Katrina Casaclang - From Community Impact To Coaching for Impact – Accelerator Member Profile

Welcome to the business of executive coaching podcast. I'm Ellie Scarf and I'm very, very fortunate to be here with Katrina Cassa Klang and Katrina is a coach, facilitator and all consultant and all around fabulous human being and member of the accelerator. And I'm so pleased to have you here. Katrina, welcome.

Thanks Ellie. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor.

Oh no, it's so good to have you. And I thought I could read your, read your bio, but actually I thought it'd be much better coming from you as an introduction. So I was wondering if we could start by you sharing a little bit about your, your backstory. Really? So what got you to a place where you decided being a coach was a, was a good idea?

Oh, it is a long story, but.

We want the story. Give us the whole story.

I won't give you the whole story, but I guess over 34 years I have, you know, I started my 19, started my career in the New South Wales police force and joined the police force straight out of high school and you know, did 13 years in different areas in the police force and then left after two children and moved into, went into some private hospital doing some administration work in the emergency department. Still sort of staying in that emergency sort of space. And then, yeah, we had a move to Queensland and I sort of, after a few different jobs went into restorative justice and then went into a project role with the Queensland Police and the Queensland pcyc. And I guess I started to then dabble in that, both sides, you know, working with young people who disengaged families who had young children who had, you know, long term suspensions and then starting to dabble in that community services space and then went across and worked for a very long time, 11 years at a great. Not for small, not for profit on the Gold Coast. Shouldn't say small, they're actually quite big, but I just love that space, manage programs, manage people. And then went into youth mental health and yeah, so over 34 years I've always worked in community like frontline community services.

I can hear that.

Yeah. So as to how I got into coaching, I think the thing that was so important to me through that whole process was the managers I had, the leaders I had. And when I say leaders, they could have been people under me that I was actually managing. But just knowing that to deliver a really great quality service to the community, you have to have really great quality people who are supported and have great mentors, great leaders around them and you Know for the last couple of years at Origin, which is, you know, the leading youth mental health organization in Melbourne, I had the opportunity to do professional support and it really started to hit me just how important it was. And sometimes, and I say that because there are some amazing people, but sometimes that lacking that leadership or not having the expertise or being thrown into roles of leadership and not having that sort of support around you really impacted how you did your day to day job. And yeah, I guess I sort of came to the conclusion that I'd love to go out there and do this out back in the community and support services that didn't have what we were offering. You know, the government was funny and we were offering. So. Yeah, so.

So I'm imagining that if I think back to when you started as a police officer for at, what did you say, 19, not 18?

Actually 18. I was at the police academy at 18 and I graduated one week after I turned 19.

So I'm imagining that there wasn't a lot of talk of coaching or culture or you know, leadership or self awareness at that time. Like when do you first remember being interested in, in that sort of thing?

Look, it's an interesting question. My, I was the daughter of a police officer and dad was, you know, a country police officer. We moved around every three or four years and so it's a really funny question but as you get older you reflect and I think I saw leadership all the time in the way my dad reacted and reacted with people in the community and in his role he was always really highly regarded and I saw my mum have to go into spaces and get us into integrate a family into a town really quickly. So I guess I always saw leadership within my family. And even when I first joined the police force I had some amazing sergeants or senior police officers that were just really quality people. So I think right from the word dough I always knew that you looked for someone or you look to someone who you. Who aligned with your values and who you trust. When I say trusted, you trusted that what they were doing was ethical. Right. You know, and was going to lead you further along. So I don't know whether it wasn't probably until I went probably when I worked at Ohana for Youth, which is the, which was at that time another known by another name. But and I had my first team, I think I had about 14 youth workers that I was managing. That's when I really realized how important my leadership skills were to, you know, making sure that these people that I was, I guess entrusted with and Were, you know, how important it was that how I managed them was going to impact how they did their job.

Yeah. And when did you first hear of coaching as an idea like or as a concept, do you remember?

Look, probably very late in my career and I guess I always thought of it and you know, we might come to that. But as executive coaches, I always thought that was something for high flying executives.

The CEO or the CEO.

Yeah, yeah. Really white collar, not sorry, but big organizations. Yeah, maybe I, maybe I saw it on a few American TV shows or something like that, but I didn't really actually truly understand the concept of it for me or for my world until I probably till we were doing professional support and I was managing that team and I was like, wow, this is so impactful. Why, you know. Yeah, so I know that's terrible. I don't know if that's the answer.

Well, it's actually a very common answer which is that a lot of coaches go through their career and they are naturally inclined in that they are, they innately know that they are passionate about people, that they see the role of a leader and that being a leader they want to, you know, they have certain characteristics which is, you know, which we look at now and we say, oh yeah, they're very much coaching, coaching attributes. But many if not most coaches that I know didn't find the formal practice of coaching either for themselves or as something they did until quite late in their career. But it doesn't mean they weren't doing it. It just means they didn't have a formal set of language or tool set around it. And it sounds like you're in that category. So how did you make the decision to start your business as a coach?

Yeah, look, it had probably, as I said, it's you always, when people ask you that question, you like to have some really, you know, critical moment or something clear. But I think it's with lots and lots of things. I've always been quite entrepreneurial. I've always thought I've just loved always working with people. The thing that I've always loved the most about any job I've ever had. And if you've ever done one of those activities where you've gone back through and sort of looked at all your jobs, it's always the people and it's always building the team up around me. And I had, I've had the absolute pleasure of working with some of the best people. You know, I've worked with some people that aren't so great, but I've worked with some amazing people and I've had some amazing leaders. And, you know, I've always thought the people around me should know more than I do. But what I feel like I've always had the skill was how can I take what they have and help them really uncover that and also become, you know, you know, make our job easier, but, you know, deliver to the community or whatever we're being funded to do, or whatever my role was. So I think I've got off track with exactly what your question was, but I think it was just a slow burn. It was just a slow burn where I went, you know what? I. I just wanted to be partly. Have a bit more flexibility.

Yeah.

I wanted to probably have a little bit more control around my own decision making. And I also just felt there's something I could offer to people.

Yeah. Because having known you for a while now, as a member of the accelerator, I. The thing I really take from all of our interactions, Katrina, is just how purpose driven you are, which is that there's this group, this community that you want to influence for the better and that you want to help to, you know, to increase. I guess it's building better work experiences, better workplaces, but also better communities. Like, there's a real ripple effect, I think, in what you do. How would you describe the work you do now?

Yeah. So what I have, you know, and with your help, I will say with your help of helping define that, because it's really, really hard to go out on your own and then go, okay, what does this look like? Yeah. And just actually going one step back to a question you said before. I think the other driving factor was, as I said, I started in the police force and I've seen, you know, so many friends and family who've suffered from PTSD or, you know, that whole culture of not being supported. So there was lots of different areas I've worked in and it was really hard to sort of combine all of those.

Yeah.

And I think I got to a point where I went. I felt it was time to. I really felt this. Draw. This drawn to kind of support lots of areas. Does that make sense where, you know, as you know, when you're aligned in a certain career path or, you know, organization, you sort of focus on that. But. Yeah, so that. So sorry, I know I've jumped back to that question, but going forward, what I offer is one on one leadership coaching. And my key target group that I feel I'm, you know, could really benefit is that kind of middle management, emerging leaders, a lot of people get especially community services or in the public space, get thrown into roles because they've just been there for a certain amount of time or they might be great at their actual on the ground job but never been given any leadership skills. Yeah, yeah. And unfortunately that can come out in negative ways when they're leading people and it's not fair to them and it's not fair to the team they're leading.

So.

Yeah, so that one on one coaching to people who feel that they might really benefit from that. And also as you sort of mentioned before, consulting to small organizations or those organizations that really employ a lot of younger people. I think I've got a, a real depth of experience in that intergenerational space. You know, working with young people for a long time, working with teams who've had, you know, projects and funding and you know, working with young people. I kind of can see it from both sides. So being in that kind of space, which is not quite executive, well, I.

Think there's a real need, it's a really important thing. And I think a lot of people who I talk to have this expectation, you might have been one of them, which is that this is only about coaching senior leaders and that, you know, if you want to work in for purpose organizations or you want to work in community or small business or people who aren't, you know, in the exec, that maybe this is not for them. And you know what, I want to be really clear that certainly the accelerator is for everyone, but also that coaching is not a, I guess, a tool that is limited. It is, as we know.

Right.

Is a really flexible tool that can be used to benefit everyone. And so I mean, I know you work with businesses as well, but have you, you know, what's your take on what's different about working in community organizations versus corporations? Like, is it different?

Well, I can't work, I can't speak for corporations because I haven't worked in corporations. But I have a lot of, you know, very close friends who do. And I think the first thing is the funding, the money, you know, we're very used to doing, you know, as the same goes, you know, running on the smell of an oily rag. Like you really have very limited funds. You don't know when the next funding, you know, pocket is coming from or if it's going to come. And so you've got people really working hard and really passionate about what they do with no sort of sense of longevity necessarily or often there's no career growth because, you know, it's short term, you know, might be two or three year funded program. Yeah, you know, I worked in a very, as I said, the organization I worked in. One of the reasons I actually chose to leave was because I had these amazing people under me and I'd sort of done. I felt like as much as I could and it was time for them to take up sort of those management positions. But yeah, I think that's the money probably is the hardest part and often this, the staff are very passionate but don't necessarily get the professional development or the training that some do and some. Every organization is different but you know, when you've got only a certain amount of funds to be spread around, it's the thing that gets cut can often be professional development or you know, those opportunities that I'm assuming in the private sector would get a lot more of.

Yeah, and it's interesting. So we, as you know, we've got quite a few members in the accelerator who do have a focus on sort of social impact or education or community or the not for profit sector. And it, you've definitely got to be a little more scrappy with your pricing and your willingness to work in different ways or to, you know, the way you invoice might need to be different or you know, what you charge might actually be different in some cases. Have you, have you found that like, have you had to think a bit more creatively with the clients you're targeting?

Yeah, definitely. And I think that's been the benefit of the accelerator is just actually though getting that confidence to hold your own in what you hold, your value. Because when you've worked for a long time in organizations where you do do things really if you can cheaply or yeah, for nothing, you. It's hard to kind of make that jump. Yeah.

Yes, yes. Very tempting for you to underprice yourself for the market.

Yep. I think we've had some very funny conversations. But I think I've grow, you know, I've grown my confidence of what that looks like. But yeah, you do have to be a little bit more creative and you have to be, you know, what you're offer. But I'm also learning and I think in time organ, I hope in time organizations, even if they are not for profit, will see the benefit because the cost of losing staff and staff turnover and, and not having staff even last the term of a project which might be three years, like so much work goes into getting it going and to lose staff or have an unhappy workplace, you know, you, you're almost wasting money if you don't get that right, if you don't get that key component of a good quality team right, then the funding you're getting is, is likely to be wasted. So, you know, to deliver that fabulous product on the ground, whether it's, you know, as you said, private enterprise and you delivering to a client or you're delivering to the community, it still should be absolute quality.

Absolutely. I, I love that. And I think that's a really a reason why people would want to work with you as well, because you understand what quality looks like, you understand what the deliverable is. And we've talked a bit about how, you know, as coaches, being an expert isn't necessary in terms of the delivery of the coaching, but it's very helpful in terms of scoping and sales and the credibility you can build. And you know, for the people you work with, I think that's immense. So how do work with your clients? Like what sort of work do you do?

So the one on one process is exactly, I guess it is making that little bit of shift into coaching away from management leadership and having all the answers, but it's really about helping them unpack and what it is, what the issues are that they might be having. And often it's not necessarily the delivery or the way they do their role. It could be, you know, team issues, management issues, or within the organization, or frustrations within the organization. So it's just, it's been able to reflect and unpack what that might look like. It's also helping them open up to new ideas of how to do their role. You know, with my experience, and not just my experience, I think it's just like anybody having an outsider who can look in, who doesn't have, you know, skin in their game, so to speak, is really critical because we can get very siloed, especially in any industry, Any industry, you can get very siloed and only know what's in your space. And so having that opportunity to sort of workshop with somebody else around, what, what something else might look like, I think is, is one of the critical things that I can bring to the table. Yeah, yeah.

So you do coaching and you also facilitate workshops. Yeah, and consult. So you've got quite a broad range. Is there, you know, a type of work that you're most passionate about or do you enjoy the variety?

I think definitely one on one is what, you know, when I realized that is harder because in the sense of, you know, it's time limited and I'm looking forward, you know, I've got My brain doesn't stop thinking and I'm learning all the time from everyone, like now that I've actually made that jump into working on my, you know, working for myself. Yeah, I've got lots of little ideas happening of what that might look like down the track. But yeah, I think definitely working with one on one because it's just so important if you can build up someone to be a good leader and a good manager. And when I say leader as well, it could be. You don't have to be in a management position to be a great leader. You know, you really. There's, especially in the community space, there are a lot of people who've been given individual projects to manage and they have huge stakeholder engagement and huge involvement with all sorts of members of the community or young people and they're managing a budget, but they don't have a management position. So. Yeah, so I think that's where I really work.

That's your sweet spot and where you're really creating impact. And so if I think about growing your business and I've seen, you know, I've seen, you know, you're an incredibly productive and efficient person. Right. You have a huge capacity for work. But, you know, growing a business is like a big learning curve. Right. My question for you though, is not what have you necessarily learned about business, but what have you learned about yourself through the process of starting a business?

Firstly, I want to take that statement you said about huge work, productive. Yeah. I'm just going to play it to my husband over and over. I love that.

We've got it on, we've got it recorded. We can definitely loop that.

Yeah, yeah. Look, I've learned so much, honestly, I think, look, it's been incredible what I've learned. I don't know if you remember the first conversation I had with you on my discovery call. I think I started. I think I got a bit teary because it's a big jump to go out on your own. When you've worked for organizations your whole life and you've been very passionate about those organizations and you've always spoke for somebody else, just suddenly go out on your own. Even though I knew I knew what I was doing, it's like, how do I sell that to people? How do I promote myself? That was so foreign for me. So I guess I've learned a lot about myself and how to have actually belief in what I can do. But I've also learned how to build a website. I've learned, you know, it's been a Huge learning curve. But at the same time, the best thing I ever did was actually, you know, sign up to the accelerator because it's just put such great boundaries and parameters around what I need to do and how I do it. So I unfortunately am someone who can go down a rabbit hole. I'll listen to podcasts 247 and social media and you get bombarded by so much information that. Yeah. You know, trying to work out what's right and it's not even saying what's right and wrong. It's what's right for me.

Yes.

Yeah.

And even more than that, it's like what's right for you right now. You know, because. Because sometimes I think you've tapped into something really important is we can see so many opportunities, so many pathways, so much information, and none of it is bad. It's just going to be distracting and we need to be really focused on what is our next natural step that we need in order to take us towards our goals. So I think that's.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's how I came across. Sorry, you haven't even asked me this question, but I'm going to. That's how I came across. You was. I was first I reached out and met with someone who sort of did something similar on their own, like an acquaintance. And she gave me some great information and then I just listened to some things she suggested. And then I think I heard you on a podcast and I'm like, yeah, I really like how you sound. And then I think I followed you on social media, but I had some. A few people I was following and listening, but I had to really think, who do I feel sort of speaks how I would.

Yeah.

Speaks the language I resonate with. And I found that you did. So I think it's finding exactly what you need for when you need it. And it was the best thing I did because sort of blocked out all the noise for a little bit and. Yeah, yeah. A lot of clarity around what I needed at that time and helped me step through it rather than make lots of mistakes and then.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so what have the biggest challenges been? Right. Because it's not, you know, no matter how much structure we have, there's going to be things that are harder and things that are easier on this journey. Like, what have you found to be the biggest challenges?

Look, there's been plenty of challenges. The biggest challenge is, is probably my own self belief or imposter syndrome and knowing how you put yourself out there. Or sell, as I said, sell yourself not sell your organization. And I still. I get caught up every now and then, I'll go into a conversation or I'll go to something, a stakeholder event, and in my head I'm like, oh, I know. Who would be great at that, or what organization could help with that. So probably myself has been my biggest challenge. But I think, where to start? How to start? Yeah. What to start, how much to spend, Pretty much everything. At first, it's just so overwhelming. It's.

There's so many details, aren't there? Like, you actually don't. It's probably better that we don't know that before we start, because if we knew how many details there were, I wonder if we'd ever even dive in. But, yeah, you're totally right. But I guess the flip side of that is, what are you most proud of, what you've created in your business?

I think I'm just incredibly proud that I've stuck at it. I've been very lucky to have, you know, the support of my husband, and I'm very fortunate to be at a time where I could actually do it. But I think I'm just really proud of the confidence that I've been able to build in myself and just, I guess working with, you know, when you work with somebody and, you know that you've made a huge difference and that, you know, they've uncovered some of the skills or talents that I, you know, they've always had but didn't know themselves and, you know, that they're on a trajectory. I think, you know, through my whole career, I've never been prouder of someone who actually goes off to do onto bigger and better things. So. But that's. Yeah, that's probably what I'm most proud of, and that I'm proud that I now have an opportunity to kind of hopefully build that. I mean, the more I sort of. The more time goes along, I realize how important coaching. Coaching is for everyone. So, you know, I hope we get to a time where, you know, all organizations or business really recognize the importance of that external support for their staff so.

Well, absolutely. And I think people like you are part of creating that shift, right? Part of creating that cultural shift, particularly given that you're talking to, you know, community organizations, you're talking about young people, you're talking about, you know, anyone being a leader in their role. I think when we're talking about coaching in those contexts, then, you know, by definition, you are creating the environment where coaching is more of a norm and that it is available for Everyone. So I think, you know, I think that's amazing and like, if I'm super selfish, like some of the reason why I do what I do is because if I can, you know, help more people like you create the, the positive impact that you're going to have, like, I think we are creating this ripple effect on the world and so I think that's really cool for all of us involved in it.

Yeah, I think so. Because as you said, you know, we all know when you start looking for something on social media or you do a search, you just get bombarded. So I was originally just bombarded with so many people telling me, you know, all the sort of salesy things of, you know, you can get your coaching business to whatever, $zillion in three weeks or whatever.

I'll take it. Give me a zillion dollars in a week.

Yeah, well, I'm like, I feel a bit and I'm like, oh, how do I tell people what I do? Now I sound like such a, you know, you know, what you imagine what I felt like. But then the more I think about it and as I said, the more you talking to family or friends and hearing the challenges that people are having at work and especially intergenerational issues, you just think something's got to change. You know, we can, we can really go on about workplace well being and we can really go on about all of this and it's all so important. And I, you know, you don't worry, I'll write about it myself. But in the end having that person that somebody can work with to really, you know, have that outlet, to have those conversations, to have those discussions to you know, work out themselves how they can move forward and develop and, and you know, improve or you know, whatever it is that they're looking to do for themselves is just so important, you.

Know, so it's so important. So I want to wrap up with like a few, a few rapid fire questions if that's okay. Because I know that you are the perfect person to ask these questions of. Do you have a favorite business book that you recommend?

Oh, I've got so many of the moment. But I actually knew, I was just, I took one and I think I put a LinkedIn post. Now it's something funny like, oh, I'll have to have a quick look. What's it called? It's something really funny like Dumb Stupid people. It sounds terrible. It's got a terrible name.

Don't worry, we'll put the proper one in the show. Notes everyone.

Yeah, please Please, I should know it. I feel terrible because I've actually just been reading it, but my sister picked it up from. For me at the airport in London. She's. She's owned her own business for years, so I fully admired her entrepreneurial skills. And she's. But, yeah, she picked it up for me, and I hadn't had a chance to read it, so I was just recently on holidays, and it was fantastic. It was so. It kind of spoke my language, I guess. I think, like, anything you can read lots of things and. But it really spoke my language. Michelle Byrie. I've done her supervision training, and she has a great. Some great books. There's. Oh, look, so many. I'm reading Atomic Habits. I've got so many books and podcasts going.

All right, well, my next question is favorite podcasts.

Yours, Ellie.

Thank you. We didn't. There was no financial incentive past hands.

No, actually, you know, in all honesty, I think I love Diary of a CEO. I love the people he has on. And I've got a couple of faves. I'm a bit of a Mamma Mia. Fave just for some fun. And they've actually got a new one called the Biz, which is aimed at younger people, which is quite interesting for me to listen to and see what the questions of young people are asking. But, yeah, I just love. I have variety. I just jump around. So perfect. I think the important thing is listen to lots of things. It doesn't have to be directly at what you're doing, but you'll pick up something. Great.

Great tip. And this one is a question without any notice or preparation, if you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be?

Oh. Oh, gosh, that is a hard question. I know. Well, this is really daggy, but my favorite person in the world has always been Oprah, and I know I'm really showing my age. No, Oprah is eternal. I grew up watching Oprah, and I got to see her years ago in 93 in Chicago. Yeah. When she was still. And, yeah, I wouldn't be able to coach her, I'm sure, because she's probably. But it'd be great to coach the hit, get the reflective questions back and have her actually. Yeah.

Be coached by. I love that. That's such a good reframe of that question.

Okay. You can always learn off everyone. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I could certainly learn from Oprah on so many levels. And then the last question is, you know, if you were speaking to someone who was starting their executive coaching business, like, what tips Would you give them.

Oh, look, find. If it's not you find some. Something or somebody who can help you, guide you. Because I don't know where I would be. I probably would have given up by now, to be totally honest, because it can be really overwhelming. And it's like a. It's a bit like if anyone looks at my Instagram, you'll see lots of oceans. I live near the ocean and I love that analogy of the waves. Like, you just keep getting sort of knocked down and you get up and you go, oh, you know, this is good. And then another wave comes and you question, I could just go back and you know, I left a good job with good money. I could go back and find another good job with good money. Like, why am I doing this? But yeah, so I would say find a good coach or guide to. My analogy of you is a bit. You're a bit like a coloring in book. You know, the coloring books you get for like 2 and 3 year olds, but really clear dark lines, you know, black lines around them. And so you can use crayons, you can use paints. I can read, listen to my podcasts, I can read my books. I can follow someone on Instagram and take bits and pieces. But I've got that sort of guideline to keep me coloring in within the lines.

That's my favorite metaphor. I'm gonna put it on my sales page.

Oh, thank you. And the people like in the coaching sessions, like, I think it's just amazing to learn off other people, but it gives me confidence when I can offer up something. Okay, wow, this person's been doing this for a long time. But I've got a suggestion. So.

Yeah.

Yes, incredibly helpful. Yeah.

And actually I don't talk about that very often, but often the feedback at the end of our group coaching calls is not just, oh, I got my question answered. It was like, oh, I learned so much from all these other questions. And I got to, you know, I felt like I was helping as well. So. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. So I agree.

Look, Katrina, I want to say a huge thank you for coming and sharing your story. I think you're amazing. I think your clients are so lucky to have you. How can people get in touch with you if they want to look you up?

Okay, so I have a website that. And I'm open to feedback. I would love feedback on that. But I have a. My brand name or my. My business name is Valued Asset Coaching. So I have a website I. On social media as that as well. Yeah.

And by email, I'LL include those all in the show notes as well as. As the book that you recommend. Because I'm looking forward to hearing what that title actually is.

Oh, yeah, no, don't worry.

I'll look it up.

You should have warned me. I could have had it ready.

But no, I just.

It was. It's a really easy read and I found it lots of fun and I'm gonna read it. It makes. Yeah, I'm gonna read it.

Sure. But yeah. Thank you so much, Katrina. Really appreciate having you.

Thank you. And sorry for the bad video.

No, no. And just for, for all of the, the listeners, if you think that the accelerator sounds like something you might be interested in and you'd like to get get in before our prices go up at the end of the month, you can book in your accelerator fit. Call with me@elliscarf.com bookacall or I am including that link in the show notes and we can really talk about how the accelerator can help you to build your dream coaching business. And okay, thank you very much and I will see you all soon.