Transform Your Workplace with DEI Strategies

Welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, also known as the Geeky Girl. In this podcast, we're going to be talking about some amazing things to help you get over overgiving. Hi, and welcome to this episode of the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor. I'm also known as the Geeky Girl, and I am super excited to welcome Natasha Nurse here today to the podcast. Natasha is a neurodivergent pathfinder who uses the power of storytelling to create change and deepen understanding. She's passionate about building inclusive spaces where every voice matters, and she does this through dynamic workshops, impactful content, and meaningful conversations. Her mission is to weave diversity into the very fabric of the organizations that she works with. And Natasha lives by a simple yet powerful motto, which is learn something new and meet someone new every day. I love this. This philosophy fuels her endless curiosity and creativity, making her an incredible advocate change. I can't wait for you to hear her insights, for you to sit back and relax and enjoy our conversation. Grab your favorite drink and we're going to have some fun. So welcome to the podcast, Natasha.

Thank you. So honored to be here. Really excited.

I was, you know, I think it's really important that people understand, like, I, I don't know Natasha. I just saw you on LinkedIn and I'm like, this looks like a stunning, amazing human. And I really want to get to know you better. Thank you.

That's the, that's the impression I'm trying to lead with. So it worked.

I nailed it.

Nice. Very nice. I appreciate that. And, you know, it's really so honoring. Like, it's, it's, it's like, it's amazing. A lot of people will do that. Like, hey, I just stumbled across you and I just, I want more. And I'm like, y'all are so sweet. Where were you when I was 13 and so sad?

Like, yes.

You know, but happy to be here now for sure.

All of us neurospicy people are just like, where are the rest of us? Let's collect them all.

Yes.

Collect.

We're in a collection phase. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even learn I was neurodivergent until last May, and it's been eye-opening because, you know, when you live a reality but you have no names, no community, no understanding, it's so othering. Like, you're just like, oh God, I'm an alien. And so it's been so, like, heartwarming to really find my people and to understand, like, oh, this is why you behave this way. This is why this feels this way. And it's, it's been such a beautiful journey. So I'm so excited to connect with other neurodivergent folks and to also share wisdom with neurotypical people to learn how to make space for neurospicy folk.

That's perfect. And, you know, I mean, I didn't get diagnosed either till I was in my 30s. And in fact, it was a week after that that my oldest daughter got diagnosed. It was kind of weird, right? How, how it all comes around full circle and stuff. Yeah. And some people shy away from the labels. And, and I didn't really have a lot of thought about it at the time when I was 30. Recently, somebody, one of my doc— like, a doc— I had a doctor that said, I think maybe you have anxiety. And I'm like, really? You think so? I think I'm just stressed. And they're like, maybe you should go do some research and do some reading up. And I read it up, and I'm like, oh, girlfriend. Yeah, maybe I do have— oh, and I like my, my youngest daughter. I'm like, the doctor said I thought I had this. She goes, you didn't know you had anxiety? I'm like, why did nobody tell me?

That's a— I love how children are so savage, though. Like, they're so savage.

It doesn't matter how old they are, they're still savage.

They just— oh man, they give it to you whether you're ready or not.

Right?

Yeah. Okay.

But ultimately, I think the most important thing for me— yeah, the label isn't about what box do I fit in or how can I be identified. Like, those— to me, the label is more about, like you said, like, being able to go, oh, that answers the question. To me, I think labels are important.

Yeah. Yeah. And I hear you. That is actually like controversial too, right? Do you say I am a person with autism or do you say you're an autistic person?

Right?

Like which way you introduce and lead with is a thing for people. Again, I love the phrase, when you've met one neurodivergent person, you've met one neurodivergent person. Meaning that, right? Like we're all different. We all present differently. Even if I meet other folks who— I have autism and ADHD. Even if I meet people with the similar party tricks, their party tricks are different. And that's okay. And I think the point is, yeah, for me, Yeah. Label, no label. I needed understanding. I needed clarity. My brain was doing things that I wasn't feeling comfortable even understanding what was happening. And so, you know, that, that's where it's been grounding and, and really just like soul satisfying for me.

I get that. You're— and that's so awesome to think about being able to say, let's be, let's be honest, it's important to— it's awesome that we can be comfortable saying that.

Mm-hmm.

But there are times when people who maybe they have a diagnosis or maybe they don't have a diagnosis and they can be uncomfortable sharing or uncomfortable thinking that perhaps there's a diagnosis for them.

Yeah.

And this comes down to this, this big topic about inclusion, right? We have come through this time where we're like, oh, we want lots of diversity and we're working really hard for equity and we really wanna include everybody. And then now all of a sudden we've got these great big tidal waves of these tsunamis of like, shut that stuff down, right? So it's, it's, it's hard for me when I think about my children, when I think about other people's children. As we get older, we kind of have less fucks to give. So, you know, but like the younger people and thinking about like how all of a sudden they started to feel safe and now all of a sudden we're shutting them down again.

Yeah, I mean, it's because people have lost the true understanding, or maybe there wasn't real clarity and understanding. So when I think about DEI as a practitioner, as a person who lives this truth, waking up, right? Diversity is diversity 360, right? People always get caught up on race or gender or a specific demographic. But again, every person has something different about them. So when we think about diversity, it's really humanity is what it's at cost here. And then equity. Do you— do we not all deserve to have something, some part of the pie? Is there enough pie for everyone? Yes, but we have to facilitate facilitate the offering and the makings of such. And so that's that part. And then the I, inclusion. Again, who wants to not be invited to the party? We all want to be invited to the party to share in the blessings and the opportunity and also allow each and every one of our individual strengths to shine. For people to debate whether or not DEI is necessary or needed is to debate the existence of humanity. So if you don't want to be here, Then fine, but I do. So like, I love that. Figure it out.

I love the passion that you brought to that too, because it's so important. And I like the definitions you gave everything, which was really great. And I think that, you know, people, you're right when they talk about that diversity, like we're all diverse, we're all human. I, my mother very highly identified with being a feminist. And I never did identify with being a feminist simply because I came through the '80s with it, which was a totally different sort of like women are great and men suck. And where I came was when I came through it, I was like, I'm a humanist. Like, I think we all deserve to be treated equally, right? Like, doesn't matter. And this was all before DEI stuff that, you know, sort of came out. What's, what's saddens slash scares me is the conversations that I'm having with people that talk about, oh well, your truth isn't real, right? People are shutting you down. Like, No, it's not that bad, or that's not happening. How do you deal with those kinds of things, especially when you're dealing with companies that are trying to go through these things?

Yeah, it is challenging because it feels like massive gaslighting on a whole new scale, right? It's like telling— it's like when I've been in rooms where people are like, oh, you know, I don't see color.

Really?

You don't see color? Because I see color in your face and I see color in my face, right? Like, can we stop lying to ourselves? Can we stop— you know, racism doesn't exist. You had President Barack Obama. You had Kamala Harris. Okay, okay, right? Like, yeah, it's the problem is, you know, in our minds we are king, we are jury, we are judge, like we're all everything. And, and it's really hard for people to get outside of their own perspective. It's impossible for me to ask someone who is not, you know, a Black person or a Black woman to tell me how they can connect with my, my experience. They can't. It's not fair. But then on the flip side, it's not fair for someone not in my shoes to tell me that my existence does not exist, that I don't hurt when someone denies me opportunity, when I am afraid to share my picture because I might be bypassed for something, right? Like you. And that's where people fail to understand that, like, you can be right and I can be right, but we are right on different things. And we also have to give space to hear other perspectives because we're not going to always be in the rooms of situations that are happening. And people would rather, because they don't know, human instinct is to deny and to, to get away from it because we're like, oh, I don't know what that is. I don't like it. I fear. Right? But instead we need to say, oh, what is this?

Right?

Like, lean into the excitement of other, lean into the uncertainty of what's happening, and then try to understand. And if you don't understand, instead of denying it, ask clarifying questions. Why did you feel this way? How could this have gone differently? How can I support you in this? Right? Like Black History Month. for people and organizations to be denying the celebration of that.

Why?

Yeah.

Why?

What is the issue? What is the issue of celebrating for a moment in time a group of people that have defined American history, that have defined global history? What is wrong with that? It doesn't mean to celebrate Blackness is to deny the greatness of others. And that's where people are doing that. They're like, if I make space for you, it means it's less space for me. No, it doesn't. The table expands.

And I find that with people, first of all, like, we all have— we all come to each discussion, each moment in our lives with some sort of bias. We all have a bias in our heads, regardless of what that is. And I know I have biases. They may not be the biases that would be called out in a social situation, but I certainly have things where, you know, I think a certain thing because I've been treated a certain way, or I think a certain thing because I've had an experience that influenced the way I think. That's a bias. And that's okay as long as, like you said, be interested, right?

Yes.

Be open to change. Be open to— I always say I'm open to being wrong.

Yeah.

Because I could be wrong.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And what people fail to miss is that we as humans only learn when we fall, when we falter, when we fumble. We don't learn when we win. So that's the thing. We have to lean into the failure because that's when you're going to be like, oh, I missed that step. Oh, I didn't see this. Oh, I didn't talk to these people. Yeah. So you won't make that mistake again. But if you're winning, you're never going to see where the deficiencies, where the gaps were. So we have to— we have to fail. And it's painful because some of these failures, you know, it's involving human life and emotional feelings. It sucks to fail, but that's the only way we'll get better as a society. And we have to stop cowering away from this.

I agree 100%. That's awesome. And I, I may not agree with everything you say. You may have different belief systems than I do. But what I think is most important is I, you know, we talk about this like-mindedness. To me, like-mindedness isn't we see the same all the time, that we understand, that we, that we agree on everything. My like-mindedness is all about finding people who are willing to be wrong, people who are willing to learn, people who are willing to grow. That's a like-mindedness I can get behind, right?

Yeah. Absolutely.

I, I'm never, I'm never one that's going to be like, I want to be part of the cult, whatever cult that is. It doesn't matter which one it is, right? I want to learn and grow and maybe be told I'm wrong or find out there's something that I believed before is not correct. And I think that's important for us as humans to get to the next level so that we can, so we can be better so that we can be more inclusive and so that we can be more supporting of other people. I think what's interesting when you talked about, you know, people thinking that they get less of a pie than the others. some of the stuff I've come up against, and our, our history between Canada and the United States is a little different. Like, so in, in the United States, the, you know, your population of the Black people have had a very tough road, and what you've guys gone through up in Canada, it has been our Aboriginal culture, right?

Yeah.

So it's similar in terms of how things happened, right? But like, the— we still have the way that those things have happened in, in Canada. And I, I can— I mean, I, I can only speak really from my own culture and what we go through, right? But sometimes people will say, and I find that some of the— it doesn't matter whether which group of people who have been slighted or who have been impacted in the past, they come to the situation of, why should I support this new thing? Because they didn't support me back then. And I think, hold on a second, just because you were slighted doesn't mean to say that you shouldn't now support the people that are now being slighted. I am fortunate for my skin color, but I'll tell you that it wasn't all that bed and roses when the people, I mean, from my history of where my family came from.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, I fit into the mold of what is not going to be physically represented other than the fact that I'm a woman and I've got the other part. Right? If I was male, it'd be way different. But I can only come from my own experiences. And I think, why is it that people think just because I help somebody, I get less? Why can we not be abundant? Why can there not be enough?

Yeah, because people do not have an abundance mindset, right? Because they fear that there's always a limitation because that's all that's pumped into media and things. It's we only have X amount of books. We only have this amount of things. deprivation is the standard in our life scenario wherever you are. So because people operate from that space, they will never want to make more space because they don't believe that there is more space to be made. And it's so interesting also how transactional people are in that if I do for you, you do for me. If you don't do for me, I won't do for you. Which, I mean, I have this conversation with my husband all the time, which is, you know, what do people want, right? When we wake up, what do we want? What are we here for? I think the problem of having— It's a beautiful— and it's like 2 sides of a coin. One side of the coin of life is like, it's really beautiful that life is whatever you make it, right? So it's endless opportunity, endless change, endless this. But then the other side, there's no definition, there's no clarity, there's no purpose-driven, like, why am I on this earth? What am I supposed to do? Because that is not well-defined for each and every one of us, then we are left to our own makings of deciding if we're going to see the world how we want to see it abundantly or— Not abundantly. We are also in the state where we can say, I only help my people. I only believe this belief. I only support this. Instead of saying, hey, to be human is to help thy brother and thy sister. To be human is to be one with open mind. To be human is to love first and judge later, or not at all, ideally.

Yeah, yeah.

None of that is given to us. And so because of that, we, we were making poor choices each and every day.

I agree on so many. Like, I mean, number one, you talk about media, but also that same comes down from, let's call it billionaires, right? Large CEOs, those kinds of things. I mean, if they can just keep the people down, right? If we can keep them uneducated, if we can keep them poor, if we can keep them wanting, then all they can do is get up and work every day and they don't have time to think. The minute they start thinking, now we're in trouble. That's That's my mindset. And again, this is, this is a bias, right? But it's my bias. I think of those, those kinds of people living in power and think that's how they're keeping all of us stuck, right? Or that's how they're keeping their, their pawns on the chessboard, so to speak, right?

Yeah.

And I think if only all of us could rise together. There's so many more of us, right? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, so in America, I don't know if they have it in Canada. We do have B corporation, like B benefit corporations. So not just the Standard C corporation, where the corporation is designed for the benefit of the world and the earth. And so they don't have to make— the board of directors don't have to make decisions that are only aligned with profit first, but they could be like, oh, this is better for the community. It may not make us as much money, but we're going to do that direction. So we have B corporations, which is nice, like, to see that there is that structure. And, you know, I think it's, it's a little bit challenging because I think there is automatically this rhetoric, like, if you're well-off person or company, you're here to destroy the Earth. I think that, like, again, like that, like, what do you do? You catch more with honey than vinegar, right? So like, what I'd love to do is see opportunities where companies are engaging with the community more to find out how they can make corporate socially responsible decisions, bring more money to funnel to, you know, like Flint, Michigan, for instance. Are you familiar with what's going on?

Yeah.

Right? Like, why is that still a thing? How many years has that happened? If 3 major corporations got together and got money, like, that would be eradicated, right? Like, so I think we have to find ways to get people to come to a common cause, opposed— as opposed to, like, demifying things. Because it's like, if they're like, well, I'm gonna just be my conglomerate, I'm just— they're not gonna help us, right? And it's like, and it's similarly with the conversation of allyship where You know, sometimes people will be afraid or frustrated with, like, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement and things like that. And it's like, we should not be making an enemy out of anyone, because at the end of the day, like, when I go into spaces that don't look like me, I need people that don't look like me to find a way to connect with me, to support me, to champion me. If I go in with an attitude thinking they're all my enemy and they want to be my enemy, then I'm screwed.

Yes. Yes. But you come to— you do come to certain situations. Like I said, everybody has their biases, right?

Yeah.

I know that there's good in the world, and I love and I celebrate those that do good in the world. And, and there's, there's so much, there's so much just darkness right now in the world, and all the things that are happening is really like— I stopped watching the news in like 2020.

Oh, wow.

I, I started reading, so If I, if I'm doing something that I'm sitting at a doctor's office or, you know, whatever, instead of being on my phone looking through all the news feeds and that kind of thing, I'm reading instead. I'm just choosing where to spend my energy, right?

Hmm.

But it's been really, it's been really challenging since the last election in the States to, to, to not, to not be part, but also to want to not be part. Because I feel like now we have to, we have no choice. We have to speak up. I think of all the people who didn't vote. In your election. And I think if you all stood up, if you all had taken a step, you know, and we have the same thing here in Canada, right? We don't all vote. There's lots of people who don't vote. And I think it's just time to just continue speaking. It's not time to stand back and just go, okay, I'm going to wait and see what happens. There's no wait and see right now.

Yeah, we have to stand together. Like you said, you know, if you're united, then we won't fall. But the problem is What does unity mean to you and me and everyone else?

Right.

All are motivated by different things. We are concerned and worried over different things. There is no common ground with humans. And that is why we'll never all stand together.

You're right. Yeah, you're right.

Because we have to decide, what are we standing together for? Is it for the love of human humanity? Are we going to say humanity means we live in a world where it's one race, the human race, and we are going to have an economy that operates for the benefit of all that, or are we going to have separatism? Right. And it's, I'm in this— this is my nation, this is my boundary. I have more, more guns, more money, right? Like—

Yeah.

What do people want? I want unity. I want peace. I want people to have basic needs met. I also want people to be excited to wake up and not, you know, want to jump off a bridge. I want people excited to create the way for us to get to another planet. I want people to find ways to protect the animals and the creatures that need protection because of the harm that we're doing. Like, But that motivates me. That might not motivate other people.

You're 100% right. Yeah. I mean, and the, I guess the interesting thing about being an entrepreneur is that if I don't have something that drives me, I go nowhere. Right? If I don't have a purpose, my business is going nowhere. And so as an entrepreneur, I feel like it's a really important piece to entrepreneurialism is to have that driving factor. And I'm, You know, I try to instill it with my kids and my husband, my husband's a teacher. So, you know, but to try to instill these things with people, it's like, what, but what do you want? Like, where are you going? Like, why are you making the life choices you're making? Like, do they align with where you're trying to head? And I, we didn't teach our kids this. Like they didn't learn it in school, right? They weren't empowered to do these things. Or, I mean, I didn't learn it until I was, I don't know, early 30s, probably when I started my business. But, but you're right. Aligning everybody, aligning to the same thing is. I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Yeah, I would be challenged. I would say that's probably the greatest lift for humanity, for us to stand together in unity. People don't— people prefer chaos because we, I think, I don't know if we're— well, the world is organized chaos, right? And to be human is an anomaly. So it's like we shouldn't have— not that we shouldn't have been here, but like, it's like, wow, it's some type of sorcery came to be. And so people just want to play it out. And we crave, like, madness, essentially. We crave attention. We crave, you know, chaos. And we don't— no one's like, oh, I crave peace, right? Like I do, because I've had so much being from New York. I'm like, no, take that somewhere else. Not today, please. But, you know, it took years and years of chaos for me to arrive at a space of like— And so I don't know. I don't know if humans have to suffer for another 500 years till we get to a space of where we're like, oh, you know what? This isn't working, everyone. We have to figure it out. And then who's going to lead that charge? And how are you going to get everyone to march in step? It's a lot. I don't know. Maybe the aliens will teach us.

Maybe. Maybe they'll find us first, show up here and go, oh, uh-uh.

I know. I know. Did you ever see Independence Day or no?

Yes.

Yeah. Do you remember the line where the president's like, what do you want? And can we have peace, he says. And then the alien's like, peace? No peace. And it's— I feel like people, it's like, if you're like, peace, no peace. People want chaos.

It's wild. To me, it's wild. And I think you're right. Like, the actual core piece of it is that we're never all going to be aligned to the exact same purpose. It's just not gonna happen. And in that, I see The struggle, right, for all of us to stand together. But I think that I still have hope for humanity, that even though I'm a glass half full human, I really am. But I think even if we can't all align on the exact same thing, right? Like, if we could align on, like, be and let be, maybe?

I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, I— so I think that there's a long future for humanity for sure.

Yeah.

But I think we're just going to have battles. I think we chose— there's a TikTok video where I saw this cat, and it's like, mother, mother, I chose violence for the day. I've decided as of right now, anything can change. The only final thing in life is death. That's the only final thing. So anything could change. But as of right now, I think people are ready for a fight. And this administration is clearly making round upon round of fights for folks. And we're, we're going to have to battle. And but to your point, we're going to, we're going to learn to use our voice. We're going to find our voice for some people. And, and then when it comes to neurospicy people, now, now is the time that we start— stop masking and start standing up for what we need, start asking for accommodations, start creating space for employee resource groups, for affinity groups, for education, for self and others. It's now is the time for activism. I think we're going to— we're in an era of activism because It is challenging roads ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. Have you read the Fourth Wing books by Rebecca Yarros?

No, I want to though. Are they good?

Yeah. All right. Yeah. I mean, and it'll give a whole new meaning to choosing violence. It's just, it's really good though.

It's very like Divergent-like then, huh?

It is. Well, it is the, the main character. Well, actually the author herself, she has EDS, which is, uh, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. I actually have hypermobility spectrum disorder, which is similar to EDS. So the character, the main character has. EDS. It's not said it, but like you can tell based on things in the story and then you read her story.

Yeah.

Kind of cool. But it's, it's a neat book and it'll just really clarify that whole, you know, choosing violence piece, which would be kind of cool for you.

Yes. Thank you. I saw that. I will never forget that TikTok. Cause I was like, that is so true. I mean, my cat, my, my cat that passed, he was, he told me he was violent in nature, 3 pets and he would destroy you. Like he was ready. He was ready for violence. So, but I was like, you know what? This is a symbolism for life, I think.

Yeah. Oh, it's unfortunate, but true for sure. So when you're thinking about like, you know, the, the, how can we, and, and I mean the royal we, both all of North America, not just your country or mine or Mexico, like that, all of us here who are embarking on this new journey together, how can we still be And I think about your clients, right? Like, how can you still bring the message of the importance of DEI, bring the value of their— them having a workplace that is inclusive and all those things? Like, how can you continue? How are you hoping to continue to do that? Let's follow that.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's about making sure that the talk matches the audience. Right? So there are some organizations that are like gung-ho about still moving forward with DEI, God bless them. And so you don't have to put on any extra curtain or veils for that. You can say the words as they are. But for other clients who are now, or organizations who are like, oh no, right? This is, you know, heathenism talk. Like, we can't talk about it.

Yeah.

Then it's about what is the true purpose of DEI? It is culture amplification. It is making sure your employees feel safe. It's employee empowerment, right? That's the same effect of DEI. You don't have to say DEI to have a DEI impact, right? So it's about using the words that will match whomever you're speaking to. So being strategic, being like nimble enough to get to the point.

Right.

And helping them also understand when you talk to a business, you have to talk business to business, right? So how is it making them money? How is it maybe reducing costs of losing employees through attrition? How's it going to make employees more productive? If you can talk about numbers to people who care about numbers, then you will move forward, right? But talking from the heart and emotion, that's not the audience. That's, you know, for a group of poets, which is, you know, phenomenal.

Yeah, yeah. It has its place.

Yes, it has it. But so it's about making sure you're doing that matching and then also being the change you want to see, right? And so if you are, say, an advocate for— and whether you're in the space or not of DEI, how are you a change agent? How are you empowering others? Are you mentoring? Are you giving back and supporting business owners of color, of diverse backgrounds? What books are you reading every month? Right? What content are you consuming? What podcasts are you listening to? We all can march in a space of change if we want to. But it's, again, do we want to?

Right? Yes. You know, I love the fact that you brought up the books, of course, because we tied those in earlier. But yeah, I have read books over the last several years that I probably never would've years ago, just simply because I would've thought, oh, that's not for me. Right?

Hmm.

But what's really cool about reading books who, that aren't for you, regardless of whether it's not for you because it's not your lifestyle, it's not your culture, it's not the, what you, what you live and breathe every day. I've learned so much about humans. Mm-hmm. And even though they might be fictional characters. You can guarantee that the authors aren't writing about things— typically authors don't— good authors don't write about things they don't know. Let's go there, right?

Yeah.

So when you're reading something and you're like, oh, this makes me feel uncomfortable, keep reading. And then find more books like that that are going to continue to make you uncomfortable, because it really— like, I get goosebumps when I think about what I've learned about humans.

That's okay.

And about different cultures and ways of life and that kind of thing that I would never have. And there'd be no way for me to learn it any other way. It's not like I'm going to immerse myself in somebody else's culture, you know, life or culture that way. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I've stumbled upon Korean dramas. I don't know if you watch any on Netflix.

No.

Those two I really recommend. So Itaewon Class and then It's Okay Not to Be Okay. Two of the most, most brilliantly, beautifully filmed Korean dramas that have taught me more about life than I feel like any other show. show, and I'm like sad. I'm like, where have I been all this time? What's going on? It's incredible. And it's what I love about it is because at least in America, here in the States, people are used to watching a show, working, cooking, right? Like you're not really present. If you're watching a show in another language, there's nothing else that could happen between you other than you and the show, and you gotta tune in.

Yes.

And I really love the opportunity to now just be more present in one moment, doing one thing, calming for my mind, right? Because ADHD be thriving and just paying attention to the words. And, you know, so much of the Korean culture is so fun and beautiful and also like harsh and interesting. Like, it's— the writing is all like to die for. It's so good. So if you have Netflix, please check out It's Okay Not to Be Okay and Itaewon Class. It's like— and Itaewon Class also has a graphic novel series too, so you can get that.

It's Okay Not to Be Okay I've heard about, but I haven't actually watched. I'll check them out. That's cool.

Beautiful, beautiful.

Awesome. So I would love to sit and talk to you for like another hour, but I know that, you know, like, attention spans are what they are, right?

Yeah.

I have loved, honestly loved speaking with you and spending time with you. And I know that people who are listening right now are like, how else can I get more of this lady? So can you please tell us where they can find you and, you know, how they can connect with you after this?

Yes, thank you. So everyone watching, listening, please find me on my podcast, Glamour, Giggles, and Goals. That's on dressingroommate.substack.com. And then also the website, dressingroommate.com. You'll find all my blog posts, where different media interviews I've done, all my social media handles, everything. So that's where I direct people. Please subscribe to the podcast. You can subscribe for free. I also like pay. But yeah, thank you so much for being here. This has been a really riveting and meaningful conversation. It's such an honor.

Well, thank you so much for being willing and open to just be honest and to share your experiences. And hopefully somebody who's listening will learn something or see a new perspective that maybe they hadn't had before. And that to me, I think, is, is the best thing that we can do with the planet, right, is to help each other see more, learn more. I think the more that we learn about other people, the more we're willing to be inclusive of other people. Mm-hmm.

I, 1,000% preach on it.

Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. And I, you know, those of you who are sticking around, please have a great week and I'll talk to you next week. Bye for now. Thank you so much for listening to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. Your support means the world to me. You can find show notes for this episode and other goodies at overgiversanonymous.ca. And if you enjoyed this episode or you enjoy the podcast in general, why not join us in the Overgivers Anonymous Facebook group where you can connect with overgivers from all over the world. Head on over to geekygirl.ca/group.