Player & Coaching Development with PGA Player of the Year & Troon Director of Player Development

Foreign. This is episode nine of the Coach Mo Golf show. And I'm very, very excited to have not one, but two special guests with me today. To my left here, Stephanie Connolly is Worth. She is a teaching professional down the road here at San Jose Country Club. Phenomenal player. We're going to get into that and then also have Steve Losher, director of player development for Troon. So first of all, I want to thank you guys for being on the episode. It's awesome if I had just one of you. But to have you both together is, it's, it's really cool.

Thanks.

Thanks for, thanks for having us.

So, and you know, what brought us together is this past week Stephanie and I were in attendance of the Troon Southeast Summit which Steve put on. And there was tremendous amount of education and great guests on the show. I mean, you know, recently recognized 2023 PGA teacher and coach of the Year Joe Hallett. We had Erica Larkin, we had Sportsbox 3D, Kevin Kirk. I mean, just a lot of big names thrown out there. So Steve, you put that together for us and that was just a really cool experience. I wanted to thank you for that. You know, the reason I wanted to really have this episode is that that whole thing was for coaching development. And one of the topics that I think being that we're in the golf industry where as whether you're a teacher, a coach or a player, you're there to develop and improve your skill set, you're there to improve your performance. And so I just think this episode, you know, we're going to focus a lot on development and want to really kick off the episode with a huge, huge congratulations to Stephanie who was just recognized by the PGA as 2023 Women's PGA Player of the Year. I mean that is amazing. Like really, really cool. And just like knowing as a player myself and how challenging it is especially to keep your game so sharp post college, I mean, while working a full time job and helping all these other players. That's very impressive. So you know, tell us a little bit about that and just your experience in that developmental process to get you to that point.

Yeah, I kind of, you know, played golf my whole life and went through college golf and played professionally for a couple years and I've been coaching for 7ish years now and took some time away when I first started coaching and really, really didn't play a ton, a couple tournaments a year and decided I was going to rededicate myself. You know, I became a PGA member and there's opportunity to, to play And I really missed it. You know, I always enjoyed the game. And when I got into teaching full time, it was like, like, okay. I really feel like it keeps me connected to my students, you know, especially tournament golf and, and trying to get better. And it's like, okay, I truly know what you're going through because I'm working on things. And so it's. It's been, it's been a really good journey. It's definitely. I've found, you know, some new motivation in myself and, you know, that competitive side, the, the grit is. Is in there and, And I enjoy it. And it's, it's definitely helped my coaching. Sure. I've learned more about the game itself and trying, you know, and trying to improve my skills and, and kind of learning why I'm good at certain things and why I'm not so good at other things. And I think if you have to be constantly trying to get better, whether it's, you know, my own game or my game to try to help my students, I think, you know, that's part of why we go to the summit, you know, Sure. I want to be a better coach. And it's all part of. Of the processes. You have to be constantly working to get better. Right. You're always trying to learn more tools in your toolbox, as they say.

Absolutely. And, you know, everything you said there on point and just that wanting and that yearning to you, you're not complacent. Like, you got to recognize, okay, like, I've had some successes, but I can't stay there too long. How can I get better? And, and as a coach, that's so important, especially with technology and everything that is constantly evolving within the game and surrounding it. Like, if you're still doing stuff from 20 or 30 years ago, there's. You might be missing a few things here and there, but it's really cool to see that and just like being that we're, you know, you're 20, 30 minutes down the road. I've known you for a long time. It's just, I'm just like a fan, so very, very cool stuff, and I just know how hard that is. So you just respect and appreciate the work that goes into and I think development as a player, as a coach, like you're saying and like what we teach our students. It was funny because today, you know, I pop on Instagram and I'm, I'm a big follower of be champion minded. And I share this post and it said consistency wins because it's not what you do. Once in a while that matters. It's what you do every day. And then I hopped on Stephanie's Instagram and she had posted it like an hour before me. So it's just recognizing as a coach, as a, you know, I'm a former player, not currently active, but even the students were teaching. And Steve, I'm sure for you do a lot of mentorship and coaching for coaches and instructors like ourselves. You know, you've got to be consistent with what you're doing. You can't just do it every once in a while and think you're going to be good at it. So, Steve, you know, if you don't mind telling us a little bit about what you do and, like, how you are helping us coaches and instructors develop, but you have a long history of helping players develop as well.

Yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky. I mean, I have a great job, a great situation. Yes. I've, you know, coached a lot of players. A college golf coach for 10 years and had my own academies, did, you know, did a ton of teaching. Like, everybody, you know, tons of classes and corporate events. Anything you can think of, you know, I've had a chance to do. I don't teach much anymore. My job now is to help you. You know what I mean? That's how I see it. So, you know, we appreciate it. Yeah, the, you know, the more I learn, you know, and I'm in my 41st year of being in the golf business, so I have to learn and adapt as well. I can't just think about what happened, what I did 40 years ago. If I did that, you know, I'd still have a camera on my shoulder, you know. Yeah. The original cameras. Steven Spielberg, you know, things were, you know, I bet it, you know, VHS put in it and have to take it out and put it into a machine and rewind it and, you know, do all these things. So, you know, the point of that is you, you have to just keep learning.

Yeah.

I mean, it's fascinating. I, I, I joke about this, but, I mean, I still have coaches that would be using rotary phones if I let them.

Oh, wow.

You know, Glad you intervened.

Yeah. I mean, they don't want to touch stuff. You know what I mean? They're terrified of, you know, new things and technology, but it's changed so dramatically, you know, over the years. Obviously, we have, you know, trackman and gears and, you know, everything that you can think of, you know, at our, at our fingertips to see everything much differently. It's a lot easier to convey what we're talking about to our students.

Sure.

With this technology. So what that brings us to is, you know, trying to help our coaches learn all these things. You know what I mean? Because there's so many different paths you can go in and, you know, being open minded and trying to find different ways, better ways, more efficient ways, you know, to be better coaches, you know, not only that, but how we run our academies and, you know, what we do for our programming and all the different things that are out there for me, you know, when I go to these things, you know, and we set these things up and we're talking to, you know, some of the best minds in our business. Literally. Right. I mean, just at this summit alone, I think. 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 Coat PGA Coach of the year. You know, teachers of the year were there and they're all different, but they're all very successful. Sure. So one, one thing that's consistent with all of these people is they never stop learning.

Yeah.

I mean, I know them. I mean, they're, they're into everything. They don't take it for granted. They don't just, you know, like, I know it. I don't need to, I don't need to learn anything. I've already. I'm the teacher of the year. But that's not the case. You know what I mean? They're, they're, they're constantly involved with something and showing up for things and, you know, interacting with people and, you know, so I think if anything, that's the message is there. I am. Yeah. They're not top 100 because they're lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're very fun to work in.

I mean, they're, they're involved with everything.

Speaking of putting the work in, you put together a phenomenal group of people in the summit that.

Well, you know, I like to take credit for that. But Tim Mahoney has a lot to do with that. So he's, you know, I'm more of a facilitator. You know, I have a few people I throw in there. What's great for me is that once, you know, Tim, you know, Tim puts a group together and fill it in with a few people that I, you know, that I know, that I deal with. You know, it depends on what's going on. But then once he's got the list together, then I'm working with them from that point on.

Okay.

You know, from, you know, so I'm communicating with them. You know, what they need, what they need, what they're going to talk about how much time they need, what, you know, all those things. So for me, I get the chance to meet these people, which, which opens a whole nother door for me personally. But you know, for my job, it's to learn from them, get information from them. Even get information from the two of you.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm going to take that information and share with other people. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm taking notes and listening and at some point down the road I'm going to be somewhere with somebody and say, you know what, here's, here's a great idea. This is something, you know, I got and you know, from so and so. And if they don't, if I don't know it, I'll find somebody who does, you know, to pass it along. And even like with you, Mo, if there's somebody I know, I'm like, I'm going to reach out to you and say, can you help this person? Sure.

I mean, that's what the golf industry and the networking and the connections. I think that's one of the coolest things about golf is everyone wants to help everyone get better. It's the mission of growing the game. And so, you know, you play a little part in this piece, but that seed, you know, how does it spread and like what, what kind of. With coaching and kids, I mean, the greatest joy is you've worked with them a couple of years and whatnot. And you see, okay, I got a college scholarship out of that or an opened this door. I got this job interview because I, blah, blah, blah, and you're like, that's the coolest part to me about being a coach. And yeah, you're going to have the wins, you're going to have the losses, and you'll have everything in between, but it's, it's that long term connection and networking that to me, I, I've, I really like, I really do cherish that. So.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think just as much as you get to learn something. I, I've never been to one of these things where I haven't learned something.

Right. I know. Speaking of learning, geez. I mean, this cast, what I mean, Stephanie, like this was our, both our first time being at this summit and I didn't even know like a lot. Like these names, you hear them, but you don't know what topic they're going to bring up. You don't know how they're going to go into it. I, you know, I'll go first. But Joe Hallett, obviously being Furman alum, I love that guy, I've had him on the podcast before, and he is just so, like, whenever he talks, like, it's just so energetic. He's so charismatic and it's so educational as well. So you're. You're going to absorb and get lots of different things that you maybe didn't think about or putting it together that way, but in a very entertaining way. And his metaphors, I just really enjoy him. And it's cool. He randomly. Like two days ago, I did get a text from him and he's like, let's do another podcast. So, like, he reached out to me. So some. Somehow down the road, we're going to get another. Get them back on the show. But it's just like, cool. Like, that guy, he just won PGA teacher and coach of the year and he reached out to me, you know, like, that's just the coolest thing to me. Like, that just made my day for sure.

Well, I think what's interesting for. I thought all the speakers for this summit, you know, the. The hour, it goes by really fast.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

They could have. For some of them, they could have just kept going. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They get on a roll. I mean, he was that way, you know, Erica was, you know, super high energy. Dr. Shemp. Same way, right. I mean, just, you know, nonstop, just positive energy. You know, we had David Eadle. He was fascinating.

That was each other, like, you know.

Yeah.

I into him the day after, like Wednesday at the show, and he was standing next to me and I didn't know. And he goes, are you stalking me or following me? And I was. And then I was like, wow, you. Like, that was just so mind blowing. And then he started. I had some questions about, like, the putting and the elbow because, you know, he's very, like, linear and it goes against everything, like the arcing stroke and toe. Like, everything like that's out the window with him. And. But he would explain it and he was like pulling. You know, he checked my arm length and doing all this stuff. And so I didn't even. I don't even know if I told you, but he was. I was just. I was a little test subject at the PGA show. He was doing all his metrics on me. Yeah, but what do you think? What's your take on all these?

It was awesome. I really enjoyed. Joe was really wonderful. Dr. Shemp. Kevin Kirk. It was great having Cheryl go through the. The different with the training aids and things like that. And there were, you know, there are certainly some training aids that you Would have to buy. But a lot of things that you can do with students that they're going to have at home. Yeah. So they're actually going to do drills that give them. To me. It was. Both Joe and Kevin had the plan. Right.

Right.

Like. Like we were talking before we started about, okay, if I'm going to go take a lesson, you know, what am I looking for? And it's, well, I'm. I need a plan. Like, I. This is the goal. This is what I want to do. This is my history.

Yeah.

And. And things that, you know, as a coach. But it's good to have the reminders or to know that, you know, the teacher and coach of the year and the coach that works with tour players is doing the same exact thing. Like.

Right.

I want to get to know you how, you know, understanding a little bit of somebody's background, how do they learn, you know, other sports, you know, figuring those kind of things out that are the best way to help your students get better. You know, it's good to. To understand that something that seems very simple is that important, that that's what those people are doing.

Yeah. I think there's a, you know, several things, you know, having a plan, which was kind of one of the themes of it, you know, as a coach, you know, and that plan is. Is contingent on the student.

Right.

You know, so.

Right.

Student, you know, like, who are you? Where are you from? You know, what are you looking to do? Tell me about your game. What are your strengths and weaknesses? Are there any physical liabilities that we need to know about? I mean, these are pretty simple, really. Not that complicated things.

Oh, yeah.

So. But there's two sides to that. So that's. Part one is like, you know, okay, who are you? Tell me where you're from. You know, that helps because sometimes they're from a certain area and maybe it helps distract them. I do that. You know, I teach if they're having struggle, I know somebody brought it up. If somebody's really struggling, you know, how do you stop them? You know, like, distract them. So I jokingly say, you know, I'll just step right into them. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, they're hitting. I'll just like. Like walk right next. Walk right next to them so they stop. You know, you can tell they kind of like, well, what are you doing? You know? But, yeah, you know what I mean? But it's like, yeah, I don't want to tell them to stop. Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

So I'LL just like step into them, you know, get close to them, you know, like a close talker or whatever. But to stop them, you know. But then I'll say something, you know, if they're from Boston, you know, like, you know, I can't believe the Red Sox traded that guy. You know what I mean? Try to do, you know, like something to get them out. Off, you know, out of that. Distract them purposely. Right. I'm just an example. So that's why it's important to know them.

Yes.

So I mean, like, you know, what are they thinking and how do they think and, you know, those types of things. But also what you'll find that we were. We were doing one of the summits out in Arizona, and actually we had. Dr. Bobby Duvall was there. Okay. Who was the one original TPI guys. And he was doing the physical assessment. So he had a woman there. I think she was a little older, maybe in her 70s or something. And he asked her, like, well, tell me about any physical things. And she went on and she explained it. He said, great. And he had her do some of the stuff he saw. You know, touch your toes and do your stuff, try to do assessment. And as soon as she strikes, she hit a couple, he could tell something was off. He says, well, it looks like you're doing something. She goes, oh, I have like a placement Hip never mentioned it.

They don't, they don't like to. You gotta ask. Yeah, yeah.

She never, she never brought it up and was like, well, that'd be good to know. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, you know, there's a lot that. There's a lot going on there, you know, so it's, it's critical because obviously that person's not going to be able. If you're trying to get them to do something, they can't even physically do it.

Yes.

You know, so. So again, if you have. If you're some kind of a theory teacher, you know what I mean? Or you have. Yeah. You're. You're just. It's just not gonna work.

What was great with golf, mind and body is, you know, they're doing a lot of TPI assessments basically beforehand getting to know your body. And then they did the interview with like, tell me about yourself. And like, let's screw conversation, figure out maybe why some of the things are happening. And the most hilarious one. I can't remember the guy's name. The second Joe to play like that.

That was his only thing.

That's only thing.

Yeah. He didn't care about anything.

Else. No. Yeah. So it's just like. But if he came in and had a bad round, you might, you might think it might have been something going on with his swing if he didn't ask questions. But it could have just been he had to wait 15 minutes on the te. On a show.

That's what got him, right? That's what got him swinging too hard or too fast.

I saw that vein like throbbing with him.

But I think, but I, but it's also, you know, so we have, like I said, so, you know, having a plan, just a general plan period, you know, and it, I don't know about you guys, but I've always done it. I've never thought of it any differently. I don't know, I've never, I've always surprised that people don't. I'm always like, you don't ask them something, you know, like, you know, plans.

Are interesting because I think you need to have them. But I've seen students and players get so crippled by a plan when something goes off track and they have to deviate their plan. It's almost like they don't know what to do because it wasn't planned or mapped out. So I think you have to have a plan, but you, you have to be able to have the flexibility and adaptability that if you're taking off course, like you will get taken off course. Like we know, we don't know how or when what. How does.

Well, I think that goes with, you know, the, the learning type. So as we know, if you're teaching an engineer, it's, you know, it's very step by step and specific and you know, you're teaching somebody that's a music art teacher. You know what I mean? They're a whole different, you know, different lesson. Right? So, so I don't know if you're teaching, you know, some artist, you know, to have some specific plan would, would be a good. I don't mean knowing them is one thing. That's what I mean by a plan. You know, knowing who they are, does that make sense? You know, what, how they tick and how you should teach them. I mean, that's critical. But for someone like that, you know, to have like a ten step plan would be a mistake. Does that make sense? I mean, it's kind of like, well, let's see how it goes and let's work on this. And you know, and you kind of adapt with, you know, how it goes versus other people. It's like we need to have a goal. We have to have Steps and even Stephanie, being the player that you are. But have a question for you. You know, as a college golf coach, you know, I had my players. They were all completely different.

Yes.

Does that make sense? I mean.

Oh, yeah.

That was the arts, right? I mean, I had some players. I had one player. To give you an example. I had one player. Our joke was, how do we get him angry before he went out and played? Yeah, he played very well angry. Right. So. So that was a joke. Like, we gotta get him. How do we get him pissed off? Because, you know, he played well, you know, and other guys, I had to go tell jokes and, you know, in the middle of the round, I had to come up, you know, I'd have bad dad jokes or something. Come up to him and say, hey.

I would have got really aggravated with you.

What's that?

I would have been really aggravated with.

You throwing that joke.

Curious.

Yeah.

Well, I wouldn't do that to you. Do you see what I mean?

I would have been so serious in my head that I needed the joke to take me out. You know, that's.

That was the thing, is to try to figure out, like, who was who and what I. What. What could I do to help distract them or motivate them or, you know, whatever it might be.

Right.

I mean, so that's just the perfect example.

Yes.

You know, I'll give you a story about that, and I'll give you a perspective of it. And you guys being players, maybe there's a couple other players out there. When I was coaching, matter of fact, we were at Kingsmill, you know, for a tournament, and there was a particular hole, par five. I think it's number 15, you know, at Kingsmill. And I'm. I'm with a friend who came. Who. Who just came down for the tournament and just hanging out with me, right? So I'm up ahead near the green, and I can see the tee box, and we're waiting. Our teams are coming through for. For one or two holes, you know, we're a group or two behind them, you know, so I'm kind of laying on the hill, you know, just waiting, right? So the guy says, I think this is. I think this is your guy. And I said, well, that's Rob. He's the number five guy. And I said, well, I said, if Rob is playing well, he's going to. I'm not looking. And I said, he's going to walk up to the tee, he's going to throw his bag down, he's going to take the head cover off the bag and he throws it down. He's going to walk to the opposite side of the tee box. That means he's playing well. I said if he's not playing well, he's going to throw the bag down. He's going to sit on it, on the end of it. So I'm laying there and he goes, he's sitting on his bag.

Oh, no.

So I was able to tell him exactly what each player was going to do when they walked up to the tee box.

Right.

So he told them that at dinner time. And they were not happy that I knew them.

Happy to know their tendencies.

Yeah, they were like, they were not happy that I was like, oh, I can tell you exactly. I can see you three fair ways over and tell you how you're playing. I can see how you're walking, I can see how you're acting. So it became a thing for a while to see if they could not, for me, not figure out how they were playing. Does that make sense? Yeah. So when I'd walk up to them, they'd be standing there and be like, okay, how do you think I'm playing right now?

Yeah, their game.

Yeah.

But it didn't work too much anyways because now I saw you a couple holes ago, you know, anyways. But the point of that is everybody's different.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. You know, no matter what is the players, everybody's different. And that's where they were with the golf mind and body. They were trying to understand it. And like we do at academy and like with playing through performance, it's, it's getting those kind of assessments done prior to working with a player so that you don't have to go through that long learning curve of getting it wrong over and over again. It's just like now there's so many different opportunities to, to learn and understand your player before you work with them. So that right when they show up at the lesson tee the first time, like you're ready to go, which is, is cool and well, and even doing.

Even having the right drills. Yeah. I had a female golfer, I was teach very good and we were working on chipping and when I set up a hole, like a three foot hole, the typical three foot hole, you know what we're going to do? We're going to, we're going to work on and we need to get 8 out of 10 inside the circle. You know, some basic chipping drills. Right. She couldn't get them in the circle. And you're like, okay, this is, this is not good. But if I take the circle away.

They were all right around, they're all right.

So you can't just say every single person I'm going to teach.

Right.

Yeah.

I'm going to put the circle around the hole. There's another very simple example, you know what I mean, of getting to know your students and how they tick and what's the best thing for them versus just having like this is how I do it. So what am I getting to. The plan is not for you.

Yes.

You know what I mean? The plan is for them.

Right.

You know, and that come up with a plan that fits that person, that person's personality, the way they think what they want to get out of it. And yes, of course we know that sometimes what they think they need isn't what they need.

Right.

Need to say that. Right.

That does happen.

I get, I used to get that a lot with advanced players. You know, they were thinking they had. Yes, you guys, you guys know that. Yeah, yeah. You know, or they have a perspective of, you know, I'm not doing this right, I'm not doing it right or no, you're very good at that.

The least open minded. I think you're more inclined to have someone a little more open minded who might not know or understand, but I think as you kind of climb up to the higher level players, they, they are a little more assertive in what they think they want and need. You agree with that as a really good player yourself?

Yeah, I think, I think that, I think the very best. Stay curious. Like I was just talking about what that was. Somebody was talking about like with juniors and can you, you know, seven year old walks up and they're, you know, their little child prodigy or whatever and it's like, okay, well maybe just because their skills are there, but are they going to be that way at 25? I don't know. I mean I think, I think you have to be curious and, and if you, like you said, if you're open minded to. Well, so, and so does it that way. Why do they do it that way? And it works, you know, or, or this drill or. I, I think being, being curious about how things work helps you become better.

Yeah, curious is a good word because I can't remember what it was. I had somebody on the podcast and we talking about that. It was just, you can go. If you're the guy who walks up and down the range and anybody and anything who says something, you're starting applying it like that's just as unproductive as Somebody who doesn't ask for any help at all, or they, I've got this. I don't need anything. So you can go too far on the spectrum the other way, too. So it's. It's about being curious for knowledge. But, like, at some point, you have to commit to a plan with a coach or whatever, you know, a team. Yeah. And. And. And things by your team of professionals before you just like, wow, I saw this on YouTube. I'm gonna. I'm going after it. When it's just like, wow, that really took us off our plan here, you know, so it's just like, there's. You need a little constructive direction from people who've gone down the path, and they're there to help you. And. And they're kind of like, you know, the. The guardrails. Coach Don always says the guardrails. Like, it's like you have the freedom to kind of do this and that, but, like, the guardrails are kind of in place to make sure you don't go completely, like, off draft track.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I think everybody. Once you get to know that person, then your job is to keep them inside that does that.

Yes.

Not let them get out. That's really. To me, that's when you really get refined as a coach, then that's your job. Once you know, that player. If I was working with Stephanie, I mean, here's a player of the year, you know, we know she could play. My job is to keep her on the rails. Yeah, that makes sense. But I've got to know specifically everything about Stephanie. One of the things. So to go with who we had speaking, and I thought it was a great comment he said about it was Kevin Kerr. You know, he's worked with. I don't know how many tour players he's worked with over the years. He said, he goes, I don't. You know, up to a certain point, I never developed a player. Yeah. I service players, and I guarantee you he's doing what we're talking about. He got to know him and wanted to, you know, get through their heads what they were thinking, what their perspective was, you know, all those things. And then from that point on, you know, they're coming to have conversations with him.

Right.

We need to know why. Why they're thinking that way or, you know, how they tick. And, you know, because that's really important. The way Stephanie sees things is definitely differently than mo. The way you see things. You know what I mean? There might be some similarities, but you're certainly not going to hit all the same shots the same way. You know what I mean? And you know how. How your ball fight looks or, you know, that's what I would ask somebody. Like, what do you see here? Oh, I see hitting. Another little fade. You know, I see a little draw. I see hitting high. I see anyone. It's like, I don't know. You know what I mean?

Like, there's many different ways to skin that cat. You can go about hitting a shot different ways, but, like, you're saying you're integrating it to what works with the player, and it's not just their physicality or their swing. It's their thought process and how they go about making their decisions. So understanding that as a coach is huge. Understanding that about yourself as a player is huge. And then I think communicating to the whole team, I mean, that's where. When you start getting a team around you and everyone's on the same page. Now you're really talking, right?

So, Stephanie, since. Since we have you and you're the player of the year and put the pressure on you here, so when you go to get a lesson, what would you be doing? What would your. What would your thoughts like, Hey, I need to go work on X, Y, Z. What. How you go about that.

So typically for me, a couple of years ago, I think I said I kind of refocused. I really, you know, put some more attention into my. Into my game and understanding my golf swing better. And I feel like I've had tremendous improvement there. At first it was, okay, why do I have this mess? I can't figure it out. This is what I've always worked on. I just. I really want to lessen that, and I want to understand why it happens and what do I do to fix it, right? And then it was like, okay, this is going to help X, Y, and Z in my game. And this is the plan, right? Like, I know that I'm going to work on this because I've been playing golf this way for how many years, and I'm not looking to completely change my swing, but I want to understand what I do poorly, how do I do it better, and what am I really good at and why? So that when I get off track, I have a plan like we were talking about to fix myself. Or I have a checklist of maybe a couple drills that, you know, that can get me back to some of my feels when I'm playing really good. I'll even go when I'm playing really well. Okay, let's check it out. This is what I've been feeling. Is this what we're seeing? You know, is there anything that looks like it might be creeping in that, you know. Okay, I need a little attention here. It's not usually just to. To fix one thing. It's always like, okay, let's check in. I want to understand this more. I feel like this thought was working. It's not working right now. Give me a little something else. Let's talk through it. But it's probably a lot of talking.

Yeah.

You know, it's. I, I know how to hit shots, but.

Yeah. And if you have. If you have what you think is off, let's just say something feels off. Very simple. Right. It's like I played the other day. You know what? It just felt off. I mean, I just wasn't hitting shots like I normally do. What do you think? How many things do you get to work on? You know, like, is it one or two things? It's like usually just one or two things. Number one and then number two. How long does it take you. Yeah. To get that?

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, that's a great question. Everybody wants a quick fix. Yeah, it is definitely one or two things. It. It'll typically connect back to something.

And again, that's cause and effect, so to speak. Yeah, yeah.

Cause and effect.

Or.

Or just. I've been doing this for a really long time, so. Okay, we. We've talked about this. I under, you know, I understand, you know, these principles. So just connecting the dots. Always one or two things at the most. Which is really interesting because again, advanced golfer, been doing this for a long time. And you get people that come to you and want to fix seven things at once and.

Yeah, yeah.

And it will take probably, depending on what it is. You know, if it's a. If it's just like the barely off, okay, it's going to take maybe two weeks, you know, or it could take a month or. Or two months to where I'm finally feeling like as I'm playing, it's actually, oh, this is. This is normal. This is what it feels like on the range.

This is trusted, so to speak.

Ah, it takes a long time.

So you say two months. So let's say two. Two weeks. When it's something, it's like, okay, something I'm familiar with. Little couple weeks, you know, I can get that back. If not something I have to like, okay, I really gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go work this out of my system or into my system, depending on. Look at It. So you're saying two, two months. But how many, how often do you practice?

Yeah, I'm, I'm not even really practicing every day like, you know, like the academy kids or, you know, it's, I might, if I sneak some swings in at home, even with, without even a golf club, you know, just, just taking my grip or, you know, if I'm sneaking some, some balls maybe, I don't know, maybe twice a week.

Yeah, I, I remember hearing, I listened to a golf Science lab podcast and I can't remember who the guest was, but they did some sort of study on development with juniors and they said, you know, whatever kind of their swing DNA was established by ages 16 to 18, a lot of those patterns that you're going to see all throughout adulthood. So instead of trying to fight a lot of those things, working with it, I think is important for coaches and teachers to understand and recognize because, you know, the way you might see a swing and a shape, you know, we all kind of have our own look that we like. And if a player doesn't match that, you've got to understand, like if that's different, you're going to teach a 40 year old versus a 14 year old because of where they're at with their body and their skill set and their development. It's, it's not, it's not the same in front of you.

Yeah. I don't think you always have to rebuild. I think you have to get, get golfers to understand, okay, this is what your body does. This is what you're capable of. I mean, if you want to go, if you really want to do that, okay, we've got, I got to get you to a fitness professional. You know, we might have to do some, some different things, but. Or I think if you can get people to understand that their golf swing maybe isn't that bad just because it doesn't look like, you know, tigers or Adam Scott or Nelly. Right, Right. But it can work. And you have to understand why it can work and what you need to do. People start getting better and enjoy.

Yeah. And like I said, when we had, we had at our last summit, we had Chuck Cook, like I said, and he brought up all different kinds of, I call crossovers.

Right.

You know what I mean? Weak grip, strong grip, neutral grip, set up. You know how one doesn't work with the other? I used to call them, you know, these things are lethal. I used to call them like, these two things together will never work.

Right.

That makes sense. So it tells them it's like, okay, this is what's happening. But these two won't. These, these two together are never going to work.

Right, right.

It's like, so now we have a choice. We've got to fix one or the other for sure. And almost like, which one do you want to go with? Because, you know, these two are just, you're just never going to be able to. Yeah, you want.

I would, like, this is, maybe it ties together with all this, but like a seminar I would love to hear like as a coach and wanting to learn more from like somebody who has worked with really high level, like tour players, their patterns under pressure, like, hey, but not just like, you know, I want to see some data and stats. Like, hey, here's the amount of swing, you know, their plane degrees. Change this amount under pressure and see if there's any sort of patterns. Because what players, amateurs, juniors, you know, even college. I mean, like, well, this is what it looks like, you know, in a perfect scenario on a flat driving range with no pressure, you know, sunny, sunny day. But now, like when I'm under the gun and I'm stressed, how do my patterns change? I think that when you understand those patterns and here's what I'm susceptible to, here's kind of what I need to combat that with. Now you're really you. Now you're getting equipped to perform versus just have a nice swing.

Yeah, well, I think that's a learned thing. Does that make sense? You have to really self analyze and not be. You know, I think in Norman's book he called it hero golf. You know, you can't just try to be a hero on every shot and you really have to figure out what that is. And it, sometimes it takes time, you know, just, you don't learn until you're in that situation. And how often are you in that situation now? And it doesn't change, by the way, mentally, whether it's the first time you're ever going to break a hundred in your life, by the way, you know what I mean? Or your first time you're gonna break par. Yeah, it's the same pressure, you know, you're thinking in terms. And I mean, you guys probably gone through this because you're both, I know, shot under par, right. In your life, but that first time is really difficult. Right? I mean, you're two or three under par and you got, yeah, I mean you got, you're two or three under par, you got four or five holes to go and you're thinking, oh my goodness, you know, like. And now that's the challenge, right, that, you know, how do you get through bridge that challenge from, you know, and everyone's done it as well, too, where they're 2 under and they end up shooting 76. Yeah. Because they're never like, oh, my God. You know what I mean? That's the point. It's like, how do I deal with that? You know, how do, you know, what do I do under those circumstances? I remember an example is Ernie Ellis reading about his. His example is that he learned that, you know, he would play this beautiful soft draw all the time. Right. But to anybody who's under pressure, it didn't do that. You see what I mean? Yeah, yeah. The longer shot he got, you'd start, you know, he'd start these little push fades. So what do you think he did at his level?

I think he started playing the push fade.

Exactly. You know, where most golfers are. Most golfers are like, I'm gonna fade the. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna force the push draw.

Yeah, yeah.

And then booking it or, you know, getting big hooks or, you know, obviously pushing it farther out to the right versus just using, you know, what you have.

Yeah.

Trevor, I am a one because I used to have a Nike school, and so we had these Nike events and. And I was talking to him, you know what I asked him? I said, I got to ask you a question. Yeah, of course. And I said, well, it looked like you're in the Masters in that last round. Your swing was like three quarters. You know what I mean? And he laughed. He goes, it was. He said, I know when I'm under pressure, you know that if I take, you know, a nice, short, controlled swing, and he goes like, you know, I drop a club or two, you know what I mean? And my swing comes very short. I know that works. That works for me. And he said, dad, you're exactly right. You know, he was like. It looked like he was. They can have swings, but that's how he. He knew that that's what would. Would be the case.

Do you have a shot like that for when you're under pressure?

Yeah, I was kind of always like a. A three quarter swing. And I, I know when I, like when I get into tournaments, I'm typically a club further than I am in practice rounds. So it's always really interesting.

The adrenaline.

Yeah, just that, you know, I think that's pretty common. Yes. That's, that's, that's super normal. I can count on my draw for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, see what's interesting. So what this leads up to, guess what? It leads back to having a plan.

Knowing your player, the relationships are huge.

Oh, yeah.

You know how what happens? Because a lot of players psychologically think it's a swing flaw.

Not necessarily right away.

So you sure get. It's like, no, it's not a swing flaw.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. So you're gonna go up to the driving range with Ernie else. You're gonna go up there, driving range with Ernie else, and talk to him how he's gonna get rid of his little push fade. Like. Of course not. It's not what it is. No. We could be up there for days, and it's, you know, it's not going to be the case knowing that player and how they deal with, you know, pressure and. And let. And let him understand that as well, right?

Oh, yeah.

Stephanie, you say, yeah. A lot of times it's just conversation. And sometimes like, well, that's the conversation. It's like, well, that's normal. That's what's going to happen.

Last year, one time, and I went out with Hayes and I was like, I have got to get this, like, six iron. Six iron has been. It's kind of always been, that's my longest iron in the bag. Right. And then I go into. And like, we gotta fix this. And I know that it is not the golf swing. Like, I. I'm doing this, but I've got to have more confidence in this golf club. So we went out and we went to all the toughest approaches where.

On the course, right?

Yeah, on the course where I would. And we've gotten to the yardage where I would hit that club. And it was. It was wonderful.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, you know, in this situation, I'm gonna. I know that. Okay. My. My variance isn't. Isn't very good or is too big here. So I'm gonna know, all right. I'm can either play short or long, right. Depending on the hole. And, you know, these are my situations where it's a go club.

And before he took you out there, like, on your own, how many times were you taking that club and giving yourself different situations to practice with it?

Yeah, it was definitely because I know it's. It's one of those clubs that I have to put some time with. It was like, okay, I got to do it on the range. Do it on the range. And then still trying to force it myself, even on the golf course. But. But that time of going out there to try and, okay, we got to talk through this. Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, give me. Give me a situation here. Let's put a little something on the line, even between. Between us and. And get those stressors to come out.

Yeah.

Create those situations and, you know, so that when you come across them. And that's what I was getting to. That's where I was kind of saying is that a lot of times in those situations, the only way to learn is to be in those situations.

Yes. Experience is a great teacher.

Yes.

Yeah. You know, like I said. Yeah. When the first time. Like I said, I don't matter. Doesn't matter if somebody's breaking 100. They just shot 45 in the front, and, you know, and mentally they're like, oh, my God, you know, this is my opportunity to break 100 for the first time. Yeah. Those. The pressure and, you know, you want to try to tell them that five iron is not the same five iron you had.

Yeah.

On the third hole. Right.

The application is huge and, like, you know, tying this back into what we're doing with the. The Troon Summit and the instructors, like, applying what we learned. I know from Kevin Kirk's, like, that class it was teaching at 18 handicapper. I literally, like, I was with her, and I was, like, making a program while we were, like, just so many light bulbs went off, and I made a break 100 class.

And.

And, like, Erica Larkin's like, you know, your coaching brand and social media, like, definitely picked up on a few things.

For her, but, like, started the new.

Yeah. Yeah. How do you know that we're in the class line?

The best line from Erica, you know, and I, you know, obviously, I know Erica, but I thought the best line from Erica was when I'm doing Instagram. So we're in a room with golf professionals. Right. And. And, you know, some of the people we talk about, Joe Hallett, they're. They're, you know, they all were there.

Yes.

Right.

Most of them there all day. They hung out, which is really great. So she's talking to all golf professionals, and I thought, the best line of this, for all of this, she's like, I'm not doing Instagram for you.

Yes.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to entice you as a golf professional. That's not. You know what I mean? Now, that's quite something.

That's true. Golf professionals look at other golf professionals to, I think, pick up ideas and see kind of what they're doing. But, I mean, obviously, I'm not judging other Instructors, things. No, I don't.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, for me, as, you know, going through these things, I'm, you know, trying to, I always love new. I don't know, they call it like drills. Somebody has a drill like, oh, that's a really good. Or a way to say something to somebody. You know, he said this is how he is. Like, oh, wow, I like that. You know, I could use that.

Yeah.

At some point. That's a great way to phrase.

Yeah.

Or, you know, that's why I like. One of the things that we go back to the summit, you know, with Cheryl, which was perfect, is that one of the biggest questions we got from our coaches was, you know, training aids, you know, different ones. That's something I think in the future we might add. That's something, you know, I thought about, you know, get your guys thoughts on just the segment and all the different kinds of training aids. Are they worth it? Are they not worth it? Because we all know that, I mean, some are like, oh, this thing's really good at this. Other things are like, no, don't know, don't waste your money or having all those different things. Like with Erica, it's like, no, I'm, you know, I'm trying to, you know, I have an audience, you know, students. That's what I'm trying to get to. Those people will come and see her, I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. She, she's trying to, you know, obviously it's not going to be. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's what she said. Branding, you know, be you. Yeah, whatever that is. Because everybody, you know, Erica knows that. She knows that everybody doesn't like her or doesn't like her brand or doesn't like her style or, you know what I mean? Too goofy or whatever. It's like, okay, but that's who I am for them.

Yeah, yeah.

And if you're going to be more serious and this is where that's okay, right? I mean, be who you are, like, because there's going to be people that are attracted to that. Yeah, that was her message. You know, be. You know, branding is like, be you. Don't try to be me. Don't try to, you know, copy Erica.

No, right.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, that's your goal. Then that's kind of silly, you know, in a way, you know, it doesn't matter, you know, if you're serious and you're trying to attract a certain player or a certain student and, you know, be that, you know, with that. But yeah, Again, you know, our goal with those is to, you know, be as well rounded as we possibly can.

Yeah.

So we. Somebody. You get a tidbit.

I was gonna say I was agreeing with you, and I. I was curious for Stephanie, what from the seminar. Like, I know what I was going to apply. Like, what. What were your takeaways? Being a coaching instructor. Like what or who? Or something you heard from it that you plan on, like, applying to your development at San Jose?

Well, when Operation 36 came out in the afternoon, and I've done that program in the past, and I'm kind of. We do our own little variation, but just, I think all of it from that with group sessions, because I do. I do a lot of the group classes a lot with the kids, and. And you want to get so much information across. Right. Like, you have a plan. You have your lesson plan. You have the education that they need to get. And I think at times with the kids, especially, you know, newer golfers, it's supposed to be fun, too. Like, I have to remember that even though. Okay, my job is to teach you, I'm also to teach you to love the game. So, you know, I want to go back to. All right, let's start with some games. We're going to do the education piece. We're going to go back to having fun. We're always going to leave with that fun piece. Right. And just being able to adapt depending on who the student is, you know, and really listening. And I think. I think it's something I already do, but just really trying to focus on the one or two things for the day. That's it. Okay, this is what we're gonna do now. Next time. This is kind of where we're gonna go.

Yeah.

But just.

Well, what. That goes along with Stephanie. So you're an advanced golfer.

Yes.

And your comment about you going to get a lesson would be to learn one or two things, right?

Yeah.

And you're an advanced golfer. So what do you think we should be doing with. Yes. So we have a beginner golf class. Yeah. Yeah.

So.

So there you go. You know, so when you have a beginner golf class or intermediate, because intermediate's still something like breaking 100. Yes, it was an intermediate golf class. Yeah. Giving them too much information or going in there and talking to them about all these things that we know is. Is a mistake. Right. I mean, that's part of having a plan, too. It's like, today we're going to work on this.

This is what we're doing.

Yeah.

Right. Whether it's, you know, hey, we're going to start with grip and setup. That's it, right?

Oh, yeah.

I. I literally just did that this weekend, actually, because, you know, it's just sometimes you get on. So you're like, okay, well, that's starting to look good. You know, I see this other little thing. Okay, be patient.

Yeah, yeah. If you're trying to give them the focus on the grip and setup, and they're struggling with that. I used to teach people to teach classes, and I would do it on purpose, you know, and I would say, what? Listen to. Watch this. And we're three or four people down. You know, we have a class of seven or eight people, and we're just going down a line and checking their grip and their setup, Right?

Yeah.

And I was telling one of the instructors, I said, you want to. She. It was her, Cindy, who was great. She said, why didn't you bring that out? Why didn't you, you know, why didn't you point that out? And I'm like, no, no, no, you know, not. Not. Not yet. And I said, well, I'm going to show you why, you know, because I just needed to show her. So, like, the sixth person down. And I. I said, well, it would help a lot if you just kept your left arm straight. That would really help. And I did it on purpose. And I said. And I pulled her back and said, watch. Almost every single student was standing there. Yes.

Yeah.

And I said, they're gone.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah.

The grip is gone. You know what I mean? They are, right? They are like, what do you mean, my left arm needs to be straight? What? You know, like, you know, how's that work? Now I was able to reel them back in because I, you know, I'm like. I stopped them right away. And not, you know, I'm like, okay, everybody, let's take a break. Let's go over this again real quick. Yeah, that's what I did. Let's check your grip. Let's check your setup, because I wasn't going to let them do that. But that's the point, Right?

Right.

And sometimes you have to do that, and, like, you know, we got to wrap this up. But it seems like with development, whether it's a teacher or a coach or a student developing, it seems like we've kind of covered three areas. It's. It's one, you got to formulate a plan. You have to have a plan. Number two, you have to have the ability, like, there. You need to be a little Flexible. So have that plan. But it might go a little bit this way or that way. And then, you know, third, embrace the long term development of it. So it's not a quick fix for anything. Whether even as a coach, like it takes years and years of experience and bodies in front of you to get good at what you're doing. So you can't just jump ship right away. You know, I've been teaching young juniors and I want to teach elite player. You know, you hear that a lot and it's just like you, it's just like being a student. Like it's the same. It's those three things. Formulate a plan, be ready to be a little bit flexible and adaptable. And then three, embrace the long term development of it. And I think if you can do that, whether you're a coach, a teacher, a player, a parent, you know, these are all the same things. We've got to be helping the, the person in front of you understand and, and guide them through that process. But Right.

With that, I think, you know, don't be afraid to communicate that to them. Sure.

Oh, yeah. I'm not the time, I mean that.

It'S going to take a little time. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna go through a process here. We're not going to overload you with information because nowadays, you know, people are impatient. Right. I mean, they, you know, fix me today.

Yeah.

Do something. You don't want to do that, but you have to explain them. It's like, well, like I said, hey, the combination of things you have are a lethal combination. So, you know, it's going to take some time.

Yeah.

To get these, to get these through that. But to explain the plan and why we're doing it and you know, it's going to take a little while and you know, hopefully you're patient and we'll do this and everything will be okay. You know, so I think that's part of all that.

Cool. Well, thank you guys so much for being on. Greatly appreciate your time and just your experiences and sharing that. It's always, it's always great. So if you haven't. Steve has had his own episode previously in season one and Step. Stephanie has had her own episode on the Coach Mo Golf show in season one too. So if you haven't heard those, definitely catch up and hear those because you can hear more about their story and journey of how they've gotten here. And you know, again, thanks guys. It's always a pleasure.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Thanks, Steve.

Yeah.

It's great.

Bye. See y'. All. Bye, now.

Bye.

Let's stop. All right. That was episode nine of the Coach Mo Golf Show. Thanks again to Steph and Steve for being on the show. If you'd like to follow them on Instagram, you can find Steph at Coach Steph Golf. And that's S, T, E, P H. And Steve Loescher is at Steve Loescher. For more information about me or the Coach Mo Golf show, you can find me on my website, www.coachmo golfpro.com. and my social media handles are oachmogolfpro. Thank you for supporting the show. Looking forward to putting out another great episode in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again, guys.