Bringing Your Neurodivergent Self to Work: Thriving with ADHD & ASD

Welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, also known as the Geeky Girl. In this podcast, we're gonna be talking about some amazing things to help you get over overgiving. Hi, and welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, and I'm also known as the Geeky Girl. I am super excited to bring this guest back today. We're gonna have an amazing time, and I'm glad you're here for it. Natasha M. Nurse, Esquire, is a neurodivergent pathfinder who thrives on storytelling to spark change and foster understanding. Driven by empathy, She creates inclusive spaces where every voice is valued through dynamic workshops, impactful content, and insightful conversations. She works to embed diversity at the core of every organization she engages with. Her life motto is simple, and I love it, and profound. Learn something new, meet someone new each day, and endless curiosity fuels her creative and professional pursuits. Thank you so much for joining me again, Natasha. I appreciate you.

Thank you. So excited to be here.

And we're going to be chatting a little bit about the power of bringing your neurodivergent self to work each and every day.

Oh yeah.

I think that's a really cool angle to take on it.

Yeah, primarily it's because of— I think since the last time we worked, uh, we chatted together, uh, some, you know, stuff have happened in my career. I was in like the DEI and HR space, and then like the 300,000+ Black women who no longer are working in that space this year. I too was a part of that, but was lucky enough to find MRM Education where I was able to come on board and literally like through the interview process, bring my neurodivergent self. It was one of the first things I talked about, like, hey, I'm autistic, I have ADHD, those party tricks like to go together, fun, fun, fun, copy paste. My son is autistic, right? And the founder, Matt McGee, is all about it and really essentially designed the role to make sure that that is the scope of the work I'm doing. If I'm not out here creating content or sharing more about the tutoring and executive functioning that the company does, I'm developing partnerships with organizations and schools that tailor their efforts to neurodivergent students, but also diverse learners and also serving neurotypical students. And then also just being able to be a voice in the community, in like peer support groups that I do. It's just, I've been bringing forth that part of who I am now that I know that that is who I am. And it feels like life is not so much a holding of my breath, but I can actually take a breath and breathe and learn and uncover more. Because just 'cause you find out, you know, like, oh, that's what's happening. That's just like the beginning of this journey. Very much so.

And I'm so glad that you brought that up. Because when you and I first chatted, you were in— let's be honest, it was a clusterfuck of hell in understanding where you were headed and what was going to become of what was happening around you. And we're not out of it. The storm is still raging. There is still incredible hell that you are moving through. But it's very Awesome, very awesome. It's amazing to hear that you have found something that is able to be molded and brought to your— and I really believe that it's really important for us to find those things and not only find them, but to help co-create them.

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, some of the things that I love, a lot of parts of my role, but it's also the opportunity to have autonomy, freedom, like freedom of my time and being able to work and not be so rigid as to how I work, which really works well for neurodivergent people because, you know, yes, you can have that 9 to 5 schedule, but so many of us are, you know, we'll have that sweet spot where we can hyperfocus and maybe that's like 3:00 PM to 9:00 PM, right? Having the flexibility, having a founder who understands, hey, it's about getting the work done, but it's also about working in a way that works well for you and your brain is beyond quintessential. So I'm really grateful to the organization for that. And also other organizations that I see, It's few and far between that are trying to be a bit more flexible and not so regimented around how the work happens, but really focusing on what the work needs to be done and supporting the people who are doing it.

And I have to say, like, in my corporate journey, I had all the experiences and my best experiences, even though I didn't know at the time I was neurodivergent, even though I didn't know those things, I just knew how I worked and the people around me in my best experiences allowed me that flexibility to, to be sort of fluid into how things worked. And man, I did some amazing things in those roles. And because I was supported, I felt good about doing them, right?

Yeah.

Did I take on too much? Yes. Was I overworked and underpaid? Yes. Did I do the bad things along with it? Sure. But knowing now, right?

Yeah.

Like, and people say, like, is it important to get diagnosed? That's your choice. That's totally yours. However, what I'll say is that it has been empowering for me to know how my brain works and to learn about what, what fuels me and what drags me down.

Yeah.

And that has been so monumental to still being able to create amazing things but not burn myself out in the process.

Exactly. Yeah, it's kind of wild. Like, I'm in my late 30s and I, to be honest, I feel like I'm more like a 3-year-old than I am a 39-year-old. Like, I, I feel like it's just like so— it's such an interesting shift once you start to understand more about who you are, to then start to approach life in alignment with that and really try to uncover what are the values that I need to adhere to that support who I am, how my brain works, and what I want out of life? Because, you know, no one is coming to save us. Like, Mel Robbins always loves to like share that, and I'm like, you go ahead and tell them, sis. Like, no one is coming to save you.

Yes.

Right? Like, you have to save yourself. So what does that look like for you? What does that look like in your career? What does that look like in your relationships? What does that look like in your friendships, in your family life? What the hell is this supposed to be? Because if we're writing the story, then pick up the pen and write the outline. And a lot of it first, I think, becomes a lot easier when you start to understand who you are. So I agree, you don't have to get diagnosed, but by golly, does it help?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, and as you— I didn't get diagnosed until I was in my 30s, so late diagnosis here. Right. And I think that's true for a lot of women because of how they diagnose people typically moving forward. The guys usually get the diagnoses easier than we do. But that being said, I think that, A, I brought along a lot of coping mechanisms I didn't even realize were coping mechanisms before I had the diagnosis. But then you're right, you do feel like, oh my God, I'm a child now because I'm having to rediscover who I am. I am having to rediscover what actually works for me. And I can, I could, you could. But once you move past that, this is, this is the beautiful, this is the sweet spot, right? Once you move past the, I'm, I'm a child, and then you start to say, okay, yes, I can write my own outline. Yes, I can plan my own existence on this planet, and I can make the difference I want to make. There is this amazing empowerment that comes from, I made this.

Absolutely. Like, you know, the best part about this journey so far, and that I'm able to to kind of, I think, exuberate that in the work that I do is I feel like I can be kinder to myself because when you don't know when you're struggling and you feel the struggle, but you don't know how to name it, you don't know how to process or deal with it, you shame yourself. Shame is such a big thing, especially with folks with ADHD, right? With a lot of negative self-talk, a lot of neurotypical standards that we're holding ourselves up against. And it's like, of course you're gonna feel really shitty because you're judging yourself in a non-inclusive way. and saying, hey, why can't I do this better? And that's— better isn't the objective. It's what works for you, right? And it's— perfection is not the goal. It is never the goal. It's progress. So what does progress look like for you, right? And really taking a step back to say, how can I be kinder to myself? How can I love myself? How can I even be proud of myself? You know, I've struggled with that my whole life because I've always been, I think, chasing the big nickel in the sky. But that wasn't the nickel or the coin for me. I needed to take a step back now. And now I'm reassessing trying to figure out what does daily success look like for me. Taking the— because again, as an autistic person, we love a good structure, a plan. What am I doing for the next 6 months? Right? Whoa, whoa. We're creating more stress for myself. Can I just feel good for today? Can I create a daily schedule that makes me feel like I can, like, at the end of the day, feel good about what I did, feel good about who I am? Those are 2 different questions and 2 different answers. And then Get excited for what comes next tomorrow, and then keep going, and then we'll arrive at that 6-month mark. Now, in my mind, am I still thinking 6 months, 6 years, 60 years? Yes. She's thriving. She does what she does. But I'm a lot less shaming of myself, which I'm like really excited about because that was decades of that in my life.

Well, and we talk about, you know, These self-talks, like I talk about the guilt monsters, right? Like the, the things that we should all over ourselves about. A lot of that really comes from the stories that other people tell about us. So other people will say, you're a— I used to— they used to call me a daydreamer in school. It wasn't that I was daydreaming, I was just needing to do something else while you were talking because that's boring, but I'll pay attention if I can do something else, right?

Mm-hmm.

So the stories that other people tell— you're a failure, you're no good, blah blah blah blah— that feeds into your own personal stories because you take them internally as a child. Right?

Yep, exactly.

But what you're talking about is rebuilding your own story, choosing to believe different things about yourself. And I think that the one thing that I think is— I often will talk about, even my kids or like people around me, it's like, yeah, what story are you telling yourself?

Um, oh gosh, and what story would you rather tell about yourself?

And if that doesn't work, I say, would you like it if you were talking— if somebody talked about your friend like that?

Exactly. I, uh, yeah, one of the things I'm really proud of my son is that we anchor around feelings, right? So we have emotion posters on multiple levels of the house. We're constantly, how are we feeling? And, you know, when he does things and gosh, we have him busy swimming this, that, right? All the things. I always ask him like, how did you feel about this? And are you proud of yourself? Right? Because I want him to understand it doesn't matter if mommy and daddy are proud of you.

Right?

Because A, we won't always be here. I need him to learn the language and the feelings and the experience of, what does it mean to be proud of yourself? I don't know what that is. I'm starting that now. You know, I remember doing things and being very productive and being a high performer, right? Yay. Like so many high-functioning autistic people are. But does it— did I have any experience on the inside? No, it was dead. It's just like, so it's always been really hard to feel accomplished, to feel like this mattered. and also distinct— having the distinction between what you do and who you are. So many people have lost their jobs, right, globally, but especially like in the US, right? So many people are struggling with that. People feel like their lives are coming to an end because they don't even know how to define themselves without having a job title. And that's really scary because, again, who you are is separate and apart from what you do. Now, who you are flow into what you do? Absolutely. If you're a creative person, a passionate person, an organized person, Then those are things that funnel and foster whatever your career choices look like. But you are a person separate and apart from what you do.

100% true. And it is hard, you know, like, uh, we take things on, uh, and I can only speak from my own personal experience, obviously, but I see it in other people too, where we like, I am an entrepreneur, I am a business owner, I am a coach, I am a systems designer, whatever the case may be. Like, no, you're not. You're a human being. Those are the things you do.

Exactly. Yeah. That's why, like, if you find me on LinkedIn, A, you'll laugh because you'll say, wait a minute, this person has 27 profiles. You found me on LinkedIn. Yeah. Like, but like, I now go by the title, yeah, Neurodivergent Innovator, because I do a lot, right? Like, I'm a managing director at MRM Education. I consult, I speak, I blog, I create content. I do a lot of things. Those are things I do. But who I am, I'm neurodivergent and I'm an innovator. In whatever space you find me in, I'm going to be innovating. I'm hopefully uplifting, empowering, hopefully making you laugh at the end. But we're going to have fun and we're going to play in this thing we call life. We're not going to align specific titles and that's all that I am. No, no, no. You are a human who does XYZ, right? But first, let's get to know the human in each and every one of us.

And I think it's interesting. I don't know where I heard this. I can't pull it out of my head at the moment. But there's that whole, the whole concept of human being versus human doing.

Ooh, love that. Yes.

Because we spend so much time in our society and we're doing. What can I do? What can I accomplish? How can I? And I think back on my life, like when I was a kid, I shut down. I was hella smart. I was obviously neurodivergent but didn't know it. And instead of standing up and saying, hey, I'm this really smart person, pay attention to me, I shut down. So I looked like an underperformer. I looked like I was dumb. I— right, like all of those things. Because I just went, I just need to get through this place and out, baby. Right?

Yeah.

But now in my life, I'm like, I am smart. Look how smart I am. Look how amazing this is. This is fun. And so I think that As we move through our journey, you can change who you are because of who you believe you are.

Yes, exactly. I say it all the time, like, your life is a reflection of your mind. So if you view yourself as dumb, then you will have a dumb existence. If you view yourself as less performing or lower performing, then that's what your life is. So, and then also, I always tell people, you can't expect people to view you a way that you refuse to view yourself. So if you refuse to take yourself seriously, if you refuse to see yourself as powerful and capable, why should anyone else? It starts with you. It always starts and begins and ends with you before seeking and referring to the validation of others. And we as a society, especially American society, I'm sick and tired of that part of our culture, of this craving, this needing of others to view us or something that we need from others. It's like, well, why can't you? Why are you not enough? Like, why? You know, so that's why I really hope that, like, from this conversation, people, A, if they are maybe like, well, I do feel like maybe I should get it diagnosed, like, or figure out more about themselves, like, go on that journey. You know, you don't have to wait to start the journey on January 1st. Like, you can start that journey every single day. Try to uncover something new about yourself every single day, every single week. And then if you need help, gosh, go ask for it, right? There's a lot of free resources and people out here who can help you.

Yeah.

Figure out who you want to be, right? And to your point, rewriting that story, that happens every 24 hours. Every single day you can rewrite a different chapter or different page. You just have to want to. You have to say yes and then do the work. It's not just going to magically happen. You have to do something.

And I think it's also important to say that you don't have to have a doctor diagnose you. If you, if you identify as neurodivergent because you've done your own personal research or you have looked into things and you're like, oh, this aligns with, with what happens with me and I feel really connected to this. You need a diagnosis for other medical things, that's different, right? Like if you need— if there's programs in— and I appreciate that that's not happening for you guys a lot right now, um, but if you need it for those reasons, that's different. But you as a human being, your story, your, your message—

Absolutely.

I get I get really pissed when people say, well, do you have a proper diagnosis? I'm sorry, girl, but it doesn't matter whether somebody has a proper diagnosis or not. If I connect with that message and if I say, you know what, that feeds my soul and understanding that has made me the person I'm intending to be, or it allows me to become that person that I know I can be, then screw the haters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And take it. But if you need the diagnosis because of something else, you know, a program or some sort of thing, that's a different story.

Yeah.

But I think that people get caught up like, I can't afford the diagnosis. I know that's— I, I, I hate that you guys don't have healthcare like we do. I really do. We have our own problems with our healthcare. It's not perfect, right? But the fact that you have to pay for every breath down there really kills me. But yeah, yeah, don't let that stop you is all I mean.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. You know, and the other thing is there's a lot of misinformation, right? Like, I, I remember listening to someone say like, oh, to get tested for autism it's like $10,000. And it's like, well, not really. It's like if you have a health insurance plan that allows for you to see a psychiatrist, psychologist, um, then they can— who specializes in that they can see you and then your copay is probably more like hundreds of dollars, not necessarily thousands of dollars. And I think also, I think some of the— there's a lot of, as you know, right? Like what people— people will take advantage. So they feel like— I think there's fear around the self-diagnosis narrative of like, well, then everyone's just going to hop on this bandwagon. It's like, this isn't like a Birkin, right? Like, I don't think people are craving the opportunity to be like, I'm autistic. Me too.

Me too.

Me too. Like, no, I think that people, to your point, yeah, they're hearing these stories and these narratives and they're like, whoa, this really resonates with me. And also because neurodiversity and autism is so interesting in that, like, you know, like even with me and my son, we share similar things, but we also do not share similar things. And also like there's other factors that happen and go into it and it can be really hard to be like, well, what do you mean? And it's like, well, that's why we say it's a spectrum, right? Like there are different ways to present.

Yes.

And it's not just one. Again, the human beings, we're— I know it's archaic because of how we just, you know, existed in this world thousands of years ago, but like, we can think outside the box. We can break the box a bit and we can try to open our minds, but it's hard because I think culturally we very much love to box this in, categorize it, put it on a shelf and move on. But that's not how you look at brain science. That's not how you look at society. That's not how we evolve as people. We have to learn to take the shelves down and start to be a bit more fluid with how we observe things, how we welcome things into our life, and not be so scared. Because a lot of it, I think, is fear-driven because it's kind of like, well, what if 80% of the world ended up being neurodivergent? What does that mean? Right? It just means we're people.

That's it.

We're just people.

Exactly. So We've talked a little bit about neurodivergence and, you know, the neurodivergent brain and the different pieces of that. And then we've talked about, you know, is diagnosis or no diagnosis, that kind of thing.

Yeah.

What do you think about, uh, like, how do you think that plays into bringing yourself to work every day? Like, the, the, the journey of the, the, the discovery, the do I need diagnosis, how does that play into bringing it To your daily life.

So this is really— it's an interesting conversation because, you know, A, I just— I want to acknowledge that it's not always safe, especially here in the States, to bring your neurodivergent self to work because there are industries that don't give a damn. That's just the reality of life. There are really cutthroat industries that they don't want you to bring your authentic self, much less your neurodivergent self. They're like, no. Keep that to yourself, which is really hard. But why it's important to acknowledge that is if you know that about yourself, if you know that you would be better served in a work environment that has flexibility, that the managers are people-oriented, you know, and God forbid, focus on culture, focus on the humanity of the workforce, then you know that these are the organizations you need to apply for. These are the places you need to align yourself with. Because, you know, if you can't necessarily talk about that in an interview, if you can't need— if you can't be in a space where you can take a mental health day, if you can't be in a space that is willing to invest in developing an employee resource group system or affinity group system in your workplace, if you can't have a book club around this, like all the things that can be really beautiful and really people-focused and centered, then that's not your space. There's not something wrong with you. That's space isn't for you. There's a difference, right? And so we need to understand that about ourselves so that we know where to point and focus our energies to, because those spaces, are they going to forever be that way? No, nothing lasts forever, right? But at the end of the day, you have X amount of time in your life, right? And so unless you're on a mission to change and break down walls, then you got to do what's going to serve you, right? And attract yourself to those places. And then We have to talk about the advocacy piece of it, right? So even, even in spaces that are very inclusive, that are very welcoming to it, could they do better? Yes, you can always do better. So, you know, how— what does that look like for that org? What does that look like for you? What accommodations maybe have you not asked for that you would like to ask for? What are ways that we can open up and offer new benefit packages and that really serve not only you in the workplace, but also Support at home, right? Like at MRM Education, we are, uh, we're launching to offer tutoring, executive functioning support, and college prep for employees. Why? Because employees struggle with trying to figure out how do I balance my work responsibilities with, oh crap, my kid needs to go to college. I don't know what the first thing to do. They need tutoring. They need executive support. It's really hard to duplicate yourself, uh, AKA impossible. So why not have employers provide the support for the employee at home so that they can be better employees at work, whether they work virtually or in person, right? Like, so it's about figuring out what are the spaces that can be innovative like that. And that's where you need to go. That's where you need to work. That's where you need to champion.

Well, and I think that regardless of whether you're looking to find a job or career in a corporate setting, or whether you're trying to build your best life inside your own business, regardless of what track or tracks you'd like to be on, right? There are times in our lives where we have no choice but to work where we work, or we have no choice but to work with the people that we work with. And I think that what I'd like to impart in that is—

Yeah.

Just understand if you're in a situation where you just have to work in that situation, Don't give yourself to them. You stay and do just what's expected of you. Don't give extra. Just do what you have to do. Don't give away your soul to those people. And while you're there, keep looking for the right opportunity because that is where you want to give your soul.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a good point because there are— and I struggle with that too because again, I don't want people to feel like life is just an exercise again of holding their breath and being stuck because it doesn't have to be. You can innovate. But, you know, what I think people get caught up on is the timeline that it takes. There are people here, if you look on social every day, I see people talking about being unemployed or being stuck for years. Right. And that's really hard to hear and really hard to see. But, you know, you got to think outside the box. You can't just be like, oh, gosh, it's not happening. It's never going to happen. Right. No. And to your point, if, if you are in fact in a role where Maybe it isn't serving your soul. Okay. Maybe you feel like you're going to be here for the next 1 to 3 years, 1 to 5 years, whatever the timeframe is. What are the things that you can do outside of that situation that does serve your soul? Right. So do you want to volunteer? Do you want to start a side hustle? Do you want to do different things with your kids on the weekend? Like figuring out the things that serve you and then trying to pour as much of you into those activities. So that when you are in those spaces that don't make you jump for joy, you aren't— yeah, you aren't dying on the inside, but you're like, okay, this is a plan. I'm sticking to this plan for X amount. But create that plan for yourself. Give yourself those boundaries because you do deserve something better. But maybe, you know, you got to kind of bide your time for what you're working on now.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, We have to find a way to survive on this planet, and part of that way is that we need money to do that, right? So I understand that the opportunities aren't always the opportunities that feed your soul, but remember that if it's not feeding your soul, don't give yours away. And I love the fact that you said find the joy outside of work, right?

Yeah.

Find the thing, the spark, whatever fills you outside of work. Give your soul to that, right? I mean, if you— I don't know, if you're like, I want to be— you love astrophysics or something, but you have to work at McDonald's, that's fine. But like, spend your time in joy and dig into like that thing that really feeds your soul while you're not at work. I love that concept.

Yeah, you know, and then also create around that space, right? Like, you know, especially if you have creative abilities like writing and things like that, like create a comic, create a story around what a person who would be an astrophysicist would be doing, right? Like, you can also create the life you want in fiction, and then you don't know what could come of that. That could be a book, it could be whatever, it could be, you know, podcasts. Like, so yeah, I think you still should, like, pour into the life you want. But to your point, yeah, like, figure out what the terms of that are going to be, you know? And don't be afraid to take risks, you know? I think that to your point, yeah, like, we got to pay bills. So you want to be prudent whenever you can be, but you should still dream. I really hate when people are like, oh, I can't really do what I want. And I'm like, who says? How come?

Yeah.

No.

Find a way.

Yeah, exactly. Because if it really mattered to you, that's the funny thing about the human spirit. If we really want something, we find a way. So be determined. And to your point, as you were talking to me earlier, If you're— if someone you loved really wanted something, wouldn't you move heaven and earth to make sure they had it? So why can't you do that for you? Why can't you love yourself into the trajectory of progress and transformation that you want, right? It's— you just have to say yes to you. It starts with the yes.

Right. And, you know, to the point of bringing your neurodivergent self to work and also having to navigate maybe some sticky situations, maybe you're in a situation where it's not inclusive or it's not open to this concept. It doesn't mean to say that you have to come in and say, I'm neurodivergent and here's my flags and blah, blah, blah. Here's all my things. You can still bring your neurodivergent self to work and shine in the way that you shine with your own specific ways of doing things without getting yourself stuck between that rock and hard place with some of the problems that are going on with no DEI stuff.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think try, and this is hard because most people leave their jobs for either compensation issues, benefit issues or poor people managers, right? Because most people managers are not properly trained, so thus people leave. So if you are in a situation where you aren't necessarily like working with a really poor people manager, trying to have a good relationship with that person is going to best serve you, right? Because that's the person who's going to promote— like want to put up your name for promotion, want to hear your requests for things that would make your work life better, right? And, and being able to share, you know, and you can identify whatever you feel comfortable identifying as and And again, your other partners in the workspace would be HR. I know people don't like to think that, but they are. They're supposed to be. So I know I tried my best. And then also anyone who is for culture. So culture, DEI inclusion, also corporate social responsibility folks on the team, like people who are dedicated around people. You want to try to align yourself and you can do little things. Like I said, employee resource groups. You know, employers are open to forming those. You don't necessarily have to do one around neurodiversity. You can just do one around, you know, kind of culture or, you know, women at work. Like, you can figure out identifiable groups that make sense. Submitting to start a book club, maybe pick a book by Temple Grandin, right? Like, you can put a little bit of neuro spice in the things that you're doing without it being a full-on pledge, like pledge you know, walkathon, but how cool would that be?

Yeah.

But you can do the things that then make you be like, oh, that felt good, right? Like, yes, you know, what are fundraising opportunities? Can you utilize corporate funds to support neurodivergent schools in your community or endeavors or campaigns, right? Like, find the things that will help. But again, the name of the game is action. No matter what you're doing, whether you're self-identifying, whether you're asking for accommodations, whether you're trying to build community, whether you're trying to discover more about yourself, action, action, action. You've got to do something if you want to create a different result for yourself.

100%. I love the fact that you focus on the action because hoping, wishing, dreaming, that's great, right? It's action that's going to move the needle.

Oh, yeah. I had a former manager tell me I had a bias for action, and I take that in a way way to say, I don't know, it doesn't sound particularly phenomenal, but I take it as I am a person who's going to create change, who's going to do something. And by gosh darn it, it's going to be inclusive because I really want to support people that look and think like me. And these are the most vulnerable people in the workforce and AKA in life. So yeah.

I think that it's cool, like them saying that you have a bias towards action and being able to go, Yeah, why not? Isn't that how you should be? That's awesome, right?

Exactly.

They might have thought it was a dig, but for you to go, that's right. I will say that finding the champions are important, like you said. Find the people who you can be with that are sort of of mind, of same mind or similar mind is important. Be mindful about what people tell you. Just like somebody's told you you have this bias towards Mm-hmm. I once had a— it was one of the best corporate situations I'd ever been in. However, I had a boss tell me that I was their loss leader. So basically, a loss leader, for those of you who don't know, it's essentially if, let's say, you want to go and buy something at a store and the flyer comes out and there's this thing that's really, really cheap on the flyer. And so you go to the store for that thing and you end up buying 17 other things. Okay, so that's the loss leader. So he saw me as a very cheap employee who was somebody who was going to deliver so much more for everybody else that, that came in. Okay, and I took that and I went, how rude.

Mmm.

Because I deserve to be paid what I was worth. It ended up making me leave their organization. But, but I could have taken that differently. I could have switched it, right? I could have taken that and said, yeah, you're right, I am a loss leader at the moment. You aren't paying me enough and I'm over-delivering all the crap that you want. So yeah, I deserve to be paid more and work a different angle. So it is hard. I will say it is hard in this situation to feel that slight.

Yeah.

How do you come back? So I love the fact that you took that thing like, well, yeah, I am.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, and what I then required, what I, what I tried to do now in conversation, because people— yeah, there's a lot of people who are in leadership who like to just pontificate, and they're like, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this. And so now I was like, okay, well, tell me when you make a final decision, because if you say X, I'm going to, right, autistically move forward and say, this is the plan, this is the strategy. Like, I'm going to start to build based on what you say. So if you don't want me to start to build, Then tell me when you're ready for your final decision. So I started to learn how I need to communicate because my mind is I'm ready. I'm like I'm ready to build, but like people are like no, I'm just like thinking out loud. Then preface that.

Yes, and you're right. You're right. That communication is important. Understanding how you think because if somebody just says to me, "Hey, Angela, I'm thinking of this," I'm like awesome, I'll go build it because I'm the same as you in that way, right? And people be like, "Well, I'm just thinking." Right?

Yeah, exactly.

It's like if you think about a spouse, like you come, you come home and you're upset or something and you want to tell your spouse about the bad day. You don't want them to fix it. You just want them to listen. But they want to fix it, right? Um, so being able to communicate and say, I'm just, I'm just spitballing here. I don't want to do anything, but here's what's going on. Um, and if your team members know that you think that way, then it'll be helpful to, instead of them going, why is she always building stuff? I don't know. We didn't ask her to build that.

Yeah, exactly. So that I've learned that, that I need people to tell me what, what they're doing when they're talking, right? Because for me, communication in my mind is all about purpose, right? So you're saying something because we're going to do something. We're not just saying to say. That's why I struggle with small talk. I am like most autistic people, and I struggle with just like just shooting the shit, right? Like, because I don't— what, what are we— I can't build. I can't— we can't transform. What are we doing, right? Like, when people are like, hey, let's have coffee, I'm like, for what? Like, what are we—

What is the purpose?

Yeah. Now, are you writing a book? Are you building a business? Now we're talking, right? Like But to just talk for talk's sake, I'm not your gal. Talk to somebody else, play with somebody else. So now, yeah, like I try to tell people, and it's similar with my partner, like, yeah, if I'm overwhelmed, I now say, listen, I'm not in a position where I can communicate right now. I can talk to you, you know, in 2 hours from now. Or, hey, we just did this, I need space, right? I need like— so yeah, so communication learning. To say what I need has been a big part of this for me too, because I think I was always— I like thought it, but I didn't say it because I didn't— I guess I didn't give myself permission to say it. And now I give myself permission.

Yes.

And it feels better because I'm like actually doing the things that like I knew I needed and I knew I wanted. I just wasn't articulating it well enough. And now people also like— and I work with them— they like say, hey, just thinking. And I put the pen down, right? Because I know Okay, you just doing you. Tell me when you're ready to actually build and then we'll build.

Yes. Well, and as neurodivergent humans, we typically are overgivers. We typically want to be people pleasers. That is a very typical trait across all the spectrum pieces. Typically, I mean, there's a few that aren't, which is fantastic. I'll take a piece. I'll take a little piece of that. In that we're in movement because we want to please the person who's speaking with us. We want to please the person who's bringing something to us. And so, um, it's interesting, that communication piece and how we can use that to our benefit.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And then we do that info bombing, right? Where I'll be like, hey, have you heard about this? And have you ever read this? And did you know you could do this? And people are like, Natasha, you sent me 25 texts in 4 minutes, right? Like, what are we doing? Right?

I was in the mode.

Yeah. I was just like, I was looking, I was We were here, right? And it's like, but I wasn't. And so I now start to learn that, like, yeah, just because that's what I'm doing doesn't mean the receiving person is in a space to hear that. So, like, letting myself know it's okay to give people space to go back and review. And I'm like, why did you look at all the things? Right? And it's like, because their brain is receiving information differently, is processing things differently. And so just, like, giving people grace as the same way that I need grace, because, yeah, I'm going to do things that you're you might just be like, okay, Natasha, right? And vice versa. And it's okay. It's okay to, to be completely confused. It's okay to be completely perturbed sometimes, right? Where you have to be like, huh, right? Because there's something to learn from that. There's a blessing in every uncomfortable moment. There really is.

Yes, 100%. Oh, I, I have so enjoyed all of our banter and, yeah, zipping through things and kind of feeling through the concepts of what we've talked about. And I love the fact that, you know, this obviously hasn't been our first conversation, but every time you and I talk, it's just kind of fun to kind of bounce back and forth and feel out what's working for us all.

Yeah, absolutely. No, it's always a pleasure. Yeah, neurodivergent folks, we, we usually love to just like get together because we're like, you get it, I see you, you see me, right? And it's like, hi, friend. In a way that neurotypical people are like, huh? And it's like, yeah, but it's, it's like home. I love it.

So tell us a little bit more about your amazing organization that you're part of right now.

Yeah, absolutely. So if folks want to learn more about MRM Education, again, tutoring, executive functioning support, college prep— y'all, people are putting in their applications, don't go at it alone, especially neurodivergent and diverse learners— please go to mrmeducation.com. If you want to get in touch, you can get a free educational consultation just to chat. There are people who will do that. You just go to mremeducation.com. You'll be able to request a consultation. You'll be able to have a really great tailored conversation just for what you're looking for. If you want to engage with me, natasha@mremeducation.com, but also info@mremeducation.com is the, is the place to be. And then again, please connect with me also on LinkedIn. I really love the conversations I have on there. And not all of them, some of them are a little bit different. Like, what? This isn't LinkedIn, this is Facebook. What are we doing? But generally, I love when folks connect with me. I do a lot of LinkedIn Lives there, you know, all the good things. So there's that. And then yeah, just please, please, please share this episode, right? I think that this is Because you can never talk about this enough. And I feel like there's definitely not enough conversation around neurodivergent individuals trying to thrive in the workspace. So I really would love for everyone listening to share this out.

Awesome. We'll make sure that we'll have all those things that you've mentioned in the show notes so that people can have them. Make sure we get your LinkedIn profile link there as well so they can easily find you. And yeah, watch for this. When you see this on social media, when you hear this on social media, um, definitely want to share it out and share it to somebody. Maybe you're somebody, a friend of yours who's struggling, or somebody who needs a little help, uh, maybe in their workplace or, or the way they're feeling. Give them a shout out and hand it over to them, and maybe it'll help them.

Exactly.

Thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate spending time with you.

Thank you.

Have a great day. Thank you so much for listening to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. Your support means the world to me. You can find show notes for this You can find this episode and other goodies at overgiversanonymous.ca. And if you enjoyed this episode or you enjoy the podcast in general, why not join us in the Overgivers Anonymous Facebook group where you can connect with overgivers from all over the world? Head on over to geekygirl.ca/group.