Ep. 36: Navigating the Challenges of Junior Golf with Erika Larkin

Welcome back to another Stay Connected podcast. It's your host, Leo Herrera, the connected golfer. I'm pleased to be alongside Erica Larkin today. She's the Golf Digest Top 50 Teacher in the U.S. number one in Virginia, founder of True Swing Golf, truly bringing a vibrant community of golf, putting it together through events, lessons, clinics. And she's got a lot of value to bring into the golf industry. She's been doing it for a while and excited to get into it with you, Erica, today to hear how you came about the game of golf and how you help people today.

Thanks for having me on, Leo.

Yeah, I appreciate it. So Erica, how did it all begin for you? Where did the journey of the game of golf start?

Well, golf started for me when I was about 8 years old and my parents decided they wanted to try golf at a pitch and putt course in Queens, New York. And, and we started there and very modestly and organically understood a little bit more about golf as we went along with minimal equipment and just trying what we thought we should do. No instruction, no formal instruction. So pretty much self taught as a family for a few years. And then as we graduated to going in the driving range and trying public golf on a regular sized course and eventually getting involved in the Met section, the PGA there in New York and junior golf tournaments. I became a competitive junior golfer in that area and got a college scholarship to James Madison University and played there for four years, Division 1. That brought me to Virginia, which I have really never left. So I've been in the area here for 20 years. I didn't know I wanted to be a golf coach, although I was kind of a swing nerd because I was primarily self taught for a long time and always was looking for self help and finding resources that I could understand the swing better and picking up tips along the way like a lot of folks do today when they go down the rabbit hole of YouTube. Although I didn't have YouTube, I had Golf Digest and I had VHS tapes, but you know, it was, it was a cool journey to get to the point where I recognized I wanted to be in the golf business. I actually started more on the operations side and management and then I got into coaching and became a PGA professional and worked at a few different golf courses in this area and got my roots here, developed a coaching reputation for a lot of women juniors player development programs and started my own academy at a course in Gainesville, Virginia, not far from where I am now. So spent some time building my business and along the way I was really nicely recognized by my section for the work I was doing. So I became like a best young teacher and then section teacher of the year around like 2012, 2014, kind of in that range. And so since then, I really embraced more of the media opportunities that came my way. I started doing a lot more posting and getting more comfortable in front of the camera. So that led me to Instagram, which is where most people have now found me outside of my Northern Virginia bubble. And I've developed a pretty big following there over the last five, six years. I wrote a book and I am now launching my true swing brand. So I'm excited to keep growing and seeing what's happening ahead for me and how I can basically get my message about what I teach to more golfers and help more golfers have more fun on the course.

I love that. I'm so proud of what you've done and grateful for what you've brought into the game of golf. But I want to go down that memory lane back to those junior golf days. I know there's probably maybe a couple of junior golfers listening to this. Looking back, you know, how was that experience for you and what would you have done differently as you were going through that process?

Well, I probably would have liked to have more formal coaching sooner. I think it would have saved me a lot of frustration. You know, there were a lot of really kind and trying to be helpful people on the driving range that would drop me tips because they thought they were trying to help me. And you know, if anything, I chose most of the time to just politely say thanks and not really listen. But there were some times where, you know, I just felt like I was a little bit on an island. So having that support system, having a team around you. My parents were very supportive, but they weren't really golfers. We weren't members of a country club. I didn't really have that environment. I mean, so having access to a great facility, if you're a junior, take advantage of it. Because I would have died to have real grass driving range and amazing short game areas. I had none of that and I still managed to find a way to make it work. So I just think don't take for granted the facilities you have. And if you need help getting to better facilities, you know, ask your local PGA professionals. That's basically what I did. And I was gifted some time to be able to practice at some facilities that I, I couldn't have ever afforded to join my parents. You know, we didn't have the money to join a fancy country Club. But I had some pros that saw potential in me. They saw what I was doing and how hard I was trying to practice. And they said, you know, I could make a call and you could, you know, go to this country club and practice for some time this week. And I just did the best I could to make the most of what I had. So if you want it, you can find a way. You got to kind of put the hard work in because it doesn't come without it. We all know that about sports, but golf in particular is, you know, you have to, you have to do, pay your dues and put the work in. But I think too, I don't know, I think trying to find the most competitive events you can play in is also something that's really important because I was in an environment where they're in the city. At the time, the years that I played junior golf, I was one of only a few girls that was playing and so had. Now it's a little different. There's a lot more kids in the game. But try to play in the best and the most competitive fields you can play in because one, it's going to show you where you stand. It's good to play in easy events and maybe win and boost your confidence, but that doesn't really help your resume all that much. Like, try to play in the biggest, most competitive events even if you don't win. Like, it's better than probably having an easy victory against a lesser field. And so had I known a little bit more of that, I think again, comes back to resources, but we would have probably tried to seek out more tournaments outside of the New York area to play in, to have elevated my level of competition because I just didn't have that many girls that I was playing against. So find a buddy or a friend that you can practice with, play with, compete against on a regular basis. I wish I had had that. I didn't really have that. And also like, seek out the best competition that you, you can find.

Those are really good pieces of advice there. I mean, especially the one where we talked about talking to people like, you know, around you in the golf industry to try to get you an opportunity because, you know, it's such a tight knit world and you know, just by asking, you never know what you can get. And especially somebody that, you know, puts in the work, is working at their game. Like it shows to people that are also in the, in the industry. For you what helped you stand out in junior golf that helped you secure that college scholarship to play Division 1 golf.

I think the coaches saw potential because they knew how green I was, and they knew I didn't have an extensive playing resume because of just, again, the nature of where I grew up and how, I guess, you know, being a city girl, like, they probably knew. I just didn't have the access that I would if I was. Had grown up someplace else. So I think they just gave me the benefit of the doubt that I showed a trend of improving and being pretty green and not having had, like, a lot of formal, you know, coaching and training, they. I would say they probably took a chance on me, but I had to sell myself. Like, I remember making a video and, like, reaching out to coaches. And I was very proactive in the recruitment process because, again, the ranking system and stuff was totally different when I was growing up. But you had to be proactive or they would not know who you are. So I think now, being that everything's digital and all the scores are reported and coaches have a much easier time seeking out players in different areas, it's all available online. Don't just sit there and wait for somebody to call you. You have to reach out to those coaches and make a video and show your personality. And that's what, you know, that's what I did. I think that went a long way because it shows once again, you know, you're taking initiative, you're being independent, you're being responsible for your game. It shows them you want to do it. I think that that's what coaches are looking for. And they don't want to see your parents, like, running the show or, you know, you reading off a script or something. They want to see you and who you really are. So that's what I would say.

Yeah. And those are skills that you can really take on as you continue your career as a. As a golfer. I mean, when you turn pro, you're gonna have to do the same thing to find some sponsors. If you don't decide to go play, you know, competitively and try to get into the industry, you're still, you know, selling yourself. I. I tell my brother, he's. He just turned 18, he's a senior in high school, competitive junior golfer trying to get, you know, a scholarship and a way to get into. To college golf. And I tell him, like, you got to get out there. You got to stand out to these guys and be, like you said, proactive with the way you're, you know, presenting yourself. And nowadays with content and, you know, so many people starting to build their brand, and there's even younger kids now starting to do videos and stuff like that. Like, it's so beneficial as you continue to build your career as you see now, like, you've built a great following and, you know, now it's just like, it's paid dividends.

I wish. God, I wish. I wish Nil existed when I went to school because, good Lord, I mean, how cool would that be? You have such an opportunity to, you know, have a platform and then work with sponsors and things to even monetize your college career if you lay your hand right. I just think it's such an opportunity. And if you can put out to the world that kind of content and that show that side of yourself before you even get to college, it's got to go a long way, I would imagine, beyond the performance of how you play.

Yeah. So, Erica, I also played Division 1 golf, but I struggled a little bit to get adjusted with the whole environment. I played a ton of junior golf growing up, but I felt like that transition for me was a little hard to make. I'm wondering if it was the same for you, and if not, like, how were you able to embrace that and make the most out of your experience in college?

You mean the transition from, like, junior golf to college golf?

Yeah, from. From junior to college.

Yeah. It was a big change for me because, you know, I never had teammates. I was pretty much just playing by myself kind of on an island. And so to have that camaraderie, I really welcomed it and tried to embrace it and use it to fuel my competitiveness, to qualify for the weekly events and things like that. So I liked it. But I definitely felt a lot more pressure from week to week because I wasn't the number one player on the team. So I had to constantly fight for my spot to play. And it was stressful. You know, it wasn't just, like a guarantee that I was going to play every single week. So I don't know, it was definitely different. I think I just. I've always been, like, a taskmaster and very good with, like, time management, so I didn't really struggle with, like, keeping up with all that stuff, but it was more just the constant week in week out of, like, trying to. I don't know, I guess I put a lot of pressure on myself that I, you know, I wanted to play, but the girls were as good or better than me. And so I was just felt like I was always spinning my wheels to try to see if I could get a little bit better to secure a more regular spot. On the roster. That was challenging. And I. I still never gave up. And some years were in months and seasons were like, better than others, but I just kept plugging away. I kept asking for help and I worked hard and, you know, never quit on it. So, I mean, there was a point where probably, you know, I could have, looking back on it, I wasn't again the star player in the team. But that doesn't mean you quit. So you just keep working and try to get there.

Yeah, it's so true. It's so easy to get down on yourself, especially with the game of golf, because it's. You're getting a lot of peaks and valleys through the process, and it's just a matter of how resilient you can be through the process. And I've realized the best players in the world, you know, they're just really the grittiest guys out there. They're out there and they really want it more than others. For you. Kind of what helped you, you know, during your competitive days as a whole, to find an edge on your competition and just to feel prepared as a competitive golfer?

Yeah, I think just for me, practice and knowing I put in the work was my sense of I'm prepar, did the work, I practiced, I made the how many putts in a row. I, you know, got up and down X number of times in a row. Like I should be able to do this on the golf course. I think it's as you build your confidence as a player, of course, that comes over time, but it's hard to fake confidence. I think, you know, you have to go out there and really believe that you can do it. So how are you going to prove to yourself that you know or you think you can do it? Nobody else can do that for you. To me, it was about being prepared, and just all I could do was put in the reps and hopefully have faith that I could transfer that onto the golf course. So I don't know. I mean, I didn't turn pro after college, and for me, playing competitively, I obviously am a PGA professional now, and I have opportunities to play within my section, but I didn't pursue it because I think I just recognized at a certain point that maybe I just didn't have that extra fire or maybe I didn't quite have the. I don't know if it was. It's grit or just the desire to grind it out out there. You have to just really want. Want it. And I think I knew I didn't have it as much as some of the other girls I was playing against. So that's okay. I still love golf. I still loved, you know, playing, and I knew I wanted to be around it. So there's a lot of ways to still be in golf without playing on.

Tour, and that's the beauty of the game. There is truly so many opportunities that are open for us. I have gone down a similar route as well. To me, I just didn't really subscribe to the lifestyle of playing professional golf. I felt like, you know, even though it was tough, I was willing to embrace that and everything. I just didn't feel like it was for me. And sometimes you just kind of gotta go with that and go with what you feel. And like you said, there's so many opportunities that are opening up in golf, and there's definitely many ways that you can venture. So when you made that transition from college over to teaching and everything, how did you go about that?

So I was working for a golf management company called American golf at the time, and I graduated with a degree in marketing, and I got a job as a marketing and membership sales person for three of the golf courses that they managed. And along the way, my colleague at one of the properties was running a Nike golf learning center at the time, and he was really busy with a lot of people coming in with interests. He didn't have enough coaches to fulfill all the classes that he was trying to run, and he asked me if I wanted to help coach some adult beginner golf classes. And that's really where it started, because I enjoyed it so much. It was, you know, once or twice a week for six weeks or something is what I was committed to doing to help him. And I did that. A few rounds of that over one summer, my first couple years working. And I. He knew I was having a good time with it, and we talked about, like, if I should do more, and he suggested I should get my PGA certification. So I then really got serious about what that meant, and I took my pat and I enrolled in the PGA program, which led me to making a switch out of that marketing and sales role into a green, you know, just a greengrass PGA assistant professional. So I moved to a private club and just went in to work in the pro shop. And then they assigned me to help with the junior golf program and gave me pretty much carte blanche on anything I wanted to try to do with the ladies. I was running all the tournaments and the merchandising and the pro shop. I mean, I kind of did all the normal stuff, you know, PGA Pros do when they get into the business and be an assistant pro and an apprentice. So I ran the pro shop as a third assistant, a second assistant, a first assistant. And I was teaching as much as I could when I wasn't in the shop. And I knew that that was where my passion was. It was just a means to an end to get to the certification and then get my membership and eventually teach full time. Was that was that. That was the end goal. And I did that over the course of like four or five years. I finished all my PGA stuff and then transitioned into a full time teaching role at the same country club that I was at. So that was my journey to try to get to like just get my certification, but then eventually teach full time. I mean, there are some people that teach full time right from the start, but I didn't do it that way. You know, there's lots of opportunities to teach online now. There's opportunities to teach without a PGA certification. Not that I'm necessarily endorsing that, but like, you know, there are people do that all the time. And so you can find a way if you feel confident in what you're saying and if you're helping people. The PGA certification is great. It's a wonderful network. There's lots of opportunities and there's education that comes with it, but there's nothing like just work experience. Just getting out there and figuring out like how to teach people how to communicate what works, what doesn't work. I mean, so if you're a competitive golfer, you probably have enough understanding of the golf swing to start and starting. Teaching beginner golfers is a great place because you can pretty much problem solve easy stuff. And teaching elite players is a little bit different because little things go a long way and you don't want to make the wrong decisions with a good player. So I think it was for me very easy to go from teaching the beginners and the women and the juniors at the country club that you would assume are a little bit more on the beginner level to ultimately understanding the golf swing better and better and better and better with all the seminars I went to and studying from other coaches and reading more things and using technology. And so for me it was just very organic that I was pretty much self taught as a coach. Even though I went through the PGA professional program, I didn't work directly for like a top teacher. I was at a country club and I was one of the only few people that were teaching. Nobody ever watched me teach. Nobody. I didn't watch Other people teach. I just kind of went by, honestly, pure instinct, and people liked what I was doing. So I just felt like, okay, I guess I'm, you know, they're getting better. I must be doing something right. Let's keep going. Let's keep learning and trying to make them better and make myself better. So I was just always on a quest for knowledge, trying to make myself the best teacher I could be. I never wanted to be stumped by a student. That was like, my number one fear. I never wanted to get to a point where somebody was standing in front of me and I. I didn't know what to do. That was like my. Or God forbid, I was like, in a. Around my teaching peers and I couldn't answer a question about the golf swing or understand. Like, I wanted to know everything I could so nobody could stun me. That was like, my goal. And so I. Yeah, no, that's kind of like why I just kept learning, because I never wanted to, like, I guess, look stupid in front of a student or a fellow teacher.

I definitely feel that way as well. I'm getting into some teaching here and there, just locally. But I want to ask you this question because I'm now in this transition phase, and I want to know what would be the best way to go about it. Do you suggest most people that are trying to be coaches and everything and get into the industry like that go through the PGA program?

I think it's an amazing network of people that can help you with your career development, meaning that you're going to work for PGA professionals. And if they know you're serious about it, it's sort of like a. I mean, it is kind of like you're making a life choice. You're. If you become a PGA professional, you're probably going to be a PGA professional for life. Some people don't. They leave the business, you know, but, like, it's a choice, it's a track. And so there's a commitment level there where if you're just like, oh, I'm going to teach this year, I don't know if I'm hiring you. I don't know if you're going to be in the business in two years or not. But, like, if you enter the PGA program, to me, that says, like, you're serious about this, you want to be in the business, and then I will, as your mentor, as your boss, like, I would invest in you more because I know you're like, really want to do it. You're making a commitment to education. You're making commitment to your network of colleagues, you're making commitment to your career, you know, your education. And there's financial commitment to doing it. Like you're going to school, you want a degree. It's not just like, oh, I'm just working, I'm going to try this thing, which is maybe again for a while. Okay. But there's a point where it's nice to have a stamp on, you know, a credential of what it is that you've earned and what you're doing. So whether it's a PGA stamp or maybe it's a certification from a teaching certification program, another one that is out there. I mean, there's some great coaches that offer certification programs that I've taken. Mike Adams has an amazing one I did long time ago. Lynn Blake did a certification. There's putting certifications, tpi, Titleist Performance Institute. Like, you can get a really good education on golf, swing, golf, club fitting, you know, a lot of things without necessarily going down the PGA professional route. But I think the benefit is that you end up in a room full of hundreds of PGA professionals at your section meeting and now you can network for jobs. And I mean, that's, to me, how I was able to differentiate myself is I could play golf with these other people. I could, you know, volunteer in the section and get recognized. I was eligible for awards because I was a PGA professional and then because I was eligible for awards and won those awards, that gave me media opportunities. That was my track. And that might be a little bit old school now because there's a lot more ways to get recognized on social media. That didn't even exist when I was literally coming up the ranks of being a 20 something year old professional almost 20, you know, 20 years ago. So it's different now if you can identify and separate yourself in the sea of content because you're really standing out. Online brands might want to work with you and you might be able to bypass some of the things that, you know, I couldn't because I had to network the old fashioned way. I still think there's a lot of value to doing that. But it is a choice that you, you know, you need to make at some point. Do you want that stamp on your business card or not?

Yeah, and like you said, it's a full commitment. Like you can't really just do it and try it for a couple of years and then just hang it up. It's, I mean, you can, but it's not really the way it should be done. And like I like what you said about the network. Cause I mean, you're really getting tapped into to the entire golf industry. And there's just a different ring to it when you have that next to your name, you know, PGA certified.

Yeah.

And in your opinion, what makes a good coach?

Being a good communicator and definitely having a warm bedside manner, but a confident one. Like, you have to have commitment to what you're telling your student to do. You can't be wishy washy. You have to like, believe, believe in what you're saying so that you sell it to your student to do. Otherwise they're not gonna, they're gonna second guess or question whether you even think what you're saying is right. You have to commit to what you're saying. You have to say, really work on saying things clearly and not backing down with then not what, what you're trying to solve, but potentially continuing to dig to find different ways of either saying it or showing it until the student gets it. I think that the ability to find what you want to fix is also going to evolve over time. Like, I'm much better now than I was, you know, 15, 20 years ago. On finding that root swing flaw or issue that I want to solve. I think I, you know, would pick something that was easy to see. Oh, your grip's off or your posture's off. Now there's like a lot more understanding and layers of what? Well, is the grip really the right place to start? Or if I fix their grip, what are the five things that that's going to affect? Like, there's a lot more understanding of the domino effect of changing one thing. And picking the right thing to start with comes from experience and understanding and education and learning from others and trial and error, to be totally honest. I mean, I understand the golf swing at a much deeper level now just because it's. Of all the coaching that I've done and seeing what has worked and what has not worked with people over the years. I've given bad lessons. I've given amazing lessons. You know, I think that the more you work with people truly in person, which is different than working with somebody, like remotely or just doing a random swing analysis. When you see and feel a person's personality, where they're coming from, their history of where they are and the swing changes they've even made or they're trying to make, and you try to wrap that together with what you think needs to change, like it is a big puzzle to solve. It's not easy. There is an Art and a science to coaching for sure. And then I think again that skill set comes over time. But if you are going to say is coaching right for me, I think number one, beyond even that because you can learn that and you can learn to be a better communicator. But I just think sometimes people already have that skill set and that will give them an advantage right out of the gate to connect with their student better. And being not only like a good presenter in the lesson but also being a good listener and reading the student, knowing like when to say more and then like when to hold back and kind of that little bit of push pull with the student of you know, how you lead the lesson versus what they're, how they're reacting, the flow of the lesson, how fast they want to go versus like maybe not going so fast with making changes. Like there's, there's the nuances there that you just get, get over time.

Yeah.

Or if you don't, you're not going to be successful of a teacher. I think reading the student and those, those nuances of like communicating and understanding their like reading the students behavior as you go along is, is huge. There's so many different personalities of people. There's super type A's and then there's people who are like really like analytical and then there's other people that are kind of more like honestly just aloof and they just, you know, they don't know what they don't know. It's like you got to figure out how to adapt like a chameleon to each person because you know, there is really no cookie cutter student. So everybody's different. And you can try to profile golfers and swing types but then layer on different body types and then layer on the different personalities and layer on which sports they played or didn't play. Um, and it's just like there's so many things that you're trying to like negotiate to come up with. This is now what I want you to do like in. And you. And you're supposed to do it in like five, the first five minutes of a lesson. Like yeah, it's definitely. There's an art to it. I, I find it a challenge. Every single lesson I give every person that I meet. Every like group that I have, I have, I do lots of group stuff. You know, I do 8:12 people for gospel for three days. Every single group is different. The chemistry, the personalities that show up. So like you have to, if you're going to do that, it's a totally different game. Than a private lesson where it's one on one or like, today I had a husband and wife came in from Mississippi to spend half a day with me. Like, and they were both very different with their swing flaws. So, like, how do I. How do I equally spend time with each person and get them the value that they came for and also realize that that's not a one size fits all lesson. Like, they wanted a semi private lesson. They had completely different swing issues. So, like, we can't. We, we. I had to sort of navigate how do I create value for the time that they're here in the format that they signed up for. Because for another, for another couple, it could have been completely different. Just depends on where they are in the game. The husband had, you know, has a lot more experience, or if he's a low handicapper and she's a high handicapper, or, you know, they're completely different swing flaws. Like, how do you find common ground to bring them together and make it a good experience? So I, you know, again, I do the best I can knowing how to balance those things. But that's a big part of coaching that is beyond swing faults. Yeah, it's beyond swing faults. It's customer service. Is what is it is what it is.

That's so true. I mean, you gotta be able to read the room, read the individual. But I'm sure there's also the element of you actually understanding, like, your golf blueprint, like, what, you know, the golf swing really is to you and, like, what you've learned over the years through programs and experience and everything. And I want to pick your brain a little bit on that, you know, like, for you, like, what is the fundamentals of a. Of a good golf swing?

So for me, and, and again, my, my sort of coaching philosophy, my method is called true swing. I believe that swinging action solves all problems. You know, people hit at the ball, they manipulate their way through the swing. And the reason a lot of times they do that and they have all these compensations is they either have really poor sequence, really poor tempo, they don't understand how to move energy to create swinging action in an efficient way. They're out of balance, which creates really poor geometry that they now have to compensate for. So for me, you know, I have some key principles that I always kind of come back to, and another one that's on the list is freedom. Are we swinging with a sense of freedom and athleticism, or are we, again, just swinging from a place of, like, fear and manipulation and just maybe over control? So I think for me, it's trying to get people to where they're looking at the golf swing in a simple way. It's a simple pendulum swing is really the basis for my philosophy. And so the physics and the geometry that I work off of all comes back to that in both the way things like swing path and angle of attack get created, and even the way the club moves around our body and how our body gets our arms and the club into motion in the right flow and sequence. All of that stems from how a pendulum would swing. And the golf club is a giant pendulum, and we're the center of that. We're the top of the pendulum. So I can relate everything back to that. That's where I've landed with my teaching philosophy. And I can scale it from putting to short game to full swing. And along the way, the pendulum principles really create the opportunity to have perfect timing, perfect tempo, doing everything in balance, swinging with freedom, because the pendulum's gonna swing perfectly if you let it. And obviously creating and scaling energy to hit the shot you want, whether it's something small and soft or big and far. Like, we can scale it. We can create accelerated models and big swing action that still can hold true to a basic pendulum swinging motion. So I'm fairly old school in that way. And I think some of the influences that I had as a player and then a young coach was old school instruction. And I went back to that to really find for me my roots. But along the way, I've learned a lot about technology. So being able to measure and understand that what I'm saying is, is actually accurate when you measure it is to me, what has validated what I coach. And I can use trackman every single lesson and show you why what I'm doing works, because we are getting the changes on the numbers. But at the same time, like, I could turn trackman off and. And never use it again and be the best. Be the best coach I can be. So I don't rely on technology, but I use it to show change and to validate that the changes we're making are. Are good and to help put the change in perspective. Like, you know, what you're doing is producing this club path. This is your feel, and then we need to make this change. And so clearly now, after we worked for the last hour, look at your club path. See how much better it is, see how much more neutral it is. Like, people don't understand a lot of those numbers, and I don't like to bombard them with it. But there is a lot of times where I will mention certain things that are a little bit more technical just to really prove to the golfer, like, yes, this change is working. And now do you understand why the geometry was like this and poor, and now geometry is like this and it's better. So, yeah, I try to mix the old school and the new school together to create an experience for the average golfer that wants to keep things simple, but also, I think, enjoys a little bit of the modern touch of. And. Oh, yeah, and she, you know, she showed me that my trackman numbers were great.

Yeah. So I'm so glad you went down that route too. Cause, I mean, it's such a simple way to approach the game. I was hoping you weren't going to talk about all the different swing positions we have to go through to make sure we hit the ball right. Because, you know, when I was growing up, my dad taught me a lot of the game. I ended up working with Jim McLain for like, five years, and he also simplified it for me. But I have always been taught about pendulum and tempo across everything. And my dad learned the game through just a book, and he happened to be a 4 handicap and played pretty decently. But when he was translating over the game very similar to what you just said, keeping that pendulum with your arms and feeling the tempo of the swing really helped me feel confident as a golfer. And that's where a lot of it lies. Because at the end of the day, you can know all the information in the world, but if you don't truly put it together into something that fits for you, it's hard to translate it and actually shoot lower scores, which is what we all want. What do you feel like really blocks people from going lower than what they. They're currently doing in terms of scores out on the golf course?

Oh, God, a million things, tension. But it could be physical or mental tension. Right. That's like blocking them from having the freedom of motion in their swing to truly swing. They're just trying to steer the ball around. They're. They're kind of hoping the ball goes in a certain direction as opposed to just, okay, let's get ourselves a line. Let's make a relaxed swing. And if we have our alignments good, you know, we shouldn't have to manipulate our way through this too much. So I think tension's the killer for sure. And the mental tension is probably harder to manage than the. Than anything because then that creates physical tension. But for somebody that's out there, that's physically just trying to muscle their shots all the time, even if they are not mentally tense. Like, that's, to me, that's not sustainable for a round of golf or long term, you know, solution to how to play this game. Golf swing shouldn't feel hard to repeat. It shouldn't be like you're exhausted at the end of 18 holes. And for a lot of golfers, they're completely beat up by the time they get off the golf course. They feel like they've gone through, you know, 10 rounds in the ring. It's like, you know, it shouldn't be that way. Golfing should be like a pleasurable experience. It should be like a joyful experience to swing the club. And people don't have that. They do not feel that at all. They're frustrated, they feel awkward. And it, they look awkward, right? I mean, so they're not moving efficiently. They're not moving with flow. They're completely ridden with tension. They're trying to lift the ball or hit down too much or whatever. Like just swing, just swing the club. But that's, there's, there's so much that, that means to me that the average person doesn't understand. Like when I say swing the club, it stirs up like a thousand things in my head. Swing the club is like, there's just way more to that word than what the average person under like surface level thinks about when they hear the word golf swing. Swing is, is everything.

Yes. And I truly believe it all comes down to the way you prepare and practice your way to that. A lot of the things that I feel like most regular golfers struggle with is like not really understanding how to practice the game of golf. What are some tips you can give someone listening maybe that can help them learn how to practice golf better?

I think you have a few modes of practice that are important. One is, you know, feeling your swing and owning that, like riding a bike, you kind of have a feel for your swing and then you won't really forget it. I mean, what does your swing feel like? You have to get to a point where you hit enough balls where you know what that is. Like a dance move. It comes almost unconsciously. After you do it enough times, you're not thinking about the steps. You're just, just, you're just dancing. And then there's like skill building and shot making. And so when you're practicing, you want to try and get out of the box of just the kind of like, I'm just hitting balls, I'm hitting seven iron, seven and seven iron. And like start to mix up which clubs you're hitting, which targets you're hitting at, make it more realistic. That's what we would call like transfer practice too, is how can you make your practice more like play so that you can play more like you practice? They have to be more the same. But the driving range is such a sterile environment that it's not anything like the golf course. And mentally it's not anything like the golf course. We're not faced with adversity. So trying to find and create adversity on the driving range, whether that's like trying different lies, if you have the ability to do that, or at least changing clubs more often, changing targets more often, recognizing what the wind's doing to your golf ball, learning to play different conditions, hitting different trajectories, like pushing yourself to try and hit different kinds of shots on the range will definitely build skill. And then playing a game, you have to gamify your practice. So I mean, whether it's short game or full swing. All right, here's, you know, for my next five drives, I gotta hit that fairway zone out there, and I need to hit 4 out of 5 before I can leave the range. I mean, that's what we used to do when we practiced in my junior golf days. You'd have to kind of complete some task before you could leave. Hit, you know, 33 foot putts in a row before you could leave and go home. It's like when you're standing there and you're on your 27th putt, you don't want to miss 28 or you gotta freaking start all over again. Like, I mean, there you far, you get yourself to a point where you simulate some kind of pressure or anxiety, which is exactly what you're going to feel on the golf course. Find a way to simulate and stir up that kind of energy in your brain, in your body, in your stomach. Like what is going to make you feel that way when you practice so that you can then say, all right now I got to hit the shot, the more you can put yourself in that position and then recognize that you can breathe to overcome that, or calm yourself down, or slow down, or go through your process, or like finding strategies that work for you so that you can hit the shot even when you feel that way, when you feel uncomfortable, still finding a way to go back and recenter yourself physically, mentally and like hit your shot, that's what practice is for. You're trying to practice what it's going to really be like to be out there. And I can't stress enough. Like, if you have the ability to practice on the course, go do it. Not everybody has the ability to do that. But if you have a membership to a club and it's quiet and they'll let you go, run around the back nine and drop balls and play like, hit some shots, pick up balls and go to the next hole and hit, shot like, drop balls in the rough, put balls on uneven lies, put a ball behind a tree, put like, do those things. Because it never fails. When you're on the course, you find yourself in positions where you've never, ever practiced. It's like, then you're unprepared. Then you have no excuse for playing bad because you've never even practiced that shot. So, yeah, you're going to get the experience while you play. But then don't beat yourself up on the fact that you shot, you know, five more bogeys than you wanted to because there were five shots out there that you never practice. Like, yeah, are you supposed, you know, so go practice the shots that you need or that you don't know or that make you uncomfortable and get better at them. Identify where your weaknesses are. That's what we do in business. Where's my weakness and where can I cut costs and where can I improve? Do a SWAT analysis of your swing and of your game and then, you know, figure it out. Go practice what needs to be practiced.

I love it. Those are great nuggets that I know a lot of us can take to, to get better. And now I want to transition a little bit more into. Into the business side and talk about your journey from, you know, now teaching and coaching. But, you know, you got into media, you built your following, wrote your book, you're starting, you know, true swing golf, which is doing events. And can you talk to me a little bit about what your, you know, vision is and what you want to create now and with what you're doing?

Yeah, I think I want to. I'm at a point where I'm trying to figure out how to scale my business. There's only so many hours in the week I can physically teach, and I like making content. I think I've given away a lot of free content over the last 10 years or whatever. So I'm trying to figure out how best I can not only continue to find ways to monetize content, but also to scale my business and my ideas. And that means involving more people. So between hiring a team to help me execute the content side, I also want to bring in More voices to boost the theme. Like, I'm not the only one that's probably thinking this way. And there's other coaches, if they're passionate about the themes that, that I coach that are saying similar things. Like, I want to create a platform that is, I'll say, a safe place, but a place where those voices can be heard. Hopefully, we can get more of the theme message that, you know, I believe in to be said 15, 20 other ways. And we add other elements to this. Like, I'm not a fitness expert. I'm not a nutrition expert.

I'm.

I'm not a club fitter. But I think there's other segments to the golf learning, instruction, playing space that I can add to my platforms that can enhance the theme and bring great messages to the golfers that are interested. There's a lot of golfers out there that are in the same place. They're aging, they're frustrated. They might be battling rehabbing injuries because they're getting older, lost distance. They're looking for simple solutions. Not to say there isn't a younger audience that also is in the same boat, but that's more my demographic right now, and we'll see where it continues to evolve. But every golfer can reap the benefits of trying to simplify what they do. And so hopefully I can. I'm motivated to try to get, you know, my curriculum, my ideas, my messages in front of as many people as possible. So I, from a business standpoint, how do you scale? You, you obviously can scale digitally and try to really push your message out there virtually. But then the other is physically. So that's why I'm doing events in a lot more geographic areas. I'm bringing on coaches through my own certification program and then wanting to see who are those standout individuals that want to be involved with the brand. Which, by the way, I didn't call it. ERICA larkin, GOLF I called it True Swing one because it's the philosophy, it's the culture. But it also is a place where I want to other people to come in and be a part of building that, that brand. It's certainly my idea. I'm finding it. So I'll always be the kind of initial face on or behind the scenes. But I do truly believe that there's other voices and coaches that can help make this be bigger than I could ever do alone. So that's what I'm looking for right now. Whether they end up coaching at satellite locations or we do some cool collabs together, both physically through events or and or content. But that's how I'm looking at this next step in my career and building my business is scaling via, you know, adding people to, to my world, both at my facilities and also when I'm on the road and hopefully beyond the U.S. i mean, I've got a few people interested in doing this overseas in the UK and Australia. So, like Truswing could be truly a global brand that is recognized for simple golf instruction and products and services that relate to that. I want it to be a holistic brand. Obviously, it's true, swing is golf. But to me, to be a balanced golfer, you have to be a balanced human. And so there's, you know, again, health and wellness elements to this that I believe would be a great fit. And I'm looking to round out the brand with those voices.

I love it. You're a leader and an inspiring one. I think that's a lot that people can take away from that. Anything that they do, but also just in the golf industry is very needed to just bring a holistic approach to the game of golf for people to truly use it as a personal development practice, something they can use as a tool to then enhance any area of their life. Crazy how long a golf swing can take you sometimes. And you. Where do you see the future of the game of golf going now with everything that's been emerging with the different tours, with content creation emerging, even the future of coaching? Where do you see it in your eyes?

Yeah, I mean, I have two teenagers and, you know, my son's definitely spent quite a bit of time in the meta world on his whatever, Oculus thing. And like, there's no doubt that, you know, ar Mr. VR is going to be a part of our future. Golf's going to be in that space. And so I'm open to how things evolve. I think there's going to be a lot more near golf experiences. Topgolf's obviously prove that concept and gaming and, you know, all these huge simulator facilities that exist in Asia and now popping up more and more all over the US like the popularity of your five iron golfs and those types of facilities. I mean, there's just more and more simulator and virtual golf. The amount of my students that have simulators in their home is just. It's unbelievable to me now, like how many people have golf in their house or a putting green in their, in their backyard, even if it's like little. I mean, like, so many people have golf now in a way that you can lay without the traditional concept of like going to a country club. There's always going to be a place for that. But like there's a lot more ways to consume golf now. And the leagues are proving this and even this idea of like stadium golf and stuff, I mean, there's so many different variations that are coming. So I'm open minded. I just people are always going to want to play better. So there's always a place for instruction and AI and I'm an investor in sportsbox. I use sportsbox sometimes with certain students when it makes sense. AI is an interesting component here. Will a traditional golf coach be displaced at some point by AI? Possibly, but there's always nuances to working with somebody in person. I mean, it's like if you need a doctor, they can probably, at some level the AI doctors of the future will be able to say here, what are your symptoms? Well, this is probably what's wrong with you. But there's something about the confidence of going to a physical human and them putting their hands on you and seeing truly what's wrong. I mean, for me, there's a big difference between doing a zoom lesson and an in person lesson. It is different. It's better than nothing to do a zoom, but like just being with a person in person. I guess maybe if Mr. Arkansas VR gets to a point where you really feel like you're in the person with that you're in the room with that person, maybe then it's different. But the AI stuff's really interesting to me. I mean, even when I think about scaling myself, is there a way that I can take all the content that I've done, all the philosophy stuff that I've written and feed it to AI and come up with an Erica Lurkin true Swing Coach clone that would basically problem solve your golf swing automatically? Like, the answer is probably yes, but that AI Golf coach can't give a three day golf school in Arizona. So there's going to be those life experiences that are always going to be human experiences. And the camaraderie that exists when you're really on the course. I mean, that's what we probably want to lean into is what are the experiences that you can't get online that you can only get on the golf course, the real golf course, like really touching, really real grass and like what that really feels like. And taking a real divot is not the same as what it feels like when you're hitting off AstroTurf. It's just not the same. So there's always going to be a place for real golf. But I'm realistic to the fact that more and more is going to be living in the meta world and I want to help there too, whatever that looks like for the next generation of golfers that are really, that's their norm, that's their, that's their reality, that's more like the normal for them. And I'm totally open minded and would love to be a leader in that space if the timing is right for my career.

Yeah. And I feel like AI can definitely automate a lot of those things. Like you as a creator, still building the concept, having the philosophy and then feeding it into an AI, it can automate the process and make it more affordable maybe for a lot of other people. But at the end of the day, we live in an experience economy and now experience is truly do bring the value in people and like they people are paying top dollar to, to have the real experience and I don't think that's going to go anywhere. I think that's just going to be even more and more valuable as time goes on, especially as AI and all these stuff starts to get integrated. So I feel like it's a very exciting time to be in the golf industry and be a part of what's, what's going on. I'm excited to see it and I'm so grateful for, for people like you in the industry that are adding a ton of value into the game and I'm learning a ton from. So thank you so much. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us before we wrap up?

No. You're doing great. I think you're a really young, smart guy and certainly wise beyond your years. From what I can tell, your content's great, so keep doing what you're doing. I'm a fan, I'm following your journey and hopefully we'll get you out to one of our events one day. Maybe we can do a little collaboration, but I mean, as far as, you know, people watching. If you're interested in learning more about what I do, just go to truswing.com, you'll see all the stuff or follow me on Insta, whether it's at the Truswing handle or Erica Larkin Golf, you can all end up at the same place and see not only the instruction that we've talked about here during the show, but the different things that are coming in the future. So hopefully we'll get. If you're looking for simple stuff, that's where to find me.

Yes. Go give her a follow and stay connected, guys.

All right. That's right.