Healing Journeys: Interstitial Cystitis and Cancer: 65

Hello everyone, welcome to the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. And if you have been listening for a while, you might have noticed that I have been a little bit absent. And some of you know that I moved out to Utah, so the podcast has been on a little bit of a hold, but we are back. And I am excited to kick off being back on the air officially with two lovely women that I have with here, uh, here with me today. And that is Gina and Sherry, and they will get the privilege of me being maybe slightly rusty, but I think it should all be fine. So welcome to both of you. Um, before we get started, I'm just going to share with the audience, uh, I think— I don't think I've ever had actually two guests at the same time on the show before. Um, so that'll be really fun. And these two ladies have been like best friends since high school, so we're going to hear all this really interesting backstory between the two of them. Um, I'm gonna let Sherry start. So Sherry, if you're watching on video, hopefully their names show up, but Gina has the lovely dark brown, luscious hair, and Sherry has the lovely blonde, luscious hair, which we'll get to later in the podcast, probably why that is and why I'm mentioning that. But Sherry, why don't you get started and just tell everybody a little bit about your health journey and how you got interested in being in this space and sharing your story?

Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I mean, like you, you know, what happens in life is sometimes we have a very serious health scare. And that could also be the biggest blessing ever, because for me it was, you know, when I was 30 years old and I was on maternity leave from a corporate— the corporate world. And while I was pregnant, I felt a lump right here. And they just said, oh, it's probably just your thyroid, no big deal. You know, we'll look at it when you, you know, like maybe 3 months or so after you give birth. Well, right after my son was born, I just, you know, you just kind of feel in your gut like something's not right. Like, it's way big. I need— I went in there like immediately after he was born. And 2 weeks after he was born, they diagnosed me with Hodgkin's lymphoma. And I had to go immediately into chemo and radiation. And they had to bound my breasts from stop from breastfeeding. And, and just, it just like hit me. And I didn't know anything, you know, because I wasn't really studying the natural health space or anything. So I just didn't know anything. And I just went into it. And it's scared me because my brother had that same exact cancer, Hodgkin's lymphoma, and he got a secondary cancer from all the harsh treatment, the chemo and radiation. He got— by the time he was 25, he got like a, like, from the radiation here, he got like a cancer in his glands. And then he ended up passing away. So he had— that already happened. So I just went into chemo radiation. I was freaked out. And as soon as that was done, I just did a deep dive into natural health. I said, I have to change my genetic expression. I got to figure out how to get this stuff out of my body. I need to change my life because I'm a mom now, and moms are warriors, you know. And so I needed to be here for the long haul. And so, um, that's when it started. And that was like, I just needed to do things, you know. I went back to college, took photography as a hobby, and I dove into natural health. And so, um, and then all these blessings started to birth from that, you know. I, I really like like you, Cheryl, 'cause I know about your health journey. Getting rid of carbs was really one of the best things I ever did. Sugar and carbs, and just a really clean, healthy diet. I would say I probably eat, I would say close to paleo with full-fat dairy kind of way of eating. And it suits me. And I've done a lot of work with functional medicine doctors. You kind of learn about your own body and self. And I made homemade bone broth to help nourish my body. Has a lot of trace minerals, a lot of collagen in there. More collagen to help rebuild my body from all that chemo and radiation destruction. And then also make regular detoxing, you know, hot yoga, sweating it out, far infrared, hot Epsom salt baths. You just like regularly put the toxins out and regularly put the nutrients in, you know, and it just changed my life. You know, my energy went up. My, I I was just like, wow, my ideal weight went into place. You know, all these things. Like, I wasn't trying to be trim and, you know, look my best. I was just trying to feel my best and have the best health. And then by doing that, all those other benefits come along, you know. So, you know, and so now it's been, you know, 24 years and I, you know, I'm healthy as a horse. You know, I, you know, it's just like I've hardly ever get sick. I mean, I can't even, I think one, like a, a cold like once in the past 15 years. You know, and I just, I feel so good. You know, I am so grateful for having cancer and going through that because it's really educated me. And I love to talk about it with people like you, Cheryl, and, you know, all of us in the space. It's just a beautiful thing on how we're helping other women mostly, and men, you know, stand beside them through their health journeys because it's real. It's real. I mean, if you don't take care of yourself, it catches up to you, you know, in one way or another. And it's amazing how powerful food is, how food and nutrition make a huge difference.

Yeah.

Cheryl, wow.

And sunlight and, you know, a lot of things. Yeah.

We'll go more into that. And before we move on to Gina, just a couple of follow-up questions there. First of all, I'm so sorry about your brother. And my family is strongly affected by cancer too. I don't know if that's in my bio. Bio in the about part on my website, but that probably should be, um, because again, you said, and hearing your story now, I feel the same way, like a lot of, uh, similarities in our backgrounds. But to kind of follow up, so you said that's been quite a long time ago now, which is awesome that you've been cancer-free for that long and look amazingly healthy, like just really vibrant. Can you kind of go back to that time and just for people who might be experiencing something similar, um, you said you kind of did a deep dive into the research. You started just really trying to take care of yourself a lot better. What were maybe some of the very first things that you implemented and things that you thought were the most helpful when you're in that very, uh, critical stage of healing from cancer? So now, you know, you're 20-some years out and you're still doing all these healthy behaviors, but in that first year after the diagnosis and you found out these things and you were dealing with the chemo and the radiation, what were some of the things that you found most helpful?

Um, gosh, reading, you know, reading a lot of books on natural health. It's interesting because, you know, when I was like in high school, I remember I was, I was, it was really into this one book called Fit for Life by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, talked about food combining natural health. And, and, and I, you know, and, and now that this cancer happened, it really, you know, because I was never— I was a kid, I never really stuck to it. I always had a You know, like in the corporate world, let me just paint a picture. I'd get up, get ready, go to work. On the way to work, go through the coffee drive-through, get a café mocha loaded with sugar and whipped cream and a chocolate chip scone warmed up. And I'd eat that every day on the way to work. I'd work like a maniac. And about 3 o'clock, I'd eat lunch, come home, you know, eat dinner, have a glass of wine, and never exercise, never get any sun, never get any fresh air. And you know, I changed. And so, so I, I really implemented those natural health, even that I learned a little bit in high school. Um, what I craved, it was interesting, my body, I could feel my body craving healthier choices, you know. So I would, I read a lot. I immediately just started eating more, like buying organic fruits and vegetables, understanding. Um, I tried to go a little bit like no meat, but I couldn't do that with myself. You know, I learned about so many things. Like, I'm a type O blood positive, so I don't— they say that that's a kind of more of a meat eater, you know. So I— so like I said, like, I figured out for me the paleo with full-fat dairy works for me, you know. And it was interesting too, because when I got rid of all the carbs, I always had a mucus issue, like sinus infection, mucus issue. And when I was a kid, the doctors would say, oh, you have— you're allergic to dairy. No, I'm not. Because as soon as I got rid of all the carbs, all my mucus went away. I have never had an issue and I have never had a sinus infection. And I eat high quality, you know, like I love raw dairy. Raw dairy has so much more nutrients in it with enzymes and all that stuff. So I have like heavy cream raw dairy in my coffee every morning. I mean, you know, I eat high quality aged cheeses and, you know, I have no issue with mucus. You know, it's just interesting, you know. And I think reading different, from different functional medicine type experts and different podcasts, and you learn. I learned from people like you, Cheryl, like what's worked for you. I've learned from functional medicine doctors. You know, it's just really doing that deep dive. And, you know, it's evolving. I'm still learning because I just, I'm just going through perimenopausal, and that's been a whole nother world. I've gotten my, you know, my arms around, you know, I'm starting to feel amazing again because I started to go down the hill and I realized my hormones were done. So now I've raised them back up with bioidentical hormones. Getting my iron back up, 'cause I lost iron from the perimenopausal phase, 'cause I went to heavy bleeding. I didn't, you know, I'm like, what's that about? You know? So you just, and you start feeling different. So I'm feeling amazing, you know, about that. You just learn, you know, and everybody's different. Everyone is so different, you know? I even have the MTHFR gene mutation. I don't know if you've heard of that. But that, you know, you have to take methylated vitamin B, you have to stick with folate vitamin B options and not folic acid. And, you know, so I got that back balanced and that— and when you have that gene mutation too, you don't detox as easy as other people. So you really have to make sure you're doing a lot of regular detox, you know, stuff like I do. I'm back doing hot yoga. Which I'm thrilled because I literally sweat buckets, like buckets. And I, I mean, I drink water like this much. I put the trace minerals in there and everything. And when I'm done with class, I'm like, I'm so happy. I don't know how to explain. I just feel so good because my body just needs to detox, and it doesn't detox as easy as other people because of that gene mutation, which, you know, and it's great because like the functional medicine doctor that I go to now, you you have to, you see, you don't put your health in one person's hands. It's in your hands. You're the director of your health, you know? You use a whole team of health avenues between individual people like you, Cheryl, where I learn from, and functional medicine doctors, and my own experience, and nutrition, and you just put it all together. So when I go to see my functional medicine doctor, I co-collaborate with her. Okay, let's check all the blood. She knows a bunch of stuff I learned from. And I tell her, okay, I also want to check this. I also want to do this. Are you familiar with this? And then, you know, we work as a team. So you have to, you really have to trust yourself. You know, you have to be the center of your own health, like be your own director, you know? So yeah.

And I think nothing points that out more. Absolutely. Nothing points that out more obviously than you, you know, you didn't wait 3 months because you felt something was wrong with your body. And thank goodness you went right away because you just never know. You know, how quickly those processes go on. Um, and we'll have to come back to the hot yoga at some point because I feel like you must be like long lost twin or something because I actually taught hot yoga for years.

That's what I was saying, Cheryl.

No, I think you might be my sister or something.

I don't know. We have to like ask our— well, ask some parents what's going on here. But anyway, I think it's a good segue and a good break that we'll go on to Gina's story, and then at some point I'll have you two kind of go back and forth a little bit with some of your, like, kind of way-back history, because I just think that would be kind of entertaining for people. But Gina, it would be great now if you could please share, you know, some of your health journey. And then after that, we'll kind of go into how you guys know each other.

Sure.

Yeah. So I, as a child and into my teens, suffered with getting chronic bladder infections. And so So I was constantly being put on antibiotics. I have a condition called interstitial cystitis, and a lot of people don't know what that is, but it's basically the lining in your bladder is super sensitive. And so you're more prone to get bladder infections, but you can also feel like you have one when you don't. And so in my early 20s, I had a urologist who just put me on a daily dose of antibiotics. And it just destroyed my gut. So between dealing with the IC and now the gut issues, I was just a wreck. So I had to, you know, be my own advocate because it was just destroying me, the antibiotics. So I kind of took matters into my own hands as well, especially after going to a urologist and them wanting to prescribe a medication that is now off the market because it destroys people's livers. And I didn't really know anything. I was, you know, by that time I was like, oh, my early 30s and, you know, 2 little kids and they wanted me to go in and get my blood checked every 6 months. And I'm like, well, why is that? And they're like, well, because you're on that medication, it can be kind of hard on your liver. And so I'm like, this, this isn't something I want to do. And so I started to dive into how can I heal myself? And so that's when I started finding out, you know, like what was going on with my gut and it was the antibiotics that was causing all the bloating and distension and pain. And then what can I also do to help the pain in my bladder on a daily basis? And conventional medicine was not helping me because they just wanted to give me these, these prescriptions. And so I went on to a website for interstitial cystitis and I started reading all that kind of information and educating myself on the dos and don'ts and, and like the foods that could irritate. And which I was taking cranberry forever. And that was one of the things for for someone with interstitial cystitis, you don't want to take cranberries, very acidic and it bothers them. So, you know, learning and educating myself along the way was the biggest thing of how I have transformed my life with the pain. I mean, I had chronic pain with my bladder every single day. And come to find out, like, one of the things and just like listening to my body and trying to figure it out, was clothing. The clothing that I would wear. And, you know, and, you know, we went through that phase of— I don't remember— all the low jeans, the super low-rise jeans. Oh my gosh, if they ever bring all those back and don't have normal size jeans, I will wear sweatpants the rest of my life because those jeans killed me. Anything that just— and so that's why I started learning, like, when, um, I would wear sweats, I would be fine. And then I put my jeans on and I wouldn't be fine. And I'm like, hello, there's something going. So back to that whole thing of listening and paying attention to your body. And as simple as the clothing that I was wearing was causing my bladder to spasm. So, um, and then there's a fine line of drinking enough water or drinking too much water and then causing my bladder to spasm. So, um, I also had to get into this, um, mental space of of talking myself down of when my bladder was having spasms and I was in a situation where I couldn't put an ice pack on or heating or whatever, you know, and really having to like mentally think about it calming down and relaxing. And so I was getting into talking to my body to make my body respond. And, you know, do what it needed to do so that I could feel good. So it's, it's definitely a journey. And it's— I'm just so grateful that there's people out there that want to share their stories and share this information. And that's what, what made Cheryl and I so passionate about, you know, the things that we've gone through. And then, then to follow that up with all the gut stuff and then having to go through that journey. Because in my late 30s and 40s, it was just a mess. And, you know, so I had gotten the IC under control, but now I needed to focus on healing my gut. And, um, and that's, you know, we went into what we did to do that, you know, with the collagen and, um, just health, you know, fixing the leaky gut and all of that, that antibiotics did to destroy me.

So, so before—

that's my health journey.

Before we go on, yeah, before we go more on to the, um, the gut health part, I'm really curious about the cystitis part because like you said, not a lot of people know what it is. I think I've barely heard in passing something briefly about it in the past, but because I like to give people kind of, you know, actionable tips on this show since it is kind of an unusual thing, when you started going that down that journey, I heard you say that number one, you were talking to yourself. So a lot of like self-awareness or probably almost like meditative in a way, like just bringing bringing your energy sort of to that area and learning sort of a, you know, it's kind of an involuntary organ we don't think about much, but usually if you bring your awareness, like if you're in yoga class or you're lifting weights or whatever, if you bring your awareness to a certain body part, you can definitely affect the way that that functions. So that's one thing I heard you say. And then the clothing that you're wearing, were there any other thing— and the cranberry juice. So certain dietary things. Was there anything else that you can remember thinking of that would be an actionable tip if somebody is struggling with this right now and might be seeing the title on the podcast, which I'll probably put that in the title now because since it is kind of an unusual thing, um, as long as that's okay with you, obviously. But, um, you know, what would they— what else could they take— what else could they take away? Is there any other tip that you might have or thing that you learned along the way?

Oh gosh, yes, there's so much. And you have to kind of gauge it and see what bothers you and what doesn't because everybody is so different, right? And so some of the things that I read on the, um, website, I'm like, oh no, I need to take that out and take that out and take that out. And you just, you kind of have to figure it out. But, um, so definitely the cranberry and, and juices and sugars were the biggest thing for me. Anything that was going to cause inflammation. Um, and so some things also that were acidic, um, might bother me more than others. Like, I could eat spicy food and salsas and tomatoes, didn't bother me at all. But the cranberry I couldn't do that. And anything that was on a daily basic basis that was acidic, I could not do. And so carbonation is a big no-no. Caffeine is a big no-no. But, you know, now I can tolerate more caffeine because I have healed my bladder more. And the biggest thing I can contribute to the healing of my bladder was aloe vera. And it has to be processed in such a way. And it's not— there's a couple of different ways to do it, but like a freeze-dried. I actually take like a glyconutrient that has aloe vera in it. And I have for 15 years. And I did that in lieu of doing the medication that they've since taken off the market that would have destroyed my liver. And so that was so, so healing to, to my bladder. And then also when I added collagen into my, my diet daily, it— I did that for actually hair, skin, nails kind of thing. And then I realized, oh my gosh, my gut is feeling so much better. And then also was helping my bladder because all those tissues, right, it gets in there and it binds and heals and connects all that stuff. So, um, those things, uh, for sure the clothing, really be, be cognizant of what bothers you because like I mentioned those low-rise jeans but also the high-rise now, like anything that's too high and I don't know if it just pushes down, I don't know, it's crazy. But I have a sweet spot of where something's comfortable and a lot of times, you know, like even too tight of a, like a yoga pant or something like that. And so I, I hear from a lot of women that suffer with bladder issues, I'm like, how many hours a day are you in yoga pants? Um, because that can cause an issue. So, um, yeah, well, that was fantastic. Did I answer all those questions?

Yes. No, that's— I mean, that's going to be such great information for anybody who happens upon this and has this issue in their life. Um, so, and I want to come back to the gut health, and a lot of people I'm sorry, go ahead. No, you go first.

I was just going to say a lot of people don't realize they have interstitial cystitis because they just think that they're like, I think I have a bladder infection. I went and I tested negative, or now there's those home kits. And so that's one of the key indicators is if you don't actually have an infection, it hasn't gotten to that point yet. But the Spasming is what if it doesn't get under control. And that's where this brain comes in, like meditating and try to talk to it. I know it sounds crazy to help yourself to relax because it's a muscle, right? And so when it's spasming and it's tight, so trying to think about relaxing. And then there are things that you can do externally. Like I would freeze a water bottle. And sit there with it, you know, on my abdomen and help to, to relax that, that muscle. And so that was comforting. And just being able to share that with people is, is important because I've struggled with this. My earliest memory of having pain was in the fourth grade. So it sometimes it doesn't affect women until after childbirth, or, um, you know, later on in when they're going through menopause, perimenopause. But some people struggle from the time they're a kid, like I did.

That's a shame that you had to deal with that for so long, but glad that it seems to be more under control now. And I think it's wonderful that people just hearing this, at some point they might— if they ever have that trouble, they might not have to suffer for long because they'll know that it actually is something that can be dealt with and that you can sort of control in some way, luckily without a really toxic pill that we get from the pharmacy. So that's good to know.

Yes.

Before we go on to the gut health stuff, because the collagen is a big part of this story and I definitely want to get to that. But before that, I would love for you guys to share. I think you said that you've known each other since high school. So how long have you been friends? How did you get to know each other back in school if you happen to remember that? I can't really remember exactly how I remember my one friend from high school that I still stay in touch with. But if you can remember that, that would be awesome to hear about. And then we'll move into present day, how you have created this awesome partnership and taken both of your health journeys and kind of combined it to create a company that is now really helping people and putting out some amazing products. So whoever wants to go first about meeting in high school?

Well, yeah, we met in— well, back then we called it junior high, junior high school, 7th, 8th, and 9th. Grade. Yeah, we were both in leadership. That's how we met, for the most part. It's a small town back in the day, and, you know, there's only one high school back when we grew up. There's a lot of high schools there now, they've grown. But, uh, yeah, we just were in leadership class, and we, you know, we were good friends all through junior high and high school. Um, and we, uh, we stayed in touch, but, you know, you, you go and you get married. Well, as a matter of fact, I introduced her to the love of her life.

Yes.

So we were in high school, we were working at Gold's Gym. I met a group of kids and one of them was Greg and total handsome dude. And I'm like, you have to meet my friend Gina. And so he came down to Gold's Gym while she was working with me. And then, you know, the rest is history. And yeah, they've got two beautiful boys that are gorgeous. And I always tell them that I'm responsible for them. And he's a, he's a wonderful man. They have a beautiful marriage. And, you know, she's very blessed with that. And so I feel I'm really happy that, that I could be a part of that. And yeah, and so we both went on with our lives and we started to reconnect again. I remember when Facebook became popular, you know, everybody kind of reconnected, you know, from high school. And we just have a lot in common. We share the same faith. We love being a mom. We are both health nut nerds from our own health journeys. And so we just started talking all the time. You know, we just had so much in common. We just re-bonded as close, really close friends again. And, um, you know, and then that's when we, you know, started to talk about, you know, I always knew I wanted to do something in health related. For a business. And, and I did that because, like I said, I took up photography and natural health right when I got cancer. So I accidentally turned photography into a business, you know, and that's kind of what I did raising my kids while being a health nut. And that was a blessing. And I knew I wanted to take the health and transform it. So collagen was— is a really are some of our favorite brands, they were starting to source from all over the world and unregulated areas and kind of not, you know, you, you couldn't guarantee there wasn't heavy metals and, you know, kind of laden with some toxins, which is important because collagen is one of those supplements you really need to take every day in order to see the difference and see it build up to youthful levels. You do not want to put something in your body every day if it's laced with heavy metals at a certain level and all that stuff and pesticides and glyphosate, you have to be very careful. So that's, you know, we really started to source. We've been working on this since late 2017, you know, where the sourcing and everything. And Gina was just literally in there with me from day one and we just decided to do it together. And, you know, and that's why we— so our collagen that we offer is from 100% grass-fed and finished finished cows. Because you could say grass-fed, it could be grass-fed and then corn-fed, which is where all the glyphosate and all that issue comes in. So you want to be 100% grass-finished. You also want to know that you are clean of glyphosate and pesticides, that you're— the area in which the cattle's being raised naturally, there's no, you know, land right next door using glyphosate where it blows over on there. You know, we don't— you have to make sure it's, it's really clean and We're also Prop 65 certified, which is just in California. But those, those are very strict requirements to keep, you know, really minimal or zero trace, you know, of lead or anything like that, or heavy metals or glyphosate or pesticides. So we're very proud of that. And it's very clean. And we also stick to types 1 and 3, which is 90% of the— what's the collagen in our body. And with sourcing from this to the 100% grass-fed, more nutrient animals, it's really easy to control that. You know, a lot of the other types you have to branch out and get from chicken or fish or marine and stuff like that. And those are a little harder to regulate. And again, the most— the 90% of the collagen is types 1 and 3 that's in our body, you know, and that really moves the needle. So So like our collagen is so clean. Literally my joints feel amazing, you know, because it's like if you don't take your collagen for a while and as you get older, your joints hurt, especially if you're used to working out, you know, I've done a lot of different, you know, I've done many triathlons and CrossFit and stuff. So, you know, you need to make sure you're taking care of your joints as you age. So that really makes a difference. And then we stumbled upon really, because we both enjoy coffee. So, and coffee is one of the most pesticide-driven crops. And so we, you know, we sourced very clean, top 1% of coffee beans in the world, all organically grown, no mycotoxins. And in addition with the mushrooms, because the mushrooms, you know, I know a lot of people are hearing about that. They have a lot of healing properties. And what we love about the chaga and the lion's mane specifically is that it really helps with the brain, the cognitive, function of the brain and the clarity, the mental clarity. And they use it for Alzheimer's too, to help regenerate, you know, memory recall and the neurotransmitters. And so lion's mane, you know, has been phenomenal. And chaga has a lot of gut healing and immunity and stress management support. But here's the thing, like, with, with products that we take, I'm very picky. I like, I like to minimize the stuff that I take, but I also want to maximize the, like, the the potency of it and the cleanliness of it. So what I love about our coffee is the lion's mane and the chaga, they have over 600 milligrams per mushroom of each one. And that's a therapeutic dose. Like, for example, with lion's mane, they use, in the clinical studies, they use between 500 and 750 milligrams of it daily to start seeing the benefits. A lot of, you know, a lot of brands, if you actually look in or ask them and you look at the bottom line, there are only 300 or less of lion's mane and chaga per serving. You know, so you can have maybe, I don't know, 20 different mushrooms, but if they're all low dosages, it's hard to, for your body to have enough to really move the needle, if that makes any sense. So it's better to have, you know, a therapy. I only like 1 cup of coffee. I don't wanna drink 2 cups of coffee or 3 cups of coffee so I can get like the therapeutic dose of the mushroom extract, you know? And our mushrooms are obviously grown. I don't know, I say obviously, but In order for it to be high quality and potent, you want it to grow on the flowering body of the mushrooms and be organic and here and harvested here in the United States. So we're very, very picky on the products that we offer. And we want it to make sure it's moving the needle. So it's not like the latest fad or like what's selling or like, you know, we can say all these things to, you know, be more gimmicky to or try to figure out how we can get a bigger profit margin. We're more about— we're people first because we care about our health and our products. We take every day and we want to— friends and family, you know, and all, all of you out there, like, it's from our kitchen to your kitchen, you know. We want to give you nutrients. We want to make you happy. We're, we're here for you. We're here to serve people and we want to help you with your health. We want to share with you, you know, the truth about our product and why we chose what we, we chose, you know. So, and we're both into that, you know. We, we have a lot of integrity, both, both Gina and me. So, um, that's important to us, you know, to have products that really, really move the needle. We won't sell anything that doesn't move the needle, or we, we take with that, we don't take personally, you know.

Yeah, that's, that's why one reason—

does that answer your question?

Absolutely. And one reason why, when I got, um, your kind of pitch about being on the show, I, you know, I'm very picky too. This is why people come to my site, because I'm always looking for, is it made in a GMP facility, which is good manufacturing practices if you haven't heard of that before, and are they third-party tested for toxins, for all the things that you mentioned, glyphosate, which is like pervasive in everything now. And a lot of companies don't do that. And there are so, so, so many supplements on the market that don't test for any of those things that aren't that high quality. And so really, um, I was so thrilled to find out about your brand and to learn about all the ways that you test and all the things you're doing to ensure quality. So I'm glad that you shared all of that with everyone. And as a follow-up Gina, when you were taking— so obviously you guys, you had your husband all along, apparently, from Cheryl. But when you reconnected on the business part, you had already been taking collagen as well. So were you kind of seeing some of the same things?

Yes.

Supplements in the market that you weren't happy with? And, you know, what was your sort of vision for this when you guys came together on this product?

So yeah, so when we reconnected, we just, it was so, it was really cool because we both became Christians and then we are both into this health space. And, you know, I actually, I was so thrilled to reconnect with Sherry because I had heard through the rumor mill that she had passed away and I was so devastated and heartbroken. And I, I remembered like just, oh, I could cry like thinking about that. I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. And then I saw her sister on Facebook and that, and I looked to see who she was friends with and realized she's alive. So it must have been that whole when she was going through cancer and stuff. And so how somehow it got spread that she was, you know, had passed. So anyway, I remember the conversation and where I was. I was like sitting down in my closet when Sherry called me because I gave my phone number to her sister. And then Sherry just called me and it was like, oh my gosh. And do you remember that, Sherry?

Yeah.

We were on the phone for like hours just telling everything that would, that transpired over the years. And, you know, cause we had, Greg and I had moved. From where we were living and when we were first married. And then, you know, moved a couple hours or an hour and a half away and since then had moved to another house. So it was, there was no way that she could have tracked me down, you know, not like it is today. You have the same cell phone number for decades, right? Anyway, we were just, we rehashed everything. We just had so much in common and just this health journey and talking about what worked for her, what worked for me. And, you know, we had that bond with collagen too. And I'm like, which one do you use? And, you know, that kind of thing. And so as the years progressed, I'm like, you know, we were talking and it was like, yeah, mine's not working that great anymore. And, you know, that's when Cheryl was like researching a lot into this. She really wanted to develop something with collagen in it. And I'm like, yeah, that is so cool. I would so want to be a part of that. And, you know, we were just getting so frustrated because as a consumer, it's, it's so hard to know what to believe and what to do and what— oh, they're saying take this and they're saying take that. And, and so we just wanted to strip it away, do something simple, something that people could take, and that would, like we keep saying, move the needle. And I don't know what a better terminology than that because it really, for us, it really did. And I know Everybody's different and everybody's going to have a little bit different outcome. But from everybody that we have talked with, and especially now with having the business and we get the feedback, oh, we're just so excited when people email us. So we just love getting the reviews and the responses of like, oh, and this is happening and this is happening. And it's really been an amazing experience for that. We are so passionate about making sure that every I is dotted and T is crossed and that we are just bringing the best of the best to the public. You know, like Cheryl said, our, our families, your families, you know, we all need to be in this together because, you know, the pharmaceutical companies have just led us astray. The FDA with our food sources have led us astray. So it's up to us to come together and educate each other and motivate each other to do the good things because it is a lot easier just to go pick up this fast food or pick up this supplement from the, you know, the pharmacy. And because we don't know any better. So once you start learning and I just love all the people who are like on Instagram that will tell you about the ingredients, right, on packages. Like, don't do the red dye number 40, and don't do the red dye, you know, whatever. And so it's just moms and dads don't know. And so they're feeding these, these organic fruit snacks that have this red dye in it that's causing behavioral issues in children. You know, I, I could get on my soapbox and talk forever about food and what the ingredients are in everything. I'm just so passionate about it because it it really affects our brain and our hormones and our just, you know, our whole body from head to toe. So what we put in our bodies is so important. So again, going back to that, we just wanted to bring a simple product that somebody could use every day that is going to benefit their, their health and And then we coupled it with, with organic coffee. It just kind of fell hand in hand and we're hopeful to bring other things too. But that's, we're in research, like we're not going to compromise unless it can be like exactly what we want and we can develop the way we want it. We just won't, we won't put it on our site just to sell something else. Because people keep asking, like, when are you going to come out with other products? And I'm like, we're going to, but it's just going to take a minute.

So yeah, and before we, I mean, before we wrap up, first of all, I don't know if there's any like little secrets or like one secret thing that's coming soon that you might be able to share or hint at or something like that. We'll come to that at the very end. I was just thinking, so I mentioned at the beginning, because this is like very near and dear to my heart lately, this whole like hair situation, which I have a podcast about. It's like, it's a whole mess. And Just to follow up on that, I'll do a whole show, but I am getting like a full thyroid panel coming up here. And so, long story. But I did mention at the beginning of the show how both of you just have— I mean, I'm like, I guess since I'm overly sensitized to this right at the moment, but lovely, just long, thick-looking hair. And of course, that is one of the things that collagen is so well known for. Um, so can you just share with people— I know you've been taking both been taking collagen for a long time. And I think one of the things that you pointed out, and something that I have been remiss on until probably the last 3 to 6 months, I've been super consistent with, um, a higher amount of collagen every single day. I'd been taking kind of a low amount of collagen maybe for the last 3 or 4 years, but in the last several months since all this really came to a head, I've been very, very, um, religious about taking bigger portion of collagen every single day. So could you just talk a little bit about what you've discovered might be the optimal dosage and maybe how long it took for each of you to really notice a difference? And could you tell maybe more of a difference when you got this higher quality collagen that you started taking? So I just love to hear any commentary around all that.

Yeah, sure. I, you know, well, I personally take 15 grams a day. That's what I do. And you also have to have— you also have to eat whole food vitamin C, which will help optimize your collagen. Like, put lemon— squeeze a lemon in water, which I do every morning as I put lemon or lime in water, you know, first thing when I wake up. Um, ascorbic acid vitamin C doesn't— is not really effective. We could talk for hours about that, you know. And you don't want to put it in your collagen formula either because cause there's a whole nother reason why you don't want to do that. Um, but you do want to have vitamin C, whole food vitamin C in your diet too, to optimize. And you can get that in many, many different types of fruits, like lemon for example. It's— and you don't even have to eat it at the same time. You can have your collagen every morning, just long throughout the day you're having some form of vitamin C will really optimize. The other thing I was going to ask you, you know, if you're having your hair issue now, Cheryl Um, one thing too that I learned personally, and I'll just share it, may not apply to you at all, but if your homocysteine is too high, make sure when you do your blood work, check your thyroid obviously, because hypothyroid can affect your hair, but your homocysteine too, too, because if your homocysteine is too high, that will also affect your hair. So I don't know if you know anything about that, but you know, you might want to make note of that. And when you're working with your doctor, just say, can we check my homocysteine just to see if it's really high? Because if it is, then, um, that will affect your hair too. So that—

well, and it's also really important, you might like this, just to follow up on the homocysteine. Um, did you follow Peter Attia at all? He's a doctor in California. He has a podcast called The Drive. Um, but anyway, he just had a cardiologist on and a neurologist, uh, talking about brain health, and he said literally It's like having a golden ticket in your back pocket that if you're not checking your homocysteine level and your omega-3 status for brain health, that you're just like missing out. He said it's the simplest thing. Just supplement omega-3, make sure your homocysteine is low, and like you're golden. So sorry to interrupt, but that was just like such— he was so adamant about it. And he's so—

no, no, that's fine. I just wrote them down. So The Drive, you said?

Yeah, that's the name of the podcast.

Yeah, and it was— see, I love that. See, that's, that's why we share. Okay, cool. I'm gonna listen to that.

Thank you. I am getting mine checked for sure, so thank you for that.

Please.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because if you do run high in that, you know, it's because I wasn't also assimilating my vitamin B properly, right? So you need to bring that down. So it, you know, so that's I don't know, a lot of people, I guess that M-H-F-T-R gene mutation, 30% of the population have it. You know, a lot of people don't know, you know, so you can figure out there's two different main, main types. You can figure that out too if you don't know. But, um, so the collagen, yeah, for me, I, you know, I maintain between 10 and 15 grams a day. Even on our, like, on our website, on our product page, we have an FAQ on the bottom. It will say, how much collagen should I take? And we break it down in three different categories, like recommendations of, you know, if you are looking to optimize your body to make collagen, you can take like 5 to 10. If you want to maintain your youthful levels as you get older, like 10 to 15. And then, you know, 20 grams plus a day is like if you're trying to repair something, like you got an athletic injury, you're trying to just do a temporary repair. Or, you know, like for me, when I was obliterated, I was killed pretty much with chemo and radiation, you know. 'Cause that was a bummer, 'cause the radiation, it killed my thyroid. So, I have to take thyroid medicine for the rest of my life. I have no thyroid, all because of the radiation. And I probably didn't even need that, was probably overkill to do the radiation. I think the chemo got it, it already pretty much killed me. But, so yeah, so I just maintain 15 grams a day and it really keeps everything nice. My skin, my hair, my joints, especially. You know, I just want to feel good. You know, that's where I come. I want to feel good. I want to feel healthy. I want to feel alert. I want to feel like I have energy, you know. So that's what I care about most. And then, you know, everything else just falls into place when you're taking care of your health to feel good. That makes sense.

Totally.

And Gina, what about you? How much are you taking at this point?

Yeah, I fluctuate because, you know, the gut stuff. And so Cheryl is way more dialed on just not ever having anything bad. I, on the other hand, will have probably a little more grain or— and I'm trying to— she has inspired in me not to, so I'm like trying to really watch it. But so especially for my gut too, you know, but so I will tend to do 15 to 20 a day. Sometimes I'll do a little bit more, especially if I've been working out a little bit more and I'm feeling more achy, you know, in my knees or my elbows. And so I'll take more. But yeah, when I was trying to repair, it's, you know, And it's always good to, when you're starting something new, if you've never done collagen before, obviously we're not doctors, consult your doctor first. But start slowly and then build yourself up. And but I was taking like, I would say, 20 to 40 a day when I really was like trying to, when I realized, oh, this is this is beneficial to my gut. And it— and I think it's helping my bladder too, you know. And there aren't any, um, scientific reports or, or literature on the bladder issue, you know, for healing. I can only just tell you personally what it did for me. And, um, I know that there are more, um, trials out there that they're showing how it is getting in there and healing the gut, especially since collagen is so bioavailable and it gets into our system like in 6 hours and it gets in there and it starts repairing different things. And there's such a big amino acid profile to collagen versus like when you're talking proteins and proteins, animal protein that we eat, we're just not getting that same amino profile as in collagen. And so those different amino acids that are in collagen are so important because we're not eating those things that we did back in the day. We're not eating from snout to tail and we're not eating pig's feet and chicken wings and, you know, getting all that. So, all that to say that we're— you're definitely getting a more nutrient-dense supplement with collagen. So, can you live your life without it? Yeah. But, if you do take collagen, you're, you're getting a more nutrient-dense profile to enrich your overall health, you know. And with that, I feel like our bodies, when you take a supplement that can do so many different things, and so there are all those different amino acids, right, in, in collagen, and our bodies will triage, like they know where, what needs to go where, right. So when you're taking it, it may start to repair something before something else because it, it's the more important thing.

So yeah, it's amazing how— but I'm not a scientist.

It's just my philosophy from taking it for 15 to 17 years, you know? So I noticed certain things first and then started to notice other things. So, yeah, it definitely— and then we went through that period of time where Cheryl used one brand, I was loyal to this other brand. And my gosh, it just doesn't seem like I'm— my collagen isn't as effective. We kind of were chatting about that. And then come to find out, both of those companies were sold out. They were no longer— it wasn't this family-owned company, the one that I was using, and the company that, that Cheryl was buying from. They both are, you know, sold out to different bigger corporations, and the sourcing wasn't there. I couldn't find the documentation that I once had looked into when I first started taking it. Wasn't there, it was no longer on their website. So yeah, unfortunately that happens a lot in the health space.

Yeah, it happens a lot in the health space, and it's good for people to be aware of that, to kind of continually check up on things or make sure that if it's sold or a different company is now running it, to kind of, you know, redo your research, unfortunately. Um, so that— well, that kind of brings us to— you mentioned the name of the company, Yonder. So if we can just close it out here with, um, obviously the name of your website where people can find you. It sounds like you're also both active online, so if you can just share some of your links and, and places that people can get to know you better and to try out the product if they'd like to do that.

Yeah, sure.

Uh, well, yonderfood— no S at the end— .com is our website, and that's our, uh, social media handle too. So @yonderfood for, uh, Instagram. Mostly is where we, we post, uh, and it's, it's all, it goes on Facebook as well. And we have, yeah, and, and we would love, you know, for anyone to, to come and join us. And, you know, I know Gina and I both have a personal, uh, Instagram as well. So we, we love to, you know, interact with other, um, people going down a health journey and answer questions about our products. And, you know, give us, give us a try and join our family. You would love that. If those are types of products that you consume and have any interest, you know, we're here for you to support you. Yeah.

So if you have questions about cancer and radiation or Interfacial Societies, yeah, just reach out. Yeah. We'd love to chat with you.

Yeah, sure.

And all those links will be in the show notes too, of course. So thank you guys, both guys. I hate it when I say that. Thank you ladies so much for joining me today.

Gals.

Gals.

Yeah, something like that. I just— I've tried to get that out of my vernacular just because, you know, the world we live in today, it's good to be precise with your language. But, um, anyway, I just want to thank you both so much for taking the time to do this today. I loved so much learning more about your health journeys and your experience and all your wonderful tips that you've given to people. Um, so thanks so much again, and, um, hope we stay in touch in the future.

Oh, that's great. It was so good.

Thank you, Cheryl. Thank you so much.

It was great meeting you. Yeah.