Your Brain Deserves Your Attention

Today I'm talking with Dr. Daniel Amen, one of the world's leading voices on brain health and author of the book Change Your Brain, Change Your Life. Dr. Amen has spent decades helping people understand that if you want to improve your thoughts, your emotions, your relationships, your behavior, your habits, your career, almost anything, you have to start with the organ that drives all of it, your brain. In today's conversation, we're talking about what her what hurts your brain and what helps your brain, free will, how it might not be what you think it is, chemo brain, ADD and ADHD, and ultimately practices that will help you to think better, feel better, and live better. Dr. Amen, it is so good to be with you.

Hal, thank you so much for helping me share this message.

Hmm, I appreciate you. As someone who has— I've read your book twice now, and as somebody who suffered brain damage and really struggled with a lot of brain issues, your work is so important to me. I want to ask you just off the bat, uh, what do people not understand about how important learning about their brain, understanding how it works, caring for it— what do people not realizing that they need to be doing?

Nobody cares about their brain.

Why?

You can't see it. You can see the wrinkles in your skin or the fat around your belly. And in 1991, when I started looking at the brain here at Amen Clinics— I have 11 clinics around the country— we do a study called brain SPECT imaging. SPECT looks at blood flow and activity, looks at how your brain works. And so I went to a lecture in 1991 on brain SPECT imaging. Literally has changed everything in my life. And so I'm 37 at the time I order my first scan, and I don't care about my own brain. I'm a double board certified psychiatrist. Uh, I was a top neuroscience student in medical school and I didn't care because I'd never seen it. And the week before I scanned my mom, she was 60 at the time, stunningly beautiful brain.

Oh well.

And it just fit her life. And then a week later I scanned myself and it wasn't healthy because I played football in high school. I had meningitis twice as a young soldier and I had bad habits. I was only getting 4 hours of sleep at night. I was overweight. I was eating bad food and I just didn't care until I saw her brain. And then I saw my brain and I was irritated. And I developed a term I call brain envy. I wanted a healthy brain like her.

And she was your mother, so much older. You would think, like common sense would think, you'd have the better brain.

Yes. And what I've learned is women tend to have healthier brains than men. And it could be the estrogen, or it could be they don't hit soccer balls with their foreheads as much.

Men do a lot of stupid things that hurt, hit their heads.

And that's why men go to jail 14 times more than females. But so brain envy. And I thought to myself, Freud was wrong. So penis envy, I've not seen it once in 45 years as a psychiatrist. The only organ where size really does matter is your brain.

It's your brain.

And everything I've done since 1991 is to get a better brain, because when you have a better brain, you have a better life, because your brain is involved in everything you do— how you think, how you feel, how you act, how you get along with other people. It's the organ of selling, it's the organ of managing your money, it's the organ of love, of discipline, and every decision you make. In my experience, after scanning now almost 300,000 brains over the last 35 years—

300,000 brains?

Yeah, that when your brain works right, you work right. And when your brain is troubled, you're much more likely to have trouble in your life.

You talk in the book about free will in a way that is— you would think everyone has free will, they can do what they want, but you actually talk about, no, your brain health affects your free will because you— if your brain is if it's hindered, you can't make the same decisions. Talk about that. Just talk about how free will is not as black and white as we would imagine it to be.

So when I first started scanning people, a lot of attorneys heard about my work and they're like, do you think you can help me with this case? And I ended up testifying in a couple of death penalty cases. And, you know, growing up, I just sort of thought free will was black or white. You had it or you didn't. And then with all the scans, it's like, oh no, free will is very gray. Some people have 80 or 90% free will. Some people, it's more like 30 or 40% free will. And if you give the 80 to 90% free will person a pack of a 6-pack of Michelob, um, you know, they get drunk, but they don't make really bad decisions. If you give the 30 or 40% person a six-pack of Michelob, they can kill other people. They can make really bad decisions. And is it the sign of an evolved society to kill sick people? It's not. And, and before then, I just had no opinion. I hadn't really thought about it, but These murderers that I saw, very damaged brains. And I'm like, I wonder if I can make them better, because that's what brings me the most joy.

Sure.

Is taking a bad brain and making it better. And so much of the time you can. Hmm.

You just told me before we started recording about— I believe his name was— is it Tarek?

Tarek El Moussa.

Yeah. Tell me, you said he had came to you and you did a SPECT scan on him. Brain had a lot of issues. And then within a year of hyperbaric oxygen and I'm sure some other supplements and stuff, you— but talk about that just as an example of someone who can change their brain.

That's very recently a star on HGTV. He has house flipping shows. Flip Off is one, or The Flipping El Mousses is another one. And he takes really awful properties. And transforms them into these amazing, beautiful homes that he flips. And when I first saw his scan, it was terrible. I mean, it's like really terrible. And he—

and when you say terrible, what is that? What are you seeing? What does that mean?

It's just like really low blood flow. So for people who have seen my scans, it looks like one of those moth-eaten scans. And when he was born, he was in the neonatal ICU for 5 weeks, which means he had birth trauma. And then he had problems in school and problems with his temper and problems with substances. And I mean, there are a lot of reasons his brain looked bad, but when I first saw it, I'm like, your brain sort of looks like the cockroach-infested moldy hoarder houses that you flip. And a year later, he did 89 hyperbaric oxygen sessions dramatic improvement. And he said his life was dramatically better. And nobody thinks about that, that you're suffering because you had a bad childhood, or you're suffering because you lost your job, or you're suffering because you lost your marriage. And very few people go, you're suffering because of the car accident or the chemotherapy or, um, you have post-COVID inflammation or you have Lyme disease. And when I started scanning— so I'm a psychiatrist by training— I'm like, oh, I have to learn all about your body because if your body's not right, your brain's not going to be right.

Hmm. The— you mentioned, well, my own experience, like with chemotherapy, and I can, I can attest to this because after 700 hours of chemotherapy over the course of 3 years, I felt like my brain broke, and my life was actually great circumstantially, but I was depressed. I had extreme anxiety. I stopped sleeping well, chronic sleep deprivation, severe, um, I, I, and I, I, I became suicidal, uh, for the first time. And I had a great family. I had— our, our income was great, like everything was fine, but my brain, I felt like it was being destroyed by evil forces. Like, that's That's what it felt like. And I immediately stopped all of the drugs that, you know, the intense chemotherapy drugs. And that's when the healing began. So I want to ask you, chemo brain in general, that term almost bothers me because the oncologist was so dismissive. Oh, that's just chemo brain. Don't, Doc, I want to kill myself. That's just chemo brain. What for any, like, cancer survivors like myself that are listening, what can they do if they've gone through chemotherapy and they want to heal their brain?

So they can get a look at it to see, is it chemo brain? And you have overall low activity because what kills cancer cells can also kill healthy cells. Healthy cells.

Yeah.

And so, um, so you can look at it and brain health for all of us is ultimately 3 things. Brain envy, gotta care about it. Avoid things that hurt it, know the lists, and do things that help it. And you just have to know the list.

Yeah, it's kind of like eating right.

And so much of the Miracle Morning is on the list of what's good for you.

All right, so our audience is already ahead of the game.

So your audience is already ahead of the game. But it all comes down to this one question. I'm working on this National Brain Health Revolution and the Decade of Brain Health, and it all centers around this one simple question: is what I'm doing now, talking to you, good for my brain or bad for it? And does it make the world better? If you can answer that one question, with whatever you're doing, with information and love— love of yourself, love of your family, love of the reason God put you on Earth— your brain's going to be better.

Yeah.

And so grabbing your phone first thing in the morning, bad for your brain because it's a dopamine destroyer.

Yeah.

Staying up night, up late scrolling, it's bad for your brain. Alcohol, It's bad for your brain. Marijuana, it's bad for your brain. Not exercising, bad for your brain. Ice cream, alcohol. No, it's all about love. Ice cream, yes, bad for your brain. Sugar is pro-inflammatory. And I published 3 studies on 33,000 people. That show as your weight goes up, the actual physical size and function of your brain goes down. Should scare the fat off anyone. When I figured that out, lost 20 pounds.

Wow.

Because I'm not sort of always been a bit chubby. I say we have fat people in my family. My dad hates when I say that. I'm like, we have fat people in our family. So I have the genes that You know, I just put on weight really quickly.

Yeah.

So I have to be very intentional because of, of the 11 major risk factors. If you're overweight, you have all 11 because the fat on your body decreases blood flow, promotes aging, increases inflammation, turns on disease-promoting genes. You're more likely to have an injury. It stores toxins. You're more likely to be depressed. Your immune system's not as healthy. Takes healthy testosterone, turns it into unhealthy cancer-promoting forms of estrogen, and it impairs your sleep. So it's like, no, healthy weight's important. And in our sort of cancel culture, people go, oh, you can't talk about it. Yeah.

Body positivity.

You know the truth. Yeah. And the truth will set you free. You wanna be at a healthy BMI. You don't wanna be skinny. Skinny's not good.

Yeah.

But you also don't want to be overweight if you want a healthy brain. And ultimately, there's another question. I like questions. Is do you love food that loves you back? That you're in a relationship with food. And we have a high school course called Brain Thrive by 25, where we teach young people to love and care for their brains.

Wow.

Decreases drug, alcohol, and tobacco use, decreases depression, improves self-esteem. And in the course, I always go, If you had a million-dollar racehorse, would you ever feed it junk food?

Yeah.

And the smart kids go, no. And I'm like, well, why? What wouldn't win your investment? It wouldn't pay off. Yeah. And I was at a fancy lunch recently and I got to sit next to Lisa Trout. So Lisa and her husband Kenny own Justify. So Justify is the last Triple Crown-winning racehorse. Oh wow. And so I was like so excited and they sold him for $75 million.

A horse?

A horse.

Wow.

I'm like, would you ever feed him junk food?

Yeah.

And she laughed. She goes, no. I said, would you ever get him drunk? And she laughed and she said, no. I said, would you ever get him stoned? And then she rolled her eyes at me.

Because you want to perform at the best. Right.

And I'm like, why? He would never live up to his potential. But isn't that what you want for yourself? Yeah. Isn't that what you want for your kids? Isn't that what you want for your partner? But yet we just feed them like crap. Yeah. And with 70% of the food in America ultra-processed, it's a real problem. And, you know, we just had the NBA Finals, and if you watch them, it's about online gambling. Bad food.

Yeah. And alcohol.

And I'm like, well, no wonder our society's in trouble.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's a whole nother podcast we could do about our society and what it's doing to our society. About two of my favorite products. I've been taking these for 4 years and they are now a sponsor of the podcast. Cured Nutrition Flow gummies. I start every day with two of these. I meditate for 30 minutes without any supplements. And then I take Flow gummies 7 days a week, almost every day. And then I go to bed with night oil. 30 minutes before bed, I take night oil and it helps me fall asleep and stay asleep. So I start my day with Flow gummies. I end my day with night oil. If you want to implement my routine into your day with Cured Nutrition, go to curednutrition.com/hal. Again, that's curednutrition.com/hal. And use the discount code HAL at checkout for 20% off your entire order. Flow gummies to start the day, night oil to fall asleep. You'll feel better, you'll act better, you'll perform better. Check it out. You, so you made a, you, you shared a lot, a list there, a partial list of the, the bad list, right? Of the things to avoid. Alcohol, bad for the brain. Or you're waking up and scrolling, bad for the brain. Phone before bed, bad for the brain. Being overweight, all of these things. What's the— what's on the good list? What are like your top, you know, top 5-ish?

So I have an acronym called Bright Minds. If you want to keep your brain healthy or rescue it, you have to prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors. And I actually went through all 11. I surprised myself.

Oh, nice.

But the good things. So blood flow, Bright Minds, B is for blood flow. Okay. It's exercise, which is part of your program. Head to head against antidepressants. They're equally effective. Walking like you're late for 45 minutes, 4 times a week, equally effective to Zoloft, which is one of the really good SSRIs.

So walking 45 minutes, 4 times a week, like, like, like, so speed walking. Yes. Okay.

The R is retirement and aging. When you stop learning, your brain starts dying. Learn something new. So new learning has to be part of your life. And so for you, it would be reading.

Yeah.

The I is inflammation, and you have more inflammation in your body. Think of inflammation as a major cause of cancer, of depression, of dementia. And what gives you inflammation? Processed foods.

Processed foods.

Gum disease, low omega-3 fatty acids. So simple things, take an omega-3 fatty acid or put more of it in your diet. Floss. Flossing is a brain exercise. Oh, wow. And get rid of the sugar and foods that quickly turn to sugar. There was a study from the Mayo Clinic where they look at people at a fat-based diet. So avocados, nuts and seeds, green leafy vegetables, fish, 42% less risk of Alzheimer's disease. And then they looked at people who had the standard American diet, bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, fruit juice, sugar, 400% increased risk of Alzheimer's disease. Wow. It's the sugar and it's the foods that quickly turn to sugar.

The pasta, the bread, all the car— all the high-carb sugars, yeah, foods. Yeah.

So G is genetics, and people go, oh, I'm overweight because it's in my genes. And well, it's in mine, but I'm not.

Yeah.

Why? Because I'm on an obesity heart disease prevention program every day of my life. So you need to know your genetic risks and just look at your family and go, so what do I need? So if you, if you're a child of an alcoholic, you should be on an alcohol prevention program every day of your life. We adopted our two nieces because both their parents were drug addicts. Oh wow. And I hammered them. It's like, you need to be on an addiction prevention program every day of your life. If you never use, you're never going to have a problem. If you use, it might cost you your life.

Um, for me, it's anti-cancer lifestyle. Like, after I got cancer, I'm like, oh, I should have been living an anti-cancer lifestyle. What are all the things that I've been putting in my body that could cause cancer. And it was all just the artificial—

killed your sister.

She, she was born with a very rare heart defect. It was called Ehlers-Danlos. No, that's a different one. I actually can't remember. But she was born with a rare form of dwarfism that also caused a heart defect. And she died of heart failure at 18 months old.

Wow.

Yeah.

So sorry.

Yeah.

So, but know what your people have. The H is head trauma. A major cause of psychiatric problems. So when I'm listening to your story, that depression after cancer, well, issues stack, right? Losing your sister when you're 8, chronic stress, chronic stress in the family. So clearly traumatic.

Yeah.

And then the brutal car accident and then the chemotherapy. So it's not the chemotherapy by itself. There's a term I like called brain reserve. It's the extra tissue you have to deal with whatever stress came your way. So we would agree cancer and the 700 hours of chemotherapy, that's really stressful, but it's the brain you bring into cancer and the chemotherapy that often determines how you do. And your brain reserve had gotten stolen. Yeah. Or hurt. Now, with your parents really turning pain into purpose, that probably boosted your brain reserve. And so every day our brain reserve is growing or it's shrinking. T is toxins. And, you know, I talked about alcohol and marijuana. I'm not a fan. And but it's also environmental toxins. So it can be mold. Exposure. It can be heavy metals. Like I did that— I don't have much hair, but I did a hair sample. My mercury was way too high. And so detoxing was really important to continue to have a healthy brain. M is mental health. And there I really think about negativity bias, negativity, low hope. Low happiness, bad for your brain. All of them go with low frontal lobe function. And so one of the things I hear from you is you're really teaching people to have hope. And part of that is have a healthy brain.

Yeah.

But then it's developing agency. Tomorrow can be better and I have a role and there are multiple paths to get what I want. And so I teach a lot of my patients positivity bias training. Today is going to be a great day. What went well today? When I go to bed tonight, I always do this. What went well today? I'll think about you. And I'm like, because this was fun and this was important. But it's a daily practice. And even the day my dad died about 6 years ago, because I'd been doing this practice. I went to bed and I went, what went well today? And it was the worst day of my life. But I found 3 things that were truly gifts that day. The second, I, is immunity and infections. COVID just did such a number on our society, in part because it causes an inflammatory bomb to go off in the brains of vulnerable people. Um, I want everybody to know their vitamin D level because vitamin D strengthens your immunity. Um, the N is neurohormones. So your hormones, you know why our hormones drop with age? It's the planet's way of getting rid of you. And I'm like, not okay with this. I'm like, no. So I think everyone should have their hormones tested and optimized. And for the women who are listening, progesterone drops 10 years before they go into menopause. And progesterone is sort of like the brain's natural Valium. It sort of calms things down. So when they're 40, they're like anxious, they can't sleep, they end up on an SSRI or a benzo or sleeping pill. I'm like, nah, doctor should test your hormones, and maybe 100 milligrams of progesterone could save your life.

In supplement form?

Or, or in medicine form. Okay, it can be both. You can get about, um, The D is diabetes. If you're overweight, as we talked about, or you have high blood sugar, bad for your brain, which is why I like lower simple carbohydrate diets. And then S is sleep. It's so important when you sleep, your brain cleans and washes itself. But all of it comes back to this one question: is what I'm doing now good for my brain or bad for it? Now you have the list.

Yeah. I love that. Well, that, that was my, that's been for many, many years, my, my simple diet guideline, which is, does this add value to my health and longevity? Right? In other words, what are the consequences of what I'm gonna put in my body? Does it contribute to my health and longevity or does it, is it detrimental? And that was really how I went from eating, you know, a junk food, fast food lifestyle to going, I'm only gonna put things in my body. You know, 9 out of 10 times at least, not perfect, but 9 out of 10 times that add value to my body. And you're just taking that and, and, and, you know, applying it to, to the brain.

Well, and I would just shift the question just a little bit.

Please.

Do I love food that loves me back?

There you go. Okay.

Because I don't know if you've ever been in a bad relationship. I have, and I'm not doing it anymore. You met my wife and she's my best friend and, um, you know, so I got that part right. I'm for sure not gonna be in a bad relationship with food.

Yeah, that makes sense. One of the things I want to talk to you about, so ADD and ADHD. ADHD seems to be the more popular clinical term nowadays, but I've heard you lean toward ADD. And also you talk about there's 7 types of it. As someone who— there's actually 2 parts of this question, which is the difference between ADD and ADHD. And then I want to ask you, is it a, is it a problem or is it a superpower?

Um, so, so in 1980, when I trained, the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, was ADD with or without hyperactivity. In 1987, when they revised it, they changed the term to ADHD, and I hated that because they actually threw out half the people who had it, because half the people who have it are never hyperactive.

Interesting.

So to put it in the title I thought was a huge mistake. Uh, the scientific term today— it's not really scientific, I mean, they vote on these things, that's not science— is ADHD. But in 1994, they went, oh, we made a mistake. And so they changed the name again to AD/HD, highlighting that half the people are never hyperactive. Got it. And when I started doing imaging, I'm like, it's not one thing. It's 7 different things. And initially I thought it was 6 different things. And then, you know, I've added a 7th type. I may add an 8th type, um, head trauma-induced ADD, because, um, having a head injury like you did can clearly cause it. Now, if you clearly had symptoms beforehand, short attention span, distractibility, disorganization, procrastination, impulse control, um, then the accident just could sort of accelerate it or make it worse.

Worse.

Is it a superpower? Yeah, for some people. I mean, a lot of people who run organizations, especially small businesses, have ADD because they can't work for other people, right? It's hard for them to show up. It's hard for them to follow through. They— if they love it, they can do it. Yeah, but working for someone else, you generally don't love it. And, uh, they can be hyper-successful if they surround themselves with people who follow through. But if they don't, generally they get in trouble with the IRS because they're not following through on the things they need to do.

Yeah.

Um, many strengths of people who have ADD, they're often very creative. Uh, they often have low frontal lobes, so they say the first thing that comes to their mind. A lot of my patients go, I'm brutally honest, and in my head I'm going, it's usually not helpful.

Yeah.

Um, you know, and often when I lecture, I'll go, how many of you are married? And half the group will raise their hand. I said, is it helpful for you to say everything you think?

Yeah.

In your marriage? And they're like, no, no, it's not helpful. We need to inhibit. Yeah. Our—

we need discernment, right?

Yeah, discernment and a little bit of a break in our brain. Um, with treatment, people get much closer to their potential. Um, And treatment's not always medicine, but a lot of people feel ashamed if they have to take medicine. And you wear glasses, and why? Because it's easier to see. Yeah, right. The world's easier to navigate, and the same thing's true with effectively treating ADD. The world's just easier. Easier.

Yeah. Um, what are, what are some treatments for ADD? What are some natural treatments? And then obviously everybody knows, you know, Adderall and Ritalin and all that, but what are some natural and/or some supplements? I know you have a huge supplement line. I've taken your supplements for many years.

Well, thank you.

Yeah.

So saffron has 5 studies with ADD showing it was equally effective as Ritalin or methylphenidate. Um, I think all of us should be taking omega-3 fatty acids, particularly if you have ADD. And there's 2 main types of omega-3s, DHA and EPA. EPA is actually more effective for ADD than DHA. So I would take an EPA-rich product. Our Omega-3 Power has 60% EPA in it. Magnesium can be really helpful if you're low in iron and you should test your ferritin level, which is a measure of iron storage that can be really helpful. A little bit of zinc. So our Happy Saffron has zinc, curcumin, and saffron in clinically effective doses. Uh, I like— so saffron, omega-3 fatty acids, magnesium, ferritin if you're low. Got it.

I wanted two, uh, of the— on the bad list that I want to hyperfocus on a little bit here. Um, one is alcohol. Because I think most folks, I would imagine, don't think about the effect on their brain, right? If they think about the effect at all, meaning it's like, eh, whatever. I, you know, I only have one glass of wine every day. And that's actually specifically I'm curious about, cuz that's a very popular, like it's been promoted as you should have one glass of wine. It's good for you. So I'm curious if that's true. But most of what I think, think of, if anything, the liver and those are the things they're thinking about, not on the brain. So I'd love to talk about alcohol and the, and its effect on the brain. And whether it's okay to have one glass of wine or one beer a day.

Well, it just depends on how much you love yourself.

Okay.

Uh, alcohol is a disinfectant.

Hmm.

Uh, the American Cancer Society came out against any alcohol. Why? It increases your— any alcohol increases your risk of 8 different cancers. Anything that increases your risk of cancer, I'm not a fan of. And like I said, it's a disinfectant and people don't think about, well, why would it be a problem to drink a disinfectant? You know, my wife is a nurse. When she gives you shots, she'll put alcohol on your skin because it kills the bugs. Well, how many bugs do you have in your gut that are good for you? 100 trillion bugs. And it's called the microbiome.

Yeah.

And they make neurotransmitters. They digest your food, they detoxify. Your body. It contains 60% of your immune system. Drinking consistently damages the microbiome. And I'm like, and you make— people make bad decisions when they drink. They make bad decisions with food. They make bad decisions with their mouth. They, they just, you know, sleep, you name it. If you want to see a drama on television, in television there's so much alcohol. It's they'll drink, they'll say something dumb or do something dumb. And the drama keeps the series going. Alcohol, you know, as a psychiatrist, I've just seen it devastate people.

So what's it do to the brain specifically?

It drops blood flow to the brain and prematurely ages your brain and your skin.

Right.

And premature aging.

Yeah. That's one thing that when I— once I— when I got cancer and the doctor said, we don't know what causes your cancer. It's very rare, you know? And it's almost like, I think a lot of people go, oh, well, it's not my fault. They don't even know. It's a mystery. For me, it was, what's everything that I've put in my body that is either toxic or not natural? And alcohol was one of those things I was having. I was having one beer a day after work. That was my part of my ritual. And then post-cancer, I went to no alcohol for a long time. Now I'll maybe do a beer a week at the most, or half a beer a week. It's very minimal. Just there's a little, little something. All right. And I, I never end— I always have a half a beer and then I'm like, I didn't even do— what am I doing? You know, um, but there's this little like rebel part of me that's like, I still need to have a little something that's bad for me, right?

Why? It's an interesting question.

Yeah, it is.

It is. It's, you know, you— it— and it's probably more than anything a habit.

Yeah.

And what you're trying to do is help people create helpful habits, right? If you think of the Miracle Morning and SAVERS, and I love that, but you get triggered and it's like, oh, I should have a beer.

Yeah.

Or I get triggered and like, oh, I should have, you know, if I go to Italy, yeah, oh, I should have a gelato. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, am I living by my triggers?

Yeah.

Or am I living by my goals? And these are my goals, right? So it's not what I should do, right? You tell people what they should do, they're like, no, I'm not going to do that. And I always like, whenever you think you should do something, just change it.

Yeah.

Do you want to do it or does it fit your goals to do it? Like, I might not want to work out, but clearly fits my goals.

Being healthy and strong and all that. So are you a zero alcohol Ever? Or are you zero?

Okay. I mean, why am I gonna drink poison? Yeah.

I'm not gonna like— yeah, yeah. I think for me it's the, it ends up being like, uh, well, a tiny bit of poison a couple times a month isn't— but you know, but I, I'm with you. Um, the, uh, the, what was I gonna say?

Will you miss it? No, I really wouldn't.

Uh, and I go through again, it's, it's, you know, it went from once a day to a couple times a month. So I probably have a couple, two beers a month, I would say, you know, so Um, the, uh, the next question I want to ask you, the next on, on the, on the naughty list, if you will, right? Smartphones. I really want to understand what our smartphone is doing to our brain, uh, first thing in the morning by starting. What is that doing with the, um, dopamine and right? What's it doing right before bed? And then just in general as a whole, because I think that, I think that is the biggest most, you know, it's the most normalized problem in our society. And I think also a lot of, you know, for me having teenage kids, that thinking about what's it doing as their brain is still developing, right?

Yeah. Push it off as long as you can until it hurts. Yeah. Kids who get smartphones early have a higher incidence of suicide. I mean, it's like so scary.

Explain why that is.

Because it's basically damaging the pleasure centers in the brain. So there's an area of your brain— that feels joy, that feels, uh, pleasure. And the neurotransmitter dopamine works on the nucleus accumbens, part of the basal ganglia. And you notice the micro-moments of happiness. Constantly pushing on that area begins to wear it out. And pretty soon you feel flat. You don't feel joy because the nucleus accumbens has been thrilled to death.

So it's just that constant, like, it's just stimulating it.

And then if you add that to social media, to video games, to pornography, to the negative news, it's like, no wonder this generation's in big trouble.

Yeah, right.

The incidence— there's one study that came out of the CDC that said 57% of teenage girls reported being persistently sad, 32% had thought of killing themselves, 24% had planned to kill themselves, and 13% had tried to kill themselves. These are statistics we have never seen. Yeah, in the world. Yeah, that our society is literally stealing the brain health of our children. And Britain just banned social media for kids under 16. It's so brilliant. Australia had done it. Canada, there's legislation. I'm a huge fan of— no, we need to protect them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What, um, am I, am I making this up, or I feel that I've read somewhere that that looking at your cell phone, it activates the same region of the brain as cocaine does.

Yeah, it's the pleasure center. It is.

Okay. Yeah. So overstimulating.

Now it does it in little bites.

Yeah.

But 1,000 times a day.

Yeah.

And there are some countries where kids are on social media 13 hours a day and always that little dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. And I always say you want to drip it don't dump it.

Yeah. And what about for adults in terms of the— so the teenage brain is different because it's not fully developed until it's 25. What about for, for us, for, you know, you're 30, 40?

Your brain is always being shaped.

Yeah.

And modeled.

Yeah.

Um, even at 72, my brain is, you know, every day it's better, it's worse, depending on the habits I engage in. And so I think being cautious and giving yourself a break. Yeah, is very helpful.

All right, let's make this actionable for anybody listening. Um, the— actually, there's, there's two, two questions. I was gonna give one more, but I have another one. Um, if you were designing a brain-healthy morning routine, right, because I'm the Miracle Morning guy, a lot of my audience listens, or Miracle Morning practitioners, what would a brain-healthy morning routine look like?

So I, I love what the Miracle Morning is because I think of it as a brain health routine. And with that, I would add sunshine to it.

Uh, how much sunshine? How long do you— should you be outside?

Is, you know, if you can do it for 10 minutes.

Okay.

Like, Tan and I, we usually go for a half an hour walk.

Nice.

Every morning. I love it. Uh, and get the dogs and just go. And I think that's so helpful. I think you should drink 16 ounces of water just to start hydrating. Um, if you do intermittent fasting, it's absolutely fine not to eat until 11 a clock, or if you have protein. But I would start the day with protein, not sugar, not Pop-Tarts, donuts, waffles, sugar cereals. Yeah.

So protein. And what's your favorite source of protein for breakfast? Would it be eggs? Would it be steak and eggs? Would it be—

for me, it's eggs.

Eggs. Okay.

I pretty much have 3.

We have 50 chickens on our ranch, so we get fresh eggs every day.

I love that.

Yeah, it's great. Um, all right, so, uh, all right, so that's your morning routine. And then the—

and, and—

oh yeah.

Every day. Today is going to be a great day.

I'm at mindset push.

What I'm looking forward to today is going to be a great day. And then I start looking for the micro miracles, and it's like eye contact with my wife or just holding hands while we're walking. Um, we live near the beach, so go to see the waves. I mean, I'm just training my brain to look for what I like.

I love that. Uh, 7-Day Brain Challenge. So for anybody that's watched this or listened to this and they go, okay, the brain is pretty important, I should probably stop ignoring it, and actually it may be the most important thing for me, you know, as, as if not— I mean, you'd argue it's way more important than actually working on your muscles. That's important, but working on your brain, that's arguably takes number one on the list. What would be kind of a 7-day, like, brain challenge reset? What are just some of the most important things that people can stop doing and start doing, or do less of and do more of over the course of the next week to really start to see some positive movement in their cognitive function, their memory, their emotional well-being, that kind of thing.

So if you did a 7-Day Brain Challenge, it's that one question 3 times a day.

Okay.

What I'm doing now, good for my brain or bad for it? And does it make the world better? And if you can just say yes to that, and in the process walk like you're late for 45 minutes, hydrate, get some sunshine, and then whenever you feel sad, mad, nervous, or out of control, Write down what you're thinking and just ask yourself whether or not it's true.

Yeah, right.

It's learning to manage your mind so your mind doesn't manage you. And probably day one, we would do the One Page Miracle that I do with all of my patients. Write down what you want, but in a very structured way. What do you want in your relationships, your work, your money, your physical, emotional, spiritual health. Write it down day one.

Yeah.

And then every day you just look at it and go, does it fit? Does my behavior fit the goals I have for my life? So it's not anybody telling you what you should want.

Yeah.

It's what do you want? And are— is your brain working for you Or is it sort of going rogue? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the book Change Your Brain, Change Your Life, you're best known for. You've got 40 books, is that right?

Yeah. Craziness.

Yeah. What's your most recent book?

Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain.

Okay. I saw that on a shelf.

Hal Elrod. I wrote about the doom loop, which is how people get into pain but then accelerate it because they're not managing their brain.

So that's physical pain. Some of that's physical pain. That's what those were. Okay.

Emotional energy. And did you know that if you take Tylenol, and I'm not a huge fan of Tylenol, but it actually helps to soothe heartbreak. It actually starts to soothe the pain of a breakup. So it's, you know, we think of it as a physical medicine that actually has positive psychological effects.

Well, if you think about emotions just in general, right? If you're angry, your palms are sweaty, your heart is racing, right? So there is not— there is an inextricable— or what's the word— the link between physical, mental, and emotional, right? We're all one being that everything affects everything else.

Well, and they run through the same pathways in the brain, you know, because one of the reasons I wrote the book is why does Cymbalta, a really good antidepressant, why is it FDA approved for depression and pain? Because it works on the same pathway. SAMe, the supplement SAMe, it's helpful for depression, but it's also helpful for arthritis. Yeah. It's like, well, why is that? Because it's working on the same circuits in the brain. I love that.

What's the best place for people to find you and get a SPECT scan, find your supplements, your books, your work?

Well, so our supplements, brainmd.com, our clinics, Amen, like the last word in a prayer, clinics.com. They can follow me on Instagram or TikTok, of all places.

You look like a TikToker. Well, Dr. Amen, it is truly, uh, it's a pleasure and an honor. Somebody who's followed your work for many years. Uh, thanks for sitting down with me today.

Thank you, Hal. So grateful for you.

Yeah, you too.