Ep 14: In conversation with Hector Hughes

Foreign welcome to the All Is Wellness Podcast with me, Emma Naylor. Join us in open and honest conversations with wellness professionals and industry experts. Welcome back to the All Is Wellness podcast. This week's guest is Hector Hughes. Hector is the co founder of Unplugged. After a burnout in 2019 whilst working for a tech startup in he spent some time at a silent retreat in the Himalayas. Upon returning from his life changing trip, he decided to quit his job a week later. He then went out to co found Unplugged, a startup providing a digital detox at an off grid cabin an hour from city life. Hector, thank you so much for coming on our podcast this week.

Emma, thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to be here.

I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you're doing at Unplugged, why you started it and how, how everything's going.

For sure. For sure, yeah. So to kind of start from the beginning, I used to work for a tech startup actually with my now co founder Ben. So he was the first employee. I was employee number four or five and we did the whole, you know, international expansion, opened offices in the US and Australia and Ben left in 2018 and in 2019 I just got a bit burnt out with all. It was kind of, I was running growth at the time, lots of flying around the world and there was that and you know, managing a social life in London and just, just got a bit dissatisfied with it all. And as you said at the beginning, on the recommendation of a friend, I went to a silent retreat in the Himalayas in September 2019 and it was spectacular. It was this kind of Buddhist, so really, really spectacular. And the best thing about it was when you got there, they took your phone off you and you were just cut off from the outside world for 10 days. So came back from that, as you said, quit my job a week later, which I know is very cliche, and was having a drink with Ben. Now Ben's not the kind of guy you'd find at a silent retreat anytime soon. And we were talking about how, you know, there's still a lot of stigma around retreats and meditation and a lot of the benefit is just getting people off their phones and into nature. And we'd heard about this tiny house movement in other countries, so there's a very well developed ecosystem in the US and Australia and just thought that would be a fantastic vessel to do something. So the basic concept is we put cabins an hour from city life, then when people arrive, they literally padlock Their phones in a box. We give them a map and a Nokia and leave them to. So, so that's, that's, that's what we're doing. And we launched our first cabin. Got really lucky, actually. We, we ordered it just before COVID and so it was being built during the first lockdown. We got it in June 2020 and we're ready to. To launch when the government lifted that lockdown in, in July of last year. So had a fantastic response, lots of free publicity and we were kind of fully booked through the winter and now it's about just scaling up. So cabins two and three launched. Y. Thank you very much. And we have cabin four on track for kind of ending May, early June. So really full speed ahead.

Wow. I mean, first of all, congratulations. It sounds like it's growing at such a good pace and it's so interesting because they always say the best business ideas come from something that you've kind of been through and wanting to solve a problem. I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to just kind of stop their lives and go to the Himalayas, unfortunately. But if you are able to do it for a weekend, I feel like it would have such, such a benefit. How are you? What kind of feedback, sorry, feedback are you getting from people? You know, we've been at home for the whole of lockdown. How are people kind of finding. Going again, going off the grid and kind of locking themselves away?

Yeah, it's been amazing, actually. We've had a wonderful response. Our last company, the tech company, it was point of sale systems. And people famously hate their POS because either you're not thinking about or it's ruined your whole day if you're losing orders, that kind of thing. So this has been an incredibly rewarding business just because, you know, people really, really love it. So we had all sorts go wrong in the early days, but people were very forgiving, which is nice. And we do get a lot of people quite anxious before they come, quite kind of nervous about going offline. But then over the three days, you know, people actually look visibly different. So we check in and check everyone ourselves. They look visibly rested after three days offline. And some of the, some of the big insights, I think one of them is people just saying that they realize that the world doesn't end. Right. Because I think we, like, especially now running a business, like we all feel like, you know, we just can't take three days offline. Like it just seems inconceivable. Right. Like, you know, all these things going on, but, you know, you always, always can. I know, you know, sometimes it's a bit more complicated with, with childcare and these kind of things. But, but, but certainly with work, you know, it's always. The world really doesn't end if you go offline for three days. And I think that's a, A big realization for a lot of our guests.

Yeah, and I think it's, I think it's a very interesting shift because I think, you know, coming from, coming from a sales background in a, in, in corporate, for me, you sort of rewarded your employees by these holidays, these kind of big nights out, you know, everything kind of drinking and partying fuels. And now I think actually people see a good thing as putting their phone away and kind of going to the countryside. So it's really interesting to see how it's sort of done a massive, massive 180. So you said, obviously before you kind of had a burnout, you ended up going to the Himalayas and quitting your job. How, how was that transition from going from being fully burnt out to actually going to a silent retreat? How did you find that? And what sort of stages did you go through while you were almost detoxing from real life as such?

Yeah, for sure. So it really was the culmination of kind of, you know, quite a few years. I. To kind of go back a bit further. I was always, you know, as a, as a teenager and a young adult, I was, you know, used to, used to drink a lot, go out a lot, you know, take. Take a lot of drugs, that kind of thing. And that, that was just what I did for a decade. And you know, in hindsight, it was kind of like I was, I was living someone else's life. Like it was always just because I was, you know, really a yes man. So I just kind of went along people pleaser, just kind of went along with everything and I really wasn't living life on, on my terms. And then I got this job at this startup just out of, out of university. And you know, obviously with that startup growing, things started to get quite exciting. And so for the first time in my life, I never really worked at kind of school and, and university. So for the first time in my life I was actually kind of, you know, getting stuck into stuff. And then I just really noticed this, you know, the, the contrast or just how much of an anxiety the, the kind of big nights were. So it became more and more of internal conflict. And then in 2019, everything just kind of came to a head and got, got kind of Quite, you know, stressed out and, and burnt out. I'd started meditation around the same time. So I was doing again I just heard that it was, you know, had all these people talk about how life changing it could be and thought, you know, I've really got to get started with this. So I was using Headspace for a few months and you know, headspace has these kind of 30 day courses of 10 minutes a day. And some months it would be really good and I'd get really into it but other months I would, you know, find a bit of a hassle. And then I heard about transcendental meditation and just thought I'd give that a go as a four day course and it's 20 minutes twice a day ongoing and I did that and it just completely stuck. So that was, that was July of that year. So I kind of cracked the meditation that the silent retreat was, was three months later. And so I was kind of already starting, you know, starting to kind of make these fairly massive life transitions. And I think the, the big, the big thing that really hit me so the retreat was, it was called Intro to Buddhism course. So now but I do definitely see a lot more value in it off the back of the retreat. But so it was half, half Buddhist philosophy, half meditation and the real big thing that hit me on kind of day five. So the first few days I was, you know, this is nice but nothing, nothing life changing. And then we got onto the, the Buddhist Buddhist idea of attachment which is basically like I need this, you know, I need this to be happy. And that had just, had just kind of defined my whole life up until that point. And I think a lot of my burnout at that point was, was a dissatisfaction and it was like, you know, I need to, I need to, you know, I was thinking go and try and do an MBA or something like that. I was like I need this next thing to be happy. So that was a real eye opener for me. And I came back very kind of just liberated off the back of that I think I felt, you know, empowered to kind of do, do anything actually. I didn't come back intending to quit my job, but two days after I arrived back we were trying to raise the startup was trying to raise a 10 million Series A literally two days after I arrived back that fell through. We had to let go half the company and close our offices in the US and Australia. So marketing spend. So I spent a week twiddling my thumbs. I obviously had, you know, I was very kind of in a great mindset after the retreat. And. And yeah, so it was kind of a bit of a perfect storm, and that was really the push I needed to quit and tackle. Tackle this with Unplugged.

Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting listening to that story, as you kind of say, the perfect storm as such, because I often feel that, you know, there are all these things that we want to do. You know, there's often things that we want to do, but we kind of feel like there's things stopping us. And maybe if that company had gotten funding, maybe you would have just stayed there and just grown that company and not kind of done your own thing. And I totally get what you mean, that kind of dissatisfaction. I mean, when you were talking about going out partying and drinking and taking drugs. I mean, I've been sober just over four years, which is crazy to even say that out loud, but it's sort of one of those things where I was never satisfied. And then when I stopped drinking and going out and partying, it kind of felt like I'd lost a lot of my identity. And like you said, it was, do I go and do an mba, Do I go and study? And I took up every single hobby you can imagine, but I didn't do the one thing which was like looking inwards. And that's. That kind of sounds like exactly what you did when you went on that retreat. You kind of got to look inwards and actually say, all of the external factors are not going to make me happy unless I look inwards and figure out what's going on.

Yeah.

So I think it's always a really, really interesting. It's a really interesting story of how you kind of get to where you are. And as I said, it's sort of a blessing in disguise that, you know, none of that worked out because you probably wouldn't have been building this amazing company so far. You would have sort of been building, as dare to say it, someone else's dream, someone else's business. So it's always a really interesting, interesting way that the universe always kind of gives you exactly what you need exactly at the right time, for sure.

Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think it's such a fine margins. Like it really is, as you say. Like there were so many scenarios where I, I didn't come and do this, and now in hindsight, it seems like the most obvious thing in the world. And, you know, I just feel so, kind of fulfilled and so much joy every day with what I'm doing now. But, like, there are you know, it certainly didn't pan out like this. And you know, I could, I could really. Interestingly, like, you know, people ask were you always going to be an entrepreneur? That kind of thing? And the answer is, is no. I, I did a math degree at uni and kind of half assed job applications and I got to the final stage in, in four. One was teach. First one was high frequency trading job, another one was an accounting firm and then there was the startup and I, I, the first three I didn't get and then I got the startup and that kind of normalized entrepreneurship for me over the next three years. And any of the other jobs I would now be an accountant or I'd be a teacher, or I'd be, you know, a trader. And it's just a completely different life. So it's really interesting how our lives hinge on these, these kind of little moments. And that's why I think it's so important. You know, there's that, that saying you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with and it's that and it's also the content you consume and you know, just all these things. I think the more you surround yourself with, you know, just things that resonate and you know, kind of where you want your, your life to go, that's how you kind of encourage this, this serendipity and you know, steer your, your life in the right direction.

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I think it's, it's interesting. You just kind of, you kind of touched on content there and that was sort of the next thing that, that I wanted to talk about. I saw one of the stats that you put out that said 80% of people check their phone within 15 minutes of waking up. And unfortunately I have to raise my hand and say 15 minutes is a long time. Soon as I'm, as soon as I'm up, my alarm goes off on my phone. I, look, I, it's, it's sort of like a natural habit to kind of consume content. And actually something I did not too long ago was I kind of put timers on my phone to not look at Instagram, but I found myself snoozing the buttons. I found myself kind of constantly doing that. How do you think that's affecting people? You know, social media, kind of during the lockdown and the content we're consuming, how do you think that's affected people's mental health over the last kind of year or so?

Yeah, I think it's huge. I mean, we're basically what's happened is we're just in this constant state of overstimulation. So as soon as you pick your phone up in the day and check these platforms, then you're kind of flooded with, you know, all these people, all these things happening and all these kind of anxieties that just completely clutter the mind. And you know, we're not built to as humans, we're built to, you know, live in tribes of 150 people, you know, hunter gatherers. And we're built for these kind of tight knit communities. And now with social media and the Internet, which are both great, I think, you know, that they've, you know, really made so much possible. But we're now exposed to literally billions of people and that is, that's overwhelming. You know, you've got so many people to think about and dynamics to think about and the kind of stresses and worries of everyday life. And you know, we just, we just don't spend any time unplugged anymore, basically. We just don't spend any time offline. And interestingly, because I've obviously done the experience, the kind of three day digital detox that we're doing and it takes about a day for the mind to settle down. So for the first day you're actually a bit more anxious. You kind of feel like you've, you've lost a limb or something, but, but then you just get this real kind of sense of calm and it feels a bit like magic. And you're like, you know, why am I so calm? But, but that's our natural state, you know, like we're not, we're not built to be, you know, chronically stressed. That's very much a bug of the 21st century. And so it's, and I think again with like happiness and all these things, like we very much look at it through a frame of like, what can we add? Like if I get this car or this, you know, raise, then I'll be happy. But so much of it is about taking way and you know, actually again I'm a little bit cautious saying this due to the kind of mental health problems around today, but we are, we are innately happy. Like if you look at native tribes living today and in the world like they're happy, you know, that they don't have this, this kind of chronic stress. So that's very much, you know, a product of kind of life today.

Yeah, and I think, I think that's, that's really interesting that you kind of spoke and said that you've done that digital detox because when I first came across you, you guys, and I spoke to you about what you were doing, the thought of putting my phone away like made me feel very anxious. And it's interesting to say we're going to take your phone away to make you less anxious. And in my head I was thinking that's going to make me more anxious. And I think it's interesting because I get very annoyed with people when we're kind of sitting at dinner and they're on their phone. And I'm pretty sure I do. Well, I do exactly the same thing. Someone will message me and I'll pick it up and you know, my boyfriend is the first to call me out on this. That says you spend the whole time messaging people saying you wish you were with them. And then when you're with them, you message other people saying you can't wait to see them and go make plans with them. And it's, it's so true. We just want to be, we're so available. And something that someone said to me the other day was, wasn't it strange, you know, when we used to have MSN messenger and we would always say to people, be right back. Now we don't have to say be right back because we're always available. And I was thinking that's so scary that even if we go to the bathroom, people don't even know because you're just whatsapping. You bring your phone with you. Whereas on MSN it was like my computer is attached with plugs to the Internet box that's plugged in and I can't take it with me. Whereas now there's never any be right back. It's just I'm always here. So it's really interesting to see, you know, how it's changed. You know, I feel very old saying this, but how it's changed from even having kind of dial up Internet to now having Internet with you 24 7, wherever you are. So it's interesting to see kind of taking away what's become normal and putting people back in what is our natural state of not being with our technology and kind of almost having to detox from something that isn't normal. It's such an interesting paradox of ideas that doesn't really make sense, but it does make sense at the same time.

Yeah. 100. Because I think that's it. It's a like, you know, kind of where we're coming from is it's about reintroducing friction back into life because, you know, and Again, we want to come at this digital detox from a positive spin because, you know, I, I know we can spend a lot of time talking about anxiety and all these kind of things, but actually we want this to be, you know, something that kind of really brings out the, the best in people and lets people kind of get in a good headspace. And you know, because everything nowadays is just like all these, all these big tech companies, everything's about as being frictionless as possible. You know, like Netflix saying next episode playing in 15, 14, 13. Like it's all about just making us mindless. And you know, like mindfulness is, is a bit of a buzzword nowadays but, but there really is so much value in that, so much value in being present. And I think that is it like we're just, we're just so, we're just never present nowadays. Like as you say, like when someone picks up their phone 15 minutes after waking up, like your, your mind is no longer there in the room, it's kind of thinking about what's up to you or you know, that email at work that has just come in and you know, then you're just not there in the moment. And that is really, you know, by kind of becoming mindful, becoming present, that there really is a lot of joy and happiness to be found.

Absolutely. And I think that, you know, there is a lot of joy to be found, but we don't often allow ourselves the space because we constantly feel, you know, that we have to be on top of things. You know, like I said to you in the beginning of this call, I, I moved out of London back in December. I've lived in London for 20, 29 years of my life and I moved out. And even just being out of the city, you know, I say countryside, I'm, I'm 25 minute train from Paddington here. But the difference that it feels is everything's much slower. And I can kind of pick and choose when I go into the city, when I go into the office. You know, even last week, having worked from home for four months since December, I turned to my, I turned to my friend and I said, I feel very overwhelmed. And it wasn't even like I was doing that much, but my body for four months had been used to working at home, used to going on walks, not having to get on the tube, not having to find, you know, something as simple as a parking spot. But I felt like last week I very much overwhelmed myself. And it's crazy how before I'd be waking up at 5:30 in the morning, going to the gym, working a 10 hour day, seeing friends for dinner, going home and doing it again. And it's crazy in 4 months how your body really adapts to like the slower pace of life. And I guess it's sort of the same way with our, with our phones and technology. It's, this has been done over so many years, picking up more phones, more social media platforms, that trying to reverse it is so hard, especially in three days. But it's amazing that after three days only people look better and feel better. So it's incredible. If we actually take that on board a little bit more and say, right, let's start having evenings without social media, without our phones, without Netflix, let's start actually connecting with one another. It would be amazing to see the knock on effect it could have for ourselves, for our friends, for our families and potentially the whole world if everyone sort of took that approach.

Yeah, 100% because I think that that's a really interesting point and you know, it was definitely a lot of feedback we got when we were starting out which is like, well, you know, you can't change your habits in, in three days and actually that's not, it's true, you can't, you can't change your habits in three days. But the, that's not what the benefit is. It's really about changing your perspective. And I think some of the points you were talking about there, which is like, you know, then, then you're thinking about how can you spend an evening off social media. And it's a, it's, it's not a kind of, you know, it's not flip flick a switch or you know, up and to the right and you do a digital detox and you're never on your phone again. It's a, it's a process. But by becoming more aware and just thinking about these things more then, you know, we, over time we start to kind of, you know, regain our attention and you know, I think just finding little pockets in our day, like you say, you know, blocking off the eat like that, you've really again got an alarm clock is such a great investment, honestly because we use our phones for so many things nowadays. Actually you can kind of reclaim a few of those. I bought a 20 pound watch off Amazon, a 15 pound alarm clock and it just means that I don't have my phone in the bedroom over in the evenings. And also if I'm checking the time throughout the day, I'm not putting out my phone because that's the thing, right? You put it out to check the time, but then you end up scrolling through emails or WhatsApp or whatever it is. So kind of, I guess reducing reliance on the foot on your phones is a massive thing. And then it means, you know, if you, if you need to go to the shops and you know where the shop is, then you don't need to bring your phone. You've got kind of 20, you've got, you know, half an hour, an hour just with your thoughts. I know for some people that's not possible. Again, I think child care is, is a big one, but if we're all honest with ourselves like that, you know, we really just don't, don't need it as, as much as we think we do.

Yeah, no, that's, that's so, so relatable, I think. Exactly. Changing those small little habits to having an alarm clock or, you know, I have a watch and I don't ever check my watch. I always look at my phone. So there's definitely a few, a few kind of tips and tricks in there that I definitely need to pick up. I think it's interesting because you went from obviously working for someone and then starting your own business and, you know, having a kind of burnout, which is a very familiar story for lots of people. And I think, you know, I've had conversations with people around. This is during lockdown. A lot of people have had extra time and a lot of people that I've seen have sort of quit their jobs and are starting their own thing. How do you find running your own business and being able to step away from your computer, your phone and go, actually, I need to have a break. How do you manage that whilst running your own business? And can you. Do you think it's possible?

Yeah, that's, that's the irony, isn't it? The. It's, it's definitely possible, but it's, it's, it's definitely difficult as well. So it's. And again, I really do think that kind of less is more. And actually by stepping away and, you know, spending the time offline, you're then more effective in the time you are spending because, you know, running a business, so much of running a business is just making good decisions. Like you can make one great decision that, you know, removes 100 others and actually just being in this kind of constant state of as guilty as anyone. Like, some days will be really good and I'll kind of, you know, do some focused work and kind of limit my time online, but other days I'll just, you Know, check emails early and just spend all day kind of, you know, batting, batting kind of back and forth emails. And there's Parkinson's law that the work expands to fill the time available. And it's so true. Like, we do just create work. Like that was one of my big insights. Looking back at my time, the startup, which is. I had some interesting roles. I started in sales, but I ran product for a year and then I ran growth for a year. And so on paper I did well there. But I look back and I, you know, just the actual contribution I made, it was, you know, like 95 of the work I did, I could have just not done and nothing would have changed. Like, it really just did not move the needle, if I'm being honest with myself. And I think there's just so much fluff in all of the work that we all do, you know. So, you know, it really helps to find these pockets of space to get offline, to see that, right, to kind of refocus and realize what's actually important with running the business. Because there's, there's so many things going on day to day, but actually there's probably only one thing that you really need to be doing right. And everything else is it's just a. You procrastinating and a distraction. So. So yeah, I do think. And it's just about. It's just about setting boundaries. It's about setting boundaries. Your colleagues. So me and Ben have a, you know, we really try and support each other with this and kind of, you know, give each other that, that kind of space. You know, I think there's just no need to be, you know, pinging your colleagues emails on a, on a Sunday evening or whatever it is. Like you can always schedule it for Monday. I think the, the tough thing to reconcile and something that's very front of, mind me at the moment is we are a hospitality business and like we. There are guests in the cabin all the time. And obviously me and Ben are on support at the moment. You know, thankfully there isn't a whole lot of stuff to do. But like, that's a tricky one. Have, you know, four, five, six cabins this summer. It's a lot of, it's a lot of, you know, people and potential things to come up. So I haven't quite figured out how. How we deal with that. Right. How. Because, you know, as you can probably tell, I'm. I really do value kind of that time offline. But, you know, if people are in the cabins, they need to be able to reach Someone. So it's a, it's an unsolved problem going forward. But I would say it's, it's. I think it's vital for any business to spend that time online. But it's extremely difficult.

I can imagine, because I think that, you know, there is this massive, massive concept. And I think that as I said, you know, there's so much stuff coming out of COVID which has been really good. Obviously it's been awful and there's been awful things happening and you know, all the deaths and everything that's happened has been so hideous and really kind of had such an impact on the world. But I think there are also a lot of great things that have come out of this. And I think it's, you know, trying to find a positive spin on something that people have realized that you don't always have to be available to be working. And I think there was very much this concept of when you were in the office, you know, coming from a corporate background, it was sort of, you know, be seen in the office, come in early, stay late, even if you're not doing any work. Just being there showed that you were kind of making an effort. And now, you know, with, with what I'm doing and all the projects I'm working on, I very much just set myself targets and once I've them, I don't find more stuff to add to my to do list. Because I think, as you said, we often create work to make ourselves feel like we're doing more. And it's such an interesting concept that, you know, we find it very hard to switch off from work because there is so much content around there that sort of like, have your full time job, have a side hustle, have your hobbies, have this, have that content constantly, be working, make lots of money. And no one ever talks about just chilling for a bit and just relaxing and just, you know, in the evening. You don't have to be working on your side hustle. You don't have to be working on the non profit business that you want to start. You don't have to be seeing friends. You know, I still find that I have a lot of guilt if I have an evening off and I sit there with my dog or with my cats, just chilling and watching some awful TV show on Netflix. Because I kind of feel like I should be productive in my time. And that's something, something I'm definitely working through and kind of allowing myself, allowing myself this downtime because I think it's so important because when I do Allow myself that downtime the next day. My productivity is so much better, my head is much clearer, I eat better, I make more of an effort to do things that I like. I feel like I'm in a much clearer headspace, but I definitely, definitely have to allow myself to do that a little bit more.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think we, it's just, yeah, no, we do just all make this mistake. There's a really interesting concept called planning fallacy, which is that we, we always underestimate what's required in something. So, you know, a classic thing is when launching a business you underestimate the costs and the time it will take and all these kind of things. And I think, you know, we all have that daily where we, we, we just always underestimate how much work something is going to be. And so we just, you know, we just end up filling our, filling our diaries. You know, whenever I've got a clear calendar, then I overcompensate by fitting stuff in. I think a bit of it comes down to a kind of insecurity as well. And you know, a bit of a, I think, you know, imposter syndrome is such a big thing nowadays. And I, you know, the startup for example, like, I wasn't particular, I wasn't very good at any of my roles and so I would, I would make up for that by just being really busy, right? Because then it felt like that was the way I could, I could kind of, you know, succeed, so to speak. So because I didn't have that, you know, real self assurance and that I was gonna crack product or growth or whatever it was, I just kind of throw myself into the work and just, just do more and more work. And I think that especially in the kind of the corporate cultures of today, like that is just rampant is, you know, that people, you know, there's just such a, there's such a kind of focus on just, just as you say, like, see, feeling like you need to be seen to be, to be busy, right? And especially, you know, my, my one of my housemates is, is a paralegal. And you know that that culture is just like ruthless. There's just so much work and just everyone is busy the whole time. And you know, work creates work like emails, sending emails. Every time you send an email, you're creating work for all the people who receive the email and they're going to send something back to you which is, creates more future work for you. Which is fine for the really important things. But we get a lot of rubbish through on Email, and we send a lot of rubbish as well, so it really just does just kind of compound and. Yeah, so there's just this constant slide towards busier and busier.

It's so true. And you know what? When I first started this podcast, the main aim was to have these open conversations. And it's so amazing. You know, something I've noticed that you've been talking through, and I. And I appreciate this so much, is owning the mistakes that you've made and even being so honest about the things that you would have done, things that haven't worked out. Because, again, I often feel that as a founder or as someone who's building something or as someone who's gone through a kind of personal development journey, people think that there's kind of an end goal. And by people, I mean ourselves. We put so much pressure on ourselves to say, I'm a founder of this really successful company, or, I've cracked personal development and now I'm on top of the world. And I think something that's so humbling is to hear, you know, not just yourself, but all of the conversations I've had with people of going, yes, I've done this amazing thing, and yes, I've broken this kind of level, and I'm getting to the next level, but there's always still so much to learn. And I think it's really interesting to hear people talking because I think if this was maybe a few years ago when you were at that company, there's always this kind of front that we have to put on when we work for someone. You know, we always have to say, things are great. And now, as you said, being able to kind of step away and being like, actually, I kind of created more work for myself, and actually, maybe the changes I thought I made weren't actually that influential. I think it's amazing to be able to kind of have these conversations. And I know that. I know that this will resonate with a lot of people who are, you know, either starting out on their kind of personal development journey are sort of stuck at a crossroad or are actually looking to start their own company. But as you said, kind of have that imposter syndrome of not feeling like they can do it. So thank you for being so honest. I really, really, really appreciate that. I would love to hear if you had one piece of advice on anything. It's a bit of a wild one. If you could give you one piece of advice on anything to anyone listening to this podcast, what would it be?

Yeah, it's a Great. It's a great question, I think. Yeah, I think a big one is just, you know, nobody, nobody cares. Which sounds, it sounds very negative. It's actually incredibly positive. And that is that. Well, actually, I'll go with that. Which is, yeah, nobody cares because like, I just used to think so much about what other people would think, but everyone is just so busy worrying about themselves that really no one's that bothered. And it's actually very empowering when you realize that because, you know, things really just don't matter as much as you think they do. You know, we like all of, all of the kind of, or so many of life's constraints are self inflicted and you know, like, each of us at every moment have just so much more possibility in front of us than we can see. Like, life feels very constrained and restricted and of course there are, you know, constraints for some people more than others. But I do think, you know, we all, all have these, we all have these walls up and you know, there's so much to be said for kind of just, just knocking those down and, and realizing that, you know, it. All these things we're worried about, about, you know, what people think and all these kind of things just, just really.

I completely agree with that and I totally get what you mean. It's not negative, it's true. We're so absorbed in our own worlds and in our own mind to even be bothered what anyone else is doing. So I think fear of judgment is something that I'm still working on, I think a lot of people are working on, but I think that is such a good tip for everyone. Hector, thank you so much for being our guest on this week's podcast. I absolutely loved talking to you. I'm so excited to see how Unplugged goes, where it's going, the growth, and hopefully one day I will be able to come and stay in one of the cabins and finally have three days without my phone.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been, been a lot of fun and I, I really love what you're doing with the podcast and we'll continue to be a big fan of the future. Excited to, to see what you do next.

Thank you. If you want to find out more about Unplugged or how you can book a weekend there, please head over to their Instagram, which is at Unplugged Rest and you can find out more. Thanks again for listening to this week's podcast. We hope you enjoyed this week's podcast. Please leave us a review if you did. Head over to our Instagram page, alliswellnesspodcast, and let us know what you think. We look forward to welcoming you next week for more open and honest conversations.