Paula Shannon from Public Education to a Purposeful Coaching Business - Accelerator Member Profile

Okay. Welcome to the business of executive coaching podcast. I'm so happy and pleased to be here with Paula Shannon this morning. Paula is a coach and consultant, facilitator and she has a very interesting backstory. Paula, welcome.

Ellie. It's so great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity and look forward to diving in.

Me too. So how I love to start. Anything where I have a guest on this show is to ask a little bit about your backstory. So everyone who becomes a coach has a backstory. What's yours, Paula?

Yeah. So I spent almost 30 years in public education here in the United States. Never intended to be an educator. I in undergrad had decided I was going to go to law school and I was going to become involved in civil rights. Spent a bunch of time in South America studying democracy. And I came back, finished my senior year and didn't want to immediately go to law school and said, hey, I'm going to do something that matters and get paid for it. And so just newly launched program called Teach for America. And so I was accepted into Teach for America. That's how I got started teaching in over about 30 years, worked from being a classroom teacher. So I have a, an innate passion for seeing potential in little and big people, in helping, helping folks develop it. But yeah, I worked my way up into administration and spent about 17 years in senior and executive leadership in urban school systems. And what urban school systems means here in the United States is bigger districts, right? Anywhere from 40 to 90 schools or campuses, you know, 150 school leaders, and then a pretty big central office that helps coordinate all of the services and activities across all of those many campuses. So I spent a lot of time working in big complex organizations over that, that period of time.

Sounds really low pressure, low stakes.

No pressure at all? No. 80 hour weeks?

No. Well, okay, so, so that then I guess when did coaching come into the picture? Was it something you'd always known about or was it something you just.

Yeah, I like I said I loved like teaching and found that a lot of what I did as a teacher was coaching little people. I actually became a literacy coach and coach teachers on being better teachers when I was in education and then as a, a systems leader administrator, I found that, you know, I wasn't filled with energy going to board meetings or having to speak to the media. I was always filled with energy when I was teaching and most specifically when I was coaching. So in, you know, team development kind of settings where I was moving a team along, inherited some dysfunctional teams over time, brought them along or just one on one, growing my direct reports, those were the best days. And I would actually stack, you know, all of my direct report one on ones on different days so that those days could be filled with what brought me lots of joy and satisfaction. So I started realizing, oh, through the pandemic and shortly thereafter that I needed to do something different. I was getting very tired at what I was doing, that I loved coaching and development and that I wanted to take the leap and start my own thing. And so in July of 2024, that's what I did.

So I imagine coming from like the public education system, it's pretty countercultural to say I want to go out and do my own thing and I want it to be something that is profit bringing and purpose giving. Right. How did you, I guess how did you think about it, but also how did you communicate that shift? Like, how did it land?

I think I've been on a journey in recognizing that what I do has value and that all of that experience I accrued has value and that I am worth being, being paid for all of that deep value. So I think it was a lot of mental work that I had to do myself. Right. I had to move beyond the am I charging too much? You've helped me think through some of that, but am I charging too much? You know, maybe I should give a bigger discount. And in really realizing that what I do matters and that, I mean, I've had the benefit of engaging a lot with philanthropy and having friends in corporate America. And I think being on the system side in public education helps too, because you see it's sitting at tables with business leaders. You see the complexity that you're carrying and what you're paid compared to what's happening in a very different world. So I just reached a point where I said enough is enough. Like I deserve to do good in this world and also be appropriately compensated for it. And so I'm not going to feel bad about that.

No, I've heard it as I'm here to do good and do well.

Right.

I'm going to, I'm going to do both of those. And I think that's a big part of my message as well, which is we get to have this impact and it's a very, you know, a positive impact of ripple effect. And we'll talk a little bit about that more. And we get to be, you know, profitable and abundant and really do things that flourish us. And I think the third piece of that triad is and we get to create the lifestyle that we Want. Because often, and it sounds like you were in this boat, we move away from these roles because they were demanding so much of our time and they. They don't allow for flexibility.

Yeah. I think two things that I would add just from the journey I've been on is first off, that last part of creating the life that you want. I mean, I distinctly remember, oh, about five years ago, I was driving back from a ski trip to New Mexico and I, you know, was thinking, I want a different life. Like, I want to be able to work from anywhere. I want to be able to. To, like, be in nature. I want to be able to not be stressed out all the time. I should just go start my own thing because what I'm in doesn't allow for that. So that, that really stuck with me. You know, I came back to that a lot. And then the second thing is I was clinically burned out when I left.

Yeah.

My last role. And I understand what that feels like. I understand how numb you become emotionally, how it just diminishes your. Your spark. But also I think people don't realize what it actually does to you physically.

Yes.

And so that's a big thing I push my clients on is how are you taking care of yourself? Because, you know, these systems will still be there. All of the, like, craziness of them is still going to be there. But there's only one you. Right. And if you don't take care of your physical, mental, and emotional self, nobody else is going to. So I learned that the hard way. And the last point is I've spent a lot of time thinking about women and wealth and the gaps and the power of women with wealth. And so, you know, I want to. I want to do good and do well because I believe women with wealth actually accelerate doing good in the world.

I totally agree. And I started working with Rachel Rogers. If you've come across her work, I.

Think, yeah, I love Rachel Rogers.

Yeah. Who talks a lot about the importance of women building wealth because of that, that disproportionate, you know, contribution to things that make a difference in the world. And I think that message is beautiful. So I'm going off topic a little bit, but give us the contrast. What does life look like now for you, Paula? Like, is that. Has that shifted?

Absolutely. So what does life look like now? Equal amounts of self care, time with family and investing in what I love to do every day. And, you know, I think being at the beginning of this journey, and we'll probably get into this a little bit More later. Like every day is equal parts exhilarating. I get to think again. Right. I'm creating. I love to write and to think. I get to pour into my clients and I love that. And I still have time for myself. I sleep better. I'm like in better shape.

Yeah.

And like, I'm able to tend to and pour into my relationships in ways that I wasn't doing when I was, let me say, I wasn't doing consistently. I went through ebbs and flows, particularly probably in the last seven years of being in a. In a really stressful leadership role. And I started to figure out what you have to be okay with in yourself when you set boundaries, when you're in a really big role.

Yeah.

So, yeah, life now is very different. And every day is exhilarating and in equal parts terrifying because I'm the beginning of the business journey and it's not easy.

Yeah.

I love that.

And the theme I think of what I always want to share is we are. It is going to be completely different, but it doesn't mean it's always going to be perfect. And there are parts of this that are ups and downs and the roller coaster is real. We try and do what we can to sort of blunt the edges and build some consistency, but we do have that. But it's worth it because of those bigger picture gains that we're making in terms of life and impact and flexibility.

Absolutely. And I think for me, I've been on a journey, still on it, but in the moments where cash flow is not what. What you would want it to be, it's easy to fall back into that kind of scarcity place. Yeah. I'm learning how to stay focused on the abundance and how to see wealth through different lenses. Right. Wealth just isn't how much money's in the bank account, but it's how strong your relationships are, how sound your spiritual life is, how you're taking care of yourself. Right. And so very different place than I was 10 years ago.

Yeah. I love that. I think. I think your story is really inspiring, Paula. And what I'd love to learn a bit more about is how have you translated that experience into the work that you do now? So who do you work with? What do you do and, you know, like, what has led you down that particular avenue? Yeah.

So I'll like, kind of say my little pitch and then give a little story behind it, please.

Because I'll ask you about four questions at once. Sorry.

I help mission driven leaders who are carrying a lot. Right. The pressure, the Visibility, the complexity, lead with clarity, confidence and purpose. And I do that through strategic coaching and deep partnership. I help leaders move from being reactive to being intentional, from over functioning. That was a big part problem I had to aligned leadership. So mission driven leaders can really sustain the impact that they want to have without losing themselves in the process. This has become so important to me. I started realizing that I could leave a greater legacy through the people that I was cultivating, if I could cultivate, you know, import into more people.

Yeah.

And so it's one thing when you look at what you can do in an organization, it's another when you can bundle all of that experience and help folks avoid some of the mistakes you made or at least give them good bridges and pathways through, through those challenges and, and help give them some detour signs before they're too far down a path that's not going to work out very well. And yeah, I just started realizing that the, there's a lot of challenge to solve in this world and I want to help make this world a more equitable, just and inclusive place. And the only way to do that is through expanding leadership, you know, so we need more people who like are channeling their passion into helping to solve those problems. And I think leadership is harder than it's ever been that there's not a, a season anymore that is not uncertain or full of pressure or you're dealing with ambiguity. You know, that's the best way to say this. There is tremendous power in AI, in, in opportunity, in artificial intelligence. But the rate at which change is happening is beyond anything we've, we've ever faced before. And it's daunting. Right. Because as a leader in these situations, you're having to grapple with the tensions between caring for people and getting results.

Yeah.

And you're having to grapple with being like responsive to situations, but also being inclusive.

Yeah.

And there are real values, tensions at play. So I decided when I was moving out to launch my own thing that I was tired, I needed a break and I wanted to put the armor down that I had been wearing in the arena every day. So goes back to that Teddy Roosevelt poem. Like, I've done the work, I've been in the arena, I know what it feels like and I knew how tired I was. I know that there are a lot of other leaders who I've walked alongside and who were rising in leadership that have the energy that, that I didn't have anymore. And so I now have a box seat at the arena and I'm Gonna be a big champion and cheerleader for the leaders that are still engaged in the fight.

Yeah.

On the arena for every day.

Yeah. And, you know, I think also I want to acknowledge that for, for mission driven leaders in the US at the moment, there's so much complexity that they're navigating above and beyond doing their work.

Right.

Which is the, the mandate to do the work that they have. The, you know, regulatory changes. I think. So I think, you know, those people and you being there to support them is even more important than ever.

Yeah. People need a safe space. There's a lot to process and, and you know, I work with, with some of my clients, I mean, they just need to take a beat, take a breath.

Yeah.

And have a space where they can say things that they can't say to their team, they can't say to their peers or even, you know, to their boss. And they seem to be able to say it and there and not be judged for it, not have consequences to it. Yeah. So I like to. I feel deeply compelled to provide that space because I understand what it feels like.

Yeah. And in terms of the, the way you work with your clients. So obviously there's, there's one on one coaching, but I know you do a lot more than that. Can you tell us a little bit about the work you do?

Yeah. So I do do one on one, and I've tried to tailor that to where people are in their journey, given that I've been on that journey. Right. So there's, you know, you know, I kind of customize to people who are new leadership, to those who are moving into being a leader of leaders for the first time, to those who are in the C suite, and they're kind of looking at what's my legacy going to be. I'm also doing a lot around retreats. Like, I love to do customized retreats for senior and executive teams that are a blend of how are we working as a team, what are our dynamics, how do we better understand each other, how are we tending to the emotional culture of our team and our organization and balancing that with strategy? I think all of my. One of the gifts, I have both, which is. Was both one of my leadership strengths when I was in roles that I carry into my coaching. Is one of my clients described it as, I'm able to help people navigate between being on the balcony and the dance floor.

I love it.

I know how to make that journey back and forth and to hold both so I can help people think strategically while also holding all of the How I show up work.

Yeah.

So whether it's with team development, do a lot of just team development. I call it elevate together these leadership retreats or individual coaching. I'm not the kind of coach you want to work with. If you just want somebody to come in and do some facilitation around strategy and help you figure out how to improve your processes or get to the bottom line. I am the kind of coach you want to work with. If you believe that you have to invest in people and you're people centered and you understand that there's a lot of work around being that, how you show up, that who you are, just the act of being is as important as all the doing.

Yeah.

So I'll help you get under the hood and, you know, really figure out what's going on.

So I'm going to ask a really gnarly question about that because I think a lot of us as coaches is like, we deeply understand the importance of that approach, but our clients don't always understand the importance of that approach upfront. How do you get to that point with them? Is it that you're filtering out clients that don't already believe that, or is there like an educational journey during the sales process?

It's probably both. And disc candidly, I'm still figuring it out.

Yeah.

I like the content I put out in the world. Makes it pretty clear that I'm very focused on honing emotional intelligence, tending to culture. So I think I attract people that want to do that kind of work. I've also had some clients, though, that very much selected me for the depth of experience that I've had.

Yes.

In public education and in running big organizations. And so it's been meeting them where they are. And I have a very warm, demanding style. Right. Just like I did when I was a teacher. Hold high standard, high bar, let's go for excellence. But also cultivate a lot of care and compassion. So it's a bit of guiding to. We're continuing to talk about, like the same tactical or strategic issue. Like maybe we should start looking at why you keep repeating the pattern. So I, I guide through questions and a little bit of maybe we should try this and see what happens if we approach this differently. And that often hooks folks. It's. I'm patient. I take time to get there.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I'm really, I'm really hearing that, that it's a process on both sides. Right. To get to the point. Point where. Yeah. Let's partner together on some significant pieces of work, not just, you know, come in for an hour and be done. And that there is something about calling your people in with the content you're putting out in the world.

Yeah.

Alongside of course your outreach and all of those sorts of processes. So I, yeah, I really, I really love that.

I think something else, Ellie, that you helped me really understand and that you talk about in the program is assessment. The assessments that you're trained in are super important. I find that at the beginning of, of like a one on one engagement, I spend a solid six weeks doing some different assessments. I use the Enneagram, I also use a profile xt. I like the Genos emotional intelligence as well. So depending upon like who I'm working with, we'll do one to two of those. And I use data to help an individual or a team start to see like yes. Strengths but also where's some things that we might want to dig into a little bit more to understand how they are impacting.

Yeah.

And I find like that's often a road into deeper conversations.

Yeah.

So that's another way that I. Yeah, I agree.

And I've always found, found the use of assessment tools interesting and I found it very helpful not just for the work we do, but also for the sales process because particularly when you're talking to people who are maybe a little, you know, for me, for example, it's people who are deeply professional. So you know, the accountants, the lawyers, the engineers and they like this idea of data, data driving this self awareness process. So it's almost like a little comforting, this solid something they can hold on to in a process that can feel very ephemeral or like it can't be pinned down because we can't say what we're going to do.

Right.

We, you know, we have goals and we know but the process will be emergent. And so for them to have something to anchor on is super helpful.

One of the things that I'm getting better at in the sales conversation is really talking about return on investment. Yeah. You know, there's a really big return on this, you know, this what oftentimes feel particular feels, particularly if an organization strapped for cash or they're funding it individually and individuals doing it out of pocket is I want you to have a big return. And I've worked with coaches who didn't document as well or hold me accountable. So I'm pretty meticulous about helping folks. I call it their whole leader dashboard, helping them build their compass and understand their purpose, their values, kind of their priorities in the role that they're in right now and how they're caring for themselves. And then we springboard from those assessments into one or two growth goals. And, you know, it's attached to why they came to me in the first place. But they get refined, and in that, I help them build a measurement plan. So how are we going to know that things are getting better? How are you going to know that you're making progress? And I mean, these things aren't rocket science. Right. But that makes a huge difference when people can begin to tangibly see that I'm growing and the way people is experiencing, are experiencing me is different. The way I show up is different. And I have a coach who's helping me step back and think about and reflect upon what's changing and why that return on investment is so incredibly important.

I love that. And it's usually one of the conversations that we struggle with right during that sales process is, well, what's the ROI on this process? Because we can't say precisely what it would be, but if we can talk to how we're going to measure it, how we're going to set the targets, then. And you are doing that in a deliberate process. I think that's amazing. And it's something we could all. And I include myself in this think about in new and better ways. So. Yeah. Thank you.

Not easy.

No, not easy. Not easy. And especially, like, obviously not you, Paula, but I dare say some of us as coaches are not necessarily metrics driven naturally. And so for us to implement those processes does sometimes require us to step out of our comfort zone or our natural preferences. So I think, yeah, a very good process to go down. So I want to ask you a little bit about, you know, actually stepping out, running a business. Since you've been running your own business. What have you learned about yourself through the process?

Yeah, I've learned a lot about myself. And I think one of the biggest things that I have learned is consistency matters. I'm like a routine and structure person that helps me. I can let perfect be the enemy of good enough. And so I'm constantly overcoming that. I think that the systems and structures that you teach in, in the accelerator are super helpful for people like me who tend to be perfectionistic because I've learned that it's not about. So quality is important. Yes. But it's not about being perfect. It's not about having it all figured out. It's about understanding which things matter most and how to stay focused on those and be consistent with them. Yeah. And consistent doesn't have to be this gigantic boulder every day.

No.

You know, consistent can be the power hour you teach. Yeah, right. It's just do like these little things every day, and it's amazing how they add up. I mean, I think the other thing that I've learned about myself is I. I can fall very easily for, you know, wanting to take shortcuts for. Let's hurry up and, you know, like, I want to get to this thing, so maybe I should invest in this, you know, course or go read this book, get this training. And. And so I recognize that more so now that I can be pulled into that. Yeah. And this, you know, just this idea of, like, discipline and consistency is so important to building a business. I think the other thing I've learned about myself is I have more people cheering for me than I realized I did. If I just maximize my network.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, in terms of big lessons to offer folks who are. Who are just getting started is if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Like, don't fall for all of these. Here's how you get to 50k months. It's all like, since. And there might be some things, like I've made the mistake of, you know, you know, doing these things that you. You learn some stuff. But if people are talking about these outlandish numbers that you're going to get and you're just starting out, you have, like, nothing in place to do this stuff. So don't fall for it. I think you, like, you've done a great job of breaking down what the really important first steps in business are to build the. To focus on the things that matter most. So put. Put first things first.

Yeah.

Build systems around them that are simple and easy to implement because I can overly complicate things. So it's like, keep it simple so you can do it. Yeah. And yeah, it's that consistency. It's a little things every day that add up to momentum. And you probably know more people than you think you do. So organize your network and, like, start there because relationships are gonna get you the business.

Yes, yes, absolutely. You know? Yeah. Speaking. Speaking my language. I love that. Thank you. And what are you most proud of since. Since you started your business? Like, what are the big. The big wins, the big successes? What do you consider the, you know, the biggest? I don't know. Achievements is not quite the right word.

So I was thinking about this. I'm very hard on myself, and so some of my, like, anchor clients that I have right now, I Mean, I. I wouldn't still be here if it wasn't for them. So, I mean, I'm very grateful for them, but I don't. I haven't counted them as wins. And I think in our work together, you've helped me realize. No, those are huge achievements. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So I would say, yeah, I'm proud of that. I'm proud that, like, they have extended contracts, they've grown the work with me, so I'm proud of that. It's very affirming. I think the other thing that I'm proud of is, you know, I'm. Every week, some weeks are better than other, but others in terms of quantity. But every week I am reaching out to people in my network and I'm also pushing myself out to meet new people.

Yeah.

And what I'm finding is, you know, from at least three to four coffees or conversations each week, people genuinely want to help.

Yeah.

And seeds are being planted and the conversations are starting to grow. So that momentum is really exciting and empowering. And I think, like, that's another. Well, yeah, so I'm really proud of that momentum that's growing. And I'm also just really proud of overcoming some of the fear of putting myself out there and, and just the, like, amount of content that, that I've been putting out into to the world, just like, be authentically me and tell my story. I'm proud of that. Because it's. It's not easy.

No. And I would say, Paula, that you're a bit of a poster child for doing that, which is like, I know that it doesn't come easy to you and you've. You're doing it anyway. Right. That there is, you know, that there's this pro. I can see that process where. Yeah. You just do it through the discomfort. And it's amazing. Right. The content that you put out there is helpful. It's speaking to the right people.

What.

What advice would you offer people who are grappling with that same thing. Like, they feel uncomfortable. There's a fear of maybe the judgment that people will make based on what you say if you say something that they don't agree with or how. Yeah. What advice would you offer?

Yeah. So I, like, it's in my experience, just start writing, start pushing out, particularly on LinkedIn. Like, I'm not on Facebook or Instagram or the others. It's not my, My cup of tea. But like on Instagram or on LinkedIn, pardon me. People are pretty kind and generous. So folks that are going to Be commenting anyway are people that you're already connected to. And I think LinkedIn's a pretty safe place. I mean, yeah, only 4% of people who are on LinkedIn are producing content anyway. And you can, you can involve your network and the people you're already connected to in ways that, that are helpful. And it's like, yeah, just get out there and start putting it out there, and you'll start realizing that it's not as scary as you thought and people actually are kind and supportive, and that just creates kind of a virtuous flywheel. Right. Like, yeah. The more that you start putting the content out there, the more you start to figure out, like, how the content's going to work for you, then you start paying attention to the metrics and you start figuring those out. And the only way that. To go through all those gates is to just start.

Yeah.

Putting content out there. And the other thing I would say is, you know, some people are like, don't do this. But I spend a lot of time with Chat GPT, who I've named Sage, and I have trained Sage to understand what's important to me and what I believe in and what my tone and style is. And that's helped me a lot, too, just in terms of having a thought partner.

Yes.

That I can, like, get copy down and refine it to be what I want it to be and kind of vet it. Like, you know, what might people, like, take offense to or what might I not be thinking about? And that's helped me as well.

Oh, thanks.

Yes. Just get out there and do it and it's. You'll find it's not as scary as you once thought it was. Yeah.

And I, I do love that tip about using AI Smart in a smart way. Right. Which is not writing your content for you. It's not replacing your voice, but it is as a thought partner, as an editor, as a, you know, idea bouncer, all of those things. And, and, you know, like, if we can take 70% of the, the effort out of it so that we can apply our brilliance to the bits that matter, then we should.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, because that's the thing. I know. You know, I, I like different, just colleagues who are in coaching and just where I, you know, kind of the institution I came from, I want to do the work. But running your business, man, it's not just coaching.

No.

It's all the business development that you have to do, as well as just tending to the bottom line and the, the financials, like, you have to make Time for all that stuff. So when you can, you know, automate some of it, which I'm learning how to do, when you can leverage AI to help you think through things. Yeah, it just maximizes your time, which goes back to where we started. It's like the kind of life that you want to live.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No, I love that. So then, you know, what are your tips for people starting their coaching businesses? Do you have any advice? I think you've given quite a lot of advice throughout this conversation, but anything else you'd add.

Yeah. Sign up for your accelerator.

Thank you.

So that you can learn how to build systems early. Yeah, I think, like, you know, the courses that you give to really walk through, how to think about content and how to think about lead gen generation and just how to manage your time, Man, I wish I had known that, like when I was first moving into this, it would have saved me a lot of trials and tribulations. So it's like, build those systems early because when you start getting the systems in place, it just, everything kind of clicks and you spend your time more efficiently. The other thing is, like, don't work in isolation. Being a part of like your accelerator, it's connected me to other people and, you know, as things are settling for me, like, I'm going to be coming like more consistently weekly. But, you know, the same groups of us tend to come to the same calls and like, I always love seeing the individuals that are in the call. It's. This can be very lonely and you can easily lose perspective.

Yeah.

Because it's hard and it doesn't happen overnight. And so having people who are going through the same thing to help encourage and learn from is super important. And like. Yeah. Also you don't have to have all the answers. The. The only way to get started is to get started. And you're never going to read enough books or take enough courses that you just going to have to like jump in and do it.

Yeah.

And you start doing it, you start figuring it out and you're going to make a lot of mistakes and you will learn from them.

Yeah.

But you really think that it's not going to happen unless you just jump in and start doing it?

Yeah.

And the progress happens through the learning. It doesn't always feel like that. But when I think about where I am now versus where I was six months ago, I'm so much further ahead. I've learned so much through the guidance that you've provided and just doing it.

The doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear. And I, I see it like, I see. And I would say, Paula, that you have a, A huge capacity for action taking as well, which is amazing and, you know, is definitely something that you are a role model for because I think, yeah, you've grappled and probably through doing your own inner work. Right. Which as coaches we have to do, but you've grappled with that. The stuff that causes us to freeze and get into procrastination, probably things like perfectionism and, you know, get into action. I think that that's, that's extraordinary. And, and it's something, you know, I do talk about with lots of people through our calls, depending on where they're at. So. Yeah, no, I, I love it. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Can I say one more thing that I would just leave as a tip is I said this earlier, but there are no shortcuts.

No.

It's easy to scroll through social media and you get bombarded with all of this stuff, you know, around how to do things faster or easier. There are no shortcuts. And I've learned this the hard way. It's, you know, leverage. Leverage authentic individuals like yourself and the real opportunity that you are offering that is built around integrity to learn. And it's learning these needle movers that the actions that matter most.

Yeah.

And how to do them consistently. And it just takes time. And you're gonna, you're gonna plant seeds and they're not going to come to fruition for months. And it could be really frustrating. You know, the other quick tip I would give too, just from a networking standpoint is think the light bulb came on for me more recently when I realized so often I was going to. I was reaching out to my warm network. I was going to have coffees with people and such from a sales perspective. And when I shifted out of that and just started like thinking, hey, I just need to reconnect with people so they know what I'm doing.

Yeah.

And I need to like, help them understand and train them so they're good referral partners.

Yes.

That was like. That was like a huge change for me. And that is actually paying dividends now. So be patient, be consistent. It's the small things that matter. And recognize that your, your clients aren't going to come for your. From your kind of warm network, so to speak, like immediately, like directly. So much as all of those folks are going to be your cheerleaders and your referral partners.

Yeah.

But they can only be referral partners if you help them understand what you do in ways that they can explain.

I love that. I love that. And that is such a. You know, we talk about lots of different outreach strategies, but I think that that one is. Is very powerful for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the, you know, the. The literal. When you tap into someone else's network, like, you know, we're opening up huge amounts of opportunity. But the other is what I heard was the way that it takes the pressure off that connection so that we can let go of some of that pressurey energy right. On us and on them to find something that is an outcome when it might just not be the right time or it might be right. And often when we're talking about things, the opportunity in front of us emerges when we're talking about something a bit more generally. So, yeah, I love that approach. Can I ask you two questions without notice to wrap up on.

Yes.

They're not too hard, I promise. If you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be?

Wow. If I could coach anyone in the world, who would it be? Oh, my goodness. I could take this in many different directions.

You can have two if it's too hard.

Well, I'm thinking about, you know, if I could coach anyone in the world. That's hard.

It is. Sorry, I chucked that in there.

Wow.

We can come back to this one. Can I ask you the second one? And then we'll come back to it while it processes. Book or podcast that you would recommend to coaches.

The. I think what I am really loving right now, that is it, you know, it's kind of like what's important to me from coaching is emotional agility. Yes, emotional agility.

I like Susan David. Yeah, I love Susan David.

So I said, that's a really great book, and Super Habits is another one. I write the author, but it's kind of fascinating. It goes back to St. Thomas Aquinas and how to think about habits in. In the context of character and virtue. Like, those two things really have my attention right now, and I think about how they fit into my coaching practice. If I could coach anyone in the world, who would it be? This is just like my initial. Like, my initial thought.

Yes.

Because it. I think it would be a challenge and I would learn a lot as a coach by doing this. I would love to coach Brene Brown. Oh, wow.

That's amazing. Oh, she would be.

I mean, one, that would say something about the level of coaching that I'm practicing at. And two, I just think, like, she would be, like, an incredible person to coach.

Yeah, it'd be that model of Coaching that is truly emergent and a partnership. Right. Which is that as coaches, we are alongside. We're not, you know, what do they say? We're the guide on the side, not the sage on the stage.

Exactly.

And it'll be. Yeah. Oh, incredible.

Yeah. I'm a big fan of Renee Brown as well. So that. That kind of be like a. Yeah. Amazing.

Yes. No, I love that. Great answer.

Great answer.

Look, Paula, thank you so much for your time today. I mean, I've learned a lot. So I'm sure that everyone listening to this is going to be, you know, really taking a lot of notes and a lot of inspiration from your story. So I'm really grateful for your time today, Ali.

Thank you. And I just, you know, can't leave without saying how incredibly grateful I am for you and all that you are doing to support those of us who are on this journey and if personally you've changed my coaching trajectory. So. Oh, deep.

Thank you. Thank you. And just to wrap up, you know, so if you are listening and you think the accelerator could be a good fit for you and you would like to get in before we close doors at the end of June and increase prices in July, please head to the show Notes and you can book a call and we can talk about whether the fit is right and whether you might also have some of these incredible learnings and journeys that Paula has shared with us. So thanks, everyone, and I will be back talking to you next week.