Breaking Sugar Addiction By Getting to the Root Cause, Episode 8

Hey everyone, so I am joined here today by Dani, and she is one of the producers of the keto— well, the Quit Sugar Summit. We have so many great free education right now, it's pretty awesome. But maybe you can tell us, Dani, how you got involved with the sugar-free life and kind of how you came to that, and then we'll go from there.

Yeah, amazing. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic. I'm so excited to be a part of this in the beginning of this podcast. Yes, very fun. I feel so honored. I'm grateful that we connected with my work with the Quit Sugar Summit. My journey with sugar, we'll call it my journey and relationship with sugar, it's been underlying my whole life. I think for all of us, it starts in childhood. It wasn't for me until about 5 years ago when I was on a trip in South America with my husband that I really realized the addiction that I had to sugar, that it really had its talons in me and this control over me. I really started just having some eye-opening moments, and I feel so blessed and grateful that I didn't go through any crazy health traumas or issues like most people do in order to wake up and realize, hey, it's time to change the way I'm eating. For me, it was more of a combination of just this trip, and I actually went through an accidental sugar detox in the middle of the Colombian jungle, of all places. Wow. Great place to do it. No, I don't recommend anybody doing it there. Actually, it was a wonderful place to do it. We were just living off the land and not eating any of the junk that we'd been eating the whole rest of our trip and I'd been eating my whole life, you know. And, you know, my body, you know, I went through withdrawals. At the time I had no idea what was going on. I thought I was sick. You know, why am I tired all the time? Why does my head hurt? Why, you know, am I hungry at weird hours? You know, my body was doing all sorts of weird things and, you know, it was a couple weeks later that we came back home to— I'm in Canada. And I really noticed that my cravings were gone or that sugar didn't have this pull on me anymore like it used to, and that was really eye-opening for me and really what started my whole investigative journey and really my deep passion in learning how to nourish myself and what that meant because I always thought I was quote-unquote healthy. I always thought I was doing the right thing and I'd eat the quinoa salad covered in sugary salad dressing, right? Cranberries in it and all the fruit and sugar stuff too, right? So, you know, at that point I also took a hard look at my family and my genetic future. If that was gonna be something that, you know, I kept eating the way that I was eating and kept being addicted to sugar like my whole family was, especially on my mom's side, you know, I was on a quick path to being riddled with all the chronic diseases that are in my genetic history, you know, in my family's genetics. And I could see my mom and everyone in her family, you know, sick, you know, with one of these chronic diseases and passing away from chronic diseases. And I just realized, like, that's not the future I want, you know. I want to be 90 years old and going on multi-day hikes. I'm a big avid, you know, hiker and backpacker. And, um, you know, I want to be traveling the world. And all these things really started clicking for me, and I started realizing that sugar had this pull on me and was really dictating my future and the life that I was gonna have when I was older. So I started just embarking on my own investigative journey. I started studying holistic nutrition and really just for my own knowledge and then tapping in and realizing I wanted to help other people with this, so I started working as a nutritional coach, this was 5 years ago now, while still sort of in the trenches of my journey with sugar and through a sort of I kind of say it's about a 2-year time frame. I finally got to a place where I felt like I was in the driver's seat again with food and with sugar because I had healed that relationship with it. So this is important to say for everyone listening to, I'm not 100% sugar-free. I choose freedom and I enjoy having a glass of wine. I enjoy choosing to have a brownie if I want one. And really it's on my terms and not every day and not in everything that I'm eating, right? It's that kind of that moderation and that freedom that I found for myself with on my journey and with the inner work and, you know, the systems that I've seen kind of work for my clients over the last couple years. So that's like the Coles Notes. Obviously there's a lot more to that story, but I hope that gives everybody a little idea of my background.

Yeah, no, I think it's great to know where you're coming from. And I guess my next question would be kind of when you came back from Colombia and you'd had this revelation and you'd gone through this big detox, was it— because I think there's a few things in what you said right there, and I had this other interview with it. Most of the people I'm talking to have been on this journey for a while. It's not people that have only been doing it, you know, just to lose 10 pounds or, you know, maybe for 6 months even. Everybody that I'm talking to— myself, I'm going on 5 years now of low carb and keto, uh, 4 years fully keto. And then, you know, the other person I talked to was like 15 years, and here you are 5 years in as well. So I think there's some differences for people just starting versus where we are now. And I think the beauty of where we are now is we have healed our body to a great degree. We've healed our relationship with food to a great degree. And so we do have a little bit more freedom to, you know, enjoy some things that people that are battling disease or just starting or have severe obesity may not have that same freedom yet. That's my hope for everybody, is to kind of get to a place of food freedom, whether that means occasionally having, you know, some of those things that you mentioned, or food freedom for them means that they are just a total abstainer because they know themselves and they know if they eat that one cookie or one brownie, as you mentioned, they're going to go over the edge. So I think there's a lot of knowing yourself in all that. There is a question in here. So I guess my question is that when you got back from Colombia, what was that process like when you had that realization and you knew that you were going to commit to your health in this way and you really looked at your family and saw these problems, like how did that kind of first year go for you? Were you more strict? Did you struggle? Did you go on and off? Just maybe some more color around how that went for you.

Yeah, amazing. Thank you for asking me to pull that out. It's funny, I'm trying to think back and remember all the details, but I do want to sort of shadow exactly what you just said. And I mean, my, you know, my belief wholeheartedly is that we all need to figure out what works for us and And really being willing to go down that journey and really tuning into what works for me isn't gonna work for someone else and finding that uniqueness. So yeah, when I think back to that first year, I'm so grateful my husband was on board as well. He noticed, wow, I don't wanna be addicted to sugar anymore and what's this gonna do if we take it out of our diet? So we actually at the same time came home and decided to go vegetarian at that point. So we just went whole food, vegetarian, no to minimal sugar. And it was a roller coaster. This is why I feel like it was a good 2 years of roller coastering before I felt like I had control, like I was in the driver's seat again. It's because I was all alone. I mean, all these amazing resources existed back then, but for some reason I didn't think to hit Google, right? I didn't think about it. I didn't even think about, like, there's other people out there struggling with it. We were the only ones in our family unit, which I think is one of the biggest difficulties when it comes to sugar addiction, is most people don't get it and they think you're the crazy one in the family. So I'm okay being that crazy one, so that didn't hold me back, but that first year was tough. I remember feeling really lost, not only going through withdrawals, but feeling really lost that my crutch wasn't there anymore, and oftentimes going back to the crutch. Like I said, I was on and off many, many times before I finally figured out and did the deeper work for myself in terms of getting back in the driver's seat of sugar. So that first year was a mess. You know, we'd go a week without sugar and then we'd have a week with sugar and then a week without. And I remember the, like, one of the most difficult parts for me was learning how to cook a whole new way. And I think this really resonates with a lot of people, whether you're going keto or you're just wanting to get off sugar or whatever. It's when we're so used to our plate or our meals being a certain way, you know, we've cooked a certain thing our whole lives or our mom's always cooked this, you know, it can be a bit of a bumpy journey to learn how to create new meals or to create flavors flavor with real food if you've only ever eaten fast food your whole life. So I had to relearn, now that there's not meat on my plate, this was a big one, or sugar and all the bread that I was eating before and the white pasta, what else is going to be on my plate? What other flavors exist? And in the beginning it was like, well, there's going to be nothing for me to eat. But then I just started looking at different places and looking obviously for recipes online and a whole new world of food opened up to me, a whole new new spices, new flavors, new ways of combining and creating meals. And I actually enjoyed that process, you know, once I kind of got over the hump of being overwhelmed with like, well, what am I going to eat now? There's no bread and meat on my plate. You know, I kind of did both at the same time. So yeah, it was an interesting journey for sure. But, you know, for anyone who's maybe in that spot, just know that it's not about being perfect. You know, I think just the more we stay open and loving and kind with ourselves and understanding that we're It is a journey, it's not something you need to be perfect at. I definitely wasn't and I still am not. I'm still learning things about myself and food and certain things come up and I'm like, that's interesting, I didn't know that was a trigger, fantastic, good to know. That's life, it's not about being perfect and every time I quote unquote failed or slipped up or had a week with sugar or binge on sugar, I chose to learn from that and understand, oh, it's because this happened or oh, sadness is still a trigger for me. What are some things that I still need to deepen into and to continue working on? So just coming at it from that lens, I think, was really supportive for me. And obviously, I'm very lucky my husband was on board too, which was helpful. I know a lot of people don't have that. But yeah, so the first year was an interesting one for sure. Thanks for asking me to go back there. I'm trying to remember it all.

And did you find— so for me personally, I find that having my why for doing this you know, I had some previous health problems myself, and then there's a lot of cancer in my family, and some of the same things that you mentioned. For me personally, having my why, a strong why, and related to health, not my weight, has really been something that allows me to make better decisions every day about what I'm putting in my mouth or what I decide to consume, whether it is whether it's food or whether it's content or whether it's other things that affect sort of your mindset and the way that you think. So for you, and when you're working with people, do you find that finding a strong why really helps drive your behavior after that?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you mentioned that. I mean, that was a big piece for me and really tuning into not only wanting to feel better, um, you know, because weight loss wasn't my goal at that point. You know, I've always been relatively tall and, you know, within, you know, 10 or so pounds, relatively skinny, and this you know, sort of thing. So that wasn't my motivator, you know, but really understanding and tapping into like the deeper version of my why. And this is a big thing that I do, um, with clients is oftentimes we'll kind of connect with a why or a motivation on like a surface level, but until we, you know, really tap into the deep like emotional why, um, you know, it can become hard to stick with something, right? So Really getting clear on that is absolutely important, you know, and that was a big part of my journey for sure, and continuing to dive deep into what kind of life do I want to live, you know, and why, like, what is sugar going to rob me of if I don't change, right? And for me it was going to be cancer, diabetes, and obesity, and heart disease, and Alzheimer's, and all of it. And I wasn't going to be able to live the life that I wanted to, so, you know, that was no doubt a big motivator for me, and very helpful on days when, it gets tough, right? For anyone who's listening and just getting started.

Yeah, I agree. I think, and I think, you know, when you work with people on a day-to-day basis like you do, identifying these sort of health goals and your why, it just, um, again, like the day that you're having a bad day and you would normally reach for candy or sugar, you just kind of have to get new coping skills, which, you know, my background's in psychology, so it's kind of like all this stuff is really a lot of psychological tools that we're talking about here. So it's not just, you know, figuring out what you're going to eat, but to your point, you said you also have to deal with those deeper issues. And I liked the way that you connected it. Say we have a surface level idea about what it is, but really getting to the root of that. And maybe it could— I mean, I'm assuming probably when you said that, you might have had someone or a certain scenario in mind. Could you make it like a little bit more concrete for people? Like Because I think sometimes when people are just getting into it too, it's hard for them to identify anything besides the surface because they're just thinking, oh, I just want to lose 10 pounds to go to this graduation party or something like that. So can you maybe expand on that a little bit and give us a concrete— both sides of it?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know, and that's a really good example that you just gave there too. So that's kind of the example coming up for me. A lot of us will, um, and there's nothing wrong with this and really wanting to, you know, either get off sugar or just— or like your goal being losing weight, right? I want to do this, I want to eat better because I want to lose weight. And then the process that I got my— and it's really simple— is just ask yourself why at least 3 other times. So this is how we dive into that. So you want to lose weight, Cheryl? That's great. Why do you want to lose weight? What is behind the actual wanting to lose weight? Well, I want to lose weight so that I I want to feel sexy in my body again. Great. Why do you want to feel sexy in your body again? Well, maybe it's because I want to, you know, be confident in my job and I want to be able to go after promotions that I'm kind of holding back from, or I want to be more intimate with my husband and feel like I have the confidence for that. And then asking again, like, why is that important to you? Right? And you actually get to, when you keep asking with that curiosity, you can dig, dive deeper and deeper. For a lot of us, it comes deeply down to the type of life we wanna live, and that we wanna be here for our grandchildren, and that we want to— like for me, I wanna be able to live my best life into my 90s and go hiking and traveling, and really tapping into more depth into what your soul actually craves and what you actually want. And that's your real why. Not the surface level. I mean, the wanting to lose weight is just at the surface of all of this deep— desires and wanting and, and need of you, you know, being here on the planet. So does that answer it a little bit? Does that help?

Yes. And I just— can I just say, I just love all of the things that you just said because it's so— I mean, we— I definitely, you know, obviously you tend to be even online attracted to people that have like sort of a certain mindset or a certain way of being, right? And I just love how you just drilled that down into ask 3 more times. And it's like, look at the stuff stuff that can come up from that. So I think that tip alone, if people don't take anything else away from us chatting today, I think that that is just such a huge and really helpful idea that you just threw out there.

Awesome. Yeah, and I encourage everybody listening or watching, you know, to do that. To sit down with your journal, clear yourself some mental and physical space, and just connect deeper. And you might not get, you know, past 2 levels of why right away, but just ask it anyway and just see what comes up, or brainstorm, or just just posing that question to your subconscious, eventually you will get an answer. And just staying open to that, you know, don't get frustrated if it doesn't come to you right away, right? You know, just be open to, you know, it will come up for you if you keep asking that question.

Yeah, I love that. And so then, how— so you've been going out 5 years, so we kind of talked about your first year, um, you know, really transitioning, struggling, going on and off, but then really finding your why. And kind of, you know, things even out after a while, you get used to to a new way of eating and what are you putting on your plate, like you said. So then how did you go from that into having this desire to share it with others and help others on the same journey? How was— how did those next few years go of getting involved with the Quit Sugar and helping, you know, clients and all that stuff?

Yeah, it's been such an interesting journey for me. I mean, every year it just unfolds in new ways, and I think the biggest piece has been me just being able to sit back and allow for shifts to come. So, you know, when I started 5 years ago, I got my certification as a holistic nutritional coach, and I did start coaching with clients and started working with people, but more general around habit building and around, hey, let's look at, you know, your, your food, and it's kind of that surface level stuff. And the more clients that I worked with, and then also combined with at the same time going through my own journey specifically around sugar, I really realized that that was my passion and that was my niche, my thing that I could speak about after I kind of came out of the fog of my addiction to sugar. It's actually a funny story. I was sitting on a patio having a glass of wine with a girlfriend and we were chatting about business and brainstorming and she said, "Why are you not helping people with sugar?" And I just had this lightbulb moment and I was like, "That's it. I have a story." I found a way out for myself, I wanna support other people with this because those 2 years that I struggled were very, very difficult, especially mentally on myself, the guilt and the failure that came up and the beliefs I started telling, there's something wrong with me, why can't I get a handle on this? The mental toll that it took on me aside from the physical toll of being addicted to sugar and it was just something that I really felt I felt this big pull like, hey, this is something I need to be talking more about and sharing my story and supporting others through this. It doesn't take 2 years and it's not this lonely, frustrating, confusing journey. And, um, you know, that was kind of what sparked things for me. So I'd say it's been about maybe the last 2 and a half years then that I've really been focusing in on the sugar piece. And the more clients that I work with, the more I get to deeper levels of what's really going on. And I would say one of the gifts for me personally in the pandemic last year was getting really crystal clear on the very deep belief systems and emotions and trauma and very foundational pieces that are actually at the root of our behaviors and patterns around food. I definitely operate now, and I've seen this in myself and in all my clients, this belief that our patterns and our relationship with sugar or food have nothing to do with food and everything to do with our relationship with ourselves. So, you know, in my own journey of doing my inner work and, you know, all the personal growth things that I've done, I realized that, you know, as I've stepped more into my power and as I've stepped more into knowing who I am and loving who I am, all those bad habits, you know, kind of fall away. So, you know, there is this really deep-rooted piece behind it, and I've just I'm just so passionate, you know, in educating people around that and helping people, you know, women work through those pieces and start connecting those dots. Like, oh, all of this is stemming from the belief that I am not worthy. You know, that's one of the biggest things. Like, every one of my clients, we all, I think, as human beings have that belief, right?

It is the thing. It is the only thing, really.

It is the only thing, right? It is one of the core limiting beliefs that until we begin to really shift that, you know, we're never going to show up. And live the life that we want, right? And that's fine if you don't want to make the most of life, I'm not here to judge anyone, that's totally fine, but for those of us I think that are striving and constantly yo-yo dieting and constantly beating ourselves up, I think getting to that root piece, which is not easy, and this is why people avoid it, and this is why I'm here standing up saying you can't just get off of sugar, you do have to do the deeper work, and understanding where your addiction and your patterns are coming from before you're ever gonna find a lasting way out. You know, my goal, I would love every single human being to get off of the yo-yo dieting bandwagon and really learn to tune in to their own inner wisdom instead of, you know, tuning out to, you know, everyone outside of themselves to make decisions. So really taking our power back and owning what works for us and what doesn't and loving that and honoring our bodies in that way.

Did you experience, because you just talked about kind of getting control again and tuning in, one of the things that I really find about getting the sugar out of my diet is that you have much more even blood sugar, right? And so with even blood sugar comes an ability to, you're not getting these hunger hormones spiked spiking your interest in food all the time. So because things are more even, I think there's more of an ability to actually tune in and get in touch with what does real hunger feel like, or noticing more because you're not having those hormonal signals. You can notice, well, no, I'm trying to eat right now just because I'm bored, or I'm trying to eat right now because, um, you know, something didn't go my way, or whatever it is, you know. I think without those hormonal aspects of sugar going throughout your day, your brain is actually more clear in a place where you can tune into some of those other things. Um, but it takes a while, obviously, to get to that point and to get to a point where you're consistent enough that you can listen to those inner signals.

Totally, totally. And I'm really glad that you pulled that out because that is such an important piece of the journey. And every time I work with a client, there's always a period sugar-free You gotta get it all out. You have to go, whether it's a couple months, a year, or whatever, or life. I mean, getting that out of your body is such an important part of the process. And like you said, just getting your brain back and balancing your blood sugar levels so you can get your energy back, right? You're not relying on caffeine and sugar hits throughout the day. You're like, oh, actually, my body can actually produce its own energy. You know what I mean? You know, and really getting level and kicking the physical cravings, it does, it opened up a whole world of being able to be aware of what else is going on. Because for a lot of us, it's— yes, it's the physical addiction. I mean, there's definitely a cellular physical toxicity to overdosing on sugar, but there's more to it. As we're talking about, you know, for a lot of us, it's the emotional component or past trauma that we've never healed or something else going on, right? And when we remove our crutch, which is sugar, we have to face that stuff and we have to look at it. A lot of people maybe aren't prepared for that piece. So hopefully listening, for anyone listening or watching right now, just being aware that that is an invitation for you to deepen into what's really going on behind the scenes. When you take that away, it really shines a light on all the things. Like, "Oh, my crutch for boredom isn't here anymore, or stress." Like, "Okay, what's actually going on?" We can start to tune in in that time. It's a very important piece of the process for sure. To kind of have that mental clarity and space in your life and to start diving in and to start paying attention to what's going on underneath.

So then how out of all of that, so did you start working with people first and then you kind of had the idea for the Quit Sugar Summit or how did that whole thing come to be?

Oh yes, yes, good ask about that. So great question. So actually the Quit Sugar Summit has been such a gift in my life. Mike Collins is the founder of the Quit Sugar Summit and he started it about 6 years ago, I think this was the 6th annual summit. And, you know, I connected with Mike out of the blue about 2 years ago. I just, you know, he was speaking up about sugar and I loved what he was sharing, what he was doing. I sent him a message that, hey, let's connect, like, I want to support you. And we got on a chat and we just connected right off the bat. So we, we've supported each other, we've done some Facebook Lives and things a couple years ago, and he He invited me onto the team for the Quit Sugar Summit last year, I guess last year, and they needed someone to come in and manage all the speakers and the affiliates and do all the behind-the-scenes stuff. So it was a role that I was excited to get involved in. I mean, I've really looked up to Mike and everything. He's been in the sugar-free space for over 30 years and he's definitely helped millions of people. So it's been an honor to kind of be connected with him and to be able to support his incredible summit, and we just wrapped up our most successful one yet. So it was a huge, you know, the impact that we had through that summit is just, it's heartwarming. Like, it just gives me chills, you know, reading the comments and the emails that we get from people who kind of follow along with the week-long event. And yeah, it's been, it's been such a, such a blessing just being able to support at a higher level and to, to you know, meet a lot of these other experts as well in the space. I mean, we get to interview a lot of incredible people. And, and Cheryl, we're having you on next time for sure.

For sure.

Um, it's such a gift.

Well, so, and that is— so for people that are listening to this later, do you typically have two a year? Because I think, um, when I spoke to Mike, he said you have another one coming up in the fall maybe. So you can just tell people a little bit more about that so that if they— I mean, the links will be in the show notes for everybody, but just in case you hear this later, so they know where to find that and they know like when it typically is.

Absolutely. Yeah. So it's kind of varied every year, the timing of it. I mean, this year we went in January. And when you throw the link down below, just everybody who's listening or watching, just, you can always jump in and the event is over for free, but you can, you can always jump in and buy one of the speaker packages and just get access to, to all the interviews. You know, in between the summits, So yeah, in the past it's been, it's been just a once-a-year event. We are toying with the idea of maybe doing it again this year, but to be honest, we're just wrapping things down. We like haven't even had mental space to think about it. So no guarantees that there'll be another one this year, but it's definitely at least a once-a-year event, and we're hoping to do it again next January. I mean, January is just such a powerful time for a lot of people, you know, kind of that motivation is already there, and we're— we just swoop in with all this really powerful life-changing information and experts. You know, we had almost 60 experts this year coming in and speaking and sharing their story, and it was just, it was crazy. I'm still letting it soak in. It's only been a couple weeks since we wrapped up.

Yeah, I used to, I don't know, you probably didn't know this about me, but I used to actually produce events all over the world in the tech space, and so I can really appreciate what you've been through the last several weeks.

I just felt like I could just start breathing again about 2 weeks after it's all over. Yeah, yeah, everybody was setting their New Year's resolutions on January 1st, and I feel like January has just started for me now in February because, like, January was just a blur. A great blur, like a really fun, amazing blur. But yeah, finally, finally get my, my brain back. Nice.

Well, since this is also, you know, obviously people are coming to this podcast because they see keto in the title, but I think it's probably becoming pretty apparent based on when I talk to people and what we talk about, that I'm a big proponent of people finding what works for them. I'm a big proponent of whole foods, of clean eating. I think that can look a lot of different ways, and I think it doesn't have to look the same for every person for an extended amount of time. I mean, I think your body goes through cycles, we go through seasonal cycles. So again, there is a question here about— are you just providing the background? So the question is, because when we first chatted you said to me, you like said, well, I'm not purely a keto person, is that cool? And I'm like, well, of course that's cool. Well, just because of all the reasons I just said to you, but can you maybe share with people how you look at your diet now and having done this for a long time in relation to keto and kind of what people perceive as keto nowadays, in the general media versus, uh, you know, being someone that's in practice of actively not eating sugar, what that actually— what keto actually means to you, I guess, in a way.

Yeah, yeah, no, this is such a great question because, and to be honest, I've waffled with it for years, right? Like this whole thing.

Um, like I might argue based on what you told me this, and this is just the example. For example, I might say that you are keto personally, like just based on what I know of you and you're committed to no sugar and you might have an occasional treat, but you eat really healthy. I mean, to me, like that's keto. And I think that's part of the challenge of the space is people hear that word now and they have a very specific perception of what it is. But to me, it's just eating as we were meant to eat, eating very ancestrally, eating very clean. So just any of your thoughts around all of that?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, and I agree with that. And I love that you're, you're sharing that message, you know, because one of the things that I've really waffled with, and, you know, I think first of all, you know, when we have the conversation around sugar, you know, the white processed carbs, the added sugars, all the overdosing that we're doing, we can remove that and drastically, you know, reduce that on any diet. I mean, you can do that healthy as a vegan, as a keto, as a carnivore, as anything. And again, it comes back to something that we we talked about in the beginning, I mean, I'm a huge proponent in playing with your body and playing with what works for you genetically, your lifestyle, all of it. You know, one of the reasons that— and it's, it's, it is so true, there's so many different definitions of keto, right? Or any, any way of eating. You know, I just personally know that I, I thrive on not having boundaries on what I can and can't eat. You know, that for me got, got me into a really toxic place of wanting the things that I couldn't have, right? And kind of feeling like I was stuck in a box, and I'm the type of person you can't put in a box. You can't do it. So I know for a lot of people that those guidelines really work, and I know that for a lot of people going on strict keto, cutting out mostly all carbs can be really supportive for hormonal balance, and I actually have some friends who've had success getting pregnant doing keto diet with therapy, therapeutic purposes. So, you know, I think it's fantastic. I think it's important, you know, to really just tune in and find something that is sustainable. I've seen a lot of people in any, you know, any way of eating do it to such an extent that it doesn't become sustainable and it becomes this on and off again, on and off again way of eating. So I think, you know, in this conversation, for anyone listening, it's just, you know, really getting clear on what do you want your long-term lifestyle and relationship with food to be. And if having those guidelines and really sticking to that is supportive for your health goals and your lifestyle and it feels good, then do it, do it, do it all for you. But just keeping in mind that it's okay to be flexible and it's okay to have some flexibility and fun. I wanna be able to eat pasta when I want, I wanna be able to have wine but not have it control me. And not have it do serious long-term damage to me. And maybe that will change for me, you know, and also staying open to that. I'm always open to new things and my body shifting, and as I age and my hormones shift, maybe I will need to readdress and look at maybe being more strict or more structured with my diet as well. So, I mean, there's no one black or white answer, and I hope everybody— and I love your message, Cheryl, because I share that. It really is about whole, real foods. Whether you want to eat meat or not eat meat, if you're just eating whole real foods, you're good.

Yeah, you know, and listening to your body, 90% better off if you just do that.

For real, 9% better off, right? Yeah, things that you could find on a farm, but you know, um, your life would change. So, you know, it's, you know, this is— those are kind of my two mantras that I really, that I kind of really live by. I keep Eat whole real foods and listen to your body. So, you know, if you're eating vegan and your body doesn't feel good, okay, maybe switch it up, right? And just paying attention, which I think is the biggest gift any of us can do because we have been trained and taught to not listen to our body. You know, we get a headache, we just take some medication for it, right? We don't think anything of it. We think, "Well, I'm just PMSing," or, "I'm just having a bad day," right? So really relearning to tune in and honor, "Hey, you know, my body's not feeling good without meat," for instance, right? And that's actually what happened to me and my husband. I mean, we were vegetarian for about, about a year, I would say, and then we just started, you know, just feeling like something was off or something was missing. So we started kind of introducing a little bit of meat. Now we have, you know, meat maybe a couple times a week. So we kind of found that balance, and it might shift again in the future, but, you know, it's just constantly paying attention and honoring what works for you.

Yeah, that's a great tip because people do become very adept at and not tuning in. And that is one of the gifts of being a yoga person for all these years, is we are very focused on, you know, listening to your body. And, you know, my body took years of abuse from running, from— I was a vegetarian for 7 years. I mean, there's a million things. But finally, the gift of age and yoga allowed me to get a lot better at really, you know, listening to my body. Doing what makes me feel optimal, because I think there's also this other— I think when people are first coming to this idea of getting rid of sugar, it's just a, it's a survival thing, right? Because they're so addicted and they're— it's such a change that they just need to get through that. But then if you stick with it and you, you know, identify your why, you can get to this other level where it's like you're no longer just surviving, you want to thrive and you want to feel optimal and you want to eat optimally for brain function and for energy and all of those things. And so that almost becomes like a, a next level thing, but it's really getting through that first phase, which I think is a little different for everybody. You described kind of on and off for a year. Um, some people might just be able to click in right away. For some people it might even take longer than that. Um, but I think that the, at the end of the day, your point is well taken to, you know, start implementing these practices. And as you are implementing them, be really mindful and starting to really try to tune in and see for— and I think your example is a great one and a well-taken one, because people do tend to go to these extremes, whether it's keto or vegan or vegetarian or whatever it is. And they get it in their head that they're gonna do that and they're gonna do that thing, and then they get attached to that idea so much that they can't let it go even when it's no longer serving them.

Yeah.

So I'm really thankful that you said that you noticed that you guys were just feeling off, and that was probably one of the first things that came to mind because you hadn't been so long into it. Because I think what happens with some of these vegans that are, you know, years into it, they're so hooked into that community and they're so hooked into that belief system, for lack of a better word, um, that they can't seem to let it go even when it's actually harming their own body.

Yeah, yeah. And even if they're, you know, any symptoms are coming up, it's easy to just, oh, that's something else. "Or that's just because it's a full moon." Right, right. And I feel like I can say this, but I don't think my dad will listen to this at all, but that's my dad. You've just described my dad. He's very much like, "We're vegan and this is very important." And that's great. I'm not sure if it is working for him or not, I haven't been able to tell, but we can become so dogmatic. In our way of eating, right? It's like a whole new religion. And I think it's really, really important to honor that our bodies are always changing and science is always changing and the world is always changing and our stress levels are always changing and it's okay to be flexible and adapt and flow and be open to changing, right? I think we get so stuck in, "No, I'm never going to change," right? But we need to adapt. Good luck never changing in life. You know, working consistent in life. Is that there will be change. So as we've all experienced last year, right? So, you know, being open to that and tuning in, I think, is so important.

So any final thoughts before we wrap up? Anything that we didn't cover? Any of your best tips for people for getting off of sugar? Or just any last thought that's occurred to you that we didn't cover?

Oh, all of it. I mean, we didn't cover a lot. There's a lot to this conversation, and I hope everybody listening is at least getting little tidbits to get started. You know, what's coming up for me is just a reminder to, you know, that there is something below our patterns and habits and addictions and cravings for sugar. And for all of us, that's something different. And, you know, being willing to actually look inward can be really scary. And understanding where do these emotions come from or what trauma is maybe there or what are my belief systems that are no longer serving me and really starting to look at that stuff because if, and I'm willing to bet anyone listening to this wants to create a lasting shift, right, and lasting health and vitality and we have to look inward in order to make it actually stick and this is the one thing that the whole yo-yo dieting industry completely completely ignores, right? It's all about eat this and don't eat that, but it's not about why you're eating it in the first place. So really, I just invite everybody as a final reminder to start inquiring with curiosity, not judgment, very important, but start, you know, just start inquiring like, why do I have these challenges or these addictions or these patterns around food? Or, you know, why do I snack every night? And just starting to be curious and build awareness around what's really going on. I mean, awareness is ground level zero, right? You know, understanding that, oh, I eat every time I'm bored. Awesome, really great information. So start playing, you know, investigator in your own life and just bring that, like I always say to my clients, that childlike curiosity, you know, in helping you understand what's really going on for you without the judgment, without the shame, because there's nothing wrong with you. And, you know, that's an important thing to remind everyone listening as well, that you're not broken, there's nothing wrong with any of us. We're all, you know, perfect as we are. And, you know, uncovering the root of that, you know, has been a life-changing journey for me. And owning that, those truths that, hey, I'm not broken and I'm perfect and I'm loved and all of that, you know, that's where the real shift happens. So I invite everyone to just start going on that inquisitive journey and, you know, build more curiosity into, you know, the next binge you have or the next time, you know, cravings are driving you mad, you know, just being curious and taking note of what's going on.

Yeah, I love that, all of that too. I just, it's like, it's almost like you're in my head.

I knew we connected.

So final thing, Dani, if people want to connect with you online, we already talked about the Quit Sugar Summit, but where can they find you personally and and what are your social channels that you're on most, or where can they find your content?

Yeah, absolutely. So definitely come on over to my website, danieldame.com. I've got an incredible actual 3-part emotional eating video series there as well that you can download for free. So definitely come and grab that. And then you can find me on social media. Yeah, I'm on Facebook at Danielle Dame Coaching and on Instagram @danieldame. I also have a YouTube channel. Which is just my name as well, Danielle Dame, so you can find me on YouTube as well. Those are probably the best places to connect, and I would love to hear from anyone who resonated with our conversation today. Don't hesitate to reach out.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, and again, I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I really loved our conversation.

Me too. This was so much fun. Thanks, Cheryl.

Thank you.