Factors in Hair Loss, Role of DHT: 69

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. I am the founder of Heal, Nourish, Grow, Cheryl McColgan, and today I am joined by Moriah Shane, who, as you heard in his bio, is the CEO of a hair health company. But he has kind of made this his passion in life and he's going to share with us today some insights and things that we can possibly do to help hopefully make our hair a little bit healthier going forward. So welcome, Moriah. Could you just share with everybody kind of your background a little bit and how you got into this field around hair health?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me here today. I'm very happy to be here. So basically, here's how this— it happened organically, I should say. So just growing up, I'm from California. I'm still in California. And growing up in California, I've always been raised with the philosophy that everything our body needs to survive exists in nature. Like, the— we've— we have survived millions of years of evolution synergistically evolving with nature as we go. So when our bodies— and our bodies are designed to survive, we are designed to live and to thrive. So I've always had the approach that when something's non-optimal with my body, my goal is to make my body strong enough to handle that situation, you know, and that exists in nature. That's always where I go first is that area. How can I strengthen that area of my body so my body can fix what's going on? Now, hair loss is in my family. Every man in my family is totally bald.

I am—

I'm thrilled to have what I have because I should be— I should be like cue ball bald today. So when my father started losing his hair, we were like, oh, he was like, I wanna fix this, what's happening? And so we started looking around for remedies. And this was probably the '90s, I'd say mid-'90s in there. So we started looking around for solutions and remedies 'cause we're like, okay, so he's losing his hair and he's trying to fix it. And like everyone else does, and he was kind of panicking and stuff 'cause it's a big deal for, you know, people. And there was nothing there. There was nothing in the natural realm that really was game-changing. Like there was, there were, there were lots of stuff like rubbing onion on your head and, you know, little cures like that, but nothing really substantial that was like, this is gonna change my hair, this is gonna help it. So he went down the drug route, the popular route, the same drugs that were made in the '70s, the same drugs everyone's using today. He went down that route and he started getting sick. Started like, you know, his body started getting very tired. He, his immune system dropped. He actually started developing breasts. It started altering his hormones. And so he was like, this is not cool. This is not, this isn't, this isn't what I want. And we were all the same, like, no, no, you gotta, you gotta stop this. And my mother's from Italy. And so we have cousins in the Lake Como region and she was just talking to them casually about, you know, life and catching up. And she mentioned what's going on with my father. And they said, well, there's this little— there's this little pharmacy, this little lab they call pharmacy here that's, that's doing some kind of neat things in this area of, of hair loss in the natural realm and stuff. And she's like, oh, well, send some to me. So they sent it over and eventually we became their North American distributors because they work— it worked great. And we're like, oh, this is cool. And so we— that was our entrance into the That was our entrance into the hair loss world. Now, from that point, it was a matter of like, once you're in, then you start exploring and you start like realizing what you actually need and what you actually want. So once, once we got into it and we became distributors, then we, then we started studying and then we started figuring out like, what is this? What, what is the actual— what's the real issue? What's the real problem? And then And once we start looking at that, we start looking at like, because once we understood the real problem, we said, there's got to be a better solution because what we had worked, but it wasn't like amazing, but it worked, you know, but we're like, how do we get amazing? How do we get incredible? And that was the question that basically started our journey to where we are today.

That's fascinating. That's so wonderful that you found somebody in the family that had like this natural solution for you. And then obviously since then you've done a ton of research and a ton of studies. So before we go into the— like, eventually we'll obviously talk about why these ingredients work and kind of what you discovered along the way. But what is it that you've learned about just general hair health? So before we even go to hair loss, absolutely. What is it that makes a healthy head of hair? What, what is the kind of the normal functioning and how it works? Because I think a lot of people don't give a lot of thought to this, right? Like your hair just grows out of your head and kind of people take it for granted. But I think it'd be interesting to go into some of the— a little bit of the science behind it and kind of your understanding of how hair growth works.

Yeah, totally. And I, I like to keep things really simple. I don't— because I think, I think any, any understanding comes from simplicity. So So I just keep things very simple in this area. So when our hair grows, we have 3— we have— there's 3 stages. There's a growth, a resting, and a shedding phase. We all have this. It's totally natural. So what happens is the hair starts to grow and then it stops. And so you get your hair grows, it grows, it grows, then it stops. And that's the resting phase. And what's happening is underneath it, the hair is actually detaching from the follicle and the new hair is growing, and that new hair starts pushing that old hair out. So that old hair, it looks like it's still growing because it's still in the skin, but it's actually in the shedding phase. And then eventually it falls out and sheds, and a new hair comes out. And that's the continual cycle of hair. Totally natural, totally normal. We all— all mammals have that. Anything with hair has that cycle. Um, The part where it gets, where it becomes something to pay attention to is when there's all of a sudden more shedding than normal. You know, you start noticing more hair than normal. Now the big, like the big underlining factor is nourishing the follicle itself. And generally that's just done by blood flow. The blood's flowing to the follicle, the blood has all the nutrients the follicle needs. And the blood flow keeps the follicle strong and healthy and producing strong healthy hair. So in a nutshell, that's— that's really what it is on a simplest basis. If you never did anything for your hair and the body's just going as it's going, the blood's constantly be— being delivered to the follicle, delivering it all the nutrients it needs to continue its growth cycle. And then— but the problem is, is sometimes when people start losing their hair is that that blood flow to the follicle gets blocked and that's where the issue is.

And have you been able to discover— I mean, there are probably multiple, but the kind of the root cause of that, is it the blood flow? Is it nutrition? I'm sure it's a combination of factors, but I'd love to hear more about what you discovered actually causes that lack of blood flow.

Yeah, it's, it's— here's so in 98% of the cases, it's something called DHT. Now, the, the, the actual term is dihydrotestosterone, but everyone calls it DHT. If you Google hair loss, you'll see DHT, DHT, DHT. Now, what that is specifically is when your body breaks down the male hormone testosterone, it creates a byproduct, and that byproduct is DHT. And that's just, it's excrete it through the body. It's not necessarily a big deal. However, what happens is when it passes by the hair follicle, it gets stuck in a little pothole on the follicle. Now when people say hair loss is, is genetic, what's actually genetic are these potholes. This is an inherited trait. So you can inherit, you know, tons of these potholes, but if your body's producing very little testosterone, you're gonna be producing very little DHT, which means that the amount of time it takes for enough DHT to actually stop the blood flow is gonna be very long. So you might not see hair loss till very late in life. Or you can inherit very little of these potholes on the follicle and produce tons and tons of testosterone, which means you have tons of DHT, and then you're still gonna have hair loss even though maybe like no one else in your family has hair loss, but you might still have it because you're producing more testosterone than other people in your family. So it's those little potholes that are the determining factor. Now what happens is when the DHT gets stuck in the potholes over time, as more and more DHT gets stuck, it starts to cut the blood flow off to the follicle. So in doing that, less and less blood's delivered to the follicle and the follicle gets weaker and weaker and thinner and thinner and then eventually dies. And, and dead follicles when somebody's totally bald, like just shiny, shiny bald, That means the follicle has died.

So, okay. I have two follow-up questions around this. Yeah. So I think people hear testosterone and they automatically think of it as a male hormone, but it's actually really very important for women as well. So it may seem like since women have naturally lower testosterone that they might not deal with this problem as much. And that certainly seems to be the case. Women do still have hair loss, but not to the same degree that maybe men do from having higher testosterone. Is that pretty accurate?

That's very accurate. That's the reason why women will experience hair loss later in life or during menopause or during hormonal fluctuations or times of great stress because their— the balance of, of their hormones is just in flux. So a woman can have— may have inherited a bunch of these little potholes on the follicle, but they— I mean, potholes is not scientific, but it's a great, easy visual, you know what I mean? So they, they may have inherited a bunch of these little potholes, but because they're not producing a lot of testosterone, they're not seeing, you know, hair loss in their 20s or 30s. You know, takes till their 40s, 50s, 60s before they start to experience hair loss. But it is, it is when the body breaks down that, that reproductive hormone that we all have. 'Cause women, it actually, there's, it's not just in women, it's not just testosterone. There's other reproductive hormones that when they break down, they can produce DHT as well.

Okay, interesting. And the second follow-up question, and this is actually in relation to, I've been experiencing this myself lately, which is obviously one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the show. Yeah. But, uh, got, went to a dermatologist, had it checked out, and this was the explanation. And I find this to be such a poor explanation. So I would just love your insight on this, but— Sure. Uh, she said that sometimes your hair follicles just get tired and they quit working as well. And now when I was thinking about the way that you described the follicle over time, going to the completely dead phase, is there a way once the follicle is dead, or say it's just tired, if that's even a thing, is there a way to wake them back up again?

Okay, so, so just to, you know, keep it positive in terms of what you're— what your dermatologist is saying, what I would maybe interpret that as, there is a dormant phase. I wouldn't use tired necessarily. I don't think I wouldn't use that phrase, but there is a dormant phase. So when the follicle— but it's, it's different because the dormant phase may look like your follicle's dead. You may see scalp, you may have shiny, shiny baldness there, but before the follicle actually dies, it does stop producing hair. Because lazy implies that it will come back. Lazy implies like, oh, I'm just taking a break till the movie's over and then I'll go exercise, you know, or something like that. But the, uh, But a dormant, a dormant follicle is a phase before the follicle actually dies. It's a little— I haven't found anything conclusive in terms of how long a follicle lays dormant. I've seen everything from, you know, 6 months to 6 years. I haven't really found a conclusive, like, this is what a dormant follicle is. But once the follicle dies, then there's nothing can be done. A dead follicle is just dead. It can't be revived.

Okay, good to know. So maybe some of these therapies that we're going to talk about next, I mean, I don't know if there's any actual controlled studies of this, but there's certainly plenty of anecdotal evidence at the very least that certain things that maybe stimulate blood flow to your scalp, for example, can help with hair loss and obviously hair growth, kind of both ends of the spectrum there. Yeah, I think I remember reading that you had run into something with acupuncture and some herbal therapies. Can you share more about that?

I didn't. I didn't, but I can talk about it. Oh, great. Yeah. So, so in terms of like the idea of stimulating blood flow to the follicle, that, that's correct. You want, you want to do that. That's a good thing. By all accounts, that's a good thing. However, if the DHT is blocking that blood flow, it's still not gonna get to the follicle. Like the goal should be to get the DHT off the follicle. Like that— that's our goal. That's— that's what we— that's our approach because once you get the DHT off the follicle, then the blood can start flowing back to the follicle on its own. 'Cause otherwise, you're gonna be forcing the blood to the follicle which may or may not work. But you're still forcing it, which means whatever you're doing that's forcing the blood, you are now dependent on, which is why some, like a minoxidil kind of, minoxidil does that. If it's a, it's a vasodilator that forces blood to the follicle. So if you do see results, it's because you're getting, you're forcing the blood back to the follicle. But the second you stop, you know, it's, it's the drug that's doing it, or it's, it's that external cause that's doing it. It's not your body. So the second you stop doing that, you lose all results. So it's correct, you want the blood flowing to the follicle, but you really gotta get that DHT off the follicle so it can just start flowing on its own, and then your body's functioning the way it's meant to function, and it just keeps going.

Yeah, that makes more sense because that's what we always try to find out here is like root cause. And so if the root cause is the DHT, doing these external kind of blood flow things are really just a Band-Aid on the situation. It's not taking care of the root cause, which is the DHT.

Well, it's the DHT on the follicle because I know there's, there's also very popular DHT blockers that people take. I don't support that because I don't believe you should be altering your hormone levels. I believe our bodies are made— are— I mean, we've had so much evolution and growth and millions of years of our bodies developing that I think every little thing that you change affects another thing in the body. It's all related. So I don't believe in altering hormones at all. So what we do is we just get that DHT to come off the follicle and then we protect the follicle so future DHT can't build up on it. And then, so the DHT is still in your system doing whatever else is doing with your body, you know, but it's not, it's not suffocating the follicle and then the blood's flowing back to the follicle.

Yeah. And so that's what you found. You said, so when you found, you did find something that worked for your dad and it was kind of a preparation from Italy. But then once you started to dig into more, you said you want amazing. And I love that.

Right.

It was effective, but it wasn't perfect. So what took the, what were you able to find that kind of took it to that next level?

Okay. So basically what we started doing is, was we started just researching medical journals. Like once we understood the problem, So the thing is, is that the majority of the products that are being used for, for thinning hair were all made in the '70s, you know, and those were the same like popular, you know, drug products and prescription. I mean, it's all over-the-counter now, but that was all this. It's all the same stuff that's being used today. So when we started researching this, we're like, science did not go to sleep in 1970 in the researching of thinning hair. It just— that just didn't happen. But why? Is everything being used the same, the same product, you know, just repackaged, rebranded, but it's the same products. So we started just researching medical journals. We're like, what's happening? So we start researching medical journals around the world and being like, what's happening in laboratory studies? What tests are being done? Where, what's happening out there? And we started finding really exciting things with peptide complexes, amino acids, with stem cells, probiotics, all these incredible things. We're getting these results in laboratory studies, but they weren't in any products. So we basically found a bunch of studies that we were like, these are incredible. These are incredible natural ingredients that will have no adverse effects in the body but are getting amazing, amazing results. And so we found a lab here in California and we're like, listen, that specializes in this kind of field. And we're like, we have all these studies. We want to make a product that has all of these ingredients in it at the clinical strengths that are getting the results. And we want to combine it all into one product. Is that even possible as a, in a topical form? And, and it took a few years, but then we figured out how to do it. And then moving forward, that's been our approach with all our products we develop. Like, what's this? What, what do we want to achieve? What's the problem that's stopping us from achieving that? And then what is, what are the newest innovations out there that are handling that? Problem. And that's how we've moved forward with everything since then. So we moved everything to California. So now I make everything here in the US. You know, they're all ours. But that was, that was our approach. So now what we do is we're getting the DHT off the follicle. Primarily we're doing it with a very, very high-grade hyaluronic acid, which is found in your joints and your eyeballs and stuff. And a lot of face creams have it. It's very moisturizing. It's a little kind of slippery. We're using a very high concentration of it and what that does is it coats the follicle and allows the DHT to slide off. We also have things like— there's like zinc and— and manganese and stuff that kind of help dissolve. There's also things that like will help dissolve DHT, but that's the main thing 'cause it— it gets it to slide off the follicle. And then we get the blood flowing back to the follicle and then we just start bombarding it with stem cells, probiotics, amino acids. So we're rebuilding it from the bottom and we're also rebuilding it from the top, because what we found previous is that we were able to get the DHT off the follicle and the blood flowing back to the follicle, but the hair wasn't coming back strong enough and fast enough. And what we realized was that there was so much damage because a lot of people wait 15, 20, 30 years before taking any action. So there was a lot of damage and the follicle needed help. It needed— the hair needed help coming back. It needed help rebuilding faster and stronger. So that's where the introduction of the stem cells and the peptide complexes all came in is because we got the blood flowing back to it, but then we're also helping fortify that, fortify the rejuvenation as well.

Yeah, that makes sense. And now that you've sort of figured out that combination, what kind of results are you seeing? I mean, do you mostly test these things on yourself? Do you do lab testing? How do you find out, like, what's being the most effective for the products?

Yeah, well, what we do is we— so every— everything we pick— I mean, that's a good question because we actually haven't done any— I haven't done any, like, official double-blind studies where you send it off and they do the whole thing. That's coming up. But what we— so what we do is we get— we find the products that are getting the results in all the lab studies because they do all that. They do all the studies and stuff. And then we— so the, the actual individual ingredients are getting the results, and then we put them all in a single product. And we're very, very meticulous that it has to be at the same strength that is getting the results. And then, um, and then it's just photos, customers, you know, because we know, we know in theory that the products are going to work, you know, that's at least with the first one. Now we're pretty confident that it, it works. But with the first release, which we We started making in 2013 and actually released in 2016. By the time we released it, we had enough people using it before it was officially released that we knew like this concept is gonna get results, is gonna make a serious change. And then, and then now, as of now, we just have a bunch of pictures. We have a bunch of pictures, we have testimonials, and all our pictures are clients who send it in. We don't, we don't actually do the pictures ourselves. So that's, that's really how we have been tracking the success and the progress and the success rate. We will, we, I will get around to doing the official like double blind stuff.

Yeah. And, but what you said makes a lot of sense to me because whenever I have something going on my, my, in my health, you know, it's one of those things where you, you wanna do one thing so you kind of know what works, but I take the other approach. I read all the the research on it and whatever. If I find 5 things that work, I'm going to be doing all 5 personally.

I know.

I like the way that you approach that.

That's kind of how, like, I've always been the type of person that, like, when, when you make, like, a shake in the morning, like, you just kind of open the fridge and you put everything in, you know, like, I don't want just spinach. I think I want spinach, garlic, ginger. Oh, look, there's some kale. There's— oh, there's a carrot that blends up. Okay, throw it all in. You know? So it's like, that's kind of the same approach that I take to making our products. Throw it all in.

But they are, they're backed obviously by research. You found these things by like going through PubMed and everything. And it was so ingredients like that. And then I think the other thing that you said that is really important is you do it in the strength that's been shown to work in the study.

Right.

Because quite often people will get onto a particular ingredient, say hyaluronic acid, for example.

Yeah.

And then it'll just have it on the packaging, but it doesn't mean that it's in an amount that's actually going to cause any changes or be effective. So I like the fact that you're like going with the clinical strength. That's amazing.

Yeah, that's so, that's so important because, you know, because you, you, you have, you only have to have a minuscule amount of something to be able to put it on the, you know, on your label and promote it as, hey, it contains this, it contains that. But you know, I want, I want to change people's lives, you know? I mean, it's— I mean, I know, I know it's just hair loss and I know it's— I know we're just, you know, it's a cosmetic thing, but I really want to make a difference. I want to, you know, I want to have an impact. And, and a way that I can do that is to make sure that it's really helping people with their self-confidence and their self-esteem and their ability to feel confident that they can make choices and decisions and get results. And so that I feel there's a responsibility there to help, to help that, because I know when somebody feels confident in decision that they made and they see a positive result, they feel confident that they can go out and like make more decisions and get more positive results. And, you know, and, and, and it matters how you look, you know, not in a vain way, you know, people, I say that and like, No one should be a jerk, you know what I mean? Because when you say vain, people think like, oh, jerk. Like, no one should be a jerk, you know? But like, when you, when you put on like a great jacket or like a beautiful dress, you're like, oh yeah, today's the day. It's happening today, you know? Versus when you are just eating chips and sweat clothes that you've been wearing all weekend, you're like, maybe I'll take a nap, you know? And that's just the physical. Affecting the mental. So it is subjective, but it does— they do play off each other, you know. And when you feel confident and good, when you look at yourself in the mirror and you feel like, yeah, I look good, you, you, you walk out differently, you know, you present differently, you communicate to people differently. So that's why I think it's so important is that that you, the individual, feel great about how you look. And, and you shouldn't have to think about your body, you know, you shouldn't have to think about your hair. Because if you have attention on your body, if you have attention on your hair, if you have attention on the way you look, that's attention that you're not putting out into the world, you know. And when you put that attention out into the world, you get that attention back and you create, you know, strength and power and positivity. And, you know, you uplift. But if you're going out and, you know, you got 30% of your attention on yourself, you know, you're going to hunch down a little bit. You might not look someone in the eye. You might not give that random stranger that smile that's going to make their day better. You know, you— there's, there's, there's a difference there. So, so it's important for me that this is, this is a way that I can help that I found at this point that I can contribute, you know. So that's why it's an important— it's important that, that the products actually have an effect, a positive change.

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. There's so much psychology to— I always say, look better, feel better, because it's that same thing. And a lot of people really experience this in a huge way during the pandemic because they're no longer going to the office, they're no longer getting dressed for work, they may not shower for a couple days.

Right.

And all of that really so strongly contributes to depression. So same thing when your hair is causing you stress, like you said, it's taking your attention away from being in the present moment and being able to be, you know, fully shining your light in the world. So I really love that that is your goal because, you know, again, it's not just about vanity, it's, you know, taking care of yourself in a certain way. And feeling good in your own skin, whatever that is for you, whether it's your hair, your weight, you know, it doesn't matter if you're technically overweight, underweight. It's like you've got to feel a certain way about yourself just to be fully present and doing good work in the world. So, yeah, I really appreciate that.

And you can be bald too. This isn't about having hair or not having hair. This is about you feeling great about yourself. So if you're— if you shave your head and you're bald, or you're thinning and have a bald spot, but you feel great about it and you love it and you love the way you look, then that's awesome and that's great and that's correct. But if you have something that's taking your attention units and is making you retract just a little bit from the world, let's fix that and get over that and then get you back out strong, focused, Yeah, love that.

Are there, as we come to the sort of the end here, are there any new products that you have coming up or things that you're particularly excited about that you're working on lately? If it's anything that you can share, I mean, not to give away any secrets or anything.

No, no, we actually just released a new product this week that is, it's, it's, it's, uh, I love it. I love it. Because so what, so one of the things we found is that when somebody's hair is thinning or, you know, or damaged or weak, this can be from like styling or dyes or anything like that. When the hair is weakened or damaged, any kind of non-optimum scalp condition is going to impede healthy growth. It just is. Is when the hair is damaged, it's harder for it to grow if your scalp is in a non-optimum condition. Now, in our current environment, there's a lot of toxins in the world. There's a lot of toxins, there's a lot of pollutants, there's, there's hard water, there's cleaning chemicals, there's residue from, from styling products, from old shampoos. There's just dirt and soot in the air. And all this stuff accumulates on the scalp and starts clogging up the pores. And it just does. And it gets to the point where shampooing doesn't help. Now, when you start clogging up the pores and start clogging up the follicle, not only is the hair difficult to grow, but it also can lead to inflammation, which can lead to other issues such as like itchiness, flakiness, dryness, sores, scabs, all kinds of, all kinds of non-optimum things that most people don't want on their head. So we released a— it's a scalp exfoliator. It's called the Accelerator, and What it is, the goal, the goal is to clean the pores and clean the follicles of the scalp so that not only can healthy hair exist, so you're creating like a fertile ground for strong growth, but you're also handling the scalp. You're also rebalancing the pH of the scalp in terms of getting all that, all that excess buildup off the scalp. So the scalp can be a strong supportive environment for your hair. And it's great. It's just something you use in the shower a couple of times a week before shampooing, massage it in. And there's so many— there's so many— I mean, amazing. It's amazing. There's so many incredible ingredients in it. There's, you know, I mean, we got zinc, copper, ashwagandha root, blueberry. We use ground olive seeds. You know, everything's all natural. There's— there's There's tons of botanical extracts, vegetable extracts. There's— it's pretty exciting in terms of like what it actually can do for the hair and the scalp. There's caffeine for blood flow. There's all these great things. And it also will completely condition your hair too. It's a great leave-in conditioner as well.

Sounds amazing.

Yeah, we just— we just—

we just—

we just released it. I'm very excited about it.

It's brand new.

We've been working on it for a very long time. In terms of like getting it, getting it to the point we feel really good about it.

Awesome. Okay. Well, and if people want to learn more about what you do or learn more about the products, are you active on social? Can you just share with people what's the best way to get in touch and where they can find you?

Yeah, the best way is to just go to our website, morehairnaturally.com. Now, here's, here's the thing, though, on our, on our website, you You know, people can go and they can buy whatever they want and that's great. A lot of people just read it. They get an idea like, oh, I need this, I need that. But the truth is that when the, when the hair's damaged, it's not a quick fix. You know, it's not something like it's not going to take a week, it's not going to take a month. It's a good 3 to 6 months before people really see a change because the goal is to handle the follicle so it can start to grow its own hair again and not have you dependent on something. And there's a certain healing process that has to occur. So some people see results very early, some people much later. But it is— there is a little process there. So a lot of people go to the website and they just order from there. But then also on every page of the website, on the top and bottom, I have a phone number and people can call and get a free consultation and they'll talk to someone who's trained in, in hair. And basically the goal is The goal is two things. One is to discover the root cause of your thinning and then sort of explain to you what that is. So you understand the, the problem so you can better define what your solution will be. And then from there, we will, we do, we'll offer you our products. If we think we can help you, we will offer your products, but also we'll give you other suggestions. Like maybe it's a diet change, maybe it's just a momentary, like, Maybe there's something in your life that momentarily just like kicked you into an excessive shedding phase and it will pass. You know, maybe, maybe it's something else. But our goal there is to help people feel confident about whatever choice they make going forward, whatever action they decide to take, they feel confident about it. So we do recommend that people call if they're— if they'd like to. Omnis, it's free. You know, I have a team that's just what they do is that we're just, it's just a support team to help people, you know, feel like, feel good about whatever choice they make and know that they can make a choice and to sort of encourage an action, be it with us or somebody else, but just encourage an action because it's all about action. It's all about, you know, people can research their life away with no results, you know, and it's, that's the hard thing because hair loss doesn't get better on its own. So like there's, there's the research factor, but sometimes people use research as an excuse not to act. So we want to get people to act in whatever capacity.

And like, yeah, and like you said, the longer you wait, I mean, this has been happening to me for a few years. It just recently got worse, probably because, like you said, a stressful event. We moved about 6 months ago. But I mean, you don't want to wait. It just keeps— like, mine is just keep getting worse over the years, and it's like, I should have probably more actively sought some kind of solution prior to now. So I am really appreciative that you are out there in the world educating and doing this work and offering something that can really help people get out of this cycle and sounds like attack the root cause. So thank you so much for sharing all that with us today.

Oh, thanks so much for having me.