of COVID and most of my coaching program was going to be online, I decided that I would just do it while I was traveling. Wow.

Sorry, could I just pause to say what a life experience traveling Europe, doing your coach training? Incredible.

And it was a really interesting trip because my husband and I, we flew into Malta and we flew out of Istanbul in Turkey, and we actually didn't have any plans in between. We were planning it as we were going along. They were the only 2 flights that were arranged in there, but we, yeah. So wherever I was on a Friday midday Perth, I then jumped online and did the workshop that was there. And I also had a mentor coach that I would coach weekly as well as part of the program. So I did all of the program except the last week, which was a face-to-face. When I got back maybe a month later, that was, so this was over 3 months. So it was an amazing place. And vicariously, anyone that was on the program was saying, where are you? They're living my travels through vicariously. I'd be in Sicily or I'd be in Turkey, or I was in Santorini. Wherever I was on a Friday at midday, I'd just jump online. That is 4 o'clock in the morning.

Wherever it was. Is that the sort of time it was?

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

That's commitment. So obviously it lit something inside you that you suspected What did that look like in terms of making a decision that this is something you wanted to really give your whole self to?

Yeah, by this stage in 2020, my granddaughter, first granddaughter was born and I decided that I did want more flexible hours. And then by the time my second granddaughter was born in 2024, I realized that I wanted, that family is a really important value to me and I wanted to be available To be flexibly available to support my daughter and her 2 children. And so the coaching was a natural way for me to go. And I realized that I couldn't do that in the role that I was in. I was hoping that maybe something might come from where I was, that those are— that, that wasn't able to happen. So I decided that I would bite the bullet and I would start my own business. And so. I already had the coaching qualifications. I had some coaching experience, but not a great deal. And so it was then on the journey of how do I set up my own business? And that was, that was hard. That I was used to having people that I would just call if I had an IT problem or if I needed a spreadsheet, someone would create it for me and they'd just show me how to do it. And if I had a problem with something, I just got my person. And all of a sudden I was on my own setting this business up. And that was a little bit scary. And although I'm also quite a focused person, so I just kept persevering and I made a lot of mistakes along the way. I did. I paid a lot of money for a program that a coaching scheduling program that I probably didn't lean to. I did all sorts of different things that I was out there on my own. And, and I then started to see things that were coming up on my social media, particularly LinkedIn, that was sort of saying to me, maybe you need to get some help. Maybe you need to get a community. And so I I think I dabbled in a few masterclasses, one, a couple of which you had done that was calling out to me of sorts of things that I needed to know. So I decided to join the Accelerator program and that was a game changer for me in terms of having a system, having systems available, having a process that I could go through looking at what the, what the different experiences that others were having, that community, it just opened up my world. of what I could potentially do and be. And some of the areas where I was feeling a little bit maybe anxious or I was self-sabotaging, a bit of imposter syndrome sneaking through. I think the community and certainly the coaching, business coaching that I received from you, Ellie, in that process really helped me to gain some confidence and to actually understand it's okay if I don't get it right. It's actually okay. It'll be all right. The world's not gonna fall in. And I'm, even if I am judged, it doesn't matter. Like I'm at a point in my life where I'm not worried about what others think about what I am doing and where I am. I know what I stand for. I know what my values are. I'm really clear about that, who I wanna be when I show up. And, and that was, that's been. The most positive part of the last 12 months for me has been part of community that's really supported me.

And I will say, I think, Tracey, that you are a person who, once you make a decision and you learn something, you bloody well do it, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's extraordinary. And watching you fly has just been amazing. But I love what you said then about how it's actually what you learn is that it's okay to get it wrong. And I would say absolutely. A lot of what I want people to take away is experimentation, things not working. That's all part of it. There's no system anyone's going to give you that is going to be perfect. You're not going to do it perfect the first time. What I think is not okay is not starting the learning curve. If you don't do that, you're never going to make that next step.

Yeah, I, for a very long time, have had the mantra of every opportunity is a learning opportunity. So I don't ever, I don't procrastinate a lot. I tend to give it a go and jump in. And once I commit to something, then I'm in, you know, and whether regardless of what, then I'll reflect and I'll do what's necessary to be able to make the changes so that it's successful. And that's worked for me.

And I can see it continuing to work. So tell us a little bit about your business now, right? Do you, do you have an elevator pitch?

I don't really, I, well, tell us, how would you describe what you do? So I, what I describe what I do is I really like working with emerging leaders and I've discovered that fairly much over the last 18 months since I started my business. But I think in particular, what I really think has worked well is having the mix of both coaching and leadership workshops. So really, I. Have a suite of programs that I've developed, workshops that I've developed that are really looking at particularly around Lencioni's 5 Dysfunctions of a Team. And I'm not wedded to the name, the title, 5 Dysfunctions. However, what I am wedded to is the model works. And so I base a lot of my training on growing people through the model. So the first part of the workshops will start looking at self. What are my values? How do I show up as a leader? And when I talk about leadership, it's not necessarily the role of leadership. It's more the behaviors of being a leader and the attitudes that we might have towards it. Am I able to trust the people that are around me? Do I able to have not a lack of fear of conflict? Am I able to have meaningful discussions? Is there accountability in terms of what I do? Will I do what I say I'm going to do? Do I show up every time? And will we actually create an end result? Will we actually get to where we need to get to? So I build on that throughout the first workshop around self, who I am. Generally, I would have a couple of sessions of coaching in between and then another workshop that would then start to look at how do we show up as a team? What I— so building on the first part of the model and then keep developing that as As how are we? And then really teasing that out. And the final workshop generally would be in a 3-workshop series would be how do we work in the organization?

Yeah.

How do we elevate ourselves strategically thinking about all of those elements? What, who are our external stakeholders? Do we have trust in those? So building on each level and in between each one of those would be coaching, individual coaching. So we've got the group work. Then we've got the individual coaching throughout. So that's one, one series. I really like the work in values. I think that when people understand what their values are and others' values in their teams, then we have a better, create a better understanding of who we are and how we show up together as a group, visioning what would our vision be. So there's a bit of that sort of work. Yeah, I think, and bespoke leadership programs. What is it that you're, what are the challenges? And then creating those challenges, workshops around those challenges to address them.

And who are you, are you mostly working with public sector clients or private sector? How's that played out for you?

I thought my ideal client would definitely be public sector given my history in the public sector. But the majority of, and I've started to really branch out now, the majority of my work has been in local government. And that's been created through some connections and then the repeat work.

So adjacent to public sector. So yeah.

Yeah. So still in a public service, but in local government. And I've recently also started working with an oil and gas group that has been really interesting because I wasn't necessarily an area that I thought I might end up in and I'm loving it. It's really interesting to be working with more, with a different technical So, but what I've found is that no matter what area you're coaching in, the principles are the same.

Yeah.

Yeah. The challenges are the same. They're just, it's just a different environment that they're working in.

Yeah. One thing, one story that you've told that I love, and I was wondering if you could share, was the idea of the quote of the day that you had for your teams. Can you tell us what that was? Yeah.

Truly over 10 years. Oh yeah. Truly over 10 years. In the last 10 years of my career as a leader, I would send out a quote of the day every day, first thing in the morning. The first thing I did each morning when I went into the office was send out a quote of the day. But how I actually got those quotes of the day was I would go, I would sit and find quotes online and that were meaningful, that had some, whatever was happening in the office or whatever was, whatever the culture that I was trying to create or that was spiking at the time, I would send out a quote of the day. And every single day without fail, I would have one person, at least one person, often more say, thank you, Tracy. That really resonated with me today. And I'd start to see the quotes of the day up around people's office. And when I left the— and I think, you know, when you do these intentional ritual, daily rituals, you know that they have an impact to some, but you don't really know how far reaching. But by the time I left, I probably had about 5 or 6 different workspaces also getting it apart from my own. So people used to send it on.

Mm-hmm.

And it so created this bit of a domino effect. But how I really knew that it landed was the day that I retired. I was presented with a book, a hardcover book that said, Quote of the Day, Right Back at You. And it actually makes me emotional thinking about it.

Me too, just listening to the story.

Yeah, I know. And really what it was, not only was it quotes, but people had written their message back to me saying how much of an impact I had as a leader and how much of an impact my quotes of the day had on the workplace. But what I'm most proud of about that is about creating a culture that was a positive culture, that was a better place than what it was when I left it than what it was when I arrived. And I'm, that is what I'm most proud of in that process. I left on a high. I didn't, and I left on my own terms on the way in which I wanted to walk out the door. But I'm so proud of that book. It's a beautiful piece. And recently. I had another look. I picked it up and I had another look at it and I just looked at the acknowledgments in there and yeah, it made me feel really proud. Oh yeah.

So it should. And I must admit, this is very predictable. My brain goes into how could we tap into that magic of Tracy and make that something either commercial or part of your marketing? You know, whether it's an Instagram channel or you change your banner on LinkedIn every day with a quote of the day. Just because it feels like it's so much a part of your brand that it'd be lovely to tie it in.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that and I really miss it, but I definitely was reminded recently when I did the Daily Workplace Rituals deck training. And that was really about how to, how can we create those daily rituals, which I had been doing and I had seen benefit in, but I Don't think I actually had really thought it through to the— I subconsciously knew what I was doing and why I was doing it. And it was a deliberate act every day, but never in my wildest dreams when I started doing it, which was awkward to start with. It was a bit weird, a bit sort of—

I bet. Yeah, I bet people thought, what is this?

Yeah. And on those days that I was sick, I would still try and do a quote of the day and then say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be in today. But when I was on leave, I, I didn't do it. And people come back, go, oh, we missed you quite a bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I love that. I love that. So tell us a little bit about that experience of growing a business. So you've told us, you told us a bit about starting out. Like, what have you learned about yourself and about growing businesses?

I probably have learned most that I can do anything, that it's okay That people don't necessarily want my service, that's fine. I had to work really hard at outreach, and that was something that I felt was— I didn't wanna come across not in my values of being, of connecting with people and being true to myself. So I had to overcome that and find a way that was gonna work for me. And that was about really is the value of connection. Yeah. So tell us, how did you work hard at that?

How did you resolve that?

So I got away from the sales side of that and actually concentrated on the true connection of, of genuinely wanting to connect with people and, and do it having catch-ups. And the word of mouth from others too has really helped where people have gone, oh, look, Tracey's working with us. We'd really like to introduce you. So I had a lot of e-introductions from my connections. So I think what people have, that word of mouth of this is a person that actually is genuine, that is compassionate, is caring. They, that's really worked well for me in terms of my outreach.

Really, I'm hearing your personality and your approach were just how you did your outreach.

Yes.

Yeah. You didn't feel like you had to necessarily, because of course we teach techniques, we teach templates, but you found the way that works for you. So using the approach, but not necessarily the way Everyone else did it.

Yeah. And actually what would happen is I'd meet with people that I knew well and I would say, well, what have you been doing for the last couple of years? And then I would find, and I'd ask a question, what's your pain point been? What's the biggest challenge for you? And then by come around, you know, we're an hour into the call or the catch up and they'd say, tell me what you're doing. You're doing some great stuff. I can see it on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

And then I would say, well, this is what I'm doing. This is what I hear what your challenges are. This is how I might be able to work with you if you're needing that. And so then we'd get to a point where they would say something like, oh yeah, let's do that. Let's catch up. Or alternately, look, not at the moment, but maybe in a period of time. So I would then think about maybe I'll just touch base with them in 6 months and see where they're at.

Yeah. So that, that investment in connection, the connection is its own value, right? But then there is opportunities that come up sooner and opportunities that aren't likely sown for the future.

Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it's in, I mean, for the long road, long haul, it's not a, I don't necessarily go in there thinking I'm gonna walk away with some work. No. If I do, if someone says to me, yes, look, you're exactly what we want, it's a bonus. It's great. Yeah.

I love that. And that takes a lot of the pressure off, doesn't it?

Yeah.

If they have agency, right, they can choose yes, no. I'm not forcing anything down their throat.

Exactly. And I'm genuinely interested in where they're at. What's happening for you?

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And that genuine care, the genuine connection, the genuine curiosity, I think is probably why you've been so successful with your outreach because people can see that. I love it. What have the challenges been growing your business?

Probably a little bit of imposter syndrome, which I thought might creep in. And from time to time it does. Yeah. So I think then going, okay, so reminding myself of what, how successful I have been and how successful my coaching business is and realizing actually I can do anything and that's okay. So that's been a major challenge.

How did you hold onto that when it was in the early days, right? Where you didn't necessarily have the evidence that the business was going to be successful.

What did you do? Yeah, it's a good question. I think I just have belief that I can do anything.

Yeah. And I guess that, that huge professional history of doing good work and being good at what you do.

Yeah. I know that I have created, and I've been a part of several workplaces that were not great when I went in and I became quite known for that, being able to walk in a, into a, for want of a better word, a dysfunctional workplace and then turn it around to be actually a thriving positive place where people want to work and want to come to work and be happy.

So reminding yourself of all of those things when you had those moments where it felt a bit tough.

And I think I've been very fortunate that I'm at a point in my career where I wasn't also reliant on an income.

Yeah.

So that released me from worrying about the fact that I had bills or, don't get me wrong, I still have bills, but I didn't, I wasn't reliant on it as, as much as what's some of my colleagues might be. And so that pressure hasn't been there for me.

And isn't it interesting? It's probably, there's a real tension there that it's the lack of pressure that allows you to show up in a way that is likely to have quicker results, which is—

Yeah, potentially.

Yeah.

I hadn't thought about that, but it definitely has been a positive for me. That has been the way, although there had been a period of time where I was working for months and months without any return at all. And I think just believing in myself and hanging in there and really talking to others who were in similar positions to what I was.

Yeah. And when you say months and months, like how long are we talking that you had to hold onto the faith before it started to show up?

Probably 6 months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think this is so important because I don't care how good you are at marketing, how amazing your network is. It's just going to take a while before people start to, to come into your world and to turn into clients. So just want to really normalize that.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was one, they were some of the earlier challenges, outreach, trying not to be salesy. I really had to understand some of the processes in the funnels and using LinkedIn again was something that I'm not, I hadn't never had to promote myself. And then all of a sudden I'm showing up and then saying it doesn't matter if someone doesn't want to read it. That's okay.

Yeah.

But really the way in which I have found LinkedIn to work for me is to actually put things on there that I'm interested in, that I think others might be interested in and what's important to me. So I, again, it's about being authentic and being authentic to myself in that process.

Yeah, I love that. And we'll definitely put in all of Tracy's links, but definitely check out her LinkedIn. It's very, it's very human, very you, and I find it really interesting. So I think—

Thank you.

Thank you as well. What are you most proud of from what you've built?

I'm proud of the feedback I get in my coaching that people have found that it has really made a difference. I'm proud of the fact that I have return work. And to me, that's the height of absolutely that I am being successful. And I'm proud that I'm really enjoying myself in my semi-retirement.

Yeah.

Go figure.

How's that working out? Are you feeling like you've got the balance right?

I think I remember having my initial call with you, Ellie, quite probably April last year. And I said to you, you said to me, what was your biggest challenge going to be? And I said, holding myself back and not working some crazy hours. So I think I've had to try and get that balance right. And I've got a couple of reminders I have. 2 grandchildren that I, that we have here after school a couple of days, 3 days a week. One of my granddaughters is in kindy, so she spends a day at least a week with us. So there are times where they help me. Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise I will be working on the business as much as I need to.

Yeah.

And I'll be working in the business in terms of the workshops and the coaching. Yeah. Yeah. Why? That's, I always knew that was gonna be a challenge for me.

Mm-hmm.

Is holding back.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's amazing. So obviously you joined the accelerator fairly early on. It's been pretty amazing to watch your journey. What have you found most helpful?

The blueprints, the masterclass have been incredibly helpful in the early days, just setting me up with systems because I like systems. They help keep me on track.

Yeah.

And keep me safe and give me some sort of goals to achieve. The community has been incredible. I've met some lovely coaches that have become friends now and have all the confidence. And I think accountability is always there at the accountability check-in, keeps me just on track of what I said I'm gonna do and, and doing that. And no question is a silly question. Every question is helpful to somebody, if not to me. Yeah. So I've just found it incredibly helpful. And I'm really happy that I actually made that investment in myself and my business early on.

Yeah, we are so grateful to have you. I feel like this about everyone, but the contribution you bring to the community is just, is amazing. And I think that's what makes it such a wonderful community to be part of is these incredible coaches such as yourself. So what tips do you have for someone who is starting out a business?

I would say find your people.

Yeah.

The accelerator program is one that you'll find people, your people. If you are reliant on an income stream, take pressure off and have something that is available to you so that you've got that there so that you're not worrying about that. Have a buffer. Yep.

Yeah.

And really think about who your clients are and your connections and really using them wisely. Yeah.

Yeah. So being really intentional with the outreach.

Yeah. Making sure that your outreach is that, that's been the key, but it's been done.

Yeah.

It's, it's how you do it. It doesn't have to be salesy. It can just be about connection. That's been, that's been really helpful for me.

I love that. And honestly, like there are a few of these tips like that, that if you did nothing else for a few months, you'd do really well. Right. That would kickstart everything. And then yes, we could put in place all of the other stuff, but, but I think that would make a big difference.

Yeah.

Took that one piece of advice.

I think the other thing that just jumped into is rejection recovery. So I think we all have an— rejection has an impact on us, but it doesn't have to define us. And so we can have our moment where we feel rejected, but then we recover from that and we get over it. We work our way through it and get over it, for want of a better word. So that's been really important as well, I think.

I love that. So I just had a podcast episode actually on building rejection resilience, but I like this idea of rejection recovery, which is almost like, what do they call it? Post-traumatic growth. It's like, not only can I be okay with rejection, but actually something better can come from it in terms of what I build.

Yeah, I think we need to, we need to acknowledge the rejection. Yeah. Because it's real.

Because we don't talk about it a lot, do we?

No, no, because it is real and it's okay that you're feeling that way. However, then what you do with that, yeah, rejection. Do we hold onto it? Do we feel angry? Do we?

Yeah.

Recovery for me is working, is processing and working our way through that and making meaning of it. Yeah. Because it might be something that, a myth that we've created or an assumption we've recreated, but in fact it may not actually be. The reality.

Yeah. And yeah, we could let that confirm all of these fears or beliefs we have about ourselves if we don't be vigilant to what's going on. Psychological processing. Yeah, I do a lot of that. I imagine your background in social work makes you very, really mindful of those sorts of things as well.

Yeah. And particularly working in the area of child protection, I think you're working in a very highly emotive area, very complex work that requires the ability to understand that people may be very angry and volatile and all sorts at you, but it's not necessarily at you. It's at a system or it's at whatever the issue it might be that's presenting. Yeah, it's highly emotive.

Okay. Question without notice. Yeah. So I'm always interested in the way our childhood stories show up in the way we build our businesses. And I want to I guess there's a parallel to child protection in terms of like we all grow up with attachment styles, right? Whether we have a secure attachment or insecure or avoidant, whatever that is. Do you think that plays out in how we grow our businesses?

Oh, that's a good question. I, yes, yes, we are a product of our environment about who we are. I had a really difficult, complex childhood. And so for me, It was one of the reasons why I was drawn towards child protection, but it also was one of the reasons that helped develop me as being someone who was very goal orientated about reaching what I wanted to. And on my terms. And how could I? So when I'm working with someone, I wanna know a little bit about what's behind this. What, what actually is feeding into this fear? Or if you are showing up with someone that's avoidant. What's that? What is that? Is that something that is from, is that how you managed in your family life? Is that you played a role in the family that was about avoiding? We didn't have arguments. We didn't trust. There was no trust. So how do we build trust with someone who's been brought up in an environment where there hasn't been a lot of trust or conflict? It was high conflict, low trust. So I think those things have really impacted on me in my business around how do I operate? How do I show up as a business owner? How do I show up when I'm talking to someone about a program that they're wanting? How do I develop my program? When I see someone that's anxious or nervous in coaching, it's really about understanding, being compassionate about where they're at the moment and how do they, how do I help them work their way through to reach the goals that they want to? What does that look like in a way that's on their terms? And so that comes from my understanding of my own background.

Yeah.

And what worked for me and about where I've been on my journey and the things that have helped me on that journey. Yeah. So I think, yes, I think it does.

I think it absolutely does. I've just got this image of, if we think about the whole ecosystem of coaching and coaching business, like we understand as coaches that our coachees bring all of their stories, their attachment, you know, styles, their childhood, all of that. And we sort of, we understand that. And I think the next step is really realizing that as coaches, we do as well. Right. And so. That's what supervision is for. And, you know, that's a big part of it. But also then I'm thinking about actually there's us as business owners and there's the people that we sell to who aren't the people that we're coaching. And we're all bringing our stuff into this equation.

Yeah.

And I had some training in transactional analysis, which is a type of psychotherapy. And I really think of us all walking around with this little inner child and the adults and the parents, and they're all coming out in all different ways and When we have these conversations, yeah, there's so many different ways. And I think being mindful of our own stories is so important, not just to our wellbeing, but to our business.

Yeah. And I think about what the other part of that to me is really important is what's our motivation and what, what are our triggers? What are our strengths? And so part of coaching is about really getting in behind whatever the issue is that someone's bringing and asking the questions that might help them work themselves into and through what the issue is. And so that's an important part of the coaching relationship is having, being curious.

Yeah.

Being the naive inquirer into someone else's situation. What is it that they wanna concentrate on today? Okay, so let's work ourselves into and through there. What's behind this? And I think that my training has helped me, my life experience have helped me to understand people. And to appreciate the diversity. Yeah. In all of us.

Yeah. Um, I love it. I think when you think about it, it's a little bit easier to have compassion for yourself and all the fears you have as a business owner when you can recognize that— I say inner child and I roll my eyes at myself. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Yeah.

You know, we are bringing— I always think about the toughest time I had a child as a child was probably around 8 years old. And so I always think about that 8-year-old me. When I'm having a hard time and I'm like, okay, what does she need right now? And how would that help? And I think that relates to a lot of people across the internal family systems and parts work. And I think, yeah, there's lots of different models.

Yeah. Is it Kristin Neff? Yeah. Kristin Neff, self-compassion. And I think that is just such amazing work. It's that if we can have self-compassion, then for it, then we will have compassion for others. Yes.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's not enough to just have compassion for others, right? That, yeah, part of that puzzle is turning that lens on ourself.

And yeah, absolutely.

I come across so many coaches who are very deeply self-critical. And so, yeah, just a little bit more of that. And I always consider it part of my job to be a bit of a cheerleader. And that, that is the delight for me, but it's hard for people. Thank you. We went really deep there. I really love it. Thank you for coming with me, Tracy. And I just want to—

You're welcome.

So if you are a coach who wants to dive a little bit more into understanding how people's backstory plays out in coaching, a good book is Unfolding by Dr. Saba Hassani. So I would just recommend that. So can I end with some rapid-fire fun questions?

Okay.

If you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be?

Definitely Jacinda Ardern. Uh, I think she is the most, has been the most inspirational and amazing leader, compassionate. She embraced, has embraced diversity through really difficult, complex times, always people-centered, all at the same time as being Prime Minister and having a baby.

I know it does make, make me feel a little bit like an underachiever. She's extraordinary.

And true to her values, like she lives her values, has lived her values, lives her values. Just an amazing leader. And Nelson Mandela would be another person who I think would be in a similar category in terms, but I think she would just be, I'd be in awe of her. I'd just be sitting down trying to work out how I would talk. I'd just let her talk.

Ask questions.

Yeah.

Just ask questions and let her go. I do believe she's doing quite a lot of speaking and on the speaking circuit now.

So yeah, I'm not surprised.

Hopefully we'll get her over to Perth soon. What is a podcast or book that you would recommend to coaches?

Yeah, I, I like podcasts. They're quick and they're really helpful. I've got a few. The Imperfects is one that I listen to every week. And I've found, I discovered The Imperfects a few years ago and I just love the people that they get on and talking about vulnerability and just, it's that they're just human people that, that we can relate to. Obviously I listen to The Business of Executive Coaches and I find that reinforces a lot of the things that I'm doing in the Accelerator program. The Coaching Real Leaders, Muriel Wilkins, is interesting. She has a lot of different people and she asks really great questions. And the Diary of a CEO, Stephen Bartlett, is another one that I listen to. So they're the main—

Polarizing at the moment. Stephen Bartlett's quite the subject of contention this week.

Oh, is he? I haven't listened to him this week. Okay.

Very interesting. I think he's being, being challenged for being an over-optimizer. Because he said something about how he had, I think he had 3 glasses of wine and then his life was ruined for the next 5 days. And people are like, take a chill pill, Stephen. However, it is very polarizing. Not lots of opinions one way or another, but yes, very inspiring, particularly the people he talks to. Yeah.

And I think that's more it. I mean, they're very clever at the questions that they ask. Aren't they?

And he's an extraordinary business person, actually. You watch what he's built and he's still very young. Yeah.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Sorry, I interrupted there. I was like, ooh, this is interesting in the social media universe.

Yeah.

Great. Okay. Any books?

So a couple of the coaching books that I espouse to is anything that's Michael Bungay Stanier.

Yes.

He is, The Coaching Habit is great. Brené Brown. People wouldn't be surprised that Brené Brown's one of my favorites. The other one I was being coached and it was suggested to me to read was any, is the Kemi Neckbert-Pill. Neckbert-Pill.

She's amazing.

Full Power. And the other one, which is Grounded Success. And I love her work on values. And that's probably one of the areas that I got inspiration for doing my values work was from Kemi. But she's been interviewed by The Imperfects as well. She's been on The Imperfects a couple of times. And I would suggest anyone that's interested in this area go and find that, that particular podcast because she's just an amazing speaker.

Powerhouse. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. But the books are really great to read.

Excellent. Good too. I haven't listened to her. I haven't read her books, so I must.

Yeah. She's got maybe more than 2, but I've got 2 of her books. Yeah.

I've been meaning to read Power, so that's a great reminder. And Most essential tool or software that makes your business life better?

Oh, so I'm almost reluctant to put it out there, but AI.

Yeah.

I have never used or worked, done anything in AI. I was a bit frightened of it until about 12 months ago, but it's really helped me gain some confidence in some of what I'm doing. I'll write my work and then I'll, like my pod, My LinkedIn posts, I might put through AI just to check it out. Or if I'm doing a program and I just wanna check it, I'll pop it in there and I'll see what AI might give me back. So that's been helpful.

Yeah.

And has also helped create some confidence for me. The other thing that I didn't really understand until recently was the infographics on AI. So I had things that were handwritten and then popping that into AI and then seeing what it brings out. I was like, whoa, this looks polished and really, really good. So I've tried that a few times too and been really impressed with the quality coming out. I think there's caution because I, you do need to be really careful on the content and making sure that it actually still is. Yeah.

Yes.

It's accurate and that it's you. And LinkedIn has been a tool that's been very successful for me. And again, I was a bit of a lurker. On LinkedIn previously and occasionally going on there. Now it's a daily process and I've really embraced LinkedIn and that's where people tell me they see me. They don't necessarily let me know until they actually speak to me. And so there's a lot happening in terms of impressions, but not necessary comments or, but I'm starting to understand LinkedIn a little better and the algorithms and, and that's Another helpful tip from the Accelerator program, actually having someone who is with Kate Meriwether being a LinkedIn coach on that program has been incredibly helpful. Her tips are amazing.

Yeah.

And she's so down to earth. Yep.

Yeah, no, it's so practical. I love that.

Yep. Wow.

Those are amazing. I know I said I would only ask one of each, but thank you. The more the merrier. I think everyone listening in agrees. But thank you so much, Tracy. It's been wonderful to— I feel like I've learned a little bit more about you, and I think your ideas for coaches who are starting their businesses are so valuable. So thank you. And yeah, I will be seeing you soon. But for everyone listening in, I'll be back with more next week.

Thanks, Ellie.