Growing your brand as a coach and leader, with Janine Manning

Hello and welcome to the Business of Executive Coaching podcast. I am absolutely delighted to be here with Janine Manning. Now, Janine, it's hard to encapsulate everything that Janine does and her brilliance in a very short intro. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a headline and then I'm going to throw over to her to do a proper intro. But Janine is a coach. Janine is a consultant. And most of all, Janine is like a branding and imposter syndrome and leadership expert. So if you have any questions about that, definitely ask her. She is also an all round wonderful human being and I'm really delighted to have her here with us. So, Janine, welcome. It's great to have you here.

Great to be here.

Yeah. And I was wondering, could you introduce yourself a little bit more fully for us?

Absolutely. So, Ali, I mean, the best way to kind of, I guess capture what I do is I mainly work with new and emerging executives when they are looking to really navigate that complexity of stepping up into either into a new executive role or into an expanding executive role. So there's always a lot of kind of expansion of remit and also often a requirement for more visibility. And so for a lot of execs, that's kind of that feeling of kind of overwhelm when they need to be out there, be more seen and understanding, kind of how to explore that space. So for me, I kind of break it down into three areas. The first is always going to be clarity. So I always want to make sure that I can be in their corner. So to really help them get the strategies. And often for me, because I'm a CliftonStrengths certified coach, it's about strength strategies really leaning into their strengths to be able to build the strategy for themselves and feel like they're kind of got a very focused way to move forward. Then in addition to that, next is always going to be confidence. So as you've already mentioned, imposter syndrome, 67% of execs out there feel that they've got that fear. And not just executives, but just leaders in general really feel that imposter syndrome kick off and be triggered on a regular basis. So just just supporting my clients to, to recognize when they have been triggered to have some strategies kind of in their corner so they can lean into those moments and not just kind of stop and feel overwhelmed. And then finally is always the credibility pace. So when we're stepping up, even as an entrepreneur, as a new coach, coming into our own business as a new kind of executive, really feeling like we can lean into and own that new role, have the voice around it and just feel like we can, we can influence at the right level. So across kind of those three areas is where I support clients to then just kind of move forward and embrace and, you know, really go after their goals in that next role.

Amazing. And I am very, very conscious and perhaps slightly sneaky in that those are very much challenges for coaches starting businesses or coaches growing businesses as well. So all of your insights are, you know, really operate on two levels. So coaches listening to you, I'm sure, are going to be inspired by your story of growing your business. But also we'll learn about, you know, what it is that they can do to really, you know, really focus on those clarity, confidence and credibility anchors for themselves, which is super exciting. So before we dive into what you do now, what's your story? So tell us your story, like professionally, where'd you start out and how did you end up doing this work?

Yeah, so it's actually a really interesting story. My background's in marketing and pr, so I first started out in being part of big, massive sporting events. So, so in Australia, think of things like Hopman cup or in, in Perth, think about like Telstra Rally Australia, Whitford around the world yacht race. And so I was always part of a small, dynamic team. But I used to manage huge kind of cohorts of volunteers. So up to kind of 500 to a thousand volunteers.

And so I did not know this about you. Those are so good.

So at a very young age, I kind of had to learn to lead really quickly. And so I loved doing, doing the events and then moved offshore, work for BMW, then came back to Australia and stepped into a director's role. And so this was a massive step. I was 27 years of age, came into a director's role, nobody looked like me around the table and there was just a huge amount of anxiety and fear and overwhelm that happened, stepping into that role and having to kind of present to the board. And so I was given the opportunity of having an exec coach. And I absolutely just loved the entire experience. I was like a sponge soaking it all in. And then a couple of years later when I moved over to New Zealand, I married a Kiwi, moved to nz and I was kind of navigating. I was a GM in a role at the time and there was a lot of silos, a lot of issues happening. And I realized again that it would be great to Have a coach in my corner. And I was about, I don't know, probably six sessions into. Into that coaching session, also coaching program, and I was like, oh, hold on a second, stop. Tell me more about what you do. And that was just the beginning of it. I just. Absolutely. I've always loved being in the corner of my people. It's about creating passion for them. It's about creating that feeling of progression as well, much more than the profit side of the business. So that transition to coaching for me just felt effortless and it just felt like I really found my calling. So, yeah, I moved to coaching when I was 30.

Yeah, I love that. And I think a lot of coaches listening will really resonate with that corporate experience where you get a coach, right. And suddenly it unlocks something. And I hear it in a couple of ways. Either someone has a coach and it's like, oh, tell me more about what you do, or they learn to be a coach. So they go through some coach training at work and they're like, huh, this feels natural. So, yeah, I really, I really, I hear that story, and I'm sure lots of people will associate with that. So what did it feel like to make that decision though, to go all in on coaching and starting your own business? How did that transition play out for you?

I think I was really lucky in the sense that when I transitioned, I got picked up really quickly by an exec coaching company in New Zealand. So which was, which was phenomenal. So it rarely ever exists, those opportunities in today's kind of market, as far as I can, I've seen. But it was, it was a, it was a real switch up because I had to go from, you know, representing an organization to representing myself and that business. And I think more importantly, it was that mindset transition between wrapping my value up in what I've done for a very long time and being a leader and having that marketing and PR expertise and then having to pivot over and actually call myself a coach. Like that was the hardest part, I think owning, owning that title and then in my mind, the expectation that came and the responsibility that came with that title. So I think that was the biggest transition and just finding my language around it and being able to lean into it and while I was still growing the muscles to feel confident enough, still be showing up with confidence to build my clientele.

Yeah, but it sounds like there's like a really clear through line for you, right from the work you were doing as a leader into your business, which is around how. How do leaders show up in a way that feels, you know, confident and clear and credible. Because it will. I guess it does two things. It's not just allowing them to be better and more productive and do what they do better, but also that it's. Feels better. Right. It's a more. A more, you know, I guess, meaningful experience for them when they're having that. That feeling, going through it, I think.

At the end of the day. Oh, sorry.

No, no, go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, I. I couldn't agree more. I think we all do better work when we feel confident within ourselves. We all do better work when we recognize what our strengths are and we lean into our strengths. Right. I think that's where confidence comes from because we have so much more in the flow and, you know, we don't hesitate and, you know, we get quicker runs and wins because of that. So. I loved creating. You are right. That transition for me kind of went through, but I think that was the thread that took me through from being a manager and a leader to being a coach was helping people to really find that for themselves because it's just so core to then kind of thriving in what they do.

So tell us a little bit about who you work with now. Like, what sort of clients do you work with?

Yes, I'm across the gambit, really. So I have got a lot of private clients that come to me. So again, often executives that are stepping up bigger roles, they come to me privately often because the company doesn't have coaching in house. And so they're looking for someone in their corner to have really strategic conversations with. And more often than not, it's around. You know, we all know this as coaches. Right. People struggle with getting out of their comfort zones. Like, you know, we. Even as a coach, I struggle getting out of my comfort zone. I think it's about giving people the strategy, but also the support to help them to dial things up. So an example is I've got a client of mine who stepped up into a very big remit as the head of Asia for a financial institution that was growing into the Asia region. And she just wasn't visible at all. And so she knew she had to get visible, but it was a strategy of how to make it happen. And then it was actually being in her corner as she reached out and put her hand up for big opportunities. Like, you know, so she's been on Bloomberg now three times, which is incredible. Which is incredible. Incredible and absolutely terrifying for her in the lead up to it. Right. But it's. That's What I do. So I love being in people's corner. So a lot of private clients will come to me for that reason.

Yeah.

And then I've also got, in the mix of the private clients, I've got entrepreneurs that have also reached out to starting their own business. Again, not about building the business, but about, well, how do I show up and who am I going to be and how do I become more visible and be confident doing that? What does that sound like and look like? And then on the flip side, that a lot of corporate. So I'm an associate coach for a number of different companies, be that here in Australia, some in terms of exec coaching companies. I work with a consultancy over in Sydney, but I also do a lot of associate coaching. So I'm in a coaching pool for lots of big companies, kind of predominantly through Asia and the US as well.

And, and like, is there a difference in the work that you do in organizations versus individuals who come with you or is it just come to you or is it just a different model of contracting?

Yeah, good question. I know. Do you know what? The work is the same. The client is the client. The client is the person that's in that room with me. So the work itself is the same when it comes to the corporate coaching partnership. And there's sponsors that we also need to be mindful of and business objectives. I think it's just about being much more aware upfront, having a lot more alignment meetings to really understand where there is alignment, where there isn't, what those objectives look like and making sure we're really clear up front about those for the business.

Yes.

And also making sure as we go through. It's that beautiful dance. Right. Making sure the business gets what they want, but also to making sure the client who, you know, is across from me is really getting what they need as well. So the work is the same, but definitely the contracting and the, the setup of the clarity of the objectives and the reporting piece is also a big part of it.

Sure. But I'm imagining that corporate clients are still coming to you because you have this expertise, Right. This deep special and expertise in visibility and leadership and presence and confidence and all of those things. So same sort of.

Same, same, same. Often what will happen on the corporate side is people will be, they'll come to me because they can see someone's got a huge amount of potential, but they, the individual can't see it within themselves. Right. So I, and I love that or you know, there's a reason why they're not stepping up at a client who couldn't, wasn't stepping up to partner on several occasions and the company couldn't unlock that with them. So having just an external person to have that conversation really unpack it. So say you're right. The same themes, different kind of reasons, initial reasons for reaching out, but always come back to the same kind of core around kind of brand and confidence being kind of just that real sense of clarity and self and lots of strategies to help them move forward with confidence.

Yeah. And I mean I've always found like running my coaching business that lots of organizations come, came to me and my pool of coaches with this really vague challenge that their leaders were experiencing which was they need to develop leadership presence. Like is that, is that something that you find as well? Because I think it's the like that can't quite put my finger on it kind of thing. How do you, how do you deal with that? Sort of a brief.

Yeah. So you are right. It's the gravitas or, or the presence piece. How do I, how do I kind of map that out? I think at the end of the day we've always got to understand when we are building a brand, if we are building a brand, we want to understand a number one, most importantly, what does that look like and sound like for ourselves. So how do we want to be known? How do we show up on a regular basis to make that happen? And those things are all in our control. Where it comes in a corporate sense is at the same time too, it's getting clarity on what the corporate expectation is. Right. Of their leaders at that level. And I think that that's where I can kind of marry over the two and get more clarity. Work with a CL on really owning and connecting with who they want to be and the legacy they want to create and how they want to, you know, how the reputation they want to build. Right. And how they want to show up and have confidence doing that. But then also then helping them to map over to and have clarity of the understanding of what's expected in that organization of a leader at that level. And I think that's how I'm able to take this murkiness and create it into something concrete. Especially my coaching perspective, when you're coaching internally within corporates, like you've got to have those objectives, you've got to have the metrics, you've got to be able to showcase some tangible shifts and change and that always comes back to setting those objectives from the get go. So in those situations, again, just getting clarity and really getting the company to bed down on their expectations and the understanding. And sometimes I just find with clients that they haven't actually had that conversation, that transparency isn't there with the organization. Sometimes it's just about being that conduit and saying, actually this is the expectation. Now let's map over to it. And often clients are like, I never knew that. Like no one's ever communicated that.

And sometimes, you know, it's pushing back, isn't it, on the organization and saying, well, hang on, are we expecting this one model of what leadership looks like? And are we, are we actually conscious of the fact that we're creating a monoculture and that we're creating, you know, this one, you know, often a staid old model of what presence must look like in this. So, so yeah, there's some interesting, interesting.

I literally pushed back on that this week. So I was having a conversation with a client of mine, the client is in Japan, the sponsors in a western country. And I was literally pushing back on that because we don't want robots. We want individuals who can tailor how they show up underneath and with alignment obviously to the business objectives and the company's brand. But you know, not everybod is going to be, you know, that loud, commanding individual that walks in and that isn't what success looks like. Like we've got so many different leaders who look so different and sound so different, but once they've tapped into and connected with how they want to show up and how they're going to create impact that way. And I do agree with you, I think sometimes you absolutely got to take the company on that journey and make them realize there are multiple different ways to have really successful leaders. Yeah. And just helping them to see, you know, how this leader wants to represent themselves and their road and their journey, their pathway through to being a successful leader. Yeah, Again, being that conduit again. Right. It comes up so often.

Oh yeah. And like with intercultural cross cultural dynamics as well. Really, really important that we're having that conversation.

What about.

So of course, let me steer this into a very self serving way. What about entrepreneurs? Right, so small business owners, people who are starting businesses, what do you see as the biggest challenges they have? You see, particularly when it comes to things like visibility, personal brand confidence, like how does that show up?

Yeah. So the biggest issue I often say, and I nip in the bud from the get go is comparison. Right. There's that Brene Brown quote, which is what is it? Comparison is a thief of joy. Right. And I Think that's what I often say when people launch a business, you know, and I've got a lot of coaches around me, a lot of consultant friends around me as well. So when we launch a business, we do it for the right reasons, but often we compare ourselves to benchmarks in the market. Right. And so from a visibility perspective, I find that most people kind of get lost in that world of comparison, and where do I sit and can I actually have a voice that is different to other people? And it's just a beautiful reminder that no two people are alike. Right. We've all got our own map of the world. We've all been raised differently and had different experiences, and different moments in life have made us who we are. We draw down on all of those to bring something different, a different perspective. Right. And a different way. So, you know, I often remind my clients that two people can be saying the same thing, but it's how we say it. We're going to attract and connect to different people.

Yeah.

And so I think it's about. From a visibility perspective, it's about taking that beat to pause and really stop and think about the strategy behind how you want to show up. Like, what do you want your brand to represent? How do you want to shape your reputation now going into this new kind of, you know, business? What do you want to be known for? And what does that actually look like? So I think it's one thing to put up in lights and go, this is my brand. But the reality is our brands are how people experience us. Everything from the barista queue through to the boardroom. Right. It's every touch point that people have every single day. And so what I love to help people understand is that once you can get a strategy around that and give yourself a bit of a playbook, it then just takes away the pain and having to think that through. And I think there and sits the authenticity that starts to bubble through a lot more quickly and that they feel like they can be more themselves. So I think it's number one. It's probably that in terms of that comparison pace and just putting that to bed as much as possible. It's easier said than done, but really just setting yourself up to be successful by really thinking through who you want to be and your why and the legacy you want to create and what's in your control to do that. And then I think the second thing that in terms of visibility and getting out there is often we go from big corporate careers or some other career and we make the pivot into having a business and being the face of being the voice behind having to advocate for self versus actually advocating for a product or somebody else. It's really different.

Yeah.

And most people struggle with it. So again, what I would always just say to people is, going back to your strengths. I was speaking to a client of mine during the week and he is a phenomenal speaker, like just phenomenal. And just loves keynotes. I mean, who loves keynotes? Most people don't. It's Right. Yeah, but that's it. That's his thing. He loves keynotes. And I just said to him, look, well, you know, let's match your strengths to what you love to do. And if that's the visibility you want to create to get out there and to be representing yourself more, then we'll dial that up. But I have plenty of clients out there that. That's their idea of hell. It's my idea of hell as well. And so again, it's about. Well, when we start to get out there and start to have a very small steps, start in a place where you're feeling comfortable initially so you can try things on for size talk. You know, the more we repeat what we say, the more we believe it, the more we can finesse it, the more comfortable we can get leaning into it, the more evidence we create. So I think it is just about knowing what you want to say, getting clarity on making that shift, that talking about yourself, what those key messages are, and then play to your strengths when it's about getting out there. Right. So a lot of my clients is more one on one initially going out to smaller networking groups or smaller kind of settings. Sometimes it's more about writing where you can think about before you actually release it and get comfortable and maybe get your tribe to have a look at it first. So I think it's just, you know, those smaller approaches where you can feel more confident, but also don't shy away from being your real self. And I think having a bit of a strategy up front will enable you to do that. But it's coloring in lines, as per se.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's definitely like inside the accelerator. I think that piece about getting clear on it's like, who are you talking to? But also like, what is. What are your unique differentiators? Sounds terrible. But what is your story? How does your story play out in how you want to show up as a coach? And I think that's a really beautiful thing for people to anchor to when it feels like they have to be out there. Adding value in every single post and on LinkedIn. And in fact, there is this sort of coming back to. Hang on, who am I? What's important to me? What are my strengths and how do I use that in service of my clients? I really like that.

Ali. The accelerator was phenomenal, even for me. So I'm almost. I've actually just clicked over 18 years of coaching, which seems insane. And going through the accelerator, for me, it just brought me back in again. It helped me to finesse again who I'm speaking to. And I think sometimes as opportunities roll in and we grab opportunities and we, you know, that scarcity kicks in at times like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then we find ourselves so far away from our why and often away from the work that we love to do because it's not in our, you know, it's not applying to our strengths or into those areas that we really want to niche into. So I think from a. I think what I love about the accelerator is also that niche piece, because I think when we can own our niche or we can identify our niche, even how fuzzy it is initially, it just enables us to put our direction and our focus on one thing. And my suggestion around that, too. I think often when we start out as entrepreneurs, we think more is best. I don't agree. I think less is more. I think simplify it, Identify that one thing you want to do really well, build up your brand around it, build up your voice around it, build up your product or your service around it, finesse it, do it well, and then move on. And then your brand can expand out to, you know, to a wider niche, as per se. So I think it just kind of paring it back and that's why I love that accelerator. Just reminded me again to pause, get up onto that balcony and be really strategic.

Yeah.

When I came back into the Aussie.

Market and it comes, you know, as you talk, it's really. It's really reinforcing to me that it helps to sort of hold it a bit lightly and have this sense of experimentation. Right. That I'm, you know, I will figure out what I want to say and who I want to be in some ways, by actually experimenting and putting it out there and seeing what, what, what sticks and what doesn't. And I must say, I still do that. Right. I put things out there and I go, oh, that didn't actually really land with how I want to be as a person or as a. As a business owner. And sometimes I, like, just type something and I'm like, yes, that turns out that's a deeper message than I realized I actually had. So I really like that.

It's not about perfection, right? It's all about that progress. And I think, you know, the more we lean into identifying or exploring and playing with who we want to be as an entrepreneur, as a coach, as a consult, I think there. There sits kind of even deeper truth. And I think if we can be open to that and just keep morphing and shaping our brand and how we want to show up and our voice and our niche and giving ourselves permission to do that. I still get up on the balcony on a monthly basis at the moment, and I look back and go, all right, what went really well this week? What didn't work this week? Where am I kind of going too far off pace because maybe the scarcity's kicked in or a great opportunity's come my way? And I'm like, well, that's amazing, but does it actually connect to what I want to do? So I think getting up on that balcony on a regular basis just to, you know, just to play and explore and further lean into. What are you learning about yourself and what does this say about kind of the business that you can grow and the type of audience you want to attract? I think give ourselves permission. Right, because as we grow, so too will how we want to shape everything that we do and the impact we want to. We want to have in the world.

And the good news, I think, for entrepreneurs is that we can. We can be a little lighter with it. We can. We can, you know, have a bit more fun with it. We perhaps have a bit more freedom than a leader who is in an organization and has some additional constraints. So that's kind of good news.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think. I think we. I think we get a bit too caught up sometimes also when you're starting your business and, you know, the logo and the name, and we kind of get so focused on these things, and we think it's going to stay with us forever. I mean, things. You know, things to evolve. How many. How many iterations did your business go through? I know many in 18 years. Mine's gone through a lot as well. And I do agree. I think as entrepreneurs, we do have that gift of being able to. To. To shift and take our community and our tribe on that journey with us. And the deeper the relationships we build, the more they'll come with us as we go. Right. And I think very different to a lead. I mean, leaders building that tribe, obviously, with their team and the people that are around them and trying to influence, but being able to make the P. The P. And the shifts that we can make, you know, with a lot less red tape and a lot more agility, I think it's a real gift to the courageous decision that we've made to go out and do the work we love to do. And often that looks like, you know, having your own business.

Yeah. When you think about, you know, your business journey and growing. Growing your business, like, what have the hardest parts been?

Yeah. So I think the hardest part is going. Is always, for me, it's the tech side. Right. Like, that's just hell. And I just. I've always known who I am. I've always known the people I wanted to serve.

Yeah.

So. And as you said before, that's just been an extension of marketing pr, going into that brand and confidence pace. But I think for me, it's about having the systems and the processes and the tech clarity to be able to scale your business. And so, you know, coming back to. I was in Hong Kong for, you know, better part of a decade. I came back to Aussie, and when I came back, I reached out to you because I'm like, you know, I know there's a really, a much more efficient way of doing this. And your structures and your systems give you. For me, they give me the peace of mind that I can focus on the work I love to do, knowing that everything else is as efficient as possible. And I'm not dropping balls, which, of course, then impact, you know, how people perceive you and your brand. So for me, that's the key pace that's always been the hardest bit, is kind of bidding those down. And that's what I've loved. And I'm still going through very slowly, I have to admit, like going through the accelerator program behind the scenes and ticking things off and, you know, and there are so many great ways to do that. So that's probably. That's probably the biggest hurdle, I think.

Yeah. Amazing. On, you know, on the flip side, what are you. What are you most proud of in terms of what you've. You've built with your business?

Oh, it's always the client stories. I got a beautiful email sent to me yesterday from a client that I coached back in 2023. So she was part of a US tech company that I work on their leadership program. They run the program every two years. And she sent me the most beautiful email, just saying to me, janine, the declaration I made you in that branding workshop has laid down the foundation and she listed off the things that she's now gone and done, including just kicking off, funnily enough, a coaching program. Right. So it's that for me it's, it's the stories where clients just, they, they grow. I've got a client who was a lawyer and hated being a lawy and she, we've been working kind of on and off together for four years. She has launched a, an environmental advocacy that's just been given charitable status. She's now pulling together a board from around the world based on her reputation, her brand and the visibility that she's created. If those stories, it's helping clients. I've got a gentleman that I'm working with in a moment, a guy who began call it the finance world and he very introverted and his way of getting out there, he knows he needs to get out there but just helping him have a strategy, energy to lean into his strengths. And now he does all these micro events as he travels the world and it's an invite only situation. And these great minds in a room and they unpack something that's happening in industry, you know, over a few glasses of whiskey. And that's his thing. And it's, you know, there's a bit of a, bit of a vibe about it now and people are like, oh, am I going to get the invite when he comes to Singapore and he comes to Dubai? And so for me, the greatest work and what I'm most proud of is really just helping people to realize what they're capable of and having the confidence and the strategies to get out there and do it. I think we need more empowered people in this world doing work they love. And that's just, I'm so honored that I get to do that work on a day to day basis.

I love that. And I think as coaches, like we need to stay really connected to that, that mission and that impact we have. Because sometimes the, you know, the grind of marketing and business development can feel like if we're not connected to. Hang on, this is why I'm doing it. That can feel really like a lot of hard work and it can feel like there's a bit of questioning about is this really worth it? Even though I would say we can grow to love those parts of our business as well. How do you stay connected to that? You know, those wins and the client impact? Like do you collect them in a document? Testimonials, do you review that on a regular basis? Like what do you do?

So I have a thing which I get all my clients to do. Call it what you want, but I've always called it a brag book and it's not for anyone else but for me. And so I've got this beautiful, it's just actually behind me, a beautiful gold glittery number. And every time I get feedback from a client or a client shares a big win, or I push myself out of my comfort zone and deliver on something that I'm actually really proud of, or I hit a business objective, I capture that down in my brag book because I find that although we are in a community of gorgeous human beings who have chosen this profession, be it coaching or consulting, to support other people, it can feel quite lonely at times and isolated at times when we do our work. So, you know, I would say 75% of my work is offshore, kind of Asia US and the other 25% is here in Australia. And so I love that because sometimes you just need to remind yourself, especially if you come off the back of a tough coaching session or you've got to lean into doing something like tech. For me, that isn't my forte. Just reminding myself of why I'm doing this and the impact I'm having. So a brag book for me, I've got other clients that, for me it's a non negotiable. With all my clients, they have something. Clients have got like an email folder. They pop things into little notes themselves. I've got another client who, who is creating an amazing mural. So he is, yeah, so he's very, very artistic and so every time something happens he's adding to his mural. And so this mural is growing over time. Yeah, voice memo notes as well. So I've got a lot of clients that love to kind of walk or they're on the, they're on the train to and from work and so they leave themselves a voice memo. But I think at the end of the day it's just pausing, getting up on that balcony again and just taking a moment to reflect on the work we do and, and, and you know, why we do it. And I think it's critically important.

I love this. I mean, I always recommend I've got an email folder called Positive Reinforcement where I just go back to it and I'm like, oh yes, that's, that's right, that's what we do. This is, this is also powerful. But I love that idea of something really tangible like a brag book. I actually, I think I'm going to do that. And I would say, anyone listening, if you don't have a way that you're capturing just those little, those emails just off the cuff from a client saying I had a great session today. Right. Or you know, this is what happened as a result of the end of engagement feedback. Or the organizational sponsor saying hey, this is, you know, here's some feedback that we've observed. Like you have to do that, like it's so important. This is sort of slightly peripheral. Do you have a formal way that you capture feedback from your, your coaching engagements?

Yeah. So at the end of my coaching engagements I do send out a form to my clients. So I'm always, you know, always looking to enhance experience.

Yeah.

And you know, it's, I do it in two ways. So one is when people complete their coaching with me, there's a form that they complete to give me feedback and help me to be a better coach and to have better experience etc and then also usually about once a year to every 18 months I will do a personal brand questionnaire. So it is anonymous and I'm tracking people's experience. So not of my coaching as per se, but just the overarching like what are people thinking? How do people experience me? What's my tone, how do I show up? So I think it's incredibly important. Right. I think I obviously also get that feedback when it comes to the corporate. So there's already kind of built in kind of feedback loops with regards to that. But critically important, I think when you're doing your one on one with clients that they don't just go off into the ethos after that point.

Yeah.

And I also check in with my clients as well. So a big part of how I've built my business because I'm not someone that loves to be front and center, is through referrals. I've spent a lot of time building referrals and so I'm always checking in with my clients. So after a client finishes, usually around the three and six month mark, I'll chuck, you know, chuck out an email and, or give them a phone call and say, hey, where are things at? What shifted for you? What are your greatest challenges still? What do you think is moving forward for you? And sometimes it's reminding them of some of the strategies that they've got in their pocket.

Yeah.

So it's always good to also get that feedback because sometimes we all know this, the magic happens between the coaching sessions. Right. So when people are applying what they're learning and sometimes when they have like a six month program, they've absorbed so much they need another Six months to apply and try things on for size. So I love kind of connecting back in with them for that reason. Often, often then you actually get more deeper understanding of the impact and what's really worked for them because they've managed to try it on for size.

Yeah.

And obviously it's a beautiful way to continue to build good referrals as well and those deeper relationships and more work potentially as well.

Well, I think that's such a great idea for people which is to make sure that once our clients stop being or our coaches stop being our coaches, that's not the end of the journey. Because actually what we want to do is create these ongoing relationships, whether it's for more working with that person again, but also to become part of their referral network. And yeah, that's a great tip.

It is so much easier to get work from people who have experienced you, they know what you're about because they're going to put you forward to people that are like minded and very similar. And I, well, I definitely find that the, the sale time, that the conversion time cuts down to, you know, a much shorter period of time and I think just an incredible extra way to continue to build kind of have as a funnel coming in. I think often we kind of think, especially when we first start out, there's got to be new people, new people, new people. And it doesn't.

Yeah.

And I'm kind of living proof of that. I, I've done no marketing and I know now that I'm in Australia I'm going to be ramping that up. But honestly it's all come through referral and those relationships that I've built and those continuous touch points. I had someone the other day refer after 7 years, I haven't seen him for 7 years and he reached out to me, bounce something with me and said, oh, I've got someone that I need to put you in contact with. And so you know, so that it's very powerful.

Yeah. And like I go on and on about warm outreach. Right. And so I think this sort of connection with these people who've been your clients in the past is, is so valuable. And warm outreach isn't just about I want you to become client. It's like who's in your network, what, you know, what are we going to do? Not that we necessarily reach out with the intention of it. Right. What we need, we need that decision to really sit with them. But, but actually becoming front and center and reconnecting with people is so powerful.

I also think too that Ellie, back to your point before. I think one of the hardest things that we do when we kind of transition to having our own business is constantly having that BD hat on. But the reality is from a business development there's always opportunities. Right. And I think we've got to give ourselves permission and people actually expect to have that conversation. Because you're a business. Right. And if you don't have the conversation, there's also a bit of a question as to, you know, why we don't have that conversation. Yeah, right, yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, and I think maintaining those warm relationships just makes that conversation so much easier. Right. And it's just, it's a bit of a no brainer. It organically kind of comes up. So.

Yeah, that's right. So we want to get to, we want to be having real conversations and in those conversations we need to be talking about, about what we do. And yeah, particularly we've worked together before. I feel like that's like a real, an invitation to get down to business a lot quicker than we might with someone who, who we're trying to develop as a client. And I think that that's an interesting dynamic because I talk a lot about, you know, really we're trying to, trying to start the wheel turning right, with those first clients, the first batch of clients. But what I maybe don't talk about enough is that what, once we have that core set of clients, it gets so much easier. Right. The energy doesn't, it doesn't require more and more business development energy as you get further into your career. It requires less because, and that's why I talk a lot about organizational clients because we want more opportunities coming from, you know, the existing clients that we have. But it applies with individuals as well. But yeah, we're trying to, I guess, you know, getting the wheel started takes a lot of energy, but then it starts to really be something that is quite self sustaining to some degree. Even though you do have to keep doing your marketing. I'm just putting that out there for anyone who's listening to me thinking, no.

Stop your marketing visibility. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I kind of went very dark on LinkedIn when I returned to Australia. I was just kind of not sure how to position myself in the Aussie market. And so I kind of just stayed quiet for a while. The moment I started to shop again on LinkedIn, like it was an immediate, the immediate ROI, right. You can see it come straight through. So it is that momentum, right? We build that momentum and that momentum there's nothing more powerful than somebody else advocating on your behalf. So much more powerful than you saying I'm great at this or this is what I can do and how I can help you versus actually somebody else kind of saying that for you. And I think that's ideally what we're looking for, building up of that momentum and then maximizing each of those touch points that we have with people. And that's why it's always great to have those Microsoft kind of events that we do. Or, you know, whether it's a, you know, end of year planning session or it's a, you know, fresh start to the year or it's kind of going into Q2 and it just brings, it's a reason to reach out to your already existing people. And whether it's them or who do they know, it's again, it's just a beautiful way to feed the funnel in a really, really delightful way that doesn't feel hard from a BD perspective.

Yeah, I love that. And, and like those micro events are something that I've used over the years. You know, particularly things like, like breakfast briefings where you, you bring together your clients who really want to connect with each other. Right. And what you're doing is you're facilitating this network. You're not necessarily like presenting a lot of content, but you have this opportunity to be the orchestrator of a conversation. And that in fact positions you even better because of the social proof that's coming from, from this and that, that, you know, I've always found opportunities flow. And it's also, like you said, a good way just to remind people. Right. Here I am.

And yeah, it's also the credibility piece as well. Right. Like it's kind of if you can do those, those breakfast briefings or the latest trends that are coming through. Yeah, whatever it is, it just anchors you again in that niche areas. You're building your brand as an authority. And even if you say like, even if you're not the one talking, but you're the one facilitating the conversation, moderating the conversation, you're still up there. You're leveraging off of the people that are in the room, the conversations that we're having, the research that we're talking about, and it's just a beautiful anchor point, but also it's also a great way to bring a friend. If you know someone that's really interested in this, bring a friend because this is really powerful kind of information. And again, within doubling kind of our visibility in a beautiful organic way that is through warm Introductions. Super powerful.

Love that. You know, that's a good thing for everyone to consider. I think coming to the end of the year is that there's like a natural opportunity to do something like that. You know, either late November, early December, I would say don't push it too close to the Christmas. Christmas holiday. If you're in a country that celebrates and then, you know, into the new year, sort of that late January space is a really good time to do those sorts of things either around new year cycles or budgeting cycles. Not that that's what we're talking about, but it, but it is, you know, the subtext that exists and then just choose a topic for discussion. That is something people in your ideal client sectors are caring about. I think that's, you know, know that that's topical, that's. They're talking about, they care about and they want to talk about other people. Talk to other people in same similar roles about. Yeah. So that's a very excellent idea. So, Janine, I want to ask you a few fun questions, if that's okay.

Yeah, of course.

I will declare to. To the audience that I have been given these as questions without notice, but I've decided to give notice because. So Janine has had some notice. Not sure how deep she's. But just because I was really putting people on the spot. Okay, so my first question, if you could coach in anyone in the world, who would it be?

Honestly, I think I would love to coach Jacinta Arden. So isn't she amazing?

Yeah.

I've watched her because obviously being married to a Kiwi, I was in New Zealand for six years. I've watched her come up the ranks from this really quiet, opinionated, but she was behind the scenes and then kind of leading into what, what she's gone through and now see, seeing her progress, post that as well. And there's so much grace, there's so much growth that she's gone through in.

The public eye and she's talking now like she's letting it out, which I love.

Which is brilliant. Right. And she's got a real voice out there and she's redefined, redefined her value. And I think that's a key piece that most people struggle with. I would love to coach her because I think as coaches, when we coach, we learn so much as well. Right. Like there's so much that we get so much kind of behind the scenes and insights that we get. So. So yeah, if I got to choose anyone right now, I think she's pretty front and center and she would be my choice.

Amazing. That reminds me, I really need to listen to the Kamala Harris interview on Diary of a CEO, which I haven't listened to yet, but it sounds like she's also just, she's. The gates are open, she's talking. So.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'll be jumping on that as well. What do you have a podcast or a book that you would recommend to.

So for me, honestly at the moment is mainly around imposter syndrome. So I just, just so many of my clients come to me. I think it's, it's really at the end of the day, we need to be mindful of when we're being triggered. And so there's two different books, there's two different people I've studied under. So there is, there's should literally have them in front of me, but I don't. There's a book by Valerie and I should know her surname. Isn't that terrible? It's escaped me. I will send them through to you.

Yeah, but there's perfect.

There's two imposter syndrome books. So Valerie, I've studied under Valerie. She's incredible. Very scientific based. So for those of you that like to go much deeper into the understanding and the kind of science behind kind of imposter syndrome and the case studies that come behind it and then Dr. Lisa Orb is the other one and she, her, her attack on imposter syndrome is much more practical. So for people that like to have models and methodologies to walk through, then that would be my suggestion. But I've yet to find a client or a coach or a friend that I, that is in my life that doesn't have some form of imposter syndrome. And I think it's about learn to dance with it because otherwise it holds us back and before we know it, we're kind of flying under the radar or going into procrastination kind of state to deal with it versus if we're a business owner, we've got to be out there, right? We can't let those moments stop us because sometimes they can derail us for days, months, years. Right. So my recommendations will be those two and I will pop their details through.

She y. I absolutely will. Thank you. And finally, what is an essential office tool, software or item that you have that makes your business life better?

So this is that tech stack, right, that I'm not great with. However, there are a couple of things I did think about. So I've always been a zero user. Absolutely love it, love it. From an accounting Perspective because it everything but love it because I can actually scan my receipts, right. Boom, done on the fly. Yes. That is a good thing.

Yeah. If you're on the fence about Xero or one of those tools, choose one where you can scan your receipt straight in.

Yeah. And. But make sure you also do the research around what do they actually have an app themselves? Because otherwise there's lots of kind of connections that have to happen. But I love Xero for that reason. I use OnceHub as a scheduling tool for my calendar because I do a lot of work internationally. So what I love about ones hub, you can slice it and dice it into different time zones and you can do different blockings and. And so I've been using this for a very long time and it's absolutely just worked a treat. Connects to Zoom and everything else. So that's a bit of a game changer and the jury's out. But I am making the move to Kajabi for everything. Amazing. Because I am not a tech. I don't have tech strength. I have made the decision to get it all under one house, one banner, everything in there, so I can just streamline and learn one platform versus having to connect.

Yeah.

In a past life I used to have an assistant that used to help with things for me, like a virtual assistant. Va. He did all of this for me and it was incredible. But when I looked under the hood and realized what I had to wrap my head around, it was a lot and it was talk about imposter syndrome and going into kind of procrastination state. So for those of you that are a bit like me, bit kind of, you know, tech inefficient and you know, get a bit scared by that. I'm, I'm checking out Kajabi because it's literally all in one by the looks of it so far. But what I, I need at the moment in my business.

Yeah. All right, I'll put, I think I've got a 30 day free trial. I'll put that in the show notes as well for people if they want to give it a go. But thank you. Those are amazing, Janine. And like your insights are so, so, so valuable. And if people want to connect with you, get in touch, learn more about what you do, what are the best ways to contact you?

Yeah, so the best ways are obviously just straight, straight in terms of email. So janine@janinemanning.com there's my website, same, you know, same handling. I'm on LinkedIn, so connect with me on LinkedIn. I do write regular pieces on LinkedIn as well, so reach out. Outside of that, I've limited my socials. I go back to my own principles of do it and do it well. So at the moment, that is kind of LinkedIn for me. So that's kind of where you can.

Find me perfect love. And I love that there's a tip to do. Just pick one socials until you really got it embedded before you think about any others. I think that's a very good, good tip as well. So thank you, Janine. I really appreciate your time. It has, as always, been a delight to have you with us. And I just know that there are going to be so many golden, golden tips that people are going to take away from today. So thank you.

Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for your time.

See ya.