Day 1 Energy Panel Dax Driver

We are going to jump right in to our next panel. And just to remind everyone that we will be— we have an amazing network session, late networking session later this evening, and we will be joined by Dr. Reynolds after this energy session. So it is no question that in each of our industries it is impossible to not be speaking very strategically about energy right now. It is easily the most globally topical conversation in several spheres and industries. So I have no doubt that our next panel will bring tremendous value and insight. So let's jump right in. So allow me to introduce our moderator for that, um, for that panel, Dr. Dax Driver. He's the president and CEO of the energy chamber of Trinidad and Tobago. Dr. Driver has overseen the complete transformation—

I'm sorry, hello, I was an open mic, apologies, go ahead.

So I thought I was doing something wrong. Dr. Driver has overseen the complete transformation of this organization into an extremely well-respected recognized chamber He has reached, along with this organization, across the Caribbean region— talked before about partnership— and has extensive knowledge, extensive knowledge in the energy industry and policy issues impacting this sector, most importantly in the small island and middle-income economies. Allow me, and please join in the chat, to welcome Dr. Zach Driver in our presence, who will take us through this next panel. Zach, you are on.

Thank you very much and good afternoon. Thanks a lot for the introduction. It's fantastic to be joining everybody here. I'm joining from Point Lisas in Trinidad and Tobago, so in the middle of a huge, big, world-class petrochemical complex which we have here. So people might be wondering what 'Are you doing— talking about renewable energy coming from the petrochemical sector?' and a lot of natural gas flowing through pipelines all around me here in Point Lisas. But I hope that that'll become clear of why we're doing that. I'm joined by two fantastic people, a great panel, very excited about the panel we have this this afternoon. We have— I'm seeing there on the screen— Stephen Wedderburn, who is with business development for TotalEnergies, or Total as it used to be known. So Total is an interesting one because this is one of the oil majors, one of the Seven Sisters, one of the big global oil companies, but has really transformed itself in the last few years into an integrated energy company. So we'll talk a little bit about that., so you're bringing a lot of renewables in. And Dion Nugent, who I'm not seeing your face there, Dion, I'm seeing your screen. I hope you're there with us, who is with Jamaica Public Service Limited. For the non-Jamaicans in the meeting or people who don't know Jamaica well, Jamaica Public Service Limited, or JPS, is the electricity utility. It's not the public service. That confused me sort of when I first began dealing with Jamaica. It's the electricity utility. Dionne, are you there with us? I'm not seeing you, but I'm seeing you on the screen. Okay, seems to have left the stage. Perhaps we'll get her back just now. But Stephen, we have you here. So in the panel today, I think what we had wanted to talk about— I mean, Frances had given us this sort of very sort of provocative title about developing cost-effective renewable strategies powered by pandemic-era insights. I'm not sure exactly what insights we have from the pandemic. I think we'll have different experiences through it, but I think there's a lot of things we learned. But I think that there was also— there's sort of some general energy sector stuff I think we need to talk about to start with. So what we sort of think we were going to address this was talk generally about sort of what's going on with the energy transition globally And then going to the strategy heading, what does that mean in terms of sort of strategy-making in companies and how does that actually show up? Then we'll talk a little bit about what we learned through the pandemic, and then I think, and then we'll sort of bring it down to talking about the Caribbean setting. So that was sort of the 4 things that we had thought about, and we'll take questions as they come up from the Q&A function. Ask people to please use that that Q&A button rather than the chat. Makes it a bit easier for us to keep an eye on things. So let's— what's doing— while we're waiting for Dionne to come back, I wonder, she might be having some camera issues, I guess. But so while we're waiting for that, perhaps you and I can just start to sort of chat about the global energy transition. So I mean, I think we all know, everybody I hope knows the direction which— the direction we're traveling in. Which is towards net zero. And clearly climate change is what's driving a lot of the decision-making within the sort of the big picture within the industry, driving in that direction. But I think what we're seeing is that it's a road we're on, but there's a lot of bumps on that road. There's a lot of strange turns and things where in different directions we're having to take and to navigate. Unexpected things like COVID happen and the supply chain disruptions coming out of that. And then the geopolitics, Russia's invasion of Ukraine. These things all sort of unexpected events, complex things to deal with. But in the context where we know the direction which we're heading in, is that sort of how you see things, Stephen, as well? Perhaps you can just comment on it from a big company point of view. Yes. Total point of view, where do you guys see things moving?

Right, okay. And that perhaps says that because we have to remember that we have non-energy audiences, right? Yes, yeah, I just, right, assume, because I know though most people I think will have heard the term net zero, you know, there may be members of the audience who don't, um, really know what it is. And essentially, you know, as we seek a sustainable future, net zero is a point at which we are not— we are extracting the same amount of carbon that we are putting into the, uh, the atmosphere, so that at a point we become balanced and essentially in equilibrium. A lot of our environmental problems are caused by the fact that we put far more carbon dioxide in the air than we take out. And then the other term I just want to touch on is the energy transition, because again, in the energy industry, we talk about energy transition all the time, and, you know, forgetting that, you know, some people may not, uh, appreciate it. And so just, man, energy transition is really in a broad scope the move away from an energy, uh, supply based primarily on fossil fuels, uh, to a more sustainable energy future in which, uh, renewables will play a major, major role. But again, So net zero and energy transition are basically hand in hand because in order to get to net zero, we have to have what is called the energy transition, where we move away from energy technologies that put a lot of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. All right, so with that in mind, though, I will just say that—

just one, can I speak? One thing I think is important they're picking up from that is that, so when we're saying net zero, and I think your point about it's net zero Um, so, so the, the, the, there might still be fossil fuels within a net zero scenario, but you're also taking carbon out as well, right?

Yes, that's it. So yeah, we— right, yeah, it does not mean that we are not putting carbon, and we unfortunately, we will still be putting a lot of carbon into the atmosphere, but at least at that point we would be taking, um, you know, as much as we put in out and not increasing the load. Uh, so, and most companies— well, I'd not say most, a lot of organizations around the world have adopted net zero targets for 2050. Uh, so we're basically talking just a little bit under 30 years where most of the world is saying we want to get to this point of net zero, uh, which means that we really have to be making the decisions now because, as we'll talk about later, energy is a long-term you know, the strategic business, you know, the investments you make in energy take long to build, long to construct in any energy installation, and, and they are expected to operate for a very long time. So in terms of strategy, if you are aiming for 2050, many people would say we are already late in a lot of what we have to do.

Sure.

And some of us have— and there are a lot of targets before 2050, there are a significant amount of targets for 2030. So many CARICOM countries, for instance, have, uh, renewable targets, you know, of 100% renewable, 50% renewable, uh, by 2030. So we, um, which again, based on what I've just said about the long-term nature of energy projects, we really should be tying down exactly what we will be pursuing in order to meet those short-term 2030 targets. You know, I know Jamaica has, um, I think we have a 2030 target which I think is to, um, be about 30% renewables by, uh, 2030 and 50% renewables by 2035 in our electricity.

Trinidad also 20, 30, 30%. We have that, that same target. You guys are a long way ahead of us, but we have one project announced should help push us closer to that.

Right, yes. Yeah, so I just want to get the story, you know, one of my points which I really want to drive home in this session is that we need to make decisions and we need to make those decisions fairly quickly in terms of ensuring that the strategies that we, you know, we talk about implementing are actually implementable. You know, because I think what has happened, we have no problem setting targets and objectives, but a lot of time the implementation strategy is very weak and we are not achieving the targets that we have, you know, we set out. But, but it is very important, you know, the story about energy has, although there have been lots of bumps along the way, a lot, you know, worldwide recessions COVID, you know, you know, wars and stuff that have caused the energy sector and the oil industry— well, and I talk about oil because in the Caribbean we have to realize that the majority of our countries are dependent, you know, around 90% dependent on oil. You know, many, many of Caribbean countries are actually 100% or, you know, 95, 96% dependent on oil. So what happens in the oil industry is very important for us. Um, but there are certain themes. If you, if you think about it, you know, when I started in the energy industry a little bit over 30 years ago, you know, I'm feeling rather old now, but, um, you know, if at that time the big theme was energy security, and that has continued to be a theme. So regardless of all the disruptions that we have gone through. You know, you always hear people talking about energy security, and a big part of what we mean by energy security is reducing our reliance on imported oil, uh, so that, you know, we have more indigenous sources of energy and are not subject to the vagaries of the international oil markets and the swings and so on. So that, you know, so I said there's been lots of bumps along the road, but there's been a very consistent theme of energy security. I mean, I think perhaps Trinidad where you are from, Dax, it has not been as strong a theme because you, you have the resource yourself. But I think in virtually every other, uh, Caribbean country, you know, that has been a big theme. Um, the— and, and although the, the biases have changed, you know, we— it, you know, it was energy security. Um, we now have, you know, the next year the climate change targets. They are all actually pushing us in the same direction. Which is to move to diversify our energy base and to, and where possible, to have indigenous, you know, to utilize indigenous sources of energy. So, so as a— so despite, you know, as I say, all the turbulence of COVID and, you know, all of what else is happening in the world, I think there the long-term strategy has been clear for a long time, which is, you know, we need energy diversification and we need to be maximizing our use of indigenous sources. So having said all of that, I guess the issue is, are we making progress? And are we going to get there? Or what needs to be done to speed up? The other point I'd like to— I just— as we await Dion to come back, I'll just make one more point in that I think from a strategy perspective, and I especially wanted to mention this at a strategy conference, that our energy companies in the Caribbean have actually been very good in terms of ensuring that we have consistent and reliable, uh, supply of energy. You know, we— I know consumers all over the Caribbean, you know, we will cuss the utility companies that, you know, the prices are too high, and, you know, uh, and the same thing for the petroleum retailers. But if you think about it, our companies have been delivering extremely high levels of service, and you you know, across the Caribbean. And which means that these companies themselves must be doing something right, putting strategies in place to supply and do the business that they are currently doing. Um, I remember, you know, in my early career, I used to visit, uh, an OPEC country. So there's a, you know, OPEC country, big oil supplier, where, you know, there were no— there was no reliable electricity service, you know, blackouts every day. Everybody had to have their own generator, but even having your own generator in an oil-producing country, you— there were shortages of petroleum products, you know, you could not get diesel and gasoline readily. Um, so, you know, and I think many Caribbean people, because we have had good service, don't realize that things like that happen around the world, that you can be in an oil-producing country and you have to buy diesel on the black market, you know. It's sort of, uh, yeah. So, so So kudos, kudos to our energy companies. And, you know, but the point I'm making though is because they have been good at doing these, the traditional services, maybe that is part of the problem why the pressure of changing and diversifying has not been greater, you know, because despite all the disruptions, despite, you know, all the hurdles along the way, by and large, we have had consistent energy supply in the Caribbean.

I can see that point very much here in Trinidad with our electricity sector, where we've had the Electricity Commission, who is a well-run organization. They consistently deliver electricity to also a big industrial base as well as domestic consumers. And they took some innovative ideas back really in the 1950s, and they began using that natural gas. But it's been very sort of stable since then. It's sort of a very stable model. There were some changes in the structure of the power producers about 30 years ago, but other than that, a very sort of model. And it's something you feel a bit like the Electricity Commission is sort of like, well, we do a good job of this, and sort of, let's leave us to do this because we sort of know what we're doing. Is that something you think you're seeing a similar pattern in the rest of the region?

Yes, yeah, and I think generally, so which is, I say, you know, kudos to the energy sector in the Caribbean. Our companies are generally pretty well run, and, um, you know, so that's one thing we must give ourselves a pat on the back for.

So I mean, I think there's a whole affordability question, uh, and, and I wish we had one who faces that issue, I think, you know, constantly. Um, and I think we can talk a little bit more about, so perhaps diversity in supply, um, you know, as we, as we sort of go along. And so I think some really interesting things happened in, in Jamaica, uh, you know, over the last decade or so, and some, you know, some really quite fundamental changes, um, which perhaps we can, we can talk about a bit later on. Um, right, but perhaps we could also have just a chat, you know, um, uh, just, I want to just, um, Francis, if we get an indication where— if Dionne's going to be joining us back again? Perhaps you just— if you just drop something in on a chat so I sort of have a sense of what's happening there. But Stephen, one of the things I wanted to talk with you about is the— okay, so I see she's rebooting. Okay, good. So hopefully we'll have her back in a little bit. One of the things we had sort of when we met earlier this week and had a little bit of a chat around is this this issue, this sort of challenge which I think a lot of energy companies face around timescales, because you have these really long planning horizons because you're planning projects which the payback is over decades and you've got these sort of long time horizons. So sort of a very long-term thinking in how you're having to approach strategy. But then this is a sector which also moves incredibly quickly. Particularly on pricing. I mean, just over 2 years ago, we were on negative oil prices. I mean, unprecedented. Theoretically, people were having to pay to give away oil. I mean, that's not quite how it works because of the trading, but I mean, that was negative oil prices. And now, we've got these incredibly high oil prices at historic highs, and I mean, natural gas prices in Europe just, and they've been up there for months now. Fertilizer prices, I think people perhaps don't always see all these things very much interlinked, but fertilizer, which we produce a lot of from here in Trinidad, one of the world's major ammonia producers, comes from natural gas. And that's why those fertilizer prices are driving up so high. So we've had this sort of huge, very short, very quick, 2 years, complete turnaround. But yet people are having to make decisions on the long term because you're talking major projects being delivered and with a long payback period and allocating capital for that real sort of long-term vision in mind. How do energy companies deal with that sort of those two sort of different forces which are acting upon them?

Right, yes. Yeah, and as you mentioned earlier, you know, I am now with TotalEnergies, which is, I mean, one of the top oil companies in the world. I think we may be about number 4, the number 4 oil company. But essentially, so it's strange, you know, people would assume that we just want to sell as much oil as possible, you know, and keep doing that, which has been our traditional business. But, um, but I think, you know, we— our company has been good at recognizing some of the long-term drivers. And so for over a decade, we have actually been shifting away from oil. And even within oil, we have made a big shift from reliance on, you know, liquid petroleum, you know, oil products, crude oil and so on, into natural gas, which, you know, is like, you know, a bit more environmentally friendly than, you know, oil itself. And, and also in renewables, you know, we have made our first forays in the renewable world from over a decade ago. And I think we were very quiet about it, uh, so most people still saw us as just another oil and gas company. But, um, last year we have changed our name from Total, uh, to TotalEnergies, reflecting the fact that we now see ourselves as a multi-energy company. And you know, that, uh, important part of our future, in fact, probably the most important part, is— will be renewables. Um, and you know, so it is— we have a 2030 target, as I mentioned. Most companies nowadays talk about 2030 targets. Where if you think about it, as an oil and gas company, we are saying that our revenues from liquid petroleum, that is crude oil and gasoline, diesel, um, will be, um, less than 50%. In fact, I think only about 30% of overall revenues. You know, we see a big replacement of revenues in terms of natural gas and renewables. Um, well, between natural gas and renewables, we'll have more than 50% of revenue expectations. So, so that's part of the strategy we are taking. You know, we think that energy companies, you know, there will be— continue to be a demand, uh, for, uh, petroleum, you know, for the next few decades. You know, it's not going to go away overnight, but we have to be part of the strategy of helping to shift, you know, to make the shift and to accelerate the shift away, uh, from, uh, petroleum into, uh, cleaner forms of energy. And, you know, so that's a strategy we are taking very seriously. And, you know, part of why I'm here with you today is that, you know, as a company, we are saying, you know, we are ready, uh, to help. And, you know, we are actually ready to be part of the Caribbean picture in terms of developing renewable assets and renewable resources. Around the, around the Caribbean. And, um, you know, as I say, as one of the larger oil and gas companies, you know, we tend to be— well, you know, I think the reality is we are less capital constrained than the typical, uh, Caribbean, uh, companies. So, so when you have a company like us, and, and we are not the only ones, you know, there are other multinational companies who are expressing significant interest invest in, uh, Caribbean renewable energy. So, so I think that is a good sign for the Caribbean in that, you know, it used to be that we would argue that the capital is not there, the investors are not there, it's very hard to find people. But, but companies like TotalEnergies are now saying all around the Caribbean, we are willing to help you, we are willing to invest in the renewable energy sector in the Caribbean.

Dion, great to have you, um, back and Sorry, we lost you for a little bit there. We talked a little bit about, just to sort of bring you up to speed, on the sort of the global energy transition and what's driving that and these sort of these forces around energy security and the drive for net zero. There's another big trend which is then also the drive for energy for all and affordable energy for all. So that was the one I think I also wanted just to ask you about from from your perspective. This is sort of this challenge about the— I mean, so not so much in the Caribbean where we have pretty good coverage. There are countries in the Caribbean who still have pockets of people who are not connected to the electricity grid and obviously need to get those people connected. But there's also this issue about affordability. How do you see that sort of issue being driven about making sure that everybody has access to this sort of basic service of electricity? Is able to afford at least the basics.

Thank you, Dax, and apologies for the technical difficulties. It's great to be here on the panel and certainly for including all of our customers, vulnerable and not so vulnerable. It has always been a challenge, and renewables has has been positioned as an opportunity, certainly, to increase that basket of customers. So let me just give you an example. So in our setting, where we do have a lot of remote customers in, you know, far-flung areas, hinterlands of the country, we see renewables as a big opportunity also to bring them into, you know, into service and reliable types of services. And the, the, the challenge really is how do we deploy those kinds of systems in an economical way that they can afford, and certainly that as investors it makes sense for us. And that's a journey that we are currently on, and, and that journey certainly is one that we have been taking in relation to how we manage, uh, for example, um, our issue of non-technical losses. So we are looking at renewables as an option, you know, and for those who are not so familiar.

Explain non-technical losses.

Yes, yes, I'm trying to be very careful here how I, I, how I define it. So what non-technical losses are, are losses that are due to typically persons illegally extracting power from the grid, and, um, and that occurs for various reasons. And, uh, certainly one of the main reasons is sometimes affordability. Persons need the service, but they can't afford the service. And that's a significant issue that we have here in Jamaica. And so we are actually looking at how can we use renewable technologies, you know, very small systems that can provide some basic level of service delivery to the customers, that it can prevent them or, you know, mitigate the need for them to actually access the network illegally. So we have several use cases that we are looking at, both in the non-technical losses— and I'm trying not to say theft because Certainly, several things influence that kind of behavior. We see an opportunity there, and that would cover small-scale types of deployment of renewables. But as a utility, certainly we are looking at how can we participate in the national program to bring the scale— scale renewables onto the grid in very affordable prices. And so the government has been very strong on that. I mean, we have gone sub-10 cents so far in our last set of additions to the grid, solar PV in particular, because we want to maintain that downward pressure on the price of electricity. Ultimately, that is a key thing for us. If it's not impacting on that price, you know, we are not going to get the real benefit of the renewable program. So we're doing it in a different level of scale affecting the price. We're looking at the lower levels in terms of going down in terms of scale. This is how we can bring the service and the product to our customers in a very affordable way. Renewables is definitely an option. We think that is possible, and we are right now working through that to deliver and to demonstrate those use cases.

So can I ask you the same question as we were just discussing with Stephen about the that sort of, um, how do you make long-term strategic decisions in a situation of a lot of— where there's a lot of volatility, particularly in price, um, you know, and prices of inputs, you know, if you're importing natural gas or importing— particularly if you're importing petroleum products, liquid fuels, you know, vary— can really vary very, very quickly, um, by, you know, it's going from negative to over $100 in in 2 years. How do you as a company make sure you're focusing on their long-term issues and don't get sort of distracted by the noise of what's going on in the market?

Well, we had a real-life experience of that, Dax. I mean, when we went into LNG, when we're diversifying, the market just flipped on us at the time. We had made a commitment to step into, you know, transitioning out of heavy fuel oils into into LNG, and the economics of the price of oil versus LNG was very attractive at the time, and it flipped. It flipped on us a little bit at the time, and as a business, we had to make critical decisions around that. And several things come to mind in terms of what influenced our commitment to that trajectory, which was we needed to go down the road with a diversification strategy. So your strategic goals are very important, and your level of commitment to them, to delivering on them, for example, um, as a critical driver to determine whether you're going to ride through those vagaries of the, of the, um, of the pricing of the various fuels. So at that time, we said we will stay the course. We believe that the diversification goal was very important, and so we made that decision. In today's world, the pressure really is on trying to get that price of electricity down. We have to work very closely with the government and with our regulator in that regard. So what it has done is driven us to really have very close collaborations on those forecasts because we're all trying to get to the same outcome, just in, you know, coming from different directions. And so a lot of comparison of notes in terms of what are we seeing, what are they seeing. So that when we go a particular direction based on a forecast, there's complete alignment and there's a commitment that, okay, if the prices go up or down, you know, in this way, that we would be able to agree that payments will flow and that we can maintain a certain level of return at the end of the day. It has to be collaboration. I'm telling you, in our market, it's very small. Um, understanding what your ultimate objectives are at a particular time. And the fact is that we just operate in a very dynamic world, and decisions today may not be perfect, but a commitment to ensuring that we want a particular outcome and we stick to it, we have been able to demonstrate that so far.

So, Stephen, on this sort of strategy-setting question as well, that from talking from Total as a listed company, what's the drive that comes from the investing community, you know, on all these sort of, you know, the fund managers and their demands around ESG and all of that? How important is that in then company decision-making to sort of responding to that shareholder demand?

Right, well, okay, I think those drivers are actually very good for the Caribbean. Um, well, you know, around the world generally, but very good for the Caribbean. We, you know, there's no, there's no question, you know, shareholders in companies like, uh, TotalEnergies, you know, they do— a lot of the shareholders, they want their profits. But I think it has become very obvious, not just to the shareholders but to the management of the companies themselves, that, you know, you can't pursue profits at the, you know, without any consideration of, uh, sustainability and what's happening to the world. You know, as energy companies and oil and gas companies in particular, we do have a very, very big impact on the environment. And, you know, if we, you know, we our business, and we see ourselves as important businesses, but we also have to ensure that we are sustainable businesses and that we are making a better future, you know, not just for ourselves but for, uh, you know, all our stakeholders, which includes all the countries we operated at, in fact the whole world. So yeah, so it is an important driver. Now what that has done though is that it has vastly increased the amount of capital. Because I say, the very fact that, uh, TotalEnergies has appointed me, um, as a point person to develop renewable energy projects in the Caribbean, you know, and the scale of projects, which, you know, is— it's not really going to shake the needle on Total's, uh, investment capital, you know, um, you know, because all our projects, you know, uh will be small in comparison to what, uh, we are doing elsewhere in the world. But, you know, the fact that we are here, you know, it is coming from that pressure where we want to make our presence felt all around the world and to ensure that all around the world we are doing something good, uh, for the, you know, uh, uh, for the various countries. So, and I say that story is replicated, you know, it's not just TotalEnergies, but it's replicated in several companies, which is why right now there is a massive amount of capital waiting to be invested, you know, available to be invested in renewable energy projects in the Caribbean. And, you know, one of my frustrations is that we are not taking up that investment capital very quickly. But I guess we'll talk about that aspect later.

Yeah, we can get on that in a couple of minutes. I just Wanted just to remind the audience that they can put some questions into the Q&A function. I'm not seeing anything coming up yet, but if anybody has anything they want to ask these very esteemed two guests that we have here with us, please put the questions in there. So, and we'll take them as they come up. But I wanted just to sort of switch it a little bit to talk about the pandemic, because that was sort of part of our title, Pandemic Insights. So, yeah, and what really, what was the experience during the pandemic? And I mean, I could start talking a little bit from a Trinidad point of view that, I mean, clearly the energy industry as a whole, particularly the electricity sector, you know, part of the energy industry, you know, really was incredibly important to keep all the lights on. Everyone, people had with lockdowns, people were not moving as much, so transport fuels were not, you know, being moved as as much though still obviously people still have to move around and goods have to move around. But that delivering reliably, delivering electricity to everybody at their home was obviously incredibly important. And so the energy industry around the world continued to work through, you know, was I think, you know, a major theme that we had here in There are a lot of unknown things and a lot of fear and concern about this pandemic, but you have to keep everyone's lights on. So Dionne, in the Jamaica case—

Yes, the Jamaica case, Dax. Uh, yes, are you hearing me? Are you hearing me? Okay, he's hearing me. I, I think that Dax may be having a little bandwidth problem, so if the audience is hearing, I'll, I'll continue until he gets back in. So in the Jamaican experience, not very different from the Trinidad, uh, Trinidad experience, where for sure you had to keep the lights going and You know, I really want to say that in the energy sector, it demanded that, you know, we move very quickly to, you know, ensure the protocols were in place for our team members from remote working to make that happen. Because, you know, everybody is at home, and electricity and probably water are the two main things that you need to make sure, apart from Wi-Fi and communication, were the critical things that had to be in place. And so I think that for us, the pandemic really did showcase our ability to, to, to shift in a, in a health crisis and to respond and to keep the service going. But I just want to add that, you know, the pandemic did also create some challenges for us because, as we all know, what happened is that the demand on the system really started to take a downward trajectory throughout that period. And for any system that had a significant amount of renewables, you know, they are typically always on. And so what that meant also, you know, how do you manage the grid in a situation where the demand is a little depressed? And that also would certainly influence your projections for adding new renewables to the grid. So, you know, that Reduction in system demand was a feature that we had to contend with, and it did give us some insights around managing renewables when they are, you know, a significant portion of the demand. And, you know, it really also drove the need for us to kind of work through how would the post-COVID environment look, and how would renewables actually operate in that sort of of environment. So I think that, um, whereas operationally we did very well, there are some lessons we did learn. And we recognize also in that situation that, you know, the public was very sensitive to the price of electricity as well. You know, many things were happening in the various markets, and we were— we know that in those kinds of situations we have to be able to optimize on our energy mix so that we can get that best pricing solution and service to our customers. So a number of items there, and I just want to add one quick one. I think that small-scale renewables also started to take off just a little bit during the period because everybody was very interested in having their own domestic level of energy security, which was quite interesting that we saw during the period of the pandemic as well. As well. So, you know, that was more or less our experience during the pandemic, um, in terms of the energy sector.

That's Dax.

Well, not back yet, but, but, well, I'll just make the comment because when you had dropped off earlier, Dionne, I had started some of my early comments just pointing out that over the years, um, you know, Caribbean energy companies have actually done a very good job, an excellent job keeping the lights on, and keep— and for the petroleum ones, keeping the, um, the, you know, fuel in, in the tanks. Um, and so, you know, there we really have to praise our companies that, you know, they have been very good, you know, um, and, and have improved quite a lot in terms of reliability issues. You know, our cons— you know, consumers will always, you know, complain about pricing, and certainly they are complaining about pricing, um, nowadays. But I think even as we complain, you know, and putting myself as a consumer now, we have to realize that the companies have actually done a very good job in terms of keeping this supply availability. You know, Caribbean countries generally do not know, you know, you don't run out of oil, you know, um, you know, not there sitting out for days without being able to purchase oil, or you don't run out of you know, electricity. You know, we do have the occasional blackout, but it's, you know, I think for the most part our service is good around the region.

Yeah, I, I, and you know, for us, no, the big challenge post-COVID and post, um, and you know, Ukraine, um, Ukraine situation really is the supply chain, supply chain challenges. That is now starting to bite a lot more, and, um does, and that's in terms of our normal operations. And I believe that probably could influence, um, a renewable expansion program as well. So, you know, we're keeping a close watch on that, and we have found that you really need to keep a lot closer connection with your suppliers. Um, we are seeing where delivery times, you know, are really out of whack. You know about the, you know, the freight, what's happening, you know, in terms of shipping. And the kind of lead times. And so I wanted to just ask you, since Dax, I'll fill in for Dax for 30 seconds, you know, how does that supply chain challenge impact in terms of your view on the renewable sector and its development in the region?

Yeah, okay. Well, as you have said, I think the big driver is that as we experience supply chain issue issues all around the world. You know, I see, you know, a question mark around, uh, globalization generally. You know, there was a time when people— it was— people are saying globalization is the way to go. Um, you know, you know, we can get things quickly to you so you don't have to, uh, have the resource right at hand. And for a while, that seemed— it seemed like that story was being Well, look, but you know, we have seen in recent times that disruptions can come very, very easily. Um, and so that trend, I think, in not just in a lot of industries, has— is pushing towards having the resource closer to home. And especially in our countries, in the Caribbean countries, we are, apart from Trinidad and, you know, a tiny amount in Barbados, we don't have much, uh, oil resources, we have to essentially be focusing on the resources that we do have, which is renewable resources. You know, uh, you, you know, once you put up a renewable facility, you're obviously not waiting for a ship. You don't have to wait on ships to bring it in and so on, uh, but it is there. And so I think the basic message coming from the this is that we need to exploit our indigenous resources as much as we can. You know, it could be geothermal for some countries, it could be wind and solar for others, but we do need to increase energy security and avoid those supply chain issues by going for our own resources.

Thank you very much for that, Stephen, and for Diane for stepping in for that 30 seconds. We seem to have lost Dax, but he will be back in a second. This reminds me of when we used to have power outages, but now we seem to be having some internet outages. Hopefully one day we're going to get it all together here in the Caribbean. But, you know, Stephen, you mentioned something earlier. You talked about focusing on balancing profits, environmental impact with consumer demand, and still remaining a sustainable company. You know, we have people from several different industries here. Could you give us maybe some key nuggets, um, from what you have learned with balancing all of that that we can use across industries?

Okay, um, all right. Well, I think probably the most important thing, you know, I, I don't have any— I wouldn't call it my insights very earth-shattering, but Um, but I think one of the most important things I can point out is, is to take the long-term focus, you know, that, you know, in terms of our strategies, don't just focus on the way things are today. Um, you know, um, yes, you know, we currently have supply disruptions, uh, you know, uh, due to the war in Ukraine and COVID and everything, but And, you know, you shouldn't rush into decisions really because— just because you have those problems, you know. I think sometimes we still need to take that long-term focus that what is the world going to look like in 20 years, 30 years, and where do I need to be. And I think the decisions become much clearer because it's no use— I think if you take that long-term view, you know, running down profits for this year and next year if it will cost you in the longer term. You, you see that it's not a wise, uh, decision. Um, and, and, and, you know, I think I'd raise a point earlier, but I repeat it again, that despite all the various disruptions we have had over the last few decades, you know, there are some very important themes, you know, that have been consistent. I just spoke about exploiting indigenous sources of, uh, energy. So, you know, 30 years ago it was just oil market price volatility, um, would have been a major concern, but we were still talking about doing our indigenous, uh, energy. Today, you know, there's a lot of talk about the climate and, or, I know, also about supply chain issues, but, but the answer to all of those issues is relatively consistent, that you diversify and use as much indigenous energy sources as possible. So I say, despite all the ups and downs, I think the answers have remained pretty much the same, which points us that there's a clear direction that we need to move in, in terms of looking to the future.

Thank you for that, Stephen. And Diane, just a similar type question for you. What do you think is the most important part of creating your strategy? Once again, we're looking for those nuggets that those within the financial services or other industries can move into their industries. What do you think is the most important part of creating this long-term heavy investment strategy that, you know, is allowing companies to remain sustainable when, as you pointed out, when you had a flip Immediately something came up and you had a flip. What is that important part in your strategy that allows you to, to carry through?

Well, I, I want to tell you that, um, in our industry, you know, you plan and you plan and you plan 50 times before you execute. It is absolutely critical. We're doing long-range planning, 20, 30-year horizon investments, and that sort of rigorous testing around all your input variables are, are absolutely critical. You heard Dax talking about the fuel prices. Um, we're in the middle of making investment decisions right now, Daniel, and I, I tell you, uh, my colleague was saying he's tired of doing so many scenario testing because, you know, um, those, those, those kinds of decisions demand that, um, in terms of our strategizing, that we really have a very good picture of what the, what the, um, what these various scenarios may bring, and to ensure that our shareholders have the value. Once a decision is made, and we have been there, once a decision is made, we just have to be very clear as to what the ultimate strategy objective is. I mentioned before that, you know, we were on a diversification program, and even when there was a flip We recognize that if the strategy is still on target and other variables have gone a little awry, let's stick to what your strategy objective is. So, you know, despite the dynamic nature of your industry, if your strategy is clearly taking you to a particular goal and that is still maintained, um, it's my recommendation that you proceed along that despite the noise that you may be facing around the decision that you're taking. And so for me, renewables is critical. I think that decision— Stephen has been saying, you know, we have to make that transition into more indigenous sources of energy. And I'm not sure if I missed it earlier, Daniel, but, you know, where I think we're lacking is we have the strategy. I think we have the clarity of where we want to go. What is needed now is that execution. You know, how do we take those tangible steps to make it happen? And that is where I think we are— we have done, I think, a very good job of building the strategy. We know the targets that we want. We are just lagging in terms of putting that first step out there and making it happen and demonstrating the value further.

Okay, thank you. So right there we jump into more implementation. I am beautiful and I probably be more beautiful than Dax, but I'm still going to hand back over to him and let him continue a conversation that he knows a lot more about. So off with me, Francis, please.

Thank you, Daniel.

Thank you, Daniel. I'm sorry, I don't know what happened. My internet just suddenly flipped out and I don't know. But anyway, that's why I'm here.

Good work, good work.

Thank you for stepping in. So I think it goes along with the theme of unexpected, but obviously you were prepared. So I think when I left you, we were just sort of talking about some of the lessons from the pandemic, and Dielmoes, I think, was talking about the importance of going and supplying electricity through that when people were working from home. There's a question which we have, which has come up from Rita about the future of the— what will the future look like in the energy sector? I think that might be quite a nice question for us to sort of to take and to pivot then, I think, to the Caribbean, because I think that the energy sector is going to look different in different places, depending on what resources are available and what is driving decision-making. So I think that It's difficult to say that there is going to be one global energy sector which is going to look the same everywhere. I think that most of the models show at a global level, there's more of a mix. So you sort of went through a— if you go historically, the world went from basically biomass and wood, coal, and then oil, natural gas playing an increasingly important role. And I think that now with renewables coming on, everyone is saying, well, it's going to be a— there's not going to be one dominant fuel type as there may have been in past centuries. That's sort of what I think at a global level. But then in each country, it's going to look very different. So, you know, in somewhere like Trinidad and Tobago, where we have natural gas in particular, that is going to go on playing a major part of our industry. And another country where there's— where they may not have fossil fuels, may not have natural gas. Renewables are probably going to play an increasingly important part, but also depends on the renewables as well. There's different renewables provide different things. So I don't know, Steve, if you— I mean, if you perhaps want to take that and sort of build on what's the Caribbean energy future going to look like, right?

Yes. Okay. Um, yeah, and yes, although you say, and I agree with you, that different countries will, you know, have different outcomes. I think there are clear themes though. One is because virtually every country in the world is talking about a strategy to reduce, uh, the use of, uh, fossil fuels. And as I mentioned, we will— like, uh, in TotalEnergies and everywhere else, we are client-focused. Well, we break fossil fuels into, uh, the traditional petroleum, liquid petroleum, which is, you know, the gasoline, diesel, so heavy fuel oils and natural gas. So, um, so one of the big shifts that we are working on ourselves is, um, to reduce liquid petroleum, uh, content. And, you know, um, in countries around the world that use coal, you know, you— well, I think everybody accepts that there's a big push to reduce the use of coal. So coal and liquid petroleum, which are seen as the most polluting of the, uh, fuels. You know, we will be working. And I did mention that, you know, currently liquid petroleum, I think, um, is over half— or at the— well, in 2020 it was over half of our revenues. You know, we are oil and gas companies, but our 2030 target is that it will be significantly less than half. You know, I think in fact less than 30% of our revenues that by 2030 we are projecting will come from liquid petroleum. So the big shift for us will be, uh, increased natural gas and, and renewables. And so, and I think, you know, that's one company, but I think we will see a similar, uh, move all over the world that, you know, we are going to reduce the most polluting things. And so natural gas and renewables are going to feature a lot larger in the energy sector all over the world, you know, in the coming years. Oh, are you there, Dax? And the—

the sector where— are you hearing me now?

Yes, yeah, a little better now.

Yes, hear me? Yeah, let me try to switch to the Okay, let me just ask, I mean, the sector, and Dionne, I know this is something that you're working on in Jamaica, the sector which uses a lot of the liquid fuels, gasoline and diesel, is the transport sector. That's the traditional sector, and we're seeing this move very strongly around the world to the electrification of transport and electric vehicles playing an increasingly important role. We're seeing it particularly, it's been driven by the global climate concerns, but it's also been driven by local environmental concerns, particularly in Asia, in China and in India, where there's a lot of concern about air quality within cities. Where is that in the Caribbean? I mean, the move towards electric vehicles and why are we not seeing it moving faster?

So as a part of our energy transition mandate, certainly electrification is a big opportunity for us. As we look to our indigenous resources, we think that we need to be matching that sort of production of energy with directing that energy into transportation. And we think that that certainly will be a great opportunity for us. To make an impact in terms of our climate change targets. So for us in Jamaica, we are definitely moving very quickly in that area. We recently just started an aggressive program as a utility for, you know, just to put in the charging infrastructure, which is a very strong signal to the market that, hey, if you get those electric vehicles here, we'll be ready. To support you as you travel around the island doing, you know, your weekend runs and so on. And we have additional players in the market who are really getting, you know, involved in new types of business models to support the electric or e-mobility sector. So I think, you know, the experience in Jamaica, and I think that, you know, a couple of Caribbean islands are a bit ahead, were started ahead of us, um, the momentum is definitely picking up across the region based on the conversations that I have been having. And we have really been exchanging notes as well in terms of, um, the lessons learned and how we can also develop the sector. So what we do see happening in Jamaica is that, you know, the government certainly has lined up in terms of policy, and that's the same thing in other jurisdictions. The The government policies are critical signal as well. You need to match not only the infrastructure but the vehicles coming in. And I think that, you know, the government regimes in terms of tax, tax reductions on the vehicles have really been very useful in doing that. Similarly, in Jamaica, those announcements have really created a lot of interest. When you are in these chat groups, you see, you hear the kind of impact that it is having in the sector. And we're beginning to see those vehicles flow into Jamaica. So as we look ahead, one of the things that I know is very important is that e-mobility sits in an ecosystem. You know, it's a totally new area, and we have been working with our multilateral partners, for example, the IDB, really to ensure you have the— you have the tech, you have the mechanics, you have the, um, the banks, you have the You have the insurers, you have, you know, an ecosystem to ensure that anybody who buys that vehicle, just as if you had an internal combustion engine, you're able to ensure that you can access those services and functionalities out there. So we're trying to wrap that together. Um, it's my view that if we can begin to demonstrate that electric vehicle experience, which is very new to a lot of our population, um, we are going to see a step change in the demand for those kinds of transport options. And we anticipate that probably would occur within, you know, by about year 5 if we get it right in terms of just the development of the sector. But we need the government on board and we need entrepreneurship active in the space to support that, you know, in your homes, in your condos, in your business places across the island. We need to see that happen. But we think that we are seeing very strong signs of growth in the sector right now.

Yeah, I think it's an important factor for, I think, businesses who are in that sort of automotive sector to think about as well. Because, you know, I mean, I have an electric car. And almost 3 years now, and it's amazing how less service, um, you, you, less money you spend on servicing an electric car compared to an internal combustion engine. I mean, it really is just chalk and cheese. I mean, and so there's a lot of small businesses who have built the business on servicing, um, automobiles, internal combustion engines. That is a business which I think is very open for disruption. Because there's a lot less after-sales servicing on an electric car. I mean, it's a once-a-year servicing, and so far the only thing I've had any changes on is my air conditioning system. Other than that, you know, there's not enough spent, you know, hugely less money on servicing. So that's something I think that people in that sector, that's a disruptor which is coming along.

Correct.

You know, the big car companies are looking at that because it does change the model, um, and it's an interesting one. But the Caribbean, I think, is absolutely ideally suited for electric cars because most of the time you're traveling very small distances. I mean, Jamaica is a bit bigger than most the islands in Eastern Caribbean, um, so I think it's a very— it's an interesting, um, it's going to be an interesting space. And I think the challenge at the moment is that the car dealers can't get the cars that they need to be able to sell. There was a— I don't know, Stephen, if you had any sort of thoughts around the electric cars side of the equation.

Well, yeah, well, just to agree that, well, electrification generally, I think cars will be the big implement the area where we see it well. But a lot of the places where we actually go to, uh, you know, and buy, you know, like diesel oil, uh, to use in some piece of equipment or something, you know, I think over time all of those are going to disappear, um, as the, you know, the world pushes for electrification. Um, and it comes back down to the principle that, you know, in— it is better for the environment if you can use electricity, and electricity particularly produced from renewable energy, um, you are, you know, making a big difference in the world. So, so whether it's our lawnmowers, which, you know, we, uh, full of, you know, I think even those will be moving to electricity. And all the, as I say, a lot of the equipment where we wouldn't buy a little bit of diesel, uh, uh, to fire up that equipment, a lot of it is going to shift to, uh, electric. So, and so as you point out Dax, that a lot of the businesses and industries that we know, firstly, which are related to maintaining these equipments, will have to change, you know, you know, on a bigger scale. I, you know, I often make the point that, you know, the, the luxury car makers, you know, the Mercedes and the BMWs and so on, a lot of their expertise is actually how can you get maximum power out of an internal convention. Internal combustion engine. But, you know, all of that is about to disappear. You know, that was the basis of their wealth over the years, and that is about to totally disappear, you know, because though, you know, most people, you know, have that ability to develop, um, electric vehicles that can go very fast and perform very well. And so you see how, you know, so even at that level, that big international level, electrification is having a big impact.

There's a whole question also about other transport with marine fuels, but I think that's probably beyond the scope of this conversation. I had a note there saying— so we have two notes there that I'm looking at. One is about people management, so perhaps we can— we could get to that. And then there was a fintech question. I'm not quite sure what that— I'm not seeing that showing up on my panel.

I wonder if that's a holdover from the last panel.

I think we have a— we should— we could jump into that.

Let's ask the people management question. Yeah, yeah. So Dionne, on the people management side, right?

And I tell you, you know, how do you incorporate your long-term strategy in the, in the energy sector? Um, I tell you, talent management has become a major, major focus. You know, normally in, in the, in the sector, you think of old engineers, you know, and, um, you know, just kind of working for years. But the profile of, uh, of the person working in energy sector has significantly changed. Um, uh, I, I just want to add, you know, that certainly a lot more women— you know, yay for the women— are operating in these technical areas. And, you know, we're seeing them in, you know, operating in, in very interesting areas of the business. Um, we are seeing, um, you know, the need to merge a lot of skill sets— the engineering, the communications, and marketing. Um, you know, the new form of service that we intend to deliver to the customer has required that we have a lot more, I would say, um, skill sets than, you know, the traditional form. And so we have been on that drive even as, uh, JPS to begin to bring in that kind of talent within the business. We think that, you know, the refreshing of the of our team members bringing in the new ideas, bringing the new directions, has really done a lot for us over the past couple years. And the focus really is that over the next cycle, in terms of working with our strategic plan, the intention really is to continue to bring more innovation in the space. We have an innovation lab that we have used as a transition space to bring in the talent. We have been working with organizations externally, um, the, you know, the skills-based enterprises to identify the talent, give them the opportunity also to interact with us. And we have, you know, recently, um, we have actually done some entrepreneurship boot camps. So even if the talent is not within our business, we are also enabling the talent to, to thrive outside because we believe that businesses and enterprises, strong business, strong enterprises also works for the entire energy sector. So that is built into our strategic program. And I'm looking, I met a very fantastic young lady yesterday just talking about her experience in EV and in the new types of energy energy technologies out there and totally excited to bring that to our conversations today. And, you know, it really is an example of how we are using our opportunity, our position, to expose them so they get a new perspective and can add even greater value to what they already know.

An interesting anecdote, we had our Trinidad and Tobago Energy Conference just a few weeks ago And one of the things we put together was what we call the next generation of leaders. So we went out to all of the major companies and asked them to give us, who is your next generation set of leaders? Who in the next decade are the people who are going to be coming forward and leading your company? We didn't mention anything about gender. But then the group— so we had 6 people came forward. 5 of the 6 were female. So that's an interesting change. And I think that 5 years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. So that is a big shift. And I think we have seen some companies— so, I mean, the one that really comes to mind was BHP. Now, just merged their petroleum division with Woodside, but BHP set themselves a very clear objective that they had to be 50/50, that the gender balance of their organization had to represent the gender balance of the population, because otherwise you're leaving a lot of talented people you're not bringing in. Into the system. Anyway, so Stephen, any thoughts about people management within planning?

Yeah, well, I agree with everything that Dion said, but also I just want to, again, as we went back perhaps where we started, you know, our energy companies generally provide a service that is essential, and I think, you know, they have done a good job at that, but You, but providing that essential service, you can't do it without people. You know, having, uh, the electricity available, you know, going 24/7, having fuel when you want it, it takes people. Because, and you know, if we fail in developing people, we will fail in providing the service. And you know, that's when things will start to go awry. The other big thing is that, you know, energy companies, we tend to deal in a product that can kill. So safety is, you know, a big imperative of everything that we do, you know. Um, so, um, and I think having that safety focus, again, you know, you can't develop a safety focus in your company unless you really have people involved, you know. It's not something you can develop a system and say that is it, you know. The people have to be involved. So I think with that energy companies have always, I think, maybe been a bit at the forefront of some of the, uh, trends in, uh, in HR, you know, in terms of bringing new trends. Um, you know, as Dion mentioned, you know, there was a time when the image was of just a bunch of old engineers, male engineers, but that has changed rapidly. And I think so, it's not just JPS, but it's across, I think, most of industry, uh, that you are seeing these changes, that people have to be developed. And, you know, while, you know, well, for us, we, we sometimes provide a physical product in terms of the fuel, you know, JPS's product is more intangible. But, um, it, you really, you know, I think we recognize we cannot provide that product without the people. And, you know, and the people have to be empowered. So, um, You know, so especially as we change, you know, we have to be reskilling here at TotalEnergies. You know, people who made their living selling petroleum now have to be, you know, thinking of selling renewable energy systems as well. So, you know, it's— we are facilitating, you know, people to make such changes.

So, Daniel, I noticed— so we're sort of at the end of the time we had set aside for the session. Um, there were other things I wanted to discuss, but, um, I guess, do you need us now to wrap up?

Yes, I think we are going to wrap up now, um, because we want to stay on time, um, for our amazing networking session that's happening later this evening and also welcoming Dr. Reynolds in a short while. So I really want to thank Stephen and Dionne for joining us, and of course Dax for being an awesome moderator to, you know, just bringing a whole new perspective on strategic planning, delivering strategy in your sector and being able to move this into other industries. What we heard today was that recognizing, you know, energy, as Steven said earlier, this is a long-term. We're not talking about a 3 to 5-year strategy that many of us are working on. Energy is long-term. We're talking 30 years, 20 years, and that level of very high level of investment. So recognizing long-term drivers and demands for all stakeholders, and I think the, the, um, all stakeholders was what was so important there. Um, I really enjoyed where we talked about being a part of developing the whole industry, the whole sector. There was a lot of conversation around collaboration which we also saw in the financial panel that we had earlier. I like where we talked about not just creating strategies, but creating implementable strategies, Dionne. I think that was you saying, you know, we can plan till we— we can plan and plan and plan, but are we creating strategies that are actually implementable? Constant exploration, looking at global opportunities for our industry. Creating a diversification strategy and being committed to delivering on them. You know, things are going to come out of left wing. Some— something in life is going to slide tackle you, for anybody who knows football, um, or take you way down the wicket that you had not planned for. My cricket fanatics, some things are going to happen, but we want to stay on course of our strategy but while still remaining agile. Of course. Um, we talked about creating strong collaborations with governments and regulators and getting alignment. So when we're ready to do something big, roll out something new, everyone is fully aligned. And then, you know, in closing that, you know, really learning how to balance profits, sustainable business, environmental impact, health and safety, and of course developing people at the same time. This was the robust conversation that we have just had for the past hour. We are thankful to Stephen, Dionne, and of course, Daphne. Thank you for joining us. Any last words?

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for organizing such a really nice— I mean, I really enjoyed this opportunity to talk to colleagues in Jamaica who I know, but we don't always talk, and it was just great to be able to link up. So thank you for that.

Thank you.

Okay. Thank you so much again for joining us. So ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a 10-minute break. You'll be moved into the lounge, but when you come back, we'll bring you right back. Grab a snack, move around, and we have so much ahead. I'm totally excited to continue this day with you. We'll be back in actually less— yep, exactly 10 minutes. See you at 3:58.