#66: Run Longer, Go Further! With Chris Hauth

I like to always say this isn't a question of if you're capable or if you're going to do said adventure, said event. It's only a question of when. And so we can build this slowly or we can build this and go right into it. But we risk that the when will take longer because of injury, self-doubt that comes up with injury. Am I actually capable of this? Oftentimes what I find most in the endurance space is people are very excited, energetic, focused early on once they hit enter on the event. And then after about 6 weeks, the doldrums come, right? That the real training comes where life starts getting in the way, fatigue starts accumulating, and now it gets hard.. And the gradually also allows you to sort of figure out your deeper why of why you're doing this.

Hello, hello. Before we dive into today's video, if you ever enjoyed any of the videos or podcasts on my channel, please do me a favor and hit that like and subscribe button here on YouTube and leave a comment while you're at it. It really goes a long way with the algorithms and it gets this podcast and show in front of many more people. It also helps book more awesome guests down the line. So thank you if you have been able to do that. Welcome to another episode of The Extra Mile List Show. On this podcast, I interview different guests about ways to become a stronger, healthier, and happier athlete. Today, a conversation with Chris Hout. He's one of the world's most respected endurance and ultra-endurance coaches. He's also a two-time Olympian, a former professional triathlete, and an ultra runner. He's the founder of AIMP Coaching, which unlocks the best versions of people through endurance experiences. In our conversation, Chris shares many insights for runners and triathletes to improve, not just physically, but mentally as well. And that's also one of the topics that I'm super fascinated about. Chris and I connected a while back about running gear and about running apparel. Recently, Chris completed 7 marathons in 7 days on 7 continents. And he was actually wearing PATH Project apparel, so running shorts, baseliners, and some of the shirts for that. And it was quite awesome to actually hear him put all of our gear through the wringer. We talk about his 7x project in much more detail in this conversation, and there are several things that he learned from that experience that you can take with you and apply to your own training, racing, and life as well. This episode is brought to you by Element, which is a delicious electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing that you don't. That means plenty of salt, potassium, and magnesium, and no sugar. Increasing my electrolyte intake has made a significant difference in my energy levels, in my quality of sleep, and no more brain fog or headaches. It really can make that much of a difference. I typically start my day with drinking a large glass of water of about 500 milliliters, that's half a liter, and I mix in one package of LMNT. It helps rehydrate and allows me to maintain my focus and physical performance. And I actually really like their packaging. You can decide how much water you want to put in, and that's how salty it actually becomes. And you will notice you can make it quite salty, or you can dilute it, but it tastes delicious. Go to drinkelement.com/flow to get a free sample pack of 8 flavors with your first box. That is drinkelement.com/flow. F-L-O. See also the link in the description. This episode is also brought to you by Ketone IQ. Ketone IQ by HVMN is a supplement that increases your blood ketone levels. Many people, including myself, find that increasing your blood ketone levels can greatly improve your cognitive abilities and your physical output for mental performance and for exercise. I use Ketone IQ for improved focus with work projects such as preparing for this podcast, and also on some of my longer and harder workouts. Andrew Huberman from the Huberman Lab podcast also speaks frequently about the benefits that he notices with using Ketone IQ as a brain fuel. I'm a huge fan of his work, and I'm noticing more athletes take this, such as Sarah Hall and Ben Greenfield. If you'd like to try Ketone IQ, you can go to hvmn.com/flow to save 20% off your order. Once again, that is hvmn.com/flow to save 20% off your order. Or if you're located in the US, you can visit any of the Sprouts locations nationwide. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Chris Hout. Chris, welcome to the Extra Mileage Show. I'm very happy to finally have this conversation over here.

Yeah, well, it beats us going back and forth with a newsletter and answering all the questions you had on email. I was excited to actually get a podcast going, a discussion, and a verbal description of the whole thing is always a little bit better.

Yeah, for sure. Because like, I've actually been following you and Rich in the early days since 2008 or something, because I think you and Rich Roll go way back already.

Yeah, right. We do.

How long have you coached him from those early days?

Yeah, I think it was like 2005, 2006 when we got started. And, you know, we've been working together ever since, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a long-term friendship in the meantime. And there's been a lot of trust and growth and experiences in between that to solidify the, the friendship. But even if there's no events, you know, you, you take care, you take detailed care of your friends. And Rich is a friend, so it's always easy to catch up with him or do adventures with him or, you know, come on the podcast.

Yeah, it really seems going on adventures together, doing training runs together, or doing training, any type of training together, doing actual adventures together and just going through that. Yeah. When you see each other in different parts, even when the onion is peeled raw and you see the true inner person like that, that's where I think some of these friendships really get to a next level as well.

Yeah. And that's why it's so important to have experiences to wrap your friendship around. I mean, it's one thing to cultivate them at home, but to really go deep into an experience with somebody, suffer together, experience sort of the vulnerability when you're deep in an endurance adventure together. Those things solidify and create a platform of friendship that will never go away because they are so rare. I mean, how many times in your life do you get opportunities to really go deep into an endurance adventure with a friend and see them in their most vulnerable state, and then you, right? So you're equally vulnerable, and it's been It's been eye-opening in a variety of ways. I just got back from an adventure like that that will solidify friendships and has solidified friendships already for life. I mean, these friends, nobody can take our experiences and what we went through away from us, and we'll always have that as a default to smile about and just sort of say, you know, I remember, don't worry.

Well, and And just looking at your resume of adventures, it's not that you go on small adventures. You literally just came back from a ride across America, and before that you were doing the 7X project with 7 marathons and 7 skydives and 7 swims in 7 continents in 7 days. It's just mind-boggling, some of these things. I do really want to talk about these 2 adventures in particular. Yeah, before we do, I think it would be would be good to, to scale it back a little bit and to dial it back because there's quite a few people listening here who are at different parts of their own running journey, their own endurance journey. And some people are just starting out, whereas other people are just looking to further improve in their, in their training and in their racing. Let's say someone is listening here and they have run a 5K and they want to go to a bigger distance, let's say a 10K, or someone who has ran a half marathon and they want start doing their first marathon or from a marathon up to an ultra. Like, do you have any high-level thoughts on how people can go about like getting to this new territory where sometimes this might be quite intimidating or like it's a new territory you haven't been to before? Can you share a few different thoughts there from your perspective of how to go about that?

Yeah, well, I always look for a curiosity first. Like if the athlete is curious to find out what's on the other side of that result, of that finish line, and what more they can be. Because the thing is, we all have a potential in us that can do quite amazing things, quite amazing endurance things. It's sort of how we're wired evolutionarily, right? We're not the strongest, we're not the fastest, but we've always been able to do things for a very long time, right? As well as, you know, tribes and so forth. But that being said, there is that potential within us, and gently unleashing that, unlocking that, is a huge component into this endeavor of going further. Because you achieved a 5K and you're curious about a 10K. You achieved a 10K, you're curious about a half marathon. If the curiosity is there, if that adventure, that excitement for an adventure, because you're going on an adventure, you're going on some sort of quest, and it's more about self-discovery than it is the physical aspect. You know, the beauty of ultra-endurance sports and even endurance sports, I define the two a little bit differently. Ultra is anything sort of that goes into a second day. Right? So, a 50-miler, yeah, but 100-mile or 100K, you're going into the night and so forth. So anyway, those are details. But when you expand on your endurance, you're discovering more about yourself. You're going on a quest, a journey, an adventure to not only on event day discover what you're capable of when you put it all together, but it's all the training leading up to that. It's all the time you spend out there going on a 30-minute run or an hour run or a 2-hour run. It doesn't matter. It's time to yourself in your head and being sort of centered into your own thoughts and so forth. So it's, it's twofold, mental and physical growth through this thing called running, which is amazing.

Earlier when we were talking, you mentioned working in versus working out. Can you explain what do you mean with that?

Yeah, well, a lot of us think about working out as something physical, external, you know, looking better, feeling better on the outside, you know, being leaner, losing weight, things like that. That's what they think of when you say working out. I'm going to the gym to work out. Well, in endurance endeavors, as well as just in general running, which is the beauty of running or long walks and so forth, you have an opportunity to work in as well. To work on your self-growth, your thoughts. It's sort of like a meditation. It's a daily check-in into yourself. And that's why I find endurance— and in the coaching I do, it's more about working in than it is about working out, especially once the distances get longer. You're realizing this is less a physical question and more a mental question. How do I keep myself my emotions, my thoughts in check to not let them overpower me and allow the chatter, the negative chatter in the mind, to not allow the imposter syndrome or the doubts to creep up and overpower what I would say is our intelligence. We know better, but when the emotions overpower our intelligence, it sort of puts us in a place that we're not making the best decisions. And in endurance training, i.e., also coaching, you're constantly learning that, managing emotions, managing your thoughts in order to continue to move towards that proverbial finish line.

Endurance sports are so mental and they play such a big role over there. And that internal voice that you're talking about, if you're able to have a positive conversation with yourself, or at least come from an angle of troubleshooting what's going on, what can I do at this moment versus, oh, the wheels are falling off and everything is negative. Or once your blood sugar levels drop or once your muscles get tired and just that mental component can really make a difference, right? That internal voice of—

Absolutely. We all have the monkey mind. We all have the negative chatter swirling around and we all have those doubts that come up. But it is a muscle. Mental fortitude, mental toughness is a muscle that can be worked and trained just like a physical muscle. And the more reps we have of talking to that voice, of listening to that chatter and sort of embracing it and saying, "I know where this is coming from." Like you said, it might be food. Maybe eat something and you feel better. Maybe you allow yourself some time, it'll pass. Peaks and valleys that we all go through during an endurance event. But also, just the familiarity that this will come up and knowing that you've gotten through it in the past and have visualized positive self-talk, like you said, humor is great. Going task to task, focus on smaller chunks versus this big overwhelming distance, right? Like 50 miles more, 100 miles more, like that's overwhelming. But I'm going to go 1 or 2 miles. I'm going to go to the next aid station. I'm going to go you know, to the next pole, whatever it is, it takes the emotion out of it, or it neutralizes the emotion. It doesn't take the emotion out of it. And again, I'm not saying that emotion is a negative thing. It serves us well all our lives. We just don't want it to overpower our intelligence. And that's an important aspect. And again, something you can train. Emotional fortitude, mental fortitude, mental toughness— those are all terms, but they're also, behind it stands reps and a muscle that you can improve upon. And especially in the longer endurance events, you go through a variety of disappointments, adversity, difficulties, and just knowing how to work with that, to face that with courage, with experience, with a sort of confidence of knowing, you know what, I've been here before. This is not unfamiliar to me, right? I know how to dance with this devil. And that's sort of the fun part in my coaching, I believe, for me, and seeing that come out in others where they get— have that extra layer of confidence of going, it's okay, I know what to do here. It doesn't stop it from coming up, but I know what to do here. I'm familiar with it. I have the tools. I've worked on the muscle to work with this.

So spot on the way you said that. And earlier you mentioned gradually, or like something along the lines of like gradually increasing that, that distance or that duration. And that is one other thing that I sometimes see people wanting to go from a 5K straight to a marathon or to an ultra, like couch to 100 miler, whereas that gradual adaptation is so important both physically and mentally there too.

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I'm never one to say no to what the human is capable of. I like to always say this isn't a question of if you're capable or if you're going to do said adventure, said event. It's only a question of when. And so we can build this slowly, or we can build this and go right into it, but we risk that the when will take longer because of injury, self-doubt that comes up with injury. Am I actually capable of this? Oftentimes what I find most in the endurance space is people are very excited, energetic, focused early on once they hit enter on the event. And then after about 6 weeks, the doldrums come, right? The real training comes where life starts getting in the way, fatigue starts accumulating, accumulating, and now it gets hard. And the gradually also allows you to sort of figure out your deeper why of why you're doing this. And that has to grow as well, because when you need to swing your legs out of bed at 4:30 in the morning, it's rainy, it's cold, and you have a 100-miler in, you know, 6 months, but you need these miles now, these gradual miles to build the cartilage, the ligaments, the muscle, the fascia, the structure, the durability, all that. It's hard. And trust me, after 25 years of coaching endurance athletes, it's not about at 4:30 in the morning or at 7 AM or 6 AM on a Saturday morning and you have a 4 or 5 hour run. It's not about being a role model for your kids because they're not awake to see you get out the door. It's about your own deeper internal reason why for this. It might be the finish line. It might be that curiosity of what I can accomplish. It might be just wanting to know what's on the other side of my potential and who I can be. But oftentimes it might be something else. And it's a discussion I go through with most of my athletes. We need a deeper why to sustain us when life and the mind gets in the way. That's—

there's so many similarities between how you show up in your training as in how you show up in your daily life too. And besides you training endurance athletes, you're also working with certain executives on coaching, correct?

Yeah. Yeah.

So what are some similarities that you have seen between like athletes showing up for training and athletes performing well in daily life? And are there certain lessons that can apply to both there?

I like to say who we are in adversity is who we are. And so the traits of how we deal with adversity, difficulty, disappointment, it comes up, it will rise to the forefront either way, whether with your family, whether in your career, whether in your own training, whether in your community, whether in your church, whatever it is. You can't hide certain aspects of you. They will come forward. And I use endurance as a vehicle to have that deeper discussion, to highlight that, because then we have something tangible to work with, especially with executives and so forth. But oftentimes it's a conversation on the phone where there'll be a long pause After I say, based off of their training or some of the excuses, and I say that in air quotes because it's not necessarily excuses. Life does get in the way. But I'll say, "This isn't the first time this has come up for you, is it?" And there's a long pause usually like, "What's this guy talking about and how does he know this?" But again, who we are in adversity is who we are. You can't hide it. You can't stop it. And so, That's the— that's why I believe endurance— there's other ways to come about it, don't get me wrong, to have the same discussion. But I believe endurance and training and consistency over time is a shortcut to the things we need to work on, where, as Steven Pressfield likes to call it, the resistance sits, right? The resistance and the voices and what is self-sabotaging us to reach our potential in anything, whether as a parent, whether as a business leader, or in our personal endeavors.

Yeah, spot on. It really does feel that even for me over the years, as I got more in tune with my body and my mind in running, that that indeed ended up showing as well in how I show up as a dad or how I show up as a husband or how I show up in my, in my business. And like, yeah, Those similarities are real.

And it's the questions you're able to ask yourself, right? And those are prompts that come up with practice over time. And it might start with journaling. I have a lot of my clients journal and just sort of just get into the routine of talking to themselves in the written word. But then the prompts come up of, you know, why did that come up for me? Why did I make that excuse? Why did I question that? Why did I treat that person? That way. So it just starts, and then you have time on long runs to sort of think that through, and it just sort of manifests in itself that you start observing your emotions, your behaviors, your actions in a, in a different way as a detached observer. And, and many people know that from meditation and mindfulness anyway, but the observer, being the observer is Oh, so powerful.

So powerful.

Yeah. And walking into your family situation, home from work and saying, wait, who do I want to be right now? I'm going to leave my work behind me and I'm going to walk in the door or walk in from the other room if you're working from home, which many of us do these days and just say, wait, I'm going to shed that identity. And now how do I want to show up for them? Right. Even just saying that you're the observer, you're talking third person basically about how you want to be. And that takes practice. It's a muscle to cultivate the same way.

So yeah. And after a while, even with the journaling, because same here, it is such a powerful tool that we use quite a bit from our end here too. Just as a tool, you start to recognize patterns sometimes. Like every Monday morning I'll write in my journal for an hour, like what happened last week in like a variety of different areas, including my running and my training. But then also what's the plan for the next week with some of the different things that I'm planning to work on? And after a while I started recognizing a pattern of like, I'm on my phone too much in front of my kids. And like, just I started writing that down a few times and like after a few weeks I was like, okay, this obviously is something that's not the first time that it's happening. And so you can start to pay closer attention to it. You become more aware of some of these, that inner chatter, and you start recognizing some of those patterns.

And it comes back to your values and principles, right? Like, you wouldn't notice that if you didn't have a value within you to be more present with your kids, for example, in that specific example that you bring up. So it, it is in turmoil within, hence why it rises up to the top and you're writing it down. There's something in conflict, and so that conflict, that resistance, that turmoil The ability to recognize those things, whether in our journaling or you're going on a run and you're just thinking, or there's many ways these thoughts come up. But that is the beauty of that self-reflection and being the observer because you tie into your values and principles. That's clearly important to me or else I wouldn't notice it. If I didn't care, it wouldn't come up. Yes. But it also is a good exercise to show huh, that's a value of mine. And the things that create that internal turmoil or those internal questions are clearly something that resonate with your values. And it's another way to back into what are my values and principles.

So yeah, it's all connected there. So we were talking earlier about gradually building up that further distance for the duration. But then now looking at what you have just done, even in the last few months over here, Tell me more about the 7X project and how— or Project 7X. How did this initiative like originate? Like what, what were you thinking going into it? How did you prepare for it? Tell us a little bit more about it.

Yeah, so I was approached by a few special operators about a year ago, a little bit less than a— yeah, a little bit less than a year ago. And they were asking about doing this type of adventure called, you know, the 7X Challenge, which turned out to be like the World Marathon Challenge, a standing event already where you run a marathon on all 7 continents in 7 days. And they take about 30 to 40 people at a solid price around the world. And you can run a marked finish line and start line marathon in each of those locations. And these guys were thinking about doing it from a charity aspect on raising awareness for mental health in the sort of special operations community, but mainly the military community, with regards to how can we reset the system, how can we stay physically challenged so that we have this growth opportunity, right? Mental health tied into purpose, tied into preventing suicide rates within the military community, which is about 10 times higher than it is in the regular US community. Oh, wow. It's extremely, um, unfortunate. And so the 7X Project was about learning and documenting and capturing the data of rebuilding a human, basically, when they're fully stripped down, exhausted, and, um, yeah, fatigued from an adventure like this, and resetting the system somewhat. But also, it was also to highlight how you care for your body and therefore your mind. And with that, in the operation— special operations community, there's very little education around nutrition, around strength work, around supplements, around how to care for yourself. And that's part of this— was part of this project in identifying, listen, you might have been doing things a certain way for many months, years in the military, but that's probably because A, it served you, and the strength work, let's say, um, and your special skills, but how can we make you a more wholesome, fitter, more durable, healthier human? And with that includes nutrition, supplementation, the different types of endurance and strength work that you can do to keep that purpose, to keep that passion, to keep that curiosity alive in order to continue to progress as humans. We are not wired to digress. We are not wired to stand still. The human brain and the human body is built on growth and progress, and when it doesn't progress anymore, negative things happen. You know, our cells are reborn, you know, every 7 days throughout our body. We have a completely renewable system at all times. And so that was the project, a big project. We made a documentary about it. We're making a manual for new operators in the community to care for themselves better so that they, A, can come off of a very heightened, stressful career or tours when they're out there and go more into rest and digest mode versus the cortisol levels being super high, completely on edge. I mean, it's powerful. And it is actually something I experienced on both adventures over the last few months of re-entry into normal life. Is I got a tiny little sense of it from these two adventures, being gone for two weeks on the road in a bubble, very close-knit friends. The world passes by. And you're doing these extreme adventures, having these super deep bonding experiences, and then you kick out the other side and here you are. You go back into your, air quotes again, regular life, and it's hard. And that's just me with my 2-3 weeks on the road or 4 weeks on— I spent a month on the road just now with the cycling adventure and I've already felt that re-entry comes with, you know, not only roadblocks, but, you know, it's littered with potholes. Let's just say it that way. Now you throw these guys in there, they're the best of the best in the special operating community— Navy SEALs, Delta Force operators, and so forth— and the depth and the power of their tours of 6 months 4 months or 2 years and coming off of very immersive experiences and very emotional experiences, losing friends, injury, trauma, explosions, cortisol levels always completely high. Now what is reentry like? How do you walk back into your family, into a day-to-day life? And it creates a lot of, back to our wording, inner turmoil and helping with that reentry, re-civilizing yourself back into society. Right. And we deal with this with pro athletes.

That's a really meaningful project that you have done there. And I think it touches on so many different elements. But that part there, I even hear it from amateur athletes who have gone through a big training cycle, they've trained 8 hours a week, 10, 12, 14 hours a week. All of a sudden the race happens and they feel a sense of emptiness or they feel a sense of now what, what do I do with my life kind of thing. Yeah. How do you deal with that? How do you have any high-level thoughts on, on some of the strategies that you go about there?

Well, if you, if I had the answers to that, um, things would be a lot better, but I do believe, um, fixing your gaze and aiming at something new, maybe not something as grandiose, but again, we need to think about the next, not necessarily challenge or adventure, because we can't just jump from adventure to adventure, but something to put your passion and purpose and thought and heart behind. And it is important to set some goalposts and fix your gaze at something off on the horizon to say, now I'm working towards that. It might be a new business venture. It might be a trip with your family. It might be taking on, um, a new class so that you're expanding your skills. Something to put your focus into, because otherwise, back to the monkey mind, it will want to take over. It will start questioning you if you're not busy. And we're meant to, again, have purpose and have drive. And that's sort of our reward system in our brain with dopamine and everything to sort of keep that drive going towards something. If we're not aiming at anything, we get very disturbed.

I find that sometimes in off-season when I haven't signed up for any future races and I'm like, I'm just going to train by feel or I'm just going to train by how I feel day today versus having, even if it's something 6 months down the line or 4 months or it does make a difference in sometimes like that, that purpose of getting out the door. It's not that it's otherwise without a purpose. You still do it because you feel good or you've seen a friend, but it sometimes does feel different.

It does. But I also believe it's closely tied to our ability to shift our identity into anything we want to at that point in time. What I mean by that is when you're in the off-season, you can still close your eyes and say, who's it, who's the athlete I wanna be in a year from now? And start living out that version of yourself so that then when you take action upon that version of yourself that you'd like to be, you're just closing that gap. We have the ability to be that person right away. So for example, for my guys that come out of the military, well, Now, what kind of person do I want to be? Who do I want to be? What does my future look like? And you might not have those answers, but you can already live in that identity of who you want to be. What does a family man do? What does a former operator do? What does being a business owner look like or feel like? And I can carry myself and live in that mental framework already as I'm gaining the skills to do that. Now you take the action of gaining those skills or doing that training or living out that version along with your mindset that's already there. It just reinforces that new identity even stronger with every day you're taking those actions. And it becomes part of, again, who you are ahead of time versus fumbling until you find that. It does take some exercise and work with regards to the direction you want to go, but that's why I say aim at something, it's not permanent. As you head down that path of aiming at something, you'll notice whether it resonates with you. You'll notice if it aligns with your values and principles of who you are now, especially as a former athlete or as a former operator. You know, you might have different values than you thought you did, especially from before you entered the military, but when you were a younger athlete, you've grown in the process. You've changed who you once were to where you are today. But by aiming at something and by heading down that path, you quickly recognize, no, no longer my values, no longer something I want to pursue. So I'm going to shift my gaze and aim at something over there, or different, or completely new. But being open to that and realizing that I need to aim at something versus flounder— and I know that sounds negative— but aimless is hurts. Aiming at something and walking down the path, you'll— something will present itself, right? There's a, there's a saying out there that says, I don't know where I'm going, but I know how to get there. And that's trusting in your abilities and the confidence in that your path will present itself.

Yeah. So, so well said. There's so many, so many different directions we can take this, one being like Once again, the time horizon plays a big role here too, where sometimes people think quite short-term and some of these goals might be very overwhelming in the short term. But if we zoom out and we take a longer, like thinking 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, like further out with that gradual showing up and that consistency, we can accomplish a lot. It's just getting those small wins over time to to get there.

How— longevity and consistency are superpowers, right? Especially us in the endurance world. We know that over time, longevity and consistency wins no matter what. There might be faster, there might be stronger, there might be smarter, but if I stay in the arena long enough, I will whittle down this field And longevity and consistency wins because again, it ties into values and principles. And if that's who I am, I'm not playing a finite game. I'm playing an infinite game. It's just who I am. Right. And then the other aspect I throw in there is that I recommend to most of my clients that goals are just objectives to check in that you're still on the right path. They validate I'm heading in the right direction. So let's take it even in a running perspective. I look— I want to someday run a 100-miler. Well, guess what? A 50K goal is an objective along the path to show I'm on the right path. I successfully did a 50K at 31 miles. It's on the path towards my heart. So boom, I can do 31 miles. I'm heading in the right direction. It's not always going to be a perfect straight line because the 50-miler we might struggle with, or the 100K, but at least I know, okay, I'm still heading in that direction. I'm growing along the way. I might have taken a detour here a little bit, but the 100-miler still sits out there. And those goals, those short-term goals, are check-ins to validate I'm on the right path. And so it becomes this: what's my North Star? What sits far out on the horizon? Where am I heading? Aiming at something again. And then what are the objectives along the way that validate I'm on my path.

And who you surround yourself with plays a big role in this part as well. I think it does. If you surround yourself with like-minded people who aim big, who aim for, for scary long-term goals, or you surround yourself with people who might be easily intimidated or they might be scared or not that adventurous, it can absolutely play an impact on how, where your mind is going to go. And I've seen that firsthand by joining an ultra running community like early on in my running days. First, I always thought a marathon was the furthest people would run until you surround yourself with people who run 100 milers and beyond. And then that almost becomes the norm. And so, yeah, I found that quite interesting.

Yeah, but that being said, um, I'm also sensitive and careful with like-minded because we also don't want to get caught up in self-validation and a bubble and confirmation bias too. So that ties into just where you are within your journey, and in some cases getting different views and getting those questions. And because I find the questions of naysayers or of non-like-minded people clarify for me my why. They clarify for me, yes, there's a reason I'm on this path. And it might not be a path others take, but it just solidifies why it's important to me, because I have to stand out amongst that crowd of people saying, but why? Why would you do that? That sounds ridiculous, right? Oh yeah.

So that's why I do like the sign behind you that says keep it weird, because at the end of day, some of these adventures that, that you're doing are definitely out of the, out of the norm from that perspective.

Yeah, for sure.

How did you train not just yourself but also your group of athletes for a big adventure like what you guys just did? 7 marathons in 7 days, 7 continents. You have very little recovery time. You can only sleep on the airplane. Like, how do you mentally and physically train for something that big?

Yeah, well, I came from an advantaged location because, right, these guys are already mentally pretty strong. They're used to doing something for 7 days in all kinds of conditions, staying awake, asking their body to do all kinds of things when prompted in the middle of the night, or no time zone relationship at all. So starting from there was a little bit easier, but they had never run a marathon. Wow. One of the guys had done an Ironman many years ago, but they were not fit enough to run 7 marathons. 2 others had never run before like this, more than a 5K, maybe around the golf course once in, in their life, right? So it was about building up over long term their ability to run back-to-back days. So that's how we started. My entire approach in, from a training perspective, especially for an adventure like this, is about simulations. And I back to what we were talking about before, because in simulations you learn more about yourself, you learn about your nutrition and hydration and your mindset and your strategy and your pacing and your recovery and your sleep and all those things. And so we built up general volume, like as if you were doing marathon training with some runs during the week and some longer runs on the weekends. That's all textbook. But then every few weeks we started with 5x. And what I mean by that is we did 5 days in a row of a set distance. So we started with 5x8 miles. That was our first— in our— after a month of training, we did 5 days of 8 miles. Just observe, take note how you felt, how you recovered, what happened after day 4. Like, where did the, the brain get separate from the mind? And fueling and hydrating. And then we went to 5x10. Then we went 5 by 13.1, then in a month or two later, 5 times 16. And then December of last year, we did 5 by 20. So that was going to be our biggest simulation, 100 miles in 5 days. You know, we're not getting— we don't need to be perfect and have 7 days of 20-mile runs. So that's how we gently built up over time. We did run into some injury concerns. I mean, these are not small light guys. And so we had some Achilles issues and we had some plantar issues and we had some low back issues. So we— I modified for them. But come late January, and we were leaving on Valentine's Day, February 14th, to all meet in Atlanta to fly on to South Africa. Everybody was healthy, everybody was ready, no niggles. Body was cooperating, most had done the volume, and I felt pretty good going into it.

What was one of the most challenging days, and why was it one of the most challenging days, and how did you overcome that?

So I live in a world of facing adversity, difficulty, and disappointment. That's sort of I thrive there. I love it. I love it mentally. I love being in those places. And on a side note, again, your listeners, many of them can relate here. When you're deep into that long run, whether it's 100K, a 50-miler, and you're just sort of tired, exhausted, your legs are just carrying you almost automatically, and you're just in that hurt in that place, that is where I love to be. It's just something magical there when you're stripped raw emotionally and physically, and then what version of you comes forward. I'm always so curious about that. And so this is what I'm trying to get others into, because you learn not only so much about yourself, but you also can see you get a glimpse of who you actually are, right? Like, I want to know. And I find most of our clients, many of your listeners, I think they're all curious about that same thing.

And that can happen at any different distance, really, right?

But the crazy thing is— I know we're going off the subject and I'll get back to your question. The crazy thing is you can be super fit and prepared for a 100-miler or a 200-miler or 130-miler. Like, there's all kinds of different distances. These days, um, point-to-points and stuff. And here you are, you're confident, you're prepared, and you're healthy, and you're excited. You've done plenty of long training runs, and we've all felt it. You're on a 100-mile run, yeah, and at 20 miles in you're going, oh my gosh, why am I already feeling— it's— the wheels are coming off. I've done 15, 20-mile runs in prep for this, felt way better than this. Why do I feel so awful right now? I thought this would happen 60 miles or it's 70 miles and it's overwhelming. You're sitting there going, what is going on? Like, why am I feeling this now? Or my hip flexor or my, you know, my Achilles or my calf. But then it passes and, you know, you get through it. And but yes, exactly what you said, that can happen at 10 miles, that can happen at the start line. That— so how the adversity, difficulty, disappointment where it comes up, how it confronts us, we don't have control over. What we do have control over is how we work with it and how we get through it, how we face it, how we dance with it. And so we on 7X quickly, by day 2, realized that we had no marked course, no logistics, no support, no transportation and nothing to go by despite having an advanced crew that had put out there like, this is the course, this is where we're going to be for support. That went off the rails for a variety of different reasons. So we land at the Perth airport and we had already faced a little bit of a disappointment in Cape Town that we had to put together a marathon there because weather pulled us out of Antarctica. Like we, but we would have been stuck there for many days. If we started our marathon there. And so we had to pull from Antarctica, go back to Cape Town and do our marathon there in order to start the clock. And we were busy finding a jump site and the plunge was easy because it's right there. Cape Town's on the water. So we're already designing our own marathon course that we get to Perth, Australia. And with the time change, because this is the only time we went from east to west. So we lost hours. And Cape Town to Perth is no short flight. So not only is the flight a little bit over 10 hours, but now you land 5, 6, 7 hours later, right? So instead of, you know, 6 AM, it's noon. And we still have a skydive, a marathon to run, and a plunge to do. And our flight for Dubai leaves at like 8 PM, right? By the time we make it through customs, because there's a variety of snafoos that happen there as well. It's 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Now we have 4 hours supposedly to get back to the airport after doing a marathon and a plunge. So I'm like, not freaking out, but I quickly start not panicking. But my brain goes into execute mode. I'm like, guys, Everybody, let's grab your luggage, get your shoes. I don't care what you have to wear. I don't care if we have to run in a swimsuit or in your skydive suit. We need to get started on the clock. We need to figure out a marathon course. And that's the thing. We never had a designed course. We would just start our Garmin or start our watches and, well, there's mile 1. So I'm sitting on Google Maps at the Perth airport going, okay, if we run out of the airport through this industrial complex along the highway, We might make it to downtown Perth where there looks like to be water fountains and parks that we can run along a trail to get some water, get some support, like, and shade. It's 97 degrees out at this point. And so the guys being the guys, they look at me, they're like, roger that, here we go. So we put on our running shoes, we run out of the airport, past the parking lots, through this industrial area, running on a highway that must have It's 97, but real feel was like 110 or whatever. And trucks and cars passing us and we're trying to— I'm running with my phone. On the one hand, it was the day that it all became clear that we're on our own with getting this done. And again, not in criticism, it's just everybody is new to this. They're not used to organizing a marathon and things going completely sideways from a logistics standpoint. Luckily, I've been in this for many years. I'm like, we'll figure it out. We'll put it together with Band-Aids and duct tape. But the fun was it quickly turned into a totally different experience, right? We had people taking Ubers to a certain point and handing water out of a car to us in order for us to get some sort of hydration in us because we didn't have anything with us or electrolytes. I mean, we came out of the airport. We bought a case of water at the duty-free shop in the Perth airport because, you know, Wasted a lot of money there, but we needed hydration and finally navigated a course that then construction had closed down. So we basically ran a 2-mile out and back in this park in Perth, Australia, along the river in downtown Perth in order to get our 26.2 miles in. And we all confirmed our watches, you know, so that everybody has the same distance and A couple of the slower guys weren't able to complete it. It got dark there. And in Australia in general, even in the city of Perth, whatever is out there is not friendly to humans. It's like no human was designed to live on this continent of Australia. It's— there's adverse conditions. Everything's harsher. So the mosquitoes and the, the gnats that came out along the water on a summer day because it's February, it's their summer. It was insane how they attack you. So we had to get out of there. We had no support. We had no lights to run in. We're in the dark. There's gnats and mosquitoes attacking us from everywhere. Luckily, I'd finished my marathon with another guy. We jump in the river. Turns out there's alligators and creatures in there that we had no idea about. We quickly get back out of the water, but we did our plunge. But the water is warm and murky. It's definitely not the experience we wanted. And then the guys get in an Uber, had 4 miles left to run. So they're running laps around the airport while we're waiting in line at customs. They're in the parking lot running circles around the airport and eating slices of pizza because we needed some food. And from that moment forward, I knew I'm dealing with guys that are going to get this done no matter what. And it just set the tone for the rest of the week. From being detained in the Colombian airport because a variety of the guys didn't have their COVID paperwork with them, or they refused to do it. As well as then when asked by the Colombian customs agent, um, do you have your COVID paperwork? And they're like, yeah, maybe. Next thing you know, they're segregated into a different group. They're panning around of fake COVID passes, right? And the Colombians quickly got a hold of that, and they were all detained in a room. So what happens, the U.S. Embassy and the agents in charge there— and they all knew what we're there for, and the military community was quite supportive, and the DEA agents that worked there with the Colombian government— quickly went to the local Walmart or the equivalent there and bought two treadmills for the guys in detain. And so in a white room at the airport on the second floor with no windows, they're running a marathon on a dinky treadmill that's not nice like the ones we're used to from, you know, the Equinox in, in, in LA.

These are like the, the, the, the belt, the bouncy ones, the ones that make a lot of noise.

The whole thing's falling apart. There's no buttons, there's no screen. They're staring at a white wall, but they're like, you know what, 26.2 miles, we'll get it done. So it was a constant, um, dealing with adversity, difficulty, and disappointment like that. And they loved it, seeing these guys thrive and smile in it, because they love the chaos. They love the chaos, and they're so familiar in chaos. And yes, it's the US military, and these guys are so used to planning and organizing and scenarios and, you know, thinking ahead. But then when everything starts falling apart and you have to figure it out on your own, these guys were all smiles. And it was a privilege to be in that with them, with operators and people that are so used to thriving in chaos, to learn and be in it with them. It was— that just made the experience, oh, so much more powerful for me.

What an experience and so many challenges. Like the running component was the easy part. It was all the other stuff around it.

Yeah. And then we were skydiving in Egypt over the pyramids, but it turns out that we put the timing wrong and we had local Egyptian security forces who closed off the entire pyramid park so that we could run there because otherwise it's not really safe to be running around Egypt like that, especially the city of Cairo. And but we timed the skydive before the marathon, and they thought we would do it the other way around. So halfway through our marathon, we got pulled off the, the run course that was, you know, coned off for us. Well, we still had, you know, 6 to 8 miles to run, and now we're stuck. We're like, we got— we have to get this marathon done. And so here we are dodging traffic, not running, in a little bus, you know, with a carpet on the top and like little things hanging all over around it, driving to some sort of western hotel where we could just do laps in the parking lot in order to remain obviously safe, but also to finish these 6 to 8 miles. So there we were on a soccer field in, you know, in the, in a western compound running circles for another 4 hours on grass. But again, you get it done.

You guys did what in, in 7 days what most people wouldn't even do in like a full lifetime of running. That, that sounds like a lot to digest for the mind and for the body.

So it was, it was, but the stories and the experiences from it are And again, for a greater cause. I mean, it was what we came home to and the people that we supported with it. It was really powerful and it continues to live on. Yeah.

Somewhere on your Instagram, I read something along the lines of like when talking about the topic of failure, something far outside the realm of your current training, somewhere between achievable and curiosity. Can you talk a little bit more about that and your thoughts on failure and setting big, scary goals there?

If you know you can do it, you won't apply all your faculties and mind to it. Right. And we've all experienced that. Where if I know that I can do it, it does not bring forth our best effort. And it, it comes with almost a philosophy of life of, do you want to live doing, operating at a B-, C+, and not applying all of your ability? Or do you really want to push yourself and ask everything of yourself at an A or A- or A+ to really push the boundaries of what you're capable And I think it's very important to have a sense of failure and risk of failure and risk of greater concerns within some of these adventures. Otherwise, you're not in that flow state. You're not in that challenge-skill threshold. Because beyond failure, on the other side of failure, that fear of failure, that that devil that sits on the wall between your current reality and opportunity that sits on the other side and growth and a new reality and expansion of ourselves. Fear sits on that wall. Fear blocks your entry to that world. And if it's not there, it would not make the achievement of that new outcome so meaningful. And I think fear is a huge component to setting big, scary, audacious goals, because your ability to really fear the failure, really fear in some cases for your life, in some cases with that you don't ever achieve the outcome, that it requires all of your attention and focus to get this done. Again, I think it turns on signals in our body and our mind that are untapped in many other aspects of our daily life.

Spot on. It really is. I want to share one adventure that I'm planning to do with a few friends next month that I'm scared of and that brings me a ton of excitement as well. Like, I'm a runner. I'm not a triathlete. Athletes in any way. Like, I, I grew up being fearful of swimming. Like, I always had ear infection. I could, I could swim to survive, and that was about it. And yet last year I started dabbling around with like, all right, let's start swimming in the pool a few times here or there. And so now I came up with this idea of, let's see if there's a way. We live here in Southern California, and so you have the ocean and you have the mountains. You have Mount Baldy in the background and you have the ocean, and in between you have about 70 miles of road. So I was like, what if there's a way to swim in the ocean in the morning for about a mile, ride our bikes for 70 miles to Mount Baldy, to the visitor center at 4,000-foot elevation, and then run up Mount Baldy to like 10,000-foot elevation? And so last week I did my first open water swim. I'd never done an open water swim. Swim. And literally, I was in the middle of a bay, and my cramp— my, my leg started cramping up to a point that I'd never cramped up that bad before. I was like, what? That was a complete new experience. And then that luckily went away. Then a few days later, we did like a 1-mile swim in the ocean. And this was the very first time for me swimming in the ocean. And just that part right there, like, of the thoughts of like, all right, this is shark territory. There's literally 5 years ago, there was a lady attacked by a great white in that area where we swam.

Oh, there, there.

And so just that thought process, it was such a mental component. But when I got out of that water, we did a little test ride, just jumped on our bike. It was such a sense of accomplishment of like, all right, there's that. And I feel like this becomes starting to become a reality, starts to become doable. But still thinking about having to bike for 70 miles, even though Even though I grew up in the Netherlands where we ride our bikes, that's like riding to the bar or riding back, and that's not, not riding 70 miles on a bike kind of thing. So yeah, there's a lot of logistical components to it because even now there's still like snow on the top of Mount Baldy and it's going to be a bit of— but it's going to be one of those. It's, it's together with like 3 different friends with like Andy Blow from Precision Hydration. I believe you know him as well. And then my friends do Luke and Joseph. So yeah, that's, that's going to be my, my adventure here.

Yeah, and it's an adventure that it will come with many trials and tribulations and stories within it. Um, now throw into it there is no expectation, right? You might have expectation for yourself, but expectation adds another layer of risk and difficulty to Sorry for my dog barking in the background.

You're good.

She's upset with something. But so you put all those components together and it creates a higher level of stress, right? Like let's say we have to do this in 8 hours. That's a different question, right? So that's oftentimes what we have to unwind too on these adventures. Like, wait a moment, I'm creating my own expectations. I created this adventure, right? I can— however I do it, I'll do it. And that's the important thing also, to find sort of that sweet spot where I'm not overwhelming myself but I'm still able to execute on the vision of the adventure that I put forth. Self-curated adventures are a whole new ballgame. A lot of them came up during COVID and that's sort of the space that I enjoy the most right now, creating the adventure on, you know, whether it's in your community, whether it's in the resources, natural resources around you, right? For me, it was during COVID it was a lot of Lake Tahoe. I swam the length of Tahoe, then I ran around the length, around Tahoe. So it all, you, you, you build your own adventure, but the fun in it is how hard can I make it, right? And where's my hard in this? And it sounds to me like you're making it hard with the swim. Can you do the bike ride? If you close your eyes, you probably can say to yourself, yeah, I can figure out how to do this bike ride. It's not a question of if, it's just a question of how long it'll take, right? Can you do the run, hike, walk up to the top of Bald Mountain? Of course, right? But you insert your own level of suffering by making it harder with your own expectations. Well, I'd like to run all of it, right? I don't want the bike ride to take 12 hours. I want to do it in, let's say, 5 hours, things like that. But that's the fun of self-curated adventures. You can insert your own thing. Now, how I would work with you, I would challenge you to do more. You're capable of this. This isn't a question of how you're going to do this. Even with the swim, Even with the swim, right? Like, for example, let's add a layer of difficulty to it. And I'd say, Andy, Floris, how about we do that swim in the dark?

Oh, dude. Seriously.

Before sunrise, right? And you start, like, again, where is the mental growth? Where is the fear? And then taking that fear and leaning into it. How do I confront that fear? Because going forward, let's say you did that. Just think for a moment who you'd be on the other side of having swum in that scary ocean in the dark where the imagination runs wilder and the risks perceived, they're no higher than during the day, but the risks perceived are way higher. But who you are on the other side of that will normalize any time you swim in the water during the day. You'll be like, I did this at night. I'm just saying, oh no, I see how we can always, we can always massage the adventure to define your hard, define your suffering, define your resistance, define your fear. And now let's add a component to that that truly makes it what's called a misogi, right? Where you sort of, it's a life, it's a game-changing experience. I am no longer the same person post this. And I ask this of a lot of my athletes, like, who will you be on the other side of this? And will it be a game-changing thing? If not, okay, then it's an event and it's goal and objective along the path of where you're aiming towards. But that thing on the horizon, who you are on the other side of it needs to be somebody different. Yeah. Because now you're having that experience.

So, so spot on. That being said, I literally did my first brick run of 3 miles after we rode up, like, so we did the swim, then like did a bike ride of whatever, 40 miles. And like, for me, right, riding 19 miles an hour is fast. Like my— yeah, after after swim, then that thing. And so then doing my first ever brick run, I could barely— like, my legs didn't know what was going on. It was like such a new experience once again. So I'm like, we still got to go up a mountain. Like, yeah, yeah. So I think one, one step at a time there. But you make a very valid point though of like, how can you, yeah, make a tweak to it and, and set it up in such a way that you maximize Yeah, that as well as why am I doing this?

Who do I want to be on the other side of it? I would say that's a question to ask yourself in any endeavor, not just you, but one to ask yourself, one to ask whenever we're taking on anything, whether it's a 5K, like why am I doing this 5K? Who do I want to be on the other side of it? Where is it going to— what do I envision this growing me? How will it grow me? And if it's just for, I want to get in shape, well, then you just said, I want to get in shape for what? For a new version of you? In order to do a 10K? In order to jumpstart my fitness, my potential of what I could be? There's so many things to unravel there, but that curiosity and that continued conversation, that's where the energy lies. That's where the potential lies in, in people, that it's like, okay, you're doing that for, but just think of who you're going to be then and what momentum we can carry from this.

So it's so exciting. It's nerve-wracking exciting. But once again, once we get to that border of like, all right, we've never been here, we might fail. But then again, let's see how, how we can make it work. Let's have an open mind. Troubleshooting. Yeah, that's— yeah, I want to be respectful of your time here. I have two more questions. First of all, where can people find out more about you, about your coaching, about all of the different things that you're up to?

Yeah, well, I'm— now that I've done this Instagram thing, it's sort of fun. So you can— I'm AIMP Coaching, A-I-M-P Coaching. Um, and that AIMP stands for Advancing the Integration of Mindset and Performance. That's why the acronym AIMP. So AIMPcoaching.com, AIMPcoach on Instagram, on social media. And yeah, just, it's easy to find me on chris@aimcoaching.com too, on email. So right, I'm always open to a discussion. I enjoy this, this discussion with anybody where it's like potential, unlocking potential. You know, I live by a certain quote, and that is, if you choose to remain who you want to be, if nobody challenges you to be something more to what you can become, you're sort of missing it. And, you know, I always believe in that version of someone on what they can become. And supporting them on what they become, not who they currently are.

And a lot of people underestimate that part. A lot of people think way, way too small from that, from that perspective.

Indeed, we're all potential. The word potential is like this energy bundle that is a superpower waiting for all of us. Potential in any aspect of our lives, potential as a family man or woman or as a mother or as a partner potential in business and potential in expanding yourself, not just physically, mentally, but also in your, in your profession, in your growth there, in gaining new skills. And potential is just— that word carries such power.

Do you have any closing thoughts here for people looking to improve in their training, racing, and everyday life? Like, any sort of way like I think a lot of listeners are at different stages of their training, but in general, still looking for ways to become a stronger, healthier, and happier athlete here.

Well, consistency over time is the key to endurance, right? You do something consistently, even a 30-minute run, even a 15-minute run, a 15-minute walk over time creates an engine. And many want to train specifically towards something, but your consistency of training, of showing up intentionally over time, will make a huge difference, right? This is a question of where you're going, and along that path, consistency over time will get you there. It will make a more durable version of you. It'll make a more self-aware version of you. And it will chip away into any endeavor that you want to become, again, towards potential. And we often sort of have suppressed our desires and dreams in so many ways just because of how the world works, or we're told we can't do something. And I don't believe that whatsoever. And that aiming at something and consistency over time, you will look back in 6 months from now and realize how far you've come, where you once were and where you are now. And it doesn't necessarily need to be these huge steps. It's progress over time. You're different from who you were yesterday, and you're gonna be a different version of yourself of tomorrow than you are today. That's progress. That's growth. That's consistency over time. And so that's what I would always say to everyone, in whether you're working out or whether you're looking to take on a new endeavor? How will I show up with consistency in order to win the long game?

Love it. Chris, thank you very much. Next time you're in Los Angeles, let me know. We'll go for a run or maybe go for a swim in the ocean.

In the dark.

In the dark. We'll have to find a way to make it work. You always got to level it up again. I love it.

Yes. And have have fun with that adventure. That sounds great. For sure. Definitely to navigate your own landscape and your own territory. And I love that because there's an adventure waiting to happen in our neighborhood at all times. And that's one of the great ways to discover your surroundings and the people that live there.

So for sure, definitely. All right. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Grace.

Yes.

All right. Later. A few closing thoughts over here. What was your favorite lesson takeaway or quote from this episode? And are there any adventures or races that are on your mind, on your horizon, especially after listening to everything that Chris shared over here about thinking big and going after big scary goals here? I would love to hear from you in the comments on YouTube. Also, would you like to receive a weekly email from me with different training tips, advice for race day and different things that I'm experimenting with in my own training and racing, you can sign up for the newsletter at extramileus.com/subscribe. Currently the email goes out to about 11,000 people. The feedback has been very positive on that on a weekly basis. And so yes, you can sign up for that. And, um, yeah, a lot of different insights that I'm going to be sharing and And yeah, a lot of different plans here in the coming weeks and months for that as well. Extramileus.com/subscribe. Thanks so much for listening. I appreciate you tuning in. Have fun out there on your run and look forward to hearing from you about some of your lessons and takeaways from this episode. All right, bye now.