Transformation through coaching with Louise Zawada

Hello and welcome to the Business of Executive Coaching podcast. I am delighted to be here with Lou Zawada, incredible coach, member of the accelerator, and just all around fabulous human being. Now, Lou has a tremendous amount of experience, so when you hear a bit about her story, you're going to be deeply impressed, as was I the first time I met Lou and continue to be. But the highlights are that Lou has a very deep background in change and transformation and working with very large clients, very hands on to do that. And obviously that's coaching adjacent. And so a lot of the work that she does is also in the coaching, leadership and teaming space. And so I'm going to stop there and hand over because I probably didn't articulate any of those details particularly well. But welcome, Lou. It's so great to have you here.

Thank you. Gosh, make a girl blush, right?

With the intro, it's always my goal is like, let me make sure people know how fabulous this person is. Can we start with you sharing a little bit about your professional story? Like what brings you to this place where you're, you know, coach, facilitator, a few fingers in a few different pies in terms of the work you do, which is exciting. Tell us the story.

Yeah, sure. So I've always really loved people in terms of thinking about what makes them tick. And so I knew that I'd go into some type of a field where I got to interact with people and hear their story. And initially that was just journalism and public relations. I thought I was going to hear stories through that way and love doing that as my undergraduate degree, but realized pretty quickly that professionally I didn't think that that was going to be something that would engage me forever. So I by chance, like fell into my career. There were the beginnings of my career, lots of people. So my background is human resources and organizational development and then more, you know, in the last sort of 15, 15 plus years. Change, transformation. But I always think about them as these are the people kind of functions or disciplines and people are at the heart of whether you're doing hr, od, change, transformation. It's people led. Even though potentially sometimes we get distracted by the systems and the process stuff. But really it's just human behavior and understanding how we support people. So that's how I fell into it in terms of initially came back from traveling, needed a job, got this job working for the federal government and then, yeah, ended up starting my HR career and then it morphed and it's been quite an organic process to some degree. There's a lot of complimentary skills, I think, even from my journo days, you know, in terms of that ability to understand audience and communicate is still something that's really relevant even in the coaching space is.

I'm not sure I knew about this journalism background. I feel like this explains a lot about how clear your communication is.

Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've always. I'm quite naturally. What some people might say is they didn't realize, but I'm quite naturally introverted. But I've always recognized the value of being able to interact and engage with others and hear their story and then tell a story back. And I like writing as well. So maybe those two things, you know, he's probably what led me down that journalism PR path. And then there's that natural kind of affinity, you know, with HR and then more recently with transformation. So, yeah, I mean, there's still skill sets that I draw on every single day in terms of being able to take that step back and go, okay, well, what are. What am I trying to say here? Or what is this person trying to say, particularly in a coaching engagement? And how can we kind of pick that apart and really understand the meaning behind the intent of what it is that they're trying to get across? So it's a lot of fun. I love it. I love that.

And I can totally see that. An introvert, but very passionate about people and so also seeing the value of. And the importance of connection and showing up and all of those things. So tell us a little bit about what took you out of organization, like being an employee in an organization to starting your business, because you've been in business for quite a while now.

Yeah, I think coming up to five years, like, fully, I guess it's always hard. I don't know if I ever actually went back and pinpointed and said, like, this is the day that I'm starting my business. Like many, I think coaches in particular started as a bit of a side hustle and then, you know, went really seriously about it, sort of probably more. Four years ago was my last client side gig. I think the days and months and weeks will tend to. I was naturally spending a lot of time coaching the leaders that I was working with across. And I've worked across lots of different sectors, but I typically at that stage of my transformation career and the types of programs I was working on for organizations, they're quite large, complex, you know, financially a lot at stake. And so tended to work more with senior leaders, executives and boards and, you know, you can have an amazing plan when it comes to transformation, and you can have incredible people supporting it and skills and toolkits and all of the great things that are absolutely essential. But the number one determining factor, in my opinion, is leadership presence and the ability for someone to lead through and high degree of ambiguity, even when, and especially when sometimes they themselves are wondering what does this mean for me, regardless of whether they're CEO or someone else. So I loved that, and I loved that personal connection and that ability to really support at a really close sort of proximity to leaders and felt that they don't always get that. You know, some. Some of the leaders that I would work with did have coaches for different, you know, things of which the transformation might have been part of it, but oftentimes not. And so I think my background, my skill set naturally allowed me to play that kind of informal internal coach role in. Under the guise of the other work that I was doing. And I just got such a satisfaction out of it, and I could see the value of it. And I felt that it was almost a little bit sad at times that those options weren't available more readily. So I thought, okay, I think there's a missing piece here, and how can I sort of fill that gap? So I went and got my certifications and at that time was still working internally within an organization and started my business kind of on the side. And, you know, still to this day, a lot of my work is referral and word of mouth. And then I had an amazing leader at that time who was just so supportive and recognized the value for the organization and was just happy to do anything to kind of foster that and allowed me to work a really flexible work pattern, which allowed me to work on my business one day a week and work full that business the other four days, which, you know, was an incredible Runway to get, to be honest. And I know that not everyone has that. And then it really just reached a tipping point where I felt, you know, we kind of taken the organization as far as they could go with me, and they probably needed sort of a different set of eyes, and I was more and more focused on my business and realizing if I was going to be serious about it, I needed to go all in. And, yeah, so I went all in.

How did that feel? Like, Was it a big decision for you, or did it feel like an inevitability that it was always going to happen?

It felt like an inevitability. I think the timing ended up being slightly different. You know, there's just a lot of different as with large organizations and complex organizations, there's lots of different moving parts. My one up leader, like had, I knew was going to transition out. And so that was probably another reason, you know, that I sort of thought about, okay, well, do I accelerate this? And just ended up being one of those things that was a fit at the right time for everybody, I think. And it was almost like a blessing as well, because potentially, I know we talk about this a lot through the accelerator and just in my kind of community, it doesn't matter how many years you've got under your belt in terms of professional experience and even coaching experience, we all have that self doubt and that impostor syndrome and the oh, what if? And it's scary and being accountable for yourself and your income and, you know, if you have a high drive for success as I do and most coaches do, you really want to make a really good go of it. And you know, sometimes having some of those external factors nudge you faster is actually a real blessing. And I think that's what it ended up being. I probably would have continued on for another sort of six months and I didn't need to, you know, as it happens.

Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon I think that I see with a lot of the coaches that I meet, which is that when we're ready, whether we would identify as ready or not, there are often those little external nudges that come in various ways and it might be like a change of personnel or a reduction in flexibility or redundancy or layoff, and they just seems to come at the right time, which is really just an interesting reflection.

Yeah, I kind of have thought about this a lot as well. And I don't think I've ever been someone who's been, for want of a better word, like karmic or had universal feelings. But I definitely listened to some of this more as my career is progressed. I do think there is an element and I'm sure there's also design. You know, you put things in place and it's. It's not luck. You know, I truly believe it's not luck, but also that comfort and maybe it is experience to listen to the signals and kind of see where it would go rather than always thinking overly practically and going, you know, what's all of the pros and cons for this? Because sometimes it really just is a sense or a feeling that you need to lean into. So, yeah.

Oh, and I really think there is something to that inevitability. So I know a lot of coaches who are in that. Should I, shouldn't I? There's really like that sense that something's just tapping you on the shoulder and you can ignore it for so long, but it's going to happen eventually. And yeah, it's. You're already that person. It's just, how is that going to come into the world?

Yeah. And I have so many conversations, whether it's with my clients or people in my community where it's rare that somebody reflects back on a significant decision and goes, oh, that was the wrong one, you know, and there's always the lessons in, in the. And yeah, I feel strongly and you know, this is the work I do on myself by having a coach and making sure that I don't know everything and I'm not perfect and I'm still learning and growing as a person and as a business owner, as coach and. But it's the work I do with my coaches as well in terms of, okay, being open to that and kind of seeing where things go and not over complicating things a lot of the time, which is what we have a tendency to do, getting in our own.

Way in all sorts of special complex ways.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. So when you think about your business now, can you tell us a little bit about what you do now? And then I'll dive in a little bit into. Yeah, the details.

Yeah. So I love transformation. I'll always love transformation. And that was probably one of the decision points for me as well in terms of starting my business around how do I do this thing that I really love, but also, you know, do more of other things that I enjoy, which was more of the coaching and, and the things that I didn't do as much of client side just because of the nature of how the role was constructed. So I really spent a lot of time thinking about that and I think, you know, maybe not dissimilarly to other coaches is starting off with that as your core in terms of what is something that you're highly skilled at and very passionate about and can you design your business around that? So people still come to me because I'm known in that transformation space, almost like that transformation coach. But in essence, work with senior leaders, executives and teams as well around how they can become more high performing in the context of complex organizational change. So whether that's through one to one coaching, I do a lot of leadership development work with individuals and teams and then also as a byproduct of that facilitation and a little bit of mentoring as well, for people who have some of the skill sets that might help them in a career in transformation, but maybe a early career and just sort of discovering what that means for them or they've had their first gig and wanting a little bit of support. So I still do a little bit of mentoring also in that space.

I love that. And I really see that thread coming through it, which is the complexity of the change that people in organizations are experiencing and some more than others. It really requires leaders to show up in quite a different way than they might have originally been taught or something that in a way that doesn't come naturally. And so it sounds like you work with leaders and organizations in, you know, really with that thread that through line.

Yeah, and I'm forever grateful for it because of any career that a person could have. I think everyone gets sick of hearing the phrase freight change is the only constant, but it is 100% true. And that is true for professional and personal lives. And so the fact that this happens to be quote unquote, my bread and butter and that I love it and I get energized by it when it, you know, for others it might create huge fear or something that they want to move away from. I never take for granted that I was able to be in a position to do this work and to continue to do it just in sometimes a slightly different way. I occasionally still will do a change or a transformation strategic piece for organizations just almost like as a starting off point, but less so these days just for bandwidth. So yeah, but I still love it. And it's the challenge potentially for all coaches around, putting your energies where you can have the most impact and the most value when really we like to help everywhere we do.

And so do you have any there certain types of clients, whether it's like industrial sector that you tend to work with or are you quite at this point now quite broad?

I'm still quite broad. Interestingly like within, I guess the APAC region, there's some similarities in terms of the types of organizations that are typically doing large scale transformation. And therefore, you know, that is often the jumping off point point for a leader to reach out because it's something that they're experiencing directly. So I work across, you know, mining resources, financial services, local and state government, you know, pretty much anything in between. I've got NFP clients, I've got something which is slightly more unusual, which is family business office clients, which is a space that's kind of emerging for me. But the common thread is they have something that they're experiencing, which is fundamentally shifting their organization or their leadership in terms of, you know, how they're going to show up through quite a complex period, and they're looking for support with that. And so a lot of, you know, when I get engaged, it's that discovery piece around, well, what is it that you're trying to achieve either at an individual level or a team level or an organizational level? And then we work out the sort of best way to approach that and give them that support. So. But, yeah, it's such a cool environment to be in. And if I think, you know, I spent a lot of time thinking about what my values are, and I still come back to, I think one of my highest values is variety and this desire to, you know, be exposed to different things and constantly learning and not having things at a steady state. And so it makes sense on reflection, that this is the world that I love and that I now get to do it in lots of different ways, which also kind of fills my cup, rather than potentially if it was just change, strategy work or just, you know, coaching. I love the fact that I can combine all of them.

I love that so much because I think a lot of us as coaches have. We may not articulate variety as that value, but I see it. I see it constantly, which is that we want to be challenging ourselves and doing, you know, different things and having that stimulation in all different ways. Is there a downside of that? Like, is there a point at which it's like, too many things, too much, it's hard to be focused, or like, how do you balance that for yourself.

With great network and accountability is one of the ways it is. I think it is a challenge, and I don't know if it's a challenge unique to me. And knowing that some of the drivers or to others and potentially to business owners, right. Because there's so many things all of the time that you could or feel like you should be doing, and the temptation to chase after all of them is huge. Partly you know, out of interest. There's always something new to learn. And if you're curiously minded, then that's fun. Partly out of necessity, like, things are changing all the time and you need to be really adaptable and pivot. One of the ways that I approach that is still trying to have some good practices in how I think about how I show up for my work each week and kind of over a month and having a degree of planning to that. The other way is having my community. So that's why I'm Part that's why I have a coach, that's why I'm part of a coaching community, is to bounce ideas and have that perspective and a level of accountability and remind self that everyone is different, everyone's business is different, everyone's journey is different. And you know, having clarity of what is the right thing for you in that season, in that moment is really helpful. And I think some people might find it confusing and go, well, actually being part of a community, aren't you comparing and sort of worrying and looking across the fence. But I find the opposite in terms of I look at what others are doing and I can see the alignment to their business, which is very different from mine. We have different clients, we have different focus areas, we have different ways in which we like to deliver value and I can get those insights and learnings and that helps me be grounded in some ways. So that's probably how I think about it. But I think it's a challenge for leaders across the board. The world is not getting slower, you know, any. Sorry, any less complex. This is where we're at. Yeah. You know, I think if you don't spend that time thinking about some of those strategies and what works and what doesn't work, you know, and sometimes you have to try stuff on and realize and go, okay, well, I'm going to leave that behind then. The risk is that stuff happens to you as opposed to feeling like you've got a degree of control and sort of ownership of outcomes. And I probably see that quite a lot in people that I coach, which makes sense. Right. Change is tumultuous and it can feel like you're in the washing machine, but we spend a lot of time thinking and talking about what are those principles and practices that can give them their steadiness in spite of all of the other things that are happening. Yeah.

And I would just say, you know, I see you walking the talk in terms of being very intentional about, you know, what you choose to do, how you choose to structure your work. And so I think for some people the variety and the amount of work you do could be chaotic, but I think systems and processes are so good that you have this very calming sense that, you know, everything's under control. I'm not trying to say that it never feels, you know, like overwhelming or anything like that, but. But I would say that's something I definitely see in the way you work.

Yeah.

You've had to cuddle, cultivate or has it always come naturally to you?

I think I've always been highly organized and had a good sense of process. I feel like the work and the environments that I love being transformation is. I think about things as a system, a system of work or a system of how things operate and there's different parts of that system and levers and so I'm quite. I spend quite a lot of time thinking about well how is it constructed or how could it be constructed a bit differently in order to get some of the outcomes that I want or have focus in certain areas. And that definitely helps. And I think that's probably something I've always had. My mum was one of the most organized people that I've ever met. I'm certain that rubbed off. However, I think it can also be built and learnt and lent into if it isn't. And my organized and system will look completely different to the next person. And I think it's just finding out what that is. But you know, equally I try and be as authentic as I can be and vulnerable and you know, I don't have it all together. By no means. I was just reflecting this morning. I did a really good job of pre planning some of work when I was away. I was in Europe for three weeks recently and then since I've been back I've just been running in terms of with client work and delivery and all of my outreach, my marketing, all of those things have really dropped off and I felt a little bit kind of disappointed by that. And I thought, you know what, this is just life, you know. Yeah. And it's what's the reset moment? And so that's this week just getting back on that horse and yeah. Picking certain things up and just realizing that it's okay. But my other learning is I am still absolutely in that transition of where does my business need me and where can I continue to get more support. Whether that's through tooling again, better systems or actually people. So. And that's an interesting process to go through as a business evolves or I have found because my tendency is probably to do more instead of go okay, does this actually. Is this the best use of my time and does this really require me or can I show up better and be more impactful in a different way? So yeah. Yeah.

So another thing I'd love to share with the audience is I would say that you have a real strength when it comes to building your network, your warm network. And I'm not even talking about warm outreach, although that's part of it. But I mean like those deeply personal connections that become this community around us and I See you doing that so well. And I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about I guess where that came from, like what made you lean into it, what your practices look like, how you think about it.

Yeah, I mean again, if I reflect, I think it's something that's always been important to me in terms of having relationships with others and not feeling like I'm going it alone. And I probably lent into it even more being a business owner who is a solo business, like you know, solopreneur, whatever the term is. But I don't have a team. It, you know, what you see is me. And that can be really lonely at times. And it's another reason that I do have a good cultivated community around me in terms of the accelerator and other communities of practice or things like that I'm part of. Because one, it's human connection, which is something I've always really valued. Even as an introvert, I like to be with others. I'm interested in what they're doing. I'm curious, you know, I love seeing how people are thinking about how they approach work life, you know, and the successes that I get. I get a lot of gratitude and interest out of that. So I think that's, you know, probably a core kind of value that's always existed and then I've just potentially amplified it knowing that it's something that I have to cultivate for myself because I don't have the same natural environment that I do if I was working client side, you know, within an organization, within a team. I'm also very fortunate that again the type of work that I do is people based work. It's requires a lot of people to be involved in creating something and achieving success. So I naturally able to tap into that through my clients and the work that they do. They're all phenomenal about having me in their organizations. I even, you know, spend one or two days a week every few weeks with some of my clients. Even if I'm not always just doing their work, if I'm working with a few different things, which I love. And so I've just been quite deliberate about designing for that in terms of the more the other aspects of I guess what people might say is networking for one of a better word. I think curiosity and desire to learn is what's driven it. And then valuing relationship and seeing how I can be supportive, which is a core kind of coaching trait, sustains it. I don't know if that makes sense in terms of. And the byproduct of that for coaching, I think is you never know. You don't. I don't believe that a lot of people I know go into something within with a motivation for a particular outcome, unless it's really as directors. Yes. We're talking about a proposal and it's, you know, it's already set out like that, but a lot of the time it's just meeting new people and learning about them. And so often something that you've had a connection about years later or months later ends up turning into something that might then have a business sort of tie in in terms of, oh, can you talk to this person that I know who's a mutual contact? I think there's, you know, some value that you could give them. You know, they're looking and I don't think you can get that unless you're out talking to people and you're interested in the work that they do and you're looking to support and help them. So, you know, my tip for any new coaches would be go in looking at how you can offer value without expecting anything in return because it's the right thing to do and it's a good human quality to have help where you can. I love that.

Yeah, I love that. And so growing a business, like, what have the challenges been for you? Like what have the hard bits been?

The balance between the working on the business stuff versus sort of around like balancing delivery and actually delivering work and. Yeah, and even because I enjoy variety, you know, just being really deliberate and purposeful and not over committing coaching is amazing in terms of if I do one to one coaching more so than sort of group or team coaching. And you know, you can have coaching clients sort of sprinkled throughout your week, which is really awesome. Like, it's an amazing touch point to have that. And then I might have, you know, facilitation on one day and then I'm in doing some teaming work and some more kind of strategic work on a different day. So I think just managing the load of that is something I've really had to learn around not over committing because again, we like to help. You know, there is sometimes that risk of overhelping and over committing being okay with the lumpiness of business. And you know, I'm responsible for the revenue that I bring in and the work that I take on and always having that line of sight of what's coming down the Runway and how do you keep the pipeline full. But again, balancing that out against not over committing and saying yes to everything out of fear and still holding true to working with the people that you want to work with and doing the type of work that you do, which is the whole purpose of why I set up my business in the first place.

Would you say that's something you've grown more comfortable with over time? That, like, in the early days, it felt like there was a lot more pressure to say yes to everything because you didn't know when it might dry up. But now do you feel sort of more confident that, you know. You know, it will continue?

Definitely more confident. I don't know that I'll ever get away from that fire that is lit within to. To continue to drive just to, you know. Yeah. To maintain that confidence. I feel like that's always going to be there. And as far as I can tell, talking to other people who run their own businesses, whether that's coaching or. Or not, it's a pretty consistent kind of theme. And it's one that could be really potentially damaging if you don't recognize it. Get a grasp on that and be realistic about how it drives actions, because then I think it would be more of things happening to me rather than me feeling like I've got a degree of influence and control, which I have develop. The longer that you're in business, the more reference points that you have, the cycles, you see how that goes. You're obviously building even more credibility, your networks expanding. All of those things lead to more successful outcomes and more consistency of work and income. But they're not a given if you don't keep nurturing them and having focus on that. So I'm conscious of that, but probably don't wake up at night as often as I did in the early days around, oh, my goodness, what am I doing? Yeah, this is insane. Go back and get a job just sometimes.

Just sometimes.

Yeah. Very rarely, which is so wonderful. And I think it's a good indicator of continuing to do the things that I'm already doing. I think I would get a signal pretty quickly if something, you know, had reset and I didn't feel like that and that lack of confidence was creeping through. That would be a signal to me that either I need to change something or something's fundamentally shifted in, you know, the business that I thought I had. So, yeah, just being aware to those things.

And what are you most proud of in terms of what you've built in your business?

Wow. God, I haven't ever really thought about that. I didn't ever think I was going to be a business owner, to be honest. So probably the pride in Sort of seeing the potential of something and following it through and actually delivering on it. And I know I've heard you speak before about even just those micro moments of being consistent about certain things, you know, and you've got the podcast weekly for years now that when you sit out, you're like, oh, this is my intent. But I wasn't sure.

I wasn't too flaky for that.

But yeah, I think it's the same mindset. It's like, oh, wow, you know, I actually made a decision. I put some building blocks in place and I've continued to put building blocks in place and that it's an actual real life thing that allows me to do work I love, have flexibility that's really important to me for my family and that I think has a high degree of impact over and above what I would be able to do.

Yeah.

In an organization if I was an employee or doing different type of work. And that's rare. So probably pride in that, in creating that.

It's really rare. I think that impact is extraordinary. And I'm hearing also that, like, impact on clients. Yes, but impact on your family and, you know, all the people in your orbit as well as. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Pride in not necessarily the outcome, but just the fact that you've grown it and what you've done and the consistency and the building.

Yeah. And, you know, I've reflected a bit more recently around timing. And so I'm not a huge one for looking back and, you know, what ifs and having regrets. But reflection is helpful. And I was wondering, I was like, if I had this opportunity in my 20s or earlier in my career, would I have embraced it? And I'm not sure that I would have. No. For different reasons, you know, some of them personal, like where I was at with my family and what we kind of needed then. But also the experience that I've been able to gain along the way that I think allows me to have the business that I have today and make the impact that I have. And so to anyone who's thinking about it, I don't think there's a right time or a perfect time or the same time for anyone. And that journey could look quite different. But for me and the type of work that I do and who, the leaders that I mostly work with, I felt like all of that was a natural kind of progression to get to this point. And then, you know, the universe said like, now's the time. And, you know, I was just spending more and more time coaching And I think that was the catalyst. It's like, okay, if I'm doing more of this work, why. And I can see that gap, why don't I do something about it? So that's kind of how we got here.

I mean, it's completely inspiring. Just as we sort of start to wrap up, what are your tips for new coaches who are starting their business? What would you tell them that you wish you'd known when you started?

Tips would be get really clear around why. Why you want to be a business owner over and above a different model of coaching. Because, you know, I'm also conscious that there are different models. And even in my journey, I almost maybe didn't have the label of coach, but probably the last part of that journey was ultimately coaching 80% of the time. And so for some people, that might be what they want to do and, you know, or it might be actually being a coach, but, you know, being a coach within an organization, either directly or as an associate. And so I'd say get really clear around why, first of all, why you want to be a coach and then why you might want to have business. And then how quickly can you tell people about that and start to seed it and gauge their support to a degree in terms of making that pathway to transition. If that's what you're doing, transitioning out of an organization and into owning your business, how quickly can you accelerate that process by leaning into the people who already want to support you and who are strong in your network and can help you get there, because ultimately they're your clients and that's how you're going to make money. And, you know, there is that very real practicality. Do it for the right reasons, but also be realistic about how that's going to work and what you need. I did, probably on reflection, like, a lot of coaches spend too much time procrastinating on stuff that doesn't add as much value, but in the moment, seems like what you need to do because it's what normal businesses do. And I think coaching is a little bit different like that in terms of. Of it's nice to have a website, it's nice to have, you know, presence on LinkedIn, but it's not. You can be built over time. It's not a stage gate to starting to get clients and be successful and which may not be the case for other businesses. So I think you can sometimes fall into that trap of, well, how would you run a different type of business? And I don't think it's exactly like for like in the space where it's so relationship driven. Yeah, it's so trust driven. Like, I mean trust is the number one thing that I think coaches need. So. And you're going to get that from your existing network and the people who know you.

Yeah, I agree. And I always say if there's one thing you do, make it warm outreach because you can build your website at the same time and you can build your LinkedIn. But the thing that's going to turn the dial is actually talking to real.

People and it's scary. I mean, I don't want to put anyone off and I, you know, but I think the reality is it is scary. So how can you have supports and things in place to make that less scary? And that's what I did. I had good, supportive people in my network that I knew would have my back, that I talked to about my aspirations that I already knew were kind of going to be there to assist how they could. And I very quickly reached out and got a community, like a more sort of formal community because that's. Nobody else knows it. Like somebody who's been through it.

Yeah, agree. And that's, I mean totally behind why I've built. And I know you built your business long before you joined us in the accelerator, but that's what I'm really hoping we have is this, you know, ready made container full of coaches in this same boat to build that network. What would you say to someone who was considering joining in the accelerator? Like what would your advice or reasons why they should join or not join? What would you say?

Oh, I mean, I don't think the not join is really an option. I think if people can work in terms of the. What's really interesting to me and I don't know if I think you know this story, but I don't know how much others do. When I first started out, I worked with more of a what I would call a traditional type business coach in terms of more like a tacky, more style, you know, really focused on high numbers of clients and you know, and did some amazing work with them in terms of getting clear around my offer and you know, making sure that the focus areas in terms of my niche, so there was a good element of it, but what they really didn't understand and what I find a lot of people don't understand in this space is the nuance of executive coaching and the tie into corporate. And I think if you're someone who wants to work in that space and we know there's coaches there's wellness coaches, health coaches, business coaches, all these different types of coaches. But executive coaching and corporate coaching is its own beast. Like there's a whole organism of how an organization operates and thinking about that from a client perspective and how you want to add value and the relationships that you have, that is just not well understood. And in my opinion, there's really no one out there other than you that's doing this work that's providing that specific insight of how you would set up this type of a coaching business as opposed to just general coaching business. So I think if they're clear around that's what they want to do and they want to get there faster and this is the space that they want to play in, then that should be a massive motivator. And because everyone in there has been there, we are all from corporate backgrounds. Yeah. We don't do the same things. You know, I've always found that fascinating. We've got the health people and it's really varied. And yeah, that is actually cool how, yeah, we all understand corporates and we understand the machine of corporates and how that work is done. And so, yeah, I'd say that would be a real consideration if that's the space that they want to play in. And it's a pretty obvious connection point. Thank you.

Now, I want to do one sort of hot seat, quick question without notice, you know, if you game and we can edit this out if it doesn't work out. So my first one, I'll ask a few questions. First one, if you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be?

Oh, gosh.

Everyone says I should give notice on this one. Really?

I don't know. This is going to sound like such a cop out, but I'm not a big person for having like people on pedestals and kind of these ideal sort of. Yeah. I have an ideal client in terms of the type of features, but not an individual in mind. So I'm not giving you a great answer there. That's fine. I genuinely can't think of someone in business and I'm like, okay. I feel like they've got some really amazing public aspects of their personality that I could think could be hugely amplified by the coaching that I do. And particularly because my work is kind of unusual in that transformation space. So. But let me reflect on it. Something like. No, that's, that's fine, that's fine.

The next one is, if you had to recommend one book or podcast to a, to a coach, what would you recommend?

Oh, gosh, again, too hard for someone who loves to, like, read all the things and little things, I've got a few going on. There is another executive coach podcast. Gosh, I can't remember her name. She's American. That I listen to with yours. I tend to not listen to as many true coaching podcasts and more kind of business and leadership. I feel like he's got such. It is going to sound so generic as well, but he's got such a great style. But Diary of a CEO, he gets some super interesting guests and I think his way of engaging and drawing information out from them is really quite special in that he's quite. This is going to sound odd as well. He's got kind of some feminine qualities around how he engages, which I think is quite different in that space with men. Regulated very and very, like, in tune with his feelings. And that kind of comes through. And he's got a really empathetic style because I find that, yeah, some men who have podcasts I listen to, it can be a bit blokey. Yeah. Which is not so fun. I mean, look, this is literally the book. These are the books that I have sitting next to me right now. Please. We love it, like, because I see things or someone recommends them and then I order them and then I have to find a time to read through them. This one, the coaching habits. Say, say less, ask more and change the way you leave forever. That's quite cool. Who's that author? Michael.

Michael Stanier.

Filter on. Just because I wanted to read it to see if it was something that my clients might like. I think for a coach, there's a lot in here that we obviously know or could relate to, but it's such easy read. So I think if you're looking for one for class. Typical conversations. How to discuss what matters most. Oh, my God.

I'll put it in front of your face. There we go.

Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton and Sheila Heen. In change, a lot of what sometimes comes into play is fear. And with fear can be avoidance of conversations. So this one was recommended. I have only just read the first chapter, so too early to say, but it looks quite good. And it looks also. I love anything that's laid out. Really easy to read.

Me too.

At night and then bullshift. Because I've had a few clients. I do a lot of facilitation, but I wouldn't say that it's what I always lead with. I feel like I'm a coach and I do leadership development and facilitation becomes a vehicle of how I often do that. But I'm with my naturally introverted style and I'm not the big rara person that sometimes corporates are used to. But these guys get such an amazing ray from anyone who's ever used them. And I was just really curious. They're Perth based.

Who's the author?

It's Andrew Horabin. He runs Bullshift. Yeah. What a great name. You know, it's heavily focused on communication and storytelling. Perfect. And yeah, I'm super fascinated by anything to do with storytelling at the moment and better understanding about the value of that. And I believe. I don't know if this is actually. But I believe. And the wapa, they're starting to expand out their program for corporates around. They do the storytelling piece and the value of that within an organizational setting which obviously actors and those sorts of things. But really cool. That is so cool.

Fantastic look. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I know as coaches we just love of any suggestions, resources, books. So appreciate that. We'll put those in the show notes. So if someone wants to work with you or connect with you, Lou, how.

Are they best to get in touch either. DM me on LinkedIn. My surname is unusual and so I'm very easy to find. So Z A W A D A.

Yeah, we'll have that all over the show notes in the title.

Yeah. Well, on my website, Louise Rider leadership. And yeah, I've got a way of contacting me there and just reach out to someone who knows me and such as me. Yes. Yeah. And email me. And that's how I randomly get a lot of my clients is they'll just drop into my inbox and say, hey, I heard about you. Can we have a chat? I'm like always, always.

Yeah, no, I love it. And so thank you so much for your time today, Lou. I really appreciate it and I know that coaches are going to get so much out of your insights because your.

Yeah. Your story is very inspiring. Thank you.