How to Demystify Sales and Design a Process That Matches Your Unique Strengths and Personality Featuring Frances Pratt

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Great selling is helping someone make a good buying decision for them, not for you. And so our job is to have a clear process and to lovingly guide someone through that process so that they get to a decision in a good amount of time. And so that it's efficient and beautiful and flows.

On today's episode, we dive deep into the real meaning of sales and why so many professionals shy away from it. Especially those who have spent years honing their craft in corporate roles before going out on their own. You'll discover why sales doesn't have to feel awkward or overwhelming and how reframing your mindset can transform the whole process. My conversation with Frances Pratt explores practical, human-centered approaches to building client relationships, demystifying the sales journey, and developing a sales process that feels authentic to you. If you've ever struggled with selling your services or want to create a sales strategy that actually works for you, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss. Now let's welcome Frances Pratt. Frances believes that sales has become a word many people and even entire businesses shy away from. Why? Because it's been disconnected from the deep understanding of the value relationship between businesses and their customers. Frances's mission is to bridge that gap by demystifying what sales really is. She helps people improve their sales performance and success. Frances, welcome to the show. Great to have you on.

Thank you so much, David. I'm really pleased to be here.

Sales is definitely a challenge for many people, particularly for professionals that have spent most of their time just doing the work.

Yeah.

Right. And if they have a long corporate career, they go out on their own, sales is usually something they don't wanna spend a lot of time doing. But before we even get to that, I'd love to hear a little more about your background and kind of how you got into your business.

Okay. So I suppose I just wanna encourage people by saying that I come from a family of high nerd introverts. So they say that the thing that you, that is different about you when you've got a big big family. I've got the 5 kids in my family is the thing that you press into. So perhaps I should thank my family for my ability to both communicate with introverted people, but also a great ability to translate what people are trying to say. So my career, I started out in hospitality actually. I did a degree, a business degree majoring in hospitality and spent a number of years working for the Ritz-Carlton. And one of the interesting things about that was it was at the time when the Ritz-Carlton were going through their continuous improvement program in a service-based business. And I was part of that for one of the areas that I was working in. So that idea of continuous improvement, and they actually won the Deming Award, which was the first time that a service-based business had won the Deming Award. Award. So this is in the '90s. So that was really fantastic to be part of that. So I suppose there's 2 things that I've taken from that. One is the customer centricity and the customer being important. And I think the second thing is the idea of continuous improvement. So then I got sick of working bad hours, getting bad pay, and I moved into IT. So I actually got a job for a software company that was working in hospitality, and they were doing reservation systems and the like. That's how I started my sales career. Very quickly, I worked out that I was pretty good at selling, and I hadn't really done it before, but I was good at presenting things. And, but I, what I was lacking probably was the strategy. So I kind of winged it a bit, like we all do when we start at something new. So then I was poached by another hospitality software company, and I had the good fortune of having a one-on-one mentor with a really excellent salesperson and a really excellent strategist. And so he put me through the strategy mill, and I suppose refined my raw talent with strategy. Then really what I did after that was I was never just working for one type of business. So yes, I did 2 hospitality businesses, but then I went into education software. After that, I pivoted into more like office networks and servers and those sort of things. And then I pivoted into cloud computing before the term cloud even existed. So You know, sometimes people, when they're employing salespeople or thinking about sales, they say, oh, you've gotta know, you know, deeply about the industry. And I say, nah, to that. Nope. I say, if you're working with someone who's intelligent and if you're working with someone who understands how to read people, then that's way more important than their industry knowledge per se. And so when I was in the cloud computing business, I actually— these guys came to me and said, would you head up our sales team? And I said, yes, as long as I get equity, which this was over our first coffee. So they fell off their chairs. So there's a bit of a theme here. Here I am being bold. Anyway, so we decided to work together for a bit and then I became part owner. In this IT business.

So you did get your equity after all.

I did.

I'm—

well, you know, what do they say? Something favors the bold. Fortune. Fortune favors the bold.

Right. And also, if you don't ask, you don't get.

Absolutely. Which is an excellent sales lesson. Thank you, David. But we need to do it. We don't all have to do it as boldly as I do it. You know, one of the rules that I teach people when I'm helping them with selling is rule number 1, be yourself. So I am bold. I tell jokes, I engage with people, I ask lots of questions. But the second rule is get over yourself. So you can be an analytical introvert who loves the numbers and spreadsheets and whatever it is that you love, that's awesome. But you've also gotta get over yourself. You've gotta get in front of people. You've gotta get over those fears that you have about that they might not like you or understand you or whatever it may be. And so what I noticed While I was working for other people and now inside this IT business is I love to learn things. So I'd gone and done a graduate certificate in change management, and I was also in the latter stages of my MBA, which I did part-time. So I was working full-time, studying part-time, no kids, so it didn't matter. I don't think I could do it now. I think I'd go insane. But what was really interesting was every time I learned something new, I was able to apply it to where I was working. And so I love change. I love setting up new systems. And so what I realized once I got to kind of the end of my time with this IT business was every business I'd been into, I'd remodeled their sales system around their customer. Around how their customers bought and what was important to them. And I'm like, oh, okay. And so, you know, fast forward to 2000 and— oh, I want to say '10, I think. And the IT business that I was in was turning over $6 million. We had one client that was worth $2 million to us a year, and we decided to sack them. Because we'd been doing this work around our strategy and around all the things that we wanted to do and be as a company. And what we continuously came up against was this client was becoming a bully. They were, because they knew we were, you know, they were a third of our revenue or not exactly, but they knew they were a big fish. They decided that that gave them license to tell us who they would deal with inside our company and a whole lot of other things. So they were actually taking us away from our strategic direction. So the 3 directors at the time sat in a room, called the chief information officer from that business, and you could have heard a pin drop when we let him know of our decision. But the interesting thing about that was That we all deeply felt that it was the right thing to do. And in the process, if you take $2 million, if you take a third of an income out, you've gotta take expenses out too, right? So in the process of doing that, the process I actually led the directors through was starting from the customer, right? Not who do we need, but what roles do we need? Here's the customers we have without the big fish. What do we need? What do we need? What do we need? And then thinking about who are the best people that we have to do that. And in the process of doing that, I actually made myself redundant because I had done what I wanted to do there in a sense. Like I remodeled the sales system, it was all working well. And what I realized was after that had happened, I get a bit bored, I get a bit disengaged. So it was actually the right timing. For me, so I was still a shareholder but not an employee, which had its own issues. But given that I had an MBA, everybody who has an MBA must be a consultant at some point in their career. So that's what I decided to do. I started my own business.

Yeah. So with that perspective, I'd love to hear your thoughts on what consultants do wrong When it comes to selling?

Okay, so I think it starts with, I think there's 3 areas that are problematic. One is mindset. So I think you've gotta fix your mindset before you do anything. So if you think, for example, that you have to perform and you have to sound exactly like Fran and you have to be extroverted and I have to do this and it's, you know, I've gotta wear a blue suit and whatever it is that you think it is, It's not right unless it is you being you. So first and foremost, if you are quietly spoken and love storytelling, then go and do that in front of your client. There are beautiful clients out there, enough for everybody. So I think mindset is the first thing that gets in our way. If you have the wrong mindset about things, so if you think people don't wanna hear from you or whatever it is that's choking you up, Then that changes your actions. You choose to do things differently. And even if it's not a conscious choice, if I feel like, okay, I'm gonna pick up the phone, I'm gonna call someone, but I'm bugging them. Oh my goodness, they really don't wanna hear from me. Then I get lower in my body. And for those who are listening, I'm curling up like a turtle. And that changes the timbre in your voice. And the important thing for people to understand is that in communication, 50— I think it's 58, I sometimes get the numbers wrong, but anyway, 58% is completely nonverbal. It's got nothing to do with sound. So if you're on the phone, you're already missing 58%. 7% at the other end is the actual words and meaning, and the balance is tone, tempo, timbre in your voice, etc., etc. So if you're quickly speaking and bent all up like this, and it did it, it just sounds disingenuous. So the best thing you can do, and you'll often see people recommend this, is stand up to do a phone call because you're less likely to hunch over and change that sound in your voice. So the wrong mindset predicates the wrong actions or doing it in the wrong way, which reinforces, because people then don't respond very well or the way we want them to, that reinforces the mindset that I'm bugging them.

Right. So it's a perpetual cycle. Right.

And so the last thing I wanna say to people, or the third step is one of the reasons that people hate selling is because they have this image in their mind of the used car salesman, you know, that icky, sticky, pushy, manipulative— they walk up to you and they've got dollar signs in their eyes, right? And it's just revolting.

We've all seen those people, right? And experienced dealing with them.

Absolutely. And you just want to go home and have a shower because it's just so revolting. And so, you know, we have that picture and They're, they're actually the picture of what we should do. What we need to do in our sales methodologies and process is focus on the process, is not have the— we're not focused down here on the dollar sign. But you and I, when we first met, David, we have had a beautiful conversation, right? That's a result. That's a win.

Correct.

You then invited me to do the podcast. That's a win. But even if you hadn't done that, we'd connected on LinkedIn. You know, there's lots of ways. So what we need to do is think beautifully about, wow, that's such a great day. I've met David, had a great conversation with him. I am winning. You know, if someone responds well to something that I say, that's winning. So rather than waiting for the dollar sign to get excited, actually all the work's already done by the time the dollars are coming into your bank account, right? So you're missing the fun. It's like raising kids but not being at home. You know, you're missing all the fun and the terror. Yeah. So they're the 3 things.

Yeah. So focus on one step at a time. Yeah.

One of the analogies that I use in my book or the story that I take throughout my book is The Wizard of Oz. So what I say to people, men and women, that they are Glinda the Good Witch of the North, and she floats down in this magnificent frock and bubble. But her— and her first job isn't to tell Dorothy about flying monkeys, that there's a witch that wants to kill her. Her first job isn't even to talk about the Yellow Brick Road. Her first job is to get— Oh, I see. Dorothy and Toto off the porch, you know, just welcome her in. And then they sing a song. Then she meets the, you know, the Oz people. Then they sing a song. Then she introduces her to the concept of the Yellow Brick Road. And then she allows Dorothy her journey. And selling is exactly the same. You've got to encourage people to get off the porch, encourage people to take their journey. And then help them along the way. You know, fun fact about the movie of The Wizard of Oz, you know, when Glinda comes in, when they go into the field of opiums, the field of poppies, and they all fall asleep and then it snows, that's asbestos.

Anyway. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Yeah. I just wanna encourage people that, you know, in selling It's actually not about you. Great selling is helping someone make a good buying decision for them, not for you.

Yes.

And, and so our job is to have a clear process and to lovingly guide someone through that process so that they get to a decision in a good amount of time. And so that it's efficient and beautiful and flows.

If sales isn't your thing, right? You're, you're a knowledge worker, right? You've started your consulting business or you've been running your consulting business for a while and business has come, but you really haven't focused on what your sales process should be like you've just described.

Yes.

How can you think about getting started in the sales process in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming?

Yeah, I love that. So what I encourage people to do is don't listen to me or any other expert about it. I want you to pick 3 clients that you absolutely love working with. They might not be the ones that you get the most money from or the most recent, but the ones that you just go, oh my goodness, if I could replicate that client tenfold. I would be the happiest person in the world. That's the client I want you to talk to. So I want you to go and talk to them, and I want you to take them back in time and say, okay, before you met me, you had this problem. You already know what their problem is, right? How do you describe it? How did that make you feel? What had you tried before? So what we wanna do is take this person on this buying journey that they went on.

Mm-hmm.

With you. And what I want people to focus on is what's the language your client is using? What are the pivot points? Like, why did they say yes to that first meeting with you? What was it about the proposal that was compelling for them? So what we're doing is we're actually mapping the buying journey, and then that's what we map the sales process to. Rather than having a spin blah blah, a blah blah system, a blah blah system. Those systems can work and do work, but the inherent problem with them is that it's like getting somebody else's kidney, right? You've got to be on retro drugs the whole time. Whereas if you build a process around what works for you in your business, Then it's born out of you. It's your own flesh and blood. And so there's no retro drugs. There's no, you know, chance that this isn't gonna work. So yes, it takes, it takes boldness and it takes humility to really listen. So that's what I encourage people to do. And for those who, people who are listening who think, yeah, but I've just started, I don't have those clients I love the most. That's okay. Create a hypothesis. I reckon, I reckon it's gonna be this type of person, this type of person, this type of person, right? Go and talk to them. Create a prior hypothesis, test it. And when we're scientists in our business, we don't, you know, if you said to a scientist, how many tests did you run? And they said one and it didn't work, you'd go. Yeah, but why did you stop at one? And yet when we are in business, we suddenly think that we should be experts at this, particularly when we're starting out. I talk a lot about my kids when I'm teaching people about selling. And one of the things that I think about when people are starting out is, you know, when your toddler is just learning to walk and they fall on their bottom, we don't say, oh, that's it. You never walk. You'll never walk. Give up, turn away. Do we? We don't say that to them. We say, "Ah, good try! Keep going. You've got this. Look at you." Blah blah blah. So we need to talk to ourselves in the same way when we're trying something new. Be kind to yourself, and we can learn from failure. We're building a muscle, just like when our kids are starting to walk. So be kind to yourself. Allow yourself to experiment a number of times before you sit back and look at the evidence of that experiment.

Frances, how can you— how do you think somebody can tap into community to help support their success in this process?

I think there's a couple of things you can do with community. I think a lot of the stuff that I'm talking about is self-awareness. So if you think that you're not that self-aware, and that's okay, we all had to start somewhere. I'd go into your community and ask other people about, listen, I'm playing around with my hypothesis and my value proposition. What do you reckon? You've worked with me in my corporate career or, or in whatever. How would you describe What I do. So it doesn't have to be a client, it just has to be someone who knows you. So I think that community can be really awesome around that. And I think then if you're at that stage where you're talking to people, talking to them about their problem, talking to them about what they've tried, you will see that there might be a natural segue between One community member and another community member. For example, you might have a fish and chip shop, and then next to that there's an ice cream shop because every— after you've had fish and chips, it's nice to have ice cream, right? So what is that strip shopping? I don't know. Do you call it that in the US? I don't know. We call strip shops like this, the ones that are on the street, not in a, not in a shopping centre.

Yeah, I'm not sure what they're called here.

Oh, okay. So anyway, but continue. So think about where are you going to put your shop? Your— it's not a physical shop, but, but, you know, you want to be around people that are on the same journey as you. So for example, I love working with purpose-driven founders because I just love their ambition and the joy that they find in, in what they do. So In my career, I work with a marketing person who's for purpose-driven. I work with a CRM person who's for purpose-driven. So who are the people who are like-minded to you? And think about that, you know, passing on the hot potato. So there's people before you, there's people after you, and if you can find a community of like-minded people, then you're solving the problem for the client in a more deliberate way. And more effective way when you work with others.

Yeah, well said, Frances. We've covered some really important topics when it comes to sales. If someone wants to go deeper, learn more, access any resources you have, or get in touch with you, where's the best place to go?

I would— a couple of things. I would go to LinkedIn. I also have a ebook called The 11 Secrets of Highly Successful Salespeople that has some great tips and ideas. And I'm also gonna be running a masterclass later in the year. So get in touch with me on LinkedIn, send me an email, and I'll stay in touch with you and share more of my wisdom.

Sounds great. What's the email address they should contact you at?

Oh, thank you. It's fforfrances.pratt@metisan.com.au because I'm in Australia.

And we will put the link in the show notes as well.

Oh, that'd be awesome.

Thank you. Yeah. So Frances, thank you for taking the time to join us today on Smashing the plateau, share a little bit about your own story and some great tips. My guest has been the founder of MediSun, Frances Pratt. Thank you, Frances, for joining us.

Pleasure.

When you work independently, you make important decisions every day without the colleagues and perspectives that larger organizations provide. The free SMASH System Self-Assessment helps you step back and reflect on what's working, where you may be getting stuck, and where greater clarity or outside perspective could help you move forward. Better decisions begin with seeing your situation more clearly. Get the free SMASH System Self-Assessment at smashingtheplateau.com/clarity. That's smashingtheplateau.com/clarity.