How The Loneliness Epidemic Is Ruining Your Health & Happiness

Hello friends. If you have relationships in your life, this is going to be for you. And of course you do. But today's guest is the author of the new book Resonance, and Michael Trainor is one of the most interesting individuals that I've ever met. But his book is what I'm obsessed with. Literally, I got this book before it even came out. He sent me a copy and I don't know that I've been this enthralled with a book because it is relevant, it's practical, and it solves a problem that all of us have, which is relationship challenges, whether those are personal or professional. As an As an entrepreneur, this is teaching me how to create resonance in the relationships and even the individuals who I want to develop relationships with. In my marriage, this is teaching me how to connect with my wife at a deeper and more meaningful level. With my children, this is teaching me the same, how to connect at a deeper, more meaningful level. This is the best book I've ever read, and it trumps to me— How to Win Friends and Influence People would be an example of the most famous book. In regards to how to connect with people at a deep, deep level. But here's where it goes beyond that. It talks about the actual scientific evidence and research around what challenges in our relationships do to our physical body. So our cortisol level is spiked when we're in stressful relationships. When we are experiencing loneliness or disconnection, our immune system is suppressed. And for me, what really resonates is our cognitive function is diminished when our relationships are not thriving. And you can relate to that when you're having an argument with, let's say, your significant other, your spouse, whatever, right? When you guys are fighting, like, it affects you mentally, emotionally, and even physically. So this conversation will unpack how you can create resonance, connection, deep connection in the relationships in your life that matter most. It's my great pleasure to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Michael Trainor. Michael Trainor, so good to be with you.

Hal, it's an absolute honor and a privilege, my friend.

I texted you about an hour or two ago and said, I'm obsessed with your book and I can't wait to be with you today. This— and thank you for sending me a copy— Resonance: The Art and Science of Human Connection. And I was just telling when we walked in here, complimenting you as an author of like how well the book is written, how practical it is, how actionable it is, how structured it is. Like, you know, so you don't go very far in the book without getting some sort of break in the writing to be like, okay, now here's how you apply this, or here's an exercise advisor. So dude, just well done.

Thank you, brother. I mean, especially coming from you with what you've been able to achieve, probably one of the greatest-selling authors of all time. I mean, it's, it's quite an honor to hear that from you. And, and deep, as I shared with you, deeply meaningful because as I mentioned, I wrote and rewrote it 3 times. I literally have 3 full manuscripts. Yeah. But I was obsessed with getting it to a place where, where it would be of maximum value to the reader. Yeah.

Let's talk about, um, often when I, you know, you hear an author interview and it's like they saved the book as an afterthought, I'm like, that's Dumb. You just spent, you just spent 3 years of your life. 6. 6 pouring your heart and soul to this. I'm like, we're, we're gonna just like make it a mention. No, like, then this is brilliant. So start with why, what is, you talk about the loneliness epidemic.

Yeah.

Um, 50% of Americans report being lonely despite our hyper-connected digital world. Yeah. Um, so talk about the, what's the problem that, that we are facing as human beings and, and how does this book solve it?

Yeah. Well, I think, so first of all, we're, we're in unprecedented times, right? Terence McKenna said that the world has changed more since 1992 than it did in the previous 1,000 years. And I think you and I are similar age, but I mean, I remember growing up as a kid skateboarding, no cell phones, no personal computers.

Oh, those were the days.

Right? Like incredible. And in my lifetime, in our lifetimes, we've seen the birth of the personal computer. We've seen the rise of the internet from like the AOL dial-up days now to like lightning fast, more information in the palm of our hand than previous heads of state had, you know, 30 years ago. And, and now the, of course, the advent of AI and the existential question around how are humans going to relate in this new era. And the consequence of that, which is being borne out in the research, is that we have what the Surgeon General calls a, a, basically an epidemic of loneliness, and that the equivalent is if we were smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

Yeah.

And so, and unfortunately it's getting worse, even and especially— and this is crazy— among people who are actually in relationship. So married couples, actually some of them report the highest incidence of loneliness. And so it's not just being alone in terms of the solitary aspect, but it's actually how do we relate beautifully together? How do we actually not just cohabitate, but how do we create resonance? How do we, how do we build what I would call next-generation relationships? And so the impetus for the book was really from my own personal journey, having gone from what society would call great success to profound loneliness, having also transcended some pretty significant traumas, being jumped as, as a kid when I was 12 and associating others with threats, and having to transcend being both a traumatized introvert and being able to then flex into, you know, becoming an extrovert. So having some insights in those tools on a personal basis, but then secondarily doing the research and connecting with, you know, Lieberman at UCLA and other, you know, cutting-edge neuroscientists and realizing that we process social pain. Like our social, like our nervous system is wired socially. Mm-hmm. And we process pain in the same centers of our brain as physical pain. Mm-hmm. And so it, it, it's incumbent upon us, I think, to have a new operating system for how we relate.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Loneliness is killing us.

That's correct.

Yeah. And disconnect. And it's interesting, I, 'cause I, if like I would, when I'm reading that, I'm going, well, this, I don't know if this applies to me. I don't feel lonely. Um, but so I think there's two ways to look at what I'm, as I'm reading.

Yeah.

Either someone who's like, yeah, I don't have like quality relationships. I don't feel seen. I don't feel heard. I don't feel like there's someone I can be vulnerable with and pour into. I think that's one part of it. But then for me, it's almost like the other side of it for someone that is like, I've got a great network and I'm pretty well connected. It's like this teaches you how to optimize and like really create thriving relationships. And I like it that it's in, it's almost, you mentioned marriage, people feel most lonely. This could be. A marriage book.

Sure.

This could be a business networking book.

Yes.

This could be how to create a thriving work environment, right? Like, it literally— relationships are the center of our lives.

That's right.

Um, and, uh, and I do love that you go so much into the science, both on the pain of like, dude, it actually— it hurts your immune system. You will live— you will, like you said, 15 cigarettes a day, you are shortening your lifespan if you don't have thriving relationships. And I think about in my marriage, when my wife and I have gone through difficult times and conflict and we can't, we're just not on the same page, can't figure it out. I, I, my cog, you talk about the cognitive function declines. You can't think as clearly. You, you're not happy. You're, you get sick. I mean, it's, it's across the board. And I think this first and foremost, it's like, oh wow. I wasn't even fully aware of how important relationships are. I, it's like, yeah, I didn't know. But like, I— the implications of not thriving, not having what you call resonant relationships. Talk about that word. Resonance is the title of the book.

Yes.

How does that apply?

Well, so the idea for resonance for me was really born out of— so I've had a deep passion for music my whole life, and, you know, my background is I launched a music festival called Global Citizen Festival, uh, in New York City, uh, a little over a decade ago with, with an incredible group of people.

Wait, wait, for those that don't know, they, I like, don't be too humble on that in terms of like explain. So I mean Coldplay, Beyoncé, like you brought together some of the biggest bands in the world.

Yes.

You had how many people in Central Park?

70,000.

70,000 people in Central Park and you raised how much money?

Well, our first year we raised $1.3 billion and in the last decade the festival's gone on to raise over $40 billion. Yeah.

And this was your brainchild, right?

Yes. Or was that— I, well, yes. And okay. As in, you know, I cannot take sole credit by any stretch. There was a, there was a small group of us that, that, that iterated over the course of 9 months to birth the first festival. And you know, that's an, that's another thing I've, I, I recognize. And part of the impetus for the book was when you have, you know, a small group of committed individuals and then you combine that, it's, you know, I use the analogy in the book, for example, of, of say the Beatles, which is a band obviously pretty much everyone knows. Yeah, it's like, okay, you have John, Paul, Ringo— they're all incredible musicians in and of themselves. Yeah, but together there's something more. Yeah, there's something more. The Beatles is born. The music that has touched all of our lives is born. And, and that was the case with Global Citizen, right? Like, that was one of the use cases where I realized, okay, when you get individuals all with sort of exceptional ideas, but, but, but somehow they're dedicated to the more of what can be born. And that's why, you know, to be frank, you know, that's why the Beyonces, the Jay-Zs, the Coldplays said yes, because we were in devotion to something bigger than ourselves.

Yeah.

But, but it was an— it is an incredible testament to the potentiality of resonance and what happens when people come together. I mean, the— I think the magic of the festival is we didn't ask people to buy tickets. You had to earn your ticket. And so people took action and they developed rapport, and then they, they came to the festival knowing that they had, they had acted together.

Talk about what they had to do to earn it. 'Cause I mean, it was, yeah, it was, I loved that you were like, hey, you actually have to do some stuff to give back and make a difference. Yes. And once you do the things, then you can get, you can qualify to get a ticket. Like, I loved it versus just like, give us $40, you know?

Totally. Yeah. So, so in essence, so the, the great disruption I think of Global Citizen was we wanted to host on the Great Lawn in Central Park. Now, Great Lawn is incredible. I mean, it's this iconic place. Yeah. Very few bands have, have played there. You know, Simon Garfunkel, when I grew up, it was one of my favorite albums. And I think we're only the second Saturday since Simon and Garfunkel. And the reason being, wow, to host on the Central Park, you know, Central Park Great Lawn, you basically, you know, you have to hire the union, the police force, you know, the conservancy. You have to make sure you, you know, obviously, you know, more than 10 million people rely on this green space. You have to take care of it. Yeah. So long story short, but you can't sell tickets. So how do you, how do you have the requisite resources to host, but at the same time not sell tickets? Well, that makes it for many un, not commercially viable, but we said, well, let's philanthropically raise, you know, the base funds to make this happen, but we'll create the exponential more in the impact and we'll host it during the UN General Assembly when all the world's leaders come together. And then we'll find the world leaders that have causes that connect with some of the greatest megaphones of our time, you know, the Beyonces of the world and the empowerment of women and girls. And we'll put them together on stage. And together, the alchemy of that more will be what became the legacy of Global Citizen.

2 questions I have right now. One, I want you to define them more, cuz that's a central part of the book. Yes. But the other part, you can answer these whenever, whatever order you want. Yeah. What were you doing before? Cuz like I, before Global Citizen, right? Cuz you, you hear that, you're like, who the heck is this guy that's like, hey, let's, let's get Central Park to agree to let us put 70,000 people in it. We can't sell tickets, but let's figure out a way to fund that. Yes. And then who would we get? Like Beyoncé, Coldplay, Jay-Z, like, so Who, who was Michael Traynor? What were you doing before that when that happened?

Well, I think, let, let me actually give you, I think, a real juxtaposition. And the, and, and the reason I say this is because I think this is what might be most meaningful for someone listening. Mm-hmm. Who, who may have social anxiety or may, or a high performer, you know?

Yeah.

But, but that, that really wants to step up to the next level.

Yeah.

So context is, which I write a bit about in the book. So when I was 12, my very first experience alone abroad. And literally the last thing my parents said to me as I was getting on the airplane for this study abroad program— I went to a public school language academy in Chicago where I grew up— they said, Michael, whatever you do, don't get in any trouble over there because things work differently. And to make a long story short, I wound up, uh, there, and my host brother got accosted by an individual, and I went up to check on him and support him. And long story short, I took a right hand to the jaw. And then I didn't realize that that wasn't just one individual, it was actually 30, and that that was the gang of the town, and I couldn't even go do the study abroad. And so I got jumped at 12 years old, which, oh my God, without going into great detail, led to me developing an obsessive-compulsive personality and transcending that by going deep into my fear. So what I wound up doing is actually, you know, Western doctors said, okay, well, just take the, take Prozac, take this medication, and it'll help assuage your anxiety. Uh, but I decided, okay, I'm gonna go I'm anti-intervention, but I want to actually get rid of this. Like, I, I don't want to be afraid of people.

Yeah.

People are like my great passion. Yeah. And travel's my great passion. Yeah. So, so what can I do to get over this? And they said, well, what you can do is something called exposure therapy, right? So for example, if you're arachnophobic, maybe you get a little bit closer to a spider every day.

Yeah.

Not one for half measures. I was like, you know what, let me go as far into this fear as I can. And I grew up in Chicago. I decided to live which wound up being for 2 years of my life on the other side of the world in Sri Lanka, a country at the time amidst civil war. And there I studied with a traditional healer about basically social alchemy. So in that culture, there was no word for privacy and there was no word for possession. So imagine us as individuals, or individual-centered in terms of how we grow up. If I were to say, Hal, can you pass me your book? It would be Buke kaktene puluwanda, which is, Hal, is there unto you a book you can pass? So the way that that influences your consciousness is profound. And I basically studied with what I would describe as the SEAL Team Six, okay, of like when someone falls out, when they're deeply lonely, when they're in dis-ease. What— in maybe in the West, we might— something— someone who might wind up in an insane asylum, or just we don't know how to figure this out, okay? This guy was what I would call the SEAL Team Six of social alchemy. So from sunset to sunrise, they would create this elaborate ritual where that person would be placed in the middle of a circle, and they would be made, made to be seen, heard, and appreciated in the most elaborate pageantry— flower offerings, fire dancing. The whole village would come together. He described it like the heart rhythm. He said basically health is like the heart rhythm. You know, for the first 9 months of our lives, the sound that we know is the sound of our mother's heart, right, when we're in utero. And he said that health is like that, being in tune with the rhythm of, of the heart, which is also part of the, the DNA for resonance.

Yeah.

So when someone falls far away, it's like they've forgotten how to hear the rhythm, like they've lost the drumbeat of the collective. So what the collective would do is bring them back into rhythm through their collective action. I share all that as a long way to say that DNA of ritual, of ceremony, of the traditional ways that humans since time immemorial have honored each other, have seen each other, have existed in this tribal context where we are held, where there is a social safety net, informed not only the consciousness that led to the book but also was genesis for some of the ideology behind Global Citizen, right? How do we bring people back, right? Our movement, the movement we're trying to make effect around was this ending of extreme poverty. How do we bring the 1.3 billion people who are in many ways forgotten, you know, who live on $1.25 or its equivalency around the world, how do we move beyond the guilt and shame paradigm, right? Of like the Sally Struthers, poor child, like give up your cup of coffee. Maybe you'll do that, but you're not, that's not inspiring you to the shared humanity of seeing these people as your brothers and sisters. So the idea with the, with the Global Citizen was let's, let's, let's, let's build a movement around our shared humanity. Let's bring these people back into rhythm, you know? And so I share all that to say who I was was very, very different from the man I became that was able to hold the vision for something that was much more. But what I outline in the, what kind of in the book is the process I took to get there. Mm-hmm. And the replicable steps, which I, I talk about 7 7 principles of first, which was integral for my own healing, tuning my, what I call tuning your own instrument. So like finding the things that bring you back into center, which I think is, is so integral in today's world, today's world, especially because we're now besieged by more noise than ever before, right? Algorithms that are literally engineered to know your psychographic. Yeah. And to pull you into an attention wormhole, um, that may or may not be commensurate with your own best interest, right? Oftentimes not. Sure. So, so what I did was I went on a deep inward journey to tune the instrument that is me. Mm-hmm. And from that place to listen for my band, right? Which is what I found in Global Citizen, the people with whom I could make music that achieved the more. And I think that's why I love the, the, the metaphor of music because like when you're a global citizen and you're literally in sync. With 70,000 people listening to this person clearly in their song, you know, like there's no denying the authenticity of her song.

Yeah.

You feel resonance. So we all know it. It's, it's, it's integral to who we are, but it's, it's also easier than ever in modern day society to fall out of balance, to fall away from it, to lose the rhythm of resonance. So the whole intention with the book and, and, and my continued journey as well, right? Is to know basically what brings me into tune, and from that place to find the others that bring me most to life and that bring my song most to life. Because in that place, just like a great band, our music lives. And so, you know, it's my great belief that each of us, just like, uh, you know, our fingertips, have unique notes that want to live inside of us. And You know, I talk in the book about Bonnie Ware, this incredible palliative care nurse who, who shepherded many people on their deathbeds. And she found that the number one regret of the dying is that they never took a shot at living life on their own terms. Mm. They lived their entire life based on what they thought society expected of them.

Yeah.

And so my hope and my intention with the book is that it, it's, it's a bit of a guidepost, if you will, like a, a lighthouse. I'm mixing my metaphors now, but a, a, a lighthouse for those sailing through uncertain waters to help find their way on their way home.

Yeah. About two of my favorite products. I've been taking these for 4 years and they are now a sponsor of the podcast. Cured Nutrition Flow Gummies. I start every day with two of these. I meditate for 30 minutes without any supplements. And then I take Flow gummies 7 days a week, almost every day. And then I go to bed with night oil, 30 minutes before bed. I take night oil and it helps me fall asleep and stay asleep. So I start my day with Flow gummies. I end my day with night oil. If you want to implement my routine into your day with Cured Nutrition, go to curednutrition.com/hal. Again, that's curednutrition.com/hal. And use the discount code HAL at checkout for 20% off your entire order. Flow gummies to start the day, night oil to fall asleep. You'll feel better, you'll act better, you'll perform better. Check it out. Yeah, it makes me even think as an entrepreneur, as I'm reading it and I, and this, I immediately called our CEO. I'm like, dude, you gotta get this book. I'm like, wait, it's not available. You, you can pre-order it. So I pre-ordered him a copy, but it's so good. And I'm like trying to explain it. I'm doing like a kind of a terrible job. And, and, and, but he'd be, you know, basically I'm like, dude, it's, you know, relationships and then how the quality of our relationships, the quality of our lives. And he's like, dismissive. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, that's like, you know, Tony, I get it. Tony Robbins, you know, stuff teaches that. I go, no, no, no, but it's not like this. Like, and it's funny. And I go, actually, yeah, the opening quote is from Tony Robbins. The quality of your life is the quality of your relationships, right? But here's my point. As I'm imagining the future of the Miracle Morning and even beyond the Miracle Morning, the Miracle Life is kind of the next iteration potentially. And I'm reading this. I'm, it's reminding me and not just reminding you, but, but like giving me heightened awareness and clarity on how important community is gonna be in whatever we launch next. And if you're an entrepreneur, like this is a must read. If you're married, this is a must read. If you are a parent, this is a must read. If you have relationship, like, you know what I mean? There's so many. So, but in business, that's how I'm, that's the filter I'm seeing through.

Sure.

And then the, what was the other thing I was gonna say on that? Well, define the more, 'cause I, we, I, we didn't get to that. Yeah, please.

Okay. So first of all, let me just attend to the fact that what you, I'm gonna get to the more.

Okay.

And, but I'm gonna do it first by addressing what you just said, which is incredible and incredible feedback from you in particular. And by the way, it is actually a business book. So like it, what, what's interesting is But, but our lives, just like, you know, like you could look at holistic medicine versus Western medicine, right? We, we compartmentalize aspects of our life. Sure. But as it relates to relationships, yes, there are relationships that exist in certain areas, right? Your, your CEO is different obviously from your relationship with your wife. And so that's why if you look at the COVID it's kind of like it, it ripples out like a sound wave or like the ripple of, uh, you know, of, of of a pebble that touches the water. And the idea is, you know, there's Dunbar's principle, which is that tribal relationships really were confined to upwards of 150 true relationships. Now, obviously, with social media, we have much more in our relational field. So the idea is, which I talk about, is really relational intelligence. So how do we become relationally attuned? And the idea of the more, to answer your question specifically, is it's my belief— I'll speak about it musically, but first I'm going to actually give a grounded take. So Steven Pressfield is one of my great mentors, right on the front of the book.

Outstanding.

I wouldn't change a word, which was— which I honestly just like— he's honestly probably my favorite living author on the planet. So, and he actually on principle doesn't read other people's work, but I went out for breakfast with him and I was like, look, because he's a Marine, I was like, shoot me straight, read the introduction, and if it's shit, tell me. Pardon my language.

Yeah, yeah, that's all right.

And, and he, and he, and he agreed to read the introduction. And long story short, he, yeah, he, he said outstanding. I wouldn't change a word, which meant the world to me. But he talks about this concept, which was, you know, deeply meaningful for me in The War of Art about the muse and resistance, right? And that is as a business person, as a creative person, as anyone in the world who is seeking to, to make something, right? There is what he calls a muse, right? The, there is a, you You know, the goddess, a create, the creative force.

Yeah.

And we are vessels in our, in our best way for that creative force.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So we're, we're trying to get of our, out of our own way to allow that creativity to move through. Yeah. Elizabeth Gilbert talks about this in Big Magic as well. For me, the more is, is, is somewhat aligned, right? The more is this idea of there is a music, an authentic song that exists when within all of us. Mm-hmm. You know, the tragic part is I think many of us, as Bonnie Ware found, get to the end of our lives and we never took a shot at singing it.

Yeah.

And I know for myself, you know, one of the messages I unfortunately got when I was a kid was, Michael, you're great at many things, but singing isn't one of 'em. You know? And the irony is I think my voice is, is part of my, my gift. Uh, but for many, many years I suppressed it. It, as I'm sure many listening have with their own gifts. Sure. And so The More is about depersonalizing, cuz I think part of what holds us back, whether it be as, you know, business leaders, whether it be as, you know, mothers and fathers or friends, is we have this codified, what Steven Pressfield calls resistance, right? All the things that are the, like the little piccadillos in our mind that, that, that are our insecurities or our, our social projections that keep us from going after the things that we most yearn for, that, that feel most authentic and true to us. You know?

Yeah.

What I call your authentic note. And so the more is, it depersonalizes because it's, it's, it's beyond your individual concern. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're a religious person, you might call it, you know, the song of God. If you are, if you are a creative person, it might be the creative genius, the muse. The more is what I call the exponential, right? It's, it's, it's where, just as in the physics of resonance, right? If you have a bridge and you actually have soldiers walking across that bridge and they're in absolute lockstep, they can, they can collapse a concrete bridge. So this is actually a law of physics. Wow. That to me is an example of the more. What happens when the seemingly impossible is made possible? And we've all experienced that. Through the synchronicity, through the attunement, through the connection that is beyond what was previously perceived. You know, I talk in the book about, you know, various, you know, classical music compositions. You know, one of the things I'm deeply moved by is the symphony. The symphony is an incredible example of the more. It's also an incredible example of relationship, right? Because here you have a conductor and, and you know, 40, 50 genius individual musicians, but they're somehow in the listening for the music that wants to live and attuned to the more of the collective, right? If you had one out-of-tune violin in a symphony, it would kill the whole thing. So the question is, how do we both tune ourselves and then from that place start to tune what I call our band, right? So maybe those are our closest relationships, whether that be in business with your CEO, whether that be in family with your wife and children. And slowly, just like the sound wave or the ripple, how do we then have that expand out to the different areas of our life? You know, Stephen Covey, talk about a classic business book, talks about our circle of influence and our circle of concern. You know, one of the things that I do to keep my instrument in tune is anytime I recognize I'm focusing all my energy on my circle of concern, or in other words, an area of life I exhibit no influence, right? But is, but is still taking my energy, right? Which is easier than ever in this day and age.

Everybody.

Yeah.

That's the biggest thing I realized in 2020 is everyone's focused on things that are out of our control and then they feel out of control.

That's right. That's right. You know, I had to stop, for example, I used to read the Wall Street Journal every morning, which I love. 'Cause I love, I love knowing what's going on in the world. I love business. But I was like, you know what? At the moment, what I'm realizing is, is a whole first hour, talk about a Miracle Morning. I've ruined my Miracle Morning. Nah, because I did my, I did my, you know, I did my meditation, I did my prayer, I did my, you know, my breath work. I've done, you know, but then I go into the challenges of the world. And it's not to say, by the way, I'm now naive to it. I still stay attuned, but I'm not— I, I realized I, I literally would get depressed afterwards, and I was focusing on things where I exerted no influence whatsoever. So I doubled down on my areas of influence. You know, an example might be, you know, reconnecting with you. You know, we chatted, you were on my show years ago, and it's like, okay, Reach out to Hal, someone who, who, who I know and respect like that. And now this conversation's happening, right? That's an area where it's like, okay, that's a, that's something in my area sphere of influence. Right? So I share that to say, and now the more of this is the depth of our potential friendship is the people who are listening that may be moved to launch that creative project that they've been sitting on for years. Yeah. Uh, it, it, it, it's. It's the conversation I don't, didn't even know that's gonna happen, that results from our conversation and, and leads to a world of possibility beyond my previous reckoning. You know, the down the trail things that, that happen. So the more is, is the, the concept of, in the context of, let's use romantic relationship, right? There's a traditional notion that's been, that's been kind of popularized by Hollywood movies where it's like, I gotta find the other half that completes me. Sure. You know? Whereas the more is, I'm a whole and complete individual. Yeah, this is a whole and complete individual. But instead of 1 1 2, 1 1 infinity. Yeah, or infinity, or whatever that is, right? Something where it's like, you know, I— and that, and that's what you want, right? Like, there are many people you could probably partner with that would be perfectly adequate as a partner, right? But that's not what we What we want is a person where it's like, I can't even imagine what my life was like before you, you know, like you have invited me into a world of possibility. You evoked— yesterday I was on, on a walk and I ran into a woman I had literally met in the park a month and a half ago. She gave me a hello and it led to this beautiful micro experience of the more because I started sharing stories that have been dormant in me for years.

Yeah.

That evoked her. And it, it led to like this moment of possibility where it was just like, oh, let's definitely get together again. Right? It's like, that's a micro example, but in the context of partnership, oh, I wanna create a family with you. You know, the, these are all examples of the more that wants to live. Mm-hmm. When we find the, the alchemy of the people, our band. Yeah. With whom we're meant to make beautiful music.

It reminds me of the, when two or more are gathered, right? It's like the, the exponential. And I, I think when I get with Jeremy, my, you know, the chief, he's actually the chief growth officer for Miracle Morning. When we're in isolation and we're working on our own stuff, we're both like hitting our head against the wall. We're like, right? And then we get on a call and it's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, we got it.

Right? Exactly. Exactly.

That would be like the more in a very practical business sense when you have more than one person sharing their unique perspectives and, and, and wisdom and love and energy and all of that.

You just, okay, you just, you hit on it. And, and what's interesting is there's also, so people can actually be instruments for the more, places can be instruments for the more.

Yeah. You go to the nature.

So a global citizen, nature for me. Yeah. So like also what are the key things that keep you in tune? Because oftentimes those are secrets or hints into the kinds of relational experiences that will lead to your best relationships.

Mm-hmm.

So for me, nature, when I'm outta tune, When the noise of the world gets too much, I go into nature. It brings me back into center, brings me back into tune. With Global Citizen, you know, we were in the early days, we were almost out of money. We had just run something at the time. We're called Global Poverty Project. We were, you know, I was having to let some of my team members go. We were really kind of like struggling directionally and we went on a retreat to my chairman's house at the time and into nature.

Yeah.

And we did a weekend, you know, like a weekend away. And the business ideas that came from those 4 days connecting, like you just shared with your CEO, you know, we're riding ATVs, we're doing, you know, we're, we're having, you know, thought, thought sessions that are leading to these exponential ideas. Those things, it's like the exponential more is the, the container, right? And also the people in that container and how they compound each other's influence. Mm-hmm. And. I talk in The Battery about a distinction which other people have probably heard about, but of batteries and black holes, right? And I like batteries and black holes better than the notion of, for example, givers and takers. Okay. Relationally. Hmm. Because it goes to what I call the attunement of like a different form of intelligence. So, you know, I'm very cerebrally dominant, but I realize actually a lot of my deeper intelligence, intelligence is in my gut.

Mm-hmm.

And, and honestly, which I've realized through research now, also heart. Yeah. Like there's way more signal going going from the heart to the brain and vice versa.

Yeah.

So what I use this distinction because someone, for example, let's, let's break down give or taker, battery black holes, and then I'll bring this home. So someone who you might have a friend, for example, who's just, you know, maybe they're, they're, you know, they're, they're not financially abundant. You know, you pick up the tab more often than not. You, you would say, oh, well maybe that's a taker, but actually they're the first person to show up when you need to move. You know, God forbid you're in the hospital, they'd be there with flowers.

Hours.

Yeah, you know, they've got your back no matter what. To me, that's a battery. Like, that's a battery in my life. Those are the people I want to double down on. Yeah. Whereas another person, maybe they're the person who always wants to pick up the check, right? They're, they're a giver.

Yeah.

But they do it from a place of manipulation. Totally. They want you to— exactly. They want you to owe them, and then subtly they're going to pull on those strings when it's most in their benefit. That to me is a black hole.

Yeah.

So to me, I have a—

I have a black hole in my mind right now. Go ahead. I won't, I won't say their name. Okay.

Well, we all do, right? And I think that, that part of the process, which I talk about in the book, is how we actually double down on the batteries in our lives.

Mm-hmm.

The places that are batteries, right? Which is what we were talking about earlier. The people that are batteries, because that actually accentuates that, that, that exponential more to be, to be sort of optimized. But, but it, but in essence, you know, some people, no matter what, just kind of, we, it, it's based on how we feel when we're with them. Right. Yeah. And how we feel after we've left their presence.

Yeah.

And that in internal thermostat is unfortunately all too often ignored because we like on paper, cerebrally, what we think they bring to the table.

Yep.

But the deeper attunement, the deeper peace, the resonant intelligence is how does someone make me feel?

Totally.

When I'm in their presence. Because what science is showing is that we are actually literally regulating each other's nervous systems.

Yeah.

So we, we become, you know, we've all heard the saying, you're the sum of the 5 people who spend the most time. Most time.

Totally.

But that's true not only psychologically, that's true physiologically and now biologically. Wow. So it's integral. Like our greatest investments are the people we're spending the most time with and it is literally modifying you as a human.

Yeah.

So it's, it's super important to, to be attuned to relational intelligence. Yeah.

Um, I think about, uh, you know Kyle Ceases?

Yeah, of course.

Oh, you do? Okay. So Kyle and I, um, you know, we've known of each other online for like 10 years and then I was it was just wild. We recently connected a few months ago and within a couple days we realized, wait, we live next to each other. And then we're like, let's go get a smoothie at SunLife Organics. And we, and like, I've never experienced resonance with another human being as fast and profoundly. In fact, this is really funny. We, we like, he had to go do a podcast. He's like, he had to leave at 10:30 or whatever to do a podcast. And he's like, oh, you know, it's, it's 10:30. I want to keep talking, but I gotta go. And he's like, do you want to call each other in the car on our drive home?

And I love that.

I go, yes, yes, I do. Yes.

I love that.

Like we were resonating so much and it felt so good and it was lifting us up and it was healing our immune system and it was right. Like at a level that is just, and I had never experienced. And we call each other, it's like, you know, we didn't want to get off the phone and then we're texting each other and now we're, we've become like fast close friends.

That's it.

That's it. Yeah, that's it. And I feel better. I feel happier. I feel, you know, and so it's like, how do I have more Kyle Seas in my life? And more importantly, because you can't always control light. That's true. How do you be the— well, Kyle, see, Kyle, I hope you're watching this. How do you be the Kyle Seas, right? How do you be a lighthouse, a source of love and energy and acceptance and and receptivity and understanding and empathy and, right? Like that's all we can do is change or evolve who we are. What part does that play in? Obviously it's central, but what part does that play in maybe based on what the book is, but in terms of how we show up in our relationships and how we can make the difference?

Beautifully said. It's the central premise, right? The whole first half of the book is actually how we tune ourselves because, you know, and probably several of your listeners have heard this before, before, but, you know, I remember, um, actually had a beautiful conversation with Matthew Hussey, you know, relationship expert. And I was telling the story where I was on the rooftop with a man who was very clearly glowing, you know, like the, the same vibe you had with Kyle in that moment you're having. But he was talking about his partner, his wife. And I was like, wow, okay, this guy's on to something.

Wow.

And he's like, oh yeah, tell me about, you know, your partner, uh, who I'm still trying to call in. And, and I said, oh yeah, I've got this whole list, you I've read up some of the qualities. And he's like, yeah, I don't know about all that, but well, my partner, when she walks in the room, she lights up the room. And we go to bed at night, we go to bed laughing. And I was like, I was like, man, okay, scrap the list.

Yeah, you gotta—

that's what I want. That's what I want. But, but also the other piece is, you know, another dear friend, uh, my friend Alyssa said, you know, you, you have a whole list of what you want to attract. Okay, great. Now first step, go off and be all those things, right?

Yeah.

And And so the, the, the first aspect I think is we can't— maybe we can actually attract, but we can't hold relationally the space for the relationships we most want in our lives without first building that inner capacity. I love it. Right?

So you're saying the Miracle Morning is the first part of this and you become the person and I just got— no, no.

I would say 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I actually think not to toot your horn, but to toot your horn, I actually think that's one of the most, you, you actually spoke to the more of the morning, right? Like the more of something that was far too often underthought about and utilized, right? In a way that built up, which is, is the dream I think all of us would have, you know, I'll, I'll be, I will be excited beyond measure if I attract the kind of community that you've generated for the Miracle Morning into resonance, because that's, that's where it comes to life, right? Where people start making it their own and talking about their practices, and then someone else around the world is like, oh, I, I listened to what you said and then I did this thing, you know? And it's like, and it's the more of it starts to grow around the world. And I've experienced with Global Citizen the birth of a movement, but you've also gestated movement. And so I will be honored— like, you actually— and I'm, I'm not— I don't know, I wasn't gonna say this out loud— your Miracle Morning is very much the model for what I hope to scratch the surface of. Because it's the— because I think it's— the book is a symbol for the broader-based, more of the movement that people have made their own, right? Like, we talk in— when Global Citizen Days, I would talk about how do we grow advocates that then turn into ambassadors. Yeah. And it's— and, and they're own cells, you know, they're all— they're, they're their own cells that then go off and make it their own, you know. It's like— and so to me, that is, that is what you want. You, you want to be— and to bring it back to relationships, you know, I talk about— so to— you talk— what you're talking about is the experience we have of each other. And like, what is the experience of you? What is— how do people people experience you, you know, because ultimately relationships are all about experiences. You know, I talk in the— at the end of the book about the relational bucket list. My dad, when— who's the love of my life to date, you know, I'll be lucky if I find another love in this life that approximates the love I have for my father. Wow. He passed away, uh, in 2020, but But, and, and, but when he was diagnosed with dementia, he had been fighting cancer. Uh, I brought him to the first Global Citizen Festival. Soon thereafter, he was diagnosed with dementia. And I said, dad, I'll take you anywhere in the world you want to go. And he was way too humble to ask for anything, so I just had to surprise him. And I said, stamp your passport. And I knew he loved nature and I knew he loved history. Okay. So I flew him to South Africa and spent the 10 best days of my life, you know, driving him from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean, riding rescued elephants under the African skies, you know what I mean? Like, we had the best.

Wow.

We went to Nelson Mandela's, you know, went to Robben Island, you know. I bought him— was— it was wild. So the most prized possession I have on the planet is Long Walk to Freedom, Nelson Mandela's book. My dad, who was a literal genius, but slowly his cognitive faculties were lost, he took this book that I gifted him for Christmas after I took him to South Africa and and he read it and reread it as a way to hold on to our connection and to this moment that we had together. And then he regifted it to me the following Christmas. Wow. And when you were showing me all the highlights from the book, it actually evoked that for me. Um, and I share that to say I've done many things in my life, but the thing that I think was most— that I'm most— one of the things I'm most proud of to date is, is the decision to actually do that trip, not just to think about it, but to do it. Yeah. And what I'm actually about to do, so it's about to be my 50th birthday, is I'm going to do 50 experiences with people I love because I was like, I was feeling all this pressure around it this day. And I was like, you know what, what if instead I just do a relational bucket list where I like, I do 50 cool things with, with people who, who I love with the intention of building that relationship. And I think one of the core ways I think about things is how can I invite someone into an experience? You know, how can I be a catalyst? For the exponential potentiality of that experience, not just for myself but for them. Like what you did with Miracle Morning in terms of people taking it and running with it on their own.

Yeah.

And so I talk— one of the things I talk about in a very concrete way is I, when I lived in Los Angeles, used to invite people to a place I volunteered at called the Wolf Connection. And what was so special about the Wolf Connection was it was one of the few places in this urban environment where you could go within 45 minutes and you're out of the chaos of the city and you could walk with wolves under the full moon.

Yeah.

So today actually is a full moon. If we were, if we were at the Wolf Connection, you and I, Hal, could be walking literally with wolves in a few hours. And I took a, a friend who was, uh, a director from Venice and, uh, she just happened to invite Moby, uh, who's one of my favorite musicians.

Yeah.

Lo and behold, Moby starts to play guitar by the fire. He, he love, you know, he's a big animal rights advocate, so he He was very evoked by the experience. So he invites me and Teo, the founder of the Wolf Connection, to his restaurant, uh, at the time called Little Pine. And there I'm seated next to co-founder of Coachella, Tony Kanal, the bassist from No Doubt. We wound up doing a sweat lodge with Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I kid you not. So all these were exponential more opportunities that came from me just being in tune and inviting one person into an experience. That then turned into literally a men's group with me and some of my favorite rockstar heroes, where we would gather, uh, you know, every month, every other month. And all that came from this experience where I was like, what's a unique experience I can invite people into? And then that became my go-to when I, when I met someone. Say I met you out, uh, and I wanted you to, you know, I potentially wanted to connect with you, but I, I didn't know the best way to do it. I talk about in the book, it's always have a go-to experience. So I wound up, now I host dinners every month or every other month. Nice. So if I meet someone, I'm like, hey, by the way, I'm hosting a dinner if you're interested. Love to invite you.

Yeah.

And it's one of the most pragmatic tools because the other thing is, you know, for example, uh, Rosario Dawson, Woody Harrelson, I'm just mentioning this 'cause these are people I would feel very awkward being like, hey, love to connect again. You know? Yeah. Like, how am I gonna do, you know? Whereas in both those instances I was just like, oh, you know, if you want to take your, your daughter to the Wolf Connection, I'd love to connect you. Bang, take my number. You know, like, so they're offering you their connection and you're offering them value, right? Like, I'm not necessarily going with them, I'm just connecting them. But like, part of the principle of the book is how can we, how can we lead by being an offering?

Yeah.

I, I call it sort of networking 3.0, cuz I think the, the traditional context of networking is antiquated, right? It's like, what, who are you? What can I, you know, I've been at the New, plenty of New York name tag events.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, who are you?

What can I get?

What can I get from you?

Action.

Yeah, exactly. And if not, how fast can I get to the bar or find someone more important? Quote unquote.

Oh yeah.

And it's like, that's so backwards.

All self-centered.

All self-centered. So the whole idea with resonance is how do we lead with being an offering? Mm-hmm. And not love that and not having any, not having any attachment to that person giving anything in return.

Yeah. Even in email, like you talked about, when you email someone, you set it up to where they don't have to email you back. Correct. So it says you're just adding value. Being an offering.

That's right.

And there's no pressure on, and then there's no pressure on you to even go, wait, why didn't they respond to me? And it's just literally, I'm just giving. And it's, to me, it's a way of being. It's in, and I'm sorry, I gotta cut you off.

No, at all.

In 2004, I read a book back then called Love is the Killer App by Tim Sanders.

Okay.

You familiar?

No, I haven't read it.

So he was the COO of Yahoo, I think, back in the day. And it was all about how the premise I got from it it was adding value.

Yes.

And I defined my purpose in life in writing for the first time ever in 2004, to selflessly add value to the lives of every person I come in contact with. And I began reading that every day during my mir— like living in alignment with that. Actually, it was pre-Miracle Morning, but I was, I was reading it every day and I was like really living in alignment and every interaction. It was like, I'm, I'm literally just, I'm not saying it, but I'm just thinking, okay, how can I add value for this? I'm just, that's the question that dominates my mind. Yes. And whether it's friend family, my fiancée at the time, my wife now, right? And in business especially, and I'm just selflessly adding value and it turned into so many opportunities. I remember, so I led like a group in my company for free every week for the 52 weeks to like support them every week on a call. And then next year, my first book I wrote and I reached out to the— and I was all nervous. I'm like, oh, I don't want to bother anybody. And I reach out to one of the higher-ups at Cutco, the company that I was with that I had led this group for. I go, hey, John, I don't want to bug you, but I know the event's coming up. Is there any way I could come there and have my book available or something? And he goes, Hal, are you kidding? I go, oh, I'm so sorry. He goes, no, no, no, we'll buy your book for every person there. And he said something to the effect of, Hal, you've given more this last year to our company than anybody ever. Whatever you need, man.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, you know, and it's like you selflessly add value. So I wasn't doing it to get something, but I think I call this being selfishly selfless.

Yes. Or flip it, right?

But where it's like, meaning it's like, you know, that if you're a person who genuinely isn't doing anything to get something out of it, but you're always that person that's always serving and giving without out, right? You've got to protect your boundaries. But then you're someone that when someone's like, I'll do anything for that person that, you know, Michael is always giving. He's always like, if I need something, I can count on Michael. So if he needs something, 100%. That's right. So back to you, like being an offering. I just, I saw when you, when you, when I read that, I'm like, dude, this so resonates deeply. Because when I adopted what you're talking about, it transformed my life. Friend as a business person.

100%. I actually— where you're talking was, it reminded me of Lewis Howes, a mutual friend of ours. And I actually remember seeing a picture, I think, I believe, forgive me if I'm off, but when you were in the hospital.

Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, and he came to visit you. And I was like, those are the batteries, those are the people you want in your life.

They—

because they show up when it's not sexy for them, right? Like, I realized for a great period of my life I had a lot of friends, but they— what I would call party friends. They were there for me when then they wanted tickets to the festival, or like, you know, we were at a great party. But if, God forbid, I was in the hospital, or, you know, I had a challenge I was going through, they would definitely not be there. Sure. You know, and so the, you know, I think what you're sharing is so powerful because it, it's, it's the essence of it, right? Like, how can we be batteries just as a stand? Yeah. You know, as a stand. I love that you actually made this your declaration. Yeah. Because what it does is it creates creates a home for the more to live in. You know, it's like that notion of providence, right? They say, you know, once you step into the arena, like the universe, the world will step up. Conspire to help you. Conspire to help you. Once you declare that I am in service, right? If you think about whether it be the sun, the water, you know, again, I have a deep affinity for nature, right? The sun gives.

Yeah.

Every day.

Yeah.

Without any expectation of anything in return.

Yeah.

Water the same. They are the life-giving principles. And yet many of us are taught to go through life kind of sussing out, okay, if I do this, can they get, you know, it's like, it's almost manipulative context of like living. And it's like, no. And to your point, exactly right. So like now, for example, I mean, you've written books that I deeply admire. This is my first book, you know, but it's when you're birthing a book, like I actually, the irony is when I started this book, I couldn't wait for this moment. Like I was like, cuz I love this. I love sharing, talking. But now I just can't wait to go back in the cave and write another one.

Write another one.

Yeah, exactly. Uh, but, but which is to say like it, there is this awkward moment, right? Like for example, I, I can't remember exactly how it went, but like I hadn't, I hadn't personally talked to you for, you know, a couple of years and you'd been on my show, but it's like I'm reaching out, hey, you know, also zero pressure, no expectation. But if this aligns and if he's of interest, yeah, I'd love to share, you know? But doing that is a very vulnerable act, right?

Totally.

So whoever's listening, watching, right? Like we all have instances where we care deeply about something. We know someone else that we deeply admire could have an influence in introducing that to others who might have, you know, resonance with it. But I mean, there's still, like, there's plenty of people on my phone still where it's like, I, they're even deep friends of mine, but I'm, but I'm hesitant because in my mind I'm in resistance, right?

Yeah.

What Steven Pressfield calls.

Yeah.

Whereas has what happens when you release any expectation and you totally frame it as a gift.

Yeah.

Right. It's like, hey, I'd love to add value, this, this, and this. And by the way, if it's not of value, no ex, no need to reply.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Is you relieve all pressure from that relationship and then, you know, maybe they think of someone else or maybe 3 years down the road it's more of, it's a, it's a better time. Yeah. But, but what I think, you know, I think the gift of that is another pragmatic piece that I talk about in the book is, you know, like, I will— I remember I did a podcast once, and afterwards— and I'm totally down for introductions, I'm all for spreading the love.

Yeah.

But they were like, hey, can you introduce me to the Dalai Lama? Like, literally, I was like— I was like, wow. Like, it was like— yeah, I was like, wow. And so what I said was— because also I didn't want to burn that relationship, but I was like, yeah, there's complexities.

Yeah, yeah.

Was I was like, look, I practice— which I highly recommend everyone— I practice double opt-in introductions.

Yep.

You know, I was like, look, share exactly what value you think you could add. Yeah. I will share it with them.

Yeah.

And then, and I, again, gracefully and hopefully they opt in, then I can introduce both of you.

Yeah.

In that way, everyone, the more of that, of that moment is in everyone's hands. Yeah. And everyone's opted into it. The challenge of like a cold random introduction is if someone didn't want that in the first place, now you as the introducer are in an awkward place. They're in an awkward place, and the person waiting on a reply is in an awkward place. So it's always thinking about like, okay, how relationally, as artists, as musicians, you know, like Miles Davis has this beautiful statement which I love and I quote in the book, sometimes credited previously to Claude Debussy, is music is what lives in the space between the notes. Music is what lives in the space between the notes. And I think when we're relationally attuned We're like a great jazz musician. You know, jazz isn't 3 people all trying to jump in and solo right at once to show how cool they can play music, right? Good jazz is listening for the space between the notes. Like what, what wants to live here? And that might actually not be what you initially had in mind as like the, the, the, the first thing, you know, it might be something that emerges after you listen, after you offer to add value, after you give someone the space to play their song, to solo. And then, wow, all of a sudden they just handballed it back to you and you're eloquently bringing your notes to the table. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're Charlie Parker and you're just like, you know, it's a jam. Yeah. But I think that's the piece. And, and, and that's why with resonance, it's really about thinking musically about what wants to live here and how can I be an instrument for that song. Mm-hmm. You know, like that when people ask, what is, how would you describe resonance? When I describe it in its succinct form, I said resonance to me is about the music that wants to live. Mm-hmm. The music that wants to live through us and the music that wants to live in the space between us. And how can we become instruments for that song?

If somebody's not musically inclined, yes. Um, gimme another analogy.

Okay, great.

And by the way, I'm not musically inclined. And so I will say, as I started reading it, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna resonate with it. And yeah, but it's so good that I couldn't not. I'm like, no, I I love this challenge.

So the way I would describe it for someone who's not musically inclined is I'm going to use a garden because I love nature. I'll use, I'm going to go with gardening, right? So resonance. Someone asked me the other day in another podcast, they were like, how do you build a movement? Or whether that movement is something like Global Citizen or like it's your business or it's, you know, basically the flourishing of your life in some particular form. right? I think many of us envision the, like, to use the nature metaphor, it's like, okay, how do I become this huge oak tree? You know, how am I like, you know, my leaves and my branch? How am I just like, everything in the world is, is creating this whole ecosystem, right? It's like, okay, first, first principle, right? We've gotta, we've gotta first find the right soil, right? Like many people plant themselves in the wrong place. Mm-hmm. You know, speak very tran— like in a very concrete form, right? Like if you, if you professionally, if you are an actor and you're living in Topeka, Kansas, you know, yeah, you're not in the right garden.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? You gotta move to New York or LA. That's actually on a physical basis, probably the most important thing. How do you put yourself in a place where you're in a, you can create escape velocity, you can basically bump into people in your industry. So Pressfield talks about that as well, right? So what garden are you planting yourself in? Right. Then on the tuning your own instrument, the metaphor I would use is how are you tending to that soil? So if that— once you've decided on your garden, how do you tend to that soil? There's, there's a, a beautiful saying that was said to me by a guy named Martin Prechtel, and it was, it was during a very difficult time in my life. And he said to me— I love horses— and he said, pain is the horse that beauty rides. Pain is the horse that beauty rides. And he said, if you take the challenges in your life and you actually work with them instead of just like letting them cover you over with crap, okay, that becomes the compost. That becomes the compost for a whole new world of growth and opportunity. And so what we haven't really talked about here, but, but is deep in the book, is this notion of dissonance, right? Because the opposite of resonance is dissonance. And all of us also have challenges in our life. All of us I think this is overused word, but traumas, right? So how do we move through dissonance? How do we move through the traumas? How do we move through the, the crap that comes to us in life, which, which also can be the gift of our lives if we choose to see it that way, and have that be the fertile soil from which that oak tree can grow? And part of, so part of that is the friends, the relationships that we're talking about. About are the things that grow alongside that oak tree, right? In gardening, they call it a permaculture garden, right? Corns, beans, and squash. The waste from one thing is the fuel for the other. Sure. And so, so basically what we're talking about, to use a different metaphor, is how do you both plant the seed? How do you plant it in the right place? How do you take the challenges in life and turn that into the compost that nourishes the soil that enables you to grow exponentially, right? For example, we started Global Citizen, we started in Los Angeles. It was not the right garden for us. Got it. We moved to New York City, and in 9 months we went from an idea with almost no money to hosting a festival on the Great Lawn in Central Park and raising $1.3 billion with, you know, Black Keys, Foo Fighters, Neil Young, you know, K-9, Band of Horses. So partly it's all— so it's, it's knowing what is the right ecosystem. And then, but that was enabled, that was empowered because we brought the right relationships in, and we brought the right relationships in because we told a story that other people, like the oak tree, could be sheltered by, they could be inspired by, they could resonate with. Right.

It's one thing. Yeah. I was listening, I think it was actually one of your podcast episodes this morning about how important it is to have a big vision.

Yes.

Because that is what people are attracted. And I think about like me, my Miracle Morning, when it launched, it was change 1 million lives one morning at a time. And people were like, yes, this thing changed my life. I want to be part of that. And then once we reached a million people, we're like, we gotta evolve the vision, right? Um, and then we really did a lot of deep dive, like I did a lot of soul searching. What is this doing for people at the deepest level? And I was like, it's elevating their consciousness. They're becoming more aware and intentional about how their thoughts, words, and actions are impacting their life and those around them. This is elevating the consciousness of humanity one morning at a time. And that, that has become the, the vision, the mission, right? Um, I, I want to, I want to get tactical and practical in terms of some of the strategies you teach in the book. Please. Um, and since we're talking about Miracle Morning, you talk about the Morning 3.

Yes.

And you actually talk about this as you're like, hey, add this onto your morning routine. So, most of our listeners are Miracle Morning practitioners.

Yes.

So, this is like a perfect like, okay, so fit this in or add this on to the back of the Miracle Morning. And this is how you actually implement what you're talking about in the book. So, talk about the Morning 3.

Beautiful, beautiful. I'm so glad you brought this up because it's actually perfect to this idea of sowing seeds, right? Yeah. So one of my morning practices for my own Miracle Morning is I will take, and this by the way can literally take 1 to 2 minutes.

Yeah.

It can be a 5 to 10-minute practice. I will, and I like to think about, I have this thing in my mind of where can I, where's the uncrowded place?

Mm-hmm.

Right. This is actually inspired by going to a national park and realizing, okay, at Yosemite everyone goes to the valley and it's, it's great, but like Tuolumne Meadows is equally as epic and it's 2% of the people. So I think about, okay, in someone's inbox, everyone's email is crowded. It's like the valley, right? What's the Tuolumne Meadows? Like where, where are the places that, that are less frequented? And I think about this and I talk about this in the book, right? Like if you're a public speaker, don't try to go talk to someone right after they get off stage where you're in line and there's, you know, 50 people. Yeah. Try to talk to them before they go on stage or try to get a note to their their, you know, through the reception to their hotel room, right? The equivalent of this is on a daily basis, how can I find a way? And usually for me, my go-to is a voice note or a handwritten note because right now the mailbox is actually one of the great, you know, Tualimí Meadows. People only get bills in their mailbox, but if you get a handwritten note in the physical mail, yep, it means a lot. Yeah. To me, like I'm going for my journals and the notes, like that's my most valuable.

And I like that you said voice note because, and, and really if you want to go video, but I know some more people are a little more anxiety around the video.

Video. Yeah, video works too. You know, you could, you, you can, you could actually send, this is, you know, like you could send an LCD card actually in the physical mail of a video, you know, like a pop-up card. You can get really creative.

I got one of those the other day where it would, you mean, you mean a video card?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I got one of those. I spoke and the CEO after I spoke handed, he's like, hey, you know, and I went back to my hotel room and it was, hey Hal, thanks for speaking for us. Yeah. You know, so, which was awesome. Real quick. Oh, I was gonna say Joe Polish is the king of sending video text messages.

Exactly what I just thought about. Yep.

Yeah. And, but it's It's like the, and even I like voice cuz A, it's a lot, it's easier. But what I love about it is now I can feel, I can feel the resonance. I can feel your energy and your love and your intention and your tone and what you're like, right? Versus text has none of that.

That's 100% right.

Yeah.

And, and what you just inspired. So my buddy Craig Clemens actually, so I would send him a lot of voice notes, uh, as part of my morning practice. So, so in essence, just to be very specific, so I, as my morning Miracle Morning, I send 3 notes. Unsolicited and not necessarily, of course it's nice to send on someone's birthday, but ideally when it has no, it's not related to any particular moment. And it's, there's generally the, the core of it is, uh, it's an acknowledgement. Mm-hmm. Because I think one of the best things that we can do to build authentic relationships is to authentically acknowledge someone.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So I'm just gonna riff this right now. This is not planned. Yeah. But I might say, so for those listening, if I were to voice note Hal right now, I'd be like, all right, All right. Okay, cool. So I'm gonna do 3 of these this morning. Hal, I just wanted to say, man, you know, I just had such a beautiful time talking with you the other day. It was meaningful to me because, you know, I think we spoke probably 7 years ago and I was so inspired by what you had built with Miracle Morning in terms of not just having it be about a book, but having it be about a community and having it be about people people leading their lives one day at a time into the exponential more of what is possible for them. And you have been a torchbearer for that cause and for the more that wants to live in the space between people for a decade. And it's, it's honestly my hope in my own life is that I just touch a fraction of that impact with my own book. And you— what you did and what you shared with me was so meaningful, I don't think you'll even know. And the conversation we had where you acknowledged, as one of my most respected, you know, thought leaders and authors, that you— that you acknowledge my work so beautifully, it meant the world to me. And I just want to say I'm inspired. I was watching what you were doing with your son. I'm super inspired by the partnership that you've— that you've— that you've brought in, in your family. And I just want to say I wish you nothing but love. No need to reply. Wishing you a beautiful day. Right? So just that, right? I don't know what that was called. 30 seconds, 45 seconds.

Yeah.

Is it perfect? It doesn't matter. No, it's not about perfect. It's not about scripting. I'm not, you know, I'm not writing it. It's literally like whatever's on your heart in that moment. And I do 3 of those, and I'll do that in the morning. And I tell you what, like, I have a buddy named Mark Shapiro. He started something called Love love bomb. And he was good at that. He was like the Joe Polish where he would just send me a video note. Yeah. As a love bomb, basically. And, and it's just like, he, he told me after doing that, not that that was his intention, he got invited to everybody's birthday party, everybody's, you know, office lunch.

Yeah.

And so it, it wound up gestating a fertile garden of relational opportunity. Yeah. And so I think the beauty of that is so many people now only reach when they need something. So to be in the practice of checking in on someone, and from a place of just being a gift, is one of the greatest gifts that you can, you can, you can, you can do. And the thing that's most powerful about it is if there's an aspect of an authentic acknowledgement.

And I love the removal— I try to do that. If not, no worry. Whenever I ask for anything, exactly. By the way, zero— I, I always am typing zero pressure.

Yep.

If not, no worries. I love like, you know, so that way they, they feel like, oh, there's, okay, no pressure.

That's right.

And then that actually, you know, right. And not that you're doing it to like be manipulative, but it like actually makes them wanna lean in more. Cause they're like, totally. Oh, I feel no pressure. So now I get to choose.

That's right.

If I, how I respond, when I respond, if I respond, right.

That's right.

I feel empowered. I feel no pressure. I feel, yeah, it feels good.

The irony is they're, they're actually probably doubly more likely to respond if you say no need to respond.

Yeah, totally.

Is especially with like very intimate, and I think actually Actually, I, I think that, that I read about that and then referenced it also. Tim Ferriss has a, when, when he started reaching out for, I think it was 4-Hour Workweek.

Mm-hmm.

He gives a template and, and, and that line is also integral to his outreach, right? Where it would be like, hey, no need to reply.

Yeah.

You know, that's great. And, and I think it, it just to remove that weight and make it an un, just like a, a pure gift. Yeah. Is what makes it work.

We can keep talking. Um, I'm gonna give you a chance. We're gonna wrap up here and I'm going to ask you to share anyone who is like Resonance: The Art and Science of Human Connection. This makes sense. I want to learn how to enhance my relationships and thus enhance my quality of life and live longer and all of the things that this book helps people do. What would you say to the person that's like, I've got a lot of books though. I don't know if I should get this. Like, what's your compelling vision and call to action, not just for the big picture of how the book impacts the world, but the individual listening right now? Right now?

Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, and, and maybe this is, maybe I'm a little too close to what we just said, but I would say no pressure. Right. As in, as in like, as in literally like you should feel the call. And, and, and I mean that literally.

Yeah.

That said, relationships are, I think, the aspect of our health and wellbeing that are most infrequently discussed in the current conversations.

Yes.

You know, we talk about diet, exercise, sleep. Sleep.

Yeah.

Diet, exercise, the holy trinity. Yes, but you know, the, the literally the longest longitudinal study of its kind out of Harvard, 80+ years, Robert Waldinger study found that the single greatest corollary to our long-term health and happiness, so how long we live, literally the years that we live exponentially more, and the quality with which we live those years.

Yeah.

The single greatest corollary is the quality of our long-term relationships. Wow. So if you're good on that, I would say you don't need the book. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, honestly. But if you are still yearning to build new relationships, if you have, you know, a, a, a mindset, which I do, uh, a growth mindset around relationship, around the opportunity that relationships affords, the mirror that is the growth opportunity of relationship.

Relationship.

You know, there is a tremendous amount of exercise. Like, you can just read the book or listen to the book, um, and you could also, if you chose to, like, there's like a, like a, there's, there's exercises where if you actually did all of those pieces, I, you know, I'd say this, but I would guarantee transformational value, right, in terms of, of the quality of your relationship. So as it relates to either either maintaining, moving through some of the challenging relationships in our lives. Oftentimes, you know, that can be family, that can be friends, can be people where, you know, those people are in our lives one way or the other. How do we actually move through dissonance into a place of resonance? And/or where it relates to, man, I could have, you know, I have this big vision, this big dream, but, and I, and, and I know that one of the things that, that would foster that becoming a reality is being in relationship or close to some of the people that that are, you know, incredible in this industry. And this—

Beyoncé's, the Mobys, the Woody Harrelson.

Yeah. And that was— and to be frank, like, that was kind of like— that's, I think, what the publisher initially wanted me to write about, you know, because like that's the buzzy stuff. And to be fair, you know, what it is profoundly useful, and I talk about those principles. Sure. But, but what are those equivalents in your own life, right? You know what I mean? Like, and that may have be names no one—

no one's ever heard of.

Yeah, Exactly. But, but more so like, okay, I— there are people all of us yearn to, whether it be an archetype or an actual person, to be in a beautiful relationship with. And, you know, even just, uh, just to bring it back to you, like what you were talking about with Kyle, right? Like, those were— most people unfortunately today, like, the research is scary. Many people, many, especially men, don't have someone they can call a best friend. And it's tragic, you know. And unfortunately, the quality, the tribal aspect of our culture, you know, the technology, you know, not to vilify, but it's becoming harder to build and maintain relationships in the era of AI and, you know, a tech-empowered world where people are, you know, on their phones and, you know, uh, you know, busier and more distracted than ever. So my, my goal and my hope is that this book is in some ways the antidote or the roadmap map through the challenging, you know, the challenging waters of our brave new world that we're living in.

Yeah.

Such that people can build and maintain beautiful relationships that, that are the core, honestly, to the integrity of our lives. Like, I, I honestly believe that when it comes down to it, again, not to, you know, but you know, there's resume goals and there's eulogy goals, and many of us chase resume goals our whole life and You know, the eulogy goals, you know, I'll use the book as an example, right? Keep Vulnerable and Real Talk. You know, when I sold this book, of course I was like, yeah, I want to be a New York Times bestseller. Like, that's a big resume goal.

Yeah.

Yeah. And of course I would still love for that to happen. And I also had a reckoning about a month ago where I was like, you know what, I'm not sure it's gonna, I'm not sure it's gonna hit the, the, the, I don't know that it's ha— I don't know that that's the way in which this story wants to move. I actually think this is a longer tale. The metaphor I would use is there's a wedding and there's the marriage. Yeah, I was focusing on the wedding.

That's how all authors do it, or most others.

Yeah. And I was like, you know what, let me focus on the marriage. Like, how can I actually turn this into— and you're the perfect person for this because how— because what I want to do, actually, way more than— of course, I, I'm not naive to want to sell books, But what I want to do is be like we did with Global Citizen. I want to be, I want to have this be the, the, the offering towards the more that wants to live for people. And I want people to find their own way with it and ideally take it directions I haven't even fathomed or thought about. Right. I remember, you know, seeing your community and like the way that the creative ways in which they made it their own, like that's what I want. And I want it to lead to relationship. Relationships beyond my wildest dreams. And I'll close with this because it just came to mind. I was, I was coming down from a hike at Temescal Canyon in Los Angeles, and I was by myself. And, um, one of the places I go to get back into— and this woman stops in her, you know, in her SUV, and she goes, Michael. I look over, I was like, I kind of vaguely remembered her, but I was like, oh, hey, how are you? She's like, I don't know if you remember me, 'But, uh, and then she rolls down the back windows.' Okay. 'And there's two children in the back seat.' He said, 'I don't know if you remember me, but you invited me to your Super Bowl party 8 years ago. I met my husband there. These kids are a result.' Oh wow. And I was like, 'Wow.' You know, our connection— the power of connection, you know. And like, that's it. Like, that's partly— like, not that I set out the agenda, but like in creating these events, these experiences, these offerings where other people come, even if it has nothing to do with you. Yeah. Right. Even if, especially if it has nothing to do with you, I might, I may have never even known about that. Right. Like what are the worlds of possibility that you can be a stand for?

Yeah.

And how does that gestate relationships both in your own life and in the lives of others that truly become worlds beyond your reckoning? Yeah.

Yeah. Well said, man. And this book is a beautiful blend of art and science and practical application. The 7 stages that you teach are, again, it's like, it's a roadmap. And if I were to sum this up, you know, to me, and it echoes what we've been talking about, which is this book, Resonance, I highly recommend it. Again, I'm obsessed. It's such a great book. It will help you in the, like, the simplest way. It will help you be the person that you need to be. To improve, transform, uplevel the relationships in your personal and professional life that will enrich your quality of life, enrich your quality of life and the lives of people around you. And it will help you get what you want in life because you will be resonating in such a way that people will be attracted to, want to add value for you, and so on and so forth. So this book, Resonance, uh, get a copy today where books are sold. And, uh, Michael, appreciate you so much. Brother.

Thank you, man. I so appreciate you. It's a true honor to be here, and I'm so grateful.

Thanks, buddy.

Thank you.