#10: Pete Kostelnick on Running Extremely Long Distances

I wasn't near any running stores, so I picked up a salt shaker and you would find me on the side of the road just taking hits of salt just to stay normal.

Hello everyone, my name is Floris Gierman. Welcome to the Extra Mileless Podcast where I interview the brightest minds in health, fitness, and nutrition. And we talk about a variety of different topics including one of my favorites, how to become a stronger, healthier and happier athlete. Today's guest on the show is Pete Kostelnik. I don't know anyone else who has run as many miles as Pete has. This year alone, he has already passed 10,000 miles. One thing he did recently was run all the way from Alaska down to Florida. That was almost 5,400 miles in 97 days. That's more than 2 marathons a day. He also has the Guinness World Record running coast to coast in America from San Francisco to New York in only 42 days where he ran 72 miles a day. Besides that, he has won many different races including course record holder of the Badwater 135. In today's episode, we talk about Pete's training, his approach to racing, injury prevention, obviously with high mileage, how he prevents getting injured. We talk about nutrition and about motivation as well. I think this episode is interesting not only for the ultra runner out there, but also for other athletes. We talk about marathon running, even for half marathons, different training approaches. Um, I had a really fun time with this conversation and definitely think many of you will enjoy it as well. Um, as always, all of the show notes from this episode can be found on my website extramilest.com. Hope you enjoy my conversation with Pete Kostelnik.

Let's jump right in over here. How you doing? Where are you at right now?

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, back just at home. So right on. Good.

First of all, I want to say congrats, man. I've been following your journey every single day. You just ran all the way from Alaska to Florida. Incredible. It was, it was very fun to see your daily updates on, on Instagram every day, about 10 photos whenever you had phone reception. Wow, wow. Maybe we can start out with, with just diving right into it. Can you tell us a little bit more, some of the details about the adventure and some of the things that you experienced?

Yeah, yeah. So, um, you know, I started up in Kenai, Alaska on July 31st. Um, kind of changed my mind about 8, 9, 10 times before I even started on whether I wanted to even, even start the run, but somehow found myself outside my motel in Kenai Town on July 31st at 3 AM. I didn't really know what I was doing. I had my stroller there with me, and a lady named Summer came and picked me up and drove me about an hour down to Anchor Point on the Kenai Peninsula, which is as far west as you can go on US highways. And, uh, the funny thing about that ride down in the dark was it was, uh, she's— the first thing she told me when we got in the car was, all right, look for bears and moose on your side of the truck. And so I was like— and that was the road I was gonna have to run on the first day. I was like, okay, I'll do that. And, um, I was, you know, it was pretty, uh, pretty incredible journey though. Like, just starting out in Alaska, um, very desolate, very quiet, you know, didn't have like— didn't even have my wife or anybody joining me for the start. Um, and you know, I told myself when I went up there, you know, if things don't look right, if something goes wrong, you know, by day 3 or 4 in Anchorage, um, just call it. Just, you know, don't, don't put yourself in, uh, don't, don't get— don't get, um, you know, too far in that you just something goes wrong, you can't get out of here. So, you know, it went really well though. Like, you know, by day— even by day 2, I was like in my element again. I was like, this is what I'm made to do. And it was just— I was having a lot of fun. And, you know, the fun just never really stopped from that point on. And, you know, the first 35 days I was on the Alaska Highway and I didn't really see anybody. I didn't really run with anybody those first, you know, that first month or so. It was really just me by myself.

That must have been quite lonely at some— at times when you're like running a full like 10, 12-hour day.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah, it was, it was very interesting. You know, I learned a lot about myself, just, you know, just things I already kind of knew, but just it was just kind of nice to be out there by myself and honestly just seeing pine trees on, you know, just as far as the eye can see, millions of pine trees. I called them my cheering squad. Like, I just imagined it being like the Tour de France with, you know, instead of having people lining the road, it was a bunch of trees lining the road. And it was just incredible because like when I would stop, you know, take a break, I would just look off into the woods and be like, there's probably never even been a human being like in that part of the forest or anything, so let alone a human running down those roads. So yeah, it was just a really surreal experience, you know, to see such amazing lakes, mountains, rivers, glaciers, and just, you know, starting off along the ocean there on the Kenai Peninsula. And then, you know, I started to get down You know, once I, you know, I kind of replaced scenery with people once I got to southern Canada where the scenery kind of changed more into like wheat fields and oil country. But that's where I really started to— I was kind of blown away, you know, just about every single day from southern Canada through the whole rest of the run. You know, the last two-thirds, second half of the run, I had people join me just about every day, and it was just an incredible experience to meet so many people and really, you know, get to know them really well. And, and then, you know, meet up with old friends and even people that the only time I'd seen them before was when I ran across America 2 years ago. I had several people that came out and ran with me again, and that was a really cool experience as well. It was just, just so many great memories. And, you know, I kind of compare it, you know, running across America from Alaska to Florida is like having Disney World all to myself with no lines, and then, you know, running across America 2 years ago is like Disneyland and just standing in line all day. You know, it's great, but it's not nearly as cool as, you know, the big, the big diverse Alaska to Florida adventure that I just went on.

Yeah, because, because those were 2 completely different adventures that way, right? Like the last one you just did was all fully self-supported, you running with a stroller, and the one 2 years ago in 2016, you had an actual crew and you had a vehicle that you slept in at night. Like, what was for you mentally like the difference of now having to go through this all on your own? Like, can you talk about that part a bit more?

Yeah, you know, I had to be a lot, a lot more patient. I just had, you know, the main thing was I When I did it 2 years ago, running from San Francisco to New York, I could take some risks as far as like, you injure yourself or you have something kind of go wrong, someone is there to take care of it for you. I never even had to think about finding food or anything like that or carrying anything with me because I had an amazing crew with me the whole way. But, you know, running from Alaska to Florida, it's like, you know, you have to think about everything. You have to think about, do I have enough water? Do I have enough food? Those are the two main things. But then where am I going to stay tonight? Sometimes I didn't even know if a place actually existed until I actually ran right up to it. And sometimes it was like it would just be a little clearing in the trees, like a lodge or something or a cabin or a campground. And so I'd be like, I think it's a mile up, but I don't see anything. And then all of a sudden you're like right there. Okay, there it is. And sometimes it was just staying at like a little— like a gas station would have a few rooms in the back where you could stay, things like that. So it was just, you know, and that was the thing I actually liked the most about it was it was really kind of a game of chess up in Alaska and the Yukon and British Columbia. Because, you know, you have to— there are, you know, 5, 6 days sometimes between towns where they had a grocery store. And so sometimes it was 200 kilometers between gas stations. And so, you know, I had to think days and days ahead. You know, I couldn't just think about the next day. It was— I have to think about the next, almost the next province or wherever. And so Yeah, it was, you know, that was what I really actually started to like. And then I actually, once I got down into the United States again in North Dakota and then further south where, you know, I saw big gas stations with all the amenities just about every day, it was actually kind of sad because I had it too easy. And yeah, it was, you know, I really loved that. And then I had some stretches up in the Yukon where I had to do— it was really inconsistent too. Like when I ran across the US in 2016, it was almost every single day was 70 to 75 miles.

And how many days was that?

That was 42 days and change. And this was— this was— so that was about 3,100 miles. And this was about 5,400 miles from Kenai to Key West. My average was 55 miles a day, but more times than not, it would be 65 miles one day, 42 the next, 75 the next, 30 the next. And so, it was really just based on where I could find places to stay knowing that all I had for camping gear was a tiny little A-frame tent and an inflatable pillow. And, I didn't really have So anytime I had— I only had to camp a few times, and anytime I camped, it was just really just set up camp, nap, and then, you know, get a couple hours of sleep and then get back out on the road. Wow.

So talk about the food part a little bit, because you just mentioned some days you wouldn't have any opportunity to buy new food for several days. What would you stock up on? Because you would have a stroller that you could put things in, but things become pretty heavy as well. So what would you bring along the way?

Yeah, you know, I found a lot of calorie-dense foods that were mostly non-perishable or could last over a week. My— one of my biggest go-tos is trail mix. I would have like a gigantic Ziploc bag that I would just pour trail— different brands of trail mix in along the way. So I had like this giant bag of like, um, it was probably like 10 different brands and 20 different kinds of trail mix. It was like everything you can Any type of trail, anything that would be considered trail mix was in that bag. And so that, you know, that got me through, you know, it was, it was probably like 10,000 to 15,000 calories of food in one bag of trail mix. So that got me through a lot of long stretches. But also like for, you know, I wouldn't say higher quality food, but, you know, a little more substance, I would pack chili. Cans of chili are pretty common, like at some of those little gas stations up there. You're not gonna find like any warm breakfast sandwiches or like anything like that up there. So it's— if you could find a sandwich in a gas station up along the Alaska Highway, that was like, you know, almost unheard of. So just a lot of like non-perishable foods, like, you know, like chili. Like, I actually had a can of chili that made it all the way to Key West, I think, from the Yukon because I just kind of kept it in there for good luck. No way. But it's just kind of stuff like that. And, you know, pretty unhealthy stuff too, like, like fruit snacks, like candy bars. I did a lot of Snickers bars and things like that as well, just to kind of keep the calories going throughout the day. And, you know, a lot of times if I stayed at like a gas station that had like a motel or a lodge, they would have a restaurant. So I would have like a gigantic feast at night, like a burger or two and, you know, whatever else, like a big salad as well if they had. But it was funny because one lady told me in Beaver Creek, Yukon, I'll never forget this, right on the Alaska-Yukon border. Where you're really out in the middle of nowhere. They didn't even have a grocery store there, and it was like the only town for a long time. I remember asking her if they had any like fresh sandwiches at the— at this convenience store, and she's like, "Hun, if you're looking for lettuce around here, it's like cigarettes in a prison." Like, it's just like you're just not gonna find it, and if you do, someone's already taken it.

Classic.

Did you feel—

did you need to supplement with anything? Did you feel your body needed certain things that you couldn't really get out of the food there?

Yeah, it's funny. The first day of the run, I was really lucky that I didn't start the run earlier because it was pretty good weather, so I didn't have to replenish salt too much. That's one thing, I sweat out salt like nobody else. I actually like, I had a couple I met on the flight into Anchorage were going to meet up with me and they asked me if I needed anything. And like, this is the first day and I was just texting them and I forgot like, oh, I'm self-supported. So I told them, pick me up some like some salt caps or Enduralites or something. And, and then they brought it out to me and I remembered I couldn't take it from them because I wanted to stay fully self-supported. So I actually just picked up a salt shaker at a, you know, I wasn't near any running stores, so I picked up a salt shaker and like you would find me on the side of the road just like taking hits of salt just to stay normal. And then after that, you know, I found I did a lot of sports drinks as well to kind of get my electrolytes back up because I was That was one thing I didn't really think through going into the run. I was thinking more like food and logistics, and then I was just like, I forgot about the whole running aspect of the adventure.

Yeah, so you didn't take any gels or any Clif Bars or those kind of things? Like it was more whatever you would find along the way?

Yeah, and once I got further into the run, I did a lot of Clif Bars. It's funny, to this day, anytime I go into a gas station, I'm like, the first thing I think of is, where are the Clif Bars? Where's the Gatorade? And just like, where— if they have— where— and if they have sandwiches, pick up a couple. And so I have to remind myself, yeah, you're not in— you're not in Transcon mode anymore.

Yeah.

Wow.

So you ran about 2 marathons a day for 97 days. How in the world did you train for that? And how in the world do you prevent injuries as well as you go through some of that?

Yeah, you know, the funny thing is, you know, I think a lot of it was from doing the Transcon in 2016 from San Francisco to New York. As far as like building up my durability, you know, the recovery from running across America in 2016 was a lot slower than I wanted it to be, but at the same time, You know, I, you know, it was almost a mistake year, like 2017. I'll be like the year after I ran across America. I'll be the first to say that I overtrained. I was doing too many 200-mile weeks and, you know, doing 2 a day, like 15 miles before work, 15 miles after work type of, type of stuff. And the, you know, the positive out of that was you know, doing a transcon with, you know, 40, 50, 60 miles a day was almost— I'm not going to say it was easy, but it was like the recovery was a lot easier for me, I think, than, than most people because my legs were just so used to, uh, to used to kind of going through that every day that, um, it, yeah, it was— I was, I was amazed. The only, the only real issue I had was my Achilles would tighten up here and there, um, just with all the miles. And then pushing the stroller too added a little bit more, um, push-off I needed, uh, from the Achilles. And so yeah, it was, it was incredible. Like, I wasn't really— I wasn't, you know, I think I've been in better shape before, like, um, speed-wise. But as far as durability-wise, I came in, um, into 2017 and 2018 with with a good base going.

So what was like your weekly training miles? The part I like about you a lot is you share all of your runs on Strava so people can actually, and I'll make sure to put a link in the show notes as well. You still run, your training volume leading into this was still relative high, right? You were training for Badwater. You had a few different races going on, then going on to Badwater, and then this adventure was pretty fast after. What, what is like your training base like at that point?

Yeah, um, yeah, you know, I had a lot of, a lot of this year even. I had a lot of 150 to 200-mile weeks. Um, I did, did, you know, I did a few 24-hour races that, you know, weren't great performances, but they were great, um, mileage getters, I guess you could say. Um, I did a 6-day race, uh, and that was a a good test. And, you know, before I knew it, I'd already done, you know, so many longer races. You know, I went out on the Appalachian Trail for, um, 5 days with Harvey Lewis on his Appalachian Trail attempt. So I mixed it up a little bit better this year, but I was still, um, you know, I still had some 150-mile weeks in just normal training as well. And, uh, yeah, you know, I, I think, um, I think I went in I think I went into this run with a good 4,000 miles through the first half of the year. So I was still, yeah, I was getting a lot of miles in and I'm sitting here today in early December with just over 9,700 miles for the year after those 5,400.

Unbelievable. You think you're going to break 10K this year?

I think so. Yeah, that's my goal because I'm going out to Desert Solstice this weekend. I'll be the first to admit I'm not really looking to do anything crazy out there, but I'll probably get hopefully at least a 100-miler in. And so yeah, I'll be pretty— I'll be knocking on the door here pretty soon. And in 2016, I got to 90— I think I got to like 96, 9,700 miles that year. So it would be kind of cool to break 10,000 miles at least once in a year.

That would be, that would probably be one. That must be the highest amount of miles run on Strava in a year, wouldn't it?

Maybe on Strava. You know, I think there were, you know, some crazy guys like there was a Lindgren guy back in the day that would, he would do a lot of 200-mile and he was like a 5K runner and he was putting in like 200+ miles every week for a really long time. So Yeah, there's probably not more than— I'd have to guess not more than a few dozen people that have ever done 10,000 miles in a year.

Yeah, that's definitely building up the miles right there. You've probably run more in a year than most people run in a lifetime that way. Real quick, going back to the training part, but also the injury prevention and the injuries, would you do a lot of stretching, rolling, proper warm-up, cool-downs, like ice bath? What would it look like for you during training, during the high mileage, but also once you start going on some of these adventure runs?

Yeah, I don't stretch much before I run, but I do— I was a little bit better about stretching every morning on this run just because it felt better because I was so stiff. Waking up and even if I'm off my feet for 14 hours, it's still a little hard to get going. But, I'm not a big fan of stretching before running in general.

Me neither. I'll be the first one to admit.

Yeah. And, I like to just kind of— sometimes I get a little ahead of myself, go out too hard on a run, on training run at the start. But, ideally, I like to kind of go out easy and just use the first mile or two as my stretching. Just kind of a natural form. But once I'm done, you know, getting— I usually like to stretch for a good, you know, if I can get 10 to 15 minutes of stretching, that'd be great. I usually don't go much, much past that after I'm done. But, you know, I think, you know, a lot of it is, you know, building a lot of slower base. I do a lot of slower miles. So I think you can build a lot of durability if you just go, you know, you do— I don't do much quality. I want to do more quality workouts, but, you know, even when I'm like in peak form, I don't usually do more than 1 or 2 faster, like I call it more like a test run, like testing my limits. Whereas, you know, I know some people that go hard almost every day, and that's what I think how they get injured is they just, you know, they're really testing their body's ability to, to go that extra gear.

So, well, and that's why you're probably able to put in these higher volume training weeks as well, right? Being able to run up to 150 or 200-mile training weeks. Like, if you would be hammering out high-intensity workouts, your recovery is going to go right out of the window, really.

Absolutely.

You might be able to maintain that for a little bit, but At the end of the day, that's short-term gains versus long-term, really.

Yep, yep. And I don't really take a ton— like, you know, last year, in 2017, I took a couple of months off running completely. But yeah, I don't really do like a big down— like take a big break either. I like to train through the winter if I can. But yeah, I don't do a whole lot of quality. I think— and that's the funny thing is there's been times where all I did was slow easy, long, long training runs. And I was hitting PRs just because my legs were like, I was just a different type of runner. My legs were just strong. Like, and, and, you know, my, my cardio was great because I was, I was moving so much and I got so efficient that I only had to do like a tempo run like once every 2 or 3 weeks just to kind of maintain some of that higher gear.

Isn't it unbelievable how you can actually with a lot of slower, slower runs, slower pace, lower heart rate runs still be able to PR? Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because back in the day, like about 10 years ago, you got into marathon running and you even ran Boston. Can you talk about that experience?

Yeah, yeah, and you know, I never really had a coach, so I had a coach in high school, but that was about it. I've had people that wanted to kind of guide me, and a couple people have. But when I was training, I qualified for Boston in 2009 on my second marathon, and I ran it in 2010. Although I was kind of injured, I kind of just did it anyway. And yeah, I'm not like a super speedy guy. I wanted to break 3 hours for a while, and I thought the way to break 3 hours just to like run 3-hour marathon pace, like for 8 to 12 miles every day and just kind of, kind of just push through it and not, not really don't do any real slow running. Cause like slow running is for, uh, old people, I guess. And, um, so then I kind of just like, I kind of just thought, you know, I wasn't really cut out for marathons anymore. And so I started doing ultras in 2011 and, uh, kind of got away from marathon and marathoning for a few years and came back. And in 2015, I ran the Lincoln Marathon in Nebraska where I lived, just kind of on a— more on a whim, doing more ultra, ultra long, long distance, long slow distance training. And I got a 2:41 PR, and it was like a hot day as well, and I got, I got third Nice little cash prize. It's a pretty good, pretty competitive marathon. I think that if you're an ultra runner, it doesn't mean you have to say goodbye to— and I think I got all my PRs that year. I got a 5K, 10K PR as well, just kind of doing long, slow, easy training for the most part.

We have a lot of listeners in the audience that are half marathon runners, a lot of marathon runners who are looking to qualify for Boston or running a PR in a marathon or a sub-3-hour marathon. What would you say to some of these people? What do you think has worked well for you in your training?

Yeah, another thing, I do most of my training, honestly, 95% of it probably by myself. I think for a lot of people it's a struggle to get the miles in. And, you know, I've, I, you know, I like to do, you know, I love to do group runs, but I like to kind of save them more for like when I'm tapering or, you know, try to strategically put it into my schedule so that, you know, I'm not completely abandoning all social aspects of running. But, um, but yeah. And then just doing, um, just signing up for races really too. Like I've, I've kind of hit points in my training where I'm like, Okay. I need like, I need like a big 6-month window to really be ready for this, like really daunting, you know, 6-day race or whatever. And, um, you know, that usually I think it's, it's good to naturally, if you're kind of like me and you get a little ahead of yourself on training, sometimes it's, it's good to mix in races. Uh, even if you know, you're not going to do that great. Um, like I'm going out to Desert Solstice this weekend for a 24-hour track race and I don't have really any business being there from a, uh, personally from my, my own competitive standpoint. Um, but I'm going out there anyways just to kind of keep myself honest and kind of just force myself to enjoy and kind of, I think it keeps the, the motivation and inspiration there too when you're around, um, great runners. And so just, you know, signing up for races and mixing them in and just knowing that like, you know, I kind of look at some of the elite runners on the national stage and I kind of feel bad because they do 2 marathons a year and if they don't have a good race or if they go in sick, then they kind of— I'm not going to say they wasted all that time training, but yeah, I think for the average person, keeping the schedule full and just kind of keeping the fire alive is It's been huge for me in my training.

It's that fine line, right, between wanting to keep the fire alive and being motivated and be out there and checking into what your fitness level is, yet at the other hand you don't want to overdo it because you might burn yourself out or you might—

Exactly, yep.

Set yourself back a little bit further in training again if you push yourself too hard in that race. And yeah, that's a—

Yep.

How do you deal When I look at you from the outside, I see someone who's incredibly motivated to get up day in, day out, to put the work in, especially during some of these adventures, but even during regular training weeks. How do you motivate yourself? Are there any special ways, any strategies there that work for you?

Yeah, you know, I guess for me personally, it's trying to beat myself from previous years because that's kind of the way I've always been wired. And that's why, like, you look at my running past and like each year, like, I haven't— I don't think I've always— I've always kept my miles somewhere that I've— my training miles. And so like when I first started marathon training, it was like more— I think I was already up in like a 50, 60, 70-mile week range. Every year it was like, I gotta do more, I gotta do more, I gotta do more. Now, like, I think 2016, 2017, I kind of hit a breaking point where I couldn't outdo it. So I had to kind of flip it around a little bit and kind of look for other ways to, to keep improving. But I think that's, that's one thing that kind of gets me going is just I love the— I don't like it, I hate when people call it the process, but I love the The process of getting back, you know, aiming for a goal, you know, and seeing progress. I think that's what— that's my favorite thing about running is, you know, compared to other sports from a young age is that, you know, you kind of control your own destiny and it's a very easy sport to see progress. And so really, you know, keeping a log— like, I know some people that never write down any of their miles or record anything. To me, that would be impossible. I think I would give up right away because I think for me, I love to see progress. I love to know that I went for a 10-mile run at the same pace as I did a week ago, but it felt twice as easy this week and things like that. I think that's what keeps me most motivated.

That part I fully agree with and experienced it myself as well. I run with a heart rate monitor quite a bit. And I go to a track usually once a month to kind of measure progress as well, like running at the same heart rate, doing like a MAF test. And from there, it's fascinating once you start building up a training cycle again, and let's say at 145 heart rate, the one month you might be running like an 8-minute pace, and then another month later, a 7:30-minute pace, and the next month is 7:10-minute pace.. And just to see how quickly you can progress really in the same heart rate, it's quite fascinating that way.

Yeah, I remember when I first started running with my wife after I took a few months off way back in 2009, and then more recently just a year ago after I had taken some time off, just running a 10-minute mile out of the blue after taking a few months off, you're just like, how am I ever— and then to think that I could do this easily for 24 hours 6 months from now. It's like right now I'm just like huffing and puffing to get through a few miles. It's really incredible how quickly you can improve.

And that's not only pace-wise, but that's distance-wise as well, because a lot of people might have run up to a marathon distance, but anywhere beyond that, it's a gray zone. They've never experienced it until you start doing your first 50K, your 31-mile, and like that zone, you just expand your horizon. Once you have done it, that almost becomes the next norm. And then from there, I remember once I went from 31K mile to 35 mile to 50 mile to 100, like you keep expanding your horizon that way and it becomes less scary over time.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I remember the first time I did a, I did a 20K race when I was a senior in high school and I, couldn't believe, like, I felt so like privileged to be there because I see like the people with like the mesh hats and like I'd never done a race where, you know, you have the like the old, old-timers and the marathoners there. And I was like, wow, I'm like, I'm almost to a half marathon and like thinking that was like ridiculously far. And like literally like I, you know, people, you know, can't believe that a lot of times, but I used to think that running a half marathon was like unbelievably far. Now it's like, you know, it feels like a sprint to me to go out and do a 13-mile like tempo run.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I want to go back to your Alaska to Florida adventure a little bit more into detail. So can you describe some of your highlights or a few of the things that you remember as like being a really good day, something you experienced that you're like, oh, that was one of my favorite days of the trip?

Yep, yep. You know, I remember day— so the first 4 days, it was really just kind of negotiating my way out of the Kenai Peninsula and into like mainland Alaska. And I remember on day 5, I was kind of getting past the Anchorage-Palmer area on like the busy— like the busiest highway that goes through there. And the second I turned off that highway, I onto the Glen Highway heading east, kind of into no man's land. It just— I just remember this, you know, kind of like being in a Star Wars movie with all the cars zooming by you, like flying by you. It was like zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. And then 2 minutes later, I was off on this quiet— it was so peaceful. And I was just off into the woods. I was— it was like I had gone into like a whole different world. And I just remember that day. Also, because I think I camped that night and I met a lady, older lady, who bought me lunch and a couple beers at this bar in— it was near Chickaloon. I think it was Sutton Roadhouse. And it was just like the most amazing place I'd ever set foot in. It was just this gigantic pioneer town bar that was untouched. We were the only ones there. And that was just a really fun day. And then I camped that night. I met a lot of really nice couples from there on through all the way through Alaska and the Yukon and British Columbia. But that was just a really cool day because it was like going off into the you know, an abyss. And just like, you're just like, you don't know what to expect. And, um, but, and then, and then the days after that, just, and, um, the next day seeing like gigantic mountains and glaciers, um, in Alaska and just kind of being blown away by how beautiful it was. Um, and then in the Yukon, I saw some really amazing, uh, lakes there. Just that some of them that stretched like 50, 60 miles long, and, um, you know, not seeing any like commercial commercialization at all. It was just kind of like you had the, the, this giant lake all to yourself.

It must almost feel like a time is standing still in some of those zones, right?

Like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you know, a lot like some of those places hadn't really changed much, I don't think, since I, uh, my family and I drove up the Alaska Highway in 1999, and here we are almost 20 years later, and like nothing had really changed in some of those places, which was incredible. But, um, you know, I just met— I met so many people. Like, it was just every day was unique up on the Alaska Highway. I was staying— I stayed in cabins, I stayed in, um, gas stations, I stayed in like above a bar. I've stayed like— I just stayed like everywhere you can kind of imagine along the Alaska Highway. It's like every place was unique and it was based on like what the, you know, the owners wanted, you know, saw in that place. And so, um, you know, some of them had like a gigantic big-screen TV in a cabin and then some of them had like a, you know, didn't have a TV at all or didn't, you know, it was just like a very rough and rough and tumble type of place. And so it was, it was awesome because that was like the The fun of each day was like I had no idea where I was staying or what it was going to be like where I got to the end of the day. It was just a new place to live for a day. I kind of felt like I was the resident of wherever I was even if I was only in that province or state for 6 or 7 days. I kind of felt like I was living there and I didn't have to worry about anything else in the world. But as I got further south, southern Canada was interesting because it was a lot of busier highway, kind of like running on their interstates. But it was a lot of great people I met down there.

What were some of the— do you have a few people that stand out to you? Like some stories of people along the way that you—

came across? Yeah, there were a lot. Yeah, I had a lot of interesting stories. You know, one that stands out was in Saskatchewan. A few guys came out to run with me one day, and it just, just, it was just like a perfect day after it'd been raining like non-stop. And then of course it rained non-stop after that. But yeah, that was an incredible day. In North Dakota, my cousin's boyfriend is from the Valley City area, and the cross-country team came out and ran with me one day, and it seemed like everybody in town knew who I was. That's awesome. And yeah, it was just, it was incredible there. In Iowa, I ran through, coming into Iowa was just like, I felt like a celebrity even coming through like towns I'd never been to, like people just coming up one after another to say hi, and That was pretty incredible as well. And just like getting, getting to, you know, there were days where I was meeting new people, there were days where I was catching up with relatives, and then there were days like in eastern Iowa and Illinois where like a few of my friends came out that had been, that had crewed for me in a lot of different of my running attempts, and they kind of came out and just, they knew they couldn't crew for me, but they spent the day with me and It was Jody, Dill, and Brad, and I'll never forget those two days either.

It's nice when you can mix it up, some of the lonely days with being surrounded by people as well, I'm sure.

Yeah.

It kind of breaks up the day, I'm sure.

Yeah, and then, you know, getting to— and then once I got into the Southeast, I'd been to all of the states down there, but I never really spent time in them. A meaningful amount of time, especially in Alabama and Georgia. And that was just incredibly eye-opening to, you know, see, you know, I'd grown up in cornfields all my life. Everywhere I live is surrounded by cornfields. So going down there and seeing cotton fields and pecan trees and all sorts of orchards was just like pretty cool too in itself. And then Florida, you know, I can't— Florida was 11 days of just awesomeness, just reflecting on the entire run.

11 days you were in Florida. It's a long state, huh?

Yeah, yeah. It's weird because it's not a very wide state, but it's a very long state. Florida was incredible as well. The finish— I like to tell people it's not about the finish, it's about the journey. Key West is just where it happened to end. But that last day, I specifically asked nobody to run with me the entire day because I just wanted to think back on the entire journey. And then it was the hottest day of the whole run. Well, actually most challenging because it was— the day before was 75 miles, but the last day— or 77 or something. Um, and the last day was just a nice little quick 50-miler, but it was like, I was literally just like on empty the last 10 miles. Cause, and I told, and I remember telling everybody, I think I'll finish between 2 and 3 in the afternoon. And then all of a sudden, like 2:30 crept up on me and I was still 3 or 4 miles out. And I just like, I just turned the finish into race mode and it was like, it was perfect. Cause it was like the whole entire run I was taking my time. Being patient. And then coming to Key West, I was, I was probably cutting off cars, like taking sharp turns, being very stupid. But, you know, at the last second I got to Key West at 2:57, uh, 3, with 3 minutes to spare. And it was like just a lot of fun to finish there. And, um, it was really cool because no one, uh, not very few people came down to the finish. And that's kind of the way I actually secretly wanted it. Um, I didn't want to tell like my family or close friends, like, don't come see me finish or don't surprise me. But it was really just my wife and some friends from Florida, and then a couple of guys I met in Alabama that was fun to kind of see them come down. But it was a very low-key finish, unlike New York City 2 years before that. And it was just perfect because I did one interview right after I finished, and then it was like straight, straight to shower and then out to the dinner in the bars and had a lot of fun with a few friends that night and it was just like just the way I wanted it.

So that was your celebration over there, like going to the bar and having dinner with the fam?

Yes. Yup, yup. So yeah, it was fun and you know, I only spent a couple nights down in Key West and my wife and I flew back from Miami pretty quick, but it was, I think it was just right.

Yeah, wow, that sounds like a great way to actually finish it. And it must be quite fulfilling after that journey and then coming back and then all of a sudden not running day in, day out. How was that transition?

Yeah, you know, it wasn't, you know, I think I was ready, like I'd mentally prepared myself for some downtime. Um, although I'm like itching to get back into like race mode now. Um, but yeah, it was, I think the weirdest thing was, um, just getting in a car again, like going, I remember, uh, like I had the entire run. Um, I made a point to always go everywhere on foot, even if I stayed at someone's house, like 2 miles there, 2 miles east or west or whatever. And so just like getting in a car and moving at high speed again was like a shock because it'd been like 3.5, 4 months since I'd done that. And then, you know, getting back home and driving again, you know, with the snow here in Ohio has been kind of an adjustment as well. But the running, you know, it's coming back. I don't really believe in the whole streaker thing, so I had a good 90-some-day streak, but I was happy to give it up.

Good. Yeah, I can imagine that it's good to kind of mix it up after that. Can you talk briefly about some of your lower points? If you look back at your days, I'm sure that there were beautiful runs, beautiful days, but there were quite tough spots as well. Can you talk about that some more?

Yeah. Yeah, there were a couple in particular. I had one in— I remember, you know, I didn't have service very often up in the Yukon, but I remember coming into Destruction Bay, which is kind of, kind of early on, closer to the Alaska border, and I just had really a really bad headwind day. And I remember complaining to my wife, like, this was a 60, I think it was like a 60, about 100K a day, like 62 miles. So it was a little further than the average day, but I had the next day was supposed to be 66. And then the next day after that was supposed to be 83. And then I had some more 70-mile days and just like telling her, like, I don't think I can do this. Like this wind is just destroyed me today. I feel. Like crap. I'm gonna have like an hour off my feet before I get to bed, you know, and that hour is gonna be taken up by doing my little Instagram post. And then, um, and so I just like, this is like, you know, I want some me time and I'm not getting my me time. I want to, you know, a few hours to kick back and just, you know, look at the lake that I just ran by. Um, so that was really stressful, um, because I was just like thinking like this headwind, you know, is going to stay with me the rest of Canada. I'm never going to get out of it. It's going to be a pain in the butt every single day. Um, but thankfully, you know, the next day was actually a really good day, and I bounced back pretty quick.

Um, how, how did you, how did you bounce back? Like, how did you— was that self-talk? Was that your wife coming in for support? In, in what sort of way do you overcome that?

I think it was just like going back into race mode. Like, There's during this run, I kind of had like sightseeing mode where I'm just kind of like not worrying about anything, but then every now and then I had to like keep myself honest and just be like, all right, I'm going, I'm getting dinner, going to bed, race mode tomorrow. Wake up for the race, wake up early, get out the door, you know, take a couple photos if you have time, but just keep moving. Um, and then, and then eventually I was able to get back out of race mode and back into sightseeing mode. So, um, That was good, 'cause like the entire run across America in 2016 was race mode. I didn't really have, I never had like sightseeing mode. So that was good. And I met a few new friends on that day coming into Haynes Junction. And that was great too, to kinda meet some new people that can kinda like keep your mind you know, away from like the race mode a little bit as well.

Get some fresh energy.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. And it's fun. It's always fun. Cause like a lot of the people on the Alaska Highway are like, I met, I met so many people that were like college students or like going back to school. Like they lived in Alaska and they were going to school in like Montana or cause, um, I think they have like, you can get in-state tuition if you go to school in like Washington, Montana, or some Oregon or some of those states from Alaska. So, You get a lot of that, and there's always— there are a lot of them who are runners and kind of curious about what I was doing. So that was fun. But another challenging day I had was— and it actually kind of was— I actually kind of got— this kind of tells you about the type of person I am, but I had a tire that was going flat in Alberta, and this is near Whitecourt. And I'll never forget, like, just my sister was shipping me new tires to my motel, and we decided on the motel near Edmonton because it was a little bigger town. It would probably be a little bit better about getting stuff shipped there. And I had already lost one spare tire, or I already had to put on my one spare tire because one tire went flat. But then my other tire went flat and I didn't have any spares. So, and it's not just like you can't just like put in a new tube, it's the tire is just gone. I mean, it's shredded. And because those shoulders up on the Alaska Highway are a lot rougher than I thought they'd be. And so what I did was I just took my other spare tire, put it back on, or my other shredded tire, put it back on, saved my nice tire so they would balance out. And I literally had right— I was exactly 100 miles away from Fort Saskatchewan where my other spare tire was. And so I pushed the stroller on a two— and this stroller is like 70 to 80 pounds fully loaded with water, food, and supplies. And I pushed it on two flat tires. It actually wasn't that hard as I thought it'd be, but I was just nervous that like the entire tire was going to shred down to the frame. And, um, So that was kind of an interesting experience because like my sister and I debated like having someone just like come out on a Saturday or Sunday and it was over the weekend and just drive out the spare tire to me. But I was like, well, then I was like in my Instagram post the next day when I did got my spare tire, I was like, I kind of mentioned the problem on, on social media. And but then I was like, well, you know, I thought to myself, you know, like what would some of the toughest people you know like Courtney Dahlwalter or like a guy I know Todd Knott, like what would those people do in the situation and like kind of like a what would Jesus do moment. And I was like they wouldn't make the call, they would just keep pushing along, you know, they don't need help from anybody.

So that's a good motivator right there. It truly is like what would other people do that you admire, that you respect.

Oh yeah, so that was kind of fun. That was one of the interesting scenarios that took place. But from that point on, coming the second half of the run, it was less about logistics and more about traffic and just— I was on some— if someone drove the route I ran, they'd probably be like, there's no way he ran on this highway. There are some, there are some highways that, you know, if I had scouted out the whole— I didn't go scout out the entire route before I ran it. And especially like Alabama, where I call it RSO shoulders, rumble strip only, I was running on very, very narrow shoulders or no shoulders at all. And so I was at the mercy of hundreds of thousands of cars seeing me. And so that became kind of the biggest struggle, uh, the rest of the run. So like, I think from like Minnesota on, it was like, how, how good were the shoulders versus how bad was the traffic would kind of determine how good of a day I'd have, uh, the rest of the run.

Yeah.

It's a tricky one with, with traffic, especially when you have a stroller as well. It's one thing when you're running solo on a, on the shoulder, but once you have a stroller as well, especially when it's loaded with gear. And for those listening in the audience, I do want to actually mention this part. Like, I have two kids and I run with them in my double stroller, and that does not even add up to the weight that you have been pushing across country. And I've noticed when I measure myself at the same effort, you're slower by, depending on the grade, by 1 or 2 minutes per mile is what I've noticed, kind of. And I can only imagine the amount of additional effort that you put in because of your stroller. It's It's a completely different way of running again. Over time you get used to it, but that definitely takes some getting used to.

Yeah, that's one thing I was kind of nervous about going in because I'd only trained with the stroller for maybe, gosh, like 100 to 200 miles total. I remember the first time I took it out in Missouri with my friend Scott for a day and I did a 40-miler with it. Like I was switching hands every 10 seconds. I didn't really know what to do. And then, I mean, by the time I got done in Key West, I mean, I was almost exclusively using my right arm because mostly so that if traffic, if a truck came and got close to me, I could just easily veer off to the left with my right hand. But yeah, it was interesting because like early on in the run, I wasn't really sure which arm to use. And like by the end of the run, like my arm, my right arm was just kind of like stuck, kind of like the marathon runner that had the world record, Haile Gebrselassie, back in the day, he used to— when he was a kid, he ran to school with books in his arm. And so like his form was kind of jacked up ever since because he was so used to having books in one hand. So yes. And it's weird because like, you know, I was thinking coming out of it, like pushing a stroller, would that like have me in like insane superhuman shape after the run? And the answer, I guess, is no. But I like to think, though, it was in some ways a good muscle builder, having that little bit of extra stuff to push.

Yeah, and for me, one thing that helped a lot as well is when I'm running with a stroller, I'm focused on time on my feet. I'm not focused on pace. And I think once you make that switch too, it becomes less stressful and it becomes less hard on yourself and you're just more out there enjoying a stroller run for an hour than that you have to hit that 7-minute pace or whatever it is.

Yeah. Yep. And that was one thing I liked. I never, I'll be, I hardly any of my miles were under 9 minutes. And then if there was like a hillier day, I didn't have too many super high elevation gain days, but if I did, it was like, oh, I call them excuse hills. It's like an excuse to just hike on up this big hill. Cause you're pushing, like, it's like you're pushing a lawnmower when you're going up some of those hills. And so, Yeah, it's kind of like a, it's almost like a, I don't know, more like a, you're lifting weights than you actually feel like you're a runner in some of those cases.

Yeah, completely, totally. So you've done many different ultramarathons. You've won Badwater twice. I believe you still have the current course record at Badwater right now, correct?

Yep, yep, that's right.

So, and then you've done the cross-country run from San Francisco to New York. You've done the Alaska to Florida run. I just have to ask you, what, what is your why? What is your motivation? Were there, were there any other people who had done it before you that you looked up to? Were there any inspirations or what is it?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, the run across America idea. Well, um, It kind of goes back when I first started doing ultras in 2011. I went to the Pikes Peak Marathon and I met a guy named Marshall Ulrich there who was presenting at kind of like the speaker at the expo there and the dinner. I never even really heard of the guy before. I was kind of new to the sport. He just had this incredible resume. Summitted the highest peak on every continent on his first attempt. He had won Badwater several times and he had most notably run across America recently and had a book that he was promoting that was the kind of story of his run across America in 2008.

Really good book.

Highly recommend it. Yeah, Running on Empty. I met him there and it was like I read his book a few times and then I'd also I've had the privilege of meeting Charlie Engle and becoming good friends with him over the years. He's also done runs like that. He did Running the Sahara, which was a great documentary with Matt Damon narrating.

Actually, Charlie was one of my previous podcast guests, and I actually had a coffee with him. He came to visit me yesterday.

Oh, yesterday, really?

Yeah, he was here yesterday. We were talking about you yesterday. All good stuff though, but a lot of long trail running stories as well.

Yeah, awesome. Yeah. And so just like, you know, thinking about like reading about Marshall's run across America and kind of growing up in a family of 7, youngest of 5 kids, we took road trips everywhere. We never flew because it would just be too expensive. But we always went on a summer vacation and like we'd even driven to Alaska before. We'd driven really to pretty much every state you can drive to. And, um, so like the road trip element was always, always kind of been in my blood. And so, uh, reading like Marshall's run across America story was like, I kind of just felt like I'd already done it with him in some ways. Like, like he was talking about like so many different towns I'd already been to. And, um, you know, I'd already started to do some ultras by that point. And, um, So yeah, it was just like a no-brainer. I had to run across America someday. And it wasn't really, you know, at the time I was just a novice, you know, ultra runner. And so I didn't really think about the record at all, but then it kind of just kind of came and I feel like it kind of just landed on in front of me when I got first place at Badwater in 2015. And I remember sitting, sitting at the Whitney, the Whitney Portal Hostel or whatever in Lone Pine, drinking a beer on the balcony with my, with my friend Dill and telling him like, all right, a year from now I'm going for that Cross America record no matter what. And yeah, it just kind of came, it just kind of came about from there going for the record. And you know, one thing I've always kind of noticed that a lot of people they say they're going to do something, but they don't actually do it, and they have the qualifications to do something. And there's never really a good time. And, you know, I— even though I, even though I broke the course record the next year in 2016 at Badwater, it was a pretty rough year for me because I had very, very severe anemia just 3 or 4 months before that. Literally couldn't even— I was doing a 44-mile ultra in April. I literally couldn't even make it past mile 10. And I dropped and just really tough, tough year. And, you know, I actually going into that race, I knew I was anemic, but I was just like, what the hell, I'm going to do it anyways. And, um, and, and, you know, I fixed the problem pretty quickly, uh, over those 2 or 3 months. I got my iron levels back up to where they needed to be. But so, you know, it wasn't really like the ideal year to go for a record, you know, and, but also timing-wise it worked out pretty well. Otherwise. And so I just thought, I got to do it, you know, it's no turning back. Just, you're probably never gonna get another chance to do it. So did that. But then the more recently running from Alaska to Florida, it's like in ultra running, once you do something, you kind of feel like you're part of like, like a terrible like drug cartel movie, like Breaking Bad, where you're just like You've already killed 5 people, so now you got to kill like 10 more to keep, keep yourself in the game. But no, it was running from Alaska to Florida. It was like more of like a, you know, everything went perfectly running from San Francisco to New York in 2016. And but I still felt like something was missing, like something huge, like a requirement of running across America. And you know, the biggest thing was like seeing other people do like runs across America and taking pictures, enjoying it, you know, meeting people. And like, I didn't really have any of that. I was just kind of like in race mode across America, and it was over in a blink of an eye. And so that was kind of like my motivation for doing another run across America was, you know, you, you have the endurance, you have the, um, you've built up this incredible ability to recover quickly and do tons and tons of miles. So rather than waiting till later when you might be a little more frail, you know, do it now. And it worked out. My wife and I were moving again, and so I had not had a window to quit my job before we moved to Ohio and then fit it in over a few months. And And this time, I always, I thought about doing a supported run again, but it's like, what's the point? I wanted to go about it differently and have a chance to really document it for myself and others if they're interested in following along. And so I kind of came to the conclusion the only way to both challenge myself to do something more extreme and enjoy it a little bit, do a little bit of sightseeing instead of race mode all the time, to make it further, and the only way to really do that was to do the Alask— then the Alaska idea popped into my head. And so it was kind of like one of those, like, one thing leads to another decisions. And so, but then, like, I just fell in love with it, like, from this time last year until, until the spring and summer when I got the, got the wheels on the pavement.

What can you possibly do after this?

Uh, you know, I'll never say I'm never doing another type of like Transcon again, but I want to get— I want to get fast and I want to again, because I feel like I'm— I have an incredible like fuel efficiency on a certain gear right now. But I want to get some of those faster gears back and I'm already starting to kind of work on that. I'd love to, you know, I'm craving competition like so much. So I think I'm craving so much competition so much is that I created that fake competition at the end of the Key2Key. Like, I gotta, I gotta like challenge myself.

Finish strong.

Finish strong. And then, and then I did a 24-hour track race in Georgia a couple weeks ago. I didn't do— I wasn't even really competitive, but more did it for fun, but then like the last 4 miles I was chasing down a guy, uh, a friend of mine, and like I was like literally just like killing myself to catch him. So like I really will— I think I'm just really craving, um, that competitive aspect again. So I think I really want to like start going for, um, going all out for some, some like the fixed time records and just kind of get back out on some of the trail races as well and start doing some local trail races here in Ohio. But The 24-hour race kind of lingers over me as I'm getting back on the US 24-hour team. I'd love to do that. And I'm signed up for a 6-day race this summer, kind of the, the redux of the, the 6 days in the dome from Alaska, now moved to Milwaukee in August. And so I'd love to, to do well there and really shoot for um, shoot for some high miles.

It should be a heavy, intense race as well, I'm sure, but, but a fun one.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I did, I did my first 6-day race this year, early this year, and it didn't turn out the way I wanted to be, but at the same time it was like such a cool experience that, um, yeah, it's just, they're just like, they're just, that's the thing about ultra running, there's just so many different places to go, not just physically, but just mentally.

And the whole community aspect about it as well, of those races, of everyone coming, coming out and you're not competing against others. You truly— it's only one part of it. You're competing against yourself and just the whole community feel. It's, it's great to be there.

Yep, absolutely. Good.

Um, just want to finish it up over here. Last few questions. Um, what do you think people who are listening right here who are training for a half marathon or a marathon or even an ultra, what do you think they can do to dream big and to really aim beyond what they're thinking they're capable of?

I think just having some really long-term goals. One of the things I always say is when I'm running, I don't, I don't know. Also, like, I don't know where I'm running to, but I know how to get there type of thing. Like, don't, like, you know, don't set yourself, like, you know, if you, you know, have some struggles, like, don't, um, like, don't see it as like the end of the world if you have a bad race. Like, I've had tons of bad races. I would say less than half of my races go the way I'm planning. So, um, you know, I, and I think, uh, just kind of getting out there as well, like, um, You know, I think one of my favorite things about running is there's a different reason I do it every year. So like some years you might want to be competitive, other years just go, you know, use it as like an excuse to go vacation to like somewhere you wouldn't normally go. Like I've, I've taken running to like the Salton Sea in California and like Belfast, Ireland. And you know, it's a great place to go, but I probably wouldn't have otherwise gone there and just kind of use running to do more for you than just like one thing. Like look at it holistically. And when you're thinking about like what races you want to do and what type of distance you want to do as well.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that part, just not putting— like for me, kind of as an extension of what you just said, knowing in advance that some of these races might not go according to plan. And actually, yeah, you have a plan there, but everything can happen. And knowing in advance that everything can happen, you're a little bit more open to it than getting bummed out when something doesn't go according to plan.

Yeah. Yeah. And not even have like a plan B and C, but have a plan like D, E, and F, because especially at like, like 24-hour races, it's like a classic example. Like everybody at the start line, maybe 1/10 of the people at the start line do what they like, actually like. The over-under what they think they want to do. And it's just, you know, sometimes you can surprise yourself, but it's just like a lot of times, you know, something's not going to go the way you want it. And just knowing that, like, be ready for anything, you know, no matter what. Like, you know, if you do the Boston Marathon, be ready for it to be terrible weather 9 out of 10 years and things like that. And just, you know, if the race day isn't what you thought it would be, you know, still have fun with it.

Yeah, absolutely. Well said.

Good.

Last question.

Where can people find out more about you?

Yeah, you know, I, I post a lot of stuff on Instagram, just my name, Pete Kostelnik. Also Facebook. I have like the Pete's Feet Across America, F-E-E-T Across America. And then, yeah, I post all my runs on Strava. So Strava is probably the place where I I'm active just about every day as long as I'm— if I'm running, I'm on Strava. So yeah, that's about it though.

Good.

We'll definitely make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. Do you have any parting words? Anything you would like to say at the end to the audience here?

You know, 2019, make it your year. Don't wait till— I know a lot of people, I've already heard a lot of people saying like, 2020, I'm doing Boston. 2020, I'm doing this and that. But hey, 2019 is the year to sneak in there and make it happen without all the glorious fanfare. So yeah, make it a great year.

Awesome. We'll definitely share that message. Pete, thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you on the show, and I hope we can connect again further down the line.

You bet. Thanks, buddy. All right.

Have a good one, mate.

Later. Yep. Later.

Hi guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Extramileage Show with Pete Kostelnik. As always, all of the show notes can be found on my website extramilest.com. And if you have any questions after hearing today's episode, please let me know in the comments. Thank you for listening, and I look forward to connecting with you soon again.