Unlearning - Zsofia Juhasz on the MCC coach evolution

Hello and welcome to the Business of Executive Coaching podcast. I am absolutely delighted to be here with the extraordinary Joffia Duhaz, and I'm going to do a bit of an introduction and then I'm going to let you fill in the gaps, Joffia, because I'm going to miss things because this is a pretty impressive set of qualifications that I'm going to share here. So Joffia is an ICF MCC coach with over 9,500 hours of coaching. She's a coach, a team coach, a mentor coach, a coach supervisor. She runs a Level 3 training program for PCC coaches who are training towards becoming an MCC coach. She is the past president of the ICF Australasia Queensland branch. She is a, has been a nominating committee member for the ICF and also an ambassador for the ICF coaching education for the APAC region. She is multilingual. She is very talented, but none of this fully captures her. So, Sofia is also wise and kind and exemplifies what you would think about when you think about an MCC coach. So on that note, welcome. It is wonderful to have you here, Sofia.

Thanks, Ellie Scarf. So happy to be here. Thanks for the introduction.

No worries. So just to kick us off, would you be happy to share your corporate to coach story?

Corporate to coach. So I came across coaching 22 years ago, and I remember exactly why it's 22 years, because I was pregnant and I sort of had to really convince my boss to sign me up on a leader as coach training because some of my colleagues in AstraZeneca had a coach, especially the sales leaders. It was through a regional initiative, and that company who offered the coaches also started to train coaches more, the leaders, for using coaching skills. And as I said, I was pregnant, I really thought this is something really exciting, something I can do, and I was really interested in. My husband always said it's a FOMO, like fear of missing out, and I would definitely agree to that because that was the first time being pregnant. I didn't know how long I will be on maternity leave in Hungary. In brackets, I'm Hungarian, and in Hungary you can be on maternity leave for 3 years, so which is a long time to be away. And again, I just wanted to really upskill and take any opportunity I can that when I return to the workplace, that I'm not missing out, or I have all the skills that maybe, you know, in the next 3 years something will happen. I didn't stay at home for 3 years, only 1 year. And then we ended up having 2 more children. And then that initial, I guess, idea then turned into 3, 4 years later when the youngest was 6 months old into, okay, I'm on maternity leave again, this time 1.5 years. What do I do with my time apart from looking after the children? And then again, I did a bit of research, I did some assessments, and I really figured out that I'm a people person, I like to develop people. Apart from being an HR leader, where else and how else can I do it? So coaching came up again, and this time, the second time around, was a 1-year course. And interestingly, of course, we did a lot of peer coaching and practicing, and one of those activities was Ideal Day. So I've written that, or I've done that activity, but I'm a very sort of bullet point person. I'm not definitely never ever going to write a PhD or a book. And I'd done that activity. I said, I want to work part-time in HR leadership role. I want to also coach. I want to be able to be around the kids. So less travel, less commute. And guess what? The role came up. I wasn't offered it initially. I had a good summer with the children. And then 2 months later, at the end of August, and it was actually Disney who rang and said that, well, you were the second on the list. The other person resigned and then are you still available? So it ended up being a 1-year role. I guess I always add to this that what I didn't put on that ideal day list is because in my mind it was, I could only work as a permanent employee because that was my contract with AstraZeneca. So guess what? To my surprise that this was the role I wanted. Yeah. I imagined I could do everything I wanted and, but it was through a higher agency because it was a one-year maternity role, so they really wanted to make sure it's all—

yeah.

So, and yeah, that's sort of your first stint in self-employment, really. I mean, I was employed, but I was employed through that company, not at Disney. But being in HR, like, I had an X in the middle of my name or in the email address, so I couldn't have access to certain things which being in HR would have been beneficial. But again, I mean, at the time was important, a couple of years, yeah, it was okay. And but I think what really happened was that I could use coaching. I could use, I created a leader team coaching engagement for the leaders there. And I use the coaching approach to leadership because the handover, as you can imagine, was very swift, like 1 or 2 days. Yes. And inadvertently, or I guess intuitively, I ended up asking a lot of questions. So instead of saying, I told, I remember telling myself, I can't say I don't know, I don't know 5 times a day. Day, because I didn't. So I, I ended up asking questions like, where, how did it work last time? What would you like to have? Or so anyway, it was really fun in hindsight. I don't think that at the time it was very conscious, but in hindsight, it, as you know, it always makes sense.

Mhm. And so from there, how did you, I guess, step into self-employment?

Well, we moved to Australia 14 years ago, and Initially, I was looking for HR roles because I guess that's more of my experience, and I just didn't find anything that resonated. And then I again sat down and thought, what do I do now? Like, what's my strength? What can I leverage? How can I, you know, fill the gap between my passion of wanting to work? And then coaching came up again. And, you know, I was a member already for ICF back in Hungary, and I transferred my membership to Australia, and I went to the first meeting after 1 month of landing here and then going there on, I guess, every month, every second month. So it was reconnecting with peers, coaches. And then when I sat down, I said, like, okay, where am I good at apart from being in HR or being an HR professional? It was coaching. And then I just sort of looked around again. It was not easy. I like the network. And what happened was that I ended up volunteering as the president for ICF in 2016. And I spent so much time on volunteering that after 3 years I said, well, if I would be spending all this time and effort for my business and on building my business, what can happen? So I was a past president for a while, but of course, definitely stepped back from the day-to-day and many hours. And I looked around and I think it was a bit of good timing that this was just before the pandemic. So I did a I looked for virtual companies and like companies that offered also virtual coaching, and there was not a lot at the time. And then with the pandemic, there was more. And then I ended up really busy. And I remember in, I think, 2018, 2019, my first— the first company I started working with, I had only half an hour of coaching session after 3-month onboarding and interview process. And I even forgot to invoice because like It was half an hour. But anyway, so, but yeah, I ended up busy. I call myself an accidental MCC. I never planned to become an MCC. And for 4 years now, I think. Yeah. So yeah, lots of hours ended up paying, paying. Yeah. Because allowing me to, to pursue this really.

Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about what does your business look like now?

Well, I call myself— so the, the business has, I would say, maybe two main focus that I call myself, like developing the next generation of leaders. And then one bucket is the leadership executive coaching, and the other bucket is developing and working with coaches in the mentoring, in the supervision, or in the coach education space.

Right. So still the practice of actual hands-on coaching, but also this, this quite significant piece of your business, which is is mentoring, supervising, and training coaches. Tell us a bit about that, because I'm always interested in different coach training. But you're not talking about like a Level 1, someone starting coaching, this is, this is how you learn to be a coach. Tell us about what you actually do with coaches.

So what I do with coaches is really focusing on the PCC level coaches, like anybody who has over 500 hours of coaching experience, and Why, in a way, is that because when I became an MCC, it was around exactly the same time that ICF was revisiting the Pathways, and I ended up researching the website, and I saw that suddenly it's a Level 1 and a Level 2 and a Level 3, which I saw a pilot of. And it was maybe in May, June that I said, I've been waiting for 4 months for my MCC to hear back from ICF, and I I was self-doubting myself. Like, everybody I knew and I looked up to, they failed. So I said, like, there's no way I will succeed. So if I fail, I will need to learn and do something. So there was a Level 3 program that I came across. I signed up, and well, guess what, very serendipitous that it was starting on a Thursday, my 10 PM in the evening, and I received an email from ICF at 7 AM in the morning that I'm an MCC. So because this was a pilot, I had to withdraw from the program. But it did inspire me that, okay, now I'm an accidental MCC, I'm an MCC. So what can I do with this opportunity in a way, or now that I achieved this? And then I reached out to a friend and she was still sort of thinking of applying to her MCC, and then she did. And then 6 months later, when she also became an MCC, we started working on and brainstorming of, well, what can we do? How can we create a program? It was really new at the time and we worked on it. We launched a pilot program with 8 students and then we applied. And then the program was the 33rd at the time, so it was really new. Now I think there are around 77. So of course the last 3 years has a lot of other coaches caught up with this. And because I feel for me at least, like I never— and it's also interesting, sort of full circle because I'm— I trained as a teacher in English language. Teaching English as a Foreign Language. And so I never really wanted to teach. I never taught. And then here I am, I don't know how many, 20, 30 years later, creating a program to teach PCC coaches. And I really wanted to focus on that because it's a very interesting step up. So not just like starting from scratch, but also like when you are already an established, experienced coach, you have a lot of hours under your belt, like how can you become that next level?

Yeah, well, firstly, I want to say I also had that experience. So my parents were teachers and I grew up saying, I'm never going to be a teacher, like definitely never be a teacher. And then here I am in a fairly education adjacent role. So obviously, like there's a difference in the way coach education looks for someone who is starting out and for someone who is at this level of PCC looking at MCC and obviously what is expected in order to, you know, become an MCC. And get that certification. Do we say certification or accreditation?

Certification. Credentialing. Credentialing. Yeah. Okay.

Good. I always ask, I always get that one wrong. What's different about what you teach versus, you know, that, that Level 1 or Level 2 training that someone might do?

Well, I, I guess the Level 1, Level 2 is more the basics. Like, how do you even start to ask questions versus giving advice or suggestion? Because I think that comes much more naturally to everybody, anybody, me including. I'm giving advice all the time if I'm not a coach and in my private life, but as a coach. So the difference is that we are starting like the foundations are there. So for at the Level 3, you start off, what do you know? And you know, what are the strengths? But also how will you and what, and what will you unlearn to become a Master Coach? So for me, and I'm sure if you ask many other coaches, they would have a one word of what's their like How would they, or what would describe them becoming or being an MCC? So for me, it's the unlearning, but also relearning, because it's not just unlearning. If you're unlearning something, you will have the space, the capacity to learn something new and different. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love that. And what sort of people, you know, choose to do your program? Like, are they people who are, you know, obviously they have a lot of hours, but do they tend to have a certain type of practice or come from a certain background, or are they quite diverse?

I would say diverse, like definitely they would be coaching mainly corporates, potentially similarly than me, then, or differently, like they would have their business private practice or, and they would be also working with, through third-party providers. But I, interestingly, last year I spoken to 2 or 3 coaches who were internal coaches. So the timing was really crucial for them. Like you know, they can't spend 2.5 hours in the middle of the working day. Right. And then in September, I will be working again. I'm going to launch the 7th cohort, and one of the coaches will be a grief coach. So that's her specialty. So it will be very interesting for me as well to learn from her.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so what advice would you give to someone who's trying to make that decision? Like, should I go down the path of doing a Level 3?

Training? Well, first of all, Ellie, I don't give advice. I would ask a question.

But if we put your mentor hat on?

Well, I try. It's interesting because one coach I spoke to, he said that, oh, I was expecting a full-blown sales conversation. And then because I ask questions like, what drives you to become an MCC? What's your aspirations? Or what's your vision for yourself? What's— so basically, what's the why? Because just if you are wanting the credentialing after your name, most of the time that will not going to carry you through when there are the challenges. So there is always, and again, whatever the why is, I'm just asking, I'm really asking questions and being curious. So I try in a way try to role model as well that maybe what it takes or what it's going to look like and what it's going to be like to be an MCC and who will you become? What are the values behind your decision? What values do you want to, I guess, live by or live through? Your decision. So it's a conversation and then it's easy in that way because, and I would also say that there's a lot of confusion, like I think with the hours especially that, oh, I don't have the 2,005 hours, can I start or can I enroll? And you can, because if you're a PCC and you have over 500 hours, there is no other limitation in a way that would stop you from enrolling. Yeah, the finances, the time commitment. Generally it's like between 75 and 100 hours. Mine is 78. So there are all these varieties, like is it 2 hours, 3 hours? Yeah, I've also seen programs like 3 weeks and then a break. I've also seen programs that are like 3 locations across the world over a year, so you have to travel. So again, what excites you? What draws you? If you want to travel the world and— yeah, and then study and learn one week at a time, or, or do it online on weekly basis, the same time, same day.

Okay, so I'm imagining that it's people who, you know, maybe feel like they haven't had a large developmental experience in a while, right? They may have done their PCC training some time ago and that they're wanting to pour back into themselves, that there's something that they, they want to, I guess, yeah, bring about in, in their being as a coach that might be different to where they are.

Yeah, but what I also find is it's a good point that actually a lot of us coaches invest in ourselves potentially on a continuous basis because there is so much learning. And this is what I found. And not just the coaches who end up enrolling into the Level 3, but generally that we like to learn, we like to invest in ourselves. And sometimes the what do I do next and where do I spend my money is the biggest sort of decision. And I hear that, oh, I enrolled into this program and that program, so I will only have time I don't know, next September or next February. And this is just, you know, already, you know, April this year in 2026. So it's a lot. And again, that's, I guess, to your point before as well, that there are people, coaches who make plans and invest accordingly. And I've also messaged coaches and they said, yeah, I'm over my PD budget already, so I can't do X, Y, Z. And others are more sort of impromptu. Like I had coaches' conversations that I said, like, the program starts next week. And she said, yes, I'm in. Potentially she already made the decision or it was just like, how do you look? How do you sound? Do you have the chemistry with that particular person? Yeah. So do you have the credibility? Is it aligning time-wise and price-wise? And then, but I think deep down they already made the decision. So yeah, I have all these conversations like, yes, I'm happy to start within a week or I need a year because I am so busy.

Okay, I mean, I'm just thinking about who, who should look you up, and I mean, I think everyone should and do find— we'll put links to Jafia's LinkedIn and her website in the show notes. But really, I think the magic is for those people who are at that PCC level who really want to explore something about who they are as a coach and what they want to bring about, which is exciting. But I know that you also have been running a coaching business As you've, like you said, you've got these two sides of your practice. So, you know, what have you learned about growing businesses as well? Because you're actually kind of, they're kind of two quite different businesses that you run. And I'm wondering what you've learned about business over this time.

Oh, great question. What have I learned? I definitely learned to be resilient in a way. That it might not work out first time around, but don't give up and find ways that— I mean, I talk about myself that I needed to find ways to— how, where can I add value? Like I said, it's not possible that my experience, my background is not valuable. So where is then that space and where is that community? Where can I sort of add value, have an impact in a way? So It took time for me, for sure. So it didn't also happen overnight. And then I would also attribute most of my success to the pandemic. I mean, unfortunately, that everything became virtual and organizations, leaders were looking for virtual ways to learn. And I remember we first met during the pandemic doing the leadership circle. And I also wanted to do a team coach training. And for, I don't know, 2 or 3 years, I was looking everywhere online because I could travel, but I, I What was missing from my bio is that I have a, I'm a mom of 3 teenagers now, but, you know, 5, 6, 7 years ago, like 8 years ago, I couldn't really travel a lot because of the commitment. And I was looking for team coach training and guess what? There's nobody, nothing was available. I've done a team coach training in Sydney. I came home 2 days later, Australia shut down completely. And then 3 months, 4 months later, every, all these courses, everyone was online. And then exactly. And then now it is possible to do team coaching and team coach training online. Yes, it's not ideal, but anyway, all these, I guess, so what a belief was that no, it's not possible ended up being. So for me, the worker, virtual working does help or did help. What have I learned? I think maybe I overinvested in myself as a coach and maybe not invested in myself as a business owner or finances or the books or invoicing. And are there any systems rather than doing things manually? And it also happened while I was also very busy. So it was growing, I guess, trying to grow all those places at the same time.

And yeah. Yeah. I love all of those lessons, the resilience and the fact that actually these things just take time. And what I loved, this statement that it's not possible that there is not a place where your experience is valuable. And we've just got to find it, right? And for a lot of people, um, they don't invest enough in that, I think, in, in that the reflective piece that is involved in that. And so yeah, that's a fantastic tip. And also, like, I'm taking that lesson— like, hopefully we never have another pandemic, right, where people can go— but I think there is this lesson in that, which is the scenario— even the most difficult situations that you find yourself in are in fact sometimes the thing that will give you the biggest opportunity as well. And working around—

I think that word, the word— yes, but I think the word pivot, which I don't like because I think it was overused during the first few years, a couple of years of the pandemic, but I think it is the case that like, yeah, this is happening and what can I do? Like, not just freeze and panic and yeah, yeah. I mean, I did that as well, don't get me wrong, but I guess, okay, so what can I do differently? Yeah, I guess go one, one step at a time rather than— yeah, yeah.

And there's also a little bit of like letting yourself be a bit creative, I think, and figuring out what it can be. I love that. And also, yeah, investing not just in your coach development, but in your business. And I guess your business skills, but also your business infrastructure is also really powerful. And, you know, I speak as someone who fell into those traps of not managing my books well and ending up with a big tax debt and, you know, all of those things that I had to then pull myself out of. And I really, really hope I hope other people can learn from that experience as well. Um, what have the hardest parts been of growing a business for you?

I guess saying no.

Saying no. Yes. In what sort of way?

Because you don't know. I didn't know, and I still don't know, uh, Ellie. And I guess that's going to be a constant battle. Like, if I say no to something What do I— yeah, like, will there be something else instead? Yeah, so maybe that consistency, that, or something to controlling some of the things, you know, aspects of like, will I have clients? Where will they come from? How much time will it going to take? And as I said, like, some conversations, like, yeah, I'm meeting somebody and they say yes within, and they are happy to pay and start within a week. Others, I'm— it's a follow-up over a year or over 6 months. So then it's a lot of, yeah, time, energy. So yeah. So where do I say—

Yeah, it's interesting because there is that, that fear, isn't there? That if I say no to something, not only am I saying no to this opportunity, but it's like, what if I'm signaling to the universe that I'm not open for business and nothing else ever flows to me ever again? And, and And yeah, we feel that way, don't we? Like, that's the, that's the feeling. That's the fear. It's not rational. But in fact, what I often see happen is when we say no because we are starting to get clearer about, you know, what's important to us, our, our boundaries around whether that's fees or the type of work we want to do or the type of client we want to work with. In fact, it works the opposite way, which is that we call in more of what we do want. So yeah. You know, particularly as most— I think I can say most, most coaches have that deep people-pleasing vein. Saying no is really hard.

And even— but I think what you are saying is that you also have to be courageous and also trust yourself, the process.

Yes.

Yeah. The universe or whatever you believe in.

Yeah. I think self-trust is such a big part of business growth and I'm thinking more and more about it in terms of how it plays out for us, because we might trust that a system will work or that, you know, the theory is right. But do we trust ourselves to be able to sit with that is a different, a different question. That's a very good one. Anything else?

I think that's such a parallel. I really like what you said because for me what came up was the adjusting coaching. Do you trust the client? Do you trust yourself? And do you trust the coaching process? Oh, yes. So then being in that coaching having the coaching frame mindset or hat on longer than stepping into the advice suggestion. So, oh yeah, exactly that. So this is so true for the business building. Do I trust in myself?

Yeah. Yes. And I'm sort of giving away, I did just record a podcast episode on this, but I think for us as coaches, when we're selling, part of it is trusting ourselves, but also recognizing that the person coming to us to buy coaching, whether it's an individual or an organization, they also have to trust in their own ability to achieve the goals of, you know, they're going to make an investment and they might believe in you as a coach, but do they, do they trust themselves to be able to do what is required? And so it's, yeah, it's very kind of makes your mind get a bit confused after a while. But yeah, it's a big thing that's at play. And, you know, I think that that's probably where we start to look at the value of things like coaching supervision, which I know you do, and mentoring and the work that I do coaching business owners. Because so much of business growth is about how we feel about ourselves and our beliefs about ourselves and our beliefs about business growth. And so it's, yeah, it's not as easy as just go out and sell something. It's all right, righto, now let me work through all my baggage on the way, which is, yeah, yeah, it's sad but true. What are you most proud of in terms of the business that you've grown?

I guess first of all, maybe that I've grown a business. Ellie Scarf.

Yeah, something from nothing.

Exactly. Because especially like I worked in corporate HR, like I had a business, I had a salary, I had paid holidays, maternity leave cover, everything. And then moving to Australia and yeah, just I never thought that I will run my own business in the first place, let alone do this what I'm doing.

Yeah, I love that. I feel the same. I'm like, wow, you know, this is something that, that we've built, isn't it? Yeah, it's amazing. It must also— like, I imagine given the work you do with coaches, and, and I feel a little bit the same, you must have now— I think you said you're 7 cohorts in—

to—

you must have this kind of, this incredible community of coaches that you have worked with who you can see now doing amazing work in the world. Like, how does that— what's that like?

It's exciting. Like, in a way, I'm not saying like giving, you know, but in a way, yeah, they are my— not my children, but they are very close to me. The process, the journey. And, and because it's, it's challenging and for everybody in different way. And, you know, there were coaches who lost their jobs. There are coaches who lost their parents during the journey. Of course, you know, navigating, getting up very early in the morning because the some, you know, again, the cohorts are very global, very international. So I could have clients like 5, 6 a.m. in America and maybe 6, 7, 8 p.m. in Australia. So there is a lot to navigate, you know, in between as well. And, and I think that the flexibility they have shown in— yeah, we start the program, but yeah, can you actually do it, you know, maybe a month later, and then another day of the week, time of the week, like not your 8 AM, your midday? So all these, as the programs grow, and I guess I'm also proud that who they become and who they are becoming. And all the— so it's, I guess, in a butterfly in a way, that we all— the caterpillar and the butterfly, they all come in caterpillars and then they leave or end up leaving halfway through becoming— yeah, because it's— and not everybody sort of is ready to submit because first is the hours. Like, you know, they, as you, as I said, you can start the program just by being a PCC. It doesn't matter the hours. So not everybody is ready to submit, but there were also two coaches who were ready to submit within a month and they did become MCCs within a year of starting.

So, but yeah, I guess for some people they come and they do the training and then they work through the hours. Yes, which is the same as what happens with Level 1 and Level 2. It's just more hours potentially.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also some of the challenges that last year, again, a bit of luck, it took me maybe 10 minutes to think about it. But to your point that sometimes we need to sit back, but there were 10, 15 MCCs, new MCCs popping up on my LinkedIn feed. And that was the time that one of the cohorts were really sort of going through a lot of challenges and self-doubt, like, am I good enough coach? And I'm asking all these questions, the clients say they value, they are getting 'Why do you tell me this is not MCC-like?' And then, so I reached out to these new MCCs and I started the podcast myself to interview MCCs who just became MCCs and very fresh in the experience. And I try to reach out and have a conversation. So then I can, those, you know, in the process or thinking about the process to sort of, well, can resonate because this is what I'm also learning that that there are all these challenges, but we face it maybe at the different stages, or but maybe not exactly like that, but a different way. So it could be very inspiring to hear that I've done it 2 months ago, I'm a new MCC, but this was how I selected a coach, a mentor, a client. What were the challenges that I had to overcome? Did I have to resubmit or not? Like, what worked for that coach? So then it can again help and support others in their thinking. As well, to maybe normalize that some of the challenges, it's normal, it's okay, because we are human at the end of the day.

And yeah, and don't worry, everyone listening, we will put a link to Sofia's podcast in the show notes as well, because I think lots of people are going to be super interested in those conversations, even if MCC is not on the radar immediately. I think just these stories of people who are achieving, you know, these difficult and you know, quite inspiring things as, as coaches, I think is amazing. So if you were talking to someone starting out their journey as a coach, what tips would you have for them about what it means to be in business as a coach?

Well, it's challenging. It's difficult. It's also fun. Yes. Being community, don't do it on your own. I think Reach out for help, educated help. I think like don't scatter yourself, try to focus on one thing and, but then research that really well. And of course it starts with the coach training as well, that do your due diligence, meet with coach, meet, because I hear this as well, that this is more specifically for the MCC that coaches told me, oh, I mean, I researched, I reached out, you know. And then it was two coaches offering mentoring and I've never seen one of them. Or, and, or I've done an interview, I like the person I've done the interview with, it turned out that that person is not involved in the program. And then I ended up being with somebody I never met and I didn't gel with potentially or didn't have that rapport that I had. So it's always, don't find out the hard way, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So, and even there is a lot of level 1, level 2 courses and But also, I think even if coaches are reaching out to me exactly like, where shall I enroll? How do I know what's good for me? It's like, think, imagine yourself in the future, like 5 years from now. What are you doing? Who are— what's your niche? Who are you surrounded by? Because that can sort of support you in identifying which training course. Like, one is most focuses on around faith, the other focuses more on leadership, the third one might focus on life coaching. And yes, at the end of the day, coaching is coaching, it doesn't matter in a way. But all those small nuances that who do you want to be, your community to be, in the long run does help and make a difference.

Absolutely. No, that's a really great tip. I love that. Zsofia, just to wrap up, I want to ask you a few rapid-fire questions, if that's okay. Speed round. If you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be?

I know you sent me this question and I don't know. I thought about it and I don't know. Fair enough. Because most of the time I coach clients I never thought of coaching, and they are the most amazing humans to coach. And I have returning clients and they said, yeah, we were together 6 months ago and I had another chance with the company I work for and I wanted to work with you because it worked and I don't want to sort of try another coach.

I feel like that is a very evolved MCC answer, Zsofia. Very, very good answer. Um, it wasn't like, yeah, Beyoncé, which I think a lot of us who would like to coach, but no, very good, very good.

All right, I'm sorry. Yeah, it might not help, but I don't know, like anybody who is willing to be coached, willing to develop themselves and go through those challenges, I mean, that's the ideal client for me.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, next question. What is a podcast or a book that you would recommend to other coaches?

I like two Apart from your podcast, of course.

Thank you. And your own.

I like to listen to Damian Goldwarg and Janine Bailey. And Damian is now doing a podcast on Leader as Coach along with his book. And Janine is, she coaches, or sorry, she talks with leaders from all walks of life and offers a podcast on a wide range of topics within the executive coaching space. And yeah, I feel inspired by, by them and their podcast and how they are showing up as podcast hosts, as as well.

And excellent.

Yeah, that's great. I'm sure there are much, many more as well.

Oh, you know, infinite. And what is a tool, or could be a piece of software, that makes your business life better?

I use Circle for my program, and it's been a big easy— I find it easy. Some of the students are struggling with it, so I have to revisit that. But it's really, yeah, similar to Kajabi, but it doesn't come retain everything in a way, or I haven't made that decision yet to, uh, transition everything there. But for the, the learning aspect of the program, I use that.

I think that's a great idea. And I have looked at Circle and I think it looks great. So for people who are hosting content, like learning videos and things like that, that's a great tool.

Yeah.

Thank you. All right. Well, I, I, I had better wrap up. I feel like we could talk forever, but yeah, it has been an absolute delight. What is the best way What's the best way for people to connect with you?

LinkedIn.

LinkedIn. Okay, perfect. We'll put that in the show notes and we'll also put Zafia's podcast and her website. And so if you are a PCC looking to train towards MCC, make sure you look her up and otherwise just connect with her because she is a great person to be connected with. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. And for everyone listening, I'll be back with more next week.