#15: MAF Training with 2:30 Marathoner Jonathan Walton

It's a game of patience with Maffetone and low heart rate training. It felt that I wasn't going to get anywhere when I first started. I was probably looking, the first run, 9.5-minute miles, which for me was ridiculously slow. And I thought, this is never going to work, but I stuck at it. And then I'd say quite quickly after 3 or 4 weeks, about 9.5 minutes, that dropped to 9 minutes. And then I kept a record of it. I made a graph, I could see the graph going up slightly. And then I found after about 12 weeks, you can get to quite a decent level of fitness.

Hello everyone, my name is Floris Gierman and welcome to another episode of The Extra Mile Show. On this show, I talk to different guests about ways how to become a stronger, healthier, and happier athlete. Today's guest is Jonathan Walton from the UK. He's an incredible athlete with a lot of low heart rate experience. We take a deep dive into the Mefitone training. We talk about base building, we talk about nutrition, we talk about his weekly mileage. He puts in more than 100 miles a week, but his mileage is mostly at low heart rate, so We have a really fun conversation about this. I learned a lot of different things and I hope you enjoy our conversation as well. This episode is brought to you by PATH Projects. This is my absolute favorite running apparel company. The running shorts, baseliners, shirts, and hats are all made out of the highest quality materials. And the good thing is you can actually wear it all outside of running as well. For example, this shirt that I'm wearing right now, it's a PATH Projects shirt. So no bright colors, No big logos, just very simple minimalist designs. You can check them out at pathprojects.com. All of the show notes of today's episode can be found on my website extramilest.com. I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Jonathan Walton. Yeah, Jonathan, I want to say good morning, but it's actually good evening for you over there, right?

It is. Yeah.

Right on. So where are you located? You are in the UK?

In, uh, Leeds in the UK.

Right on, so you are, let's say, 8 hours ahead, is that correct?

Yeah, that's it, yeah, 8 hours.

Good, good, good. Well, first of all, thank you for coming on the show over here, I appreciate it.

No problem.

I actually got introduced through one of our extra milest Facebook members. He said, you know who has been really fascinating? You should talk to Jonathan. And then I came across your Strava account And he said, yeah, he's all into heart rate training as well. And then as soon as I saw some of the things that you had accomplished, wow, congratulations on your journey so far, man.

Yeah, yeah, not doing too bad.

Definitely. How long have you been into running at all? Where did it all start for you?

I've probably, it started when I were at school, but obviously shorter distances. And then it developed when I left school onto running sort of like 10Ks. That was probably the maximum sort of distance. And then I spent time in the army. I was in the army for 22 years and I represented them in the cross-country team. So I did quite a lot of cross-country. Okay. And then after that, Probably only sort of the last 5 or 6 years I've got onto more sort of endurance. The main aim is marathon running. Represented the Army for a couple of, couple of years doing marathon running, and it's all taken off from there really. That's definitely my distance.

Yeah, so when was it that you ran your first marathon?

It was about 6 years ago.

6 years ago.

Yeah, and it was a trail marathon. It was quite a difficult course. I think it was 4,000-foot elevation over the course, so it was my first one.

That's a good way to get into it.

Yeah, yeah.

Right on. Tell me about the first marathon experience. What was it like?

I didn't really know how to pace it to start with. I didn't really do the proper training for it. I just basically jumped in headfirst and went for it from, from the start. I'd say when I got to about 20 miles, because of my inexperience, started to struggle a bit, especially with the hills. I didn't really have proper fueling plan in place. And then, uh, obviously after that first one, we've been a bit of a struggle. I then started to try out different methods of training and then develop, you know, so I could improve myself.

What were, what were some of the things that you came across in your journey to improve as a runner?

I think probably the main thing with marathon running was the endurance side of things, is the aerobic fitness. Obviously, I tried different methods and I found that in the end, you know, the best method is to run to the heart rate, a lower heart rate. That's when I discovered, you know, looking into it and I found the Maffetone. Method. And then I tried that, probably— that was probably about, about 4 years ago. And, uh, once I'd done a couple of marathons, and then I then jumped straight into doing a 100K. So my first 100K event, and, uh, all I did then was marathon training. I didn't do any speed work or anything. And it was over another hilly course, over some mountains in the UK. And I managed to win it.

No way!

Yeah, so it went from there.

Wow, so walk me through this transition for you, because both you and I have been training at MAF low heart rate for several years now. You discovered it 4 years ago, I think I'm at 6 years already. When I first started training with it. So walk me through your training before you were doing low heart rate training and then once you discovered MAF, like how that changed your training.

Before I discovered MAF, I'd say most of my runs I was going too fast. My mileage, I couldn't get it that high, probably 30 or 40 miles a week., and I'd pick up more injuries. I was basically working too hard, you know, trying to achieve what I wanted to achieve, which is probably 90% of runners make that mistake, they go too fast. And then obviously when I started to slow down, things started to improve, less injuries, and I got fitter.

So what was your training pace before this, and how much did you have to slow it down? Like, how did you calculate all of this?

Uh, before, I was probably— most of my runs I'd be doing like 7-minute miles. Um, faster runs, I'd be going as fast as I can, um, probably 6:30 pace. Uh, I found that it's a, it's a game of patience with Maffetone and low heart rate training. It felt that I wasn't going to get anywhere when I first started. I was probably looking first run 9.5-minute miles, which for me was ridiculously slow, and I thought this is never going to work, but I stuck at it. And then I'd say quite quickly after 3 or 4 weeks, that 9.5 minutes started to drop to 9 minutes. And then I kept a record of it. I made a graph. I could see the graph going up slightly. And then I found after about 12 weeks, you can get to quite a decent level of fitness. Once I reached a plateau doing that, this is like later, obviously. First of all, I just ran a marathon. And then to try and develop it that little bit more. Once I reached a plateau where I wasn't improving anymore, I'd then add a little bit of speed work, but I wouldn't increase the heart rate too much. It'd only be a slight increase, and I'd do long intervals. So the intervals are generally 2 miles. I'd say when I started off, I'd do mile intervals, say 2 or 3 of them, So how would—

hold on one minute. How would you do intervals and not increase your heart rate too much? Would you do them on a downhill or—

You can do initially, you can do it on a downhill. You can put a block underneath the back of a treadmill. So that's going downhill. You can do what I call strides, which are like short sprints. So you're keeping your heart rate low. Below marathon, and then you walk recovery, and then you, you know, you can do like 10 of them. Um, or I'd jog below marathon heart rate, and then I'd do my 1-mile interval at marathon, and then I'd jog at lower heart rate, and then I gradually over time I'd start to increase. So I was, you know, creeping it above Maffetone, but only when my speed started to develop. I had no set program, it was just seeing how my body reacted. When it started reacting, I then had something else, you know, not— so I'm not giving it too much stress.

Let's, let's step back one, one part over here because I think this is such a fascinating topic and I think a lot of people are going through this where they're training at a certain pace, all of a sudden they come across this methadone method of training, low heart rate. They realize they use the 180 formula to calculate what heart rate they need to be at, at a, at a max level. Um, and, and 10 beats below it, kind of like that zone. So how did you calculate this for you? Can you walk me through that calculation, how it started 4 years ago?

I did it exactly the same with the 180. Minus my age. And then, 'cause I had no injuries, I added 5.

So you are 49 at this point, right? Yeah. And so at that point you were 45?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So the heart rate you were training at was quite low at that point.

Yeah, it was, yeah. Like I says, when I started it was, Even though I was quite fit, I was dropping from running 7-minute miles to 9.5-minute miles, which for me was a massive drop. It paid off in the end with patience and sticking with it.

Absolutely. How did you get through those first few weeks? Was it hard for you to believe in the system? Were there any tricks or do you have any tips of how other people can stick with this?

I think keeping a record. I quite enjoyed seeing the gradual improvement, so writing everything down, writing the runs down, how I felt. I'd have probably 5 different routes. I'd change, one route would be flat, the next route would be quite hilly. I had an off-road route. And then I'd see the improvement on each of those routes. So I'm running exactly the same route. And then also I use the track as well. That's a, you know, a good place to test your fitness, see if your improvement's there, because it's exactly the same. You know, the only thing that's going to be different is, you know, the heat or the weather, you know. Yeah.

Would you do a math test as well?

Uh, I'd say I wouldn't do it strictly math. I probably did, uh, I think it was like 5K at my, uh, math heart rate, and that was sort of like my test. Yeah, to see how I was getting on.

Yeah, talk about the journal a little bit more because I've come across that several times. I journal myself quite a bit. I found it very helpful to see to see what is working and what is not working. Not just from a mileage perspective, but even from testing nutrition and testing certain gear. Kind of over time you start seeing certain patterns. Do you write it down pen and paper? Do you write it down in your Strava? How do you go about things?

I write it down in pen and paper. Obviously, my Strava's there for a record. Yeah, I always wear— I mean, these days I wear two watches, mainly so I can monitor my heart rate. One's my GPS watch, that does me distance, me time, and then I've got a wrist-based heart rate monitor and then me chest strap as well. Okay, so if one goes wrong, I'm there all the time.

You're like on a whole nother level of heart rate training. Like, I thought that I was into it, but You actually wearing two watches is a whole nother level again over here.

The only thing I don't, when I race, I don't look at my heart rate or anything, my pace, nothing. I just run to exactly how I feel. Yeah.

Yeah. So talk to me a little bit more about after you started heart rate training, what sort of race improvements did you start seeing? Obviously you just mentioned you won like a 100K, which is amazing. But how about your marathon performances? How did those improve time-wise?

Yeah, my marathon performance has improved massively. My first marathon, even though it was an off-road one, I think I did it in 3 hours 40. And then my second one, which was a road marathon, I was just over 3 hours. 3 hours 10, 15 or something like that. At that point, I was, uh, my base training was Maffetone, but then I started adding that little bit of speed work like I mentioned earlier, yeah, with a gradual increase. And I think the other thing that has helped me improve my times is putting more miles in. I'm quite big into my high mileage at the moment. I think in the last sort of 10 weeks I've done 100+ miles every week. You're an animal. Up to 120 miles a week. And obviously I'm working full-time, so sometimes it's quite difficult to fit in. So because I've gone so high at the moment, I've split it in half, and I used to run 2 hours a day, which for me seems to work very well. And then on a weekend I'll do a 2.5-mile long run at quite a decent sort of pace.

How do you, how do you combine a full-time job with— I saw in your last Strava week, 118 miles, I believe. Yeah. Like, you run so consistent with your mileage. I just saw it gradually, gradually going, and 118 miles, how do you do it on a daily?

I think I just get into a routine. So I more or less do the same sort of 2 hours a day. Like I mentioned, I'll get up at half 5 in the morning, and straight away, before I do anything, I'll just put my trainers on, put my shorts on, out the door, and I'm running straight into it. This is all low heart rate training because of the, uh, the higher mileage. Um, I'm probably about 15 beats a minute below my marathon pace. Um, if I'm feeling quite tired after a harder session, I'll probably lower it, to about 20 beats below Maffetone. It's like a recovery run. Keep it quite short. So on a morning I'll probably do about 5 miles at a real easy pace. On an evening, most days I'm running at 15 below Maffetone and I'll run for an hour 20 to probably an hour 40. And then on a weekend, I don't work weekends, so I can, you know, put a bit more mileage in. And I generally do on a Sunday, a long run, a consistent effort, you know, to more or less mimic what I'm going to go through in a marathon. And I'll do that every Sunday. So in that 2.5 hours, I'm looking at covering 24 miles, or up to 24 miles.

Yeah, because you have become so fast at a low heart rate. 'Cause even when I did some of the calculations, so 180 minus your age plus 5 is 136. But very many times you train, like you were saying, 15 or 20 beats below it. So I see you running at 115 or 120 beats per minute, and you're still able to run like 7-minute, sub-7-minute miles, which is very fast.

Yeah, I think it was, it's just sticking with it and over that period of time. I think when I initially started my base training, all I do is I run at marathon pace. So my 1:36, roundabout 1:36. I did, I built up my mileage up to running me 2 hours a day and then me 2.5 hours, but it was all at that pace. Then I found that when I stuck to 136, I got to a certain point and then I wasn't improving anymore. I found that greater improvement was when I dropped my heart rate and then I added me intervals, you know, just above marathon. Yeah, you know, if you get to a sticking point, you need to like change something with your training, otherwise you're probably just going to stay there.

Yeah, I've experienced the exact same thing as what you're just describing. After I was able to drop my math pace from like close to a 9-minute mile to about a 6:15, 6:10 minute mile. Yeah, after a while, after I was running 80, 85 miles a week, I just— it was too taxing on my body to keep running. Yeah, so that's where I started going 10, 15, 20 beats below as well. But I did start adding that speed work once or two times a week. Yeah, just to mix things up. And that's when I continuously started seeing improvements.

Yeah, when I found with the, the lower heart rate training The recovery as well, it's built your body to be strong. It's developed your capillaries, your muscles, your tendons, everything's got stronger. I never really get any sort of niggles. Odd time I might feel a little bit of tiredness when I first start running, but after a mile it's like my legs are just going. Right, okay, we're going for a run, let's go. And it just disappears, and I just get into it.

Yeah, talk to me about your warm-up and cool-down. Do you have any routine over there?

I normally do sort of like dynamic stretches. I used to do quite a lot of static stretches, but I found the dynamic ones a lot better.

Walk me through some of your dynamic stretches.

I'll do, uh, leg swings, so, you know, my leg stood up back to front, uh, side swings, um, I'll do squats, um, I'll do lunges. I'll probably do, you know, a couple of sets of like 7, so nothing too taxing. I pretty much do that before every run. And then when I go out the door, especially on a morning, it's— I start off at a real easy pace, but I find that I soon get into it quite quickly. Yeah. And then when I come back from my run, I'll probably do the similar sort of stuff, you know, squats, lunges. Just to loosen up my legs a little bit. I found a good exercise as well is if I feel a bit stiff, especially after my long run, you're just getting down into the squat position and then staying there for, you know, 30 or 40 seconds, and then do that probably 3 times, and it just loosens me off. The other thing I do as soon as I get in from a run, I have a a pint of milk straight away. Get some protein and a bit of fuel in there.

Yeah, talk a little bit more about nutrition. What works for you, what doesn't, what have you changed over the years throughout your training cycles?

Yeah, right, I've tried all sorts with nutrition, trying different things. I tried a keto diet, which I think it works really well for, say, a distance over 100K where the pace is not going to be too fast. But for the marathon, when I started to train a little bit harder, I found that on a night I got night cramps, which was probably due to a lack of electrolytes. I used to supplement with electrolytes, but I still got these night cramps, so I have to change my diet. My diet at the moment, I don't eat any meat. I eat as much fresh fruit, vegetables, fish as I can. I eat quite a lot of things like nuts, rice, potatoes. I drink quite a lot of water. I found that that helps with your recovery as well. Absolutely makes the difference. Yeah, hydration and keep your electrolytes topped up, especially in the, uh, like the hotter sort of months. Uh, one of the main things that I changed and I found a massive improvement which helped me to run at a slower, lower heart rate was that I don't have any caffeine whatsoever. Completely cut it out.

And for someone living in the UK, like, I see a lot of, a lot of people over there drinking quite, quite a few coffees. Yeah. Was that a big adjustment for you?

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it still is when I'm at work and, you know, you always get someone coming up to you, do you fancy going for a coffee? And I'm like, well, yeah, I can do, but I'm having a coffee.

Yeah, yeah, I can, I can see that one. Was— so basically through the potatoes and the rice and all the veggies, you're still able to get in quite a bit of carbs, but you're getting them in in a natural way at this point, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's it, yeah.

Yeah, okay. How did you figure out what for you the right nutritional combination is? Is there certain ways that you're able to listen to your body with, like, I need this many carbs? Do you count carbs at all or is it more what comes natural to you?

No, it's probably what comes natural. I mean, if I've got a, I've got a race or anything come up, I'll have more carbs. If I've got a long run, I'll probably, you know, on a Saturday, I'll have a bit more on the carb side of things. After me harder sessions, I'll go more towards protein, obviously for the recovery, but with carbs as well, because, you know, to top up them carbs straight away. It's quite a simple, straightforward diet to me, just fruit and vegetables, and I don't have any meat.

Yeah, yeah, good. Well, you found what works for you, and yeah, you've improved significantly. And I think that's the most important part. I think a lot of people try to stick with something because they have heard about it. Like, they either hear about keto and you gotta do this or that, and I've personally tried keto as well and it didn't, I didn't feel optimal during my marathon racing either when I was, when I was eating keto. And that's why I think trial and error and just truly listening to your body. And I think your journaling is such a great tool there too.

So yeah, I think everybody's different. So like you said, you know, each individual, you've got to try different things and then you'll find something that works and you can try something else with you know, you might try different stretches, or you might try adding a little bit of different sort of speed work, or it's just tweaking your training. Yeah, it's not just your training, your diet, and, uh, how your mind works as well. Yeah, absolutely.

Mental strength. How, um, how is your race strategy from a nutritional standpoint? Point? What do you eat the morning of your race and then what do you eat throughout the race?

Okay, on an evening before a race, probably a couple of days before, I'll make sure I'm properly hydrated. I'll start to build up my carbohydrates. On an evening, I'll have quite a high carb meal. I'll try and get an early night, and then—

What would that high-carb meal exist of?

Pasta, rice, potatoes with vegetables. Mm-hmm. On a morning, I'll just have a bowl of porridge with banana, and that's it. The other thing I found interesting as well is If I eat a meal and then I run, say, an hour after the meal, my heart rate's slightly higher. If I eat a meal and I run 3 hours after, my heart rate's a little bit lower. So, say, before a marathon, I'll have me porridge, bananas on the morning, and that'll be about 3 hours before the race. Just before my race, I'll have an energy gel. When I'm training, I don't have any gels. I only have them when I do a race. And obviously that's a marathon. If I do anything shorter, I won't have anything.

And then how often do you take gels throughout your race?

I have one every half an hour.

One every half an hour.

Yeah.

Do you set an alarm on your watch or do you just—

No, I just keep glancing at my watch. And the other thing I do, it's like a mental thing, I carry all my gels in my hand. So it's like counting them down, I know I'm getting nearer the finish. It seems to work for me, so.

Then again, whatever it is, whatever that little trick is that works, that's awesome, man. And so you take about, well, at this point, What is your PR right now?

It's just above 2 hours 30, so it's 2 hours 30 and 50 seconds. Which race was that at? That was at the Yorkshire Marathon in the UK. It's not too far from where I live.

That's an incredible, incredible speed right there. And so, when you go into a race like that, What pacing strategy do you have? Do you, do you, because you're saying you race really by feel at that point, you said you don't really look at heart rate anymore.

I didn't, I didn't really know what pace I was going at. It was, uh, there's a guy who's, uh, he's an elite British runner called Paul Martelletti. He was in the same race, so I just tried to stay near him as long as possible, and I lasted 18 miles. Wow. And I think I was doing about 5:35 pace, so a lot faster than I'm used to. And then I just hung on for the last 8 miles at hopefully a little bit slower pace.

Right on. And now you have several goals coming up. Can you talk a little bit more about your short-term goals and your longer-term goals as well with running?

Okay, my first goal, I'm running London Marathon on the 28th of April, and I want to break 2 hours 30. My second goal is I turn 50 in September. I think I've got a marathon in October where I'd like to break 2 hours 30 again at 50. And then from there, ideally London the following year. I'll see how it goes, but the The British record is just under 2 hours 25, which is probably a big ask, but if I don't have dreams, I'll never get there. I'd like to break that record.

Those are some incredible goals to work towards, man. What are you going to be doing different during this race than your last race?

I think I've changed my training slightly. The main thing I changed with my training is doing my long runs at that faster pace. So to break 2 hours 30, I want to be running below 5:45 pace. So my long runs, I think I'm doing them at just over 6-minute miles, and I'll do 20 miles at that pace. About 6, probably just below 6:10, 6:10 pace. And on a 120-mile week, you know, that's, it's not too bad. And I feel quite good. I feel like I'm cruising.

Must be nice, man. It is. Running around a 6-minute mile and feeling like you're cruising. What heart rate is that at?

I run at 150, and when I've done a marathon, the heart rate's been up at 160. So who knows what'll happen. I find it quite difficult to get my heart rate up at the moment, which probably needs to work on my lactic threshold. So that'll be something I'm going to be looking into for the next sort of few weeks.

How would you work on that?

Probably long hills or intervals, say about 800-meter intervals at a faster pace. I'll try and keep the endurance side of things going, so if I'm doing 800-meter intervals, I'll probably do about 15, 16 of them. And then, uh, my longer intervals, I'm, uh, I'm gonna build that up. So I'm doing 6 times 2-mile with 1-mile recoveries, which will— it won't be recoveries, it'll be quite a steady pace. So that'll be 2 sort of long runs in the week. So I'll have one on a Wednesday which incorporates that 2-mile interval session, and then my Sunday long run, which is 2 hours or 2.5 hours. The heart rate for the longer run at the moment is like 150. I'm going to try and creep that up to probably 155, so it's getting nearer to that marathon sort of pace. It'll probably be a bit faster, hopefully.

Wouldn't it make sense, just throwing it out there, during a marathon to race actually by heart rate? Now that you're so familiar with heart rate and you know what heart rate you're able to maintain for X amount of time, wouldn't that make sense to then bring that over into your PR attempt as well, or not?

I've run to me watch before looking at my heart rate. And when I finished, I thought that I could have run a lot faster. So is that heart rate monitor giving an accurate reading? Have you got the maths right? Could I have gone faster? I'm going to go too fast. So that's why I just run it to how I feel. Yeah.

Yeah. I have noticed during race day itself, my heart rate is typically quite a bit higher, especially at the start of it, purely like race excitement. And I've stood at the starting line where normally my resting heart rate would be in the low 40s, and I'm looking down and I see 80. And that's purely like that excitement of I'm about to run, I've just tapered for 10 days, I'm a happy, happy runner about to like start going on a mission.

So yeah, that's— I do exactly the same.

It's, it's funny how that goes. Um, talk to me a little bit more about strength training. What do you incorporate there? What works for you?

What doesn't work for you there? Okay, my main sort of, uh, strength training, um, I've got a 25 kg bag, and I'll do squats with that bag on, probably 3 sets of 10. I'll do lunges. A really good exercise is if you elevate your feet onto, say, a chair and then go into a bridge and then lift, lift one leg up. That'll get your hamstrings really good. And hold it for, well, I'd say a minute, but first time you try it, you'll probably last about 15 seconds if you haven't done it before. A lot of core strength, sort of plank, side planks, again, holding it there for a minute. Do that for 3 or 4 times. One of the main strength sort of training, I find, is running hills up and down. Uh, uphill to strengthen your hamstrings, downhill to strengthen your quads. And, uh, you're also stretching them both as well, especially if you do it with a little bit more pace. You know, you're going downhill quite fast, you're going to be stretching your hip flexors. Then you're going uphill, you're stretching your Achilles tendons and all down the backs of your legs. Uh, that's— if you, you know, you don't— I'd say you could do light stretching before and after, but if you're running up and down hills, you're stretching your muscles as you go along dynamically. Yeah, that's why I try and get, you know, quite a lot of hills into my training.

So yeah, so the hills is, is one for sure over there. As far as for these, these other exercises that you had just mentioned, how often would you incorporate that throughout the week?

I try and do, do something every day. So I might do me legs squats twice a week, I might do me car twice a week, might do a little bit of upper body Um, so I just try and mix it up, you know, so I'm doing something every day. But it's only, it's only like 20 minutes worth. It's not like a full 1-hour session or anything like that. I normally do it, you know, just after a run. If I've done an interval session, I'm not going to do anything because my legs will be tired enough. I think they've got enough strength training.

Yeah, for sure. How much sleep do you get a night?

I try and get 8 hours as much as possible, which sometimes it's quite difficult with work and trying to fit my training in. I'd say on average I'll have 7 hours.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's such an important part of training as well. I've noticed even though it's, it's easier said than done for most people, especially when when you work full-time and you're trying to put in that many miles. But yeah, that's, that's a good one as well. So Jonathan, when you run in a race and you hit a tough spot, let's say mile 18, mile 20, and you know you're getting closer to that finish line but you still have another 10K to go, how do you get through some of those tough spots?

I'll— I can just 'Cause I've been there so many times, I can just pretty much run through it. 'Cause I've been to, you know, I've done races where I've gone through a really tough spot. And I think, you know, it never crosses my mind to, you know, stop or give in. I just want to get to that finish. And then 10 minutes later, I might feel great if I just fight through it. And so I just try and keep going, keep my mind focused. And I think I read it somewhere in a book, picked up this traffic light system. I don't know if you've heard of it before, where you just think in your head, green light, green light. If you've got the green light, you're all right. So think of this traffic light. If it goes to red when I'm struggling like that, right, I need to get it back up to amber. Right, I'm in amber now. Right, let's get it back to green. Right, I feel good now, I'm back in green. And then I'm going again.

That's good. That's a good way to look at it. So there's quite a few people listening to this podcast, like it is quite focused on becoming a stronger, healthier, happier athlete. And a lot of listeners are into low heart rate training as well. Yeah. For people wanting to improve in their running, whether they want to run a marathon PR, they want to qualify for a marathon like the Boston Marathon, or they want to run the sub-3-hour marathon, what are some of the tips that you would share besides some of the things that you have mentioned over here already for them to truly improve their running?

Patience. So stick with it even though Sometimes you might have a dip in your training. Say for example you're doing a marathon, you know, you run into your low heart rate. It doesn't always go up, you don't always improve. I've had, you know, it might be a couple of weeks where I've started to drop a bit, but I've stuck with it and then it's, it's gone back up and the improvements, uh, continued. Consistency. So for me, it's running 100-mile weeks, week after week after week. I don't have any rest weeks. I just keep it going. Um, but someone else, you know, it might be running 40 miles a week each week. Uh, keeping that record, you know, so you can see your improvements. Don't make your goals— I know I said I wouldn't mind beating the British over-50s record. Don't make your goals too difficult. If you keep your goals quite easily achievable, you know, you've got more chance of achieving them. So small steps make big improvements. Um, stick to healthy sort of nutrition plan and what works for you. I'd say the, the main thing is, you know, trying out different things. What works for one person doesn't mean it's going to work for somebody else, so it's just trial and error as you go along. And if you find something that works for you, stick with it, and then just tweak it and try other different things. And then eventually you'll get to a point where everything just fits together. And I think that I'm more or less getting there now. It only took me nearly 50 years, but—

That's good though. Like, it's that listening to the body to see, and to the mind as well, to see what feels right and what feels natural. And yeah, very well said right there. One part I'm curious about, you mentioned you don't necessarily put step back weeks in there and you're consistently right now at 100 miles a week. Have you experienced any injuries at all? Have you dabbled with, with any of that or are you like, this feels right to you right now?

Yeah, I've had, I generally get a little bit fatigued at some point, but No injuries, no sign of any injuries. Um, I just try and, uh, maintain my consistency. It seems to be working.

So yeah, why not? Well, and, and at the end of the day, right now you're training so much at a low heart rate. So the amount of pressure you're putting on your body is a lot less demanding as when you would be putting 180, 190 beats a minute on your heart every time.

Yeah.

That's it.

I find that a lot of my daily runs are a lot slower than your average runner's recovery run. So it just shows you that, you know, they're putting a lot of stress on their bodies. But for me, especially, you know, now I'm a bit older, that's one of the main things to remain injury-free. Strong and healthy as well. It's going to give me that health benefit as well.

Yeah, absolutely. What is a good place for people to follow some of your runs? Would that be Strava?

Yeah, I put all my runs on Strava and then I put all my races on my Facebook. Okay. Mainly Strava, I put everything on Strava. Okay, cool.

So that's on. I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes as well, and I will give a warning to the listeners at home: get ready to get your mind blown, because every time when I open my Strava newsfeed, I see another run from Jonathan at 6-minute mile at a heart rate of very low. Yeah, so good. Well, thank you very much for, uh, for sharing all of your experiences.

No problem.

This was really, really awesome and I learned several new things over here again as well. I'll make sure to link to all of the details and I wish you all of the best with your upcoming races. Let's definitely stay in touch.

Yeah, no, thanks for doing this. It's been a pleasure.

Alright, you have a good one, Jonathan.

Later. Cheers, thanks, bye.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Extramiles Show with Jonathan Walton. It would mean the world to me if you can take 30 seconds and leave a brief review of this podcast. It will get it in front of many more runners and it would help the show a lot. All show notes can be found on my website extramilest.com and many more episodes are coming soon. Thanks for listening and talk to you soon.

Bye now.